10 ms·

The Trouble with the Segway

221 points by mqt 17y ago

jamesb43 17y ago
The best thing the Segway has contributed to society are the antics of Will Arnett's character, Gob, on Arrested Development. He showed just how dorky the Segway really is.
ivankirigin 17y ago
Dean Kamen has got to be one of the most arrogant engineers in the world (though obviously really talented too). You can't bring up why Seqway's were retarded without mentioning that personality. I might also point out that the reason they failed so spectacularly was a ridiculous level of hype. "Revolutionize transportation" just doesn't fit a reconfigured motorized bicycle. Having aggressively ridden one while towing a rollerblader with a bungee cord, I can say for sure the most successful marketing would have been as an entertainment and recreational vehicle. Then they'd be like ATVs, but permissible in urban areas. Also, you wouldn't compare the price to a bicycle (10X) but to an ATV (0.5X depending)
- thedjpetersen 17y ago
  Him and Wolfram seem to have a lot in common...
  - TriinT 17y ago
    Except that Kamen has achieved something, while Wolfram has not achieved much. Kamen created new technology that helps people. What has Wolfram achieved in the last 30 years?
    - yan 17y ago
      What?! You don't consider Mathematica a technology that helps people?
      - TriinT 17y ago
        Well, I don't use Mathematica, so it does not help me. There are other computer algebra systems out there. There are substitutes. By contrast, Kamen created medical devices that help save lives (e.g., dialysis systems, insulin pumps, etc). I love software, but some problems can't be solved with software alone... Though Wolfram started Mathematica, he has not been actively contributing to it for many years. So, while Mathematica has helped many mathematicians, the kudos go to Wolfram AND his programmers. As much as Wolfram loves to project the image of the lone-wolf genius (and fail to give credit to other people), the truth is that Mathematica is a huge team effort these days. So, imagine that Mathematica had not been created. Mathematicians would be using other computer algebra systems. If Kamen had not invented his stuff, people would have died. They're playing entirely different games. Sure, Wolfram was a teenage genius that got his PhD in particle physics at Caltech at age 21 or so... but he needs to invent cold fusion (or something huge like that) to attain the fame and notoriety his ego demands.
    - jodrellblank 17y ago
      "What has Wolfram achieved in the last 30 years?" A new kind of science
      - TriinT 17y ago
        ANKOS is neither new nor Science...
        blasdel 17y ago
        ...nor Wolfram
    - TriinT 17y ago
      Keep downvoting. I would appreciate if someone had the balls to stand up and say what is it that Wolfram has achieved. OK, he has a cool software company, but for a guy who wanted to revolutionize Physics, that's a meager accomplishment. I can think of tens of Caltech alumni who accomplished much more than Wolfram, but who are less inclined to publicize themselves. Some examples: - Arnold Beckman: invented the pH meter, founded Beckman Instruments, and funded tons of great research. Has two buildings at Caltech named after him. - Linus Pauling: revolutionized Chemistry, Biochemistry and Molecular Biology. Won 2 Nobel prizes. - Charles Townes: invented the maser, won the Nobel prize. - Bill Shockley: co-invented the transistor, won the Nobel prize. - Donald Knuth: invented TeX, wrote TAOCP. - Gordon Moore: founded Intel, started the microprocessor revolution, changed the world. - Irving Reed: made important contributions to the field of error-correcting codes. - Carver Mead: revolutionized electronics, founded tons of companies. He's one of the greatest technologists of the last 50 years, and yet few people know of him. - Bill Gross: started IdeaLab and founded tons of cool startups. So.. what is it that Wolfram has achieved? His papers on Cellular Automata are cute, but not earth-shattering. ANKOS is a recreational book with more artistic value than scientific value. Mathematica is great, but we could do well without it as there are tons of other CAS'es out there. Alpha is still hype. For someone of such high intellectual caliber, Wolfram has not accomplished much indeed. Feel free to downvote. Or, if you actually have anything insightful to say, go ahead and destroy my argument.
- amelim 17y ago
  Dean may be arrogant, but I find it hard to fault him when his foundation of the FIRST robotics league for high schoolers has impacted my life so significantly. I participated in the 2006 year with my high school as a senior and now I'm working at a major commercial and government robotics company. His outreach to students through the FIRST organization is one of the best science technology activities for teenagers.
  - asmithmd1 17y ago
    I am also a big fan of FIRST but think he has the problem of having had success early in life and therefore doesn't know his limitations. Take a look at the FIRST logo for instance - it sucks. And the name, FIRST robot competition, makes it difficult to explain to someone and impossible to brand: "What do you mean first robot competition, I have been hearing about robot competitions for years." The Segway is a classic engineering failure, a solution in search of a problem. They developed the iBOT wheelchair: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBOT http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBOT and where looking for a way to sell a commercial version. I think the quote "medical device styling" is right on. If, instead of using his usual industrial design firm, he had given this to IDEO and had them pump out 20 different versions they might have had something.
  - ivankirigin 17y ago
    Kamen isn't the only one involved in FIRST, by far. It's a symptom of the personality that you would react like that.
    - amelim 17y ago
      Perhaps. He's not the only person involved with FIRST (probably not even the most important), and my praise has more to do with the actual event than the person. Honestly, when it comes down to it, I could care less about someone's personality. It's more about their actual achievements (of which he's had both hits and misses).
  - lyime 17y ago
    +1 I am also a big fan of FIRST.
adamhowell 17y ago
I've used the Segway example before when arguing with people against stealth startups. The big reveal just isn't worth the potential downside. Expecially with something like the Segway, where they needed buy-in from local government to let the things on the sidewalks. But, yeah, North Dumpling Island is all you need to know about the wackiness that is Dean Kamen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Dumpling_Island http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Dumpling_Island and http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/12/08/dean-kamens-led-nation/ http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/12/08/dean-kamens-led-nat...)
ohlol 17y ago
I disagree with the assertion that the reason people dislike Segways is because they make the rider look smug. I think it's because the people you see riding them ARE dorks. It's more of a guilt by association issue than anything.
- robg 17y ago
  I'm with pg. Take the recent movie with the mall cop. I only saw the trailer (I swear!) but a cop in uniform, even the rental version, isn't really dorky. But put him on a Segway and hilarity ensues! Another thought experiment: 1) Cop on a horse 2) Cop on a motorcycle 3) Cop on a mountain bike 4) Cop on a Segway I've ordered them, I think, from toughest to dorkiest. Maybe you could swap the horse and motorcycle (though horses are huge). But is there any doubt the Segway is in last place and by far?
  - ohlol 17y ago
    Mmm, I think rental/mall cops are plenty dorky. They don't have guns, or for that matter any other tools to subdue perps, do they? That makes them pretty harmless in my eyes. Have you seen the Segway tours? http://bit.ly/4J4yJ http://bit.ly/4J4yJ Throw some dubs or spinnas on those bad boys, and they'd still look like dorks. edit- But I do agree with your list. Horses > motorcycles, for sure.
    - robg 17y ago
      I think it's the mall as context. Is a security guard at a dark warehouse dorky? They're not especially cool, but I don't get negative thoughts. That Segway tour pic is pretty funny. It may be the helmets and manpurses, but funny still the same.
    - shpxnvz 17y ago
      Throw some dubs or spinnas on those bad boys, and they'd still look like dorks. Funny, personally I think that cars with spinners and huge rims looks quite a bit more dorky then Segways. The big difference between the two is that the Segway never had a sufficiently counter-cultural fan base, and therefore had exactly the wrong sort of exclusivity.
philwelch 17y ago
Try this thought experiment and it becomes clear: imagine something that worked like the Segway, but that you rode with one foot in front of the other, like a skateboard. That wouldn't seem nearly as uncool. So there may be a way to capture more of the market Segway hoped to reach: make a version that doesn't look so easy for the rider. It would also be helpful if the styling was in the tradition of skateboards or bicycles rather than medical devices." There's such a thing as an "electric skateboard", Randall Munroe (creator of xkcd) is fond of them.
- deleted 17y ago
  [deleted]
quellhorst 17y ago
The trouble with the segway is that is isn't better than a bicycle. The 12.5 mph top speed of the segway feels slow to me when I'm on my bike. My range on a bike is also further than the segway and it also makes me healthier. What the segway needs is to be made faster, you must go faster than 25 mph and it needs to compete better against bicycles and scooters.
- deleted 17y ago
  [deleted]
rewind 17y ago
All I can think of now when I hear someone reference the Segwey is Woz playing Segwey polo on one. If that doesn't say dorky, I don't know what does.
- jodrellblank 17y ago
  The Segway features in Weird Al Yankovic's "White and Nerdy", lumped into the same category as doing vector calculus for fun, fluency in Klingon and wearing a pocket protector... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbVtbc_XzrI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbVtbc_XzrI
maxharris 17y ago
I have a Segway (a black i2). I'm sure that people think I'm a dork, but that doesn't bother me. It's fun to ride, and it gets me to class on time, unlike the bus. Graham's comments are dead-on, but don't let that stop you from getting one if you want. What other people think (especially the average man on the street) doesn't matter as long as you don't want anything from them.
- andreyf 17y ago
  Yeah, that's not how most people work. Whether we admit it or not, we want people to like us even if we'll never see them again.
  - grandalf 17y ago
    may be true, but if you are so sensitive that you care if someone thinks you are a dork for riding a segway then you deserve to walk.
    - jonknee 17y ago
      Fashion is a multi billion dollar industry--people care greatly about how they look. You may not, but you are the outlier.
      - grandalf 17y ago
        It is just signaling, not design. The segway does emit a strong signal, which is why its design is hated... Few people hate or love the design of the ford taurus, for example. And, few would call it great design or horrible design. It emits a weak signal. I'd argue that if kamen changed the segway design it would just appeal to a different set of people, it wouldn't really be better. There is nothing wrong with the design. It is simple and without stupid frills.
    - unalone 17y ago
      It's not sensitive, it's intelligent. Fashion is a matter of presenting yourself in ways that display your best attributes. It's design that applies to the self. Why are we allowed to critique a web site for having small type and a shitty font and bad colors, but we can't criticize people with poor fashion sense? They're one and the same. The fact that fashion is subject to marketing doesn't make it inherently worthless. For once I can't disagree with a thing Paul said in this essay. When you ride a Segway, you look lazy. You're expending no muscle and you're not going particularly quickly. If you want to go faster, ride a bike, or jog. By riding a Segway you tell me you're too slobby to learn to job. That's not going to be the truth in all situations, but that's what it says nonetheless.
andreyf 17y ago
Steve Jobs' take on the Segway: "I think it's coming along," said Tim, "though we expect—" "I think it sucks!" said Jobs. His vehemence made Tim pause. "Why?" he asked, a bit stiffly. "It just does. [...] Its shape is not innovative, it's not elegant, it doesn't feel anthropomorphic." This is from "Code Name Ginger: The Story Behind Segway and Dean Kamen's Quest to Invent a New World". The chapter with the meeting with Jobs is available here: http://hbswk.hbs.edu/archive/3533.html http://hbswk.hbs.edu/archive/3533.html
- Xichekolas 17y ago
  While not Steve Jobs, I will always remember Maddox's thoughts on the Segway: http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=segway_more_complicated_than_it_needs_to_be http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=segway_more_...
  - stevejohnson 17y ago
    The campus police at my university use exactly that: basically a Segway with a third wheel on the back.
    - rythie 17y ago
      Our campus police use a golf cart
  - pingswept 17y ago
    I liked that rant, until I reached the part making fun of FETs: "What the hell does a FET do? Nobody knows, but I guarantee some nerd spent months writing a graduate thesis on why it's important (and failing)." That's just ignorant. FETs are week ~3 of an intro EE class. It's like saying "What the hell does a function do?" to make fun of C.
    - mixmax 17y ago
      Well nobody except programmers know what a function does.
jacquesm 17y ago
Sure the segway has it's issues (as does Dean Kamen) but that didn't stop him from amassing a cool billion + dollars so it seems he's doing something right. The guy holds 100+ patents and instead of resting on his laurels he just keeps going. He certainly has my respect (for the work he did, that he got wealthy of it is secondary to me). Anybody that would want to use a segway but doesn't because it makes them look smug has self confidence issues that the segway could never cure. If you need it and can afford it use it otherwise don't. Image doesn't enter in to the equation. That's the same nonsense that top gear gets in to, cars for hairdressers and that sort of crap.
- Devilboy 17y ago
  Dean is wrong most of the time, but he's doing it so frequently that it doesn't matter. The couple of hits made him pretty damn wealthy.
  - jacquesm 17y ago
    I know people that are never wrong. They also don't accomplish much, in fact they are so 'safe' I doubt they'll ever do something in the first place. If you do a lot chances are that you'll be wrong plenty of times. Given the average score of hits:misses Dean Kamen is comfortably outperforming pretty much any poster on HN, on top of that he seems to be a half decent human being trying to solve problems that really matter. His success rate is only part of the picture. Sure he's got an ego and there seems to be a disconnect with respect to how some 'ordinary' people perceive his products. But I guess that once you reach that level you have to be a very balanced person not to let it get to you in some way. There is some correlation between having a billion dollars in excess income and being out of touch.
jknupp 17y ago
And here I thought the reason the Segway never caught on was because it was prohibitively expensive to own and didn't fulfill any real need.
- weaksauce 17y ago
  Not to mention that you look like a tool and they are banned from the sidewalks of SF.
- avinashv 17y ago
  Came here to say this, with just one addition: I think there is a select group of people for whom the Segway has a legitimate use--I'm thinking along the lines of people who have trouble walking long distances (say, more than 5-10 minutes). I've seen a lot of people using the Segway for this purpose. But as a normal means of transportation? No. Price, need, rules for usage etc. are pretty big hindrances for purchase.
  - Afton 17y ago
    Actually, electric wheelchairs are superior for this purpose. People with mobility issues generally aren't going to want to stand for the 5-10 minutes. I've never ridden one, but if it requires core strength at all to lean-steer, then that rules it out for most people with disabilities.
  - ShabbyDoo 17y ago
    IIRC, Kamen was contractually prohibited from marketing the Segway as a health aid after selling the wheelchair with similar technology to J&J. One Segway dealer told me that a 3rd party retrofits them with seats for use by those who can't stand/walk for long periods but don't really need a wheelchair. Those who say, "Well, you could use a bike, wheelchair, etc." don't understand the use case. A person who can't walk long distances might use it in the mall to go from store to store. Then, when he sees something he wanted to look at, he could get off and browse around for a few minutes. It's the walk from the parking lot to the shoe section at WalMart that gets them -- it's not the few minutes spent perusing the boots.
- 17y ago
bkovitz 17y ago
Do people really yell insults at Segway riders?
- potatolicious 17y ago
  I wouldn't know, but I thought it was ironic that people in cars are yelling at Segway riders for being too lazy to walk. Pot, kettle.
  - tedunangst 17y ago
    Difference is people in cars are going places that are too far to walk. The perception is that any place you'd go on a segway you'd be able to walk to as well. For the hassle of parking and plugging it in, I'd certainly choose walking over the segway.
    - potatolicious 17y ago
      Really? I frequently walk home from work - just over 2.5mi. If I wanted to get all superior, I can proclaim that anyone driving for a trip less than 2 miles is lazy, but who am I to judge? "walking distance" varies for everyone, and I know plenty of people who get in cars to go to the corner store.
      - rythie 17y ago
        I occasionally drive that sort of short distance and it's usually because I need/want to be there quickly or I have something heavy/bulky to carry.
- dandrews 17y ago
  I get way less than I used to, but people have gotten used to seeing me. When there are insults, it's usually high school age boys screaming out the car window as they drive by. "Faggot!" "Mall cop!" "Walk, you lazy bastard!" Funny: they never do it when their cars are stopped.
nsrivast 17y ago
I think they just needed the right celebrity sponsor: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbRSQVsOX_Y http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbRSQVsOX_Y
ccc3 17y ago
I agree that the dork factor is working against the Segway, but I don't think it's the dominant factor in it's failure. If Segways were significantly better solutions to the problem of transportation in dense areas, ordinary people would have started to use them and the dork factor would have faded away. In my view the biggest reason for the Segway's failure is that it's a product designed for an infrastructure that doesn't exist. Kamen and his team envisioned cities without cars when they were designing the Segway. Unfortunately all that's available are crowded sidewalks, making the Segway the most expensive way to move along at walking pace.
- robg 17y ago
  I agree on the infrastructure part. Still it does seem like we're moving in the direction they've envisioned. Some European countries are now closing some streets to car traffic and NYC recently closed sections around Times Square. The car culture is changing but it's going to take a while. Even then though, I don't think the Segway will ever succeed in that market as currently designed. It is dorky. Problem is, I don't know what an alternative should look like. It feels like I'll know it when I see it.
deleted 17y ago
[deleted]
gfodor 17y ago
Spot on. Kamen just needed to change the design a bit so it would look cool and fun to ride. Add a seat, make the rider lean into it, angle the handlebars, whatever. The bottom line is you need to make the person look like they are "driving" and "riding" and not "being transported." All they needed to do was the "teenager test" -- put it in front of a bunch of high school kids and see if they'd ride it in front of each other.
- grandalf 17y ago
  I think the current version would easily pass that test. I went to the Best Buy store in Palo Alto where you can demo one for free. The guy there told me that after hours they race it around the store and parking lot, etc. Customer demos are limited to "turtle mode" but it was still incredibly fun to ride. I could see teenagers mocking it if they could't afford one (which most could not) but there is no doubt it's one of the most fun things I've ever ridden -- probably even more fun than skateboarding.
zhyder 17y ago
It isn't fair to compare people's reactions to a Segway/Segwell with their reactions to the Eunicycle, because the latter still hasn't worn off its novelty. People probably initially smiled when they saw the first Segways too. Given enough time and hype, people will insult you on the Eunicycle the same way.
jasonlbaptiste 17y ago
The mall cops on segways with the helmets literally make me chuckle every time I see them. I feel they are only able to stop crimes by making thieves laugh endlessly.
thunk 17y ago
Hunting for a name to better capture this essence, I settled on: Mopodium. Mopode for short.
uuilly 17y ago
dorkiness( helmet + segway ) == factorial( dorkiness( segway ) );
- deleted 17y ago
  [deleted]
- dhimes 17y ago
  Was going to downmod, but instead I'll reply: a friend of mind died riding a scooter from one driveway to the next at very low speed. A helmet (we had helmet laws) would have saved him. I'm trying to get my kids to understand this when they ride their bikes. Just sayin'...
zach 17y ago
My college friend worked on an electric skateboard that looked cool like that: http://frankschmitt.org/projects/powerboard http://frankschmitt.org/projects/powerboard It has strain gauges that let you control it by shifting your weight. Looks cool yet there is no visible effort so it's a little surprising.
lutorm 17y ago
I think people are yelling insults because they know a Segway is a really expensive toy and they are jealous they can't blow that amount of money on something so frivolous.
- jodrellblank 17y ago
  So you predict people will yell insults at supercar owners too?
  - dougp 17y ago
    A lot of people do or worse at least where I grew up.
raghus 17y ago
"Too lazy to walk, ya fuckin homo?" - in downtown Mountain View? Wow. The park next to where I live (next door Sunnyvale) occasionally has Segway Polo matches. I wonder what folks will say to that.
TweedHeads 17y ago
For $5000 I rather buy a Kawasaki Ninja 500R and look cool. Even ATVs are cooler and there are some new models coming that look badass. Now, if it was $900 like a mountain bike, I may give it a try.
kirubakaran 17y ago
Considering the insult, may be the car driver is just a "flag waving, war loving, homophobic, yellow-ribbon-on-gas-guzzling-SUV, 'patriot'" angry at someone they consider to be a "latte sipping, tree hugging, segway riding, book reading, weed smoking, 'unamerican' atheist elitist hippie".
timdellinger 17y ago
I put the Segway in the same category as the fanny pack. They both seem like they ought to be useful, but for the most part both are more trouble than they're worth in actual practice. Plus they offend our sense of aesthetics in hard to define ways.
- tokenadult 17y ago
  Plus they offend our sense of aesthetics in hard to define ways. Human beings probably have long-adapted evolutionary modules influencing which appearances of other human beings look cool and which look dorky. It's hard to fight human nature on such things.
- mrtron 17y ago
  Joe Rogan is aggressively trying to make the fanny pack cool. Places your bets on the successfulness of it :)
  - khafra 17y ago
    The fanny pack enjoys some islets of popularity; for example, fixie-riding hipsters and ccw fans. I'd be surprised if they caught on among comedy/UFC fans, but it could happen.
- axod 17y ago
  Because over there, fanny means your arse. Not your minge. Hearing/seeing "fanny pack" still makes me snigger like a 10 year old. I agree though. Both look stupid.
cmars232 17y ago
Smugness can be a factor, but there is this general goofiness about the Segway. Whenever I see a Segway tour downtown (OMG its a Segway-gang! Run for your lives!) or someone "walking" their dog with a Segway in my neighborhood, I can't help but start snickering.
- pyre 17y ago
  Walking your dog on a Segway sounds ultra dorky, but I've seen Segway tours go by and they didn't look too dorky to me. Though I have a co-worker that uses a combo of Segway and transit to commute; it looks a little dorky.
jganetsk 17y ago
July has been a prolific month for pg.
kqr2 17y ago
Well, people have modded their segways to suit their personal tastes: http://www.segwayjunkyard.com/customs.htm http://www.segwayjunkyard.com/customs.htm
- pyre 17y ago
  The Segways with the treaded 'off-road' wheels look so awkward as to be laughable. I'm just picturing some guy with huge biceps and tattoos riding the thing talking about how he goes 'off-roading' on his Segway. And it just makes me chuckle.
herdrick 17y ago
I think the bigger problem is that it looks like a minivan. Steve Jobs was right - no sex.
rjett 17y ago
Contributing to the segway-smug/ridiculous factor is the fact that the segway is parodied in so many movies and television shows, most notably with JP in Grandma's Boy or in other movies like Paul Bart: Mall Cop. It's such an odd looking mode of transportation that it's easy to use it as some ridiculous prop.
indiejade 17y ago
Curiously enough, what got Segway into this problem was that the company was itself a kind of Segway. Don't you mean: "the company was itself a kind of segue" ? Weird word; http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/segue http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/segue
- indiejade 17y ago
  Can somebody please tell me why this was downmodded? I think inquiry regarding natural language is pretty normal. I've waited patiently until this was off the front page, so it's definitely not all about attention-seeking. I am truly curious.
rjurney 17y ago
There is a market for the Segway, its just not the one they assumed it would be. Thats very common. They assumed consumers would want one - in fact police like them. Smaller market, raised too much money. Lesson there some place: , insufficient early customer contact.
jbr 17y ago
I'd like to respond to the last paragraph, which seems like the relevant point for a startup audience. "It was too easy for them; they were too successful raising money. If they'd had to grow the company gradually, by iterating through several versions they sold to real users, they'd have learned pretty quickly that people looked stupid riding them." This is less an issue of funding and more an issue of their belief that they would make a "new cool"/"paradigm shift"/"disruptive tech." Although this might often be correlated with funding, I think that's because funded disruptive technologies are the ones that make waves (heh). Segway was a company that had the balls to believe that cities would change shape for them; it seems ludicrous to think that looking silly (now) would pose much of a threat to their confidence, money or not. So instead of pg's conclusion that it was the funding that inhibited them, I suggest it's the very nature of disruptive technologies. Some of these fail and we laugh about it; others actually change the fabric of modern life. In fact, perhaps it's because they had such a big, outrageous dream that they captured the public imagination (and possibly funding). Outrageous propositions like "technology that changes the shape of industrialized cities" are the sort of black-swan-esque gamble that VCs seem to adore. (Nicholas Taleb's extremistan / pareto principle) Not to mention that it makes a great story for the media.
Mz 17y ago
For me, seeing a Segway always calls to mind the image of Martians in Bugs Bunny cartoons: http://www.guba.com/watch/2000901951 http://www.guba.com/watch/2000901951. I tend to assume that is in the subconscious of a great many Americans and contributes to the fact that we find them so laughable.
frankus 17y ago
Too bad my YC application for a Segway-style skateboard startup got rejected :P (It was probably my lousy application that sunk it, combined with the fact that my co-founder couldn't move to the Bay Area, combined with the difficulty in scaling a manufacturing enterprise at rates that would interest VC money). Anyway the idea was to take something like this: http://3wdm.blogspot.com/ http://3wdm.blogspot.com/ ...and make it about half the size, half the weight, and not homemade-looking. I still have some of the spares from that project (the original was stolen) that I'll try and put something together with soon.
- trapper 17y ago
  That is seriously cool. Go for it!
mrtron 17y ago
I would like to give a completely different reason why the Segway sucks. Great public transit blows it out of the water. Consider a trip to a city like Berlin and then travel from there to Munich, with lots of travel in the city. Renting a Segway isn't adequate because you commonly want to travel long distances. You also don't want to deal with theft, break downs, weather patterns, etc. Now consider your habits in your local city - travel is prohibitive based on how far you can walk or with driving parking is commonly a problem. Selling a bunch of expensive single person transportation units is solving the wrong problem. Making great public transit for cities solves transportation needs.
- natrius 17y ago
  High quality public transportation plus bike sharing kiosks at every station and spread around nearby (i.e. a bunch of cheap single person transportation units) seems like the perfect transportation solution to me. Bikes extend the reach of the transit system by at least a mile, which would be a godsend given the lack of transit-supportive density in most American cities.
  - jasonkester 17y ago
    Free Bikes are cool an all, but they tend to all get stolen in about a week. Or better still, you end up with "Velib Extrem!": http://road.cc/content/news/2223-velib-extreme-hits-parisian-bike-hire-scheme…-allegedly http://road.cc/content/news/2223-velib-extreme-hits-parisian...
    - natrius 17y ago
      I meant paid bike sharing, like Velib. Despite JCDecaux's complaints, I think they're still making money off of it. From what I've read, their losses on the program are paid by the city after a certain point.
thunk 17y ago
I'm fascinated by how few of you agree that it failed because it looks smug. It seems so obvious! People on Segways look like they feel entitled to coast around standing at a podium, a mobile soapbox. That's it, plain and simple. Price: irrelevant. Utility: irrelevant. Inspiring instinctual revulsion in onlookers: relevant. It's the vehicular embodiment of Comic Book Guy's voice. Edit: This is probably why a lot of geeks have a blind spot here. Edit2: And it's not the laziness or uncoolness of it that's the problem either. Take the goddam Hoverround -- if anything's worthy of scorn, it is. And yet it sells like crazy. No, the exact, specific problem with the Segway is you look like you're standing at a podium.
e40 17y ago
I dislike the Segway because they're dangerous to pedestrians on sidewalks. On a sidewalk there are no rules. Want to toss your candy wrapper? Just head straight for the trash can over there. There are no lanes, though people generally keep to the right. Don't want to keep to the right? OK, walk on the left. We pedestrians are conditioned to listen for possible collisions (runners, faster walkers, bikes), but it's just not possible with the Segway. It's too quiet. Several times I've been very startled by a Segway brushing past me on the sidewalk, leaving feeling relieved that I didn't get hit. The only good thing about them is there are so few out there, that it's not a common problem. If there were a lot of them, there would be frequent collisions with pedestrians.
dmose 17y ago
Cannondale bad boy > segway
beaker 17y ago
This is my favorite pg essay of all time! Very true and very funny (in a dry sort of way).
olefoo 17y ago
The riotwheel falls into the category of 'things that are technically similar to a segway, but much cooler'. http://www.theriotwheel.com/Tech_BigBits.html http://www.theriotwheel.com/Tech_BigBits.html Watch the videos, this is a self-balancing electric vehicle that would look at home on the road chasing mad max.
10ren 17y ago
Remember China's military segways? http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2008/07/chinese-police/ http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2008/07/chinese-police/ I hate to admit it, but pg is right. Even in a cooler design, in black, and wearing SWAT gear with machine guns etc, they still makes them look like dorks. Maybe... if segways had become wildly popular, we wouldn't think so? Fashions do change perceptions (consider the 70's). But in this present reality, I think pg is right.
messel 17y ago
Would it be possible to have Paul's essays auto added here, and a link here from the essay? Would mak it feel more like what it is, his comment section.
mattheww 17y ago
At my university, the campus security used Segways. I imagine that they were able to cover ground more easily than on foot and it was easier to stop and talk to people than if they were on bicycles (referenced by another commenter). The campus was small enough that there wasn't much road access within. They didn't look that dorky either, even with their helmets.

221 points by mqt 17y ago

The best thing the Segway has contributed to society are the antics of Will Arnett's character, Gob, on Arrested Development. He showed just how dorky the Segway really is.

ivankirigin 17y ago

Dean Kamen has got to be one of the most arrogant engineers in the world (though obviously really talented too). You can't bring up why Seqway's were retarded without mentioning that personality. I might also point out that the reason they failed so spectacularly was a ridiculous level of hype. "Revolutionize transportation" just doesn't fit a reconfigured motorized bicycle. Having aggressively ridden one while towing a rollerblader with a bungee cord, I can say for sure the most successful marketing would have been as an entertainment and recreational vehicle. Then they'd be like ATVs, but permissible in urban areas. Also, you wouldn't compare the price to a bicycle (10X) but to an ATV (0.5X depending)

thedjpetersen 17y ago
Him and Wolfram seem to have a lot in common...
- TriinT 17y ago
  Except that Kamen has achieved something, while Wolfram has not achieved much. Kamen created new technology that helps people. What has Wolfram achieved in the last 30 years?
  - yan 17y ago
    What?! You don't consider Mathematica a technology that helps people?
    - TriinT 17y ago
      Well, I don't use Mathematica, so it does not help me. There are other computer algebra systems out there. There are substitutes. By contrast, Kamen created medical devices that help save lives (e.g., dialysis systems, insulin pumps, etc). I love software, but some problems can't be solved with software alone... Though Wolfram started Mathematica, he has not been actively contributing to it for many years. So, while Mathematica has helped many mathematicians, the kudos go to Wolfram AND his programmers. As much as Wolfram loves to project the image of the lone-wolf genius (and fail to give credit to other people), the truth is that Mathematica is a huge team effort these days. So, imagine that Mathematica had not been created. Mathematicians would be using other computer algebra systems. If Kamen had not invented his stuff, people would have died. They're playing entirely different games. Sure, Wolfram was a teenage genius that got his PhD in particle physics at Caltech at age 21 or so... but he needs to invent cold fusion (or something huge like that) to attain the fame and notoriety his ego demands.
  - jodrellblank 17y ago
    "What has Wolfram achieved in the last 30 years?" A new kind of science
    - TriinT 17y ago
      ANKOS is neither new nor Science...
      - blasdel 17y ago
        ...nor Wolfram
  - TriinT 17y ago
    Keep downvoting. I would appreciate if someone had the balls to stand up and say what is it that Wolfram has achieved. OK, he has a cool software company, but for a guy who wanted to revolutionize Physics, that's a meager accomplishment. I can think of tens of Caltech alumni who accomplished much more than Wolfram, but who are less inclined to publicize themselves. Some examples: - Arnold Beckman: invented the pH meter, founded Beckman Instruments, and funded tons of great research. Has two buildings at Caltech named after him. - Linus Pauling: revolutionized Chemistry, Biochemistry and Molecular Biology. Won 2 Nobel prizes. - Charles Townes: invented the maser, won the Nobel prize. - Bill Shockley: co-invented the transistor, won the Nobel prize. - Donald Knuth: invented TeX, wrote TAOCP. - Gordon Moore: founded Intel, started the microprocessor revolution, changed the world. - Irving Reed: made important contributions to the field of error-correcting codes. - Carver Mead: revolutionized electronics, founded tons of companies. He's one of the greatest technologists of the last 50 years, and yet few people know of him. - Bill Gross: started IdeaLab and founded tons of cool startups. So.. what is it that Wolfram has achieved? His papers on Cellular Automata are cute, but not earth-shattering. ANKOS is a recreational book with more artistic value than scientific value. Mathematica is great, but we could do well without it as there are tons of other CAS'es out there. Alpha is still hype. For someone of such high intellectual caliber, Wolfram has not accomplished much indeed. Feel free to downvote. Or, if you actually have anything insightful to say, go ahead and destroy my argument.
amelim 17y ago
Dean may be arrogant, but I find it hard to fault him when his foundation of the FIRST robotics league for high schoolers has impacted my life so significantly. I participated in the 2006 year with my high school as a senior and now I'm working at a major commercial and government robotics company. His outreach to students through the FIRST organization is one of the best science technology activities for teenagers.
- asmithmd1 17y ago
  I am also a big fan of FIRST but think he has the problem of having had success early in life and therefore doesn't know his limitations. Take a look at the FIRST logo for instance - it sucks. And the name, FIRST robot competition, makes it difficult to explain to someone and impossible to brand: "What do you mean first robot competition, I have been hearing about robot competitions for years." The Segway is a classic engineering failure, a solution in search of a problem. They developed the iBOT wheelchair: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBOT http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBOT and where looking for a way to sell a commercial version. I think the quote "medical device styling" is right on. If, instead of using his usual industrial design firm, he had given this to IDEO and had them pump out 20 different versions they might have had something.
- ivankirigin 17y ago
  Kamen isn't the only one involved in FIRST, by far. It's a symptom of the personality that you would react like that.
  - amelim 17y ago
    Perhaps. He's not the only person involved with FIRST (probably not even the most important), and my praise has more to do with the actual event than the person. Honestly, when it comes down to it, I could care less about someone's personality. It's more about their actual achievements (of which he's had both hits and misses).
- lyime 17y ago
  +1 I am also a big fan of FIRST.

adamhowell 17y ago

I've used the Segway example before when arguing with people against stealth startups. The big reveal just isn't worth the potential downside. Expecially with something like the Segway, where they needed buy-in from local government to let the things on the sidewalks. But, yeah, North Dumpling Island is all you need to know about the wackiness that is Dean Kamen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Dumpling_Island http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Dumpling_Island and http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/12/08/dean-kamens-led-nation/ http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/12/08/dean-kamens-led-nat...)

ohlol 17y ago

I disagree with the assertion that the reason people dislike Segways is because they make the rider look smug. I think it's because the people you see riding them ARE dorks. It's more of a guilt by association issue than anything.

robg 17y ago
I'm with pg. Take the recent movie with the mall cop. I only saw the trailer (I swear!) but a cop in uniform, even the rental version, isn't really dorky. But put him on a Segway and hilarity ensues! Another thought experiment: 1) Cop on a horse 2) Cop on a motorcycle 3) Cop on a mountain bike 4) Cop on a Segway I've ordered them, I think, from toughest to dorkiest. Maybe you could swap the horse and motorcycle (though horses are huge). But is there any doubt the Segway is in last place and by far?
- ohlol 17y ago
  Mmm, I think rental/mall cops are plenty dorky. They don't have guns, or for that matter any other tools to subdue perps, do they? That makes them pretty harmless in my eyes. Have you seen the Segway tours? http://bit.ly/4J4yJ http://bit.ly/4J4yJ Throw some dubs or spinnas on those bad boys, and they'd still look like dorks. edit- But I do agree with your list. Horses > motorcycles, for sure.
  - robg 17y ago
    I think it's the mall as context. Is a security guard at a dark warehouse dorky? They're not especially cool, but I don't get negative thoughts. That Segway tour pic is pretty funny. It may be the helmets and manpurses, but funny still the same.
  - shpxnvz 17y ago
    Throw some dubs or spinnas on those bad boys, and they'd still look like dorks. Funny, personally I think that cars with spinners and huge rims looks quite a bit more dorky then Segways. The big difference between the two is that the Segway never had a sufficiently counter-cultural fan base, and therefore had exactly the wrong sort of exclusivity.

philwelch 17y ago

Try this thought experiment and it becomes clear: imagine something that worked like the Segway, but that you rode with one foot in front of the other, like a skateboard. That wouldn't seem nearly as uncool. So there may be a way to capture more of the market Segway hoped to reach: make a version that doesn't look so easy for the rider. It would also be helpful if the styling was in the tradition of skateboards or bicycles rather than medical devices." There's such a thing as an "electric skateboard", Randall Munroe (creator of xkcd) is fond of them.

deleted 17y ago
[deleted]

quellhorst 17y ago

The trouble with the segway is that is isn't better than a bicycle. The 12.5 mph top speed of the segway feels slow to me when I'm on my bike. My range on a bike is also further than the segway and it also makes me healthier. What the segway needs is to be made faster, you must go faster than 25 mph and it needs to compete better against bicycles and scooters.

deleted 17y ago
[deleted]

rewind 17y ago

All I can think of now when I hear someone reference the Segwey is Woz playing Segwey polo on one. If that doesn't say dorky, I don't know what does.

jodrellblank 17y ago
The Segway features in Weird Al Yankovic's "White and Nerdy", lumped into the same category as doing vector calculus for fun, fluency in Klingon and wearing a pocket protector... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbVtbc_XzrI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbVtbc_XzrI

maxharris 17y ago

I have a Segway (a black i2). I'm sure that people think I'm a dork, but that doesn't bother me. It's fun to ride, and it gets me to class on time, unlike the bus. Graham's comments are dead-on, but don't let that stop you from getting one if you want. What other people think (especially the average man on the street) doesn't matter as long as you don't want anything from them.

andreyf 17y ago
Yeah, that's not how most people work. Whether we admit it or not, we want people to like us even if we'll never see them again.
- grandalf 17y ago
  may be true, but if you are so sensitive that you care if someone thinks you are a dork for riding a segway then you deserve to walk.
  - jonknee 17y ago
    Fashion is a multi billion dollar industry--people care greatly about how they look. You may not, but you are the outlier.
    - grandalf 17y ago
      It is just signaling, not design. The segway does emit a strong signal, which is why its design is hated... Few people hate or love the design of the ford taurus, for example. And, few would call it great design or horrible design. It emits a weak signal. I'd argue that if kamen changed the segway design it would just appeal to a different set of people, it wouldn't really be better. There is nothing wrong with the design. It is simple and without stupid frills.
  - unalone 17y ago
    It's not sensitive, it's intelligent. Fashion is a matter of presenting yourself in ways that display your best attributes. It's design that applies to the self. Why are we allowed to critique a web site for having small type and a shitty font and bad colors, but we can't criticize people with poor fashion sense? They're one and the same. The fact that fashion is subject to marketing doesn't make it inherently worthless. For once I can't disagree with a thing Paul said in this essay. When you ride a Segway, you look lazy. You're expending no muscle and you're not going particularly quickly. If you want to go faster, ride a bike, or jog. By riding a Segway you tell me you're too slobby to learn to job. That's not going to be the truth in all situations, but that's what it says nonetheless.

andreyf 17y ago

Steve Jobs' take on the Segway: "I think it's coming along," said Tim, "though we expect—" "I think it sucks!" said Jobs. His vehemence made Tim pause. "Why?" he asked, a bit stiffly. "It just does. [...] Its shape is not innovative, it's not elegant, it doesn't feel anthropomorphic." This is from "Code Name Ginger: The Story Behind Segway and Dean Kamen's Quest to Invent a New World". The chapter with the meeting with Jobs is available here: http://hbswk.hbs.edu/archive/3533.html http://hbswk.hbs.edu/archive/3533.html

Xichekolas 17y ago
While not Steve Jobs, I will always remember Maddox's thoughts on the Segway: http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=segway_more_complicated_than_it_needs_to_be http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=segway_more_...
- stevejohnson 17y ago
  The campus police at my university use exactly that: basically a Segway with a third wheel on the back.
  - rythie 17y ago
    Our campus police use a golf cart
- pingswept 17y ago
  I liked that rant, until I reached the part making fun of FETs: "What the hell does a FET do? Nobody knows, but I guarantee some nerd spent months writing a graduate thesis on why it's important (and failing)." That's just ignorant. FETs are week ~3 of an intro EE class. It's like saying "What the hell does a function do?" to make fun of C.
  - mixmax 17y ago
    Well nobody except programmers know what a function does.

jacquesm 17y ago

Sure the segway has it's issues (as does Dean Kamen) but that didn't stop him from amassing a cool billion + dollars so it seems he's doing something right. The guy holds 100+ patents and instead of resting on his laurels he just keeps going. He certainly has my respect (for the work he did, that he got wealthy of it is secondary to me). Anybody that would want to use a segway but doesn't because it makes them look smug has self confidence issues that the segway could never cure. If you need it and can afford it use it otherwise don't. Image doesn't enter in to the equation. That's the same nonsense that top gear gets in to, cars for hairdressers and that sort of crap.

Devilboy 17y ago
Dean is wrong most of the time, but he's doing it so frequently that it doesn't matter. The couple of hits made him pretty damn wealthy.
- jacquesm 17y ago
  I know people that are never wrong. They also don't accomplish much, in fact they are so 'safe' I doubt they'll ever do something in the first place. If you do a lot chances are that you'll be wrong plenty of times. Given the average score of hits:misses Dean Kamen is comfortably outperforming pretty much any poster on HN, on top of that he seems to be a half decent human being trying to solve problems that really matter. His success rate is only part of the picture. Sure he's got an ego and there seems to be a disconnect with respect to how some 'ordinary' people perceive his products. But I guess that once you reach that level you have to be a very balanced person not to let it get to you in some way. There is some correlation between having a billion dollars in excess income and being out of touch.

jknupp 17y ago

And here I thought the reason the Segway never caught on was because it was prohibitively expensive to own and didn't fulfill any real need.

weaksauce 17y ago
Not to mention that you look like a tool and they are banned from the sidewalks of SF.
avinashv 17y ago
Came here to say this, with just one addition: I think there is a select group of people for whom the Segway has a legitimate use--I'm thinking along the lines of people who have trouble walking long distances (say, more than 5-10 minutes). I've seen a lot of people using the Segway for this purpose. But as a normal means of transportation? No. Price, need, rules for usage etc. are pretty big hindrances for purchase.
- Afton 17y ago
  Actually, electric wheelchairs are superior for this purpose. People with mobility issues generally aren't going to want to stand for the 5-10 minutes. I've never ridden one, but if it requires core strength at all to lean-steer, then that rules it out for most people with disabilities.
- ShabbyDoo 17y ago
  IIRC, Kamen was contractually prohibited from marketing the Segway as a health aid after selling the wheelchair with similar technology to J&J. One Segway dealer told me that a 3rd party retrofits them with seats for use by those who can't stand/walk for long periods but don't really need a wheelchair. Those who say, "Well, you could use a bike, wheelchair, etc." don't understand the use case. A person who can't walk long distances might use it in the mall to go from store to store. Then, when he sees something he wanted to look at, he could get off and browse around for a few minutes. It's the walk from the parking lot to the shoe section at WalMart that gets them -- it's not the few minutes spent perusing the boots.
17y ago

bkovitz 17y ago

Do people really yell insults at Segway riders?

potatolicious 17y ago
I wouldn't know, but I thought it was ironic that people in cars are yelling at Segway riders for being too lazy to walk. Pot, kettle.
- tedunangst 17y ago
  Difference is people in cars are going places that are too far to walk. The perception is that any place you'd go on a segway you'd be able to walk to as well. For the hassle of parking and plugging it in, I'd certainly choose walking over the segway.
  - potatolicious 17y ago
    Really? I frequently walk home from work - just over 2.5mi. If I wanted to get all superior, I can proclaim that anyone driving for a trip less than 2 miles is lazy, but who am I to judge? "walking distance" varies for everyone, and I know plenty of people who get in cars to go to the corner store.
    - rythie 17y ago
      I occasionally drive that sort of short distance and it's usually because I need/want to be there quickly or I have something heavy/bulky to carry.
dandrews 17y ago
I get way less than I used to, but people have gotten used to seeing me. When there are insults, it's usually high school age boys screaming out the car window as they drive by. "Faggot!" "Mall cop!" "Walk, you lazy bastard!" Funny: they never do it when their cars are stopped.

nsrivast 17y ago

I think they just needed the right celebrity sponsor: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbRSQVsOX_Y http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbRSQVsOX_Y

ccc3 17y ago

I agree that the dork factor is working against the Segway, but I don't think it's the dominant factor in it's failure. If Segways were significantly better solutions to the problem of transportation in dense areas, ordinary people would have started to use them and the dork factor would have faded away. In my view the biggest reason for the Segway's failure is that it's a product designed for an infrastructure that doesn't exist. Kamen and his team envisioned cities without cars when they were designing the Segway. Unfortunately all that's available are crowded sidewalks, making the Segway the most expensive way to move along at walking pace.

robg 17y ago
I agree on the infrastructure part. Still it does seem like we're moving in the direction they've envisioned. Some European countries are now closing some streets to car traffic and NYC recently closed sections around Times Square. The car culture is changing but it's going to take a while. Even then though, I don't think the Segway will ever succeed in that market as currently designed. It is dorky. Problem is, I don't know what an alternative should look like. It feels like I'll know it when I see it.

deleted 17y ago

[deleted]

gfodor 17y ago

Spot on. Kamen just needed to change the design a bit so it would look cool and fun to ride. Add a seat, make the rider lean into it, angle the handlebars, whatever. The bottom line is you need to make the person look like they are "driving" and "riding" and not "being transported." All they needed to do was the "teenager test" -- put it in front of a bunch of high school kids and see if they'd ride it in front of each other.

grandalf 17y ago
I think the current version would easily pass that test. I went to the Best Buy store in Palo Alto where you can demo one for free. The guy there told me that after hours they race it around the store and parking lot, etc. Customer demos are limited to "turtle mode" but it was still incredibly fun to ride. I could see teenagers mocking it if they could't afford one (which most could not) but there is no doubt it's one of the most fun things I've ever ridden -- probably even more fun than skateboarding.

zhyder 17y ago

It isn't fair to compare people's reactions to a Segway/Segwell with their reactions to the Eunicycle, because the latter still hasn't worn off its novelty. People probably initially smiled when they saw the first Segways too. Given enough time and hype, people will insult you on the Eunicycle the same way.

jasonlbaptiste 17y ago

The mall cops on segways with the helmets literally make me chuckle every time I see them. I feel they are only able to stop crimes by making thieves laugh endlessly.

thunk 17y ago

Hunting for a name to better capture this essence, I settled on: Mopodium. Mopode for short.

uuilly 17y ago

dorkiness( helmet + segway ) == factorial( dorkiness( segway ) );

deleted 17y ago
[deleted]
dhimes 17y ago
Was going to downmod, but instead I'll reply: a friend of mind died riding a scooter from one driveway to the next at very low speed. A helmet (we had helmet laws) would have saved him. I'm trying to get my kids to understand this when they ride their bikes. Just sayin'...

zach 17y ago

My college friend worked on an electric skateboard that looked cool like that: http://frankschmitt.org/projects/powerboard http://frankschmitt.org/projects/powerboard It has strain gauges that let you control it by shifting your weight. Looks cool yet there is no visible effort so it's a little surprising.

lutorm 17y ago

I think people are yelling insults because they know a Segway is a really expensive toy and they are jealous they can't blow that amount of money on something so frivolous.

jodrellblank 17y ago
So you predict people will yell insults at supercar owners too?
- dougp 17y ago
  A lot of people do or worse at least where I grew up.

raghus 17y ago

"Too lazy to walk, ya fuckin homo?" - in downtown Mountain View? Wow. The park next to where I live (next door Sunnyvale) occasionally has Segway Polo matches. I wonder what folks will say to that.

TweedHeads 17y ago

For $5000 I rather buy a Kawasaki Ninja 500R and look cool. Even ATVs are cooler and there are some new models coming that look badass. Now, if it was $900 like a mountain bike, I may give it a try.

kirubakaran 17y ago

Considering the insult, may be the car driver is just a "flag waving, war loving, homophobic, yellow-ribbon-on-gas-guzzling-SUV, 'patriot'" angry at someone they consider to be a "latte sipping, tree hugging, segway riding, book reading, weed smoking, 'unamerican' atheist elitist hippie".

timdellinger 17y ago

I put the Segway in the same category as the fanny pack. They both seem like they ought to be useful, but for the most part both are more trouble than they're worth in actual practice. Plus they offend our sense of aesthetics in hard to define ways.

tokenadult 17y ago
Plus they offend our sense of aesthetics in hard to define ways. Human beings probably have long-adapted evolutionary modules influencing which appearances of other human beings look cool and which look dorky. It's hard to fight human nature on such things.
mrtron 17y ago
Joe Rogan is aggressively trying to make the fanny pack cool. Places your bets on the successfulness of it :)
- khafra 17y ago
  The fanny pack enjoys some islets of popularity; for example, fixie-riding hipsters and ccw fans. I'd be surprised if they caught on among comedy/UFC fans, but it could happen.
axod 17y ago
Because over there, fanny means your arse. Not your minge. Hearing/seeing "fanny pack" still makes me snigger like a 10 year old. I agree though. Both look stupid.

cmars232 17y ago

Smugness can be a factor, but there is this general goofiness about the Segway. Whenever I see a Segway tour downtown (OMG its a Segway-gang! Run for your lives!) or someone "walking" their dog with a Segway in my neighborhood, I can't help but start snickering.

pyre 17y ago
Walking your dog on a Segway sounds ultra dorky, but I've seen Segway tours go by and they didn't look too dorky to me. Though I have a co-worker that uses a combo of Segway and transit to commute; it looks a little dorky.

jganetsk 17y ago

July has been a prolific month for pg.

kqr2 17y ago

Well, people have modded their segways to suit their personal tastes: http://www.segwayjunkyard.com/customs.htm http://www.segwayjunkyard.com/customs.htm

pyre 17y ago
The Segways with the treaded 'off-road' wheels look so awkward as to be laughable. I'm just picturing some guy with huge biceps and tattoos riding the thing talking about how he goes 'off-roading' on his Segway. And it just makes me chuckle.

herdrick 17y ago

I think the bigger problem is that it looks like a minivan. Steve Jobs was right - no sex.

rjett 17y ago

Contributing to the segway-smug/ridiculous factor is the fact that the segway is parodied in so many movies and television shows, most notably with JP in Grandma's Boy or in other movies like Paul Bart: Mall Cop. It's such an odd looking mode of transportation that it's easy to use it as some ridiculous prop.

indiejade 17y ago

Curiously enough, what got Segway into this problem was that the company was itself a kind of Segway. Don't you mean: "the company was itself a kind of segue" ? Weird word; http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/segue http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/segue

indiejade 17y ago
Can somebody please tell me why this was downmodded? I think inquiry regarding natural language is pretty normal. I've waited patiently until this was off the front page, so it's definitely not all about attention-seeking. I am truly curious.

rjurney 17y ago

There is a market for the Segway, its just not the one they assumed it would be. Thats very common. They assumed consumers would want one - in fact police like them. Smaller market, raised too much money. Lesson there some place: , insufficient early customer contact.

jbr 17y ago

I'd like to respond to the last paragraph, which seems like the relevant point for a startup audience. "It was too easy for them; they were too successful raising money. If they'd had to grow the company gradually, by iterating through several versions they sold to real users, they'd have learned pretty quickly that people looked stupid riding them." This is less an issue of funding and more an issue of their belief that they would make a "new cool"/"paradigm shift"/"disruptive tech." Although this might often be correlated with funding, I think that's because funded disruptive technologies are the ones that make waves (heh). Segway was a company that had the balls to believe that cities would change shape for them; it seems ludicrous to think that looking silly (now) would pose much of a threat to their confidence, money or not. So instead of pg's conclusion that it was the funding that inhibited them, I suggest it's the very nature of disruptive technologies. Some of these fail and we laugh about it; others actually change the fabric of modern life. In fact, perhaps it's because they had such a big, outrageous dream that they captured the public imagination (and possibly funding). Outrageous propositions like "technology that changes the shape of industrialized cities" are the sort of black-swan-esque gamble that VCs seem to adore. (Nicholas Taleb's extremistan / pareto principle) Not to mention that it makes a great story for the media.

Mz 17y ago

For me, seeing a Segway always calls to mind the image of Martians in Bugs Bunny cartoons: http://www.guba.com/watch/2000901951 http://www.guba.com/watch/2000901951. I tend to assume that is in the subconscious of a great many Americans and contributes to the fact that we find them so laughable.

frankus 17y ago

Too bad my YC application for a Segway-style skateboard startup got rejected :P (It was probably my lousy application that sunk it, combined with the fact that my co-founder couldn't move to the Bay Area, combined with the difficulty in scaling a manufacturing enterprise at rates that would interest VC money). Anyway the idea was to take something like this: http://3wdm.blogspot.com/ http://3wdm.blogspot.com/ ...and make it about half the size, half the weight, and not homemade-looking. I still have some of the spares from that project (the original was stolen) that I'll try and put something together with soon.

trapper 17y ago
That is seriously cool. Go for it!

mrtron 17y ago

I would like to give a completely different reason why the Segway sucks. Great public transit blows it out of the water. Consider a trip to a city like Berlin and then travel from there to Munich, with lots of travel in the city. Renting a Segway isn't adequate because you commonly want to travel long distances. You also don't want to deal with theft, break downs, weather patterns, etc. Now consider your habits in your local city - travel is prohibitive based on how far you can walk or with driving parking is commonly a problem. Selling a bunch of expensive single person transportation units is solving the wrong problem. Making great public transit for cities solves transportation needs.

natrius 17y ago
High quality public transportation plus bike sharing kiosks at every station and spread around nearby (i.e. a bunch of cheap single person transportation units) seems like the perfect transportation solution to me. Bikes extend the reach of the transit system by at least a mile, which would be a godsend given the lack of transit-supportive density in most American cities.
- jasonkester 17y ago
  Free Bikes are cool an all, but they tend to all get stolen in about a week. Or better still, you end up with "Velib Extrem!": http://road.cc/content/news/2223-velib-extreme-hits-parisian-bike-hire-scheme…-allegedly http://road.cc/content/news/2223-velib-extreme-hits-parisian...
  - natrius 17y ago
    I meant paid bike sharing, like Velib. Despite JCDecaux's complaints, I think they're still making money off of it. From what I've read, their losses on the program are paid by the city after a certain point.

thunk 17y ago

I'm fascinated by how few of you agree that it failed because it looks smug. It seems so obvious! People on Segways look like they feel entitled to coast around standing at a podium, a mobile soapbox. That's it, plain and simple. Price: irrelevant. Utility: irrelevant. Inspiring instinctual revulsion in onlookers: relevant. It's the vehicular embodiment of Comic Book Guy's voice. Edit: This is probably why a lot of geeks have a blind spot here. Edit2: And it's not the laziness or uncoolness of it that's the problem either. Take the goddam Hoverround -- if anything's worthy of scorn, it is. And yet it sells like crazy. No, the exact, specific problem with the Segway is you look like you're standing at a podium.

e40 17y ago

I dislike the Segway because they're dangerous to pedestrians on sidewalks. On a sidewalk there are no rules. Want to toss your candy wrapper? Just head straight for the trash can over there. There are no lanes, though people generally keep to the right. Don't want to keep to the right? OK, walk on the left. We pedestrians are conditioned to listen for possible collisions (runners, faster walkers, bikes), but it's just not possible with the Segway. It's too quiet. Several times I've been very startled by a Segway brushing past me on the sidewalk, leaving feeling relieved that I didn't get hit. The only good thing about them is there are so few out there, that it's not a common problem. If there were a lot of them, there would be frequent collisions with pedestrians.

dmose 17y ago

Cannondale bad boy > segway

beaker 17y ago

This is my favorite pg essay of all time! Very true and very funny (in a dry sort of way).

olefoo 17y ago

The riotwheel falls into the category of 'things that are technically similar to a segway, but much cooler'. http://www.theriotwheel.com/Tech_BigBits.html http://www.theriotwheel.com/Tech_BigBits.html Watch the videos, this is a self-balancing electric vehicle that would look at home on the road chasing mad max.

10ren 17y ago

Remember China's military segways? http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2008/07/chinese-police/ http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2008/07/chinese-police/ I hate to admit it, but pg is right. Even in a cooler design, in black, and wearing SWAT gear with machine guns etc, they still makes them look like dorks. Maybe... if segways had become wildly popular, we wouldn't think so? Fashions do change perceptions (consider the 70's). But in this present reality, I think pg is right.

messel 17y ago

Would it be possible to have Paul's essays auto added here, and a link here from the essay? Would mak it feel more like what it is, his comment section.

mattheww 17y ago

At my university, the campus security used Segways. I imagine that they were able to cover ground more easily than on foot and it was easier to stop and talk to people than if they were on bicycles (referenced by another commenter). The campus was small enough that there wasn't much road access within. They didn't look that dorky either, even with their helmets.