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Woz did things everyone knows they can't do, so he's marginalized as a freak. Jobs did things everyone thinks they can do, so he's worshipped as a god. I'm ha

Woz did things everyone knows they can't do, so he's marginalized as a freak. Jobs did things everyone thinks they can do, so he's worshipped as a god. I'm half-kidding. Half not.

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
JAFTEM 13y ago
Many people usually go under-appreciated for their work that leads to major engineering feats. It seems to me that society likes to look at the past and attribute one thing or one person to what changed everything, when in reality it is the accumulation of several events that lead to major breakthroughs. Thomas Edison never invented the light bulb, but he did find a filament for the incandescent lamp so that it could be mass produced.
- WalterBright 13y ago
  Edison invented a practical light bulb. He also invented the industry that was able to deliver power to homes so they could use those light bulbs.
  - JAFTEM 13y ago
    Which is what I said and my point stands: how many people can actually give the correct answer to who created the first light bulb? Edison was attributed all of the credit when he built off the work of others, which isn't to say that's a bad thing but that this is usually how breakthroughs usually come about.
    - WalterBright 13y ago
      I have mixed feelings about the "correct" answer. Davy showed that wires glowed when enough current was passed through them. Does that count? Swan improved on that with his lightbulb lasting longer, but a few minutes life is incomplete. Edison finished the invention. Me, I tend to give the credit for the invention to Edison, while acknowledging that he stood on the shoulders of others. It's how credit is done for most inventions.
      - markdennehy 13y ago
        You might give more credit to the hundred or so people (all the equivalent of our PhD graduates today) who were doing the actual work for him. Edison's contribution was to pay them enough so they could eat and live, and point them at a project. And Edison's an even more interesting example to bring up in a Jobs discussion because of the whole history between himself and Tesla (and if nothing else tells you about the man's character, the elephant-electrocuting nonsense during the current wars would tell you all you needed to know).
        WalterBright 13y ago
        > Edison's contribution was to pay them enough so they could eat and live, and point them at a project. Edison's long string of inventions suggest his contribution was far more than that. (And the money used to pay his staff came from his prior inventions, Edison was not born rich.) > elephant-electrocuting nonsense We find that reprehensible today. But people at the time did not, and it's better to judge him in the context of his time.
  - xerophtye 13y ago
    >He also invented the industry that was able to deliver power to homes so they could use those light bulbs. Correct me if i am wrong, but i thought Edison was a proponent of DC current, rather than AC (it was tesla who pushed AC). I might have those two mixed up though.
    - WalterBright 13y ago
      You are correct. The industry was invented by Edison using DC; AC was an improvement that came later.
nostromo 13y ago
To me they are the quintessential yin-yang startup duo. You don't have to pick a favorite. You don't need to figure out which one pulled more weight. It seems likely that if you removed one, the other would have failed. edit: chill out folks, I don't mean either guy would have been a penniless itinerant without the other. I'm saying they were much more successful together than apart. I know it's popular here to hate on the charismatic businessperson and praise the technical genius, but the best companies will have both.
- phaus 13y ago
  You should read or reread Woz's comment from OP. He was already quite successful, and widely respected. He may not have ended up being a billionaire without Jobs, but he wouldn't have been a failure. Jobs on the other hand struggled in nearly every aspect of his life, he couldn't stick with college, he got a job at Atari based on someone else's work, he was such a giant douche to everyone there that they wanted to fire him, he lied to the few friends he had and manipulated them to get money, he knocked someone up and then pretended that his daughter didn't exist, the list goes on. Steve Wozniak would have had a great life either way. Jobs would probably have died homeless and friendless if Apple never existed. Jobs proved his talents in many ways as the CEO of Apple, but if it weren't for Wozniak, Jobs likely would have never had a chance to show us what he could do.
  - mandeepj 13y ago
    "Jobs would probably have died homeless and friendless if Apple never existed." - so funny. Besides Apple, Pixar and Next made Jobs billionaire too. So, no jobs would not have died homeless and friendless :-) . Jobs was a natural leader and visionary.
    - ehsanu1 13y ago
      You can't really tell either way. The road to NEXT and Pixar was through Apple. And I do hear his role in Pixar is often portrayed as being much more than it really was.
logicallee 13y ago
I think even when there is a single founder, those are the two things you have to do. I think investors, employees, and the public, want/need to be lied to about how easy it all is. You have to do impossible things but then completely deny all the work that goes into it, and act like it's just because you're great.

Woz did things everyone knows they can't do, so he's marginalized as a freak. Jobs did things everyone thinks they can do, so he's worshipped as a god. I'm half-kidding. Half not.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

JAFTEM 13y ago

Many people usually go under-appreciated for their work that leads to major engineering feats. It seems to me that society likes to look at the past and attribute one thing or one person to what changed everything, when in reality it is the accumulation of several events that lead to major breakthroughs. Thomas Edison never invented the light bulb, but he did find a filament for the incandescent lamp so that it could be mass produced.

WalterBright 13y ago
Edison invented a practical light bulb. He also invented the industry that was able to deliver power to homes so they could use those light bulbs.
- JAFTEM 13y ago
  Which is what I said and my point stands: how many people can actually give the correct answer to who created the first light bulb? Edison was attributed all of the credit when he built off the work of others, which isn't to say that's a bad thing but that this is usually how breakthroughs usually come about.
  - WalterBright 13y ago
    I have mixed feelings about the "correct" answer. Davy showed that wires glowed when enough current was passed through them. Does that count? Swan improved on that with his lightbulb lasting longer, but a few minutes life is incomplete. Edison finished the invention. Me, I tend to give the credit for the invention to Edison, while acknowledging that he stood on the shoulders of others. It's how credit is done for most inventions.
    - markdennehy 13y ago
      You might give more credit to the hundred or so people (all the equivalent of our PhD graduates today) who were doing the actual work for him. Edison's contribution was to pay them enough so they could eat and live, and point them at a project. And Edison's an even more interesting example to bring up in a Jobs discussion because of the whole history between himself and Tesla (and if nothing else tells you about the man's character, the elephant-electrocuting nonsense during the current wars would tell you all you needed to know).
      - WalterBright 13y ago
        > Edison's contribution was to pay them enough so they could eat and live, and point them at a project. Edison's long string of inventions suggest his contribution was far more than that. (And the money used to pay his staff came from his prior inventions, Edison was not born rich.) > elephant-electrocuting nonsense We find that reprehensible today. But people at the time did not, and it's better to judge him in the context of his time.
- xerophtye 13y ago
  >He also invented the industry that was able to deliver power to homes so they could use those light bulbs. Correct me if i am wrong, but i thought Edison was a proponent of DC current, rather than AC (it was tesla who pushed AC). I might have those two mixed up though.
  - WalterBright 13y ago
    You are correct. The industry was invented by Edison using DC; AC was an improvement that came later.

nostromo 13y ago

To me they are the quintessential yin-yang startup duo. You don't have to pick a favorite. You don't need to figure out which one pulled more weight. It seems likely that if you removed one, the other would have failed. edit: chill out folks, I don't mean either guy would have been a penniless itinerant without the other. I'm saying they were much more successful together than apart. I know it's popular here to hate on the charismatic businessperson and praise the technical genius, but the best companies will have both.

phaus 13y ago
You should read or reread Woz's comment from OP. He was already quite successful, and widely respected. He may not have ended up being a billionaire without Jobs, but he wouldn't have been a failure. Jobs on the other hand struggled in nearly every aspect of his life, he couldn't stick with college, he got a job at Atari based on someone else's work, he was such a giant douche to everyone there that they wanted to fire him, he lied to the few friends he had and manipulated them to get money, he knocked someone up and then pretended that his daughter didn't exist, the list goes on. Steve Wozniak would have had a great life either way. Jobs would probably have died homeless and friendless if Apple never existed. Jobs proved his talents in many ways as the CEO of Apple, but if it weren't for Wozniak, Jobs likely would have never had a chance to show us what he could do.
- mandeepj 13y ago
  "Jobs would probably have died homeless and friendless if Apple never existed." - so funny. Besides Apple, Pixar and Next made Jobs billionaire too. So, no jobs would not have died homeless and friendless :-) . Jobs was a natural leader and visionary.
  - ehsanu1 13y ago
    You can't really tell either way. The road to NEXT and Pixar was through Apple. And I do hear his role in Pixar is often portrayed as being much more than it really was.

logicallee 13y ago

I think even when there is a single founder, those are the two things you have to do. I think investors, employees, and the public, want/need to be lied to about how easy it all is. You have to do impossible things but then completely deny all the work that goes into it, and act like it's just because you're great.