6 ms·

Steve Ballmer calls Apple's Mac growth a "rounding error"

21 points by terpua 17y ago

JeremyChase 17y ago
I think it is easy to think this way if you don't operate in many circles. Around MS and with Ballmer's associates, I am sure that there are very few Apple products around. But go into any Starbucks in NYC and you'll probably see more Mac's than PC's.
- krschultz 17y ago
  I was up in Detroit recently and it was jarring to see all GM, Chrysler and Ford cars on the road compared to my home state. I guess it is not surprising, but the lack of Honda/Toyota/Nissan/Mazda/BMW/Mercedes cars up there might be part of the reason why the big 3 don't get it.
- jbronn 17y ago
  Exactly. Ballmer obviously hasn't been on a college campus in the past few years. I personally saw the percentage of Mac laptops go from ~5% to ~40% from 2005 to 2008 in my classes. The ratio goes even higher if you go to any scientific/technical conference.
  - slackerIII 17y ago
    You say that like it is his job to speak the truth and accurately describe the world.
  - prodigal_erik 17y ago
    College students and conference attendees are spending someone else's money, which is why price is no object.
- jimbokun 17y ago
  Did anyone read the article? 'Ballmer noted the large number of Apple machines in the crowd as he spoke, saying the Windows maker has a "low share" in the investor audience. "I can see the Apple logos versus the PC logos," Ballmer told the crowd. "So we have more work to do, more work to do. Our share is lower in this audience than the average audience. But don't hide it. I've already counted them. I have been doing that since we started talking."' Sorry to single you out with this reply, because there are a few posts suggesting Ballmer does not realize that there are places, professions, and industries where Macs are prominent. This quote shows that Ballmer is more than aware of this fact.
socratees 17y ago
Is it really about market share? The cool one is the one who innovates, the one who changes market landscapes. Apple does that. Microsoft doesn't. Microsoft shouldn't worry about gaining the rest 10% of the OS share. They should worry about why they aren't innovative.
- jherdman 17y ago
  Agreed. My thoughts were more or less along the lines of developer mind-share. Though MS has some interesting things, the vast majority of developers producing the cool things are leaving MS in their past. OS X and Linux, on the other hand, _are_ gaining traction -- if not accelerating -- with respect to developer mind-share.
- zaidf 17y ago
  Is it really about market share? Yes. Getting market share means you've a product that lots of people want and you've figured out a way to get it to them. Just because Microsoft does not fit in your narrow definition of innovation does not mean that they are not innovative. The cool one is the one who innovates Yes, but the cool one is not usually the most successful business. If anything, Apple's learned that over its history. For the longest time it innovated great cool things that Microsoft would copy and sell it better while after the innovation phase, Apple would crumble. Since the iPod things have been looking up but geez, Apple has a longtime to go before it can compare itself to Microsoft. Talking about innovation, don't even get me going about Apple's treatment of developers versus Microsoft's. Hint: innovation is a lot more than building cool technology in your secret lab.
  - mikeryan 17y ago
    Where this gets sticky is in defining the Market your stake is in. Microsoft obviously competes in the entire PC market but its fairly obvious that Apple is really only taking on the high end. This way both win, Apple owns the over $1000 market and Microsoft wins the overall share. Its just investor spin.
  - deleted 17y ago
    [deleted]
mdasen 17y ago
This wasn't a smart thing to say. Apple's growth is real. While it may not be a threat to Microsoft's profits, calling it a rounding error just seems out of touch with reality. If anything, Microsoft should play up two things. First, that they believe their products offer a superior value, choice, and flexibility when compared with Apple's as their "laptop hunters" commercials portray. That counts for a lot. Second, that Apple's health shows that competition is alive and well in the computing market which will drive all parties to produce the best products they can. Saying that Apple's growth isn't real simply comes off as out of touch with reality. It makes it seem like you don't know the market well enough to see the obvious and, if that's true, how can you steer your company to success? Similarly, if Apple were to simply dismiss Microsoft's "laptop hunter" commercials as not connecting with people, they'd similarly be out of touch. Both offerings have strengths and weaknesses. Pretending that isn't true might win you points with fanboys, but makes you seem out of touch to the 90% who aren't die-hards on either side and try to buy what's best for them. The key is getting across the point that your product has continued value, not that someone else's product doesn't have value. Windows is powering more computers than ever today as the market expands. Windows provides a low-cost (compared to Apple) operating system that maintains a high level of compatibility that businesses demand. Similarly Apple should stress that they offer an elegant, integrated experience with greater interoperability than ever. Fanning flame wars as an executive just seems immature.
- grellas 17y ago
  Ultimate in hubris: IBM regarding Wintel [Edit: PC] offering as a "toy" circa 1984. This seems to be in that same spirit. Apple's Standard Oil model of business (fanatical control of every aspect of its products) has given it certain major engineering advantages but has limited its desktop share to that of a strong high-end niche - great for connoisseurs and for those on the cutting edge, less appealing to those who need to solve immediate business problems with cost-effective solutions. It was a seismic shift ala first-time-ever mass computing that blind-sided IBM and caused it to lose hegemony in the enterprise market. That could happen today as well (though not from the Mac itself, which will remain a high-end niche product), and I would suspect that Microsoft is not nearly as sanguine in the back room about the threats to its dominance as it lets on. Agreed it is not wise to put on an arrogant face about it.
jcw 17y ago
Yet again, Ballmer is either mad about something or saying something inflammatory. Why not just save yourself the frustration of arguing and ignore him altogether?
- vijayr 17y ago
  For some reason, Ballmer's statements remind me of Sarah Palin's statements
  - blasdel 17y ago
    To be fair, he speaks in english sentences ((with the occasional chant), not Palin's constant word salad
    - jimbokun 17y ago
      Not word salad, but brilliant free verse poetry. http://mashable.com/2009/07/29/shatner-palin-conan/ http://mashable.com/2009/07/29/shatner-palin-conan/
Alex3917 17y ago
Summary: The infidels are falling at the gates of our operating system.
halo 17y ago
Microsoft paint Apple as expensive, elitist and irrelevant. Apple paint Microsoft as unfashionable, unoriginal, and unreliable. This has been going on for years, this isn't news. Who cares?
joezydeco 17y ago
Microsoft missed revenue estimates by a billion dollars in the fourth quarter. I guess that's a rounding error for them too.
- zaidf 17y ago
  Anyone know how historically significant that billion dollar figure is? Meaning, how is that relative to other tech companies missing their estimates in the recession?
  - mikeryan 17y ago
    Significant in regards to what? At this point the recession is a fairly known quantity and should be factored in to estimates - its not a very solid excuse any more. Google and Apple topped estimates for the quarter I believe
    - zaidf 17y ago
      Google and Apple topped estimates for the quarter I believe Cool. That's exactly what I wanted to know.
yread 17y ago
Microsoft needs a strong Apple so that they don't get buggered by those pesky anti-monopoly fees
sriramk 17y ago
[Disclaimer: I work at Microsoft but on cloud stuff not on anything Mac vs Windows related. This is not officially endorsed by Microsoft, just my personal opinion, etc, etc] One small clarification.The 'rounding error' he was talking about was the change in share. I know this since I was a few feet away doing manning a booth for my team :) http://www.microsoft.com/msft/speech/FY09/BallmerFAM2009.mspx http://www.microsoft.com/msft/speech/FY09/BallmerFAM2009.msp... has the entire speech. Grep the page for the quote - it appears deep in and is just a couple of lines.
- rawr 17y ago
  This is not a "small" clarification. The headline is completely misleading - thank you for calling this out.
TweedHeads 17y ago
Since January 2000 when he became CEO of M$, the stock went from $60 to $20 the first year, then flatlined for the next decade. Ballmer is the only problem in M$, the worst CEO ever, and I will be very happy the day he steps down.
- TweedHeads 17y ago
  Btw, AAPL went from $80 to $160 in just a quarter. I guess Ballmer is banging his head against a monitor showing a Win7 screensaver for missing that opportunity to double his wealth.

21 points by terpua 17y ago

I think it is easy to think this way if you don't operate in many circles. Around MS and with Ballmer's associates, I am sure that there are very few Apple products around. But go into any Starbucks in NYC and you'll probably see more Mac's than PC's.

krschultz 17y ago
I was up in Detroit recently and it was jarring to see all GM, Chrysler and Ford cars on the road compared to my home state. I guess it is not surprising, but the lack of Honda/Toyota/Nissan/Mazda/BMW/Mercedes cars up there might be part of the reason why the big 3 don't get it.
jbronn 17y ago
Exactly. Ballmer obviously hasn't been on a college campus in the past few years. I personally saw the percentage of Mac laptops go from ~5% to ~40% from 2005 to 2008 in my classes. The ratio goes even higher if you go to any scientific/technical conference.
- slackerIII 17y ago
  You say that like it is his job to speak the truth and accurately describe the world.
- prodigal_erik 17y ago
  College students and conference attendees are spending someone else's money, which is why price is no object.
jimbokun 17y ago
Did anyone read the article? 'Ballmer noted the large number of Apple machines in the crowd as he spoke, saying the Windows maker has a "low share" in the investor audience. "I can see the Apple logos versus the PC logos," Ballmer told the crowd. "So we have more work to do, more work to do. Our share is lower in this audience than the average audience. But don't hide it. I've already counted them. I have been doing that since we started talking."' Sorry to single you out with this reply, because there are a few posts suggesting Ballmer does not realize that there are places, professions, and industries where Macs are prominent. This quote shows that Ballmer is more than aware of this fact.

socratees 17y ago

Is it really about market share? The cool one is the one who innovates, the one who changes market landscapes. Apple does that. Microsoft doesn't. Microsoft shouldn't worry about gaining the rest 10% of the OS share. They should worry about why they aren't innovative.

jherdman 17y ago
Agreed. My thoughts were more or less along the lines of developer mind-share. Though MS has some interesting things, the vast majority of developers producing the cool things are leaving MS in their past. OS X and Linux, on the other hand, _are_ gaining traction -- if not accelerating -- with respect to developer mind-share.
zaidf 17y ago
Is it really about market share? Yes. Getting market share means you've a product that lots of people want and you've figured out a way to get it to them. Just because Microsoft does not fit in your narrow definition of innovation does not mean that they are not innovative. The cool one is the one who innovates Yes, but the cool one is not usually the most successful business. If anything, Apple's learned that over its history. For the longest time it innovated great cool things that Microsoft would copy and sell it better while after the innovation phase, Apple would crumble. Since the iPod things have been looking up but geez, Apple has a longtime to go before it can compare itself to Microsoft. Talking about innovation, don't even get me going about Apple's treatment of developers versus Microsoft's. Hint: innovation is a lot more than building cool technology in your secret lab.
- mikeryan 17y ago
  Where this gets sticky is in defining the Market your stake is in. Microsoft obviously competes in the entire PC market but its fairly obvious that Apple is really only taking on the high end. This way both win, Apple owns the over $1000 market and Microsoft wins the overall share. Its just investor spin.
- deleted 17y ago
  [deleted]

mdasen 17y ago

This wasn't a smart thing to say. Apple's growth is real. While it may not be a threat to Microsoft's profits, calling it a rounding error just seems out of touch with reality. If anything, Microsoft should play up two things. First, that they believe their products offer a superior value, choice, and flexibility when compared with Apple's as their "laptop hunters" commercials portray. That counts for a lot. Second, that Apple's health shows that competition is alive and well in the computing market which will drive all parties to produce the best products they can. Saying that Apple's growth isn't real simply comes off as out of touch with reality. It makes it seem like you don't know the market well enough to see the obvious and, if that's true, how can you steer your company to success? Similarly, if Apple were to simply dismiss Microsoft's "laptop hunter" commercials as not connecting with people, they'd similarly be out of touch. Both offerings have strengths and weaknesses. Pretending that isn't true might win you points with fanboys, but makes you seem out of touch to the 90% who aren't die-hards on either side and try to buy what's best for them. The key is getting across the point that your product has continued value, not that someone else's product doesn't have value. Windows is powering more computers than ever today as the market expands. Windows provides a low-cost (compared to Apple) operating system that maintains a high level of compatibility that businesses demand. Similarly Apple should stress that they offer an elegant, integrated experience with greater interoperability than ever. Fanning flame wars as an executive just seems immature.

grellas 17y ago
Ultimate in hubris: IBM regarding Wintel [Edit: PC] offering as a "toy" circa 1984. This seems to be in that same spirit. Apple's Standard Oil model of business (fanatical control of every aspect of its products) has given it certain major engineering advantages but has limited its desktop share to that of a strong high-end niche - great for connoisseurs and for those on the cutting edge, less appealing to those who need to solve immediate business problems with cost-effective solutions. It was a seismic shift ala first-time-ever mass computing that blind-sided IBM and caused it to lose hegemony in the enterprise market. That could happen today as well (though not from the Mac itself, which will remain a high-end niche product), and I would suspect that Microsoft is not nearly as sanguine in the back room about the threats to its dominance as it lets on. Agreed it is not wise to put on an arrogant face about it.

jcw 17y ago

Yet again, Ballmer is either mad about something or saying something inflammatory. Why not just save yourself the frustration of arguing and ignore him altogether?

vijayr 17y ago
For some reason, Ballmer's statements remind me of Sarah Palin's statements
- blasdel 17y ago
  To be fair, he speaks in english sentences ((with the occasional chant), not Palin's constant word salad
  - jimbokun 17y ago
    Not word salad, but brilliant free verse poetry. http://mashable.com/2009/07/29/shatner-palin-conan/ http://mashable.com/2009/07/29/shatner-palin-conan/

Alex3917 17y ago

Summary: The infidels are falling at the gates of our operating system.

halo 17y ago

Microsoft paint Apple as expensive, elitist and irrelevant. Apple paint Microsoft as unfashionable, unoriginal, and unreliable. This has been going on for years, this isn't news. Who cares?

joezydeco 17y ago

Microsoft missed revenue estimates by a billion dollars in the fourth quarter. I guess that's a rounding error for them too.

zaidf 17y ago
Anyone know how historically significant that billion dollar figure is? Meaning, how is that relative to other tech companies missing their estimates in the recession?
- mikeryan 17y ago
  Significant in regards to what? At this point the recession is a fairly known quantity and should be factored in to estimates - its not a very solid excuse any more. Google and Apple topped estimates for the quarter I believe
  - zaidf 17y ago
    Google and Apple topped estimates for the quarter I believe Cool. That's exactly what I wanted to know.

yread 17y ago

Microsoft needs a strong Apple so that they don't get buggered by those pesky anti-monopoly fees

sriramk 17y ago

[Disclaimer: I work at Microsoft but on cloud stuff not on anything Mac vs Windows related. This is not officially endorsed by Microsoft, just my personal opinion, etc, etc] One small clarification.The 'rounding error' he was talking about was the change in share. I know this since I was a few feet away doing manning a booth for my team :) http://www.microsoft.com/msft/speech/FY09/BallmerFAM2009.mspx http://www.microsoft.com/msft/speech/FY09/BallmerFAM2009.msp... has the entire speech. Grep the page for the quote - it appears deep in and is just a couple of lines.

rawr 17y ago
This is not a "small" clarification. The headline is completely misleading - thank you for calling this out.

TweedHeads 17y ago

Since January 2000 when he became CEO of M$, the stock went from $60 to $20 the first year, then flatlined for the next decade. Ballmer is the only problem in M$, the worst CEO ever, and I will be very happy the day he steps down.

TweedHeads 17y ago
Btw, AAPL went from $80 to $160 in just a quarter. I guess Ballmer is banging his head against a monitor showing a Win7 screensaver for missing that opportunity to double his wealth.