32 ms·

South Africa's Nelson Mandela dies

1137 points by antr 13y ago

mkuhn 13y ago
The perfect farewell: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAl5jucOgro http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAl5jucOgro
Tomis02 13y ago
For those interested about the relation between Nelson Mandela and Glasgow, good reads. 1. http://www.scotsman.com/news/comment-glasgow-s-backing-of-mandela-vindicated-1-2976906 http://www.scotsman.com/news/comment-glasgow-s-backing-of-ma... 2. http://news.stv.tv/scotland/30271-nelson-mandelas-memorable-1993-visit-to-scotland/ http://news.stv.tv/scotland/30271-nelson-mandelas-memorable-...
Ihmahr 13y ago
Just until July 2008 Nelson Mandela was on the USA TERRORIST list (link). Do you know who the Nelson Mandelas of our time are? Do you support them? https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Nelson_Mandela_taken_off_US_terrorist_list https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Nelson_Mandela_taken_off_US_ter...
- SideburnsOfDoom 13y ago
  Margaret Thatcher too, called him a terrorist. They (Thatcher and her party) were on the wrong side of history then.
  - davidgerard 13y ago
    Margaret Thatcher almost makes me wish Hell existed.
    - gadders 13y ago
      And here we have the left's equivalent of the Westboro Baptist Church.
      - moocowduckquack 13y ago
        The left sounds exceedingly reasonable then, because the right's version of the Westboro Baptists is the Westboro Baptists.
        cobrausn 13y ago
        They are only right wing if you subscribe to an extremely simplistic and binary view of politics.
        moocowduckquack 13y ago
        Yeah, but the joke is responding to a post that is saying that davidgerard is the left wing equivalent of them, so to include more nuance would have made it less funny.
  - a8da6b0c91d 13y ago
    But he was involved in terrorist activities. He was a terrorist.
    - SideburnsOfDoom 13y ago
      The lesson is that the difference between "terrorist" and "freedom fighter" is not as well defined as you might think. He was a great leader.
      - k-mcgrady 13y ago
        "One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter."
        sparkzilla 13y ago
        To paraphrase James Bond: "Some Freedom Fighters are not interested in anyone's freedom"
        SideburnsOfDoom 13y ago
        I'm not sure where you're going with that. Nelson Mandela was the opposite of that; he cared deeply about everyone's freedom.
    - Crito 13y ago
      Would you call the French Resistance terrorists? They certainly performed acts that could justify the label, but would you call them terrorists?
      - moocowduckquack 13y ago
        They called themselves terrorists. Terrorisme was the state terror and was not an accusation, but rather a boast by the Jacobins. edit - oops, as splat points out, I got the wrong end of the stick there by a country mile.
  - dhughes 13y ago
    I'd say if you're an Irish person Thatcher could be seen as a terrorist.
    - northernmonkey 13y ago
      Half of England agrees with you
      - gadders 13y ago
        Yes, she was so unpopular she won three elections on the bounce. Yeah, yeah, popular vote blah blah blah.
        northernmonkey 13y ago
        I'm guessing you know how daft you sound. She frequently registered the lowest ratings in opinion polls of any PM. Ever. She was for much of her time despised by the majority, regarded as dangerously idiotic by the civil service and as an embarrassment by her own parliamentary party. Do not fool yourself into thinking she won on her own volition. She won because of external influences, at least some of which were the fault of her opposition.
        dhughes 13y ago
        For example, the same political system, we here in Canada have Harper there is no way he is popular but he keeps winning elections.
        gadders 13y ago
        She won, like any other politician, because she was the best choice for the people at the time. I don't think what the civil service thinks of you is of particular relevance. She may have been despised by the majority of people in the North of England, but she was (and is) revered across most of the Sourth.
  - vowelless 13y ago
    Terrorist is a loaded term. http://blogs.reuters.com/reuters-editors/2007/06/13/when-does-reuters-use-the-word-terrorist-or-terrorism/ http://blogs.reuters.com/reuters-editors/2007/06/13/when-doe...
- tptacek 13y ago
  The US was actively opposing apartheid at the same time as the ANC was added to the watch list, during the Reagan administration. Reagan has a weird relationship with apartheid; he vetoed the comprehensive anti-apartheid act, but his veto was overridden by his own party in the Senate. It's worth knowing that the ANC was implicated in violence in South Africa --- or, rather, splinter groups of the ANC. Having Nelson Mandela implicated in "terrorism" is obviously stupid, as was having the entire ANC listed as a "terrorist organization", but it would be misleading to suggest that the US Government was supporting apartheid based on this fact; it was a complicated time period during which the government was to greater and lesser extents working to oppose apartheid.
  - Ihmahr 13y ago
    The US government was not at all opposing apartheid, but had to react to pressures. They could easily have imposed a boycott and collapsed the regime way before it did. Instead they send military support to the oppressors. And sure Mandela was a terrorist, to some... He terrorized the dictators. Now seriously, Who is a Nelson Mandela today and do you support him/her?
    - deleted 13y ago
      [deleted]
    - tptacek 13y ago
      I have no idea what it means for a representative democracy to "not oppose" something but rather "react to pressures". Whatever that pressure was, it caused the Republican-controlled Senate to override the veto of a Republican President. If it's helpful for you, here's the law, which not only opposed apartheid but also banned imports from the South African state and cut off aid; it also stated the sense of Congress that the US should meet with... wait for it... Nelson Mandela. http://uscode.house.gov/statutes/1986/1986-099-0440.pdf http://uscode.house.gov/statutes/1986/1986-099-0440.pdf
      - mturmon 13y ago
        Here and elsewhere in this thread you are giving a misleading impression of the GOP's and Reagan's relationship to sanctions legislation. They fought it tooth and claw, and were eventually shamed into doing something, which turned out to be as little as possible, too late to matter. That's what the parent comment is trying to get across. I have no idea why you're failing to see the distinction between legislators genuinely working on an issue vs. being dragged by public opinion. The background is that most of the GOP leadership (political and think-tank) rejected sanctions against the apartheid government of SA during the 1980s. Similar to other muddles today, a cloud of confusion was thrown up to stop or delay passage of US sanctions. ("Sanctions would hurt the poorest most", etc.) It was all just a BS rationale to keep from implementing sanctions against a government considered a US ally (the ANC was associated with Communism), but it was all taken seriously at the time. Vintage Cold War logic. A watered-down bill eventually passed the Democratic House, and went to the GOP-controlled Senate, where it was diluted and barely passed. Reagan had not anticipated this, and vetoed the bill. And it was then over-ridden. His administration never went along with the sanctions implementation. By the time the GHW Bush administration took over and did somewhat better, the jig was up. The Berlin wall fell in 1989, removing the "bulwark against communism" rationale for US support of apartheid, and Mandela was released from jail in 1990. * I have some attachment to the issue because my roommates were involved in sit-ins, a tent city, and other political organizing at the time. It was a defining issue of the mid-1980s.
- Theodores 13y ago
  He may well have been seen as a terrorist by Our Great Leaders, however, he could also count on a lot of support from people all around the world that wanted an end to Apartheid. This support was wide ranging - words, weapons, money and organisational support. Currently we are in a struggle against totalitarianism, the privatised war machine and the outsourced surveillance state. This enemy has global reach and the only countries that are not aligned with it are places like Cuba. What countries do we have outside our borders to go to for practical help from the system of oppression we find ourselves in? What external support can we get? Nelson Mandela came out of retirement to tell the likes of Bush and Blair exactly what he thought of them. This was not the plan, he wanted to enjoy time with his grand children rather than have to continue working. He was not best pleased with general stewardship of life on planet earth. I doubt that he had a complete grasp of how insidious the current situation is but I am sure he had the general idea. It is sad that he should be departing from the world when things are going 'Dark Ages' rather than 'Enlightenment'.
- mason240 13y ago
  That is such a blatantly illogical statement I'm shocked to see it on board where the userbase deals in applying logic for living. AM is an A. B is an A. Therefore B = AM.
  - JackFr 13y ago
    Are you new here?
- aestra 13y ago
  They never taught me in school the FBI and the NSA wiretapped and had excessive surveillance on Martin Luther King Jr. to 'neutralize' him as an effective civil rights leader. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther_King,_Jr.#FBI_surveillance_and_wiretapping http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther_King,_Jr.#FBI_sur...
knodi 13y ago
RIP Madiba.
kvnwng 13y ago
Here's to hoping that his death will at least galvanize a more unified approach to politics in SA to honor his memory.
kohanz 13y ago
“It always seems impossible until it’s done.” Looking through a list of Mandela's quotes [1], there is an uncanny parallel between his viewpoint and those of an entrepreneur. RIP Nelson. “I am fundamentally an optimist. Whether that comes from nature or nurture, I cannot say. Part of being optimistic is keeping one’s head pointed toward the sun, one’s feet moving forward. There were many dark moments when my faith in humanity was sorely tested, but I would not and could not give myself up to despair. That way lays defeat and death.” “After climbing a great hill, one only finds that there are many more hills to climb.” [1] http://newsone.com/1397375/nelson-mandela-quotes-93rd-birthday/ http://newsone.com/1397375/nelson-mandela-quotes-93rd-birthd...
- macspoofing 13y ago
  >Looking through a list of Mandela's quotes [1], there is an uncanny parallel between his viewpoint and those of an entrepreneur Except the startup entrepreneur is talking about a photo-sharing app.
paskakap 13y ago
Well, lots of celebrities have died lately. Paul Walker and now Nelson Mandellion.
- aaron695 13y ago
  Remember it comes in 3's, it's not over yet.
- marquis 13y ago
  Mandela isn't a 'celebrity': he's one of the few people in recent times who changed the world we live in for the better. His life's work allows millions of us to have hope.
  - aaron695 13y ago
    I think it's more a commentary on the inane comments that are being made on the issue by people who seriously have no idea on who he was and what he did but want to jump on the bandwagon of his 'celebrity' status.
    - onebaddude 13y ago
      >I think it's more a commentary on the inane comments that are being made on the issue by people who seriously have no idea on who he was and what he did but want to jump on the bandwagon of his 'celebrity' status. This was all I could think reading this thread. Mandela, and his undertakings, probably never crossed the minds of 90% of the participants in this thread. I know very little about him myself, outside of his celebrity. But suddenly everyone has an opinion.
- rsynnott 13y ago
  This is a bizarre comparison.
jdmitch 13y ago
Amandla! Awethu!
ps4fanboy 13y ago
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2002&dat=19981011&id=-KZUAAAAIBAJ&sjid=XzsNAAAAIBAJ&pg=5864,2664027 http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2002&dat=19981011&id=-...
- nashequilibrium 13y ago
  did you actually read that article, i did?
  - ps4fanboy 13y ago
    yes
davidgerard 13y ago
Before you read other politicians' platitudes on his death, you should read Mandela's speech on his release from jail: http://www.anc.org.za/show.php?id=4520 http://www.anc.org.za/show.php?id=4520
ASpring 13y ago
Goodbye to a hero in forgiveness who demonstrated truly magnificent character during the post-apartheid transition in South Africa. More world leaders should strive to follow in his footsteps.
- cma 13y ago
  We only took him off the terrorist list, nearly a sort of minor apartheid of its own, a few years ago.
  - JackFr 13y ago
    Notwithstanding the glib idiocy of maintaining an equivalence between a list of terrorist organizations and apartheid, I have to admit I was shocked by the fact that leaders of the ANC, esp. including Mandela, could not get a visa to the US until 2008, and that it took an Act of Congress. I would have assumed that it would have been an administrative decision of the State Department.
    - cma 13y ago
      Depending on your age you may or may not be shocked to find out that women couldn't serve on juries until the 1970s.
      - justincormack 13y ago
        Thats not a reasonable summary of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taylor_v._Louisiana https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taylor_v._Louisiana eg see http://www.mass.gov/courts/sjc/jury-system-e.html http://www.mass.gov/courts/sjc/jury-system-e.html
      - JackFr 13y ago
        I'm only made to feel better by knowledge that the last Swiss canton held out on women's suffrage until 1990.
  - TwoNineFive 13y ago
tunnuz 13y ago
Goodbye Bafana.
- koenigdavidmj 13y ago
  That just means 'boys'. I expect that you're looking for 'Madiba', his clan name.
  - tunnuz 13y ago
    I know nothing of Afrikaans, I was just quoting Goodbye Bafana (2007) http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0438859 http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0438859 (worth watching if you haven't already).
    - SideburnsOfDoom 13y ago
      You mean Xhosa, not Afrikaans.
      - tunnuz 13y ago
        That one.
- luiperd 13y ago
  Bafana actually refers to the South African soccer team (correctly “Bafana Bafana”), and does translate to "boys." Just an fyi.
CountHackulus 13y ago
Truly his legacy will provide inspiration for generations.
michaelmcmillan 13y ago
Mandela has had such an impact on the world, this is sad.
marquis 13y ago
I hope he has been heartened to see the shift towards greater equality and justice in the world, to which he was a strong voice and since my childhood he's remained one of the most relevant world leaders.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
davidgerard 13y ago
Well, damn.
carlmcqueen 13y ago
Very Sad News. Death of a truly great man.
sschueller 13y ago
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1SWKumsKNo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1SWKumsKNo
tobyjsullivan 13y ago
Few men lead such a full, adventurous and meaningful life. An inspiration to all.
- kika 13y ago
  Inspired me to put a tire around someone's neck, fill it with gas and light it up.
fuddle 13y ago
I would recommend anyone interested in his life to read his autobiography, Long Walk to Freedom. http://www.amazon.ca/Long-Walk-Freedom-Autobiography-Mandela/dp/0316548189 http://www.amazon.ca/Long-Walk-Freedom-Autobiography-Mandela...
- notahacker 13y ago
  The thing that struck me about Nelson Mandela as he wanted to be seen in that book is that he tried very hard to see the good in people. Perhaps it's to be expected that he's forgiving about former sworn enemies who ended up releasing him and stepping aside so he could dismantle the apartheid regime they'd spent upholding, and sidesteps any qualms he might have had about some of the region's truly obnoxious dictators who backed the ANC when they were outlaws. But he also takes the time to note when some of his less pleasant jailers displayed unexpected courtesy. Some of the exchanges from his original trial are quite remarkable too, especially those involving the prosecutions "expert witness" on the subject of communism
natural219 13y ago
Does anyone have any materials about Nelson Mandela's life that's accessible to a youngster like me? I know he was hugely important for ending something called "apartheid" in South Africa which sounds pretty horrible, I just don't know what it is. Rest in peace.
- Segmentation 13y ago
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nelson_Mandela http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nelson_Mandela http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apartheid_in_South_Africa http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apartheid_in_South_Africa http://www-cs-students.stanford.edu/~cale/cs201/apartheid.hist.html http://www-cs-students.stanford.edu/~cale/cs201/apartheid.hi...
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- csmuk 13y ago
  Wikipedia...
- roschdal 13y ago
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nelson_Mandela http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nelson_Mandela Nelson Mandela's Life Story - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgQBoXsxr8w http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgQBoXsxr8w Mandela release from prison speech - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpw8AU3wMsM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpw8AU3wMsM
- guyht 13y ago
  Quick summary from the BBC article 1918 Born in the Eastern Cape 1943 Joined African National Congress 1956 Charged with high treason, but charges dropped after a four-year trial 1962 Arrested, convicted of incitement and leaving country without a passport, sentenced to five years in prison 1964 Charged with sabotage, sentenced to life 1990 Freed from prison 1993 Wins Nobel Peace Prize 1994 Elected first black president 1999 Steps down as leader 2001 Diagnosed with prostate cancer 2004 Retires from public life 2005 Announces his son has died of an HIV/Aids-related illness
- 13y ago
casca 13y ago
Mandela reminds us that it's possible for a single man to create peace amidst a huge push for war. Forgiveness is the first step in changing a society, without it we are doomed to repeat the failures of our ancestors. He continues to be an inspiration, particularly us Africans. Rest in peace Madiba.
- mathieuh 13y ago
  Do not allow liberals to sanitise history. Mandela was a symbol of non-peaceful resistance and of the progress that it can bring.
  - gadders 13y ago
    Do not allow liberals to do anything. Safer that way.
    - warfangle 13y ago
      Do not allow anyone to do anything. Safer that way. /reductio-ad-fascism
      - gadders 13y ago
        Ha ha. Fair point.
    - pyrocat 13y ago
      U.S. GOP strategy summed up right there.
      - gadders 13y ago
        You say it like it's a bad thing.
        aeturnum 13y ago
        Regardless of the success of one side's v.s. the other side's policies, a system which seeks to prevent either political "side" from accomplishing anything can hardly be called democratic. Only by honestly attempting mutually exclusive policies can we discover their efficacy in the real world. I think your eagerness to see a substantial proportion of the population lose their political agency to be far more disturbing than any particular political issue.
jbrooksuk 13y ago
R.I.P.
wehadfun 13y ago
"I have cherished the ideal of a democratic and free society in which all persons live together in harmony and with equal opportunities. It is an ideal which I hope to live for and to achieve. But if needs be, it is an ideal for which I am prepared to die" Mandela
davidgerard 13y ago
https://twitter.com/sarahlicity/status/408717299097403393/photo/1 https://twitter.com/sarahlicity/status/408717299097403393/ph...
- dredmorbius 13y ago
  Are you positive of the accuracy of that? There's some dispute in the Twitter thread.
middleclick 13y ago
A life well lived. Fought very hard but helped millions of people to get their basic human right. For to be thought of to be lower because of your race just because of where you were accidentally born is perhaps the worst form of discrimination possible.
harichinnan 13y ago
Nelson Mandela was one of the few people to win both India's and Pakistan's highest civilian awards. A testament to his work on world peace.
elwell 13y ago
After reading the Wikipedia article on Umkhonto we Sizwe[0], I found out he did a lot of wrong [1], but his peaceful efforts should be praised. [0] - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umkhonto_we_Sizwe http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umkhonto_we_Sizwe [1] - "South African police statistics indicate that, in the period 1976 to 1986, approximately 130 people were killed by what the source calls 'terrorists'. Of these, about thirty were members of various security forces and one hundred were civilians."
- streptomycin 13y ago
  in the period 1976 to 1986, approximately 130 people were killed by what the source calls 'terrorists' FWIW, Mandela was in prison at the time. From the 60s to 1990.
dredmorbius 13y ago
Those who were around in the 1980s might remember and appreciate The Specials AKA: http://fixyt.com/watch?v=AgcTvoWjZJU http://fixyt.com/watch?v=AgcTvoWjZJU For those who weren't: this song protesting Mandela's incarceration got widespread airplay around the world. I'm not sure I can recall a similar case of popular music taking on a case of protesting for the freedom of a single individual, and suspect it played a large part in waking consciousness to the inequity of Apartheid and much of the pressure which was brought to bear in the late 1980s against South Africa.
- scott_s 13y ago
  Bob Dylan's "The Hurricane": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hr8Wn1Mwwwk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hr8Wn1Mwwwk
  - jaggederest 13y ago
    Bob Dylan's song is about Rubin "Hurricane" Carter: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubin_Carter http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubin_Carter
    - dredmorbius 13y ago
      My read was that Dylan's song was of a similar nature, not on the same topic.
- stan_rogers 13y ago
  Same cause, different song: Johhny Clegg and Savuka Asimbonanga. Even if you didn't check the liner notes and couldn't understand Zulu (or, I guess, Clegg's rendition of Zulu, which was somewhat click-challenged) the song was heart-rending.
- seewhat 13y ago
  Another song for Mandela, though released in 1989 as a B-side single: Simple Minds - Mandela Day... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandela_Day_(song) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandela_Day_(song)
richardjordan 13y ago
I still remember sitting in front of the tv for hours, the day he was released. The long, extended coverage of his exit from prison, delayed as he spent his time saying goodbye to inmates and captors alike.
apsec112 13y ago
I have great respect for Mandela, but I have flagged this story because it's causing so much political flaming. "Please avoid introducing classic flamewar topics unless you have something genuinely new to say about them." "The worst thing to post or upvote is something that's intensely but shallowly interesting. Gossip about famous people, funny or cute pictures or videos, partisan political articles, etc. If you let that sort of thing onto a news site, it will push aside the deeply interesting stuff, which tends to be quieter." (with reference to the comments here, not the story itself)
- richardjordan 13y ago
  He's one of the most important world figures of the second half of the 20th century. Pretty legitimate news topic given the other non-tech topics that get plugged into this feed nowadays.
  - waterlesscloud 13y ago
    True, but it's also true over half this thread is political flame-warring.
  - rimantas 13y ago
    Can you explain why he was one of the most important world figures, not jus African? I am start to suspect there is some white guilt involved :(
    - richardjordan 13y ago
      if that's what you suspect then you're grossly ignorant of world affairs for the second half of the 20th century
- CanSpice 13y ago
  You should probably flag the comments instead of the story, then. This is hardly gossip about someone famous, or shallowly interesting news.
- 13y ago
christogreeff 13y ago
RIP. :(
arjn 13y ago
Out of the night that covers me, Black as the pit from pole to pole, I thank whatever gods may be For my unconquerable soul. In the fell clutch of circumstance I have not winced nor cried aloud. Under the bludgeonings of chance My head is bloody, but unbowed. Beyond this place of wrath and tears Looms but the Horror of the shade, And yet the menace of the years Finds, and shall find, me unafraid. It matters not how strait the gate, How charged with punishments the scroll, I am the master of my fate: I am the captain of my soul. - William Ernest Henley Rest in Peace Nelson Mandela
- arethuza 13y ago
  "It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." "Nelson Mandela gave a copy of this speech to François Pienaar, captain of the South African rugby team, before the start of the 1995 Rugby World Cup" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizenship_in_a_Republic http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizenship_in_a_Republic
kome 13y ago
He was a true communist and a good man. He lived up to his ideals. I'm sad he is gone. http://i.imgur.com/CwLZLY5.jpg http://i.imgur.com/CwLZLY5.jpg / http://s1.lemde.fr/image/2013/12/05/644x322/3526517_6_2605_nelson-mandela_4089385eb0defe8392726b0ca985e7fb.jpg http://s1.lemde.fr/image/2013/12/05/644x322/3526517_6_2605_n...
plg 13y ago
I wonder if political scientists on their polisci message boards have debates about programming languages and tech startups
001sky 13y ago
We felt that without violence there would be no way open to the [African] people to succeed in their struggle against the principle of [white supremacy]. All lawful modes of expressing opposition to this principle had been closed by legislation, and we were placed in a position in which we had either to accept a permanent state of inferiority, or to defy the Government. We chose to defy the law. We first broke the law in a way which avoided any recourse to violence; when this form was legislated against, and then the Government resorted to a show of force to crush opposition to its policies, only then did we decide to answer violence with violence. But the violence which we chose to adopt was not terrorism. We who formed [Umkhonto] were all members of the [African National Congress], and had behind us the [ANC] tradition of non-violence and negotiation as a means of solving political disputes. We believe that [South Africa] belongs to all the people who live in it, and not to one group..."[1] Interesting, and as always, relevant words. [1] http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/nelson-mandela-life-story--the-speeches-an-ideal-for-which-i-am-prepared-to-die-8406469.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/nelson-mandel...
bitops 13y ago
I'm a little sad to see that there's not a black bar across the top of HN due to this story.
- rangibaby 13y ago
  Is it really sad when a person who has lived a long, full life dies of old age?
  - capex 13y ago
    It is a great loss no matter how old Mandela was or how peacefully he died.
  - bitops 13y ago
    I think it's safe to say that both John McCarthy and Dennis Ritchie lived full, rich lives. They did much to change the world but Mandela is in the stratosphere when it comes to that. I say he deserves a black bar.
kimonos 13y ago
I honor this man and his principles.. Rest in peace..
j45 13y ago
Rest in peace Mr. Mandela, most of us can't imagine devoting ourselves to a cause for 27 years, for others. Your startup was freedom for all, no technology can compare.
nashequilibrium 13y ago
Is Paul going to put the black bar up on Hacker News?
ericthegoodking 13y ago
R.I.P
read 13y ago
"It always seems impossible until it's done." - Nelson Mandela
bertomartin 13y ago
Great man
lennel 13y ago
We moved back to SA a week after Mandela was released. My thoughts on SA as someone who saw this goal of transformation fail. Mandela was an incredible humanist, more so than people realise. his government was run on charm, persuasion and super bright people completely unqualified for their roles. The outcome of that was that technocrats (given the failings) and the movement of technocrats took over post (Mbeki). The vacuum (of burocratic skill and knowledge [i go uggh]) which was running a system that big could not (and never can) be built in a resistance movement. So arise the technocrats. Technocrats cannot understand/appease the person living in a shack not having any money or future 20 years post apartheid. So now the deal they negotiated in 90+ 96 + 99 (and yes it was a good deal in many ways (Chicago school) bad in so many as well) has only created a greater imbalance. Now we have entered the era of populists. figure that one out yourself. Mandela's death will do more for SA and a fair bit of southern africa than most occurrences will, and era of memberance, reading reflection, humanism will come about. for a while. My greatest grievence with Mandela simply lies in that he did not break up the tri party alliance early (trade unions, communist party and the anc which is extremely right wing in contrast) allowing them to get 60%+ votes which effectively means it is a new dictatorship. (i am sorry if 80% of the votes are prone to gerrymandering + an extremely uneducated populace i won't call it a true democracy - then again first past the post - hah!). a great human. the meaning and writing and so indefinitely misused from now.
flycaliguy 13y ago
The ultimate hacker
ismail 13y ago
A sad day for the world. Many who did not live through the period 93-94 do not realise how on a Knife Edge South Africa was at the time, it could have gone either way. The country could have descended into civil war, but my personal opinion is it didn't, in large part due to Madiba. The iconic moment of him at the 97 world cup, his constant speeches on establishing restraint.
tagawa 13y ago
The Onion puts it nicely: http://www.theonion.com/articles/nelson-mandela-becomes-first-politician-to-be-miss,34755/ http://www.theonion.com/articles/nelson-mandela-becomes-firs...
Mustafabei 13y ago
I wish there was an easier and more sincere way to pay our gratitudes... RIP great man
dodyg 13y ago
His lasting legacy is South Africa's constitution. http://www.info.gov.za/documents/constitution/1996/a108-96.pdf http://www.info.gov.za/documents/constitution/1996/a108-96.p...
known 13y ago
A terrorist is a freedom fighter who isn't on your side.
icecreampain 13y ago
Sigh. Before anyone goes off harking how Mandela almost single-handedly brought down Apartheid, think of the following: - SA has vast mineral resources... - ...that the banksters wanted - ...which SA didn't want to share (give away for almost nothing) - CIA starts orchestrating a fall of apartheid. Their tool are the liberals: "Apartheid is terrible for the poor blacks" - De Klerk gets told by Those In Charge to release Mandela, or else - Mandela released, ANC take over with a majority of the vote - ANC are corrupt like a motherfucker, privatize the government mines - Mines are bought for cheap by foreign multinationals - Mine workers still treated like shit, shot by police if they protest - The situation has gotten so bad that the police mix statistics to make it look better than it is[1] - How about the Free State spending 140 million rand on a site that costs a few thousands in reality? How's that for corruption. [2] - Black people are showing up in interviews here and there saying that it was better during apartheid [3] - CIA have gotten what they wanted, liberals have forgotten about SA [1] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsFOkUY_vkE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsFOkUY_vkE [2] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKfemruhnC0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKfemruhnC0 [3] Here is some "better during apartheid": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJ_7JbTZXng http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJ_7JbTZXng http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NydY9WLbCwc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NydY9WLbCwc Other things I haven't mentioned: The jewish-led South African Communist Party working together with the ANC to promote violent uprising, Mandela approved Church Street bombing, killing civilians, Winnie Mandels pastime of burning non-ANC voters alive (necklacing). Etc. However bad it was during Apartheid, it's even worse now.
- seewhat 13y ago
  An economic angle, summarised in: Lowenberg, Anton D. "Why South Africa’s Apartheid Economy Failed", 1997 http://www.freepatentsonline.com/article/Contemporary-Economic-Policy/19964177.html http://www.freepatentsonline.com/article/Contemporary-Econom... TLDR:- 1. Decades of intensifying international isolation over RSA's political climate. 2. RSA's growing reliance on international short-term loans in 1980s, leading to balance of payments crisis. 3. Threat and introduction of economic sanctions by international community. 4. ... Leading to increasing economic costs to industry and individuals, which reduced internal support for Apartheid amongst South Africa's elite. 5. Coincidental fall of the Soviet Union, leading to the West's reduced support of RSA against revolutionary front-line states. (Not to discount the struggle for equality amongst non-white South Africans, embodied by Mandela and others.) EDIT: Clarity
JonoW 13y ago
RIP Madiba. As a South African this is a helluva sad day, but we knew it was coming. I think I was 10 when he was released, but I had never heard of him before, partly because of my age, partly because of the media gagging. I remember all the adults being worried that retribution and revenge was coming. But it never did, all he ever did was preach reconciliation. My best memory of him must him presenting Francois Pienaar with the '95 rugby world cup trophy, it sounds lame but it was such a unifying moment for the country.
rooshdi 13y ago
“Overcoming poverty is not a task of charity, it is an act of justice. Like slavery and apartheid, poverty is not natural. It is man-made and it can be overcome and eradicated by the actions of human beings. Sometimes it falls on a generation to be great. YOU can be that great generation. Let your greatness blossom.” Thank you Madiba. May your peace rest in all.

1137 points by antr 13y ago

mkuhn 13y ago

The perfect farewell: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAl5jucOgro http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAl5jucOgro

For those interested about the relation between Nelson Mandela and Glasgow, good reads. 1. http://www.scotsman.com/news/comment-glasgow-s-backing-of-mandela-vindicated-1-2976906 http://www.scotsman.com/news/comment-glasgow-s-backing-of-ma... 2. http://news.stv.tv/scotland/30271-nelson-mandelas-memorable-1993-visit-to-scotland/ http://news.stv.tv/scotland/30271-nelson-mandelas-memorable-...

Ihmahr 13y ago

Just until July 2008 Nelson Mandela was on the USA TERRORIST list (link). Do you know who the Nelson Mandelas of our time are? Do you support them? https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Nelson_Mandela_taken_off_US_terrorist_list https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Nelson_Mandela_taken_off_US_ter...

SideburnsOfDoom 13y ago
Margaret Thatcher too, called him a terrorist. They (Thatcher and her party) were on the wrong side of history then.
- davidgerard 13y ago
  Margaret Thatcher almost makes me wish Hell existed.
  - gadders 13y ago
    And here we have the left's equivalent of the Westboro Baptist Church.
    - moocowduckquack 13y ago
      The left sounds exceedingly reasonable then, because the right's version of the Westboro Baptists is the Westboro Baptists.
      - cobrausn 13y ago
        They are only right wing if you subscribe to an extremely simplistic and binary view of politics.
        moocowduckquack 13y ago
        Yeah, but the joke is responding to a post that is saying that davidgerard is the left wing equivalent of them, so to include more nuance would have made it less funny.
- a8da6b0c91d 13y ago
  But he was involved in terrorist activities. He was a terrorist.
  - SideburnsOfDoom 13y ago
    The lesson is that the difference between "terrorist" and "freedom fighter" is not as well defined as you might think. He was a great leader.
    - k-mcgrady 13y ago
      "One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter."
      - sparkzilla 13y ago
        To paraphrase James Bond: "Some Freedom Fighters are not interested in anyone's freedom"
        SideburnsOfDoom 13y ago
        I'm not sure where you're going with that. Nelson Mandela was the opposite of that; he cared deeply about everyone's freedom.
  - Crito 13y ago
    Would you call the French Resistance terrorists? They certainly performed acts that could justify the label, but would you call them terrorists?
    - moocowduckquack 13y ago
      They called themselves terrorists. Terrorisme was the state terror and was not an accusation, but rather a boast by the Jacobins. edit - oops, as splat points out, I got the wrong end of the stick there by a country mile.
- dhughes 13y ago
  I'd say if you're an Irish person Thatcher could be seen as a terrorist.
  - northernmonkey 13y ago
    Half of England agrees with you
    - gadders 13y ago
      Yes, she was so unpopular she won three elections on the bounce. Yeah, yeah, popular vote blah blah blah.
      - northernmonkey 13y ago
        I'm guessing you know how daft you sound. She frequently registered the lowest ratings in opinion polls of any PM. Ever. She was for much of her time despised by the majority, regarded as dangerously idiotic by the civil service and as an embarrassment by her own parliamentary party. Do not fool yourself into thinking she won on her own volition. She won because of external influences, at least some of which were the fault of her opposition.
        dhughes 13y ago
        For example, the same political system, we here in Canada have Harper there is no way he is popular but he keeps winning elections.
        gadders 13y ago
        She won, like any other politician, because she was the best choice for the people at the time. I don't think what the civil service thinks of you is of particular relevance. She may have been despised by the majority of people in the North of England, but she was (and is) revered across most of the Sourth.
- vowelless 13y ago
  Terrorist is a loaded term. http://blogs.reuters.com/reuters-editors/2007/06/13/when-does-reuters-use-the-word-terrorist-or-terrorism/ http://blogs.reuters.com/reuters-editors/2007/06/13/when-doe...
tptacek 13y ago
The US was actively opposing apartheid at the same time as the ANC was added to the watch list, during the Reagan administration. Reagan has a weird relationship with apartheid; he vetoed the comprehensive anti-apartheid act, but his veto was overridden by his own party in the Senate. It's worth knowing that the ANC was implicated in violence in South Africa --- or, rather, splinter groups of the ANC. Having Nelson Mandela implicated in "terrorism" is obviously stupid, as was having the entire ANC listed as a "terrorist organization", but it would be misleading to suggest that the US Government was supporting apartheid based on this fact; it was a complicated time period during which the government was to greater and lesser extents working to oppose apartheid.
- Ihmahr 13y ago
  The US government was not at all opposing apartheid, but had to react to pressures. They could easily have imposed a boycott and collapsed the regime way before it did. Instead they send military support to the oppressors. And sure Mandela was a terrorist, to some... He terrorized the dictators. Now seriously, Who is a Nelson Mandela today and do you support him/her?
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
  - tptacek 13y ago
    I have no idea what it means for a representative democracy to "not oppose" something but rather "react to pressures". Whatever that pressure was, it caused the Republican-controlled Senate to override the veto of a Republican President. If it's helpful for you, here's the law, which not only opposed apartheid but also banned imports from the South African state and cut off aid; it also stated the sense of Congress that the US should meet with... wait for it... Nelson Mandela. http://uscode.house.gov/statutes/1986/1986-099-0440.pdf http://uscode.house.gov/statutes/1986/1986-099-0440.pdf
    - mturmon 13y ago
      Here and elsewhere in this thread you are giving a misleading impression of the GOP's and Reagan's relationship to sanctions legislation. They fought it tooth and claw, and were eventually shamed into doing something, which turned out to be as little as possible, too late to matter. That's what the parent comment is trying to get across. I have no idea why you're failing to see the distinction between legislators genuinely working on an issue vs. being dragged by public opinion. The background is that most of the GOP leadership (political and think-tank) rejected sanctions against the apartheid government of SA during the 1980s. Similar to other muddles today, a cloud of confusion was thrown up to stop or delay passage of US sanctions. ("Sanctions would hurt the poorest most", etc.) It was all just a BS rationale to keep from implementing sanctions against a government considered a US ally (the ANC was associated with Communism), but it was all taken seriously at the time. Vintage Cold War logic. A watered-down bill eventually passed the Democratic House, and went to the GOP-controlled Senate, where it was diluted and barely passed. Reagan had not anticipated this, and vetoed the bill. And it was then over-ridden. His administration never went along with the sanctions implementation. By the time the GHW Bush administration took over and did somewhat better, the jig was up. The Berlin wall fell in 1989, removing the "bulwark against communism" rationale for US support of apartheid, and Mandela was released from jail in 1990. * I have some attachment to the issue because my roommates were involved in sit-ins, a tent city, and other political organizing at the time. It was a defining issue of the mid-1980s.
Theodores 13y ago
He may well have been seen as a terrorist by Our Great Leaders, however, he could also count on a lot of support from people all around the world that wanted an end to Apartheid. This support was wide ranging - words, weapons, money and organisational support. Currently we are in a struggle against totalitarianism, the privatised war machine and the outsourced surveillance state. This enemy has global reach and the only countries that are not aligned with it are places like Cuba. What countries do we have outside our borders to go to for practical help from the system of oppression we find ourselves in? What external support can we get? Nelson Mandela came out of retirement to tell the likes of Bush and Blair exactly what he thought of them. This was not the plan, he wanted to enjoy time with his grand children rather than have to continue working. He was not best pleased with general stewardship of life on planet earth. I doubt that he had a complete grasp of how insidious the current situation is but I am sure he had the general idea. It is sad that he should be departing from the world when things are going 'Dark Ages' rather than 'Enlightenment'.
mason240 13y ago
That is such a blatantly illogical statement I'm shocked to see it on board where the userbase deals in applying logic for living. AM is an A. B is an A. Therefore B = AM.
- JackFr 13y ago
  Are you new here?
aestra 13y ago
They never taught me in school the FBI and the NSA wiretapped and had excessive surveillance on Martin Luther King Jr. to 'neutralize' him as an effective civil rights leader. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther_King,_Jr.#FBI_surveillance_and_wiretapping http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther_King,_Jr.#FBI_sur...

knodi 13y ago

RIP Madiba.

kvnwng 13y ago

Here's to hoping that his death will at least galvanize a more unified approach to politics in SA to honor his memory.

kohanz 13y ago

“It always seems impossible until it’s done.” Looking through a list of Mandela's quotes [1], there is an uncanny parallel between his viewpoint and those of an entrepreneur. RIP Nelson. “I am fundamentally an optimist. Whether that comes from nature or nurture, I cannot say. Part of being optimistic is keeping one’s head pointed toward the sun, one’s feet moving forward. There were many dark moments when my faith in humanity was sorely tested, but I would not and could not give myself up to despair. That way lays defeat and death.” “After climbing a great hill, one only finds that there are many more hills to climb.” [1] http://newsone.com/1397375/nelson-mandela-quotes-93rd-birthday/ http://newsone.com/1397375/nelson-mandela-quotes-93rd-birthd...

macspoofing 13y ago
>Looking through a list of Mandela's quotes [1], there is an uncanny parallel between his viewpoint and those of an entrepreneur Except the startup entrepreneur is talking about a photo-sharing app.

paskakap 13y ago

Well, lots of celebrities have died lately. Paul Walker and now Nelson Mandellion.

aaron695 13y ago
Remember it comes in 3's, it's not over yet.
marquis 13y ago
Mandela isn't a 'celebrity': he's one of the few people in recent times who changed the world we live in for the better. His life's work allows millions of us to have hope.
- aaron695 13y ago
  I think it's more a commentary on the inane comments that are being made on the issue by people who seriously have no idea on who he was and what he did but want to jump on the bandwagon of his 'celebrity' status.
  - onebaddude 13y ago
    >I think it's more a commentary on the inane comments that are being made on the issue by people who seriously have no idea on who he was and what he did but want to jump on the bandwagon of his 'celebrity' status. This was all I could think reading this thread. Mandela, and his undertakings, probably never crossed the minds of 90% of the participants in this thread. I know very little about him myself, outside of his celebrity. But suddenly everyone has an opinion.
rsynnott 13y ago
This is a bizarre comparison.

jdmitch 13y ago

Amandla! Awethu!

ps4fanboy 13y ago

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2002&dat=19981011&id=-KZUAAAAIBAJ&sjid=XzsNAAAAIBAJ&pg=5864,2664027 http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2002&dat=19981011&id=-...

nashequilibrium 13y ago
did you actually read that article, i did?
- ps4fanboy 13y ago
  yes

davidgerard 13y ago

Before you read other politicians' platitudes on his death, you should read Mandela's speech on his release from jail: http://www.anc.org.za/show.php?id=4520 http://www.anc.org.za/show.php?id=4520

ASpring 13y ago

Goodbye to a hero in forgiveness who demonstrated truly magnificent character during the post-apartheid transition in South Africa. More world leaders should strive to follow in his footsteps.

cma 13y ago
We only took him off the terrorist list, nearly a sort of minor apartheid of its own, a few years ago.
- JackFr 13y ago
  Notwithstanding the glib idiocy of maintaining an equivalence between a list of terrorist organizations and apartheid, I have to admit I was shocked by the fact that leaders of the ANC, esp. including Mandela, could not get a visa to the US until 2008, and that it took an Act of Congress. I would have assumed that it would have been an administrative decision of the State Department.
  - cma 13y ago
    Depending on your age you may or may not be shocked to find out that women couldn't serve on juries until the 1970s.
    - justincormack 13y ago
      Thats not a reasonable summary of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taylor_v._Louisiana https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taylor_v._Louisiana eg see http://www.mass.gov/courts/sjc/jury-system-e.html http://www.mass.gov/courts/sjc/jury-system-e.html
    - JackFr 13y ago
      I'm only made to feel better by knowledge that the last Swiss canton held out on women's suffrage until 1990.
- TwoNineFive 13y ago

tunnuz 13y ago

Goodbye Bafana.

koenigdavidmj 13y ago
That just means 'boys'. I expect that you're looking for 'Madiba', his clan name.
- tunnuz 13y ago
  I know nothing of Afrikaans, I was just quoting Goodbye Bafana (2007) http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0438859 http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0438859 (worth watching if you haven't already).
  - SideburnsOfDoom 13y ago
    You mean Xhosa, not Afrikaans.
    - tunnuz 13y ago
      That one.
luiperd 13y ago
Bafana actually refers to the South African soccer team (correctly “Bafana Bafana”), and does translate to "boys." Just an fyi.

CountHackulus 13y ago

Truly his legacy will provide inspiration for generations.

michaelmcmillan 13y ago

Mandela has had such an impact on the world, this is sad.

marquis 13y ago

I hope he has been heartened to see the shift towards greater equality and justice in the world, to which he was a strong voice and since my childhood he's remained one of the most relevant world leaders.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

davidgerard 13y ago

Well, damn.

carlmcqueen 13y ago

Very Sad News. Death of a truly great man.

sschueller 13y ago

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1SWKumsKNo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1SWKumsKNo

tobyjsullivan 13y ago

Few men lead such a full, adventurous and meaningful life. An inspiration to all.

kika 13y ago
Inspired me to put a tire around someone's neck, fill it with gas and light it up.

fuddle 13y ago

I would recommend anyone interested in his life to read his autobiography, Long Walk to Freedom. http://www.amazon.ca/Long-Walk-Freedom-Autobiography-Mandela/dp/0316548189 http://www.amazon.ca/Long-Walk-Freedom-Autobiography-Mandela...

notahacker 13y ago
The thing that struck me about Nelson Mandela as he wanted to be seen in that book is that he tried very hard to see the good in people. Perhaps it's to be expected that he's forgiving about former sworn enemies who ended up releasing him and stepping aside so he could dismantle the apartheid regime they'd spent upholding, and sidesteps any qualms he might have had about some of the region's truly obnoxious dictators who backed the ANC when they were outlaws. But he also takes the time to note when some of his less pleasant jailers displayed unexpected courtesy. Some of the exchanges from his original trial are quite remarkable too, especially those involving the prosecutions "expert witness" on the subject of communism

natural219 13y ago

Does anyone have any materials about Nelson Mandela's life that's accessible to a youngster like me? I know he was hugely important for ending something called "apartheid" in South Africa which sounds pretty horrible, I just don't know what it is. Rest in peace.

Segmentation 13y ago
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nelson_Mandela http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nelson_Mandela http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apartheid_in_South_Africa http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apartheid_in_South_Africa http://www-cs-students.stanford.edu/~cale/cs201/apartheid.hist.html http://www-cs-students.stanford.edu/~cale/cs201/apartheid.hi...
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
csmuk 13y ago
Wikipedia...
roschdal 13y ago
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nelson_Mandela http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nelson_Mandela Nelson Mandela's Life Story - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgQBoXsxr8w http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgQBoXsxr8w Mandela release from prison speech - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpw8AU3wMsM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpw8AU3wMsM
guyht 13y ago
Quick summary from the BBC article 1918 Born in the Eastern Cape 1943 Joined African National Congress 1956 Charged with high treason, but charges dropped after a four-year trial 1962 Arrested, convicted of incitement and leaving country without a passport, sentenced to five years in prison 1964 Charged with sabotage, sentenced to life 1990 Freed from prison 1993 Wins Nobel Peace Prize 1994 Elected first black president 1999 Steps down as leader 2001 Diagnosed with prostate cancer 2004 Retires from public life 2005 Announces his son has died of an HIV/Aids-related illness
13y ago

casca 13y ago

Mandela reminds us that it's possible for a single man to create peace amidst a huge push for war. Forgiveness is the first step in changing a society, without it we are doomed to repeat the failures of our ancestors. He continues to be an inspiration, particularly us Africans. Rest in peace Madiba.

mathieuh 13y ago
Do not allow liberals to sanitise history. Mandela was a symbol of non-peaceful resistance and of the progress that it can bring.
- gadders 13y ago
  Do not allow liberals to do anything. Safer that way.
  - warfangle 13y ago
    Do not allow anyone to do anything. Safer that way. /reductio-ad-fascism
    - gadders 13y ago
      Ha ha. Fair point.
  - pyrocat 13y ago
    U.S. GOP strategy summed up right there.
    - gadders 13y ago
      You say it like it's a bad thing.
      - aeturnum 13y ago
        Regardless of the success of one side's v.s. the other side's policies, a system which seeks to prevent either political "side" from accomplishing anything can hardly be called democratic. Only by honestly attempting mutually exclusive policies can we discover their efficacy in the real world. I think your eagerness to see a substantial proportion of the population lose their political agency to be far more disturbing than any particular political issue.

jbrooksuk 13y ago

R.I.P.

wehadfun 13y ago

"I have cherished the ideal of a democratic and free society in which all persons live together in harmony and with equal opportunities. It is an ideal which I hope to live for and to achieve. But if needs be, it is an ideal for which I am prepared to die" Mandela

davidgerard 13y ago

https://twitter.com/sarahlicity/status/408717299097403393/photo/1 https://twitter.com/sarahlicity/status/408717299097403393/ph...

dredmorbius 13y ago
Are you positive of the accuracy of that? There's some dispute in the Twitter thread.

middleclick 13y ago

A life well lived. Fought very hard but helped millions of people to get their basic human right. For to be thought of to be lower because of your race just because of where you were accidentally born is perhaps the worst form of discrimination possible.

harichinnan 13y ago

Nelson Mandela was one of the few people to win both India's and Pakistan's highest civilian awards. A testament to his work on world peace.

elwell 13y ago

After reading the Wikipedia article on Umkhonto we Sizwe[0], I found out he did a lot of wrong [1], but his peaceful efforts should be praised. [0] - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umkhonto_we_Sizwe http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umkhonto_we_Sizwe [1] - "South African police statistics indicate that, in the period 1976 to 1986, approximately 130 people were killed by what the source calls 'terrorists'. Of these, about thirty were members of various security forces and one hundred were civilians."

streptomycin 13y ago
in the period 1976 to 1986, approximately 130 people were killed by what the source calls 'terrorists' FWIW, Mandela was in prison at the time. From the 60s to 1990.

dredmorbius 13y ago

Those who were around in the 1980s might remember and appreciate The Specials AKA: http://fixyt.com/watch?v=AgcTvoWjZJU http://fixyt.com/watch?v=AgcTvoWjZJU For those who weren't: this song protesting Mandela's incarceration got widespread airplay around the world. I'm not sure I can recall a similar case of popular music taking on a case of protesting for the freedom of a single individual, and suspect it played a large part in waking consciousness to the inequity of Apartheid and much of the pressure which was brought to bear in the late 1980s against South Africa.

scott_s 13y ago
Bob Dylan's "The Hurricane": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hr8Wn1Mwwwk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hr8Wn1Mwwwk
- jaggederest 13y ago
  Bob Dylan's song is about Rubin "Hurricane" Carter: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubin_Carter http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubin_Carter
  - dredmorbius 13y ago
    My read was that Dylan's song was of a similar nature, not on the same topic.
stan_rogers 13y ago
Same cause, different song: Johhny Clegg and Savuka Asimbonanga. Even if you didn't check the liner notes and couldn't understand Zulu (or, I guess, Clegg's rendition of Zulu, which was somewhat click-challenged) the song was heart-rending.
seewhat 13y ago
Another song for Mandela, though released in 1989 as a B-side single: Simple Minds - Mandela Day... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandela_Day_(song) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandela_Day_(song)

richardjordan 13y ago

I still remember sitting in front of the tv for hours, the day he was released. The long, extended coverage of his exit from prison, delayed as he spent his time saying goodbye to inmates and captors alike.

apsec112 13y ago

I have great respect for Mandela, but I have flagged this story because it's causing so much political flaming. "Please avoid introducing classic flamewar topics unless you have something genuinely new to say about them." "The worst thing to post or upvote is something that's intensely but shallowly interesting. Gossip about famous people, funny or cute pictures or videos, partisan political articles, etc. If you let that sort of thing onto a news site, it will push aside the deeply interesting stuff, which tends to be quieter." (with reference to the comments here, not the story itself)

richardjordan 13y ago
He's one of the most important world figures of the second half of the 20th century. Pretty legitimate news topic given the other non-tech topics that get plugged into this feed nowadays.
- waterlesscloud 13y ago
  True, but it's also true over half this thread is political flame-warring.
- rimantas 13y ago
  Can you explain why he was one of the most important world figures, not jus African? I am start to suspect there is some white guilt involved :(
  - richardjordan 13y ago
    if that's what you suspect then you're grossly ignorant of world affairs for the second half of the 20th century
CanSpice 13y ago
You should probably flag the comments instead of the story, then. This is hardly gossip about someone famous, or shallowly interesting news.
13y ago

christogreeff 13y ago

RIP. :(

arjn 13y ago

Out of the night that covers me, Black as the pit from pole to pole, I thank whatever gods may be For my unconquerable soul. In the fell clutch of circumstance I have not winced nor cried aloud. Under the bludgeonings of chance My head is bloody, but unbowed. Beyond this place of wrath and tears Looms but the Horror of the shade, And yet the menace of the years Finds, and shall find, me unafraid. It matters not how strait the gate, How charged with punishments the scroll, I am the master of my fate: I am the captain of my soul. - William Ernest Henley Rest in Peace Nelson Mandela

arethuza 13y ago
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." "Nelson Mandela gave a copy of this speech to François Pienaar, captain of the South African rugby team, before the start of the 1995 Rugby World Cup" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizenship_in_a_Republic http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizenship_in_a_Republic

kome 13y ago

He was a true communist and a good man. He lived up to his ideals. I'm sad he is gone. http://i.imgur.com/CwLZLY5.jpg http://i.imgur.com/CwLZLY5.jpg / http://s1.lemde.fr/image/2013/12/05/644x322/3526517_6_2605_nelson-mandela_4089385eb0defe8392726b0ca985e7fb.jpg http://s1.lemde.fr/image/2013/12/05/644x322/3526517_6_2605_n...

plg 13y ago

I wonder if political scientists on their polisci message boards have debates about programming languages and tech startups

001sky 13y ago

We felt that without violence there would be no way open to the [African] people to succeed in their struggle against the principle of [white supremacy]. All lawful modes of expressing opposition to this principle had been closed by legislation, and we were placed in a position in which we had either to accept a permanent state of inferiority, or to defy the Government. We chose to defy the law. We first broke the law in a way which avoided any recourse to violence; when this form was legislated against, and then the Government resorted to a show of force to crush opposition to its policies, only then did we decide to answer violence with violence. But the violence which we chose to adopt was not terrorism. We who formed [Umkhonto] were all members of the [African National Congress], and had behind us the [ANC] tradition of non-violence and negotiation as a means of solving political disputes. We believe that [South Africa] belongs to all the people who live in it, and not to one group..."[1] Interesting, and as always, relevant words. [1] http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/nelson-mandela-life-story--the-speeches-an-ideal-for-which-i-am-prepared-to-die-8406469.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/nelson-mandel...

bitops 13y ago

I'm a little sad to see that there's not a black bar across the top of HN due to this story.

rangibaby 13y ago
Is it really sad when a person who has lived a long, full life dies of old age?
- capex 13y ago
  It is a great loss no matter how old Mandela was or how peacefully he died.
- bitops 13y ago
  I think it's safe to say that both John McCarthy and Dennis Ritchie lived full, rich lives. They did much to change the world but Mandela is in the stratosphere when it comes to that. I say he deserves a black bar.

kimonos 13y ago

I honor this man and his principles.. Rest in peace..

j45 13y ago

Rest in peace Mr. Mandela, most of us can't imagine devoting ourselves to a cause for 27 years, for others. Your startup was freedom for all, no technology can compare.

nashequilibrium 13y ago

Is Paul going to put the black bar up on Hacker News?

ericthegoodking 13y ago

R.I.P

read 13y ago

"It always seems impossible until it's done." - Nelson Mandela

bertomartin 13y ago

Great man

lennel 13y ago

We moved back to SA a week after Mandela was released. My thoughts on SA as someone who saw this goal of transformation fail. Mandela was an incredible humanist, more so than people realise. his government was run on charm, persuasion and super bright people completely unqualified for their roles. The outcome of that was that technocrats (given the failings) and the movement of technocrats took over post (Mbeki). The vacuum (of burocratic skill and knowledge [i go uggh]) which was running a system that big could not (and never can) be built in a resistance movement. So arise the technocrats. Technocrats cannot understand/appease the person living in a shack not having any money or future 20 years post apartheid. So now the deal they negotiated in 90+ 96 + 99 (and yes it was a good deal in many ways (Chicago school) bad in so many as well) has only created a greater imbalance. Now we have entered the era of populists. figure that one out yourself. Mandela's death will do more for SA and a fair bit of southern africa than most occurrences will, and era of memberance, reading reflection, humanism will come about. for a while. My greatest grievence with Mandela simply lies in that he did not break up the tri party alliance early (trade unions, communist party and the anc which is extremely right wing in contrast) allowing them to get 60%+ votes which effectively means it is a new dictatorship. (i am sorry if 80% of the votes are prone to gerrymandering + an extremely uneducated populace i won't call it a true democracy - then again first past the post - hah!). a great human. the meaning and writing and so indefinitely misused from now.

flycaliguy 13y ago

The ultimate hacker

ismail 13y ago

A sad day for the world. Many who did not live through the period 93-94 do not realise how on a Knife Edge South Africa was at the time, it could have gone either way. The country could have descended into civil war, but my personal opinion is it didn't, in large part due to Madiba. The iconic moment of him at the 97 world cup, his constant speeches on establishing restraint.

tagawa 13y ago

The Onion puts it nicely: http://www.theonion.com/articles/nelson-mandela-becomes-first-politician-to-be-miss,34755/ http://www.theonion.com/articles/nelson-mandela-becomes-firs...

Mustafabei 13y ago

I wish there was an easier and more sincere way to pay our gratitudes... RIP great man

dodyg 13y ago

His lasting legacy is South Africa's constitution. http://www.info.gov.za/documents/constitution/1996/a108-96.pdf http://www.info.gov.za/documents/constitution/1996/a108-96.p...

known 13y ago

A terrorist is a freedom fighter who isn't on your side.

icecreampain 13y ago

Sigh. Before anyone goes off harking how Mandela almost single-handedly brought down Apartheid, think of the following: - SA has vast mineral resources... - ...that the banksters wanted - ...which SA didn't want to share (give away for almost nothing) - CIA starts orchestrating a fall of apartheid. Their tool are the liberals: "Apartheid is terrible for the poor blacks" - De Klerk gets told by Those In Charge to release Mandela, or else - Mandela released, ANC take over with a majority of the vote - ANC are corrupt like a motherfucker, privatize the government mines - Mines are bought for cheap by foreign multinationals - Mine workers still treated like shit, shot by police if they protest - The situation has gotten so bad that the police mix statistics to make it look better than it is[1] - How about the Free State spending 140 million rand on a site that costs a few thousands in reality? How's that for corruption. [2] - Black people are showing up in interviews here and there saying that it was better during apartheid [3] - CIA have gotten what they wanted, liberals have forgotten about SA [1] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsFOkUY_vkE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsFOkUY_vkE [2] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKfemruhnC0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKfemruhnC0 [3] Here is some "better during apartheid": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJ_7JbTZXng http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJ_7JbTZXng http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NydY9WLbCwc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NydY9WLbCwc Other things I haven't mentioned: The jewish-led South African Communist Party working together with the ANC to promote violent uprising, Mandela approved Church Street bombing, killing civilians, Winnie Mandels pastime of burning non-ANC voters alive (necklacing). Etc. However bad it was during Apartheid, it's even worse now.

seewhat 13y ago
An economic angle, summarised in: Lowenberg, Anton D. "Why South Africa’s Apartheid Economy Failed", 1997 http://www.freepatentsonline.com/article/Contemporary-Economic-Policy/19964177.html http://www.freepatentsonline.com/article/Contemporary-Econom... TLDR:- 1. Decades of intensifying international isolation over RSA's political climate. 2. RSA's growing reliance on international short-term loans in 1980s, leading to balance of payments crisis. 3. Threat and introduction of economic sanctions by international community. 4. ... Leading to increasing economic costs to industry and individuals, which reduced internal support for Apartheid amongst South Africa's elite. 5. Coincidental fall of the Soviet Union, leading to the West's reduced support of RSA against revolutionary front-line states. (Not to discount the struggle for equality amongst non-white South Africans, embodied by Mandela and others.) EDIT: Clarity

JonoW 13y ago

RIP Madiba. As a South African this is a helluva sad day, but we knew it was coming. I think I was 10 when he was released, but I had never heard of him before, partly because of my age, partly because of the media gagging. I remember all the adults being worried that retribution and revenge was coming. But it never did, all he ever did was preach reconciliation. My best memory of him must him presenting Francois Pienaar with the '95 rugby world cup trophy, it sounds lame but it was such a unifying moment for the country.

rooshdi 13y ago

“Overcoming poverty is not a task of charity, it is an act of justice. Like slavery and apartheid, poverty is not natural. It is man-made and it can be overcome and eradicated by the actions of human beings. Sometimes it falls on a generation to be great. YOU can be that great generation. Let your greatness blossom.” Thank you Madiba. May your peace rest in all.