10 ms·

Microsoft please clean your store of junk

346 points by sardorbek 13y ago

jaunkst 13y ago
Do we really want another crappy mobile browser and platform to support? We don't need them in mobile space anyways. I don't see a future in Microsoft mobile devices. They really missed the mark while everyone else is on their 4th lap of the race.
frigg 13y ago
Yeah, this is obviously a problem but let's not ignore the other elephant in the room. Here's a search for facebook* on google play. The only reason this post about Microsoft made it to the front page of HN is because of a negative thing about the Windows Phone store. And please don't tell me HN moderators don't remove posts about Microsoft, I just asked something about WP8 a few days ago and within 10 minutes it was removed. Others have complained about it as well. I wish HN would stop being so damn biased. https://play.google.com/store/search?q=facebook&c=apps https://play.google.com/store/search?q=facebook&c=apps
- mratzloff 13y ago
  Yes, the Google Play store has heaps of garbage apps as well (and worse), but at least other apps aren't permitted to directly copy and use Facebook's app icon, making their app indistinguishable from the official one.
  - ansible 13y ago
    And the Facebook app is written by Facebook. And it is the first one. So even on the basic search page, it is easy to figure out which one is the official one. That's not to say the Play store doesn't drive me to distraction sometimes... I recently had to look at over a dozen flashlight apps to find one or two that weren't spamming me with ads and looking at my personal information.
- ansimionescu 13y ago
  Idea: a "premium" flag/badge set by human curators (GOOG/AAPL/MSFT employees). Then add an easy way of toggling "premium" searches, and voila, no more trash. PS: Here's the Mac App Store 'Facebook' search: http://i.imgur.com/8o8mveb.png http://i.imgur.com/8o8mveb.png
  - tveita 13y ago
    The Google play store already has "top developer" and "editor's choice" badges that show up in search results. About your screenshot - maybe I'm missing something, but where in the results is the official Facebook app? Do they hide already installed apps?
- aragot 13y ago
  > I just asked something about WP8 a few days ago and within 10 minutes it was removed I can't speak for others, but for me the Microsoft dominance has been a pain until I started mastering Linux. I am very happy if it is confirmed that HN actively removes links about Microsoft, just as a cold personal feeling of street justice. So it's not HN, it's the crowd of geeks. On the other hand I don't see why HN would do that. Sounds like a loss of time and a PR risk. Maybe your content was average quality, maybe it wasn't cool enough, maybe it contained inappropriate contents. Please refer to the guidelines [1] to check whether your content had a chance to survive. [1] http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- hamburglar 13y ago
  I didn't see a single app in those search results that anyone would actually confuse for the real Facebook app. There are several which use obviously-modified versions of the Facebook app icon to indicate that they're like the Facebook app but somehow different, but none that seem to be actually claiming to be Facebook. Contrast with the windows store, where the first 12 results are all fake Facebook apps, and they don't even show you the publisher name, so there's literally no way to distinguish which one is the correct one.
- lawnchair_larry 13y ago
  Why would moderators remove a post because it mentions Microsoft? That doesn't make sense.
mcormier 13y ago
As much as Apple's review process and curating can be a pain in the ass. This definitely shows the other end of the spectrum and what happens if you don't have any reviewing.
- lostcolony 13y ago
  I'm not sure anyone objects to curating, per se, more the fact that Apple isn't transparent, fair, or consistent about what causes an app to be rejected.
  - Pxtl 13y ago
    Also, the fact that the curated store is the only way to get your software onto their device. If Best Buy doesn't want to sell my PC software, I can sell it through other channels. If Apple doesn't want to sell my iOS software, I can't. Android lets you sell stuff outside of the play store - look how well the Humble Android bundles do.
  - gfodor 13y ago
    selection bias. we of course inevitably hear about the cases where Apple is not fair or acts inconsistently. but we do not hear about the vast majority of cases where they either allow apps in the store immediately or work through the issues with the developer so the app is compliant with the rules.
- gjulianm 13y ago
  Microsoft has a reviewing process for the WP Store. They don't enforce a "this is another FB web wrapper so it's not allowed" kind of rule, but the rules in place for quality and stability are pretty strict.
  - leobelle 13y ago
    It's weird that Microsoft apparently doesn't give a shit about trademarks or IP in their app store admissions reviews. That seems like it would make them liable if they actually manually give these apps a pass.
legulere 13y ago
Sounds like cases where the owners of the trademarks (Faceboook, Google and Mozilla) should get active.
- sardorbek 13y ago
  It was news regarding Facebook apps 2-3 month ago, that Microsoft will remove them all. As you can see its not done :(
- chuable 13y ago
  They (well, in this case Facebook) did request it: http://www.wpcentral.com/facebook-windows-phone-store-trademark-infringement http://www.wpcentral.com/facebook-windows-phone-store-tradem...
- MichaelGG 13y ago
  They might, but Microsoft should be far more proactive in cleaning up this crap. Even apart from the big name trademark infringement, most apps are total and utter junk. It's hilariously bad. MS should at least have some sort of search filter to say "please only show apps that have been reviewed by a human or two and are not obvious crap".
rossjudson 13y ago
The root problem here is the single storefront exhibited in each of the major device universes: Apple Store, Microsoft Store, etc...a permanent solution to the problem is simple. Create a series of storefronts that are tiered. You can get almost anything into the dollar store equivalent. And then you have to apply to move into the higher tier, or a focused tier. It should cost money to do so -- which could be paid back out of sales at the new tier. Physical stores have buyers who inspect products, negotiate, and select. App stores need to the same thing. It's been a long time since I've bought anything on an app store. There's just way too much crap to wade through, making it a waste of time.
- troymc 13y ago
  Maybe Microsoft thought WP owners would give the bad apps bad reviews, so that the best app would rise to the top? I suppose if I wanted the real Facebook app for Windows Phone, I'd just go to Google and search for: site:facebook.com app "windows phone" Most people aren't going to do that though.
  - teamonkey 13y ago
    There's a lot of fake review spam. It's pretty blatant too.
adjwilli 13y ago
A friend and I published some apps on the Microsoft store a few years ago, when it was still for Windows Phone 7. We've received several emails from Microsoft saying we need to update this and that or our apps will be removed. Because the apps never did that well - not surprisingly in hindsight given the market size - we never updated them. However we still get checks occasionally from the proceeds. Microsoft never removed them. I think they're just desperate to have apps in their store and inflated app numbers they can brag about. They obviously know what to do, but just aren't doing it.
- TheAnimus 13y ago
  I think people have made a mistake bragging about 'app store numbers'. When Windows Phone 7 first came along, a lot of the tech press liked to simply score the platforms by the number of apps. Microsoft originally were pretty hot at stopping the 'free' or 'light' versions of apps being entered, as anything on their store can have a trail mode. From a usability perspective this is just great. However people would compare the app count against android, not discounting the android apps that were just trails etc. So sadly, as long as people keep talking about app count, it is not in the interest of MS to cleanse it.
  - johnchristopher 13y ago
    I followed you until you shifted the blame from the tech press to consumers.
    - pogden 13y ago
      Consumers were not mentioned in the comment. The last sentence talks about "people" which in context means members of the tech press.
      - johnchristopher 13y ago
        Hmm. Maybe I am wrong. I think it's not that obvious though. "People" used in a topic where the "press" is mentioned clearly means !press* to me. Maybe the author could clarify if he sees my comment ? * not part of the press
Geee 13y ago
Microsoft truly never ceases to amaze me. Good reminder of why I hate them. I was almost starting to believe that WP is actually quite good.
- sardorbek 13y ago
  I love Microsoft, and their technologies. I love Windows Phone. I am just not happy with the apps in the store. I recommend you Windows Phone :)
  - raverbashing 13y ago
    If downloading an app in WP is as good as downloading an App in Windows (last time I did this I felt like I was cleaning a septic tank with my bare hands) then there are no advantages at verticalization. MS has cost me a lot in time and money, and this is something I try to avoid.
  - Geee 13y ago
    Have you tried purchasing Windows 8 online? That's another experience altogether. I did that. It took 2 hours to make the purchase, with their horribly buggy store that doesn't even allow removing items from the shopping cart (had to clear cookies). It also requires Silverlight, which also crashes during the payment verification. It cost me $199 and all I got was Windows_installer.exe, what a horrible joke. Well, let's try to get my hands on a Windows machine and proceed to generate installable boot image from the downloaded files. That went quite well, but I was furious at this point. Ok, let's install and boot into my fresh Windows 8. That went fine. Next, let's try to activate it, and it says: 'This product key can only be used for Windows updates'. Microsoft, are you kidding me? At that point I decided that I won't ever touch any Microsoft products even with a ten foot pole. I don't trust them, they are liars, and their products suck. Microsoft will not improve. Look at that page: http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/pdp/Windows-8-Pro/productID.257987100 http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/pdp/Windows-... Then tell me how that is not lying to your customers? The information that this product is just an update from existing Windows installation is at the bottom of the page, no one reads that!
vtbassmatt 13y ago
At a glance, Google Play appears to have similar levels of app-spam for Facebook [0], Chrome [1], and Firefox [2]. The iTunes Store, on the other hand, seems quite sanitary for these queries. Just 1-2 potentially-junk "browsers", and nothing bogus for Facebook. Disclosure: I work for Microsoft, but not in the Windows Phone division. [0] https://play.google.com/store/search?q=facebook&c=apps https://play.google.com/store/search?q=facebook&c=apps [1] https://play.google.com/store/search?q=chrome&c=apps https://play.google.com/store/search?q=chrome&c=apps [2] https://play.google.com/store/search?q=firefox&c=apps https://play.google.com/store/search?q=firefox&c=apps
- leobelle 13y ago
  Uh, in no way shape or form are those results the same as the screenshots for the Windows App store. I don't see a single result where an official name is used to fake being the real thing. It looks like only the official apps have the official name and the other things are just add ons or silly, small value additions to Facebook, Chrome, or Firefox. Having said that, that is a shit load of low quality crap, but all app stores have junk like that including the iOS app store.
  - edj 13y ago
    Uh, in no way shape or form are those results the same as the screenshots for the Windows App store. I don't see a single result where an official name is used to fake being the real thing. I agree that the Windows App Store examples are way more egregious, but some of the apps in the Google store are nearly as bad. Top right among the Facebook examples is especially deceptive. https://play.google.com/store/search?q=facebook&c=apps https://play.google.com/store/search?q=facebook&c=apps
    - potatolicious 13y ago
      The key difference here (and this is true on Apple's App Store also) is that the publisher name is directly under the app name. Users in general are aware that there are many scam/fake/imitator apps out there, but the publisher name provides a quick way of verifying the legitimacy of an app. Compare that with the Windows Store screenshot where there's literally no way to tell which is the real one. The existence of this problem is shitty, absolutely, but on Android and iOS there exist viable, discoverable workarounds. On Windows Store...
level09 13y ago
They probably need some smart ranking/popularity algorithm. Apple's app store has a lot of junk as well, but somehow they manage to sort them in a good way.
sidcool 13y ago
if they removed the apps, their app stats would really fk up.
cordite 13y ago
An evangelist came to my university to try to get the students to make apps. They just wanted to boost their numbers artificially, and they were willing to pay hundreds to students for making these crappy things.
- lclarkmichalek 13y ago
  Similar experiences here. Our bog standard "write an Android application for an external client" had the strange requirement of "port to Windows 8 Phone" attached to it.
- maaaats 13y ago
  I have had events like that from all kind of companies, nothing unique about this, and it's certainly not about boosting their numbers. It's about getting students to learn their technologies and then use them later. Blackberry recently paid developers to port apps to their platform. Is that "artificially boosting their numbers", or just smart marketing? I don't see any problems with this.
  - eropple 13y ago
    When they literally don't care what the app is (paying a developer $100 for a flashlight app), yeah, it doesn't speak well of their desires to serve their users.
- rbanffy 13y ago
  I went to a congress, last year, I think, and Microsoft and Nokia representatives came on stage to announce that for every Windows Phone app they got on the store (and they had an expedite process going on during the event), they'd gift a Nokia phone. For many it wasn't clear it would be a Nokia Asha phone, but, still, they got a crapload of young students writing apps for them.
pioul 13y ago
Another related issue I've been having with the WP Store as a developer: I made a WP7 app a while back to give a try, based on a site's API that has since been discontinued. Obviously, the app doesn't work anymore, since it was focused on content consumption from that API. But since then, my developer license has expired. Even though I need to remove the app (somehow new users keep coming), the WP Store won't allow me to do so without an active developer license. Too bad for the fooled users, I guess.
300bps 13y ago
A year ago, Microsoft needed to do this to inflate their app numbers because there were much fewer apps in the Windows Phone store. But now I'm actually shocked how many apps/games are available on Windows Phone. Jetpack Joyride, Subway Surfers, Minion Rush are three popular games on other platforms that I recently installed for my youngest son while at my older son's basketball game recently. ...and as a former 6 year user of iPhones, the "Kids Corner" that is on Windows Phone totally separates kid-approved activities (games) from non-kid-approved activities (my email, twitter, facebook, etc). That feature alone is worth upgrading to Windows Phone if you have kids that occasionally use your phone.
johsoe 13y ago
This slightly angers me coming from several attempts to upload legit WP8 apps. Privacy policies not being "good" enough, no location tracking switch in a "location aware" app, little to no experiences from other developers(typical stackoverflow trouble shooting becoming impossible), worse app approval process than Apple.. the list goes on. This being in a platform which they're trying to push. :(
- teamonkey 13y ago
  Call me crazy, but I WANT the privacy policy and to be able to switch off location services if I don't trust your app. I'm glad they have these policies in place. There are a lot of things to complain about the Windows Store but from a consumer's point of view that's not one if them.
higherpurpose 13y ago
Yes, but then how would they be able to mislead people into thinking their platform has a lot of apps, too?
kispester 13y ago
It's not about quantity. It's about quality. And every big player is trying to crush Windows Phone platform. Google is so ridiculous that they're willing to lose big money by not making its glorified ad service on the platform. Google made Youtube and pulled back, Google search on WP is ridiculous. Not even Maps, which has great social network potential, much more than Youtube.
- raptormissle 13y ago
  It's ridiculous that you think that "Google is so ridiculous that they're willing to lose big money by not making its glorified ad service on the platform." On the contrary, Google is brilliant by not wasting their time and money on an irrelevant platform that has no hope for success and market share adoption.
GeneralMayhem 13y ago
So why hasn't Facebook taken them to the cleaners for IP and brand damage?
- troymc 13y ago
  or trademark infringement. Maybe the offending WP app makers are in a legal jurisdiction beyond Facebook's reach?
  - GeneralMayhem 13y ago
    Doesn't matter, they should be able to DMCA the hell out of MS.
    - troymc 13y ago
      I thought the DMCA was about copyrights, not trademarks.
vmarsy 13y ago
The best way to get good apps on a Windows phone is to get an app (developed by Microsoft!) that warns you when new & popular apps are here. The fact that this app exists tells there's a problem with the Windows store search. But as the OP says, they're also plenty of good quality apps: from small tools like the Bill reminder, or non-shady flashlights apps which doesn't require an Internet connection and your phonebook address, to an official GTA San Andreas.
sifarat 13y ago
had they been smart enough, perhaps the company would have been in better share than it is today, in regard to smartphone warfare.
ecesena 13y ago
+1! We recently released a Windows 8 app [1], categorized as news, pretty cool I'd modestly say... but if you search for "news" it takes 10 pages of horizontal scroll to find Theneeds... and most of the app out there are really poor (I'd modestly say :) [1] http://www.theneeds.com/p/win8 http://www.theneeds.com/p/win8
Eeko 13y ago
The funny thing is, that these days the simple 3rd party "fake" and costly clients are often superior against the official apps. Less leaking location, address books, text messages and usage patterns, please.
donniefitz2 13y ago
I recently switched to WP and was surprised at the low quality apps. But, for me it's a good thing because it presents an opportunity for me, as a dev, to create quality apps. Microsoft really does need to clean house in the store.
aegiso 13y ago
1. New platform with not many apps 2. Gotta play Apple's game and tout the app count 3. Devs plz more apps kthxbye; don't worry about quality -- we'll look the other way and hose down criticism with excuses 4. Consumers see how desolate, harsh, and unusable the whole ecosystem is -- further rerouting them to Apple 5. Goto 1, with more gusto and a new reorg
- nirnira 13y ago
  It's just pathetic how dumb they are.
ssully 13y ago
As others have said they like having these crap apps for the number count. Last summer Microsoft had a developer promotion where they would give you 100 dollars per successfully submitted app. You could submit 10 for the regular store, and 10 for the phone store, so you could get 2000 total. The reason I even knew this was because a Microsoft rep came to my school to promote it. He did a workshop that basically taught us how to submit apps to the windows store. Part of the process was making a boilerplate app that we used a third party application to make. The entire class, about 20 students, made similar "whack a mole" game apps, all of which successfully submitted. We all got 100 dollars and all of our apps are still in the store. http://apps.microsoft.com/windows/en-us/app/rat-smash/ea0e989d-21ef-442e-b62b-757d31317071 http://apps.microsoft.com/windows/en-us/app/rat-smash/ea0e98... Go ahead and check it out; I promise it's as horrible as it looks.
- CoryG89 13y ago
  Yeah, my buddy was the MS campus rep for the CSSE dept. at my university. Some if the guys were building lots of really quick do nothing apps to get cash. Microsoft was trying desperately to just fill its store with as many apps as possible as quickly as it could. I put one HTML5 peg game that I had built with Kinetic.JS together as a WinJS app and got a quick $100. I didn't want to put out ten crappy apps with my name attached to them though.
- dredmorbius 13y ago
  they like having these crap apps for the number count. Which is a very strong argument for not using idiotic performance metrics (the app count is almost certainly built into multiple levels of policy goals at MSFT). Or, as I like to say: be careful of what you incent for. You will get it.
  - lostlogin 13y ago
    Market share is another metric like this in my opinion. The local newspaper owns its market completely. I bet advertisers get given all sorts of impressive stats. I bet they count me and both my neighbours as readers, despite all three copies going from the letterbox, up the drive and into the recycling bin (or the fire in winter).
wdr1 13y ago
Microsoft likes to bring out the number of apps in their store, especially so it looks competitive to the Apple App store. Unfortunately, cleaning junk out of the store is counter to that goal.
analog31 13y ago
Oddly enough, there's at least a dozen Hacker News apps at the Android store. Granted, there is no "official" HN app, so these aren't fakes of anything. I decided that the last thing I need is HN burning a hole in my pocket all day long when I should be working.
contextfree 13y ago
# of apps as a metric is like # of lines of code - it ought to be "booked on the other side of the ledger" ( http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/transcriptions/EWD05xx/EWD513.html http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/transcriptions/EWD05xx/EW... )
nirnira 13y ago
Anyone who's owned a Windows Phone already knows this. Search for anything. Doesn't matter what it is. No matter what you search for, you'll get pages of results - of the worst apps you have ever seen. Absolute trash. It's disgusting. It makes me never want to use their app store. The fact that they not only condone it, they actively encouraged it just makes me sick. How insecure are they? How stupid are they? Do they really think the best way to cover their insecurity about being 3rd place is with bluster and bullshit? Do they really think their customers are that stupid? Whatever happened to the old philosophy of competing by trying to build clear, demonstrable superiority - a better product? It's mind-boggling. From which point in the organisation does this insanity stem? I want to like Microsoft, but shit like this makes me feel like a fool for ever giving them a chance. Seriously. Good thing my next phone is a Nexus... great job Microsoft. Way to build loyalty among your customers. And Steve Ballmer has the nerve to call MS "ethical" and "forward-thinking." Anyone reading this who works at Microsoft - I am genuinely curious - how do you sleep at night?
- valleyer 13y ago
  > Anyone reading this who works at Microsoft - I am genuinely curious - how do you sleep at night? Dude. Do you really think that everyone who works at Microsoft is responsible for or even has the ability to change their app store?
  - nirnira 13y ago
    So what, they just say, oh well, nothing to do with me? Great, how noble.
    - iopq 13y ago
      What are they going to do? It's Microsoft, it's not like the rank and file employee can just tell the executives "I don't like your apps strategy in Windows phone" and expect them to immediately change it.
ZoFreX 13y ago
The frustrating thing is that there are some really good apps amongst all the clutter. Thankfully you can download a free trial of almost all paid apps so you can figure out which one is for you, but it still takes a bit of work. But I was very pleasantly surprised that I could find high quality apps to cover just about everything I did on my phone, when I had a Windows phone for a month. Another problem I noticed at the time (I don't know if it is still the case) was that the store was flooded with fake reviews. Painfully obviously fake. So you have to try before you buy - which fortunately they do make very easy.

346 points by sardorbek 13y ago

Do we really want another crappy mobile browser and platform to support? We don't need them in mobile space anyways. I don't see a future in Microsoft mobile devices. They really missed the mark while everyone else is on their 4th lap of the race.

frigg 13y ago

Yeah, this is obviously a problem but let's not ignore the other elephant in the room. Here's a search for facebook* on google play. The only reason this post about Microsoft made it to the front page of HN is because of a negative thing about the Windows Phone store. And please don't tell me HN moderators don't remove posts about Microsoft, I just asked something about WP8 a few days ago and within 10 minutes it was removed. Others have complained about it as well. I wish HN would stop being so damn biased. https://play.google.com/store/search?q=facebook&c=apps https://play.google.com/store/search?q=facebook&c=apps

mratzloff 13y ago
Yes, the Google Play store has heaps of garbage apps as well (and worse), but at least other apps aren't permitted to directly copy and use Facebook's app icon, making their app indistinguishable from the official one.
- ansible 13y ago
  And the Facebook app is written by Facebook. And it is the first one. So even on the basic search page, it is easy to figure out which one is the official one. That's not to say the Play store doesn't drive me to distraction sometimes... I recently had to look at over a dozen flashlight apps to find one or two that weren't spamming me with ads and looking at my personal information.
ansimionescu 13y ago
Idea: a "premium" flag/badge set by human curators (GOOG/AAPL/MSFT employees). Then add an easy way of toggling "premium" searches, and voila, no more trash. PS: Here's the Mac App Store 'Facebook' search: http://i.imgur.com/8o8mveb.png http://i.imgur.com/8o8mveb.png
- tveita 13y ago
  The Google play store already has "top developer" and "editor's choice" badges that show up in search results. About your screenshot - maybe I'm missing something, but where in the results is the official Facebook app? Do they hide already installed apps?
aragot 13y ago
> I just asked something about WP8 a few days ago and within 10 minutes it was removed I can't speak for others, but for me the Microsoft dominance has been a pain until I started mastering Linux. I am very happy if it is confirmed that HN actively removes links about Microsoft, just as a cold personal feeling of street justice. So it's not HN, it's the crowd of geeks. On the other hand I don't see why HN would do that. Sounds like a loss of time and a PR risk. Maybe your content was average quality, maybe it wasn't cool enough, maybe it contained inappropriate contents. Please refer to the guidelines [1] to check whether your content had a chance to survive. [1] http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
hamburglar 13y ago
I didn't see a single app in those search results that anyone would actually confuse for the real Facebook app. There are several which use obviously-modified versions of the Facebook app icon to indicate that they're like the Facebook app but somehow different, but none that seem to be actually claiming to be Facebook. Contrast with the windows store, where the first 12 results are all fake Facebook apps, and they don't even show you the publisher name, so there's literally no way to distinguish which one is the correct one.
lawnchair_larry 13y ago
Why would moderators remove a post because it mentions Microsoft? That doesn't make sense.

mcormier 13y ago

As much as Apple's review process and curating can be a pain in the ass. This definitely shows the other end of the spectrum and what happens if you don't have any reviewing.

lostcolony 13y ago
I'm not sure anyone objects to curating, per se, more the fact that Apple isn't transparent, fair, or consistent about what causes an app to be rejected.
- Pxtl 13y ago
  Also, the fact that the curated store is the only way to get your software onto their device. If Best Buy doesn't want to sell my PC software, I can sell it through other channels. If Apple doesn't want to sell my iOS software, I can't. Android lets you sell stuff outside of the play store - look how well the Humble Android bundles do.
- gfodor 13y ago
  selection bias. we of course inevitably hear about the cases where Apple is not fair or acts inconsistently. but we do not hear about the vast majority of cases where they either allow apps in the store immediately or work through the issues with the developer so the app is compliant with the rules.
gjulianm 13y ago
Microsoft has a reviewing process for the WP Store. They don't enforce a "this is another FB web wrapper so it's not allowed" kind of rule, but the rules in place for quality and stability are pretty strict.
- leobelle 13y ago
  It's weird that Microsoft apparently doesn't give a shit about trademarks or IP in their app store admissions reviews. That seems like it would make them liable if they actually manually give these apps a pass.

legulere 13y ago

Sounds like cases where the owners of the trademarks (Faceboook, Google and Mozilla) should get active.

sardorbek 13y ago
It was news regarding Facebook apps 2-3 month ago, that Microsoft will remove them all. As you can see its not done :(
chuable 13y ago
They (well, in this case Facebook) did request it: http://www.wpcentral.com/facebook-windows-phone-store-trademark-infringement http://www.wpcentral.com/facebook-windows-phone-store-tradem...
MichaelGG 13y ago
They might, but Microsoft should be far more proactive in cleaning up this crap. Even apart from the big name trademark infringement, most apps are total and utter junk. It's hilariously bad. MS should at least have some sort of search filter to say "please only show apps that have been reviewed by a human or two and are not obvious crap".

rossjudson 13y ago

The root problem here is the single storefront exhibited in each of the major device universes: Apple Store, Microsoft Store, etc...a permanent solution to the problem is simple. Create a series of storefronts that are tiered. You can get almost anything into the dollar store equivalent. And then you have to apply to move into the higher tier, or a focused tier. It should cost money to do so -- which could be paid back out of sales at the new tier. Physical stores have buyers who inspect products, negotiate, and select. App stores need to the same thing. It's been a long time since I've bought anything on an app store. There's just way too much crap to wade through, making it a waste of time.

troymc 13y ago
Maybe Microsoft thought WP owners would give the bad apps bad reviews, so that the best app would rise to the top? I suppose if I wanted the real Facebook app for Windows Phone, I'd just go to Google and search for: site:facebook.com app "windows phone" Most people aren't going to do that though.
- teamonkey 13y ago
  There's a lot of fake review spam. It's pretty blatant too.

adjwilli 13y ago

A friend and I published some apps on the Microsoft store a few years ago, when it was still for Windows Phone 7. We've received several emails from Microsoft saying we need to update this and that or our apps will be removed. Because the apps never did that well - not surprisingly in hindsight given the market size - we never updated them. However we still get checks occasionally from the proceeds. Microsoft never removed them. I think they're just desperate to have apps in their store and inflated app numbers they can brag about. They obviously know what to do, but just aren't doing it.

TheAnimus 13y ago
I think people have made a mistake bragging about 'app store numbers'. When Windows Phone 7 first came along, a lot of the tech press liked to simply score the platforms by the number of apps. Microsoft originally were pretty hot at stopping the 'free' or 'light' versions of apps being entered, as anything on their store can have a trail mode. From a usability perspective this is just great. However people would compare the app count against android, not discounting the android apps that were just trails etc. So sadly, as long as people keep talking about app count, it is not in the interest of MS to cleanse it.
- johnchristopher 13y ago
  I followed you until you shifted the blame from the tech press to consumers.
  - pogden 13y ago
    Consumers were not mentioned in the comment. The last sentence talks about "people" which in context means members of the tech press.
    - johnchristopher 13y ago
      Hmm. Maybe I am wrong. I think it's not that obvious though. "People" used in a topic where the "press" is mentioned clearly means !press* to me. Maybe the author could clarify if he sees my comment ? * not part of the press

Geee 13y ago

Microsoft truly never ceases to amaze me. Good reminder of why I hate them. I was almost starting to believe that WP is actually quite good.

sardorbek 13y ago
I love Microsoft, and their technologies. I love Windows Phone. I am just not happy with the apps in the store. I recommend you Windows Phone :)
- raverbashing 13y ago
  If downloading an app in WP is as good as downloading an App in Windows (last time I did this I felt like I was cleaning a septic tank with my bare hands) then there are no advantages at verticalization. MS has cost me a lot in time and money, and this is something I try to avoid.
- Geee 13y ago
  Have you tried purchasing Windows 8 online? That's another experience altogether. I did that. It took 2 hours to make the purchase, with their horribly buggy store that doesn't even allow removing items from the shopping cart (had to clear cookies). It also requires Silverlight, which also crashes during the payment verification. It cost me $199 and all I got was Windows_installer.exe, what a horrible joke. Well, let's try to get my hands on a Windows machine and proceed to generate installable boot image from the downloaded files. That went quite well, but I was furious at this point. Ok, let's install and boot into my fresh Windows 8. That went fine. Next, let's try to activate it, and it says: 'This product key can only be used for Windows updates'. Microsoft, are you kidding me? At that point I decided that I won't ever touch any Microsoft products even with a ten foot pole. I don't trust them, they are liars, and their products suck. Microsoft will not improve. Look at that page: http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/pdp/Windows-8-Pro/productID.257987100 http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/pdp/Windows-... Then tell me how that is not lying to your customers? The information that this product is just an update from existing Windows installation is at the bottom of the page, no one reads that!

vtbassmatt 13y ago

At a glance, Google Play appears to have similar levels of app-spam for Facebook [0], Chrome [1], and Firefox [2]. The iTunes Store, on the other hand, seems quite sanitary for these queries. Just 1-2 potentially-junk "browsers", and nothing bogus for Facebook. Disclosure: I work for Microsoft, but not in the Windows Phone division. [0] https://play.google.com/store/search?q=facebook&c=apps https://play.google.com/store/search?q=facebook&c=apps [1] https://play.google.com/store/search?q=chrome&c=apps https://play.google.com/store/search?q=chrome&c=apps [2] https://play.google.com/store/search?q=firefox&c=apps https://play.google.com/store/search?q=firefox&c=apps

leobelle 13y ago
Uh, in no way shape or form are those results the same as the screenshots for the Windows App store. I don't see a single result where an official name is used to fake being the real thing. It looks like only the official apps have the official name and the other things are just add ons or silly, small value additions to Facebook, Chrome, or Firefox. Having said that, that is a shit load of low quality crap, but all app stores have junk like that including the iOS app store.
- edj 13y ago
  Uh, in no way shape or form are those results the same as the screenshots for the Windows App store. I don't see a single result where an official name is used to fake being the real thing. I agree that the Windows App Store examples are way more egregious, but some of the apps in the Google store are nearly as bad. Top right among the Facebook examples is especially deceptive. https://play.google.com/store/search?q=facebook&c=apps https://play.google.com/store/search?q=facebook&c=apps
  - potatolicious 13y ago
    The key difference here (and this is true on Apple's App Store also) is that the publisher name is directly under the app name. Users in general are aware that there are many scam/fake/imitator apps out there, but the publisher name provides a quick way of verifying the legitimacy of an app. Compare that with the Windows Store screenshot where there's literally no way to tell which is the real one. The existence of this problem is shitty, absolutely, but on Android and iOS there exist viable, discoverable workarounds. On Windows Store...

level09 13y ago

They probably need some smart ranking/popularity algorithm. Apple's app store has a lot of junk as well, but somehow they manage to sort them in a good way.

sidcool 13y ago

if they removed the apps, their app stats would really fk up.

cordite 13y ago

An evangelist came to my university to try to get the students to make apps. They just wanted to boost their numbers artificially, and they were willing to pay hundreds to students for making these crappy things.

lclarkmichalek 13y ago
Similar experiences here. Our bog standard "write an Android application for an external client" had the strange requirement of "port to Windows 8 Phone" attached to it.
maaaats 13y ago
I have had events like that from all kind of companies, nothing unique about this, and it's certainly not about boosting their numbers. It's about getting students to learn their technologies and then use them later. Blackberry recently paid developers to port apps to their platform. Is that "artificially boosting their numbers", or just smart marketing? I don't see any problems with this.
- eropple 13y ago
  When they literally don't care what the app is (paying a developer $100 for a flashlight app), yeah, it doesn't speak well of their desires to serve their users.
rbanffy 13y ago
I went to a congress, last year, I think, and Microsoft and Nokia representatives came on stage to announce that for every Windows Phone app they got on the store (and they had an expedite process going on during the event), they'd gift a Nokia phone. For many it wasn't clear it would be a Nokia Asha phone, but, still, they got a crapload of young students writing apps for them.

pioul 13y ago

Another related issue I've been having with the WP Store as a developer: I made a WP7 app a while back to give a try, based on a site's API that has since been discontinued. Obviously, the app doesn't work anymore, since it was focused on content consumption from that API. But since then, my developer license has expired. Even though I need to remove the app (somehow new users keep coming), the WP Store won't allow me to do so without an active developer license. Too bad for the fooled users, I guess.

300bps 13y ago

A year ago, Microsoft needed to do this to inflate their app numbers because there were much fewer apps in the Windows Phone store. But now I'm actually shocked how many apps/games are available on Windows Phone. Jetpack Joyride, Subway Surfers, Minion Rush are three popular games on other platforms that I recently installed for my youngest son while at my older son's basketball game recently. ...and as a former 6 year user of iPhones, the "Kids Corner" that is on Windows Phone totally separates kid-approved activities (games) from non-kid-approved activities (my email, twitter, facebook, etc). That feature alone is worth upgrading to Windows Phone if you have kids that occasionally use your phone.

johsoe 13y ago

This slightly angers me coming from several attempts to upload legit WP8 apps. Privacy policies not being "good" enough, no location tracking switch in a "location aware" app, little to no experiences from other developers(typical stackoverflow trouble shooting becoming impossible), worse app approval process than Apple.. the list goes on. This being in a platform which they're trying to push. :(

teamonkey 13y ago
Call me crazy, but I WANT the privacy policy and to be able to switch off location services if I don't trust your app. I'm glad they have these policies in place. There are a lot of things to complain about the Windows Store but from a consumer's point of view that's not one if them.

higherpurpose 13y ago

Yes, but then how would they be able to mislead people into thinking their platform has a lot of apps, too?

kispester 13y ago

It's not about quantity. It's about quality. And every big player is trying to crush Windows Phone platform. Google is so ridiculous that they're willing to lose big money by not making its glorified ad service on the platform. Google made Youtube and pulled back, Google search on WP is ridiculous. Not even Maps, which has great social network potential, much more than Youtube.

raptormissle 13y ago
It's ridiculous that you think that "Google is so ridiculous that they're willing to lose big money by not making its glorified ad service on the platform." On the contrary, Google is brilliant by not wasting their time and money on an irrelevant platform that has no hope for success and market share adoption.

GeneralMayhem 13y ago

So why hasn't Facebook taken them to the cleaners for IP and brand damage?

troymc 13y ago
or trademark infringement. Maybe the offending WP app makers are in a legal jurisdiction beyond Facebook's reach?
- GeneralMayhem 13y ago
  Doesn't matter, they should be able to DMCA the hell out of MS.
  - troymc 13y ago
    I thought the DMCA was about copyrights, not trademarks.

vmarsy 13y ago

The best way to get good apps on a Windows phone is to get an app (developed by Microsoft!) that warns you when new & popular apps are here. The fact that this app exists tells there's a problem with the Windows store search. But as the OP says, they're also plenty of good quality apps: from small tools like the Bill reminder, or non-shady flashlights apps which doesn't require an Internet connection and your phonebook address, to an official GTA San Andreas.

sifarat 13y ago

had they been smart enough, perhaps the company would have been in better share than it is today, in regard to smartphone warfare.

ecesena 13y ago

+1! We recently released a Windows 8 app [1], categorized as news, pretty cool I'd modestly say... but if you search for "news" it takes 10 pages of horizontal scroll to find Theneeds... and most of the app out there are really poor (I'd modestly say :) [1] http://www.theneeds.com/p/win8 http://www.theneeds.com/p/win8

Eeko 13y ago

The funny thing is, that these days the simple 3rd party "fake" and costly clients are often superior against the official apps. Less leaking location, address books, text messages and usage patterns, please.

donniefitz2 13y ago

I recently switched to WP and was surprised at the low quality apps. But, for me it's a good thing because it presents an opportunity for me, as a dev, to create quality apps. Microsoft really does need to clean house in the store.

aegiso 13y ago

1. New platform with not many apps 2. Gotta play Apple's game and tout the app count 3. Devs plz more apps kthxbye; don't worry about quality -- we'll look the other way and hose down criticism with excuses 4. Consumers see how desolate, harsh, and unusable the whole ecosystem is -- further rerouting them to Apple 5. Goto 1, with more gusto and a new reorg

nirnira 13y ago
It's just pathetic how dumb they are.

ssully 13y ago

As others have said they like having these crap apps for the number count. Last summer Microsoft had a developer promotion where they would give you 100 dollars per successfully submitted app. You could submit 10 for the regular store, and 10 for the phone store, so you could get 2000 total. The reason I even knew this was because a Microsoft rep came to my school to promote it. He did a workshop that basically taught us how to submit apps to the windows store. Part of the process was making a boilerplate app that we used a third party application to make. The entire class, about 20 students, made similar "whack a mole" game apps, all of which successfully submitted. We all got 100 dollars and all of our apps are still in the store. http://apps.microsoft.com/windows/en-us/app/rat-smash/ea0e989d-21ef-442e-b62b-757d31317071 http://apps.microsoft.com/windows/en-us/app/rat-smash/ea0e98... Go ahead and check it out; I promise it's as horrible as it looks.

CoryG89 13y ago
Yeah, my buddy was the MS campus rep for the CSSE dept. at my university. Some if the guys were building lots of really quick do nothing apps to get cash. Microsoft was trying desperately to just fill its store with as many apps as possible as quickly as it could. I put one HTML5 peg game that I had built with Kinetic.JS together as a WinJS app and got a quick $100. I didn't want to put out ten crappy apps with my name attached to them though.
dredmorbius 13y ago
they like having these crap apps for the number count. Which is a very strong argument for not using idiotic performance metrics (the app count is almost certainly built into multiple levels of policy goals at MSFT). Or, as I like to say: be careful of what you incent for. You will get it.
- lostlogin 13y ago
  Market share is another metric like this in my opinion. The local newspaper owns its market completely. I bet advertisers get given all sorts of impressive stats. I bet they count me and both my neighbours as readers, despite all three copies going from the letterbox, up the drive and into the recycling bin (or the fire in winter).

wdr1 13y ago

Microsoft likes to bring out the number of apps in their store, especially so it looks competitive to the Apple App store. Unfortunately, cleaning junk out of the store is counter to that goal.

analog31 13y ago

Oddly enough, there's at least a dozen Hacker News apps at the Android store. Granted, there is no "official" HN app, so these aren't fakes of anything. I decided that the last thing I need is HN burning a hole in my pocket all day long when I should be working.

contextfree 13y ago

# of apps as a metric is like # of lines of code - it ought to be "booked on the other side of the ledger" ( http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/transcriptions/EWD05xx/EWD513.html http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/transcriptions/EWD05xx/EW... )

nirnira 13y ago

Anyone who's owned a Windows Phone already knows this. Search for anything. Doesn't matter what it is. No matter what you search for, you'll get pages of results - of the worst apps you have ever seen. Absolute trash. It's disgusting. It makes me never want to use their app store. The fact that they not only condone it, they actively encouraged it just makes me sick. How insecure are they? How stupid are they? Do they really think the best way to cover their insecurity about being 3rd place is with bluster and bullshit? Do they really think their customers are that stupid? Whatever happened to the old philosophy of competing by trying to build clear, demonstrable superiority - a better product? It's mind-boggling. From which point in the organisation does this insanity stem? I want to like Microsoft, but shit like this makes me feel like a fool for ever giving them a chance. Seriously. Good thing my next phone is a Nexus... great job Microsoft. Way to build loyalty among your customers. And Steve Ballmer has the nerve to call MS "ethical" and "forward-thinking." Anyone reading this who works at Microsoft - I am genuinely curious - how do you sleep at night?

valleyer 13y ago
> Anyone reading this who works at Microsoft - I am genuinely curious - how do you sleep at night? Dude. Do you really think that everyone who works at Microsoft is responsible for or even has the ability to change their app store?
- nirnira 13y ago
  So what, they just say, oh well, nothing to do with me? Great, how noble.
  - iopq 13y ago
    What are they going to do? It's Microsoft, it's not like the rank and file employee can just tell the executives "I don't like your apps strategy in Windows phone" and expect them to immediately change it.

ZoFreX 13y ago

The frustrating thing is that there are some really good apps amongst all the clutter. Thankfully you can download a free trial of almost all paid apps so you can figure out which one is for you, but it still takes a bit of work. But I was very pleasantly surprised that I could find high quality apps to cover just about everything I did on my phone, when I had a Windows phone for a month. Another problem I noticed at the time (I don't know if it is still the case) was that the store was flooded with fake reviews. Painfully obviously fake. So you have to try before you buy - which fortunately they do make very easy.