21 ms·

'Pardon Snowden,' one tech exec tells Obama, report says

150 points by fraqed 13y ago

contextual 13y ago
Edward Snowden is the Martin Luther King Jr. of my generation. History will vindicate this man and hail him as a hero. It's great to see at least one tech exec with the courage to speak up for him.
- mdemare 13y ago
  But why did it have to be Zynga's Mark Pincus...
  - brianbreslin 13y ago
    I was kind of surprised Pincus was in that room. Are our virtual farming habits being analyzed by the NSA too?
    - kylnew 13y ago
      He was another CEO's 'plus one'
      - sp332 13y ago
        Well if you send "Mark Pincus would like to play Presidential Advisor with you!" to enough people, someone will click it :)
  - Theodores 13y ago
    Instead of all of them! Why weren't they unanimous?
    - dmourati 13y ago
      This. One tech ceo can be brushed off by the administration. A room full of hand-picked ceo's all saying the same thing in unison is tough to ignore. You have to wonder, though, whether they all were willing to spend their limited presidential currency shitting on Obama's head. I can't imagine pardon requests are something a president ever wants to entertain.
dpratt 13y ago
"The Obama administration has stated that if Snowden were to return to the United States, he would receive protection under due process laws." That sure is nice of them. How did it get to a point where this is actually up for debate? It sure sounds to me like that's a statement from somebody who thinks that they have options in how Snowden should be treated by the government.
- timje1 13y ago
  Was Manning's treatment due process? Because it seems she was stripped naked and kept in isolation for several years. I think I'll take the exile, thanks Barry.
  - disposition2 13y ago
    Pretty sure the precedent was set before Barry was even in politics. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_Act
    - ajays 13y ago
      Yep. People are "shocked" at Manning's treatment, when Jose Padilla suffered something similar: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_Padilla_%28prisoner%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_Padilla_%28prisoner%2...
  - exit 13y ago
    referring to Obama by "Barry" is off putting, in the way referring to Manning as "he" would be.
    - dredmorbius 13y ago
      "Barry" was Mr. Obama's chosen nickname, and he didn't give it up until college: http://www.newsweek.com/when-barry-became-barack-84255 http://www.newsweek.com/when-barry-became-barack-84255 I think you're reaching looking for an insult here. I'm seeing a lot of grandstanding and assumed affront in this post (Pincas above as well). It's not becoming. People can be asses and still do the right thing on occasion. And sometimes a nickname is just a nickname.
batemanesque 13y ago
well, if a tech exec says it...
cschmidt 13y ago
Here is the list of people who Obama has pardoned: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_pardoned_by_Barack_Obama http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_pardoned_by_Bara... It looks like many of them were just erasing the record of those who committed minor crimes a long time ago. I wonder how you get to be so lucky.
- jnbiche 13y ago
  I don't know, but Obama's been pretty stingy with the pardons compared to past presidents.
  - basch 13y ago
    wait until his last day in office
Draco6slayer 13y ago
With all that's being said about the NSA, and how we should add self-restraint, with all that the government is admitting about the current state of the NSA being bad, why not? If it's that clear that Snowden did the right thing, why not pardon him? I feel that not pardoning Snowden is roughly equivalent to making a statement that people should be in the dark about the government's spying programs, and that the government should be free to spy on its people, unchecked.
- sneak 13y ago
  > roughly equivalent to making a statement that people should be in the dark about the government's spying programs, and that the government should be free to spy on its people, unchecked. That's been the clear attitude of both the Bush and Obama administrations, illustrated through many actions completely unrelated to Snowden.
- rfnslyr 13y ago
  This is the United States government. By pardoning snowman they set a dangerous precedent. Let's say they pardon snowden, in the future, if more whistleblowers appear, all they have to do is say "but snowden was pardoned!" And then what?
  - actionscripted 13y ago
    I understand the potentially precarious position this puts the government in with regards to handling leaks and whistle-blowers in the future but I'm okay with that. Pardon Snowden, pardon (encourage?) future whistle-blowers.
  - adventured 13y ago
    If more people do what Snowden did, and reveal the kind of violations he has, then they too should be pardoned for the same reason he should be. The proper response by the government to future cases is to judge them each case by case.
    - rfnslyr 13y ago
danso 13y ago
Kind of strange that in a discussion that is ostensibly related to the disastrous Healthcare.gov, that you'd invite the CEO of a gaming company that thrives off of manipulating users through gamification. I know Zynga has been successful in many ways that most could only hope to emulate...but really, there weren't more relevant CEOs to bring to the table? But good for Pincus for asking the question. How embarrassing it is for Obama to equivocate on morality and principles with a CEO whose gaming company is often criticized for having neither.
- eplanit 13y ago
  "Kind of strange that in a discussion that is ostensibly related to the disastrous Healthcare.gov, that you'd invite the CEO of a gaming company that thrives off of manipulating users through gamification." Not strange nor a surprise at all when that CEO is a major campaign contributor.
- just2n 13y ago
  To remain off topic: It's not just him. The full quote: "Obama met Tuesday with 15 tech executives, including Apple CEO Tim Cook, Google Chairman Eric Schmidt, Facebook COO Sheryl Sandberg, Yahoo CEO Marissa Mayer, and Twitter CEO Dick Costolo, with the official purpose of discussing how his administration can improve its Healthcare.gov Web site." None of these people seem particularly good candidates for a discussion on how to make healthcare.gov better. It's also highly questionable that only highly ranking executives were invited. It feels to me this was more of a face saving publicity stunt or a talking point. It would've been more useful and cheaper for Obama to just have Google or Yahoo build a replacement healthcare.gov website, or open source the task and ask them for contributions. Where's the "let's get shit done" focus?
wavefunction 13y ago
Until that exec is willing to state their support for a pardon in public, this is all just a bunch of PR for Obama and the big tech companies.
ilamont 13y ago
This is a self-serving opportunity for Mark Pincus to look like the good guy, after years of acting like a tyrant when he was in charge of Zynga. I'm not just talking about pushing games designed to exploit users in various ways. Remember the incident where Pincus "demanded certain employees surrender some shares or be fired"? (1) He also laid off more than 500 people earlier this year,(2) managed problems by "address(ing) the symptoms rather than the root causes"(3) and padded his own nest while loyal investors who stuck with Zynga stock got roasted.(4) Appearing in a photo opp with Obama and saying "free Snowden" is a low risk way for him to improve his image among his peers (rich Silicon Valley people) and the public. 1. http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052970204621904577018373223480802 http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB1000142405297020462190... 2. http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/gaming/2013/06/03/zynga-layoffs-mark-pincus/2385291/ http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/gaming/2013/06/03/zynga-l... 3. http://www.fastcompany.com/3007544/where-are-they-now/mark-pincuss-clowns-are-still-haunting-zynga http://www.fastcompany.com/3007544/where-are-they-now/mark-p... 4. http://www.forbes.com/sites/ryanmac/2013/07/01/the-fall-of-mark-pincus-from-billionaire-to-zyngas-former-ceo/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/ryanmac/2013/07/01/the-fall-of-m...
- ankitml 13y ago
  If someone is doing seemingly morally correct thing with a self serving intention, he still takes the credit.
  - wavefunction 13y ago
    He can try to take credit all he wants, it's up to the rest of us if it means anything.
- sneak 13y ago
  There's a big fat line between being a dick of a manager (it's not illegal to say "surrender shares or be fired", simply asshole-tinted capitalism) and imprisoning someone for life for performing a heroic act (involving sacrificing his own personal freedom) to uphold some of the most important ideals of our society. Please learn the difference between "asshole" and "evil". You can be a stark raging asshole (e.g. Pincus, or weev) and still not be criminal, such as the activities of Obama, the DNI, and the NSA.
amerika_blog 13y ago
Shoot him in the face. Otherwise, there's no incentive for anyone to do the right thing. Many things need to be kept secrets. (And yes, I know this will infuriate many of you who will busily downvote. Enjoy your imaginary internet points and other salves for your damaged self-esteem and personal instability.)
Bahamut 13y ago
Just a note, the president cannot pardon someone who has not been convicted yet I believe.
- nknighthb 13y ago
  Have you heard of Richard Nixon and Gerald Ford? What about Jimmy Carter and the Vietnam draft evasion pardons?
- dllthomas 13y ago
  That is incorrect.
znowi 13y ago
Now wait and see how top tech execs will be gaining cheap karma points during this "call for reform" campaign.
walshemj 13y ago
The last thing Ed Snowden needs is a shady character like Pinicus vouching for him what next will Donald Trump get in the act or gorgeous George Galloway MP. He needs some higher quality supporters if he does want to negotiate a way out of his predicament
mikeash 13y ago
My first reaction was, "Cool!" Then I got to thinking about it a little more, and I can't figure out why this is the least bit interesting. "Pardon Snowden" is a pretty common sentiment among the tech crowd. And tech execs generally follow the same sort of opinions as the rest of us. I'm sure there are substantial differences, but there's no surprise that there would be tech execs who think Snowden should be pardoned. So then what is the supposed surprise? That the guy was brave enough to actually voice his opinion to the President? This is not the USSR and you don't get thrown in the gulag for expressing an opinion that the President disagrees with.
pablovidal85 13y ago
Obama cannot pardon somebody who's not a criminal, in any case he may be a witness or a liar.
peatmoss 13y ago
Pardoning Snowden has practical upsides for the President and NSA apart from morals, ethics, or scoring popularity points with tech execs. Namely, by pardoning Snowden, there's a good chance they can get him back on U.S. soil and possibly prevent more leaks that are damaging in other ways. It strikes me that much of Snowden's original leaking was protecting civil liberties for U.S. citizens--let's call that patriotism. And it seems that reasonable people and federal judges agree that knowing about and fixing these abuses is a Good Thing. As it stands now, the heavy handed government rhetoric / smear campaign, combined with the threat of legal (or worse, extra-legal) penalties at home, might make anyone skittish. And a skittish guy with a whole lot of government secrets seems like a Bad Thing. So, let's bring this guy home and throw him some parades before Russia, China, Iran, and everyone else knows everything about our cyber warfare capacity--i.e. "legitimate" spy stuff that all nations take part in.

150 points by fraqed 13y ago

Edward Snowden is the Martin Luther King Jr. of my generation. History will vindicate this man and hail him as a hero. It's great to see at least one tech exec with the courage to speak up for him.

mdemare 13y ago
But why did it have to be Zynga's Mark Pincus...
- brianbreslin 13y ago
  I was kind of surprised Pincus was in that room. Are our virtual farming habits being analyzed by the NSA too?
  - kylnew 13y ago
    He was another CEO's 'plus one'
    - sp332 13y ago
      Well if you send "Mark Pincus would like to play Presidential Advisor with you!" to enough people, someone will click it :)
- Theodores 13y ago
  Instead of all of them! Why weren't they unanimous?
  - dmourati 13y ago
    This. One tech ceo can be brushed off by the administration. A room full of hand-picked ceo's all saying the same thing in unison is tough to ignore. You have to wonder, though, whether they all were willing to spend their limited presidential currency shitting on Obama's head. I can't imagine pardon requests are something a president ever wants to entertain.

dpratt 13y ago

"The Obama administration has stated that if Snowden were to return to the United States, he would receive protection under due process laws." That sure is nice of them. How did it get to a point where this is actually up for debate? It sure sounds to me like that's a statement from somebody who thinks that they have options in how Snowden should be treated by the government.

timje1 13y ago
Was Manning's treatment due process? Because it seems she was stripped naked and kept in isolation for several years. I think I'll take the exile, thanks Barry.
- disposition2 13y ago
  Pretty sure the precedent was set before Barry was even in politics. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_Act
  - ajays 13y ago
    Yep. People are "shocked" at Manning's treatment, when Jose Padilla suffered something similar: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_Padilla_%28prisoner%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_Padilla_%28prisoner%2...
- exit 13y ago
  referring to Obama by "Barry" is off putting, in the way referring to Manning as "he" would be.
  - dredmorbius 13y ago
    "Barry" was Mr. Obama's chosen nickname, and he didn't give it up until college: http://www.newsweek.com/when-barry-became-barack-84255 http://www.newsweek.com/when-barry-became-barack-84255 I think you're reaching looking for an insult here. I'm seeing a lot of grandstanding and assumed affront in this post (Pincas above as well). It's not becoming. People can be asses and still do the right thing on occasion. And sometimes a nickname is just a nickname.

batemanesque 13y ago

well, if a tech exec says it...

cschmidt 13y ago

Here is the list of people who Obama has pardoned: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_pardoned_by_Barack_Obama http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_pardoned_by_Bara... It looks like many of them were just erasing the record of those who committed minor crimes a long time ago. I wonder how you get to be so lucky.

jnbiche 13y ago
I don't know, but Obama's been pretty stingy with the pardons compared to past presidents.
- basch 13y ago
  wait until his last day in office

Draco6slayer 13y ago

With all that's being said about the NSA, and how we should add self-restraint, with all that the government is admitting about the current state of the NSA being bad, why not? If it's that clear that Snowden did the right thing, why not pardon him? I feel that not pardoning Snowden is roughly equivalent to making a statement that people should be in the dark about the government's spying programs, and that the government should be free to spy on its people, unchecked.

sneak 13y ago
> roughly equivalent to making a statement that people should be in the dark about the government's spying programs, and that the government should be free to spy on its people, unchecked. That's been the clear attitude of both the Bush and Obama administrations, illustrated through many actions completely unrelated to Snowden.
rfnslyr 13y ago
This is the United States government. By pardoning snowman they set a dangerous precedent. Let's say they pardon snowden, in the future, if more whistleblowers appear, all they have to do is say "but snowden was pardoned!" And then what?
- actionscripted 13y ago
  I understand the potentially precarious position this puts the government in with regards to handling leaks and whistle-blowers in the future but I'm okay with that. Pardon Snowden, pardon (encourage?) future whistle-blowers.
- adventured 13y ago
  If more people do what Snowden did, and reveal the kind of violations he has, then they too should be pardoned for the same reason he should be. The proper response by the government to future cases is to judge them each case by case.
  - rfnslyr 13y ago

danso 13y ago

Kind of strange that in a discussion that is ostensibly related to the disastrous Healthcare.gov, that you'd invite the CEO of a gaming company that thrives off of manipulating users through gamification. I know Zynga has been successful in many ways that most could only hope to emulate...but really, there weren't more relevant CEOs to bring to the table? But good for Pincus for asking the question. How embarrassing it is for Obama to equivocate on morality and principles with a CEO whose gaming company is often criticized for having neither.

eplanit 13y ago
"Kind of strange that in a discussion that is ostensibly related to the disastrous Healthcare.gov, that you'd invite the CEO of a gaming company that thrives off of manipulating users through gamification." Not strange nor a surprise at all when that CEO is a major campaign contributor.
just2n 13y ago
To remain off topic: It's not just him. The full quote: "Obama met Tuesday with 15 tech executives, including Apple CEO Tim Cook, Google Chairman Eric Schmidt, Facebook COO Sheryl Sandberg, Yahoo CEO Marissa Mayer, and Twitter CEO Dick Costolo, with the official purpose of discussing how his administration can improve its Healthcare.gov Web site." None of these people seem particularly good candidates for a discussion on how to make healthcare.gov better. It's also highly questionable that only highly ranking executives were invited. It feels to me this was more of a face saving publicity stunt or a talking point. It would've been more useful and cheaper for Obama to just have Google or Yahoo build a replacement healthcare.gov website, or open source the task and ask them for contributions. Where's the "let's get shit done" focus?

wavefunction 13y ago

Until that exec is willing to state their support for a pardon in public, this is all just a bunch of PR for Obama and the big tech companies.

ilamont 13y ago

This is a self-serving opportunity for Mark Pincus to look like the good guy, after years of acting like a tyrant when he was in charge of Zynga. I'm not just talking about pushing games designed to exploit users in various ways. Remember the incident where Pincus "demanded certain employees surrender some shares or be fired"? (1) He also laid off more than 500 people earlier this year,(2) managed problems by "address(ing) the symptoms rather than the root causes"(3) and padded his own nest while loyal investors who stuck with Zynga stock got roasted.(4) Appearing in a photo opp with Obama and saying "free Snowden" is a low risk way for him to improve his image among his peers (rich Silicon Valley people) and the public. 1. http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052970204621904577018373223480802 http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB1000142405297020462190... 2. http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/gaming/2013/06/03/zynga-layoffs-mark-pincus/2385291/ http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/gaming/2013/06/03/zynga-l... 3. http://www.fastcompany.com/3007544/where-are-they-now/mark-pincuss-clowns-are-still-haunting-zynga http://www.fastcompany.com/3007544/where-are-they-now/mark-p... 4. http://www.forbes.com/sites/ryanmac/2013/07/01/the-fall-of-mark-pincus-from-billionaire-to-zyngas-former-ceo/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/ryanmac/2013/07/01/the-fall-of-m...

ankitml 13y ago
If someone is doing seemingly morally correct thing with a self serving intention, he still takes the credit.
- wavefunction 13y ago
  He can try to take credit all he wants, it's up to the rest of us if it means anything.
sneak 13y ago
There's a big fat line between being a dick of a manager (it's not illegal to say "surrender shares or be fired", simply asshole-tinted capitalism) and imprisoning someone for life for performing a heroic act (involving sacrificing his own personal freedom) to uphold some of the most important ideals of our society. Please learn the difference between "asshole" and "evil". You can be a stark raging asshole (e.g. Pincus, or weev) and still not be criminal, such as the activities of Obama, the DNI, and the NSA.

amerika_blog 13y ago

Shoot him in the face. Otherwise, there's no incentive for anyone to do the right thing. Many things need to be kept secrets. (And yes, I know this will infuriate many of you who will busily downvote. Enjoy your imaginary internet points and other salves for your damaged self-esteem and personal instability.)

Bahamut 13y ago

Just a note, the president cannot pardon someone who has not been convicted yet I believe.

nknighthb 13y ago
Have you heard of Richard Nixon and Gerald Ford? What about Jimmy Carter and the Vietnam draft evasion pardons?
dllthomas 13y ago
That is incorrect.

znowi 13y ago

Now wait and see how top tech execs will be gaining cheap karma points during this "call for reform" campaign.

walshemj 13y ago

The last thing Ed Snowden needs is a shady character like Pinicus vouching for him what next will Donald Trump get in the act or gorgeous George Galloway MP. He needs some higher quality supporters if he does want to negotiate a way out of his predicament

mikeash 13y ago

My first reaction was, "Cool!" Then I got to thinking about it a little more, and I can't figure out why this is the least bit interesting. "Pardon Snowden" is a pretty common sentiment among the tech crowd. And tech execs generally follow the same sort of opinions as the rest of us. I'm sure there are substantial differences, but there's no surprise that there would be tech execs who think Snowden should be pardoned. So then what is the supposed surprise? That the guy was brave enough to actually voice his opinion to the President? This is not the USSR and you don't get thrown in the gulag for expressing an opinion that the President disagrees with.

pablovidal85 13y ago

Obama cannot pardon somebody who's not a criminal, in any case he may be a witness or a liar.

peatmoss 13y ago

Pardoning Snowden has practical upsides for the President and NSA apart from morals, ethics, or scoring popularity points with tech execs. Namely, by pardoning Snowden, there's a good chance they can get him back on U.S. soil and possibly prevent more leaks that are damaging in other ways. It strikes me that much of Snowden's original leaking was protecting civil liberties for U.S. citizens--let's call that patriotism. And it seems that reasonable people and federal judges agree that knowing about and fixing these abuses is a Good Thing. As it stands now, the heavy handed government rhetoric / smear campaign, combined with the threat of legal (or worse, extra-legal) penalties at home, might make anyone skittish. And a skittish guy with a whole lot of government secrets seems like a Bad Thing. So, let's bring this guy home and throw him some parades before Russia, China, Iran, and everyone else knows everything about our cyber warfare capacity--i.e. "legitimate" spy stuff that all nations take part in.