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Wow. This is low. The statement is absolute bullshit too: "In this instance, the New York City team was a bit too ambitious and we'll make sure they tone down

Wow. This is low. The statement is absolute bullshit too: "In this instance, the New York City team was a bit too ambitious and we'll make sure they tone down their sales tactics." No, this is unacceptable. This sort of fraudulent behavior deserves consequences larger than "hey, stop that". I live in NYC. The Uber app has now been banished from my phone. It's too bad the Gett app is kind of an unpolished turd.

jackgavigan 13y ago
Well, they say you can't make an omelette without breaking some legs.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
67726e 13y ago
I wonder if what they did could be considered criminal. Back in highschool a friend of mine did the "order a dozen pizzas to someone's house" prank and he got caught doing it. Though nothing came of it, a police officer told him he could have been charged under a crime called "Defrauding an innkeeper" for ordering a service/product under false pretenses.
- joosters 13y ago
  TFA: "If Uber employees intentionally diverted Gett drivers from legitimate business by making phony calls, that is an unfair business practice, illegal under California law," he said. "It is also an intentional interference with Gett's business which makes them liable for money damages."
  - 67726e 13y ago
    Except the incident occurred in New York state and they consulted someone about California state law? I'd guess most states have similar laws so it is a bit of a moot point.
    - Pxtl 13y ago
      Well, I assume they only had a California lawyer handy and he could only speak to California's laws for reference.
    - tvon 13y ago
      Uber is based in San Francisco, which may be why they asked a San Francisco-based attorney.
    - yapcguy 13y ago
      I am not a lawyer but if anyone out there is... If the criminal/fraudulent activity which occurred in New York was directed from management based in California, wouldn't the crime become a federal one? What if the e-mail trail reveals similar activity in multiple states directed by managers in San Francisco?
      - dragonwriter 13y ago
        > If the criminal/fraudulent activity which occurred in New York was directed from management based in California, wouldn't the crime become a federal one? No, though that may make it so that a federal crime (e.g., wire fraud) was committed in addition to any state crime that was committed.
      - at-fates-hands 13y ago
        Not necessarily. Charges can brought in multiple states at the same time, for the same crime which doesn't violate fifth amendment protection of double jeopardy. It's known as the dual sovereignty doctrine. The FBI only gets involved in the most serious of cases such as organized crime, drugs, gangs, terrorism, cyber crime, etc. What the FBI investigates: http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/what_we_investigate http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/what_we_investigate Info on the dual sovereignty doctrine: http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-rights/charged-twice-in-different-states.html http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-rights/charged-twice-in...
- deleted 13y ago
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baddox 13y ago
> No, this is unacceptable. This sort of fraudulent behavior deserves consequences larger than "hey, stop that". If you're suggesting that they should be prosecuted, then we can argue that, but Uber is not able to prosecute members of its team. What do you expect Uber to do, other than to stop the behavior?
- ig1 13y ago
  Well Uber can dismiss the employees. But Gett can take Uber to court, and possibly make a criminal complaint.
- jessedhillon 13y ago
  Fire people?
- jtbigwoo 13y ago
  I can't believe they haven't fired the employees that did it and the management that allowed it.
- potatolicious 13y ago
  Uber is fully within their rights to levy punishments (up to and including firing) for members of its team. In this forum we talk constantly about onerous government regulations and the long arm of the law. There are many perfectly legal ways companies can punish or sanction its employees, and IMO it's an eminently good idea to do so. If you don't want to the government getting all up in your face you're going to have to self-regulate to some degree. Punishing employees who behave unethically is a part of this.
  - techreporter 13y ago
    Another commenter below said he knows an Uber employee in Boston where they not only employ the same tactics with other competitors but also have names for it such as ShopLyfting and SideSwiping. It looks like this is Uber's culture and not just a few employees in one office behaving unethically. The article also mentions that everyone from the General Manager down were involved in this. The GM is basically the head for a given city. That tells you how far up the chain the lack of ethics goes.
eridius 13y ago
It's pretty clear they were doing this to harvest phone numbers of drivers (why does Gett give out their drivers' phone numbers?) rather than any attempt to actually disrupt Gett's business. I would be rather hesitant to call this "fraud", as that's a very serious allegation.
- doktrin 13y ago
  > I would be rather hesitant to call this "fraud" How exactly is this not fraud?
  - HillRat 13y ago
    I'd say it's more of "tortious interference." If true, this was -- to paraphrase Fouché -- worse than a crime, it was stupid. It seems that Uber is so blasé about the tidal flood of lawsuits it's facing that it is willing to court more.
- samolang 13y ago
  And they paid cancellation fees.
  - enjo 13y ago
    What is Gett's cancellation policy?
  - ryguytilidie 13y ago
    ...after what they were doing was exposed.
    - pc86 13y ago
      No, they paid cancellation fees because you get charged when you cancel. This wasn't "Oh, sorry, here's $10."
      - encoderer 13y ago
GarrettBeck 13y ago
There are consequences larger than "hey, stop that." Even Uber's legal representation said they could be liable for damages: If Uber employees intentionally diverted Gett drivers from legitimate business by making phony calls, that is an unfair business practice, illegal under California law," he said. "It is also an intentional interference with Gett's business which makes them liable for money damages.
- aetherson 13y ago
  That's not Uber's legal representation, it's "San Francisco-based attorney Drexel Bradshaw." Nowhere does it suggest that Bradshaw is associated with Uber. Here is Mr. Bradshaw's profile page from his law firm (from a cursory Google search): http://www.bradshawassociates.com/Bio/DrexelBradshaw.php http://www.bradshawassociates.com/Bio/DrexelBradshaw.php
debt 13y ago
You hire a sales team to sell your product. They're the least invested in the overall business, they have the highest turnover rate of any other department. Typically, they're young, inexperienced, right out of college. Typically, this isn't their only job. Most care less about the overall viability of the company or the company image then they do about making a sale and a commission. The balance between sales and the long-term vision of a business is hard. You need people that are driven but are interested in sticking it out. Sales has a high-level of burn out so it's hard to get someone driven and interested in staying long-term at a company. This Uber thing is salespeople doing whatever it takes to get that commission. Uber maybe needs to reinvent their sales incentive structure the same way they've reinvented ridesharing.
- smirksirlot 13y ago
  When the Uber NYC General Manager is doing it I would hardly put it on sales.
- jhonovich 13y ago
  "Uber maybe needs to reinvent their sales incentive structure the same way they've reinvented ridesharing." They don't need to reinvent anything here. Lots of companies have salespeople with no experience and a high turnover rate. Yet they rarely directly sabotage their competitors.
chourobin 13y ago
Same here, good bye Uber.

jackgavigan 13y ago

Well, they say you can't make an omelette without breaking some legs.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

67726e 13y ago

I wonder if what they did could be considered criminal. Back in highschool a friend of mine did the "order a dozen pizzas to someone's house" prank and he got caught doing it. Though nothing came of it, a police officer told him he could have been charged under a crime called "Defrauding an innkeeper" for ordering a service/product under false pretenses.

joosters 13y ago
TFA: "If Uber employees intentionally diverted Gett drivers from legitimate business by making phony calls, that is an unfair business practice, illegal under California law," he said. "It is also an intentional interference with Gett's business which makes them liable for money damages."
- 67726e 13y ago
  Except the incident occurred in New York state and they consulted someone about California state law? I'd guess most states have similar laws so it is a bit of a moot point.
  - Pxtl 13y ago
    Well, I assume they only had a California lawyer handy and he could only speak to California's laws for reference.
  - tvon 13y ago
    Uber is based in San Francisco, which may be why they asked a San Francisco-based attorney.
  - yapcguy 13y ago
    I am not a lawyer but if anyone out there is... If the criminal/fraudulent activity which occurred in New York was directed from management based in California, wouldn't the crime become a federal one? What if the e-mail trail reveals similar activity in multiple states directed by managers in San Francisco?
    - dragonwriter 13y ago
      > If the criminal/fraudulent activity which occurred in New York was directed from management based in California, wouldn't the crime become a federal one? No, though that may make it so that a federal crime (e.g., wire fraud) was committed in addition to any state crime that was committed.
    - at-fates-hands 13y ago
      Not necessarily. Charges can brought in multiple states at the same time, for the same crime which doesn't violate fifth amendment protection of double jeopardy. It's known as the dual sovereignty doctrine. The FBI only gets involved in the most serious of cases such as organized crime, drugs, gangs, terrorism, cyber crime, etc. What the FBI investigates: http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/what_we_investigate http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/what_we_investigate Info on the dual sovereignty doctrine: http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-rights/charged-twice-in-different-states.html http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-rights/charged-twice-in...
deleted 13y ago
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deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

baddox 13y ago

> No, this is unacceptable. This sort of fraudulent behavior deserves consequences larger than "hey, stop that". If you're suggesting that they should be prosecuted, then we can argue that, but Uber is not able to prosecute members of its team. What do you expect Uber to do, other than to stop the behavior?

ig1 13y ago
Well Uber can dismiss the employees. But Gett can take Uber to court, and possibly make a criminal complaint.
jessedhillon 13y ago
Fire people?
jtbigwoo 13y ago
I can't believe they haven't fired the employees that did it and the management that allowed it.
potatolicious 13y ago
Uber is fully within their rights to levy punishments (up to and including firing) for members of its team. In this forum we talk constantly about onerous government regulations and the long arm of the law. There are many perfectly legal ways companies can punish or sanction its employees, and IMO it's an eminently good idea to do so. If you don't want to the government getting all up in your face you're going to have to self-regulate to some degree. Punishing employees who behave unethically is a part of this.
- techreporter 13y ago
  Another commenter below said he knows an Uber employee in Boston where they not only employ the same tactics with other competitors but also have names for it such as ShopLyfting and SideSwiping. It looks like this is Uber's culture and not just a few employees in one office behaving unethically. The article also mentions that everyone from the General Manager down were involved in this. The GM is basically the head for a given city. That tells you how far up the chain the lack of ethics goes.

eridius 13y ago

It's pretty clear they were doing this to harvest phone numbers of drivers (why does Gett give out their drivers' phone numbers?) rather than any attempt to actually disrupt Gett's business. I would be rather hesitant to call this "fraud", as that's a very serious allegation.

doktrin 13y ago
> I would be rather hesitant to call this "fraud" How exactly is this not fraud?
- HillRat 13y ago
  I'd say it's more of "tortious interference." If true, this was -- to paraphrase Fouché -- worse than a crime, it was stupid. It seems that Uber is so blasé about the tidal flood of lawsuits it's facing that it is willing to court more.
samolang 13y ago
And they paid cancellation fees.
- enjo 13y ago
  What is Gett's cancellation policy?
- ryguytilidie 13y ago
  ...after what they were doing was exposed.
  - pc86 13y ago
    No, they paid cancellation fees because you get charged when you cancel. This wasn't "Oh, sorry, here's $10."
    - encoderer 13y ago

GarrettBeck 13y ago

There are consequences larger than "hey, stop that." Even Uber's legal representation said they could be liable for damages: If Uber employees intentionally diverted Gett drivers from legitimate business by making phony calls, that is an unfair business practice, illegal under California law," he said. "It is also an intentional interference with Gett's business which makes them liable for money damages.

aetherson 13y ago
That's not Uber's legal representation, it's "San Francisco-based attorney Drexel Bradshaw." Nowhere does it suggest that Bradshaw is associated with Uber. Here is Mr. Bradshaw's profile page from his law firm (from a cursory Google search): http://www.bradshawassociates.com/Bio/DrexelBradshaw.php http://www.bradshawassociates.com/Bio/DrexelBradshaw.php

debt 13y ago

You hire a sales team to sell your product. They're the least invested in the overall business, they have the highest turnover rate of any other department. Typically, they're young, inexperienced, right out of college. Typically, this isn't their only job. Most care less about the overall viability of the company or the company image then they do about making a sale and a commission. The balance between sales and the long-term vision of a business is hard. You need people that are driven but are interested in sticking it out. Sales has a high-level of burn out so it's hard to get someone driven and interested in staying long-term at a company. This Uber thing is salespeople doing whatever it takes to get that commission. Uber maybe needs to reinvent their sales incentive structure the same way they've reinvented ridesharing.

smirksirlot 13y ago
When the Uber NYC General Manager is doing it I would hardly put it on sales.
jhonovich 13y ago
"Uber maybe needs to reinvent their sales incentive structure the same way they've reinvented ridesharing." They don't need to reinvent anything here. Lots of companies have salespeople with no experience and a high turnover rate. Yet they rarely directly sabotage their competitors.

chourobin 13y ago

Same here, good bye Uber.