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As a long term developer of entertainment software, I totally agree with his point of view about the impact one's software has upon the lives of the user. The g

As a long term developer of entertainment software, I totally agree with his point of view about the impact one's software has upon the lives of the user. The general acceptance goes that the crazies and depressed will be triggered by something and its not your fault if something provocative you worked on triggers an incident. That's what the group think tells us, but in ones personal reality it's not that easy to shrug off. Over the decades I've been on the teams of high profile games and films with medium levels of violence. After each title is released, I'd receive a half dozen or so "fan" emails from people who obviously researched the dev team and was reaching out. On the games with medium levels of violence, of the half dozen fan emails only one would be praise, the others would be serious hate mail. That kind of stuff throws you, even if you suspect pretty strongly that the sender is probably 8 years old. Yeah, I can totally see why he pulled the plug. He's got enough momey, and he's not greedy. What he want's most is clearly freedom, and fame was taking that away. Yeah, I'd pull the plug too.

conesus 13y ago
To be fair, I run a news reader and you wouldn't believe some of the hate mail I receive. I just assumed he received much more of it and not enough of the positive mail. Also, when you're at the business end of a press blitz, you get overwhelmed and can make irrational decisions that you might come to regret.
- robflynn 13y ago
  It was the same for me when I was project lead for Gaim/Pidgin. I was lead for something like 6 years and I eventually got tired of the hate. Sure, there was plenty of praise, too. But the harassment eventually became annoying. It hit it's breaking point when someone folks managed to figure out my cell phone number and would call me at all sorts of hours (3am once!) to "tell me about their ideas." I changed my cell number but it eventually happened again. Most of my interactions with users were positive, though. But, the various legal issues, hateful folks, and my day job suddenly taking more time I decided to give it up and pass it on to someone else. I had already become mostly observational/maintenance on the project in my last year there anyways. Slight digressions aside, I was fairly young when I got with the project and it was surprisingly to me how angry some people could be for no reason at all.
  - georgiecasey 13y ago
    Big difference is you weren't being paid! I had a free and ad-free app on Android and I got some abuse about missing features. I took it down after a while. The sense of entitlement was unreal. Now if I was making $50k a day, I'd take all the abuse that could have been thrown at me!
    - grey-area 13y ago
      Imagine that abuse and entitlement scaled up by 10000, would you still want the money?
      - sergiotapia 13y ago
        Yes. I can stuff my ears with wads of $100 bills to cancel the noise from peasants.
        judk 13y ago
        Or just hire someone to sort your mail.
    - georgiecasey 13y ago
      yes. it's only the internet, not like people roaring it in the street.
      - NamTaf 13y ago
        Actually it was the media and others showing up at his house, as per the article.
  - NPC82 13y ago
    Pidgin/gaim fan here - thank you. I think I started using it just before the time of the name change and it's had an enormously positive impact on my life. That might sound silly but it was one of the few Linux programs I knew how to install and configure at the time.
hnriot 13y ago
I totally disagree with his point of view. He could simply sell the game to an established company that is already set up to handle the responsibilities that come with running a business. Throwing away $50k/day is just a stupid thing to do.
- TsomArp 13y ago
  agreed.
- dasil003 13y ago
  So what if it's stupid? We know how much damage greed does to the world. The world would be a better place if more people stood up for principles over money.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
  - obstacle1 13y ago
    The problem there is that there's no universal set of principles that are right or good. For example "don't leave money on the table" or "make as much money as possible" could easily be a principle someone adopts. In such a case, she would be standing up for her principles by maximizing her acquisition of money at the expense of other things.
    - dasil003 13y ago
      I don't need a universal set of principles that are good because such a thing is impossible. The entire world of human thought is a subjective abstraction. This need for objectivity is a common failing of the scientific mind, and it is a struggle in vain as our brains are far too puny to truly comprehend the nature of things—we must deal in abstractions, and abstractions as, any programmer knows, are leaky.
    - aestra 13y ago
      And people who put wealth and money before everything else are generally seen as assholes or even evil. Example: The asbestos industry officials knew of asbestos dangers of asbestos since the 1930s and had purposefully concealed them from the public. To make money.
stcredzero 13y ago
That's what the group think tells us, but in ones personal reality it's not that easy to shrug off. The Internet not only has increased the range of hateful groupthink, it has made a large number of people believe that it is somehow noble and elevated. It almost seems like there's an anti-intelligentsia of forum manipulators who see the creation of new and pointless forms of prejudice as a kind of sport. I have the growing impression that there's a growing segment of people online who see their outrage and any acts motivated by it as the expression of some kind of enlightened vigilante justice. It just so happens that the worst crimes against humanity were motivated by people who thought just like that. Unfortunately, it's the single best way to blind yourself against your own evil deeds while making it likely you'll get trapped into irrevocable courses of action.
- specialist 13y ago
  made a large number of people believe that it is somehow noble and elevated. People haven't changed. There have always been trolls, malcontents, crazies. Attend any public hearing, ask any fan club or newspaper mail room. As a new medium, the distinction of the web is significantly lowered transaction costs. No different from email spammers.
  - stcredzero 13y ago
    People haven't changed. There have always been trolls, malcontents, crazies. Attend any public hearing, ask any fan club or newspaper mail room. Yes, but now the seductive idea that one can improve the world by getting one's teenage hormonal aggression out on somebody "who deserves it" is beamed into people's living rooms and onto devices in their pocket, complete with calls to action. How many teenagers do you know who realize how morally bankrupt this is, vs the number of teenagers who are actively enthusiastic about some idea like this? And, how many people do you know who are past their teens who still haven't "gotten it" yet?
    - fit2rule 13y ago
      Sorry but haven't you just become what you resist? Who are these 'bad teenagers' and why do they need to be punished?
antirez 13y ago
To be fair, seen from outside, this seems something strange and, in my opinion, not good about the American culture: there is always somebody to blame for your problem, a reason why you are acting in a given way, an external cause if you suffer a medical problem, eat too much, put all the kind of pills in your body, and so forth. Probably this is representative only of a minority, but from the outside this looks like a vocal minority, and even a very small minority, if can feel offended, or addicted, or something else because of your work, can easily turn your work into a nightmare. Now the thing is: it is not true. You, with your work, are not forcing anyone. We live in a world full of possibilities, the problem here is, to be able to critically analyze what you do, otherwise there is no thing that can save you, you'll misuse even the simpler things to cause yourself some kind of problems. There is more, even controversial things have some very good impact on the life of people making judicious use of those things. Example: a violent game can be a way to express violence of an otherwise repressed person, or some other people that is having a few bad weeks, is finding an escape playing at it. Similarly alcool, that if abused can be bad, addicting, and destroy people, is the joy of many people having a glass of wine from time to time, and so forth. Most of the times the problem is not the tool but the user.
- jusben1369 13y ago
  Why do you think this is a US specific issue?
  - chris-martin 13y ago
    Someone in Vietnam released software to the world, therefore this is a story about American culture. That's just how Americans think. It's also necessarily about modern American culture, even if you know absolutely nothing about the past.
    - mattlutze 13y ago
      Rolling Stone isn't going to run an article about the impact of Flappy Bird on culture in Tazmania or Greece; while it would be tangentially interesting, the subject's incredibly small proximity to the life of the average reader of the American version of Rolling Stone means it won't have the same impact. Not a "just how Americans think" issue, a "what is relevant to our readers' lives" issue.
bennyg 13y ago
I created a fairly successful app that aimed to give users the best drink specials in my college town. I honestly can't bring myself to work on it anymore because I feel morally reprehensible and somewhat socially responsible for binge drinking when alcohol is such a dangerous substance. Who's not going to over-drink when well drinks are $0.25 a pop, nobody makes a ton of expendable income in college, and my app prominently puts that special in front of 3000 sets of eyeballs? I just don't feel like I'm adding goodness to the world - I feel like I'm subtracting it.
- NamTaf 13y ago
  For what it's worth, Australia's been a pretty good case study on how significantly increased (+70%) taxes - and therefore, prices - for alcohol did not deter binge drinking [1]. All it did was shift the consumption from one form to another, as well as decrease drinking between binges. In that sense, you could arguably say that you're not materially increasing the prevalence of binge drinking but really just saving the money of those who are inevitably going to do it. Then again, binge drinking here is baked in to the cultural psyche. It may still be seen as more dangerous and therefore less socially acceptable in the States. [1]: http://www.uq.edu.au/news/article/2013/06/alcopops-tax-fails-cut-binge-drinking-young-people http://www.uq.edu.au/news/article/2013/06/alcopops-tax-fails...
  - bennyg 13y ago
    Yeah, I've read tons of statistics from both sides of the debate, and still feel a little morally wrong for it. I did add taxi calling directly from the app to 7 different local taxi companies to help assuage some of my perceived guilt. The taxi page does see visits in my analytics though, so that's good if nothing else.
  - aestra 13y ago
    >It may still be seen as more dangerous and therefore less socially acceptable in the States. Binge drinking is completely socially acceptable in the States.
    - 13y ago

conesus 13y ago

To be fair, I run a news reader and you wouldn't believe some of the hate mail I receive. I just assumed he received much more of it and not enough of the positive mail. Also, when you're at the business end of a press blitz, you get overwhelmed and can make irrational decisions that you might come to regret.

robflynn 13y ago
It was the same for me when I was project lead for Gaim/Pidgin. I was lead for something like 6 years and I eventually got tired of the hate. Sure, there was plenty of praise, too. But the harassment eventually became annoying. It hit it's breaking point when someone folks managed to figure out my cell phone number and would call me at all sorts of hours (3am once!) to "tell me about their ideas." I changed my cell number but it eventually happened again. Most of my interactions with users were positive, though. But, the various legal issues, hateful folks, and my day job suddenly taking more time I decided to give it up and pass it on to someone else. I had already become mostly observational/maintenance on the project in my last year there anyways. Slight digressions aside, I was fairly young when I got with the project and it was surprisingly to me how angry some people could be for no reason at all.
- georgiecasey 13y ago
  Big difference is you weren't being paid! I had a free and ad-free app on Android and I got some abuse about missing features. I took it down after a while. The sense of entitlement was unreal. Now if I was making $50k a day, I'd take all the abuse that could have been thrown at me!
  - grey-area 13y ago
    Imagine that abuse and entitlement scaled up by 10000, would you still want the money?
    - sergiotapia 13y ago
      Yes. I can stuff my ears with wads of $100 bills to cancel the noise from peasants.
      - judk 13y ago
        Or just hire someone to sort your mail.
  - georgiecasey 13y ago
    yes. it's only the internet, not like people roaring it in the street.
    - NamTaf 13y ago
      Actually it was the media and others showing up at his house, as per the article.
- NPC82 13y ago
  Pidgin/gaim fan here - thank you. I think I started using it just before the time of the name change and it's had an enormously positive impact on my life. That might sound silly but it was one of the few Linux programs I knew how to install and configure at the time.

hnriot 13y ago

I totally disagree with his point of view. He could simply sell the game to an established company that is already set up to handle the responsibilities that come with running a business. Throwing away $50k/day is just a stupid thing to do.

TsomArp 13y ago
agreed.
dasil003 13y ago
So what if it's stupid? We know how much damage greed does to the world. The world would be a better place if more people stood up for principles over money.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- obstacle1 13y ago
  The problem there is that there's no universal set of principles that are right or good. For example "don't leave money on the table" or "make as much money as possible" could easily be a principle someone adopts. In such a case, she would be standing up for her principles by maximizing her acquisition of money at the expense of other things.
  - dasil003 13y ago
    I don't need a universal set of principles that are good because such a thing is impossible. The entire world of human thought is a subjective abstraction. This need for objectivity is a common failing of the scientific mind, and it is a struggle in vain as our brains are far too puny to truly comprehend the nature of things—we must deal in abstractions, and abstractions as, any programmer knows, are leaky.
  - aestra 13y ago
    And people who put wealth and money before everything else are generally seen as assholes or even evil. Example: The asbestos industry officials knew of asbestos dangers of asbestos since the 1930s and had purposefully concealed them from the public. To make money.

stcredzero 13y ago

That's what the group think tells us, but in ones personal reality it's not that easy to shrug off. The Internet not only has increased the range of hateful groupthink, it has made a large number of people believe that it is somehow noble and elevated. It almost seems like there's an anti-intelligentsia of forum manipulators who see the creation of new and pointless forms of prejudice as a kind of sport. I have the growing impression that there's a growing segment of people online who see their outrage and any acts motivated by it as the expression of some kind of enlightened vigilante justice. It just so happens that the worst crimes against humanity were motivated by people who thought just like that. Unfortunately, it's the single best way to blind yourself against your own evil deeds while making it likely you'll get trapped into irrevocable courses of action.

specialist 13y ago
made a large number of people believe that it is somehow noble and elevated. People haven't changed. There have always been trolls, malcontents, crazies. Attend any public hearing, ask any fan club or newspaper mail room. As a new medium, the distinction of the web is significantly lowered transaction costs. No different from email spammers.
- stcredzero 13y ago
  People haven't changed. There have always been trolls, malcontents, crazies. Attend any public hearing, ask any fan club or newspaper mail room. Yes, but now the seductive idea that one can improve the world by getting one's teenage hormonal aggression out on somebody "who deserves it" is beamed into people's living rooms and onto devices in their pocket, complete with calls to action. How many teenagers do you know who realize how morally bankrupt this is, vs the number of teenagers who are actively enthusiastic about some idea like this? And, how many people do you know who are past their teens who still haven't "gotten it" yet?
  - fit2rule 13y ago
    Sorry but haven't you just become what you resist? Who are these 'bad teenagers' and why do they need to be punished?

antirez 13y ago

To be fair, seen from outside, this seems something strange and, in my opinion, not good about the American culture: there is always somebody to blame for your problem, a reason why you are acting in a given way, an external cause if you suffer a medical problem, eat too much, put all the kind of pills in your body, and so forth. Probably this is representative only of a minority, but from the outside this looks like a vocal minority, and even a very small minority, if can feel offended, or addicted, or something else because of your work, can easily turn your work into a nightmare. Now the thing is: it is not true. You, with your work, are not forcing anyone. We live in a world full of possibilities, the problem here is, to be able to critically analyze what you do, otherwise there is no thing that can save you, you'll misuse even the simpler things to cause yourself some kind of problems. There is more, even controversial things have some very good impact on the life of people making judicious use of those things. Example: a violent game can be a way to express violence of an otherwise repressed person, or some other people that is having a few bad weeks, is finding an escape playing at it. Similarly alcool, that if abused can be bad, addicting, and destroy people, is the joy of many people having a glass of wine from time to time, and so forth. Most of the times the problem is not the tool but the user.

jusben1369 13y ago
Why do you think this is a US specific issue?
- chris-martin 13y ago
  Someone in Vietnam released software to the world, therefore this is a story about American culture. That's just how Americans think. It's also necessarily about modern American culture, even if you know absolutely nothing about the past.
  - mattlutze 13y ago
    Rolling Stone isn't going to run an article about the impact of Flappy Bird on culture in Tazmania or Greece; while it would be tangentially interesting, the subject's incredibly small proximity to the life of the average reader of the American version of Rolling Stone means it won't have the same impact. Not a "just how Americans think" issue, a "what is relevant to our readers' lives" issue.

bennyg 13y ago

I created a fairly successful app that aimed to give users the best drink specials in my college town. I honestly can't bring myself to work on it anymore because I feel morally reprehensible and somewhat socially responsible for binge drinking when alcohol is such a dangerous substance. Who's not going to over-drink when well drinks are $0.25 a pop, nobody makes a ton of expendable income in college, and my app prominently puts that special in front of 3000 sets of eyeballs? I just don't feel like I'm adding goodness to the world - I feel like I'm subtracting it.

NamTaf 13y ago
For what it's worth, Australia's been a pretty good case study on how significantly increased (+70%) taxes - and therefore, prices - for alcohol did not deter binge drinking [1]. All it did was shift the consumption from one form to another, as well as decrease drinking between binges. In that sense, you could arguably say that you're not materially increasing the prevalence of binge drinking but really just saving the money of those who are inevitably going to do it. Then again, binge drinking here is baked in to the cultural psyche. It may still be seen as more dangerous and therefore less socially acceptable in the States. [1]: http://www.uq.edu.au/news/article/2013/06/alcopops-tax-fails-cut-binge-drinking-young-people http://www.uq.edu.au/news/article/2013/06/alcopops-tax-fails...
- bennyg 13y ago
  Yeah, I've read tons of statistics from both sides of the debate, and still feel a little morally wrong for it. I did add taxi calling directly from the app to 7 different local taxi companies to help assuage some of my perceived guilt. The taxi page does see visits in my analytics though, so that's good if nothing else.
- aestra 13y ago
  >It may still be seen as more dangerous and therefore less socially acceptable in the States. Binge drinking is completely socially acceptable in the States.
  - 13y ago