7 ms·

This is getting ridiculous. The ad empires built on stalking every single breath of every single human want to take governments to task on the topic of stalking

by pacala 13y ago

This is getting ridiculous. The ad empires built on stalking every single breath of every single human want to take governments to task on the topic of stalking. What about cleaning up your own house first? 1. Limiting Corporations’ Authority to Collect Users’ Information Corporations should codify sensible limitations on their ability to collect and disclose user data that balance their need for the data in limited circumstances, users’ reasonable privacy interests, and the impact on trust in the Internet. In addition, corporations should limit surveillance to specific, known users for lawful purposes, and should not undertake bulk data collection of Internet communications. 2 Oversight and Accountability Corporations seeking to collect or compel the production of information should do so under a clear legal framework in which corporations are subject to strong checks and balances. Reviewing courts should be independent and include an adversarial process, and corporations should allow important rulings of law to be made public in a timely manner so that the courts are accountable to an informed citizenry. 3 Transparency About Corporations collecting practices Transparency is essential to a debate over corporations’ surveillance powers and the scope of programs that are administered under those powers. Corporations should publish the number and nature of collected user information. 4 Respecting the Free Flow of Information The ability of data to flow or be accessed across borders is essential to a robust 21st century global economy. Corporations should not collect user information in other countries with the intent of circumventing the local laws that limit user data collection.

ekianjo 13y ago
On Internet you have the choice of which service to use, that's the key difference. You don't want Google ? Use DuckDuckGo. You don't want Microsoft ? Use Linux systems. And so on. The issue with the government is that you are tracked by default, on your mobile phone and on your online activity. You cannot opt out.
- tomphoolery 13y ago
  This. We can make as many comparisons as we want but at the end of the day, if I don't like the way Facebook is doing their business I can just delete my account. I can't just delete my Social Security Number if I'm opposed to the US's continued investment into the war on drugs as well as its military strikes overseas. Nor can I really retaliate to a country on earth where I don't have to be afraid of the government tracking me. You really can't opt out.
  - TWAndrews 13y ago
    It's also the stark differences in the consequences of misuse. Google can use my information to serve me diabolically targeted ads. The government can put me in jail. It's not that I trust Google more, it's that they have vastly less power to harm me even if their intentions are bad.
    - pacala 13y ago
      The difference is quite subtle, if any. I'm not even sure why you are afraid of government stalking. After all, government is prevented by the rule of law from arbitrarily throw you in jail. For every reason you are afraid of government, you should be afraid of corporation X. Furthermore, there is no guarantee that corporation X will not collude with the government to do you harm 10 years from now. These corporations are building your dossier with a detail that would make Stasi blush. If there are teeth to such dossiers, they'll make use of it in good time, perhaps hand in hand with the government.
      - lambda 13y ago
        > After all, government is prevented by the rule of law from arbitrarily throw you in jail That hasn't exactly stopped them from holding detainees in Guantanamo with no charges for years, and no hope of release. If the government gets the wrong idea about you, they may bust your door down and run in with guns drawn, then shoot you because they think you're reaching for a gun. While I'm concerned about what Google or Facebook will do with my information, the biggest concern (and the one expressed here) is that the government will demand or snoop it from them, and act on it in one of the ways described above.
      - woah 13y ago
        > After all, government is prevented by the rule of law from arbitrarily throw you in jail. This statement is factually incorrect. The government is allowed to hold you for however long they want, without trial, as long as they call you "terrorist". www.ndaa2012.us
      - grey-area 13y ago
- lambda 13y ago
  You have very little choice to avoid Google Analytics (or one of a handful of other major analytics companies). Almost every site on the internet uses it. None of them reveal in an obvious way if they do, or give you any choice (or they just pop up a generic "we use cookies, if you continue using this site you agree"). Or beyond that, there's all the sharing buttons, Google Web Fonts, hosted JavaScript libraries, and the like. If I wanted to prevent Google from being able to track me at all, I would have to avoid the vast majority of the web. You can apply more and more extensions and filter rules to block this sort of thing. I have a variety enabled; they make it a quite a pain to surf the web, as they wind up breaking a variety of sites by blocking a little too much, and I have to sit there and selectively disable them until I find what allows the site to work. So, effectively, you cannot opt out of corporate tracking either. If you want to, just like avoiding government surveillance, your best bet is to just disconnect from the net entirely.
  - pavs 13y ago
    >You have very little choice to avoid Google Analytics. https://tools.google.com/dlpage/gaoptout https://tools.google.com/dlpage/gaoptout Its been around for a looooong time.
  - daurnimator 13y ago
    Using ghostery or similar browser plugins covers 90% of the use cases you describe. I dislike that you get forced to use it to opt-out, but there is little other choice.
  - quesera 13y ago
    I use multiple Firefox profiles. Primary has all the privacy-enhancing extensions turned on and tuned, so random browsing will not accrue to me. When I hit a wall (rarely) and after consideration, decide that I really want to bypass it (even more rare), I create a new profile, do the dirty deed, and then destroy the profile. Chrome profiles are leaky in confidence-damping ways, and the options for privacy extensions are fewer. Use Firefox.
  - ekianjo 13y ago
    I disagree, there are many extensions that can protect you from these tracking practices, ghostery among others. And I know some people who run NoScript to avoid loading any Javascript by default, and only authorize certain specific ones. There are easy ways you can protect yourself with a minimum of knowledge. > If you want to, just like avoiding government surveillance, your best bet is to just disconnect from the net entirely. You can't disconnect from government surveillance, in case you did not get my point earlier. They track your phone calls even if you don't use the net. They have cameras in streets, airports, they can track your spending via credit cards, they can check where you are by locating your mobile phone position, but no company alone can do the exact same thing. The balance of power is clearly in favor of the government for surveillance, and the massive budget of the NSA is a simple proof that they are not kidding.
molecule 13y ago
<irony> (function(i,s,o,g,r,a,m){i['GoogleAnalyticsObject']=r;i[r]=i[r]||function(){ (i[r].q=i[r].q||[]).push(arguments)},i[r].l=1*new Date();a=s.createElement(o), m=s.getElementsByTagName(o)[0];a.async=1;a.src=g;m.parentNode.insertBefore(a,m) })(window,document,'script','//www.google-analytics.com/analytics.js','ga'); ga('create', 'UA-46280830-1', 'reformgovernmentsurveillance.com'); ga('send', 'pageview'); </irony>
- pavs 13y ago
  https://tools.google.com/dlpage/gaoptout https://tools.google.com/dlpage/gaoptout
  - teddyh 13y ago
    This only makes the owner of the page with the analytics code on it not see your accesses, it does not in any way prevent Google to see all your accesses. And Google probably gives all their data to the NSA et al, anyway (be it officially or unofficially). It’s the same misdirection tactics as talking about Facebook privacy controls – none of those controls prevents Facebook from seeing and recording it all. And whatever is recorded is probably passed on to the NSA.
    - rmc 13y ago
      Then you can use NoScript or Ghosterly
      - teddyh 13y ago
        Still does not help with Facebook or Google+, YouTube, etc.
        harshreality 13y ago
        https://disconnect.me/ https://disconnect.me/ But doesn't ghostery block FB, Google+, etc. by default, too?
magicalist 13y ago
Uh, I would like corporate and governmental accountability.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
jpatokal 13y ago
Your appeal to hypocrisy is a logical fallacy. In other words, Facebook may well be snarfing all up all the info they can, but that doesn't mean they can't criticize the government for the same. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque
TruthElixirX 13y ago
>What about cleaning up your own house first? These corporations, to my knowledge, have never used their data to: * Spy on love interests * Kill people abroad unilaterally * Construct court cases against people * Imprison people for victimless crimes (or any crime for that matter) * Add me to no-fly lists * Forcibly extract money from me to make me pay for their programs
- dnr 13y ago
  I remember reading stories a few years ago about how facebook employees used to spy on love interests. I'm sure there are better access controls in place these days, though.
  - raverbashing 13y ago
    It's one thing, even if still completely unacceptable, for an employee to spy using one media. Another one is for someone to "throw the net" and get information on several fronts (possibly including: credit report, bank info, emails, etc)
    - atmosx 13y ago
      However, if anyone at google or facebook gets caught doing that, it will have a hard time finding a job. At the NSA is probably encouraged behavior and I'm pretty no one is loosing his job over spying someone there, it's what they do after all.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
nikcub 13y ago
The difference is that users opt-in to a trade with the tech companies: my data for a service. When that deal is no longer opt-in, such as when Google stored third-party cookies in Safari despite settings, or when Facebook tracked non-users across the web, it is a privacy lapse and it is fixed, they are fined by the FCC, they lose marketability etc. The entire world didn't opt-in to NSA surveillance. These companies can't even tell their users that their data might be shared with the NSA. Privacy rights aren't about being against user data, it is about allowing users to choose how and when their data is used.
chestnut-tree 13y ago
I agree - there's something a tad hypocritical about companies like Google and Facebook who voraciously track and record as much online browsing behaviour as they possibly can. Where is the transparency from these companies on what they record and track? Just go and read Google's privacy policies - so vaguely worded, they tell you nothing about what they track and record. Google, in particular has it's digital fingerprints all over the web. Its' online reach is far greater than any other company. They even have an entire OS that potentially tracks your every action. Sure, they are not using the data they collect for nefarious purposes, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be subject to much greater scrutiny. Just look at the quote from Larry Page on the website: "The security of users' data is critical..." It's not just about security, but about privacy too. Privacy and security are related but separate issues. You can have the best security in the world and continue to voraciously gobble every byte of data you can possibly capture. I don't doubt Google's commitment to security matters. But can you trust them on matters of privacy?
MBlume 13y ago
I am so fucking sick of this false equivalence between Facebook having my data and the government having my data. The government has big fucking guns. If they see something in my data they don't like, they can shoot me, or threaten to shoot me until I walk into a cage. Facebook can't.

by pacala 13y ago

ekianjo 13y ago

On Internet you have the choice of which service to use, that's the key difference. You don't want Google ? Use DuckDuckGo. You don't want Microsoft ? Use Linux systems. And so on. The issue with the government is that you are tracked by default, on your mobile phone and on your online activity. You cannot opt out.

tomphoolery 13y ago
This. We can make as many comparisons as we want but at the end of the day, if I don't like the way Facebook is doing their business I can just delete my account. I can't just delete my Social Security Number if I'm opposed to the US's continued investment into the war on drugs as well as its military strikes overseas. Nor can I really retaliate to a country on earth where I don't have to be afraid of the government tracking me. You really can't opt out.
- TWAndrews 13y ago
  It's also the stark differences in the consequences of misuse. Google can use my information to serve me diabolically targeted ads. The government can put me in jail. It's not that I trust Google more, it's that they have vastly less power to harm me even if their intentions are bad.
  - pacala 13y ago
    The difference is quite subtle, if any. I'm not even sure why you are afraid of government stalking. After all, government is prevented by the rule of law from arbitrarily throw you in jail. For every reason you are afraid of government, you should be afraid of corporation X. Furthermore, there is no guarantee that corporation X will not collude with the government to do you harm 10 years from now. These corporations are building your dossier with a detail that would make Stasi blush. If there are teeth to such dossiers, they'll make use of it in good time, perhaps hand in hand with the government.
    - lambda 13y ago
      > After all, government is prevented by the rule of law from arbitrarily throw you in jail That hasn't exactly stopped them from holding detainees in Guantanamo with no charges for years, and no hope of release. If the government gets the wrong idea about you, they may bust your door down and run in with guns drawn, then shoot you because they think you're reaching for a gun. While I'm concerned about what Google or Facebook will do with my information, the biggest concern (and the one expressed here) is that the government will demand or snoop it from them, and act on it in one of the ways described above.
    - woah 13y ago
      > After all, government is prevented by the rule of law from arbitrarily throw you in jail. This statement is factually incorrect. The government is allowed to hold you for however long they want, without trial, as long as they call you "terrorist". www.ndaa2012.us
    - grey-area 13y ago
lambda 13y ago
You have very little choice to avoid Google Analytics (or one of a handful of other major analytics companies). Almost every site on the internet uses it. None of them reveal in an obvious way if they do, or give you any choice (or they just pop up a generic "we use cookies, if you continue using this site you agree"). Or beyond that, there's all the sharing buttons, Google Web Fonts, hosted JavaScript libraries, and the like. If I wanted to prevent Google from being able to track me at all, I would have to avoid the vast majority of the web. You can apply more and more extensions and filter rules to block this sort of thing. I have a variety enabled; they make it a quite a pain to surf the web, as they wind up breaking a variety of sites by blocking a little too much, and I have to sit there and selectively disable them until I find what allows the site to work. So, effectively, you cannot opt out of corporate tracking either. If you want to, just like avoiding government surveillance, your best bet is to just disconnect from the net entirely.
- pavs 13y ago
  >You have very little choice to avoid Google Analytics. https://tools.google.com/dlpage/gaoptout https://tools.google.com/dlpage/gaoptout Its been around for a looooong time.
- daurnimator 13y ago
  Using ghostery or similar browser plugins covers 90% of the use cases you describe. I dislike that you get forced to use it to opt-out, but there is little other choice.
- quesera 13y ago
  I use multiple Firefox profiles. Primary has all the privacy-enhancing extensions turned on and tuned, so random browsing will not accrue to me. When I hit a wall (rarely) and after consideration, decide that I really want to bypass it (even more rare), I create a new profile, do the dirty deed, and then destroy the profile. Chrome profiles are leaky in confidence-damping ways, and the options for privacy extensions are fewer. Use Firefox.
- ekianjo 13y ago
  I disagree, there are many extensions that can protect you from these tracking practices, ghostery among others. And I know some people who run NoScript to avoid loading any Javascript by default, and only authorize certain specific ones. There are easy ways you can protect yourself with a minimum of knowledge. > If you want to, just like avoiding government surveillance, your best bet is to just disconnect from the net entirely. You can't disconnect from government surveillance, in case you did not get my point earlier. They track your phone calls even if you don't use the net. They have cameras in streets, airports, they can track your spending via credit cards, they can check where you are by locating your mobile phone position, but no company alone can do the exact same thing. The balance of power is clearly in favor of the government for surveillance, and the massive budget of the NSA is a simple proof that they are not kidding.

molecule 13y ago

<irony> (function(i,s,o,g,r,a,m){i['GoogleAnalyticsObject']=r;i[r]=i[r]||function(){ (i[r].q=i[r].q||[]).push(arguments)},i[r].l=1*new Date();a=s.createElement(o), m=s.getElementsByTagName(o)[0];a.async=1;a.src=g;m.parentNode.insertBefore(a,m) })(window,document,'script','//www.google-analytics.com/analytics.js','ga'); ga('create', 'UA-46280830-1', 'reformgovernmentsurveillance.com'); ga('send', 'pageview'); </irony>

pavs 13y ago
https://tools.google.com/dlpage/gaoptout https://tools.google.com/dlpage/gaoptout
- teddyh 13y ago
  This only makes the owner of the page with the analytics code on it not see your accesses, it does not in any way prevent Google to see all your accesses. And Google probably gives all their data to the NSA et al, anyway (be it officially or unofficially). It’s the same misdirection tactics as talking about Facebook privacy controls – none of those controls prevents Facebook from seeing and recording it all. And whatever is recorded is probably passed on to the NSA.
  - rmc 13y ago
    Then you can use NoScript or Ghosterly
    - teddyh 13y ago
      Still does not help with Facebook or Google+, YouTube, etc.
      - harshreality 13y ago
        https://disconnect.me/ https://disconnect.me/ But doesn't ghostery block FB, Google+, etc. by default, too?

magicalist 13y ago

Uh, I would like corporate and governmental accountability.

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]

jpatokal 13y ago

Your appeal to hypocrisy is a logical fallacy. In other words, Facebook may well be snarfing all up all the info they can, but that doesn't mean they can't criticize the government for the same. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque

TruthElixirX 13y ago

>What about cleaning up your own house first? These corporations, to my knowledge, have never used their data to: * Spy on love interests * Kill people abroad unilaterally * Construct court cases against people * Imprison people for victimless crimes (or any crime for that matter) * Add me to no-fly lists * Forcibly extract money from me to make me pay for their programs

dnr 13y ago
I remember reading stories a few years ago about how facebook employees used to spy on love interests. I'm sure there are better access controls in place these days, though.
- raverbashing 13y ago
  It's one thing, even if still completely unacceptable, for an employee to spy using one media. Another one is for someone to "throw the net" and get information on several fronts (possibly including: credit report, bank info, emails, etc)
  - atmosx 13y ago
    However, if anyone at google or facebook gets caught doing that, it will have a hard time finding a job. At the NSA is probably encouraged behavior and I'm pretty no one is loosing his job over spying someone there, it's what they do after all.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

nikcub 13y ago

The difference is that users opt-in to a trade with the tech companies: my data for a service. When that deal is no longer opt-in, such as when Google stored third-party cookies in Safari despite settings, or when Facebook tracked non-users across the web, it is a privacy lapse and it is fixed, they are fined by the FCC, they lose marketability etc. The entire world didn't opt-in to NSA surveillance. These companies can't even tell their users that their data might be shared with the NSA. Privacy rights aren't about being against user data, it is about allowing users to choose how and when their data is used.

chestnut-tree 13y ago

I agree - there's something a tad hypocritical about companies like Google and Facebook who voraciously track and record as much online browsing behaviour as they possibly can. Where is the transparency from these companies on what they record and track? Just go and read Google's privacy policies - so vaguely worded, they tell you nothing about what they track and record. Google, in particular has it's digital fingerprints all over the web. Its' online reach is far greater than any other company. They even have an entire OS that potentially tracks your every action. Sure, they are not using the data they collect for nefarious purposes, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be subject to much greater scrutiny. Just look at the quote from Larry Page on the website: "The security of users' data is critical..." It's not just about security, but about privacy too. Privacy and security are related but separate issues. You can have the best security in the world and continue to voraciously gobble every byte of data you can possibly capture. I don't doubt Google's commitment to security matters. But can you trust them on matters of privacy?

MBlume 13y ago

I am so fucking sick of this false equivalence between Facebook having my data and the government having my data. The government has big fucking guns. If they see something in my data they don't like, they can shoot me, or threaten to shoot me until I walk into a cage. Facebook can't.