11 ms·

I donated $50, but I really wish US (and other countries) would reconsider their broken healthcare systems. My dad died of cancer a few years ago and I am reall

by amix 13y ago

I donated $50, but I really wish US (and other countries) would reconsider their broken healthcare systems. My dad died of cancer a few years ago and I am really glad we lived in Denmark when he got it - - with a great public healthcare system. He lived 2 years with his cancer, which is a lot when you are counting days. Not many normal people can afford these things (as each of my dads treatments cost about 20.000USD+ and he had a lot of them). Also, just yesterday DHH posted this: "Top income tax rate for California residents is 51.6%. Top for Danish residents is 51.7%. (Kicking at $500k+ vs $70K+, though)." Which puts things in perspective.

doktrin 13y ago
I donated $25, and feel the same way. The healthcare situation in the US is un-fucking-acceptable.
colechristensen 13y ago
I don't particularly see this as being a strong problem with American healthcare. You can buy health insurance to pay for any and all medical expenses. The healthcare system is broken if you do an honest day's work and can't afford insurance, but that's not what we're talking about here. There is a reason that most of the best hospitals in the world are American, and the way we fund our healthcare is that reason. Yes there are plenty of efficiencies to be improved, and much in the way of helping everyone access affordable care. However, you're never going to have Americans shifting away from exchanging dollars for doctors.
- doktrin 13y ago
  > The healthcare system is broken if you do an honest day's work and can't afford insurance, but that's not what we're talking about here. Isn't it, though? If you replace "insurance" with "appropriate medical care" that does in fact sound like what we're talking about. This individual was a programmer, who based on his blog only quit his job once he was physically unable to perform the duties required - and yet, is clearly unable to cover all his medical expenses. The system is broken. Anyone who says different is either delusional or selling something.
  - colechristensen 13y ago
    You can buy insurance which covers home health care and doesn't cost a cent after a deductible of a few thousand dollars. You can buy insurance which provides income if you can't work because of an illness... there are also several government programs that help the disabled. You can also save money for emergencies and not live in debt beyond your means your whole life as too many Americans do. Sometimes bad luck strikes and you'll need to ask for help from friends, family, and the community and there's no shame in that. If you get sick and can't work, is the health care system supposed to pay your mortgage too? The American system is based on choice, and Americans will not give up that choice no matter how many discussions are had calling the system broken. It is not a broken system in which a person with appropriate means choses risk over safety. If we were talking about people without the means to pay for insurance then this would be an entirely different discussion.
    - secstate 13y ago
      The problem with your Rand-esque proposal that if we all saved and lived below our means would be rolling in it, is that we don't all have the privilege of living in state or region that provides reasonable healthcare. Any guesses what a family policy with a $10,000 (?!) deductible goes for in Maine? $1,400. Say what? That's if you don't get insurance through your employer, which is becoming more rare everyday as insurance negotiations for employers gets stupid expensive everyday too. That's approaching 30% of my annual salary, and we'd have to pay up to $10,000 before anything kicks in. Oh, and routine medical visits aren't covered either, so that just encourages you to not see a doctor unless you really need to. Who honestly wants to drop $200 annually to have someone with 5 years of med school tell you you're fine, but could lose a little weight. The system is broken. If you're covered by insurance you have no right to speak to any of this. If you live in a state where individual policy pools are cost effective, you have no right to speak to any of this. The state of the matter is that the rest of the world has figured this out. And while there will always be challenges figuring out when $84,000 for open heart surgery on a 90 year old man is warranted, we can do better than right now. TLDR; Health care that's twice as expensive and general health that's not even in the top 25 in the world anymore. And no, people go to Thailand for really expensive experimental surgeries (done by American doctors, granted), these days.
- yscale 13y ago
  It saddens me that some people look at travesties like this and think "fuck him, the system is great, three cheers for the status quo." This despite the fact that any honest reading of our medical outcomes shows that America gets very average medical care, and that we pay about twice per capita what the best care in the world costs. I mean, I know there's a lot of propaganda out there, and I know there are a lot of sociopaths who are eager to believe it... but I'd think you'd keep your dishonest pro-status-quo, anti-efficiency nonsense out of a thread like this one. Especially since your post implies an utterly nonsensical (and clearly grossly uninformed) dichotomy that the only options are pure state control or the status quo, when any informed survey of developed nations would show many other models, some of which would work well in the US. Sadly, progress is stalled and we all suffer because there are obstructionist assholes like you, willing to ignorantly pretend that the status quo is the best in the world.
  - colechristensen 13y ago
    The top can get the best care for the right price, the bottom has been inadequately supported though much progress has been made with ACA, and lots of people in the middle are inadequately prepared, because given the choice, they choose a higher standard of living instead of more safety for the future. To be given that choice is engrained in a lot of American culture. You won't find much sympathy for the middle class who choose a nicer house in a more expensive city, a newer car, or a bigger family instead of safety and security for the future. Sure especially bad circumstances happen, and then you have the government, friends, and family to fall back on... and maybe some of these public services could be improved, but a significant positive change certainly has happened with the ACA. Progress isn't necessarily taking choice away from the population, because ultimately health care will cost the same whether you can choose your coverage or the government chooses it for you... if there are inefficiencies and cost problems, don't think that forcing everyone to have the same health coverage will fix them... there are plenty of other problems.
    - girvo 13y ago
      My god you're a privileged, elitist, self centred... calm, be calm. The fact that you keep posting this crap on a thread about some I look up to who is DYING OF BRAIN CANCER is really upsetting. So please stop.
- hawkharris 13y ago
  The healthcare system is broken if you do an honest day's work and can't afford insurance... A large segment of the United States falls in this category. In 2012, over 47 million non-elderly Americans were underinsured for health care: http://kff.org/uninsured/fact-sheet/key-facts-about-the-uninsured-population/ http://kff.org/uninsured/fact-sheet/key-facts-about-the-unin... Also in the report: "The majority of the uninsured are in low-income working families. Reflecting the more limited availability of public coverage, adults are more likely to be uninsured than children. People of color are at higher risk of being uninsured than non-Hispanic Whites."
- vacri 13y ago
  There is a reason that most of the best hospitals in the world are American Uh, do you have anything to back that up, apart from the standard assumption that "US is #1 at everything!"? And even if you had 10/10 top hospitals globally, overall average quality is a better metric than handpicked best-of-class examples.
  - colechristensen 13y ago
    If you have an especially difficult medical problem or you have the money and want the best possible care, your hospital of best choice is probably American. If you're talking about average medical conditions and the average outcomes... maybe not, but those statistics are usually about the medical systems as a whole which is much more difficult to compare in a country without universal health care.
    - vacri 13y ago
      If you have an especially difficult medical problem or you have the money and want the best possible care, your hospital of best choice is probably American. Again, do you have anything to back this up? My question isn't about there not being good hospitals in the US, but rather the assumption that the best ones in the world must be American. Also, I think you definitely mean "and" rather than "or" in that sentence. If you have a difficult medical problem and no money, then your best hospital is going to be one that will treat you rather than turn you away for having no money.
    - Myrmornis 13y ago
      Sounds like you might want to apply for your passport for the first time. Don't worry, it's common, lots of people in your country haven't been outside it.
- grecy 13y ago
  > The healthcare system isn't broken if you do an honest day's work... And how about all those people that can't work, because they're sick, or disabled, or mentally ill, or too young, or too old, or they just need 3 months think time to get their head in the right place. Too bad for those people, they're going to die.
- crag 13y ago
  "The healthcare system is broken if you do an honest day's work and can't afford insurance, but that's not what we're talking about here." But that IS what we are talking about here. Millions of americans do a hard days work and can't afford insurance. You know where they get their care now? At the country (public) hospital emergency room. Don't believe me? Go and have a look. Most of the people waiting in the waiting room are not emergencies. Their waiting for standard care. And they got no place else to go. And this impacts us all. As in property taxes going up to pay for the public hospitals. Oh wait.. don't tell me - we don't need public hospitals either right? I mean you got yours... fuck the rest right? Until you get sick and facing cymo treatments that cost $75,000 a pop. And your insurance company only covers 75% of the bill. Then you're complaining "where's my medicare disability?"
- tripzilch 13y ago
  > most of the best hospitals in the world are American Are they really? Citation?
overgard 13y ago
I donated $100, and yeah, our healthcare system is a goddamn travesty. I don't get it. If you're fortunate to live long enough, the one thing that's guaranteed to eventually happen is you're going to get sick in a very expensive manner. It's not an "if" question, it's a "when" question. I don't think that should mean financial ruin. People against universal healthcare must think they're just immune to ever getting sick or something.
- rch 13y ago
  I think a key feature of health insurance is that not everyone gets hit with 6 or 7 figure healthcare bills. It's because of that fact that we can and should do better as a society.
- ekianjo 13y ago
  > that's guaranteed to eventually happen is you're going to get sick in a very expensive manner. Wrong, there's still a large part of the population who will end up dying of what we call "natural causes" such as Heart attacks and stuff like that. These are very inexpensive, because you don't see them coming, usually. So, no, not everyone on Earth dies from Cancer.
  - d23 13y ago
    > Wrong, there's still a large part of the population who will end up dying of what we call "natural causes" such as Heart attacks and stuff like that. These are very inexpensive Oh nice, they should put that on the brochure.
  - xeroxmalf 13y ago
    Though some heart attacks are "natural causes" many could actually be prevented[0] if the patient had access to specialists and testing. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diseases_of_poverty#Cardiovascular_disease https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diseases_of_poverty#Cardiovasc...
  - overgard 13y ago
    That's why I qualified it with "if you're lucky to live long enough". So, yeah, you might be lucky enough to unexpectedly drop dead before some other scourge takes you However if you don't happen to fortune into a sudden unexpected death, your body will inevitably decay to the point that you will become a large financial and emotional burden on someone. (Or die homeless and friendless). But we can't take care of those people, cuz socialism! They should have had the common courtesy to just hurry up and die.
pbharrin 13y ago
I don't understand, I thought the AFA (Obamacare) won and all those curmudgeons fought it all the way to the Supreme Court and lost and we now have healthcare for everyone. What am I missing? Why does this gentlemen have to loose his house to get medical treatment if healthcare is affordable?
- ewoodrich 13y ago
  I can't tell if this is snark or not, but the "ACA" does provide subsidies on a sliding scale based on income, however, I can't comment on his situation. More likely though, it would be Medicaid, not subsidized private insurance at lower incomes, and the ACA expanded eligibility to 125% of the poverty level. But single-payer it is not. (edit: Medicaid is very limited in recurring residential care and support, so this potentially be a contributing factor).
piratebroadcast 13y ago
My mom just got diagnosed with extensive small cell lung cancer (thats spread to her brain) and I am fucking terrified about whats going to happen to us financially. I can't even focus completely on my mother as a person because I'm wondering about the bills, then I feel bad for worrying. It fucking sucks.
- benched 13y ago
  Very sorry. Speaking from experience, this is exactly how it is. When there's a serious medical situation, the focus is necessarily on the bills. They even send you separate envelopes for every little line item and provider, staggered over time, even more than a year after the service, so you can never stop thinking about it. Always fearing opening the mailbox, having to deal with confusing hard to reconcile charges, trying to catch double-billing, dealing with payments to multiple providers. The stress of the bills can easily make the illness worse. The US is truly a barbaric system. But it has this small bubble of well-off people, who have a disproportionate platform for their propaganda, so you can get this public picture that everything is great. Everyone beams smiles in the commercials, consuming the miracle products. The well-off only associate with others who are well-off, so they can pat each other on the back and say "What a country! All this opportunity for those with the right sort of character, like us!"
  - lotharbot 13y ago
    > "you can get this public picture that everything is great" I'm not aware of anyone, from any political background, who thinks the US system is anything above "pretty crappy". I've heard some people express positive sentiments regarding small parts of the system -- the quality of certain types of care, for example -- but never for the system as a whole. The primary disagreements I'm aware of concern how to fix the current worst-of-both-worlds system. Do we put it entirely in government hands? Do we enact more regulations to try to force down costs? Do we remove or relax regulations that appear to drive up costs? How do we create transparency in pricing? How do we respond to innovative groups like Qliance? How should we balance the role of government, individuals, families, employers, and charity in health care? Do not mistake disagreement on how to answer those questions as support for the current system.
jagtesh 13y ago
While I could only donate $50, I feel everything you said is absolutely true. We must learn to live within our means and be content with a less materialistic (higher quality of) life. Universal healthcare makes this a reality. Not having to worry about increasing premiums as one gets older is a reason in itself to justify for higher taxes that come with it. We need to educate the youth to start thinking about life holistically and not just in terms of vacations and latest toys.

by amix 13y ago

doktrin 13y ago

I donated $25, and feel the same way. The healthcare situation in the US is un-fucking-acceptable.

colechristensen 13y ago

I don't particularly see this as being a strong problem with American healthcare. You can buy health insurance to pay for any and all medical expenses. The healthcare system is broken if you do an honest day's work and can't afford insurance, but that's not what we're talking about here. There is a reason that most of the best hospitals in the world are American, and the way we fund our healthcare is that reason. Yes there are plenty of efficiencies to be improved, and much in the way of helping everyone access affordable care. However, you're never going to have Americans shifting away from exchanging dollars for doctors.

doktrin 13y ago
> The healthcare system is broken if you do an honest day's work and can't afford insurance, but that's not what we're talking about here. Isn't it, though? If you replace "insurance" with "appropriate medical care" that does in fact sound like what we're talking about. This individual was a programmer, who based on his blog only quit his job once he was physically unable to perform the duties required - and yet, is clearly unable to cover all his medical expenses. The system is broken. Anyone who says different is either delusional or selling something.
- colechristensen 13y ago
  You can buy insurance which covers home health care and doesn't cost a cent after a deductible of a few thousand dollars. You can buy insurance which provides income if you can't work because of an illness... there are also several government programs that help the disabled. You can also save money for emergencies and not live in debt beyond your means your whole life as too many Americans do. Sometimes bad luck strikes and you'll need to ask for help from friends, family, and the community and there's no shame in that. If you get sick and can't work, is the health care system supposed to pay your mortgage too? The American system is based on choice, and Americans will not give up that choice no matter how many discussions are had calling the system broken. It is not a broken system in which a person with appropriate means choses risk over safety. If we were talking about people without the means to pay for insurance then this would be an entirely different discussion.
  - secstate 13y ago
    The problem with your Rand-esque proposal that if we all saved and lived below our means would be rolling in it, is that we don't all have the privilege of living in state or region that provides reasonable healthcare. Any guesses what a family policy with a $10,000 (?!) deductible goes for in Maine? $1,400. Say what? That's if you don't get insurance through your employer, which is becoming more rare everyday as insurance negotiations for employers gets stupid expensive everyday too. That's approaching 30% of my annual salary, and we'd have to pay up to $10,000 before anything kicks in. Oh, and routine medical visits aren't covered either, so that just encourages you to not see a doctor unless you really need to. Who honestly wants to drop $200 annually to have someone with 5 years of med school tell you you're fine, but could lose a little weight. The system is broken. If you're covered by insurance you have no right to speak to any of this. If you live in a state where individual policy pools are cost effective, you have no right to speak to any of this. The state of the matter is that the rest of the world has figured this out. And while there will always be challenges figuring out when $84,000 for open heart surgery on a 90 year old man is warranted, we can do better than right now. TLDR; Health care that's twice as expensive and general health that's not even in the top 25 in the world anymore. And no, people go to Thailand for really expensive experimental surgeries (done by American doctors, granted), these days.
yscale 13y ago
It saddens me that some people look at travesties like this and think "fuck him, the system is great, three cheers for the status quo." This despite the fact that any honest reading of our medical outcomes shows that America gets very average medical care, and that we pay about twice per capita what the best care in the world costs. I mean, I know there's a lot of propaganda out there, and I know there are a lot of sociopaths who are eager to believe it... but I'd think you'd keep your dishonest pro-status-quo, anti-efficiency nonsense out of a thread like this one. Especially since your post implies an utterly nonsensical (and clearly grossly uninformed) dichotomy that the only options are pure state control or the status quo, when any informed survey of developed nations would show many other models, some of which would work well in the US. Sadly, progress is stalled and we all suffer because there are obstructionist assholes like you, willing to ignorantly pretend that the status quo is the best in the world.
- colechristensen 13y ago
  The top can get the best care for the right price, the bottom has been inadequately supported though much progress has been made with ACA, and lots of people in the middle are inadequately prepared, because given the choice, they choose a higher standard of living instead of more safety for the future. To be given that choice is engrained in a lot of American culture. You won't find much sympathy for the middle class who choose a nicer house in a more expensive city, a newer car, or a bigger family instead of safety and security for the future. Sure especially bad circumstances happen, and then you have the government, friends, and family to fall back on... and maybe some of these public services could be improved, but a significant positive change certainly has happened with the ACA. Progress isn't necessarily taking choice away from the population, because ultimately health care will cost the same whether you can choose your coverage or the government chooses it for you... if there are inefficiencies and cost problems, don't think that forcing everyone to have the same health coverage will fix them... there are plenty of other problems.
  - girvo 13y ago
    My god you're a privileged, elitist, self centred... calm, be calm. The fact that you keep posting this crap on a thread about some I look up to who is DYING OF BRAIN CANCER is really upsetting. So please stop.
hawkharris 13y ago
The healthcare system is broken if you do an honest day's work and can't afford insurance... A large segment of the United States falls in this category. In 2012, over 47 million non-elderly Americans were underinsured for health care: http://kff.org/uninsured/fact-sheet/key-facts-about-the-uninsured-population/ http://kff.org/uninsured/fact-sheet/key-facts-about-the-unin... Also in the report: "The majority of the uninsured are in low-income working families. Reflecting the more limited availability of public coverage, adults are more likely to be uninsured than children. People of color are at higher risk of being uninsured than non-Hispanic Whites."
vacri 13y ago
There is a reason that most of the best hospitals in the world are American Uh, do you have anything to back that up, apart from the standard assumption that "US is #1 at everything!"? And even if you had 10/10 top hospitals globally, overall average quality is a better metric than handpicked best-of-class examples.
- colechristensen 13y ago
  If you have an especially difficult medical problem or you have the money and want the best possible care, your hospital of best choice is probably American. If you're talking about average medical conditions and the average outcomes... maybe not, but those statistics are usually about the medical systems as a whole which is much more difficult to compare in a country without universal health care.
  - vacri 13y ago
    If you have an especially difficult medical problem or you have the money and want the best possible care, your hospital of best choice is probably American. Again, do you have anything to back this up? My question isn't about there not being good hospitals in the US, but rather the assumption that the best ones in the world must be American. Also, I think you definitely mean "and" rather than "or" in that sentence. If you have a difficult medical problem and no money, then your best hospital is going to be one that will treat you rather than turn you away for having no money.
  - Myrmornis 13y ago
    Sounds like you might want to apply for your passport for the first time. Don't worry, it's common, lots of people in your country haven't been outside it.
grecy 13y ago
> The healthcare system isn't broken if you do an honest day's work... And how about all those people that can't work, because they're sick, or disabled, or mentally ill, or too young, or too old, or they just need 3 months think time to get their head in the right place. Too bad for those people, they're going to die.
crag 13y ago
"The healthcare system is broken if you do an honest day's work and can't afford insurance, but that's not what we're talking about here." But that IS what we are talking about here. Millions of americans do a hard days work and can't afford insurance. You know where they get their care now? At the country (public) hospital emergency room. Don't believe me? Go and have a look. Most of the people waiting in the waiting room are not emergencies. Their waiting for standard care. And they got no place else to go. And this impacts us all. As in property taxes going up to pay for the public hospitals. Oh wait.. don't tell me - we don't need public hospitals either right? I mean you got yours... fuck the rest right? Until you get sick and facing cymo treatments that cost $75,000 a pop. And your insurance company only covers 75% of the bill. Then you're complaining "where's my medicare disability?"
tripzilch 13y ago
> most of the best hospitals in the world are American Are they really? Citation?

overgard 13y ago

I donated $100, and yeah, our healthcare system is a goddamn travesty. I don't get it. If you're fortunate to live long enough, the one thing that's guaranteed to eventually happen is you're going to get sick in a very expensive manner. It's not an "if" question, it's a "when" question. I don't think that should mean financial ruin. People against universal healthcare must think they're just immune to ever getting sick or something.

rch 13y ago
I think a key feature of health insurance is that not everyone gets hit with 6 or 7 figure healthcare bills. It's because of that fact that we can and should do better as a society.
ekianjo 13y ago
> that's guaranteed to eventually happen is you're going to get sick in a very expensive manner. Wrong, there's still a large part of the population who will end up dying of what we call "natural causes" such as Heart attacks and stuff like that. These are very inexpensive, because you don't see them coming, usually. So, no, not everyone on Earth dies from Cancer.
- d23 13y ago
  > Wrong, there's still a large part of the population who will end up dying of what we call "natural causes" such as Heart attacks and stuff like that. These are very inexpensive Oh nice, they should put that on the brochure.
- xeroxmalf 13y ago
  Though some heart attacks are "natural causes" many could actually be prevented[0] if the patient had access to specialists and testing. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diseases_of_poverty#Cardiovascular_disease https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diseases_of_poverty#Cardiovasc...
- overgard 13y ago
  That's why I qualified it with "if you're lucky to live long enough". So, yeah, you might be lucky enough to unexpectedly drop dead before some other scourge takes you However if you don't happen to fortune into a sudden unexpected death, your body will inevitably decay to the point that you will become a large financial and emotional burden on someone. (Or die homeless and friendless). But we can't take care of those people, cuz socialism! They should have had the common courtesy to just hurry up and die.

pbharrin 13y ago

I don't understand, I thought the AFA (Obamacare) won and all those curmudgeons fought it all the way to the Supreme Court and lost and we now have healthcare for everyone. What am I missing? Why does this gentlemen have to loose his house to get medical treatment if healthcare is affordable?

ewoodrich 13y ago
I can't tell if this is snark or not, but the "ACA" does provide subsidies on a sliding scale based on income, however, I can't comment on his situation. More likely though, it would be Medicaid, not subsidized private insurance at lower incomes, and the ACA expanded eligibility to 125% of the poverty level. But single-payer it is not. (edit: Medicaid is very limited in recurring residential care and support, so this potentially be a contributing factor).

piratebroadcast 13y ago

My mom just got diagnosed with extensive small cell lung cancer (thats spread to her brain) and I am fucking terrified about whats going to happen to us financially. I can't even focus completely on my mother as a person because I'm wondering about the bills, then I feel bad for worrying. It fucking sucks.

benched 13y ago
Very sorry. Speaking from experience, this is exactly how it is. When there's a serious medical situation, the focus is necessarily on the bills. They even send you separate envelopes for every little line item and provider, staggered over time, even more than a year after the service, so you can never stop thinking about it. Always fearing opening the mailbox, having to deal with confusing hard to reconcile charges, trying to catch double-billing, dealing with payments to multiple providers. The stress of the bills can easily make the illness worse. The US is truly a barbaric system. But it has this small bubble of well-off people, who have a disproportionate platform for their propaganda, so you can get this public picture that everything is great. Everyone beams smiles in the commercials, consuming the miracle products. The well-off only associate with others who are well-off, so they can pat each other on the back and say "What a country! All this opportunity for those with the right sort of character, like us!"
- lotharbot 13y ago
  > "you can get this public picture that everything is great" I'm not aware of anyone, from any political background, who thinks the US system is anything above "pretty crappy". I've heard some people express positive sentiments regarding small parts of the system -- the quality of certain types of care, for example -- but never for the system as a whole. The primary disagreements I'm aware of concern how to fix the current worst-of-both-worlds system. Do we put it entirely in government hands? Do we enact more regulations to try to force down costs? Do we remove or relax regulations that appear to drive up costs? How do we create transparency in pricing? How do we respond to innovative groups like Qliance? How should we balance the role of government, individuals, families, employers, and charity in health care? Do not mistake disagreement on how to answer those questions as support for the current system.

jagtesh 13y ago

While I could only donate $50, I feel everything you said is absolutely true. We must learn to live within our means and be content with a less materialistic (higher quality of) life. Universal healthcare makes this a reality. Not having to worry about increasing premiums as one gets older is a reason in itself to justify for higher taxes that come with it. We need to educate the youth to start thinking about life holistically and not just in terms of vacations and latest toys.