5 ms·
$19B later, Facebook now wants to own my phone
- eyeface 13y agoEverything else aside, what caught my eye was "Change network connectivity, connect and disconnect from WiFi." That seems bizarre.
- jewel 13y agohttps://www.facebook.com/help/facebookwifi https://www.facebook.com/help/facebookwifi maybe?
- Zikes 13y agoI'm several versions behind on updating my Facebook app, because every update brings a litany of new unnecessary permissions. For a brief period Android offered the ability to selectively disable permissions on apps after the fact, but that feature was removed. I'll probably soon be switching to an alternative ROM that still supports it.
- drcross 13y agoI just use the web page now for the same reason, the high precision GPS request was way too much information to give out. The effect is that I use facebook less when I'm out and about which is also a positive.
- nakedrobot2 13y agohttps://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.danvelazco.fbwrapper https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.danvelazco... Tinfoil for facebook. Basically it is a big condom for facebook so it does not stick its bejeezus inside your private babushka. Or something like that ;-)
- ars 13y ago> For a brief period Android offered the ability to selectively disable permissions on apps after the fact Install this https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=biz.bokhorst.xprivacy.installer https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=biz.bokhorst.x... for fine grained control.
- unfunco 13y agoThis is the real problem. iOS asks you when an app tries to do something which involves potentially sensitive information being revealed – I find myself uninstalling apps frequently on my Nexus because an update is asking for new permissions, and I've read the comments about fine-grained controls, but I don't want to install an app to allow me to have granular permission controls over other apps – I should not have to do that.
- glasshead969 13y agoI think Google should improve the way apps can ask access to these things. just telling us whats going to be used is not enough IMO, in fact i see this kind of dialog so many times and just tap through. I should be given option to restrict access after the fact if i see it fit.
- stackcollision 13y agoWhat really drives me crazy is how people are still surprised by this kind of thing. I stopped using Facebook four years ago, and I think it was one of the smartest decisions I've made. I value my privacy. There is so much complaining online about how Facebook is taking over everything, yet there is no action. If you have a problem with it, then don't use the service!
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- taariqlewis 13y agoI think Facebook has done a good job helping people enjoy the habit of denying the importance of privacy in favor for a free service. I don't think many realize what they've sacrificed because they value it so little.
- f_salmon 13y ago> Facebook has done a good job helping people enjoy the habit of denying the importance of privacy Well, that's what they make money off. It's their strategy/mission to eliminate privacy. On the other hand, 24% of consumers currently seem to be OK with the fact that the NSA controls their iPhone: http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2013/12/30/the-nsa-reportedly-has-total-access-to-your-iphone/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2013/12/30/the-nsa-repo...
- tool 13y ago> I don't think many realize what they've sacrificed because they value it so little. Exactly. Also, most people don't tend to question authority figures. That's what facebook has become for web 2.0 or whatever you want to call it, it's the thing that got most people to use internet actively as a part of their everyday lives.
- atmosx 13y agoIt's not that. It's risks vs benefits and most people (I'm only speaking for the technically informed minority) weight the two and find out that at this point in time, the benefits are outweigh the risks. Having a facebook account puts you in contact with your peers. Virtually everyone. It can be a huge social boost if used correctly (politeness, some language moderation, etc.), imagine how difficult would be for newcomers in town to socialize without using social media. Students that go away for Erasmus, etc. Facebook offers an incredibly valuable service. What exactly will the NSA, Facebook or Google do with the user's data and how this entire privacy breach will actually play out in the future, no ones knows. Mind you that people actually like sharing their data with their peers and being part of a community such as this one. Theoretically I can scrap all your posts run them through a "text analysis software" to extract data about your personality. So you're exposed anyway, the moment you put two words together online. Most people don't realize the threat because everything is at virtual level yet. Only a few got bullied after online stalking. Once this group becomes a majority, things will change.
- doesnt_know 13y agoThe problem is this doesn't even matter to the average user. They've been so ingrained to just automatically accept these messages (EULA's, "warnings" etc) that they have become meaningless. Even if you do get the odd person that actually cares, the question becomes "do I care enough to stop using this app". The answer is almost certainly no. If you actually cared about your privacy, you probably would have stopped using Facebook half a decade ago.
- smacktoward 13y agoIt doesn't help that (on Android at least) the control of permissions is so granular. I understand the desire to give users very fine control over their privacy, but the end result is that updates present you with a loooong list of permissions changes, and we all know that the longer a list gets the more likely it becomes that the user's eyes will just glaze over and they'll reflexively hit OK. This is exacerbated by the fact that all the permissions requests are presented in the same way -- same font, same size, same color -- despite the fact that not all permissions requests are created equal. If an app wants to be able to talk to the network, that's a minor privacy concern. If an app wants to be able to read my address book, say, or my emails or SMSes, those are major privacy concerns. Those are the ones you want the user paying attention to and thinking about. The way the requests are presented should reflect that.
- hellbanTHIS 13y agoIsn't Facebook correctly assuming that if you use it you're okay with your life being an open book? They've never attempted to hide it and everyone who's uncomfortable with that has moved on, or at least using it very conservatively. So who exactly has a problem with this?
- stephengillie 13y agoJust who are these people who have secrets? Which people depend on the ignorance of the people around them to live their lives? Are you afraid your wife might learn about your mistress? Are you afraid your business partners (bosses, coworkers, corporate contacts, government regulators) might learn about your communicable diseases? Are you afraid your religious associates might learn about your immoral activity? Are you afraid your children might learn about your illegal smuggling operations? Are you afraid your Amish friends might learn of your technology company?
- freehunter 13y agoThe question wasn't "who needs to keep a secret", but rather "who is depending on Facebook to keep their secrets?" It's a valid point, the media has blared long enough that Facebook can't be trusted with secrets. If someone doesn't know that by now, they haven't done the due diligence that should be reasonably expected of anyone communicating online.
- aeturnum 13y agoAre you telling facebook any of this? Why would you? Are there instances of facebook (or anyone else) notifying wives of mistresses? It seems much more likely that making a wall post to your mistress with the wrong account is the new call on the family cell phone, which was the new letter to the wrong address of its day.
- stephengillie 13y agoI want to have the per-permission denial back. I used to be able to deny some permissions while allowing other for an individual app. Here, I could turn off the app's permissions to access SMS messages and control WiFi without disabling its internet access or camera permissions. This would cause some apps would crash, true, but at least I can control that and work with it. It was removed from Cyanogenmod around 7.0.
- eigenvector 13y agoIf you have root, you can install this functionality with AppOps X. https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.colortiger.appopsinstaller https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.colortiger...
- RexRollman 13y agoIf he has root? I thought the selling point of Android is that it is open. Certainly people don't still have to jump through hoops to root their devices?
- ars 13y agoYou still have to do it though, it doesn't come that way by default. But you don't have to crack it first.
- dTal 13y agoIn the vast majority of cases, yes you do. I had to use an exploit to root my phone. When I lost it and insurance got me an identical phone, there had been a firmware update that patched the hole. Didn't update anything else, still the same outdated version of Android, I just couldn't root it. I still haven't been able to. It drives me mad.
- dTal 13y agoNope. The "selling point" of Android is that it's free (as in no licensing costs). Carriers are still free to lock it down, and of course they do, complete with bootloader lock. Personally I think bootloader locks on general-purpose computing hardware should be made outright illegal, regardless of whether the company would like to sell it as an "appliance".
- z5h 13y agoJust use m.facebook.com from your browser.
- dcustodio 13y agoyes! And at least in my phone it's faster than the mobile app.
- steerj92 13y agoThis is utterly ridiculous
- specialp 13y agoThe whole reason why Whatsapp is majorly successful is that it was the exact opposite of what Facebook is. People could download it, and then their address book was integrated. No ads, no mining your information, no signup. It was not successful due to viral marketing or integration with an all knowing social network.
- slig 13y agoAlso, the people that matter in my life is in my phone book and vice-versa. Not hundreds of people that I don't see in ages. Almost no clutter and no managing.
- notastartup 13y agoI think when I made the decision to stop using Facebook was when I created a new account and realized how empty the actual value proposition was when you were starting fresh. I then realized that people on facebook I actually would've never met or even hang out or even actively talk or like. People that matter are people that have my phone number and skype and can meet me directly. After this epiphany, I deleted my facebook, I no longer saw any value in having a few hundred "friends" on a website that intrinsically offers no value without the underlying participants, whom I valued to be close to zero, as they were not within reach in real life. I found skype offered all the tools I needed. I downloaded whatsapp only to be hit with the same feeling I got from Facebook, these were merely tools acting as social buffering mechanism for digital interaction but SMS already serves this purpose well and voice conversation or meeting in person solves a far better value. Twitter, I'm also thinking of retiring. Instagram? Selfies? Things don't change and that is human relationships, being on any of these platforms is a self fulfilling prophecies.
- jokoon 13y agowhat saddens me is that when facebook was getting popular I thought "oh cool a nerd like me might get laid thanks to a social network". Wrong. I can't remember the year I stopped using it, but I hope it dies, and quick.
- skybrian 13y agoIf you don't want to quit Facebook, using it on desktop only in a separate Chrome profile seems like a reasonable way to isolate it.
- spinchange 13y agoThere's always the mobile site on the phone/tablet instead of the apps and all the permissions they require.
- lukeschlather 13y agoWhat's funny is that they're concerned by the additional permissions Facebook is asking for. Facebook's app already has full access to contact info, which they 'accidentally' used to wipe out everyone's email contacts. I think after that debacle Facebook would have to literally wiretap the mic/camera to actually sink any lower. Personally, I still use Facebook, but I use a dedicated private browsing window on my computer and Tinfoil on my phone: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.danvelazco.fbwrapper https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.danvelazco...
- adamwong246 13y agoSeems Facebook is drawing inward to what they are really good at: letting people communicate. They tried to be everything to everybody and suprise! they alienated and aggravated their users with spam. If Facebook doesn't focus on doing at least one thing well, the bubble will burst.
- lost_name 13y agoDidn't we just go over the SMS thing? Jan 2014: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7135219 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7135219 Feb 2012: http://www.businessinsider.com/facebook-might-be-reading-your-texts-2012-2 http://www.businessinsider.com/facebook-might-be-reading-you...
- ENGNR 13y agoYou don't have to stop using Facebook, just use the HTML version instead of the app. I switched after the email debacle and it's been great, never looked back.
- jonknee 13y agoI don't use Facebook or WhatsApp, but what's with the calendar integration? How does WhatsApp use your calendar?
- dba7dba 13y agoI think Facebook started adding permission to read texts BEFORE WhatsApp purchase. Or were they preparing before purchase of WhatsApp? Either way, when I first heard about Facebook reading my texts few months ago, I just deleted Facebook app from my android. Keeps me from wasting time reading facebook posts on my phone also... Thanks Facebook for helping me save save time.
- ksrm 13y agoBought a Nokia N900 last week and running Debian on it. Once you do a few tweaks to fix the battery life and performance, it's brilliant. How sad is it though, that despite being almost five years old, it's still one of the most open, hackable phones around. Switching from Android to the N900 felt like what switching from Windows to Linux felt like - like I have maximum control over the device, with the freedom to modify anything (relatively) easily.
- francip 13y agoHi, I work at Facebook, more specifically, I've spent a considerable chunk of my time working on our Android app and the Android permissions we request. (I also worked on that same area before I joined Facebook) These permissions were actually added several months ago, long before the WhatsApp deal was announced. There's no connection. I want to correct some of the misrepresentations in the article. The WRITE_CALENDAR permission: As many app developers will know, this permission is needed by any application that wants to create a calendar feed in the unified Android calendar storage, and create/modify events in it. In particular, the Facebook app would like to give you the option to import your Facebook events so that you can see them side-by-side with your other calendars like Google Calendar, corporate Exchange accounts and so on. We don't need to be able to send event invites or updates to attendees by email, but we can't divide the pre-set Android permission into any smaller pieces. We use the READ_SMS permission to automatically read SMS codes from people who have turned on 2-factor authentication (called Login Approvals) for their accounts, or for phone confirmation messages when you add a phone number to your Facebook account. Unfortunately, the Android permissions system doesn't allow us to specify that we would like to be able to read only SMS messages from a specific number—the one we use to send these codes. In general, we would love to be able to ask only for the permissions we need for the specific features we expect people to use. However, Android doesn't allow permission requests on demand; we have to request all permissions that cover each feature at install time, and people must choose to accept or deny all of them at once. If you have specific questions about other permissions that our app requires, don't hesitate to ask, and I'll do my best to explain how they're used. We also have an official Help Center page that covers a lot of this material at https://www.facebook.com/help/210676372433246 https://www.facebook.com/help/210676372433246.
- jasonjayr 13y agoWhy do you need to read the SMS as it comes in? Why can't you implement 2 factor authentication w/o a SMS via TOTP, using something like Google Authenticator? On all my accounts that I've been able to, I've turned on this "Virtual Token" based authentication, it's no great burden to enter a 6-digit number from my device to the screen when needed. Setting it up is a breeze as well, simply scan a qrcode off the screen. FB is a big company with a lot of smart people. This approach must have been considered and then dismissed by at least one of your developers. Why the huge push to confirm and maintain a phone # connection to the service?