11 ms·
SparkFun: We Hear You
- seszett 13y agoIt's a bit of a shame that Fluke uses Facebook for publishing official statements. Other than that... well, good reaction from Fluke. I'd say all events, from seizing the multimeters to the resolution today, unfolded in the best way possible.
- lrem 13y agoApart from the part where the law turned out to be so broken to make it happen...
- mindcrime 13y agoIndeed. But given that the law is what it is, this is a fairly good response from Fluke. More than I expected, TBH.
- bfrog 13y agoIts not broken if you consider it protecting the companies of the united states from knock offs. That company that made those multimeters had the full rainbow of colors and an infinite choice of shapes, dials, displays to choose from. They basically decided fluke was great, copied almost everything, sold it cheaper. If it were your product, which was a high quality product, and some cheap knock offs came in with basically everything the same but the label... you would not be happy.
- dTal 13y agoOh come on. Every multimeter I've ever owned was yellow. The Sparkfun multimeters look like every other cheap multimeter, and decidedly unlike Fluke's. It's not even the same damn shade of yellow. This is pointless waste and a huge scandal.
- michael_h 13y agoEvery multimeter I've ever owned was yellow. Fluke is yellow border with a dark gray/black face. Not 'yellow multimeter'.
- joezydeco 13y agoDoes that mean Fluke forfeits the right to try and stop the flow of knockoff products?
- dTal 13y agoDid you miss where I said "The Sparkfun multimeters look like every other cheap multimeter, and decidedly unlike Fluke's"? I reject the premise that any yellow multimeter is a "knockoff product". You can buy similar multimeters in any Radio Shack in the world.
- haptiK 13y agoExplain to me why it's a shame to have used Facebook?
- mixologic 13y agoFacebook isn't the web. Its a siloed private service. A company the size and reputation of Fluke should have their very own website that they can put messages like that on. Otherwise, they're merely giving facebook revenue by having that many more pageview opportunities to show everybody ads.
- jmathai 13y agoYou don't need to be logged in to view the post.
- ubercore 13y agoThis is a great response, as far as I'm concerned. I especially appreciate them explaining why this issue could be more than just "trademark gone awry".
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- sisk 13y agoSummary of events leading to this response: SparkFun has been selling a type of inexpensive digital multimeter since 2008. About two weeks ago, they were informed that a recent shipment of 2,000 units (a $30,000 value) was seized by customs due to a trademark owned by Fluke (granted 2003). Specifically, their units violate Fluke's branding (gray face, yellow border). The Chinese manufacturer won't take them back (prohibitively expensive due to import tax) so SparkFun has to pay to have the units warehoused ($150/day) and—very shortly—destroyed ($150/hour). Moving forward, SparkFun will change their DMMs to be red instead of yellow.
- servowire 13y agoThanks.
- toomuchtodo 13y agoIts important to note that Fluke is required to enforce their trademark or they risk losing it.
- mindslight 13y agoActually no, in fact it's counterproductive. That's a mindless aphorism thrown about to deflect blame from the actual people responsible for decisions, similar to "companies are legally required to maximize profit".
- toomuchtodo 13y agoI get your perspective (after checking your profile). Is Louis CK counterproductive because he doesn't grab a pitchfork and head to Congress to reform copyright law? No. He sells his videos for $5 and asks you nicely not to copy them. Some people try to fix the system. Some people try to do good within the system. Some people do both. Don't shit on someone's parade because you don't feel they didn't do enough, otherwise you alienate your allies.
- skeletonjelly 13y agoHad to look it up myself. Context: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7428799 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7428799
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- johansch 13y agoSo the end result is still an enviromentally unfriendly destruction of 2000 perfectly fine multimeters. Just because they are yellow.
- toomuchtodo 13y agoBaby steps. You can't expect massive changes overnight in such a complex system. Fluke did a solid AND the trademark system is broken; both are news.
- johansch 13y agoA nicer solution could have been: Fluke: "We'll swap your 2000 chinese multimeters with 2000 Fluke multimeters. We will send the non-fluke multimeters to under-funded universities in africa/asia/wherever."
- ryoshu 13y agoThat would still dilute the mark. Fluke had a lot of options and it looks like they took the best one.
- johansch 13y agoDo they really have a trademark for yellow multimeters in e.g. Tanzania?
- EpicEng 13y agoWhy in the world would/should Fluke give away ~$800,000 worth of product (that sparkfun would make a ton of money off of) because someone decided to violate their trademark and paid the price for it? We're talking about 2,000 vastly inferior multimeters here. You may or may not agree with the trademark being issued in the first place, but it was, and I don't blame fluke for wanting to protect their brand. They make a really good product. These things are pieces of garbage in comparison.
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- thaumaturgy 13y agoWow, what an amazing and generous response from Fluke. I can't remember a better response from a company, ever, in a trademark / patent / copyright / licensing dispute. And it's all written in straightforward language without a lot of marketingese.
- fnordfnordfnord 13y agoJack Daniels does it with class too. http://brokenpianoforpresident.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/jd-letter-entire-big1.jpg http://brokenpianoforpresident.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/j...
- poulsbohemian 13y agoThanks for sharing that - I have a new respect for Jack Daniels after seeing how respectfully they handled that. A model of how these types of issues should be worked out.
- RankingMember 13y agoWow, now that's something you rarely see in legal correspondence: respectful, even-keeled explanation over "I'm going to hit you with this tersely-worded hammer if you don't comply" legalese.
- IgorPartola 13y agoThat's fantastic. I bet you this cost everyone less money then litigation. The only way they could have made this better is if they sent the author a bottle too. I have come to believe that there are contracts and there are intentions behind the contracts. A person or a company can sign a contract, and have no plans to fulfill it and at the same time a person or a company can fulfill a promise without signing any contract. While contracts are a necessary evil, the real question is what does the other party intend to do.
- jbenz 13y agoFor the record, Jack Daniels sent us a Cease & Desist recently and it was not nearly as nice as this one. It was your standard "stop doing this or we will take action" C&D. (We had parody t-shirt designs in our user gallery.) A letter like this would've been easier to swallow.
- mindslight 13y agoSo then, nothing to be done about the needless destruction of the shipment of meters by customs? As Sparkfun said, Fluke could easily issue a temporary license to prevent that draconian waste. If they think those meters are actually going to dilute their brand (hint: they really aren't), then make the importation license require Sparkfun to rework the meters domestically before distributing them.
- vailripper 13y agoWhy wouldn't they dilute their brand? They've built up a reputation of building a high end product. If someone begins selling a product that looks nearly identical to their own, that's of inferior quality, how does that not affect their own reputation?
- mindslight 13y agoBecause professional engineers choose test equipment based on functionality, and color schemes fall pretty low on the list. (yeah, this may be hard to believe if you have a primarily software background)
- EpicEng 13y agoSparkfun isn't a site for professional engineers, it's a site for hobbiests. Professional engineers typically don't buy shoddy gear which can end up blowing their arm off.
- mindslight 13y agoSo we agree!
- bsder 13y agoProfessional engineers aren't the only people buying multimeters. Lots of people who work as electricians and wiring techs also buy multimeters, and many of them do buy by brand which is, conveniently, color scheme.
- bronson 13y agoJust when I thought I couldn't love Fluke any more. Impressive products, impressive company. I'm going to be reloading the "Fluke" search on Sparkfun until something shows up in the products section...
- imroot 13y agoI'm impressed that Fluke took these steps to go above and beyond what I expected them to do in this situation. This was written in a very neutral tone without marketing spin.
- stevenkovar 13y agoIt would be interesting to see SparkFun introduce their products with their own red color to brand hobbyist equipment as its own segment—compliment Fluke's reliance on color to connote the primary qualities of the brand. Red = accessible, versatile hobbyist equipment Yellow = rugged, reliable industrial equipment Great response from Fluke nonetheless.
- pmorici 13y agoWell Fluke sells meters with a red color scheme too so... http://www.fluke.com/fluke/tten/Digital-Multimeters/Specialty-Multimeters/Fluke-28-II-Ex-Intrinsically-Safe-True-rms-Digital-Multimeter.htm?PID=74148 http://www.fluke.com/fluke/tten/Digital-Multimeters/Specialt...
- sitkack 13y agoLet this be a lesson on damage control. If you can do something like this, you should. They have nipped a kerfuffle in the bud.
- AjithAntony 13y agoOoh, Maybe we'll get a chance to buy a Fluke from Sparkfun for $15 (or less)
- DannyBee 13y agoOne slight error. Fluke says: "It’s important to know that once we’ve filed for and received trademark protection, US Customs has the responsibility to determine what to stop at the border, or what to seize. In this case, we first learned of this issue from SparkFun’s blog." This is only kinda correct. It's theoretically true. However, these particular items were stopped due to an ITC order, that resulted from action taken by Fluke (though not deliberately against sparkfun). See http://www.usitc.gov/publications/337/pub4210.pdf http://www.usitc.gov/publications/337/pub4210.pdf This is US ITC exclusion order 337-TA-588, which is referenced in the letter customs sent to sparkfun. This was another case where they complained about the color of some multimeters. Had this action not been taken, there is a zero percent chance customs would have done anything to sparkfun. Sadly, it's not possible to tell what the items in this order looked like for sure , because although there are "full color photographs" attached as exhibits, for some reason they scanned it in black and white ;) (The last part of the statement, about them not knowing, is almost certainly true)
- nickbauman 13y agoInstead of destroying them, why not paint them so as not to waste them?
- astrodust 13y agoShould really send them back and get a new housing made.
- pmorici 13y agoIt's kind of silly that you can trademark a color like that. Maybe Sparkfun should have Fluke's red meters stopped at the border because they are red, the color associated with the Sparkfun brand. It probably doesn't make business sense for them to do that though. http://www.fluke.com/fluke/tten/Digital-Multimeters/Specialty-Multimeters/Fluke-28-II-Ex-Intrinsically-Safe-True-rms-Digital-Multimeter.htm?PID=74148 http://www.fluke.com/fluke/tten/Digital-Multimeters/Specialt... Fluke's entry level meter is $130 on Amazon maybe they should make a less expensive model for Sparkfun to sell to the makers.
- olefoo 13y agoIt's not a patent. It is a trademark, or trade dress registration. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_dress http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_dress If you make agricultural equipment and paint it a bright green and yellow; John Deere will come after you because at least some people might get the impression that you are at the least trying to take advantage of their reputation.
- pmorici 13y agoThat's my point, Sparkfun's trademark is red packaging and PCB's. Fluke makes a red meter Spark fun should ask them to stop selling that meter because people might confuse it with a Sparkfun product.
- forgotAgain 13y agoGood products and a good PR department as well. Most companies don't have either.
- aray 13y agoGiven that Fluke multimeters cost about 10x what the destroyed ones are, sparkfun is still out $30k to replace the shipment + destruction fees, and now have probably 200 fluke units to try to recoup some costs with.
- georgemcbay 13y agoWhile this is true, Fluke's response could have easily been "eat a bag of dicks, Sparkfun" and their actual response is quite a bit more friendly than that. I think there is still blame to go around here but more on US Customs than Fluke, particularly since the Sparkfun multimeter color isn't really that close to the "Fluke yellow". It would be nice if there were some simple (via some arbiter, not the slow legal system) ability to appeal such decisions prior to exportation or destruction of all the stock.
- vacri 13y agoThe yellows look pretty similar fluke multimeter: http://www.rigoloscilloscope.com.au/upload/pro/2010111106244537.jpg http://www.rigoloscilloscope.com.au/upload/pro/2010111106244... sparkfun multimeter: https://cdn.sparkfun.com/assets/home_page_posts/1/4/2/8/DMM_Yellow.png https://cdn.sparkfun.com/assets/home_page_posts/1/4/2/8/DMM_...
- georgemcbay 13y agoI've got a sparkfun multimeter and have used lots of fluke gear and the color is quite different looking at them in person. Sparkfun's color is closer to the orange of Tenma gear (though lighter) than it is to the yellow of Fluke's gear, which is unmistakably yellow.
- davesque 13y agoAm I the only one that is finding their response to be unsatisfactory? Let me translate it for everyone: "Hey, we realize how much it sucks that your merchandise was seized and will now be destroyed. As far as that goes, well...too bad. _However_, we'll allow you just this once to distribute our own merchandise and spread awareness of our brand name for us." Is this really a fair deal? Does SparkFun really want to be under Fluke's thumb and promote Fluke's brand at the expense of promoting their own? In addition to that, they still have a monopoly on the color yellow in their market. How is this an admirable move by Fluke?
- jessaustin 13y ago"Admirable" in a very narrow sense, perhaps: they've snowed both Sparkfun and the general public, and have strengthened a dubious trademark to boot.
- rch 13y agoAgreed. There's nothing wrong with a company wanting to run damage control in this situation, but the level of praise here seems out of sync.
- tripzilch 13y agoI'd call it "clever", but not "admirable".
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- eyeareque 13y agoCan't they just make a (maybe 3d printed) stencil, and then spray paint the devices a different color? Sure, it could rightfully add 3-4 dollars of cost to each device, but it makes more sense than just destroying them.
- damian2000 13y agoIf SparkFun had decided to drop ship those same multimeters to their end-customers directly out of China (or wherever they are sourced from), via mail, would customs have seized each individual multimeter? I think not.
- bananas 13y agoActually I've had stuff imported from HK that was seized at EU border as in single items. It does happen. In this case a single rip off Rotring 600 clone from AliExpress.
- quarterwave 13y agoImagine how much money would have been spent if this had to go to court to achieve the same result: we'll let you go this time, but in future please pay more attention to product design/appearance.
- TerraHertz 13y agoSuperficially it may seem like a generous response from Fluke. But you can bet that if there wasn't such a backlash against their action of lodging a complaint with US Customs, they would not have done this. Also I think they were already suffering serious commercial and image harm, which they realized would only get worse. So really, it's self-preservation, not generosity. Generosity would be to accept that 'yellow body, dark face' is not something they should try to own, or be able to own. If they cancel their ridiculous Mark registration, then I might believe Fluke had developed an actual soul, instead of mere corporate image loss/benefit calculation.
- davesque 13y agoYep, exactly. Furthermore, SparkFun gets dubious "privilege" of being a Fluke distributor for a day. "Don't worry SparkFun. We'll let you give out some of _our_ product as compensation. Oh, that doesn't really help _your_ business in the long run? Jeeze, sorry I guess..." I'm a little disappointed in the Hacker News crowd on this one. It doesn't seem like anyone's thinking this through.
- alexjv89 13y agoWow ...
- kubiiii 13y agoMetrix multimeter usually are blue. I can think of at least another quality multimeter brand that use the yellow/dark grey. What if red was not even an option to make cheap multimeter and if all the colors were covered by patents?
- smoyer 13y agoYou really have to wonder why a vendor of "precision test equipment" would want to protect a trademark of the word "fluke"[1]. Wouldn't you rather your measurements were "consistent"? [1] http://www.thefreedictionary.com/fluke http://www.thefreedictionary.com/fluke - definition #3
- gvb 13y agoThe company name wasn't a fluke, John Fluke named it after himself. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluke_Corporation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluke_Corporation
- urza 13y agoThis is ridiculous. How can you trademark yellow color? America is crazy. All these patents, copyrights, trademarks and other form of memes monopolization are only slowing down cultural evolution to the disadvantage for all of us. The cultural evolution work similarly as biological. If yellow color is good for users, let is spread. Then some company will most likely add small tweak that will turn into yet another benefit and better product. The society benefits. Whereas in current system only one company benefits. That is wrong because patents etc were made to benefit the society, not some greedy companies.