7 ms·

The Game Changed in Venezuela Last Night and the Media Is Asleep At the Switch

131 points by swohns 13y ago

rblatz 13y ago
"Let me put this clearly. Y’all need to step it up. The time to discard what you thought you knew about the way things work in Venezuela is now." Done. But I didn't really know how things worked there before either.
- DanielRibeiro 13y ago
  This is a nice writeup of what has been going on: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Venezuelan_protests#Government http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Venezuelan_protests#Govern... What I get from it in a nutshell: the protestors started by the group who was unhappy with the continuation of Hugo Chavez's government. That group has lost a lot of legitimacy after 2002's attempt coup[1], but the pro-government repression has been brutal, and that situation is brutally escalating. Edit: a more comprehensive summary from CNN[2]. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Venezuelan_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat_attempt http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Venezuelan_coup_d%27%C3%A9... [2] http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/20/world/americas/venezuela-qa/ http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/20/world/americas/venezuela-qa/
- andrewcooke 13y ago
  i posted this in another thread, but just as it slipped off front page. http://feministing.com/2014/02/20/toward-a-nuanced-feminist-discussion-on-venezuela/ http://feministing.com/2014/02/20/toward-a-nuanced-feminist-... it's a good description of what's happening (i know this is HN, and anything with "feminist" causes a shitstorm, but really it's just a very careful first person account that tries to explain all sides, so please skip the title). but that was written before whatever happened today/last night.
  - growupkids 13y ago
    Another brutal communist dictatorship. Why is it that some people think this one will somehow be different? It's always always always the same.
ChuckFrank 13y ago
Increasingly, I predict that we'll see more and more of these unreported incidents worldwide, especially as corporate media becomes more and more consolidated. Thankfully there are alternative news outlets that are available if you dig. Accurate or not. http://www.alternet.org/world/washington-tries-regime-change-venezuela http://www.alternet.org/world/washington-tries-regime-change... The lesson that this reinforces is that we can not rely on the media for the news. If ever we could.
- BugBrother 13y ago
  Well, any US conspiracies seems like a waste of money, since the Venezuelan government seems to do the impossible -- running an oil country into the ground. (But lots of people will be certain that all of that comes from more conspiracies from the US. :-) )
  - slurry 13y ago
    > since the Venezuelan government seems to do the impossible -- running an oil country into the ground. Most oil countries are badly run; and whatever you think of Hugo Chavez and his party, Venezuela was already at least halfway into the ground before they came along, tbqfh.
    - BugBrother 13y ago
      Are there really other oil countries that have a hard time to even get credit? And then there are the large social problems? A command economy that kills local business might be common, but the size must be worse in Venezuela? Etc. To close the opposition media and using the TV is quite standard in places like that. But as much as in Venezuela? (Libya and possibly Iraq has problems from violence and Iran has sanctions. They are a bit special cases.)
  - brc 13y ago
    I find it very depressing that socialism gets tried over and over again with the same predictable results. Power-mad but charismatic leader, wrecked national econonmy, widespread shortages of every day items, suppression of free media and free speech and finally the government murdering it's own citizens to suppress dissent. It's the same story over and over but people still seem to think 'this time it will be different'.
hudibras 13y ago
The AP has a story out now: http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2014/02/20/world/americas/ap-lt-venezuela-protests.html?ref=americas http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2014/02/20/world/americas/ap... EDIT: I googled to find the AP story, but I just now stumbled onto another article during my normal aimless coffee-break web surfing. So I think the story is picking up steam. http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/foreigners/2014/02/nicolas_maduro_s_venezuela_erupts_in_violence_the_venezuelan_president_appears.html http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/foreigners/2...
ChuckMcM 13y ago
The challenges here are threefold: 1) Trying to get reliable information out of a country. 2) Trying to figure out if it will drive "page views" or "viewership" or anything that pays the bills at the "media" center. 3) Creating a credible narrative around 'justice' in the face of massive injustice. That is why "global warming, you may die tomorrow" is a more important story than "far away government is repressing its own civilians." FWIW: The Economist has covered Venezuela (http://www.economist.com/search/gcs?ss=venezuela#masthead&gsc.tab=0&gsc.q=venezuela&gsc.page=1 http://www.economist.com/search/gcs?ss=venezuela#masthead&gs...) but even it doesn't provide breaking news coverage.
firstOrder 13y ago
> scan the press and find...Nothing. Ah the old, "there's a conspiracy to suppress what my side thinks in the news". Ten months ago, Maduro was elected president by the majority of the country. Some of the opposition tried to create this spectacle ten months in. The whole point of staging a big spectacle blocking highways etc., with some rioting, is to get world headlines. This has been happening in Venezuela for over 16 years. If the country was really anti-Maduro, it wouldn't have voted for him ten months ago. Also, it's not even like the opposition is united at all. It's completely factionalized, which is probably why it is out of power. It also reeks of that lazy, upper class, kind of slow and dumb Castillian Spanish aristocratic sense you sometimes find in Latin America. Like that man in the documentary "The Revolution will not be televised" who said "Watch your servants! They may be Chavistas!" Watch your servants, they may be Chavistas might as well be the slogan of the opposition. It's not something with much popular appeal, either in Venezuela, or even out.
- scott_karana 13y ago
  I'm not addressing your post, or the situation in Venezuela at all, but: > If the country was really anti-Maduro, it wouldn't have voted for him ten months ago Elections can be rigged. Votes can be bought. There always need to be more datapoints than just that.
  - GFK_of_xmaspast 13y ago
    I can't fund much about the 2013 election, but Jimmy Carter had this to say about 2012: """ "As a matter of fact, of the 92 elections that we've monitored, I would say the election process in Venezuela is the best in the world," Mr. Carter said, noting the center's extensive work monitoring elections around the globe. """
    - neves 13y ago
      The reference: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/oct/03/why-us-dcemonises-venezuelas-democracy http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/oct/03/why-us-...
amjaeger 13y ago
What are the press companies outside of the USA saying? Are they just as disinterested?
- daniel-cussen 13y ago
  No, I just watched the news here in Chile on Tuesday and it was in the headlines. It was very well covered.
- marcosdumay 13y ago
  In Brazil there was some notice, deep on the international sections of the written papers. I don't know about television.
  - oscargrouch 13y ago
    Brazil television is covering.. saying the opposition is in prison (for a bunch of fabricated crimes) and that there are shooting at people.. like the girl that was a beauty queen and was shot as a example.. in cable TV GloboNews there was a special today.. all about the protests.. with journalists from Brazil, there in Caracas.. didnt see it..
  - fiatjaf 13y ago
    Are you seeing support to venezuelan protests from the same people who supported the brazilian protests in June?
hornytoad 13y ago
"International Media Is Asleep At the Switch", only this guy somehow manages to see the truth. Yeah, right. Interesting so many people on hn seem to be jumping on this. So I went back to his oldest blog entries to see what his general stance is and if his judgements merit consideration or are slanted, which can be better be judged with years of hindsight, judge for yourself: "To my mind Chávez’ hold on reality is so tenuous that he really does think that six million people poured onto the streets on April 13th to demand his return. And with a narcissist leader who’s that cut-off from reality, political miscalculation is the order of the day." He was hugely popular then, and stayed that way until his death, if polls, which actually have received praise from international observers, are an indication. Chavez not only had the absolute majority behind him, they actually supported him. Just compare Venezuela's voter turnout with that in your own country. Wikipedia says about Venezuela's 2012 election: "The elections showed a historically high turnout, above 80% of the electorate, in a country where voting is not mandatory"
fiatjaf 13y ago
The good question for me is: what would YOU do if this was happening in your city? What choices does the unorganized and disarmed people have against a massive State with an army and policemen?
- crpatino 13y ago
  Take pictures of the policemen while they are murdering/raping/ransacking. Be very careful that their faces show up as clearly as possible. Then print 100's of copies and drop them at their children's school, at their neighbors' mailboxes, at the church they attend and the gym where they train. Let them explain how a regular day at daddy's office looks like to the people they actually care about.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
unclebucknasty 13y ago
Just had an interesting thought when reading this article. What if tomorrow, something similar happened in the U.S.? That is, what if government "forces" swept into a major city or cities and began arresting people on suspicion of terrorism, then sweeping them off to unknown locations? Simultaneously, what if drone strikes were called in on other "suspects"? What in our current laws (or interpretation thereof) would prevent this or protect those who were targeted? The question may sound rhetorical or like hyperbole, but I mean this seriously: is a FISA court the only thing standing between us and such a potential reality?
SocratesV 13y ago
http://lab.org.uk/venezuela-–-student-protests http://lab.org.uk/venezuela-–-student-protests http://lab.org.uk/venezuela-violent-demonstrations-and-the-media http://lab.org.uk/venezuela-violent-demonstrations-and-the-m... Not claiming these are unbiased sources, because they aren't (especially the second link). But even so, they can provide a good balance regarding what most western media (NY Times, CNN, Guardian, etc) reports (and omits from those reports). Some more and again, don't claim they are unbiased, but it's good to balance the coverage and these say a lot that isn't said in other places): "What’s going on in Venezuela?" -- http://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/10381 http://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/10381 "Venezuelan Government Reiterates Calls For Dialogue With Opposition" - http://venezuelanalysis.com/news/10379 http://venezuelanalysis.com/news/10379 http://www.reddit.com/r/socialism/comments/1xt9pf/venezuela_rightwing_provokes_violence_in_timeworn/cfeevit http://www.reddit.com/r/socialism/comments/1xt9pf/venezuela_... And regarding the general situation (not current events necessarily: "Despite Shortages, Venezuelans Are Eating Better Statistics Say" - http://venezuelanalysis.com/news/7632 http://venezuelanalysis.com/news/7632 "The Pros and Cons of Venezuela's Currency Controls" - http://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/10317 http://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/10317 "Could smuggling be to blame for Venezuela's food shortages?" - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-23885377 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-23885377 (small examples: http://pastebin.com/BFHKHdCG http://pastebin.com/BFHKHdCG ) Regarding crime, read about the Policia Nacional Bolivariana, who controls the local polices, who is the Governor of the State of Miranda and which force controls most boroughs (Municipios) in Caracas and that in general, they refuse the that the Policia Nacional Bolivariana to act and prefer instead to keep their mostly corrupt police force (understand that they see it as another way for the Government to have more control, but the truth is the PNB reduces crime, you can read more here, but also other places - http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Americas/Latin-America-Monitor/2013/0215/How-does-Venezuela-s-police-reform-measure-up http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Americas/Latin-America-Monito...) Also, note that before Chavez, most foreign oil companies were paying 1-17% royalties, after 20-30% (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_policy_of_Venezuela#Development_of_energy_policies http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_policy_of_Venezuela#Deve...) and that most of the oil profits go into housing, social, education, security and infrastructure (power plants - fixed and movable -, roads, ports, railways). Just another thing, believe that according to Article 72 of the Venezuelan Constitution, after the middle of the Presidential mandate, if 20% of the voters sign a petition, recall elections are scheduled. This has happened in 2004. Not claiming there aren't any problems, there certainly are. Not claiming I'm a fan of the style the Government adopt, I'm not. However we've all seen in the past what happens to democratically elected Governments when they don't play ball with US companies, and Latin America knows this more than anyone (but also Iran back in the first independence days, before the Shah...). My thoughts to the innocents that are caught in the crossfire and have their peaceful demonstrations hijacked by extremists. Hopefully Venezuela can overcome all current issues, become a better country and not go back to the almost oligarchic past of poverty (which none of the wealthy opposition ever tried to change) but not become a dictatorship. In summary, a place where people of all political quadrants can live and let others live.

131 points by swohns 13y ago

"Let me put this clearly. Y’all need to step it up. The time to discard what you thought you knew about the way things work in Venezuela is now." Done. But I didn't really know how things worked there before either.

DanielRibeiro 13y ago
This is a nice writeup of what has been going on: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Venezuelan_protests#Government http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Venezuelan_protests#Govern... What I get from it in a nutshell: the protestors started by the group who was unhappy with the continuation of Hugo Chavez's government. That group has lost a lot of legitimacy after 2002's attempt coup[1], but the pro-government repression has been brutal, and that situation is brutally escalating. Edit: a more comprehensive summary from CNN[2]. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Venezuelan_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat_attempt http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Venezuelan_coup_d%27%C3%A9... [2] http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/20/world/americas/venezuela-qa/ http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/20/world/americas/venezuela-qa/
andrewcooke 13y ago
i posted this in another thread, but just as it slipped off front page. http://feministing.com/2014/02/20/toward-a-nuanced-feminist-discussion-on-venezuela/ http://feministing.com/2014/02/20/toward-a-nuanced-feminist-... it's a good description of what's happening (i know this is HN, and anything with "feminist" causes a shitstorm, but really it's just a very careful first person account that tries to explain all sides, so please skip the title). but that was written before whatever happened today/last night.
- growupkids 13y ago
  Another brutal communist dictatorship. Why is it that some people think this one will somehow be different? It's always always always the same.

ChuckFrank 13y ago

Increasingly, I predict that we'll see more and more of these unreported incidents worldwide, especially as corporate media becomes more and more consolidated. Thankfully there are alternative news outlets that are available if you dig. Accurate or not. http://www.alternet.org/world/washington-tries-regime-change-venezuela http://www.alternet.org/world/washington-tries-regime-change... The lesson that this reinforces is that we can not rely on the media for the news. If ever we could.

BugBrother 13y ago
Well, any US conspiracies seems like a waste of money, since the Venezuelan government seems to do the impossible -- running an oil country into the ground. (But lots of people will be certain that all of that comes from more conspiracies from the US. :-) )
- slurry 13y ago
  > since the Venezuelan government seems to do the impossible -- running an oil country into the ground. Most oil countries are badly run; and whatever you think of Hugo Chavez and his party, Venezuela was already at least halfway into the ground before they came along, tbqfh.
  - BugBrother 13y ago
    Are there really other oil countries that have a hard time to even get credit? And then there are the large social problems? A command economy that kills local business might be common, but the size must be worse in Venezuela? Etc. To close the opposition media and using the TV is quite standard in places like that. But as much as in Venezuela? (Libya and possibly Iraq has problems from violence and Iran has sanctions. They are a bit special cases.)
- brc 13y ago
  I find it very depressing that socialism gets tried over and over again with the same predictable results. Power-mad but charismatic leader, wrecked national econonmy, widespread shortages of every day items, suppression of free media and free speech and finally the government murdering it's own citizens to suppress dissent. It's the same story over and over but people still seem to think 'this time it will be different'.

hudibras 13y ago

The AP has a story out now: http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2014/02/20/world/americas/ap-lt-venezuela-protests.html?ref=americas http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2014/02/20/world/americas/ap... EDIT: I googled to find the AP story, but I just now stumbled onto another article during my normal aimless coffee-break web surfing. So I think the story is picking up steam. http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/foreigners/2014/02/nicolas_maduro_s_venezuela_erupts_in_violence_the_venezuelan_president_appears.html http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/foreigners/2...

ChuckMcM 13y ago

The challenges here are threefold: 1) Trying to get reliable information out of a country. 2) Trying to figure out if it will drive "page views" or "viewership" or anything that pays the bills at the "media" center. 3) Creating a credible narrative around 'justice' in the face of massive injustice. That is why "global warming, you may die tomorrow" is a more important story than "far away government is repressing its own civilians." FWIW: The Economist has covered Venezuela (http://www.economist.com/search/gcs?ss=venezuela#masthead&gsc.tab=0&gsc.q=venezuela&gsc.page=1 http://www.economist.com/search/gcs?ss=venezuela#masthead&gs...) but even it doesn't provide breaking news coverage.

firstOrder 13y ago

> scan the press and find...Nothing. Ah the old, "there's a conspiracy to suppress what my side thinks in the news". Ten months ago, Maduro was elected president by the majority of the country. Some of the opposition tried to create this spectacle ten months in. The whole point of staging a big spectacle blocking highways etc., with some rioting, is to get world headlines. This has been happening in Venezuela for over 16 years. If the country was really anti-Maduro, it wouldn't have voted for him ten months ago. Also, it's not even like the opposition is united at all. It's completely factionalized, which is probably why it is out of power. It also reeks of that lazy, upper class, kind of slow and dumb Castillian Spanish aristocratic sense you sometimes find in Latin America. Like that man in the documentary "The Revolution will not be televised" who said "Watch your servants! They may be Chavistas!" Watch your servants, they may be Chavistas might as well be the slogan of the opposition. It's not something with much popular appeal, either in Venezuela, or even out.

scott_karana 13y ago
I'm not addressing your post, or the situation in Venezuela at all, but: > If the country was really anti-Maduro, it wouldn't have voted for him ten months ago Elections can be rigged. Votes can be bought. There always need to be more datapoints than just that.
- GFK_of_xmaspast 13y ago
  I can't fund much about the 2013 election, but Jimmy Carter had this to say about 2012: """ "As a matter of fact, of the 92 elections that we've monitored, I would say the election process in Venezuela is the best in the world," Mr. Carter said, noting the center's extensive work monitoring elections around the globe. """
  - neves 13y ago
    The reference: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/oct/03/why-us-dcemonises-venezuelas-democracy http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/oct/03/why-us-...

amjaeger 13y ago

What are the press companies outside of the USA saying? Are they just as disinterested?

daniel-cussen 13y ago
No, I just watched the news here in Chile on Tuesday and it was in the headlines. It was very well covered.
marcosdumay 13y ago
In Brazil there was some notice, deep on the international sections of the written papers. I don't know about television.
- oscargrouch 13y ago
  Brazil television is covering.. saying the opposition is in prison (for a bunch of fabricated crimes) and that there are shooting at people.. like the girl that was a beauty queen and was shot as a example.. in cable TV GloboNews there was a special today.. all about the protests.. with journalists from Brazil, there in Caracas.. didnt see it..
- fiatjaf 13y ago
  Are you seeing support to venezuelan protests from the same people who supported the brazilian protests in June?

hornytoad 13y ago

"International Media Is Asleep At the Switch", only this guy somehow manages to see the truth. Yeah, right. Interesting so many people on hn seem to be jumping on this. So I went back to his oldest blog entries to see what his general stance is and if his judgements merit consideration or are slanted, which can be better be judged with years of hindsight, judge for yourself: "To my mind Chávez’ hold on reality is so tenuous that he really does think that six million people poured onto the streets on April 13th to demand his return. And with a narcissist leader who’s that cut-off from reality, political miscalculation is the order of the day." He was hugely popular then, and stayed that way until his death, if polls, which actually have received praise from international observers, are an indication. Chavez not only had the absolute majority behind him, they actually supported him. Just compare Venezuela's voter turnout with that in your own country. Wikipedia says about Venezuela's 2012 election: "The elections showed a historically high turnout, above 80% of the electorate, in a country where voting is not mandatory"

fiatjaf 13y ago

The good question for me is: what would YOU do if this was happening in your city? What choices does the unorganized and disarmed people have against a massive State with an army and policemen?

crpatino 13y ago
Take pictures of the policemen while they are murdering/raping/ransacking. Be very careful that their faces show up as clearly as possible. Then print 100's of copies and drop them at their children's school, at their neighbors' mailboxes, at the church they attend and the gym where they train. Let them explain how a regular day at daddy's office looks like to the people they actually care about.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

unclebucknasty 13y ago

Just had an interesting thought when reading this article. What if tomorrow, something similar happened in the U.S.? That is, what if government "forces" swept into a major city or cities and began arresting people on suspicion of terrorism, then sweeping them off to unknown locations? Simultaneously, what if drone strikes were called in on other "suspects"? What in our current laws (or interpretation thereof) would prevent this or protect those who were targeted? The question may sound rhetorical or like hyperbole, but I mean this seriously: is a FISA court the only thing standing between us and such a potential reality?

SocratesV 13y ago

http://lab.org.uk/venezuela-–-student-protests http://lab.org.uk/venezuela-–-student-protests http://lab.org.uk/venezuela-violent-demonstrations-and-the-media http://lab.org.uk/venezuela-violent-demonstrations-and-the-m... Not claiming these are unbiased sources, because they aren't (especially the second link). But even so, they can provide a good balance regarding what most western media (NY Times, CNN, Guardian, etc) reports (and omits from those reports). Some more and again, don't claim they are unbiased, but it's good to balance the coverage and these say a lot that isn't said in other places): "What’s going on in Venezuela?" -- http://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/10381 http://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/10381 "Venezuelan Government Reiterates Calls For Dialogue With Opposition" - http://venezuelanalysis.com/news/10379 http://venezuelanalysis.com/news/10379 http://www.reddit.com/r/socialism/comments/1xt9pf/venezuela_rightwing_provokes_violence_in_timeworn/cfeevit http://www.reddit.com/r/socialism/comments/1xt9pf/venezuela_... And regarding the general situation (not current events necessarily: "Despite Shortages, Venezuelans Are Eating Better Statistics Say" - http://venezuelanalysis.com/news/7632 http://venezuelanalysis.com/news/7632 "The Pros and Cons of Venezuela's Currency Controls" - http://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/10317 http://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/10317 "Could smuggling be to blame for Venezuela's food shortages?" - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-23885377 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-23885377 (small examples: http://pastebin.com/BFHKHdCG http://pastebin.com/BFHKHdCG ) Regarding crime, read about the Policia Nacional Bolivariana, who controls the local polices, who is the Governor of the State of Miranda and which force controls most boroughs (Municipios) in Caracas and that in general, they refuse the that the Policia Nacional Bolivariana to act and prefer instead to keep their mostly corrupt police force (understand that they see it as another way for the Government to have more control, but the truth is the PNB reduces crime, you can read more here, but also other places - http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Americas/Latin-America-Monitor/2013/0215/How-does-Venezuela-s-police-reform-measure-up http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Americas/Latin-America-Monito...) Also, note that before Chavez, most foreign oil companies were paying 1-17% royalties, after 20-30% (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_policy_of_Venezuela#Development_of_energy_policies http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_policy_of_Venezuela#Deve...) and that most of the oil profits go into housing, social, education, security and infrastructure (power plants - fixed and movable -, roads, ports, railways). Just another thing, believe that according to Article 72 of the Venezuelan Constitution, after the middle of the Presidential mandate, if 20% of the voters sign a petition, recall elections are scheduled. This has happened in 2004. Not claiming there aren't any problems, there certainly are. Not claiming I'm a fan of the style the Government adopt, I'm not. However we've all seen in the past what happens to democratically elected Governments when they don't play ball with US companies, and Latin America knows this more than anyone (but also Iran back in the first independence days, before the Shah...). My thoughts to the innocents that are caught in the crossfire and have their peaceful demonstrations hijacked by extremists. Hopefully Venezuela can overcome all current issues, become a better country and not go back to the almost oligarchic past of poverty (which none of the wealthy opposition ever tried to change) but not become a dictatorship. In summary, a place where people of all political quadrants can live and let others live.