5 ms·

Can't tell if joke or not. Have audiophiles gotten The Onion treatment yet? Seems like such low hanging fruit.

calinet6 13y ago
Repeatedly and exhaustively. This is old hat. Really, "laugh at the audiophiles" is a fun game that comes along every so often, but nothing really changes and people stay irrational. This comes as no surprise to a few people and for some reason continues to surprise the vast majority. Meanwhile, sane audiophiles make reasonable purchases and still manage to enjoy music immensely. There's a fine line between sane quality and insane irrationality.
- paol 13y ago
  > people stay irrational In this case I take comfort that the irrationality is self-punishing. If you're that dumb, you deserve to be sold a $700 usb cable.
  - kordless 13y ago
    I don't know about them being dumb. It's a choice, and if you have the money to spend on it, and it's important to you, why not?
    - acchow 13y ago
      > It's a choice, and if you have the money to spend on it, and it's important to you, why not? You're thinking of diamonds, but we're talking about tarot cards.
      - kordless 13y ago
        Diamonds are just as worthless.
    - freehunter 13y ago
      Importance would play a factor if there was any difference. Yeah, I wouldn't buy a $150k 14.2 audio receiver. That's way overkill, and way out of my price range. But a theater owner might, because it has the hookups he needs and provides incredible sound quality. That's what's important to him, and there's a difference between that receiver and an iPod. In this case, there's no difference between this $700 cable and a $5 cable from Amazon Basics. It's not about what's important to the person, it's about them not realizing they're being ripped off.
  - mikeash 13y ago
    I'm always fascinated by how willingly we discriminate against the less intelligent (at least down to a certain threshold). Few people would ever say something like, "if you're that blind, you deserve to not be able to read books". But what's the difference, really? I'm not claiming to be better, here. I do the same sort of thing myself. But I find it very damned weird that we've decided this one attribute is acceptable to discriminate against, while so many others are not.
    - scott_karana 13y ago
      I see where you're coming from, but in this case, it's "I can't believe you're so dumb with your purchases, despite all the evidence to the contrary.
      - mikeash 13y ago
        I don't understand, why does that second part make it OK?
        scott_karana 13y ago
        Well, it's slightly different anyways. Blind people don't have a choice. Many of the people here are seeing evidence to the contrary (such as the reviewer trying to "refute" ABX testing) and saying LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU, so I don't know what more anyone can do.
        mikeash 13y ago
        Dumb people don't have a choice either. Part of being dumb is not being good at understanding evidence, such as evidence against an opinion you hold.
        scott_karana 13y ago
        Hmm, I concede your point. I interpreted it a little incorrectly in the first place. :) (I'm still not sure whether people rich enough to afford these cables wouldn't be smart enough to listen to evidence, but that's entirely another point)
Shivetya 13y ago
well the old saying is, audiophiles listen to equipment, not music
jessaustin 13y ago
The comments on TFA seem to be taking it seriously. The linked "audioquest" manufacturer's site is too extensive to be a practical joke, though it's also quite slow.
masklinn 13y ago
> Can't tell if joke or not. It's not. "Audiophiles" are generally off the deep end, the only serious (as in seriously committed to reality) community I've ever seen is on Hydrogenaudio's forums. And they're generally strongly disliked[0] by those roaming sites like TFA. Christopher “Monty” Montgomery, the creator of Ogg and Vorbis and founder of Xiph, is also awesome. He's slowly but surely doing a series of videos + article support on digital media which is accessible to anybody and very interesting: http://xiph.org/video/ http://xiph.org/video/ [0] due to stuff like http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=11442 http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=1144..., how dare they require ABX testing?
- calinet6 13y ago
  Reddit's /r/audiophile is improving and generally highly rational. Recommended (disclaimer: I'm a mod).
nine_k 13y ago
Actually some people objectively (as in 'visible on MRT scans') enjoy certain things more if they know they are somewhat superior, even if the 'superior' thing is the very same thing as the control 'inferior', just labeled differently. There are examples and references in "Thinking fast and slow" by Daniel Kahneman. So the sellers of the $700 digital cable actually sell more enjoyable experience to certain (gullible) people, and do it exactly by putting an exorbitant price tag and raising hype around an otherwise ordinary USB cable. They are not in business of selling exact sound reproduction; they are selling exquisite experiences. And for an experience, emotional details are more important than the dull objectivity of spectrograms. Imagine that you receive a pen as a gift from your loved one, nicely wrapped and solemnly handed. Compare it with an experience of owning the very same pen model which you hastily bought in a store for $10 because you needed something to jot with. The elevated joy of using the gifted pen is not in the pen, but in you and your experience, your memory. Same applies to audiophile equipment, collectible postal stamps, etc. The material thing just serves as a reminding token.
- tlrobinson 13y ago
  Sort of the placebo effect of the audiophile world. Now, the question is do the people who buy $700 cables not knowing it's equivalent to a $10 cable get more enjoyment than the people who know they're equivalent and buy the $10 cable? If so, that's somewhat sad for us educated people. Ignorance is bliss, I guess.
  - nine_k 13y ago
    I assume you heard about status consumption. The fact of paying $700 (and people around knowing it) may be the enjoyable thing; for some it's even worth the $700. The buyer might even never need to plug the cable in :)
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- Dylan16807 13y ago
  Imagine getting a handwrapped solemn gift that you later find out was dug out of the trash and spun into wrapping paper on an assembly line. Memories are nice, but I want them to be mostly real.
logicallee 13y ago
There's this - http://machinadynamica.com/ http://machinadynamica.com/
mikeash 13y ago
It's impossible to satirize audiophiles because the real thing is already so extreme that there's no room for fake humor on top of it.
- Crito 13y ago
  It's possible, but you have to veer sharply off into the surreal. Things like claiming the cable ripped a hole through the fabric of space-time, Elvis popped through said hole, then personally endorsed the cable. Satire is better when it has some air of plausibility, but as you said, audiophiles have already taken up all the material there.
  - rz2k 13y ago
    For reference see the Amazon reviews of the $10,000 Denon Cat-5 cable [1]. [1]amazon.com/Denon-AKDL1-Dedicated-Cable-Version/product-reviews/B000I1X6PM
- masklinn 13y ago
  Demonstration: http://www.elitediffusion.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=8351 http://www.elitediffusion.com/catalog/product_info.php?produ... > The Ultima Signature Mat incorporates unique hand laid-up polarizing filaments creating tremendously rapid vibrational energy decay and a new ultra-thin metallic coating which dissipates static build-up in real-time while the disc is spinning. Yes, you put that thing on your CD before you put said CD in the audio player, magic happens and sound is good. $250. According to "user tests"[0] it improves CD and SACD sound quality, fails to improve DVD image quality but succeeds in improving DVD audio quality. [0] http://www.enjoythemusic.com/audiophileaudition/0705/margiolabs.htm http://www.enjoythemusic.com/audiophileaudition/0705/margiol...
- epsylon 13y ago
  They're a perfect example of Poe's law. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law

Repeatedly and exhaustively. This is old hat. Really, "laugh at the audiophiles" is a fun game that comes along every so often, but nothing really changes and people stay irrational. This comes as no surprise to a few people and for some reason continues to surprise the vast majority. Meanwhile, sane audiophiles make reasonable purchases and still manage to enjoy music immensely. There's a fine line between sane quality and insane irrationality.

paol 13y ago
> people stay irrational In this case I take comfort that the irrationality is self-punishing. If you're that dumb, you deserve to be sold a $700 usb cable.
- kordless 13y ago
  I don't know about them being dumb. It's a choice, and if you have the money to spend on it, and it's important to you, why not?
  - acchow 13y ago
    > It's a choice, and if you have the money to spend on it, and it's important to you, why not? You're thinking of diamonds, but we're talking about tarot cards.
    - kordless 13y ago
      Diamonds are just as worthless.
  - freehunter 13y ago
    Importance would play a factor if there was any difference. Yeah, I wouldn't buy a $150k 14.2 audio receiver. That's way overkill, and way out of my price range. But a theater owner might, because it has the hookups he needs and provides incredible sound quality. That's what's important to him, and there's a difference between that receiver and an iPod. In this case, there's no difference between this $700 cable and a $5 cable from Amazon Basics. It's not about what's important to the person, it's about them not realizing they're being ripped off.
- mikeash 13y ago
  I'm always fascinated by how willingly we discriminate against the less intelligent (at least down to a certain threshold). Few people would ever say something like, "if you're that blind, you deserve to not be able to read books". But what's the difference, really? I'm not claiming to be better, here. I do the same sort of thing myself. But I find it very damned weird that we've decided this one attribute is acceptable to discriminate against, while so many others are not.
  - scott_karana 13y ago
    I see where you're coming from, but in this case, it's "I can't believe you're so dumb with your purchases, despite all the evidence to the contrary.
    - mikeash 13y ago
      I don't understand, why does that second part make it OK?
      - scott_karana 13y ago
        Well, it's slightly different anyways. Blind people don't have a choice. Many of the people here are seeing evidence to the contrary (such as the reviewer trying to "refute" ABX testing) and saying LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU, so I don't know what more anyone can do.
        mikeash 13y ago
        Dumb people don't have a choice either. Part of being dumb is not being good at understanding evidence, such as evidence against an opinion you hold.
        scott_karana 13y ago
        Hmm, I concede your point. I interpreted it a little incorrectly in the first place. :) (I'm still not sure whether people rich enough to afford these cables wouldn't be smart enough to listen to evidence, but that's entirely another point)

Shivetya 13y ago

well the old saying is, audiophiles listen to equipment, not music

jessaustin 13y ago

The comments on TFA seem to be taking it seriously. The linked "audioquest" manufacturer's site is too extensive to be a practical joke, though it's also quite slow.

masklinn 13y ago

> Can't tell if joke or not. It's not. "Audiophiles" are generally off the deep end, the only serious (as in seriously committed to reality) community I've ever seen is on Hydrogenaudio's forums. And they're generally strongly disliked[0] by those roaming sites like TFA. Christopher “Monty” Montgomery, the creator of Ogg and Vorbis and founder of Xiph, is also awesome. He's slowly but surely doing a series of videos + article support on digital media which is accessible to anybody and very interesting: http://xiph.org/video/ http://xiph.org/video/ [0] due to stuff like http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=11442 http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=1144..., how dare they require ABX testing?

calinet6 13y ago
Reddit's /r/audiophile is improving and generally highly rational. Recommended (disclaimer: I'm a mod).

nine_k 13y ago

Actually some people objectively (as in 'visible on MRT scans') enjoy certain things more if they know they are somewhat superior, even if the 'superior' thing is the very same thing as the control 'inferior', just labeled differently. There are examples and references in "Thinking fast and slow" by Daniel Kahneman. So the sellers of the $700 digital cable actually sell more enjoyable experience to certain (gullible) people, and do it exactly by putting an exorbitant price tag and raising hype around an otherwise ordinary USB cable. They are not in business of selling exact sound reproduction; they are selling exquisite experiences. And for an experience, emotional details are more important than the dull objectivity of spectrograms. Imagine that you receive a pen as a gift from your loved one, nicely wrapped and solemnly handed. Compare it with an experience of owning the very same pen model which you hastily bought in a store for $10 because you needed something to jot with. The elevated joy of using the gifted pen is not in the pen, but in you and your experience, your memory. Same applies to audiophile equipment, collectible postal stamps, etc. The material thing just serves as a reminding token.

tlrobinson 13y ago
Sort of the placebo effect of the audiophile world. Now, the question is do the people who buy $700 cables not knowing it's equivalent to a $10 cable get more enjoyment than the people who know they're equivalent and buy the $10 cable? If so, that's somewhat sad for us educated people. Ignorance is bliss, I guess.
- nine_k 13y ago
  I assume you heard about status consumption. The fact of paying $700 (and people around knowing it) may be the enjoyable thing; for some it's even worth the $700. The buyer might even never need to plug the cable in :)
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
Dylan16807 13y ago
Imagine getting a handwrapped solemn gift that you later find out was dug out of the trash and spun into wrapping paper on an assembly line. Memories are nice, but I want them to be mostly real.

logicallee 13y ago

There's this - http://machinadynamica.com/ http://machinadynamica.com/

mikeash 13y ago

It's impossible to satirize audiophiles because the real thing is already so extreme that there's no room for fake humor on top of it.

Crito 13y ago
It's possible, but you have to veer sharply off into the surreal. Things like claiming the cable ripped a hole through the fabric of space-time, Elvis popped through said hole, then personally endorsed the cable. Satire is better when it has some air of plausibility, but as you said, audiophiles have already taken up all the material there.
- rz2k 13y ago
  For reference see the Amazon reviews of the $10,000 Denon Cat-5 cable [1]. [1]amazon.com/Denon-AKDL1-Dedicated-Cable-Version/product-reviews/B000I1X6PM
masklinn 13y ago
Demonstration: http://www.elitediffusion.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=8351 http://www.elitediffusion.com/catalog/product_info.php?produ... > The Ultima Signature Mat incorporates unique hand laid-up polarizing filaments creating tremendously rapid vibrational energy decay and a new ultra-thin metallic coating which dissipates static build-up in real-time while the disc is spinning. Yes, you put that thing on your CD before you put said CD in the audio player, magic happens and sound is good. $250. According to "user tests"[0] it improves CD and SACD sound quality, fails to improve DVD image quality but succeeds in improving DVD audio quality. [0] http://www.enjoythemusic.com/audiophileaudition/0705/margiolabs.htm http://www.enjoythemusic.com/audiophileaudition/0705/margiol...
epsylon 13y ago
They're a perfect example of Poe's law. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law