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One Man Has Written Virtually Every Major Pop Song Of The Last 20 Years.
- sanoli 13y agoSo it's only one guy who's been responsible for all this crap?
- georgemcbay 13y agoNope, it is many millions of consumers who are responsible for all this crap. This one guy is just an important part of a team feeding them what they want to eat.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- vacri 13y agoFor values of "virtually every" where "virtually every" means "surprisingly prolific for one songwriter, but nowhere near 'actually every'".
- billsix 13y agodo you play music? do you have the ability to play his pieces? or to compose either at or above his level? when I was learning piano in the late 90's, I bought classical sheet music for training, and pop sheet music to play for friends and family. at the top of most of the pop pieces said "max martin" classical music taught a lot to me, but so did max's music. point being, inarticulate insults such as saying the music is crap, are not worthwhile criticisms.
- sanoli 13y agoSure, I think the guy is extremely talented. No doubt about it whatsoever. He uses his talent, though, on a format that is much simple and the results aren't very long-lasting, I guess because of the simplicity/lack of depth. In 50 years, who will still listen to the classical pieces you were learning? And who will still listen to the pop pieces?
- dave_miller 13y agoWow what an astoundingly non-detailed article.
- hristov 13y agoGee, no wonder they all sound the same.
- mcintyre1994 13y agoThat's probably more to do with this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pidokakU4I http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pidokakU4I :)
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- WalterBright 13y agoReminds me of the Monkees. In the early days, the studio hired the best songwriters to write the tunes for them. After a while, the Monkees rebelled and insisted they could write their own songs. And the Monkees pretty much ceased to exist. Pretty much the same story for David Cassidy.
- jmaygarden 13y agoDidn't Neil Diamond write several of their hits?
- bill-nordwall 13y agoYep! Neil Diamond wrote I'm A Believer. Also, Carole King wrote Pleasant Valley Sunday. Here's her original demo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtyqPzeso5A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtyqPzeso5A
- jamesbritt 13y agoTo be fair, Mike Nesmith did write a hit song, but it was a big seller ("Different Drum") for the Stone Ponys.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- chris_wot 13y agoSays it all really. Banal, soulless, uninteresting songs. All up for awards.
- swombat 13y ago"Every major pop song" seems like a bit of an overstatement. He's clearly very good at finding the sound that sells - but there are many successful songs (even just in the genre of "pop") not written by him...
- joelrunyon 13y agoYou missed the "virtually" in front of every. That dramatically changes the context & meaning of the sentence.
- zaidf 13y agoDoes anyone know what's the equivelent in rap? Can I assume most mainstream rappers(Kanye, Wiz, 50 Cent etc.) heavily contribute to their own lyrics? I'm particularly curious about Eminem.
- joelrunyon 13y agoEminem's style and lyrics are all mostly personal. You can tell from how his lyrics mirror his lifestyle that much of it is written personally. On the flip side, Dr Dre is known to have his lyrics ghostwritten & is primarily known for his production skills.
- romanovcode 13y ago> primarily known for his production skills I think nowadays he's more know for his overpriced headphones tho.
- joelrunyon 13y agoAlso another product that recognized / created a market & built a product that seems acceptably priced to those who bought it. They might be overpriced to you, but to the thousands of people who've bought them, they seem worth the value.
- MichaelGG 13y agoIf they're buying for the brand, then perhaps. The headphones are objectively worse than other models in the same price range. I'd guess that most buyers are not aware of this and just think it's cool or it must be good because it's higher priced. It's brilliant marketing, sure. But it's like taking a $2 bottle of wine, rebranding it, and saying it's worth the value at $19.
- joelrunyon 13y agoThat's the whole point of the brand though. I don't think Beats is trying to convey the image that they're the objectively best brand of headphones. However, they are saying - these are endorsed by Dre, popular athletes & other profile musicians & that wearing them is "cool". That's like complaining that Nike can markup a pair of Jordans for $150 even though they're objectively "just as good" as a pair that costs $70-$100. A "brand" is valuable. Case in point - that "rebranding" of the wine, just got you an extra $17 in margin.
- ukandy 13y agoNothing to be proud of.
- spoiledtechie 13y agoWhat have you done to be proud of? I say hes made quite a dent in the world of music.
- ukandy 13y agoA few people here need a humour transplant it seems.
- ProAm 13y agoThe last 20 years begs to differ.
- squintychino 13y agoHis $250 million net worth begs to differ.
- joelrunyon 13y agoI don't understand all the hate. Okay I get we don't have a lot of backstreet boy or Britney fans here (not one either) & I get the whole "pop music sounds the same lament, but at the same time, there's a market for it & he's excelled at creating something that sells that. Just because it's pop music doesn't mean you can't give the guy credit for understanding his market & dominating his field.
- tedks 13y ago>there's a market for it & he's excelled at creating something that sells that. There's also a market for black tar heroin, nuclear missiles, drones, slaves, and so on. >Just because it's pop music doesn't mean you can't give the guy credit for understanding his market & dominating his field. Is pop music a good thing for the world? (It obviously isn't as bad as any of the things I listed above to avoid claims of hyperbole, but) should we think people who make pop music are doing a good thing?
- swombat 13y agoAre you seriously comparing pop music to heroin and slaves???
- shocks 13y agoYup... I think he is... Haha! :/
- tedks 13y agoSure. Heroin and slaves are really, really bad. Pop music is just mildly bad. That's a comparison. The point I intended to make is that there are markets for everything. I don't even think pop music is that bad, but being successful in a marketplace is never cause alone for accolades. Blindly worshipping people who are successful at some business venture blinds us to the ethics of whatever they're doing. Success shouldn't disable critical thinking.
- joelrunyon 13y ago
- joelrunyon 13y agoInteresting to see similarities in musical preferences & identifying common threads that lead to popularity. This video / song [1] was viral a few years ago because it demonstrated the similarities between major popular songs spanning multiple decades through the use of just four chords.. [1] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pidokakU4I http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pidokakU4I
- evanb 13y agoThat axis of awesome video reminds me of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdxkVQy7QLM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdxkVQy7QLM by Rob Paravonian. Also, the article reminds me of a parody video about the prolific nature of Bob Dylan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MumScDIZMJc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MumScDIZMJc
- fredgrott 13y agoWhat I think is interesting is what it may mean for both web and mobile apps. Is there a particular holy grail magical formula for mobile and web apps that produces more hits than losers?
- camus2 13y ago> Is there a particular holy grail magical formula for mobile and web apps that produces more hits than losers? Easy,make something really usefull that solves a real problem and people will pay for it... Unlike Pop music there is no formula,but knowing the right people helps I guess. Pop music today is about using the same recipes that have been used for 30 years+ ,and i'm including "rap" in it, remember when rap was about something else than Btches and Bttles ? no? me neither...
- busterarm 13y agoI wonder why people find this surprising. This is how pop music has always been done and it even used to be more in the open. Bands/singers didn't have to get people to (ghost)write songs/lyrics for them - they used to just be performers. Many of the important names are on this list: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inductees_of_the_Songwriters_Hall_of_Fame http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inductees_of_the_Songwriters_Ha... and a really obvious example is a guy like Paul Williams http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Williams_(songwriter) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Williams_(songwriter) who made The Carpenters and Three Dog Night famous.
- joelrunyon 13y agoSort of a real life example of the 80/20 principle as it relates to the entertainment industry.
- busterarm 13y agoAlso, this list of names are the ones that are lucky. At the low end of things, some songwriters end up selling their songs completely to the label and don't keep songwriting credit or royalties and those end up getting attributed to an artist or producer. Go dig for names of people who write incidental music for TV shows (especially soap operas) and you'll find people who ghost wrote songs for major rock bands where no one will ever know about it. It's something I wouldn't have even known about myself had I not worked with a guy that did just that.
- contextfree 13y agoI don't think this is really "ghostwriting" for the most part - the credits are usually in the open, the writers just don't get much publicity.
- busterarm 13y agoWell, you're right. But honestly producers have been the most important players in the game since Rick Rubin when producers started to contribute more to songwriting (actually that's sort of a lie - I'd argue it started with Keith Olsen). It's sorta shocking that people don't know. I only even mentioned ghostwriting because some other comments mentioned it and because it actually does happen where the credits aren't in the open. I'll add parenthesis to make it more clear.
- erichmond 13y agoIt's extremely difficult to write a great melody, much less produce a great song. While I don't often listen to his tracks for "fun", I have to give him that he's a great songwriter. Same with Diane Warren.
- pcurve 13y agoI agree. Very few people can come up with catchy tune on consistent basis. He reminds me of a prolific young Japanese orchestra-style music composer Sawano Hiroyuki who has written some terrific soundtrack for TV, though I'd consider him many level above Max Martin. Just a few of his work. http://youtu.be/GiL5_FCbstk?t=19s http://youtu.be/GiL5_FCbstk?t=19s http://youtu.be/WG2o3wWtrsU http://youtu.be/WG2o3wWtrsU http://youtu.be/M1eh_d382hA http://youtu.be/M1eh_d382hA (my personal favorite)
- pronoiac 13y agoWhen someone close to me had kids, I came close to loading up an iPod with all of Weird Al's music, so that they would hear his versions first, and they would think that he was the prime musical force of the past 30 years. I didn't follow through, though I regret that sometimes.
- samatman 13y agoWhen I was a lad, I didn't understand that some of Weird Al's songs were just funny. I though that, for every Weird Al, there was a corresponding pop song. The best part is, even though I was wrong, I still sometimes hear a song and think "Oh. That one was a parody, huh."
- moocowduckquack 13y agoHe keeps his hair long to hide the little pair of horns.
- Tycho 13y agoThat is a gross, absurd exaggeration. He has a few classic pop songs, no doubt, and clearly a very lucrative career writing and producing tracks for A-list pop stars. But in the last 10 years I'm not sure he's written any of what I'd call the best pop hits. Looking through his discography on wikipedia I suspect there's some of those songs I know by melody and not by name, but I think he's long past his songwriter peak. And obviously there's dozens off great pop songs that he didn't write (which were smash hits). edit: I missed all the Katy Perry ones, so I guess maybe he's still got it. But still, I don't see any work with Rihanna, who is probably the biggest pop star of the last decade.
- twerquie 13y agoKaty Perry's Teenage Dream album was largely written by MM, I'd say it's both one of the most important pop records of the last decade and MM's best work. It smashed all sorts of chart records, in total it had 8 top-three singles on the Billboard Hot 100, and 5 number one singles. It's absolutely destined to be a classic album in every sense of the word, and I find it funny that most music heads I know can't see that because (imho) they are too afraid of being seen as someone who enjoys Katy Perry. Oh well, the kids who were 12 at the time will grow up appreciating it. I suppose it's for them anyway.
- Tycho 13y agoInteresting. Maybe I'll give it a spin. I can only think of a couple of singles but they were very catchy (Last Friday Night and California Girls). I tend to view rock and pop and most other mainstream genres as simply one super-genre: modern song. It amuses me slightly when rock fans look down on pop music when really the difference is very small.
- eaurouge 13y agoOn HN of all places we should value the creative process. I think we should do so even when we don't agree with the content, as long as there are no ethical/legal issues. The title is plain silly, of course. There are many other talented songwriters and producers out there - Babyface is one, I'm sure there are others. Songwriters and producers don't get their due though (unless they also sing). Back in the day, I used to read CD liner notes to get to know the producers behind the songs I liked. But I always paid more attention to producers than songwriters: for some songs it's hard to know which one out of the five listed songwriters was the real creative force; songs with samples will often have lots of unrecognizable names; and I've always valued producers as being more critical to a song's success than songwriters.
- joe_the_user 13y agoOn HN of all places we should value the creative process. I think we should do so even when we don't agree with the content, as long as there are no ethical/legal issues. Well, the article like argument that the process going is less creative than it seems. I suspect hackers would love if software could 5% of pop songs. If a person with a formula writes 5% of pop songs, somehow it appeals less and seems less creative. I agree though articulating exactly why might be hard.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- viraptor 13y agoNot surprised by the other bands from the list, but Bon Jovi? That was very surprising to me. I always thought he had fairly original songs. It's not like they've only done one or two known albums and disappeared.
- tool 13y agoI used to be very fascinated by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stock_Aitken_Waterman http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stock_Aitken_Waterman a group that produced many of 80's pop hits and didn't think that there would be a "more modern" equivalent that could stand up to them.
- pavpanchekha 13y agoMany of us on Hacker News dislike pop music. And there are good reasons to do so, but its popularity alone should not be one. I like to remind myself some of the greatest music in the world was once pop music. For example, J. S. Bach used to perform at the Café Zimmerman in Leipzig[1]. Could you imagine going into a coffeehouse and listening to Bach playing a Teleman concerto? Or a flute concerto of his own? Now, I'm not saying that the Backstreet Boys have the musical genius of Bach. But neither should you discard their music because it is popular and overplayed. Would the world be better off had they never sung? "The [Café Zimmerman] was destroyed during an air raid on Leipzig in December 1943." [1] I would have loved to stand inside it. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Café_Zimmermann http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Café_Zimmermann
- Dewie 13y ago> And there are good reasons to do so, but its popularity alone should not be one. It's its popularity, alone, that forces me to have to listen to it. Sometimes. I don't believe that people can have "bad taste in music", or that pop music is bad. But I'd rather listen to what I like, which I guess is why I shun the radio.
- BugBrother 13y agoWell, I do hate -- Max Martin and other slimy pop makes it embarrassing to be Swedish. :-) At least there is Meshuggah and other good Swedish stuff to be proud of. And yes, some of that is pop.
- phil 13y agoGreat NYer profile of another pop hit lyricist & production team: http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2012/03/26/120326fa_fact_seabrook http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2012/03/26/120326fa_fact_...
- smackfu 13y agoYou would also be shocked by how many pop songs Ryan Tedder from OneRepublic has written.
- eaurouge 13y agoI'm not. But that's only because I heard his interview on All Things Considered in 2012 [1]. Really like the song he wrote for Leona Lewis. 1. http://www.npr.org/2012/01/15/145233608/ryan-tedder-a-hit-maker-with-a-golden-touch http://www.npr.org/2012/01/15/145233608/ryan-tedder-a-hit-ma...
- hnriot 13y agoI clearly don't share the musical taste of most developers - I love most of the music he has written. I'm probably not the target demographic (more like the target's dad) but I still love pop music as much as I did when I was a teenager in love with Agnetha Faltskog.
- yetanotherphd 13y agoI have a lot of respect for someone who can earn that much money with honest work. And those were mostly good songs, well written and arranged, and very suited to the singer, except for 22 which sucks.
- alexvr 13y agoI'm an elitist when it comes to music, but I admitted to myself that Taylor Swift's I Knew You Were Trouble and a couple Backstreet Boys' songs are catchy, well-composed tunes. Good melodies are good melodies. But I'm glad I don't have to credit Taylor Swift anymore :p A lot of these songs have much more musical merit than a lot of pretentious indie songs, which tend to be repetitive and lacking in melody. Contrary to unpopular belief (by the "hip" minority), you're not necessarily unsophisticated if you enjoy a wildly popular band like Coldplay.
- Ensorceled 13y ago"Virtually Every"? He doesn't even compare to someone like Kara DioGuardi let alone "writing virtually every major pop song" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kara_DioGuardi#Professional_songwriter http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kara_DioGuardi#Professional_son...
- keerthiko 13y agoI have always been a fan of trashy pop (too busy still listening to "As Long as You Love Me" 10 years later to have any shame). I remember when I was 13 and used to read all the pocket leaflets from audio tapes I would buy. And reading the entirety of the fine print/credits for all my favourite songs after I'd memorized the lyrics (backwards too). I remember coming across Max Martin and Denniz Pop prominently figuring in just about every single one of my favourite songs. I would be amazed to find a song I liked that didn't mention at least Max Martin. I was amused to find this consistent across BSB, NSync and Britney Spears (and I didn't like very many of her songs). I always thought to myself "This man, whoever he is, whatever he does, is a genius, because he seems to be the only real common factor across all my favourite trashy pop songs. Why isn't he the most important man in pop music?" I got over my obsession over the backgrounds of pop musicians shortly. But I still find my favourite songs (within my understandably terrible taste according to those with a finer appreciation for the arts) to often be Max Martin produced. He deserves a lot of respect and credit for not only dominating his field and picking the right talent to work with, but moreso for keeping up with the trends and times (or defining them?), entertaining teenagers and youngsters for multiple generations even as he grew older. That is definitely no easy feat, in music, movies, social media (hi Facebook) or any other industry. As a game designer, I hope I can develop that talent to cater to the most important demographics in my industry even as I outgrow it.