4 ms·

So we have a plane that flew to another destination without communication and several people with bogus passports on board. Familymembers have reported cellphon

So we have a plane that flew to another destination without communication and several people with bogus passports on board. Familymembers have reported cellphones that kept 'rining' instead of going directly to voicemail (as they would have if the plane was at rhe bottom of the ocean). Hijacking looks to me the only reasonable explenation.

sitkack 13y ago
Annnd, why aren't we reading about cell logs of every IMSI of every passenger on board. Isn't this baby stuff? Continually ringing doesn't mean the phone is still on a network.
- mschuster91 13y ago
  Because the "cell" is the microcell generated by the plane's internal GSM/sat uplink... which has no GPS attached and cannot really be traced.
  - lucaspiller 13y ago
    Even if there is no GPS, it should still be possible to tell whether a number is registered/active on the network. When a phone connects to a network (including roaming) it's location is stored in the operator's HLR (home location register) where it is used to route calls. I'd assume it stores the time the phone was last seen as well.
- jonah 13y ago
  Continuously ringing means the network still thinks the phone's on the network. When you power down your phone it sends a signal to the network saying it's going off. If you just pull the battery or something else where it doesn't send that signal, the network still assumes (maybe only for a time) that the phone is still on but isn't connected to a tower.
  - eklavya 13y ago
    But the ringing only starts once the target phone responds to the paging from network, otherwise the network just keeps on searching and after a timeout informs that the target phone is unreachable or out of coverage area.
    - mikeash 13y ago
      That's not true. There are cases (e.g. if the phone was last registered on an overseas network because the person was traveling internationally) where the network will generate a "ring" while still searching for the phone.
United857 13y ago
It's possible in some cases for phones to "ring" even if they're off/disconnected, as the tone is generated by the network, not the device itself.
- agildehaus 13y ago
  In my experience the network won't ring if it hasn't seen the device in a certain time period. "Straight to voicemail" for that. I'm no expert though, maybe rings are still possible. But if the network is seeing these phones, it seems to me it'd be pretty simple locate these people by just querying the provider for the tower location. This hasn't happened, so the only conclusion is all the phones were destroyed, disabled, or out of range.
  - hueving 13y ago
    >In my experience the network won't ring if it hasn't seen the device in a certain time period. "Straight to voicemail" for that. I'm no expert though, maybe rings are still possible. You are correct, rings are still possible regardless of the state of the phone connection.
  - mikeash 13y ago
    Multiple people who know what they're talking about have confirmed that you don't get the "straight to voicemail" behavior if the phone was last registered on a roaming network rather than its home network. As would be the case for e.g. every single Chinese cell phone that was last turned on in Malaysia.
- ekianjo 13y ago
  I don't know how networks work in your country or where this accident occured, but in Japan when your phone is off, and you try to call it, it does not ring and indeed goes to voicemail directly.
  - Crito 13y ago
    Instead of turning your phone off, so that it can inform the network that it is going off line, try pulling the battery without warning. If I turn off my phone gracefully, the network will send incoming calls pretty much straight to voicemail. If my phones battery has died, or the phone dropped off the network for another reason (went camping?), then the network will have your phone ring as it searches for the phone.
haldujai 13y ago
This statement has to die. It has been confirmed over and over again that the phones aren't on and this is a network thing. Do you really think that if this plane was hijacked the phones would be kept on especially in light of the Snowden/NSA leaks? Tracking cell phones has been common for over a decade now, I'm sure a hijacker would be aware of this and would toss the cell phones into the ocean.
- emeidi 13y ago
  Like in opening the door at flight level 295 and throwing out a bag full of mobile phones?
lucaspiller 13y ago
Article: http://the-tap.blogspot.com/2014/03/mh370-passengers-phones-ring-and.html http://the-tap.blogspot.com/2014/03/mh370-passengers-phones-...
infinii 13y ago
So after 5 days, the hijackers are allowing all the hostages to charge their phones?
- TillE 13y ago
  I don't think this is remotely plausible, but remember that dumbphones can last well over a week between charges.
  - kalleboo 13y ago
    Or smartphones too for that matter if you have data turned off (which you would if you were, say, one of 200 Chinese tourists who had just been in Malaysia for vacation)

sitkack 13y ago

Annnd, why aren't we reading about cell logs of every IMSI of every passenger on board. Isn't this baby stuff? Continually ringing doesn't mean the phone is still on a network.

mschuster91 13y ago
Because the "cell" is the microcell generated by the plane's internal GSM/sat uplink... which has no GPS attached and cannot really be traced.
- lucaspiller 13y ago
  Even if there is no GPS, it should still be possible to tell whether a number is registered/active on the network. When a phone connects to a network (including roaming) it's location is stored in the operator's HLR (home location register) where it is used to route calls. I'd assume it stores the time the phone was last seen as well.
jonah 13y ago
Continuously ringing means the network still thinks the phone's on the network. When you power down your phone it sends a signal to the network saying it's going off. If you just pull the battery or something else where it doesn't send that signal, the network still assumes (maybe only for a time) that the phone is still on but isn't connected to a tower.
- eklavya 13y ago
  But the ringing only starts once the target phone responds to the paging from network, otherwise the network just keeps on searching and after a timeout informs that the target phone is unreachable or out of coverage area.
  - mikeash 13y ago
    That's not true. There are cases (e.g. if the phone was last registered on an overseas network because the person was traveling internationally) where the network will generate a "ring" while still searching for the phone.

United857 13y ago

It's possible in some cases for phones to "ring" even if they're off/disconnected, as the tone is generated by the network, not the device itself.

agildehaus 13y ago
In my experience the network won't ring if it hasn't seen the device in a certain time period. "Straight to voicemail" for that. I'm no expert though, maybe rings are still possible. But if the network is seeing these phones, it seems to me it'd be pretty simple locate these people by just querying the provider for the tower location. This hasn't happened, so the only conclusion is all the phones were destroyed, disabled, or out of range.
- hueving 13y ago
  >In my experience the network won't ring if it hasn't seen the device in a certain time period. "Straight to voicemail" for that. I'm no expert though, maybe rings are still possible. You are correct, rings are still possible regardless of the state of the phone connection.
- mikeash 13y ago
  Multiple people who know what they're talking about have confirmed that you don't get the "straight to voicemail" behavior if the phone was last registered on a roaming network rather than its home network. As would be the case for e.g. every single Chinese cell phone that was last turned on in Malaysia.
ekianjo 13y ago
I don't know how networks work in your country or where this accident occured, but in Japan when your phone is off, and you try to call it, it does not ring and indeed goes to voicemail directly.
- Crito 13y ago
  Instead of turning your phone off, so that it can inform the network that it is going off line, try pulling the battery without warning. If I turn off my phone gracefully, the network will send incoming calls pretty much straight to voicemail. If my phones battery has died, or the phone dropped off the network for another reason (went camping?), then the network will have your phone ring as it searches for the phone.

haldujai 13y ago

This statement has to die. It has been confirmed over and over again that the phones aren't on and this is a network thing. Do you really think that if this plane was hijacked the phones would be kept on especially in light of the Snowden/NSA leaks? Tracking cell phones has been common for over a decade now, I'm sure a hijacker would be aware of this and would toss the cell phones into the ocean.

emeidi 13y ago
Like in opening the door at flight level 295 and throwing out a bag full of mobile phones?

lucaspiller 13y ago

Article: http://the-tap.blogspot.com/2014/03/mh370-passengers-phones-ring-and.html http://the-tap.blogspot.com/2014/03/mh370-passengers-phones-...

infinii 13y ago

So after 5 days, the hijackers are allowing all the hostages to charge their phones?

TillE 13y ago
I don't think this is remotely plausible, but remember that dumbphones can last well over a week between charges.
- kalleboo 13y ago
  Or smartphones too for that matter if you have data turned off (which you would if you were, say, one of 200 Chinese tourists who had just been in Malaysia for vacation)