6 ms·

King Candy Crushes Developers, The Saga

177 points by deletes 13y ago

xerophtye 13y ago
Error 505....
- troels 13y ago
  505? That's exotic ..
  - RBerenguel 13y ago
    Version not supported ^o
- blueskin_ 13y ago
  I think you broke it.
deletes 13y ago
Google cache: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?safe=off&hl=en&sclient=psy-ab&q=cache%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.gemfruit.com%2Farticles%2Fking-candy-crushes-developers-saga&oq=cache%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.gemfruit.com%2Farticles%2Fking-candy-crushes-developers-saga&gs_l=serp.3...3385.5959.0.6181.12.9.3.0.0.0.74.524.8.8.0....1...1c.1.32.psy-ab..12.0.0.wH9f0k6X2-E&pbx=1 http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?safe=off&hl=en&...
- Alterlife 13y ago
  In related news, "Hacker News Crushes gemfruit.com, The Saga"
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
jgreen10 13y ago
What's next? Trademarking "Apple"?
- Tohhou 13y ago
  https://www.apple.com/legal/intellectual-property/trademark/appletmlist.html https://www.apple.com/legal/intellectual-property/trademark/... Done.
  - antiterra 13y ago
    I'm pretty sure the GP was tongue-in-cheek, but don't forget about this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Corps_v_Apple_Computer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Corps_v_Apple_Computer
- thejosh 13y ago
  Considering that they have gone after companies with anything relating to an apple in a logo, I would guess so :).
- CmonDev 13y ago
  Not within fruit production sector.
- georgeecollins 13y ago
  You have to understand, a trademark only applies when you are conducting business where you might be confused with the trademark holder. Apple Computer could exist independent of Apple Records trademark because people don't confuse records with computers. Trademarking Apple doesn't mean you can't have a farming company with apple in the name or logo. Once Apple started making music players (ipods) they had to work out a deal with Apple Records.
- zemanel 13y ago
  saw a branded vehicle on the street from Apple Pharmacy: http://www.applepharmacy.co.uk http://www.applepharmacy.co.uk edit: meaning, users will confound Candy Crush with The Banner Saga as much as Apple Computers and Apple Pharmacy, which is none. they're only picking on the little guys because they can.
maaarghk 13y ago
"This site is hosted by HostGator! Build your website today and get 20% off! Coupon code: "PAGE500" CLICK HERE TO GET STARTED" ....not likely haha! edit: okay, I've read the article now and the whole thing sounds pretty shady, yeah. I think what they really need to take away from this is that they should tell the truth when someone calls them out, and not just lie. Because then... you'll get called out twice. Seriously, I can feel a PR carcrash coming on if they just keep telling lies (in broken english).
- probablyfiction 13y ago
  Hostgator is such a shitty hosting company. Would not recommend.
- suby 13y ago
  Tell the truth? What are they going to say, "Yes, we purposefully cloned this game."? Lying about it certainly isn't helping, but I don't think being truthful here would be help them.
  - oneeyedpigeon 13y ago
    Actually, if they owned up, explained how they would do things differently in future, and then followed through on that, I might be prepared to be a customer of theirs again in future.
- angersock 13y ago
  If anybody wants a secret cabal of skilled veteran sysadmins, you can do worse than former HG employees.
oneeyedpigeon 13y ago
From King.com [1]: "The debate here revolves around Pac-Avoid [...] The game strongly resembles another game called ScamperGhost. The details of the situation are complex, but the bottom line is that we should never have published Pac-Avoid. We have taken the game down from our site, and we apologise for having published it in the first place. Let me be clear: This unfortunate situation is an exception to the rule. King does not clone games, and we do not want anyone cloning our games. Before we launch any game, we do a thorough search of other games in the marketplace and review relevant trademark filings to ensure that we are not infringing anyone else’s IP. We have launched hundreds of games. Occasionally, we get things wrong. When we do, we take appropriate action." I'm pretty sure this is an admission that they cloned the game. We know it, they know it, they haven't outright said "we cloned the game", but this is as good as. Unless I'm misreading it, in which case they should correct that statement. Given that, it would be interesting to know what legal avenues are open to the original developer now. If another party was willing to provide financial support for a lawsuit, surely it's a slam-dunk? I think the whole issue of whether or not candy crush can be considered a clone is vastly different; obviously, the core mechanism is pretty much (or exactly) the same as in other games, but that mechanism is very straightforward. And I'm not sure the visuals are so blatantly a rip-off. Moreover, I'm unaware of any evidence from a third-party that has revealed King commissioned them to create a clone. [1] http://about.king.com/about/our-approach-to-ip http://about.king.com/about/our-approach-to-ip
- danielweber 13y ago
  It's tough. I was at a place where another company ripped off our stuff, including our typos, and our lawyer could really only get them to FOAD after we got the patents issued. And at that point they merely exited the market -- no damages. I should note that we didn't pour 100% of available resources into suing those assholes as a business decision, because we were busy developing our own software.
  - rayiner 13y ago
    > It's tough. I was at a place where another company ripped off our stuff, including our typos We had a customer who complained, off-hand, that a Chinese company had ripped off their (carrier-grade) router design down to the English silk screening on the PCB's.
moha114aw 13y ago
I am not knowledgeable on all of King's negative practices, but as ridiculous as their trademark pursuit of 'candy' and others sounds, the only question I think they are asking is, "How will it affect our sales?". Otherwise, why go through this fiasco by trying to bully the 'little guys'? In their mind all other developers and their sympathizers combined won't be a match to those facebook users who click and purchase 'Boosters'.
srg0 13y ago
It's a pity King targets Stoic Studio. Their first title (The Banner Saga) is amazing. And I really hope that Stoic Studio will have the resources to finish the trilogy. The statement by the developers: "Two years ago, the three of us at Stoic set out to make an epic viking game: The Banner Saga. We did, and people loved it, so we’re making another one. We won’t make a viking saga without the word Saga, and we don’t appreciate anyone telling us we can’t. King.com claims they’re not attempting to prevent us from using The Banner Saga, and yet their legal opposition to our trademark filing remains. We’re humbled by the outpouring of support and honored to have others stand with us for the right to their own Saga. We just want to make great games." http://stoicstudio.com/the-banner-saga/ http://stoicstudio.com/the-banner-saga/
- rayiner 13y ago
  The developers' statement is wrong. King is not preventing Stoic from using the name "The Banner Saga." That would be the case if King filed a trademark infringement suit. What they have filed is an opposition to Stoic's application. Thus, what they're doing is trying to keep Stoic from claiming exclusive use of the name "The Banner Saga" in the context of a casual online game.
  - dboat 13y ago
    Essentially King are telling Stoic they can use the name, but cannot own it, because it includes the single word "Saga." It's a little unsavory of King to claim ownership of that single word in such a broad context, and the particulars do not sensibly favour their cause.
    - danielweber 13y ago
      According to grandparent, King is not claiming ownership. They are claiming "those guys can't trademark Saga." Their reasoning is "because we use it in our games and have been," but that's not claiming ownership. If I try to trademark "chicken" and McDonald's objects saying "we have been selling Chicken McNuggets for decades," that is not McDonald's saying "we own the trademark on Chicken."
Danieru 13y ago
Interesting that this is the same King I remember as King.com. Back in 2009 I was hanging out on the FlashGameLicense irc channel and watching the other dev's business deals. I'm not sure if I ever met porter but I do remember spending a silly quantity of time talking with the other regulars. Now one thing I do remember clear was how king.com was BIG. Not AdddictingArcade big but they had polish and felt like a real company. With the smaller flash sites you could tell it was all one person. King.com (Back then it was always .com) had people with job titles and pockets to back the biggest of games. Now this is only a faint memory but I had the impression King.com was cutthroat. They were driven and were aggressive in games acquisition. I might be biased, I might have known him, but I belief porter. Not even sure I blame him, there was a ton of cloning in the flash world back then and the flash portal relationships were always mysterious. It would be easy to fall for a kind guy from the portal spinning a story.
- Sparkky 13y ago
  Yea I had a similar issue when I used to hang out in that IRC channel as well when I sold flash games. I work AAA development now, but its weird to see porter and king talking about these things that went down back when this community was full of lovable little underdogs.

177 points by deletes 13y ago

xerophtye 13y ago

Error 505....

troels 13y ago
505? That's exotic ..
- RBerenguel 13y ago
  Version not supported ^o
blueskin_ 13y ago
I think you broke it.

deletes 13y ago

Google cache: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?safe=off&hl=en&sclient=psy-ab&q=cache%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.gemfruit.com%2Farticles%2Fking-candy-crushes-developers-saga&oq=cache%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.gemfruit.com%2Farticles%2Fking-candy-crushes-developers-saga&gs_l=serp.3...3385.5959.0.6181.12.9.3.0.0.0.74.524.8.8.0....1...1c.1.32.psy-ab..12.0.0.wH9f0k6X2-E&pbx=1 http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?safe=off&hl=en&...

Alterlife 13y ago
In related news, "Hacker News Crushes gemfruit.com, The Saga"

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

jgreen10 13y ago

What's next? Trademarking "Apple"?

Tohhou 13y ago
https://www.apple.com/legal/intellectual-property/trademark/appletmlist.html https://www.apple.com/legal/intellectual-property/trademark/... Done.
- antiterra 13y ago
  I'm pretty sure the GP was tongue-in-cheek, but don't forget about this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Corps_v_Apple_Computer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Corps_v_Apple_Computer
thejosh 13y ago
Considering that they have gone after companies with anything relating to an apple in a logo, I would guess so :).
CmonDev 13y ago
Not within fruit production sector.
georgeecollins 13y ago
You have to understand, a trademark only applies when you are conducting business where you might be confused with the trademark holder. Apple Computer could exist independent of Apple Records trademark because people don't confuse records with computers. Trademarking Apple doesn't mean you can't have a farming company with apple in the name or logo. Once Apple started making music players (ipods) they had to work out a deal with Apple Records.
zemanel 13y ago
saw a branded vehicle on the street from Apple Pharmacy: http://www.applepharmacy.co.uk http://www.applepharmacy.co.uk edit: meaning, users will confound Candy Crush with The Banner Saga as much as Apple Computers and Apple Pharmacy, which is none. they're only picking on the little guys because they can.

maaarghk 13y ago

"This site is hosted by HostGator! Build your website today and get 20% off! Coupon code: "PAGE500" CLICK HERE TO GET STARTED" ....not likely haha! edit: okay, I've read the article now and the whole thing sounds pretty shady, yeah. I think what they really need to take away from this is that they should tell the truth when someone calls them out, and not just lie. Because then... you'll get called out twice. Seriously, I can feel a PR carcrash coming on if they just keep telling lies (in broken english).

probablyfiction 13y ago
Hostgator is such a shitty hosting company. Would not recommend.
suby 13y ago
Tell the truth? What are they going to say, "Yes, we purposefully cloned this game."? Lying about it certainly isn't helping, but I don't think being truthful here would be help them.
- oneeyedpigeon 13y ago
  Actually, if they owned up, explained how they would do things differently in future, and then followed through on that, I might be prepared to be a customer of theirs again in future.
angersock 13y ago
If anybody wants a secret cabal of skilled veteran sysadmins, you can do worse than former HG employees.

oneeyedpigeon 13y ago

From King.com [1]: "The debate here revolves around Pac-Avoid [...] The game strongly resembles another game called ScamperGhost. The details of the situation are complex, but the bottom line is that we should never have published Pac-Avoid. We have taken the game down from our site, and we apologise for having published it in the first place. Let me be clear: This unfortunate situation is an exception to the rule. King does not clone games, and we do not want anyone cloning our games. Before we launch any game, we do a thorough search of other games in the marketplace and review relevant trademark filings to ensure that we are not infringing anyone else’s IP. We have launched hundreds of games. Occasionally, we get things wrong. When we do, we take appropriate action." I'm pretty sure this is an admission that they cloned the game. We know it, they know it, they haven't outright said "we cloned the game", but this is as good as. Unless I'm misreading it, in which case they should correct that statement. Given that, it would be interesting to know what legal avenues are open to the original developer now. If another party was willing to provide financial support for a lawsuit, surely it's a slam-dunk? I think the whole issue of whether or not candy crush can be considered a clone is vastly different; obviously, the core mechanism is pretty much (or exactly) the same as in other games, but that mechanism is very straightforward. And I'm not sure the visuals are so blatantly a rip-off. Moreover, I'm unaware of any evidence from a third-party that has revealed King commissioned them to create a clone. [1] http://about.king.com/about/our-approach-to-ip http://about.king.com/about/our-approach-to-ip

danielweber 13y ago
It's tough. I was at a place where another company ripped off our stuff, including our typos, and our lawyer could really only get them to FOAD after we got the patents issued. And at that point they merely exited the market -- no damages. I should note that we didn't pour 100% of available resources into suing those assholes as a business decision, because we were busy developing our own software.
- rayiner 13y ago
  > It's tough. I was at a place where another company ripped off our stuff, including our typos We had a customer who complained, off-hand, that a Chinese company had ripped off their (carrier-grade) router design down to the English silk screening on the PCB's.

moha114aw 13y ago

I am not knowledgeable on all of King's negative practices, but as ridiculous as their trademark pursuit of 'candy' and others sounds, the only question I think they are asking is, "How will it affect our sales?". Otherwise, why go through this fiasco by trying to bully the 'little guys'? In their mind all other developers and their sympathizers combined won't be a match to those facebook users who click and purchase 'Boosters'.

srg0 13y ago

It's a pity King targets Stoic Studio. Their first title (The Banner Saga) is amazing. And I really hope that Stoic Studio will have the resources to finish the trilogy. The statement by the developers: "Two years ago, the three of us at Stoic set out to make an epic viking game: The Banner Saga. We did, and people loved it, so we’re making another one. We won’t make a viking saga without the word Saga, and we don’t appreciate anyone telling us we can’t. King.com claims they’re not attempting to prevent us from using The Banner Saga, and yet their legal opposition to our trademark filing remains. We’re humbled by the outpouring of support and honored to have others stand with us for the right to their own Saga. We just want to make great games." http://stoicstudio.com/the-banner-saga/ http://stoicstudio.com/the-banner-saga/

rayiner 13y ago
The developers' statement is wrong. King is not preventing Stoic from using the name "The Banner Saga." That would be the case if King filed a trademark infringement suit. What they have filed is an opposition to Stoic's application. Thus, what they're doing is trying to keep Stoic from claiming exclusive use of the name "The Banner Saga" in the context of a casual online game.
- dboat 13y ago
  Essentially King are telling Stoic they can use the name, but cannot own it, because it includes the single word "Saga." It's a little unsavory of King to claim ownership of that single word in such a broad context, and the particulars do not sensibly favour their cause.
  - danielweber 13y ago
    According to grandparent, King is not claiming ownership. They are claiming "those guys can't trademark Saga." Their reasoning is "because we use it in our games and have been," but that's not claiming ownership. If I try to trademark "chicken" and McDonald's objects saying "we have been selling Chicken McNuggets for decades," that is not McDonald's saying "we own the trademark on Chicken."

Danieru 13y ago

Interesting that this is the same King I remember as King.com. Back in 2009 I was hanging out on the FlashGameLicense irc channel and watching the other dev's business deals. I'm not sure if I ever met porter but I do remember spending a silly quantity of time talking with the other regulars. Now one thing I do remember clear was how king.com was BIG. Not AdddictingArcade big but they had polish and felt like a real company. With the smaller flash sites you could tell it was all one person. King.com (Back then it was always .com) had people with job titles and pockets to back the biggest of games. Now this is only a faint memory but I had the impression King.com was cutthroat. They were driven and were aggressive in games acquisition. I might be biased, I might have known him, but I belief porter. Not even sure I blame him, there was a ton of cloning in the flash world back then and the flash portal relationships were always mysterious. It would be easy to fall for a kind guy from the portal spinning a story.

Sparkky 13y ago
Yea I had a similar issue when I used to hang out in that IRC channel as well when I sold flash games. I work AAA development now, but its weird to see porter and king talking about these things that went down back when this community was full of lovable little underdogs.