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> That's a fantastic story my friend. It took some luck but also a lot of guts and self confidence to do that. Glad you managed it. Story is fantastic, but I'm

> That's a fantastic story my friend. It took some luck but also a lot of guts and self confidence to do that. Glad you managed it. Story is fantastic, but I'm not glad he did it. I would like it much more if he understood that gambling is a zero sum game except for gambling companies, and stopped playing it after learning a lesson.

bermanoid 13y ago
When the payoff for not hitting a certain monetary threshold is extremely negative and out of proportion to the amount of money in question (lose your wife/house/family/life) that can actually change that calculus, and taking a losing bet is your best move in the absence of other options.
avalaunch 13y ago
I'm well aware that poker is a zero sum game, at least as far as the exchange of money is concerned. That being said, that doesn't mean that playing professionally provides no value to society. As with any game or sport, there's a certain entertainment value provided to those that play as well as those that watch. Even those players that never make it on tv help to provide the foundation for the ecosystem needed to provide the entertainment on a global level, in the same manner that minor league sporting athletes help support the majors. All that being said, the entire reason I was devoting time and effort to my side projects was the belief that I could derive more meaning from life doing something other than poker. I was already trying to transition to something new. Black Friday just gave me a giant kick in the ass. Also, poker is not gambling, at least not the way I play.
- shawabawa3 13y ago
  > Also, poker is not gambling, at least not the way I play. What you did that night was definitely gambling (buying in with 100% of your bankroll). Glad it worked out for you though
  - avalaunch 13y ago
    I understand the spirit of what you're saying. Typically risking your entire bankroll is a bad move because you're risking more than you can afford to lose. I'd argue that, in this instance, that wasn't the case. If anything, I was on a "free roll" of sorts. Winning that night would significantly improve my situation (allow me to pay my bills) where losing would not significantly worsen my situation - I'd still be screwed. There just wasn't much difference between having 1k and having 0 and I didn't have enough time to build slowly.
- levosmetalo 13y ago
  Well, in that case I can only congratulate you for getting rid of the poker. I'm glad that you had a rational approach and kept kalm that allowed you way out. And about poker being not gambling, well I don't agree. However smart you play, as much as you count on the statistics, in the end of the day, there's still luck involved. Even if it were only pure skill game, you can't always know skill level of your opponents :)
  - oneeyedpigeon 13y ago
    "However smart you play, as much as you count on the statistics, in the end of the day, there's still luck involved." I guess absolutely everything we do in life is gambling, then :)
    - alxndr 13y ago
      Not everything I do involves competing with someone else for both my own and their money.
  - bmelton 13y ago
    At the end of each day, yes, luck is a big factor. At the end of a career, statistical probabilities remain supreme, and you'll find that the hand you're supposed to play 60% of the time will win about 60% of the time. You're not wrong to be critical of the OP for gambling with his lunch money, but at the same time, it's wrong to conflate statistics with luck. If "the way he plays" is "by the numbers", then luck really isn't a factor. Sure, it may bear on any given hand, but in a long enough game, luck is all but eliminated as being relevant.
    - avalaunch 13y ago
      I agree entirely with everything other than the lunch money comment. Having 1k was no better to me than having 0 - in either case, I wouldn't have enough to pay my bills - so I wasn't really risking anything significant. Really, I only stood to benefit by taking the risk. If I had enough time I would have rebuilt my bankroll slowly but I simply didn't have enough time.
- icelancer 13y ago
  >Also, poker is not gambling, at least not the way I play. Yes, it is. No matter how you play. I question how "professional" you are if you don't even understand this basic concept of advantage gambling.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
    - mindrag 13y ago
      No, I believe he is saying that he had a downswing in his poker career during that time, i.e., losing a lot of games.
    - avalaunch 13y ago
      I was referring to my poker career. I can't remember the exact number but I think I had just lost around 25k in the month leading up to my wedding.
joosters 13y ago
Why do people insist on telling us that gambling is a zero-sum game, in an attempt to sound wise and knowledgeable? Do you really believe the are people who think that a poker game magically creates new money for everyone?
- lmm 13y ago
  There are people who act like they believe that.
- chii 13y ago
  > people insist on telling us that gambling is a zero-sum game people who insist on saying 'zero-sum' is really just passive-aggressively saying that the person indulging on said activity should've spent their time on other non-zero sum activity.
  - trothoun 13y ago
    Like SEO :)
- zacinbusiness 13y ago
  I complain because I SUCK at poker and it makes me mad when smart asses take all my money :-) It's still a hell of a lot of fun though.
hangonhn 13y ago
I don't know... There's something "romantic" about the whole thing. Sometimes we have to do things that are irrational to experience life. It's sort of like climbing Everest. It makes no sense and still quite dangerous but people do it to satisfy some irrational yearning. The irrationality and the circumstances of his story are what makes it all so beautiful.

bermanoid 13y ago

When the payoff for not hitting a certain monetary threshold is extremely negative and out of proportion to the amount of money in question (lose your wife/house/family/life) that can actually change that calculus, and taking a losing bet is your best move in the absence of other options.

avalaunch 13y ago

I'm well aware that poker is a zero sum game, at least as far as the exchange of money is concerned. That being said, that doesn't mean that playing professionally provides no value to society. As with any game or sport, there's a certain entertainment value provided to those that play as well as those that watch. Even those players that never make it on tv help to provide the foundation for the ecosystem needed to provide the entertainment on a global level, in the same manner that minor league sporting athletes help support the majors. All that being said, the entire reason I was devoting time and effort to my side projects was the belief that I could derive more meaning from life doing something other than poker. I was already trying to transition to something new. Black Friday just gave me a giant kick in the ass. Also, poker is not gambling, at least not the way I play.

shawabawa3 13y ago
> Also, poker is not gambling, at least not the way I play. What you did that night was definitely gambling (buying in with 100% of your bankroll). Glad it worked out for you though
- avalaunch 13y ago
  I understand the spirit of what you're saying. Typically risking your entire bankroll is a bad move because you're risking more than you can afford to lose. I'd argue that, in this instance, that wasn't the case. If anything, I was on a "free roll" of sorts. Winning that night would significantly improve my situation (allow me to pay my bills) where losing would not significantly worsen my situation - I'd still be screwed. There just wasn't much difference between having 1k and having 0 and I didn't have enough time to build slowly.
levosmetalo 13y ago
Well, in that case I can only congratulate you for getting rid of the poker. I'm glad that you had a rational approach and kept kalm that allowed you way out. And about poker being not gambling, well I don't agree. However smart you play, as much as you count on the statistics, in the end of the day, there's still luck involved. Even if it were only pure skill game, you can't always know skill level of your opponents :)
- oneeyedpigeon 13y ago
  "However smart you play, as much as you count on the statistics, in the end of the day, there's still luck involved." I guess absolutely everything we do in life is gambling, then :)
  - alxndr 13y ago
    Not everything I do involves competing with someone else for both my own and their money.
- bmelton 13y ago
  At the end of each day, yes, luck is a big factor. At the end of a career, statistical probabilities remain supreme, and you'll find that the hand you're supposed to play 60% of the time will win about 60% of the time. You're not wrong to be critical of the OP for gambling with his lunch money, but at the same time, it's wrong to conflate statistics with luck. If "the way he plays" is "by the numbers", then luck really isn't a factor. Sure, it may bear on any given hand, but in a long enough game, luck is all but eliminated as being relevant.
  - avalaunch 13y ago
    I agree entirely with everything other than the lunch money comment. Having 1k was no better to me than having 0 - in either case, I wouldn't have enough to pay my bills - so I wasn't really risking anything significant. Really, I only stood to benefit by taking the risk. If I had enough time I would have rebuilt my bankroll slowly but I simply didn't have enough time.
icelancer 13y ago
>Also, poker is not gambling, at least not the way I play. Yes, it is. No matter how you play. I question how "professional" you are if you don't even understand this basic concept of advantage gambling.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
  - mindrag 13y ago
    No, I believe he is saying that he had a downswing in his poker career during that time, i.e., losing a lot of games.
  - avalaunch 13y ago
    I was referring to my poker career. I can't remember the exact number but I think I had just lost around 25k in the month leading up to my wedding.

joosters 13y ago

Why do people insist on telling us that gambling is a zero-sum game, in an attempt to sound wise and knowledgeable? Do you really believe the are people who think that a poker game magically creates new money for everyone?

lmm 13y ago
There are people who act like they believe that.
chii 13y ago
> people insist on telling us that gambling is a zero-sum game people who insist on saying 'zero-sum' is really just passive-aggressively saying that the person indulging on said activity should've spent their time on other non-zero sum activity.
- trothoun 13y ago
  Like SEO :)
zacinbusiness 13y ago
I complain because I SUCK at poker and it makes me mad when smart asses take all my money :-) It's still a hell of a lot of fun though.

hangonhn 13y ago

I don't know... There's something "romantic" about the whole thing. Sometimes we have to do things that are irrational to experience life. It's sort of like climbing Everest. It makes no sense and still quite dangerous but people do it to satisfy some irrational yearning. The irrationality and the circumstances of his story are what makes it all so beautiful.