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This is exactly what paranoid conspiracy loons were saying way back in the 90s was going to happen: panopticon, total surveillance, militarization of police, ma

by api 13y ago

This is exactly what paranoid conspiracy loons were saying way back in the 90s was going to happen: panopticon, total surveillance, militarization of police, massive concentration of wealth and power, detention of authors and critics, etc.

jared314 13y ago
> panopticon, total surveillance, militarization of police, massive concentration of wealth and power, detention of authors and critics, etc. The items you have listed are what paranoid "conspiracy loons" have been predicting, in the US, for the past two hundred+ years. The difference now is how it no longer requires a "large" government to do it.
- whatevsbro 13y ago
  > The difference now is how it no longer requires a large government to do it. That may be, but the US government certainly is large.
  - jared314 13y ago
    > That may be, but the US government certainly is large. I believe you have equated size with capability/control, which is a fallacy. Size allows for capability, but neither, of the two, can be causally linked. The US government can do with 10 people, what previously required 100 or 1,000 people in the recent past. Total control of the population is no longer required to obtain total surveillance. So, the difference now is how it no longer requires a "large" government to do it.
    - angersock 13y ago
      http://www.bls.gov/emp/ep_table_201.htm http://www.bls.gov/emp/ep_table_201.htm Something like 1 in 10 people is employed by the government (state, federal, or local) directly, countless more indirectly. The .gov actually is large, in the strictest sense of the word.
      - jared314 13y ago
        I believe you are speaking past my point. The total size, in number of people employed, does not directly relate to capability. The US government can do with 10 people, what previously required 100 or 1,000 people in the recent past. Total control of the population is no longer required to obtain total surveillance. So, the difference now is how it no longer requires a "large" government to do it.
        angersock 13y ago
        That is true, but again, the government is large on top of that.
        JohnnyBrown 13y ago
        I believe you are speaking past my point. [repeats point]
    - whatevsbro 13y ago
      You were suggesting that with modern technology, surveillance is within even small governments' capabilities. I don't disagree with this, but just wanted to point out that the US government is large too. At least there's a correlation between a government being large and a government being oppressive, right? A small government simply has less influence in the general populace's everyday lives.
- forgottenpaswrd 13y ago
  "The difference now is how it no longer requires a "large" government to do it." How much DARPA research spends compared to civil society?
ilaksh 13y ago
Since you didn't put quotes around that phrase.. People need to understand that using "conspiracy" to dismiss people who accuse the government of criminality was invented by the CIA. And that is just a variation on a tactic that has been used forever -- accusing political dissidents of insanity.http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_abuse_of_psychiatry http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_abuse_of_psychiatry
- a3n 13y ago
  > People need to understand that using "conspiracy" to dismiss people who accuse the government of criminality was invented by the CIA. "The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist." - Keyser Söze, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keyser_S%C3%B6ze https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keyser_S%C3%B6ze
kazagistar 13y ago
Right, they were also saying a great many things that are not true at all. Its easy to point out the couple of true predictions in hindsight.

by api 13y ago

jared314 13y ago

> panopticon, total surveillance, militarization of police, massive concentration of wealth and power, detention of authors and critics, etc. The items you have listed are what paranoid "conspiracy loons" have been predicting, in the US, for the past two hundred+ years. The difference now is how it no longer requires a "large" government to do it.

whatevsbro 13y ago
> The difference now is how it no longer requires a large government to do it. That may be, but the US government certainly is large.
- jared314 13y ago
  > That may be, but the US government certainly is large. I believe you have equated size with capability/control, which is a fallacy. Size allows for capability, but neither, of the two, can be causally linked. The US government can do with 10 people, what previously required 100 or 1,000 people in the recent past. Total control of the population is no longer required to obtain total surveillance. So, the difference now is how it no longer requires a "large" government to do it.
  - angersock 13y ago
    http://www.bls.gov/emp/ep_table_201.htm http://www.bls.gov/emp/ep_table_201.htm Something like 1 in 10 people is employed by the government (state, federal, or local) directly, countless more indirectly. The .gov actually is large, in the strictest sense of the word.
    - jared314 13y ago
      I believe you are speaking past my point. The total size, in number of people employed, does not directly relate to capability. The US government can do with 10 people, what previously required 100 or 1,000 people in the recent past. Total control of the population is no longer required to obtain total surveillance. So, the difference now is how it no longer requires a "large" government to do it.
      - angersock 13y ago
        That is true, but again, the government is large on top of that.
      - JohnnyBrown 13y ago
        I believe you are speaking past my point. [repeats point]
  - whatevsbro 13y ago
    You were suggesting that with modern technology, surveillance is within even small governments' capabilities. I don't disagree with this, but just wanted to point out that the US government is large too. At least there's a correlation between a government being large and a government being oppressive, right? A small government simply has less influence in the general populace's everyday lives.
forgottenpaswrd 13y ago
"The difference now is how it no longer requires a "large" government to do it." How much DARPA research spends compared to civil society?

ilaksh 13y ago

Since you didn't put quotes around that phrase.. People need to understand that using "conspiracy" to dismiss people who accuse the government of criminality was invented by the CIA. And that is just a variation on a tactic that has been used forever -- accusing political dissidents of insanity.http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_abuse_of_psychiatry http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_abuse_of_psychiatry

a3n 13y ago
> People need to understand that using "conspiracy" to dismiss people who accuse the government of criminality was invented by the CIA. "The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist." - Keyser Söze, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keyser_S%C3%B6ze https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keyser_S%C3%B6ze

kazagistar 13y ago

Right, they were also saying a great many things that are not true at all. Its easy to point out the couple of true predictions in hindsight.