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Yogaglo Patent Issued
- binarymax 13y agoYogaGlo's own website predates its original filing on Aug. 27, 2010 I was filmed in a Yoga class in 2007 using this technique. I don't have access to the video and am no longer in contact with the instructor, but I remember it happening and then saw the footage with my own eyes. I hope she reads this article and sends in the video as prior art!
- bryans 13y agoUnless the judges presiding over the inevitable lawsuits are complete fools, I don't see this patent ever holding up. The position of a camera inside a room is neither an invention nor patentable, and attaching a new word to an old (and pervasive) methodology does not magically constitute novelty -- in this case, appending "yoga" to "streaming video and audio over the internet."
- moocowduckquack 13y agoThe position of a camera inside a room is neither an invention nor patentable Well it is de-facto patentable, in that this patent was granted.
- krstck 13y agoUnless the judges presiding over the inevitable lawsuits are complete fools, I don't see this patent ever holding up. Maybe not, but are the organizations that Yogaglo will file suit against able to afford a defense? That's why this strikes me as particularly slimy.
- toddwolf79 13y agoThat's the problem, who has the money to argue this in court. You're looking at 6 figures.
- yoodenvranx 13y agoI don't know anything about the US law system so I would really like to understand this: 6 figures? wtf? Why is this so expensive? Is this the cost of the lawyers? Do you have to pay court taxes?
- runako 13y agoPatent attorneys average around $250/hr. That's around $40k/month per attorney. It's not hard to end up in the six figures before even going to trial. http://www.ipwatchdog.com/patent/patent-attorney-fees-explained/ http://www.ipwatchdog.com/patent/patent-attorney-fees-explai...
- dctoedt 13y ago> Patent attorneys average around $250/hr. The survey data cited in the post is from 2001. The post also says: "If you are looking for experienced patent attorneys at a reputable firm you should anticipate hourly rates to be somewhere between $275 to $400 per hour in areas outside major metropolitan areas and somewhere between $400 to $800+ per hour in major metropolitan areas." FYI, patent litigators, who handle infringement claims and validity challenges, generally charge significantly more than those who do patent "prosecution" (that is, prepare and file patent applications and shepherd them through the USPTO examination process).
- kintamanimatt 13y agoAlso, America doesn't have a "loser pays" system, otherwise known as the English Rule. Both parties are responsible for their own costs whether they win or lose under the American Rule. This means that just the threat of a lawsuit is an automatic expense, and winning in court also means losing, just losing less severely. This is generally why parties are so keen to settle, even if they believe they could win in court so as to limit their losses. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_rule_%28attorney%27s_fees%29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_rule_%28attorney%27s_f...
- coldpie 13y agoAnd so a whole bunch of money will be sent to lawyers without anything of value being created in return. I'm becoming increasingly convinced that the patent system creates more harm than it does good.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- kitsune_ 13y agoFrom YogaGlo's blog [1]: "Our patent application clearly outlines that the “look and feel” of a YogaGlo online streaming class is comprised of the following elements that all must be present in conjunction with one another: position of camera, position of the teacher, position of the mats relative to the camera and the teacher, an open corridor down the middle, the teacher must be facing the camera, the students must be facing the teacher, etc. We are not seeking to patent a camera angle. We are not seeking to patent the placement of a teacher in a room (online, offline, in your private studio, in your public studio). We are seeking to patent this one very particular combination of elements for a single online class." This is so ridiculous. [1] http://www.yogaglo.com/blog/2013/09/yogaglo-response-to-todays-news/ http://www.yogaglo.com/blog/2013/09/yogaglo-response-to-toda...
- swatkat 13y agoThey could learn a thing or two from Karma Yoga[1] and Ashtanga Yoga[2]. [1]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karma_Yoga http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karma_Yoga [2]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aparigraha http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aparigraha
- rhizome 13y agoThat would seem to enable the patenting of making a peace sign with your hand and fingers.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- hluska 13y agoYou better file the patent quickly before someone steals your idea....;)
- ateevchopra 13y agohahaha... I guess patent judges will be pretty happy watching porn all day !
- 13y ago
- moocowduckquack 13y agoIs it possible to sue the patent office itself for crass incompetence? Here's the claims, and they are mental: 1. A system for automatically producing a video representation of a yoga class configured so a remote viewer enjoys the experience of being in a real yoga class, the system comprising: a studio having a front area and a rear area; an instructor position located in the front area and facing the rear area; a line of sight corridor disposed between the rear area and the instructor; a plurality of students at student positions, facing the instructor position, distributed across the studio between the instructor position and the image capturing device wherein the student positions do not impinge upon the corridor; an image capturing device for capturing video located in the rear area disposed to provide a participatory view from a height of about three feet by capturing through the line of sight corridor, an unobstructed video of the instructor in the instructor position including images of the students disposed along the sides of the line of sight corridor; and sound capture equipment to capture at least audio of the instructions given by the instructor disposed in the instructor position to the students disposed in the student positions. 2. The system according to claim 1, further comprising remote control systems whereby the image capture device pans and zooms. 3. The system according to claim 1, further comprising means for recording the video. 4. The system according to claim 1, further comprising means for streaming the video via the Internet. 5. The system according to claim 1, further comprising means for adding music to the audio. 6. The system according to claim 1, wherein the instructor position includes an instructor's mat and each student position includes a student mat with each student mat disposed normal to the instructor's mat. 7. The system according to claim 1, wherein the corridor becomes wider near the image capture device. 8. A method for automatically producing a video representation of a yoga class configured so a remote viewer enjoys the experience of being in a real yoga class, comprising the steps of: providing a studio having a front area and a rear area; placing an instructor position at the front area of the studio, the instructor position disposed to face the rear area; locating an image capturing device for capturing video in the rear area at a height of about three feet to allow for a participatory view disposed to provide a participatory view from a height of about three feet by capturing an image of the instructor in the instructor position; laying out a line of sight corridor between the image capturing device and the instructor; distributing a plurality of student positions, facing the instructor position, across the studio between the instructor position and the image capturing device wherein the student positions are distributed so as not to impinge upon the corridor; capturing at least audio of the instructions given by the instructor disposed in the instructor position; and capturing a video of the instructor through the line of sight corridor, which video includes images of the students disposed along the sides of the line of sight corridor. 9. The method according to claim 8, further comprising a step of remotely controlling the image capture device. 10. The method according to claim 8, further comprising the step of recording the video. 11. The method according to claim 8, further comprising the step of streaming the video via the Internet. 12. The method according to claim 8, further comprising the step of adding music to the audio. 13. The method according to claim 8, further comprising a step of placing an instructor's mat in the instructor position and a student mat in each student position with each student mat disposed normal to the instructor's mat. 14. The method according to claim 8, further comprising a step of increasing the width of the corridor near the image capture device. link to patent - http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=8,605,152.PN.&OS=PN/8,605,152&RS=PN/8,605,152 http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=H...
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- TylerE 13y agoNo, sorry. Don't water the term down. A troll is a company that exists only to sue. If they're shipping product they're not a troll.
- clavalle 13y agoPerhaps a patent Duergar. Lawful evil dwarves. They are doing things with their patent and following the law like a industrious dwarf, but they are still evil in that they abuse the process.
- kefka 13y agoNope. THIS is duergar. http://viagina.blogspot.com/2012/11/i-shouldnt-laugh-but.html http://viagina.blogspot.com/2012/11/i-shouldnt-laugh-but.htm...
- jayrox 13y agowtf?
- avisk 13y agoThis clearly shows Yogaglo and the people there did not gain anything by practicing the Yoga they are preaching. They don't have any idea of what Yoga stands for. If Patanjali had patented his Yoga sutras , we may not even be aware about this great practice.
- Jgrubb 13y agoI think that is what has my righteous indignation stoked much higher than the average absurd patent trolling news. I just can't fathom how someone who is supposedly "business minded" in this field could think it was a good idea to patent this, much less to start sending C&Ds to non-profits.
- loceng 13y agoIt just shows us that it's business-minded people in control, who are running, YogaGlo.
- meddlepal 13y agoI will bite, what's so bad about business-minded people running a business?
- rhizome 13y agoYou're casting about in a generalization, but one problem is that there's no such thing as business ethics, and capital is amoral. In case you're going to further ask in-kind whether this means I'm saying the concept of business and/or money itself should be banished, the answer is no.
- lukifer 13y agoWho would you rather buy shoes from: someone who obsesses over making great shoes, or someone who obsesses over making money by any means possible, and has decided that shoes are the optimal means to that end? At best, pure business type are a necessary evil, doing the dirty work that enables people to make a living by offering genuine value. But at worst, they are soulless parasites leeching out every ounce of passion and creativity for a cold, hard buck. "People don't buy what you do, they buy why you do it." http://www.ted.com/talks/simon_sinek_how_great_leaders_inspire_action.html http://www.ted.com/talks/simon_sinek_how_great_leaders_inspi...
- dcaunt 13y agoThere are videos on YouTube converted from 90s DVDs which show classes filmed from the back of the room. This one from a rather famous yoga teacher, Pattabi Jois https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUgtMaAZzW0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUgtMaAZzW0
- aluhut 13y agoI hope karma hits them back for this.
- desireco42 13y agoIf this is not clear example why patents in current form are not working, I don't know what it is. This isn't about how dumb this patent is, it is about how broken the whole sistem is designed.
- hrjet 13y agoThis patent is ridiculous for sure. But let's not bash Yogaglo; it could be a defensive patent for all we know. In a land where ridiculous patent grants are the norm, businesses have an incentive to file patents to protect themselves from patent trolls. What deserves our ire is the patent system. Edit: Thanks for the correction pizza234. The article was not accessible (server HNed I guess). And I assumed that the patent was granted recently enough that benefit of doubt can be given to Yogaglo.
- pizza234 13y agoUnfortunately not: > On September 23rd, Yoga International broke the news that they (among others) had received a cease-and-desist letter from another website which also offers yoga videos for streaming (soon revealed to be YogaGlo) so, feel free to bash it.
- pbhjpbhj 13y agoYou don't need a patent to be defensive. You only need publication. You can get that publication with an A document (published but not examined/granted) if you wish, there are cheaper ways; write it down and have it notarised.
- nitrogen 13y agoIs my understanding mistaken that the new patent laws in the US don't treat unpublished findings as prior art, as part of first to file, so a notarized undisclosed design doesn't count as a public application or publication of the invention?
- pbhjpbhj 13y agoYou're right, it needs to be published - publicly available - and notarised to confirm the date. I'll correct my post. Edit: oh, apparently I'm not allowed to correct my post. The more I'm here the more I'm frustrated by how HN is structured and how opaque its rules are.
- 13y ago
- kd5bjo 13y agoSeems like they pursued the wrong kind of IP protection; the patent office should have denied the application and referred them to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_dress http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_dress .
- rhizome 13y agoTrade dress is more expensive to litigate.
- joe_the_user 13y agoPlus trade dress is a sane, established system that isn't supposed to be used harass and extort businesses who aren't trying impersonate your business.
- toomuchtodo 13y agoWhat's the process to ask the patent office to reexam this patent?
- t0dd 13y agohttp://www.uspto.gov/patents/stats/Reexamination_Information.jsp http://www.uspto.gov/patents/stats/Reexamination_Information... "Filing Compliant Reexamination Requests" http://www.uspto.gov/patents/Best_Practices_and_FAQs_for_filing_reexaminations_5_10_10.pdf http://www.uspto.gov/patents/Best_Practices_and_FAQs_for_fil...
- toomuchtodo 13y agoThanks, I'll file the request Monday.
- t0dd 13y agoNo problem. I am as well. I believe you need to include prior art with the re-examination request. I will be submitting yoga videos, at least from the 90s, such as (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUgtMaAZzW0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUgtMaAZzW0) that certainly raise questions whether the patent is valid or not.
- cmm324 13y agoI think everyone here should post a comment on their announcement telling them how absurd this is. What it means for our nation as a whole, not just yoga videos. Keep the comments clean though, no reason to go all road rage on them. http://www.yogaglo.com/blog/2013/09/yogaglo-response-to-todays-news/#comments http://www.yogaglo.com/blog/2013/09/yogaglo-response-to-toda...
- cmm324 13y agoI posted this comment, it will never make it through moderation, but someone will have to read it. This patent is absurd and has disastrous potential for our already broken patent system for all industries, not just instructional fitness. This just goes to show you how delicate your company is that you feel you need to patent the camera angle that you use when filming a live event. How about stop wasting money and time on frivolous patents and start working on making your product the best in the industry. You will make more money and ultimately have a happier customer base than going around bullying your competitors. GG.
- cloverich 13y agoFWIW, when I go to their facebook page, the most upvoted (top) comment is lambasting them for this. Not a heavy facebook user myself - its mostly my older, non-technical friends - but that makes it the perfect place to post information about how detrimental this type of business practice is.
- alaithea 13y agoIf you're a subscriber, as I was, you can go into your account settings and "Suspend Indefinitely" your account from being charged. There is also a comments section. I'm betting they'll pay a lot more attention to those comments than to ones on a blog post or Facebook, so suspend your accounts if you have them, everybody!
- dl_terp 13y agoI'm no patent expert, so why did we go from a "first to use" system to a "first to file" system? It seems that if we were still the former, this wouldn't be an issue, correct? There were obviously people before YogaGlo using this camera angle, otherwise they wouldn't have gotten the cease and desist. Now businesses (focusing on legal instead of product, which is one of many big misses with our current patent system) can and often must file patents to ensure someone doesn't come in after them and patent something they've been using for years.
- salient 13y agoI guess it was chosen to "streamline" the process of assigning a patent to someone (first come, first served). Unfortunately that doesn't necessarily mean it's a better process, because now, as expected, the trolls (or corporations with a lot of money for filing dumb patents) will be the ones to take advantage the most from it.
- pbhjpbhj 13y agoIf there were "obviously people before YogaGlo" doing the same thing then any citation that can be date verified of that will invalidate the patent. This has nothing to do with first to file. You still need to meet obviousness and novelty requirements. The move actually is to reduce the legal wranglings and to come in line with the rest of the world.
- analog31 13y agoWe went to "first to file" in order to make our system more similar to the rest of the world. As I understand it, there were already very few cases where priority was decided based on inventorship.
- felipeko 13y agoAnything public can be used to invalidate a patent. The first to file only refers to two inventors patenting the same non public (or public in the span of a year) invention. Anything public for more than a year cannot be patented because there's prior art (obviously). So if you want to ensure someone don't sue you for a patent, you just have to publish everything you've been using. Of course this is a lie, because there's always a patent that you can be sued, because even if you can invalidate said patent (even with another patent), you will still have to pay a lot of money.
- Fuxy 13y agoI'll wait until breathing gets patented.
- IanDrake 13y agoWhy not, it's already taxed and considered pollution.
- paulgb 13y agoI'm glad to see this. It's hard to explain to non-techies just how pathetic the patent system has become with regards to Apple v. Samsung and WiFi patent trolls, but everyone can see how absurd this patent is.
- dl_terp 13y agoIf anyone actually has to pay out to YogaGlo, they could just follow the example of a certain tech company and pay in nickels...
- asiekierka 13y agoI thought it was said a number of times that this was a fake rumor.
- SilkRoadie 13y agoIf this is in reference to Samsung... Most "Internet Facts" are not facts. Apple didn't get paid in nickels.
- blueblob 13y agoreference to ThePirateBay? http://www.daniweb.com/hardware-and-software/news/220529/pirate-bay-organises-distributed-donation-of-dollars-attack http://www.daniweb.com/hardware-and-software/news/220529/pir...
- smalldaddy 13y agoHopefully they go after the porn industry for infringing this patent. The porn industry has the muscle to move (and change) the patent system.
- angersock 13y ago11. The method according to claim 8, further comprising the step of making loud and guttural moans for no apparent reason. 12. The method according to claim 8, further comprising the step of having the camera positioned looking down the actor's abdomen during penetration.
- wavesounds 13y agoI was joking with a friend I should patent "uploading yoga to YouTube" just a few days ago! This patent is literally a joke.
- Buttons840 13y agoMaybe get a few 5 years old together, give them about 60 seconds of instruction and watch the infringement begin.
- codeulike 13y ago-find-replace-paste- how many more cases like this will we see before the authorities realise that Big Yoga is abusing the patent system and stifling innovation that will seriously damage the whole yoga industry
- matthuggins 13y ago> the camera used to record online yoga classes must "provide a participatory view [which means ‘a view observed by a participant in the rear of the class,’ according to YogaGlo] from a height of about three feet." Well there ya go, just make a video from the second row instead of the back row!
- oh_sigh 13y agoThey patented a camera angle? Can someone patent all the camera angles that Michael Bay uses in his movies?
- theandrewbailey 13y agoGood thinking, but too late.
- scriptproof 13y agoI recently discovered someone patented the android robot (granted in 2013) and other functions of robots such as walking. So I am not surprised. http://www.scriptol.com/robotics/patents.php http://www.scriptol.com/robotics/patents.php
- tobyjsullivan 13y agoIsn't there technically a requirement that patentable ideas must be "non obvious" increments on prior art? This is a concept that is obviously subjective but seems to be completely ignored by the patent issuers.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- t0dd 13y agoThe position of a camera and people in a room is patentable now! What next. Where does this obscene urge come from to file absurd, obnoxious, predatory patents that do absolutely nothing except stifle innovation? Why can't businesses compete on their own merits and the value they provide the world? I wonder if they realize the harm they're causing--not to mention what they're doing completely violates yogic principles. They should retract the patent and issue an apology to the entire Yoga community. When will enough be enough and our patent system finally reformed to prevent this frivolous, grotesque, and utterly wasteful behavior?
- SoftwareMaven 13y agoIt comes from the jackpots (or the continual revenue stream) that such predatory patents provide.
- reustle 13y agoHere [1] is an instance where Yogaglo has sent a Cease And Desist regarding camera placement. [1] http://theyogablog.com/yogaglo-patent-bs/ http://theyogablog.com/yogaglo-patent-bs/
- WildUtah 13y agoI wrote a comment on the op site. [0] Apparently Disqus holds posts like this for moderation, though. Maybe because of the link. It's good news, I guess. The more constituencies that are threatened by patent abuse, the more likely the system will be reformed. Since we as computer programmers are the top targets for this scam of a patent system, any allies we get should encourage us. And yoga practitioners are more influential in Congress than computer programmers. Heck, illegal aliens and terrorists are more popular with Congress than we are. [0] This one: Good News, everyone. First the bad news, though. Even if this patent is invalid, it will cost around a million dollars to fight a lawsuit against it. If YogaGlo sues you, your best bet is to pay whatever they ask, unless you have a million dollars laying around that you don't need. Validity or invalidity doesn't matter. The good news is that there's a bill before Congress that can make things better. Today, unjustly accused patent infringers have no way to get their legal fees paid by their accusers even when they win. You just lose your million dollars in fees. If Congressman Goodlatte's "Innovation Act" (H.R. 3309) becomes law, the accusers will have to pay your fees if you win. That will put an end to most lawsuits based on invalid and frivolous patents. The best thing of all is that you can do something about it! The Innovation Act has passed the House of Representatives and President Obama has been asking for reform legislation, but the fate of the bill in the Senate is in question. Senator Leahy, the Senate Judiciary Committee chairman, has introduced the Patent Transparency And Improvements Act (S. 1720) which has some provisions from the Innovations Act. Unfortunately, the Leahy bill does not include the loser-pays provision that would protect small business people and yoga teachers. Call Senator Leahy's office and ask him to put a loser-pays provision in S. 1720 like the one in Congressman Goodatte's H.R. 3309. Then call your two home state senators and ask them to support a loser pays provision in S.1720. If you're a Vermonter, Leahy is your senator, so mention that you're calling from his home state. Constituent calls really matter. You will reach a smart, professional aide in your senator's office who will take down your message and your senator will hear about it. It only takes a couple minutes. Contact information for your senator is here: http://www.senate.gov/general/.. http://www.senate.gov/general/... Senator Leahy's (D-VT) office number is (202) 224-4242.
- jamesbritt 13y agoApparently Disqus holds posts like this for moderation, though. Maybe because of the link. The site owner can set how comments are moderated, if at all. They may have opted for some degree of spam-checking, or they may have decided that all posts need explicit approval. Given the nature of your post I'm skeptical they will allow it, link or no link. :(
- toddwolf79 13y agoFWIW: This YogaGlo company posted a NEW defense of itself today. Does it hold any water? http://www.yogaglo.com/blog/2013/12/yogaglo-update/ http://www.yogaglo.com/blog/2013/12/yogaglo-update/