9 ms·

A society of phone zombies

121 points by stevenleeg 13y ago

smugengineer69 13y ago
I really disagree with the sentiments here. Like many of you, I'm on the internet quite literally 14-16 out of every 24 hours, actively using it for about 13 of those. I've had a smartphone continuously since the palm treo 600 in 2003. But never once have I felt powerless against it. I have one simple rule: don't use it when I'm talking to people. (Unless we want to look something up on Wikipedia, in which case we do it together). This is enough. Maybe I just don't know what all you other people are doing with your phones that make them so irresistible, but I am able to move fluidly between online and offline action in the world with no second thought. If I get a notification, I take the phone out for a second to read it and put it right back away. Many times, the phone could be anything: If I have a magazine nearby instead, I read that. Or subway map. Or shampoo bottle. What's the real complaint here? I've seen articles like this 100 times and frankly none of them ever brings anything original to the table. I actually think this is because they derive their clickability through their vagueness. Everyone knows some jackass who brings his phone out during thanksgiving dinner with grandma, and everyone has almost run into someone who has been looking at their phone instead if the street. Is this really all you're complaining about? I'd call these minor inconveniences at best, rude behavior at worst. Predictably, In an effort to fill the void left by actual specific examples and details, these arguments/videos take on some sort of mystical "not enjoying the world" vibe. How do they make this leap so readily? It's easy to do because everyone loves to think the rest of the world is made up of zombies. But does it even logically follow?! That video he references has come up everywhere and seems to resonate with a lot of people. It seems to focus on the idea of savoring the moment, whatever that means. Our Galtian heroine can do it, no one else can. I see this woman as desperately and reactionarily clinging to a past that never existed, or at best an artisan-crafted inconvenience-sporting charming paradise. Let's get to specifics. Let's discuss specific times when we think it's not ok to talk on the phone -- at dinner, when walking on a crowded street, with grandma -- and let's give up on this high-blown pretentious rhetoric about connecting with the world and savoring the moment. It's frankly counterproductive--instead of discussing the new norms that always-connected technology dictates in specific detail, these articles have wandered into mystical, unrefutable territory that is usually the subject of religious belief, not pragmatic policy-setting.
- chasing 13y ago
  Excellent comment. There's a weird kind of "back in the idealistic days of yore" element to this. Texting during meals, for example, isn't something I regularly do. But. I can think of many situations where it's been important in solving a social problem. For example, if someone got lost en route and needs a little help. Or is running late and just wants to politely let you know to go ahead and order. To ignore those messages would be kind of an asshole move. Remember when not everyone carried mobile phones? Basic communication when people were out-and-about was wildly inconvenient if not completely impossible. Tons of time and energy got wasted doing basic tasks we now completely take for granted.
snide 13y ago
The easiest rule to follow: Never pull out your phone unless you politely excuse yourself from the people you are with. This will dramatically limit the amount of times you check, and on the off chance you really do need to check your phone, say a phone call, then it will be a politeness to those around you. Do this just one night and you'll feel embarrassed every time you need to check it.
- voyou 13y ago
  "Never pull out your phone unless you politely excuse yourself from the people you are with." Among people I know, that is the standard practice; it's not something I've ever heard anyone advocate, it's just what everyone does. I'm intrigued as to what context you (and, by the looks of the comments here, lots of other HN posters) are in where people just break off in the middle of social interactions to mess about with their phones. That's such a basic violation of (what I take to be) standard interpersonal norms I have trouble imagining anyone doing it.
  - graeme 13y ago
    How old are you? I'm 28, and people my age and younger do this all the time. The younger they are, the less likely there is to be any apology.
    - aridiculous 13y ago
      I had a friend (not a close one, but good enough to arrange one-on-one meetings in NYC) repeatedly pull out his phone in the middle of conversations. Everything just stopped for a minute 4-5 times/hr. I then defriended him in real life. But then you also have the people who just scroll through Instagram or something similarly non-linguistic while you're in a conversation. They say they're listening but they "just do this naturally" or "I can do two things at once". Whether their phone use is blocking or non-blocking of our conversation, it's simply a gesture of disrespect if done more than once or twice. If you don't like my company enough to give full attention, or your other friend is in an emergency, just excuse yourself and leave. I think I'm going to start excusing myself when I find my friends are doing it.
seiji 13y ago
"Seeing Eye People" -- someone to guide you through the world while you text and walk crowded streets: http://improveverywhere.com/2013/04/30/seeing-eye-people/ http://improveverywhere.com/2013/04/30/seeing-eye-people/
mikecane 13y ago
Meanwhile, this photo has been spreading like wildfire on Twitter: https://twitter.com/johnmaeda/status/406759966712684544 https://twitter.com/johnmaeda/status/406759966712684544
- chrismonsanto 13y ago
  I don't know if you endorse the message behind that photo or not, but I've never taken someone out to dinner who busted out the newspaper while I was trying to talk to them.
  - hobs 13y ago
    You beat me to the punch!
  - vezzy-fnord 13y ago
    Indeed, plus it's a completely different social setting: public transport. Non sequitur all the way.
    - voyou 13y ago
      But do you often find people around you checking their phones while in the middle of doing something else? It seems to me that people mostly use smartphones to kill time, when they're not doing anything else; on public transport or while waiting for something, that is, just the sorts of times you'ld see people reading the newspaper.
  - jdminhbg 13y ago
    On the other hand, nobody who's busted out a newspaper on a train was talking to friends or family on the other end of it.
  - nly 13y ago
    This is such a great idea for a response though. If in the middle of a conversation, and someone whips out their iPhone on you, BOOM...broadsheet
  - 13y ago
chimeracoder 13y ago
I'm really glad that this was written, and even more glad to see it getting some attention on HackerNews. By definition, most of us on this site live our lives by technology. Especially as engineers, it's easy to get caught up in thinking about the tools we use, how to use them better, how to use them faster, and how to use the more. Just as important, however, is the ability to step back and think about when we should be using these tools, and how. Technology is an incredibly powerful tool, but it's simply that. A violin is not music; it is simply a medium (literally) that a musician uses to create music. It's all too easy to confuse the technique with the goal.
- vezzy-fnord 13y ago
  I've been trying to say the same thing as the OP for a while now, but often when I do, I tend to get branded a "Luddite" or even get told to "stop reaping the benefits of technology". It's funny how you get called a Luddite by people who don't see anything past the shiny user interface.
dante9999 13y ago
Relevant http://9gag.com/gag/a9d1151?ref=t http://9gag.com/gag/a9d1151?ref=t
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
taylodl 13y ago
I'm an iPhone user and I use the Do Not Disturb feature so only calls from my immediate family will ring through. In the Notification Center I never configure applications to buzz the phone - instead I opt for the application icon to be badged when it has something for me. I think of it as making the phone work for me over my becoming a slave of the phone.
- endianswap 13y ago
  I understand the motivation behind this, but after doing the same thing I find myself checking my phone more because it no longer alerts me when there's something I might care about. Instead I check it much more frequently than I need to because I have no idea which little addiction icons will be lit up when I check each time.
rog-r 13y ago
Im at a birthday party right now... :-/
chrismonsanto 13y ago
I'm a bit extreme, but I don't own a smartphone, I never have owned a smartphone, and I never plan to own a smartphone. I already know what it will do to my brain, because I spend all day at my computer, and it's a constant struggle to not waste time on the Internet. (Most of my best work has been done on pen and paper while taking a walk.) Even when I'm not working, I like being disconnected. It gives me a chance to reflect on my life. Where I am, where I want to be. Ideas I have. I find it difficult to produce anything of value to myself or others when I am too busy consuming stuff through my screens. I think the worst part of smartphones are the cameras. I had an epiphany one day at some aquarium in NJ. The aquarium was mediocre, certainly nothing worth taking pictures of. But yet every group of people had to take videos of the fish, had to pose with the fish with their friends, etc (who knows why, those people will never view those videos ever). Of course all of this picture taking took so long that people got bored. Why not, they couldn't see the fish, after all. So of course, everyone got on their phones and goofed off, which made the crowds even MORE sluggish, which made the whole affair take longer, and which made the aquarium experience even more boring. I think that if phones were banned at the aquarium people would have gotten in and out more quickly, seen more fish, and had more fun. It's ironic that the smartphone--which is supposed to be whiz-bang-wow-entertainment-whenever-you-need-it--contributed heavily to making the aquarium experience boring for everyone. Sorry to ramble! This issue means a lot to me. For a funnier presentation of what I just said, check out Louis CK's standup (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zd2sRC3K9Hs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zd2sRC3K9Hs).
- eliteraspberrie 13y ago
  I don't own a smartphone either, and I don't normally carry a cellphone. I figure if everyone around me has one, I don't need one. The sad thing is when you meet new people and are expected to exchange phone numbers, it takes a little explaining to make sure they don't take "I don't have a phone" as "I couldn't come up with a more plausible excuse to never see you again."
  - jafaku 13y ago
    I don't own a smartphone either, and in my work days (I don't work anymore) potential employers always thought I didn't know much about technology (or anything else for that matter), just because of this. They wanted people who used all the latest stupid "apps", and were connected to the matrix 24/7 through many different channels.
arthurgibson 13y ago
Ha, once Google Glass goes mainstream no one will be pulling out phones, they can stare blankly at you and read whatever they want. Seriously, there's a middle ground with everything, too much TV, on the laptop, playing video games. Individuals need to evaluate their own life and valuable interactions. At least the guy in the video made the hike instead of getting a virtual tour.
autonomy77 13y ago
Good article, but there seems to be a current trend towards being either a full-time tech-head or a neo-luddite who rejects technology. I'd argue it's possible to be both. I have to be (and actually rather enjoy) being 100% plugged in for my job - yet I also enjoy powering down all my tech and spending dedicated time with my family with no devices online. I think we sometimes forget that we're allowed to do them both - but sometimes the balance gets skewed. Plug in if you want to, but when you unplug, unplug completely. It's bliss.
dictum 13y ago
> Next time you’re in a restaurant with friends, have everyone put their phones stacked and face down in the center of the table. If anyone takes their phone off of the stack during the meal, they have to pay everyone else’s bill. It’s a fun way to make sure everyone is off their phone without seeming like an imposing ass. If what keeps people from checking their phone is the threat of having to foot an expensive bill, it's not so much a society of phone zombies, but a society of people with no self control.
- endianswap 13y ago
  With a term like zombies, it's implied that there's a shortage of self-control at play. The risk of paying the bill can be seen as simply a training exercise to build confidence in a non-phone experience. Baby steps!
- graeme 13y ago
  Do you have zero addictions? Are you a perfect, rational person that never does anything against their better judgment? If so, congratulations. As for myself, I have no problem avoiding sugar, bad foods, alcohol, lottery tickets, cigarettes, drugs. I have dodged all those bullets. But the internet has a hold on me. I want to use it less, but it's compelling. Some people don't have that, but they suffer other compulsions. Unless you have zero compulsions, I would not be so quick to judge others.
  - dictum 13y ago
    I'm not judging other people. I think it's a crisis of self control for me as much as it is for other people. I'm still undecided on whether stuff is getting more addictive (http://www.paulgraham.com/addiction.html http://www.paulgraham.com/addiction.html), or we're losing our ability to control ourselves, or both.
    - graeme 13y ago
      I see, I misunderstood what you were getting at. I thought you were looking down on those with no self control.
arh68 13y ago
I stopped using my iPhone 4 a while ago. I've got a Nokia now. Things are mostly the same, though I was told my voice comes through much better now.
- lttlrck 13y ago
  It's great to hear your friends are happy with your purchase.
deleted 13y ago
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ryguytilidie 13y ago
Reminds me of the time my wife's mother was very sick with cancer and we were at dinner and her dad was texting her updates. One time we happened to be at dinner and he sent her some messages so they were texting back and forth for 2-3m. During this time, the older gentleman at the table next to us actually says excuse me, can you get off your phone? You kids always being on your phone is getting really old. Because, you know, at 31, I personally embody ALL kids. I guess maybe the moral of the story for me is that we would probably be happier people if we weren't fretting about a harmless thing people were doing and instead focused on our own happiness. Maybe instead of sitting there getting grumpy that a stranger was looking at a screen this guy could have just had a conversation with the person at his table? Maybe its time for people to stop throwing a fit about things other people are doing and maybe that would make us all a bit happier.
- jamestanderson 13y ago
  I think you and the article raise some good points. I guess I'm vain enough to think that when I take someone out to lunch I expect at least the majority of their attention. I won't fault them for replying to a text. But if you're browsing Twitter/Facebook/whatever while I'm trying to have a conversation with you, I'd naturally be annoyed as I think anyone would. Wouldn't you? I'm surprised that the older gentleman would say something, though.
  - ryguytilidie 13y ago
    I agree with you but "if you're browsing Twitter/Facebook/whatever while I'm trying to have a conversation with you, I'd naturally be annoyed as I think anyone would" just isn't relevant to the situation at hand. One of my main problems with the article is that the author projects the "this person must just be browsing twitter/fb and getting ZERO VALUE FROM ANYTHING THEY ARE DOING AND MUST BE UNHAPPY". Why does the possibility of this even enter the authors mind, let alone turn into a certainty?
- DanielBMarkham 13y ago
  This is a terrible comment, and I want to explain why. It subtly changes the subject. It's not about what others think of your technology use. It's what you think about it yourself. The reason many of us feel moved by the article and the video isn't some need to tell others what to do, it's the recognition that we ourselves are missing out on important parts of life in some kind of weird attempt to become a TV reporter. So sure, for the .1% time that you're texting your sick wife with cancer and she's able to vicariously experience things, you are probably feeling pretty good about what you're doing. Now how about the other 99.9% of the time? Do you personally feel that all that tech use is in the interests of some greater good? If so, have fun with it. After watching my own habits, I am very doubtful that this is true. I see people all the time use tech in such a way that's directly opposed to their own best interests -- and they're smart enough to realize this, too. The problem isn't my judging them -- heck I don't care what people do -- it's that we're turning into a society that's spending significant time doing things that we don't want to do. They just give a bit of immediate gratification.
JonnieCache 13y ago
Author, if you're reading, kudos on the thin website. My eye muscles thank you. Anyway, this problem is easily solved: http://www.amazon.com/Nokia-Black-Unlocked-DualBand-Phone/dp/B0068ZAPB0/ref=sr_1_16?ie=UTF8&qid=1385831295&sr=8-16&keywords=nokia+1100 http://www.amazon.com/Nokia-Black-Unlocked-DualBand-Phone/dp...
- stevenleeg 13y ago
  Thanks :)! And yeah, I have a similar phone laying around that I've been thinking about trying. The battery life on those suckers is absolutely insane relative to smartphones!
  - JonnieCache 13y ago
    Yeah I charge mine once every few weeks. It takes about 20 minutes. If it played MP3s from an SD card it would be perfect. Not having the maps is occasionally annoying. Aside from that it's great, there really is no good reason to have a web browser in your pocket that can outweigh the damage from having the internet creep into real life. But then I never really used any apps back when I had a smartphone anyway. Maybe the highly industrious networker types won't find it so simple.
MaxScheiber 13y ago
In my opinion, one of the most egregious examples of phone zombie-ism is the amount of people taking pictures on their phones / tablets when at some sort of famous monument or location. To quote (of all people) Maddox: > I kept staring at "my" picture, looking for some glimmer of justification for its existence, I thought that maybe I could show this to my friends as proof that I'd seen the portrait with my own eyes. But I'm not in this picture, so there's no proof I was ever there. Even if I was in the picture, it could have been photoshopped. And why would I need to prove it to anyone anyway? I used to do this when I was younger, but I've come to realize that: 1. A professional photo of a famous destination looks seriously better than an iPhone photo. 2. The only reason people take these photos is to get more likes on Facebook and Instagram. 3. Nobody actually cares. I've found myself enjoying a photoworthy location much more when my head is out of my phone and focused on the scene itself. This notion has served as inspiration for a recent project and venture I've been working on.
- joezydeco 13y ago
  I've been travelling around Europe ever since I met my (now) wife and she taught me a great tip: the cheap postcard you can buy at the newsstand or souvenir kiosk in any scenic town will be light-years better than anything you could take. Instead of fretting about getting the perfect picture, why not just relax and enjoy the view?
chatmasta 13y ago
If overconsumption of technology harms productivity of people, great! Less competition for me. As they say, "it's a dog eat dog world." While you're browsing Facebook, I'm advancing myself in the world. Good luck catching me.
- gress 13y ago
  Do you consider yourself to be a sociopath?
  - coderdude 13y ago
    Are you one of those people who thinks they're a psychiatrist?
    - gress 13y ago
      Are you?
  - onedev 13y ago
    Why impose your own made up version of "normal" on other people in a world where literally everything is made up and everything will cease to exist one day?
    - gress 13y ago
      Where did I impose anything on anyone?
  - chatmasta 13y ago
    No. But I do see life as a race up whatever mountain(s) you choose to summit. Capitalism baby!
    - gress 13y ago
      Not all races involve being happy to see others in trouble.
blackhole 13y ago
To this day, I still don't own a smartphone. This will eventually change, because I need it for more practical things, like having a map and being able to search google for things while I'm on the road. But what completely boggles my mind is actually letting the phone buzz me for anything other than an actual phone call. Even when I'm at my desktop the only notifications I get are skype conversations, and sometimes I turn those off too. I think the problem isn't phones, it's notifications. We have become addicted to notifications on both phones and the desktop.
- gress 13y ago
  Ironically, I love the fact that I almost never receive unplanned phone calls anymore, and that when I want to talk to my friends, I can use video.
mcphilip 13y ago
Another component of a solution for this is giving parents better control over the time and energy kids are allowed to spend on their smartphone. As ADHD as I am as an adult, I wonder what the the effects an always on entertainment device would have had on my issues with distraction in my developmental years. Maybe this already exists, but ideally I'd like to have unrestricted voice, but limited non-voice (I.e app) usage settings per day on phones.
thenerdfiles 13y ago
Quot capita tot sensus.
deleted 13y ago
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matthew-wegner 13y ago
Oh, I don't know. I noticed this the other day, and I realized the root urge behind "phone zombie" is to connect with other people: Friends, news, the world at large. Mobile phones are the inevitable byproduct of humans being incredible social animals. (I try to minimize my own notifications and mobile phone usage, but to each their own).
- stevenleeg 13y ago
  Sure we're attempting to connect with other people, but I argue that it's degrading the quality of the connections we're supposed to be making in real life.
graeme 13y ago
There's one solution few people consider: don't get a data plan. The original iphone launch trained us that smartphones must have a data plan. You couldn't buy one without data. But now you can. I have an iphone with unlimited calls and texting, for $40 a month. I use wifi at home, but when I'm out and about I'm not connected. I've never had a single problem as a consequence. You might say "but....google maps!". I've found that without Google maps, I am forced to actually learn my way around. Within a day or two I know a new city better than most locals. My phone is much less distracting as a consequence.
- nly 13y ago
  Data is only going to get cheaper, and voice and SMS only plans are only going to get more scarce. Even without a data plan, prepaid in fact, 3 are 'only' charging $0.016 / MiB here in the UK. I remember when web hosts were charging rates that high. In another few years it's likely you won't even need to make the decision about whether you need or want a data plan or not. You'll just get data. At least I hope so.
  - graeme 13y ago
    Perhaps I wasn't clear. I wasn't avoiding data because of cost. I don't WANT it. Many people want their phones less distracting, but they lack the willpower not to check their phones. But remove the data plan, and you don't need willpower to avoid checking it.
- gurkendoktor 13y ago
  I wish there were GPRS-only plans. They're everything I need for Threema/WhatsApp/FB Messenger/whatever - which saves my friends $$$ on texts. My advice as an "iPhone under-user" (often without data plan): Forevermap is an OSM-based offline map app, and is good enough in many countries. Definitely good enough to find your way home. Never install Facebook with the excuse of messaging. The Facebook Messenger app is much more focused. There's an iOS app that has a relatively recent dump of StackOverflow if you want to code on the train. I'm not sure if I want to recommend it as the UI is really sketchy, but it has helped me.
ipsin 13y ago
What shocks me, as a bicycle commuter, is the number of people who cradle their smartphones in front of them while they drive. It's selfish and dangerous as hell, and those who do it exhibit the same really obvious symptoms as those on foot. Lack of situational awareness, delayed response, and the poor decision-making that results from those.
- dictum 13y ago
  > people who cradle their smartphones in front of them while they drive I wonder how Steve Roberts (http://microship.com/bike/index.html http://microship.com/bike/index.html) feels about them.
- baliex 13y ago
  I realise the danger to others is much greater if a driver is using their smartphone but I've seen my fair share of cyclists using them too. And as a bicycle commuter myself, I know how insane that is.
  - ipsin 13y ago
    I don't see that much around here, but that's probably because the roads are nuanced enough (read: cracked) to require your attention.
- leokun 13y ago
  > as a bicycle commuter Smartphone use in a vehicle is a problem, so I agree with the gist, but this part about you riding a bike is completely irrelevant to the point you made. But maybe you want some kind of cookie for being so respectful of the environment and conscientious enough to ride a bike on a regular basis. So I just wanted to take this moment and thank you for riding your bike. You're a good person. You should tell more people that you are a bicycle commuter so you can get more people to thank you for your service to the world.
  - ipsin 13y ago
    I think that you are missing my point, because the bicycle is entirely relevant. I own a car. I drive it. A lot. You didn't need to know that. But in the situation I described, I feel quite vulnerable, because I'm not in a car, and because I'm not on the sidewalk. In other words, because I'm on a bicycle.
Eduard 13y ago
I am a big fan of the current phone zombie generation! It helps me a lot to recruit new users for my website. I usually start by asking them "Could you do me a favor and take a look at my website. I've not checked my site on your kind of mobile phone". Currently, I have a success rate of 80 percent of users taking a look at the website, and out of them, roughly 70 percent go to sign up with Facebook. Besides getting new users, I get invaluable insight into my users' behavior and expectations while peeking at their phones. Additionally, I can check out how my website works on different kinds of mobile phones, OSes and tablets. So I am really happy with so many phone zombies.
sendos 13y ago
I call the effect smartphones are having on us "Information Obesity" [1]. Just like when food was scarce and people ate as much as they could, and now that food is abundant many people can't limit themselves to sensible amounts, a similar thing happened with information. When information was scarce, we consumed as much as we could, and now that it is abundant many people can't limit themselves to sensible amounts, and keep checking their email, twitter, reddit, HN, etc, on their smartphones. Just as we learned to teach people who to deal with food abundance (and not successfully yet, unfortunately) we should one day start to teach people who to deal with information abundance [1] http://andrewoneverything.com/post/43839194291/information-obesity http://andrewoneverything.com/post/43839194291/information-o...
chasing 13y ago
This argument has been made over and over and over for years. I enjoy my mobile device. It's extremely useful in many situations. Although I admit that it's sometimes a distraction for me and other people. But here's the thing: Mindless people will be mindless. They'll find a way. Inconsiderate people will be inconsiderate. If they have an iPhone in their pocket, maybe they'll use that as the tool of their rudeness. But it's the person at the helm, not the device. The solution isn't the removal or banning of the technology, but the age-old solution of introducing social norms about what is and is not acceptable behavior. We do this all the time with new technologies and other social changes. If you start sending a text message while I'm talking to you, that's extremely rude and unless you preface the act with "excuse me, I just realized I left my child at home next to an open flame and I need to make sure the nanny put him out" then I'm going to treat you as if you just perpetrated some combination of farting and shouting a racial slur. But if there are a few of us having lunch and you excuse yourself to send a couple of text messages or make a quick call while the rest of us chatter on, who cares? Go for it. The same rules of politeness and thoughtfulness apply. They're not at all hard to figure out. And I think almost everybody has. Except for the few who, like I said above, are going to find some way to be mindless or inconsiderate regardless of what's in their pocket.
- bdcravens 13y ago
  If they have an iPhone in their pocket, maybe they'll use that as the tool of their rudeness. Huh. Good to know that those who carry non-iPhones are inherently more polite.
  - pjscott 13y ago
    I'd call that a pretty radical reading of the text.
  - kalleboo 13y ago
    You didn't read the comment at all, did you?
    - bdcravens 13y ago
DenisM 13y ago
Once again I recommend the book "shallows - what the Internet is doing to our brains" by Nicolas Carr. 20% of the book is a list of references to scientific studies, so the book is not just another fluff-opinion piece. If you can't bring yourself to read a book, you might have a serious problem already :)
wellboy 13y ago
I've thought about this a lot. I have found out that when I'm busy anyways with walking in the city, on the train etc. and I can't really take time for myself or just relax, with my phone I'm able to organize things or meeting with friends for activities later, so that when I really have time for myself with no one bothering me, I have organized everything already. So what the smartphone enables me to do is that I can use 30 seconds here and there during my day when I'm busy anyways, and have that time free in the evenings for instance. These 30 seconds that I use around 100 times during the day, then amount to an hour additional free hour at the end of the day.
jccalhoun 13y ago
" Next time you’re in a restaurant with friends, have everyone put their phones stacked and face down in the center of the table. If anyone takes their phone off of the stack during the meal, they have to pay everyone else’s bill. It’s a fun way to make sure everyone is off their phone without seeming like an imposing ass." The author's definition of "not seeming like an imposing ass" is very different than mine. If anyone I knew suggested that I would probably end up never wanting to go out with them ever again. Yeah, screw that. If you don't want me using my phone tell me. Don't play stupid games. Of course I'll probably tell you to fuck off and go to hell...
polarix 13y ago
Does it change for you once we remove all visible or audible indications of others' distraction? Perhaps we should just start to expect that we never have anyone's full attention. Indeed we never did.
yresnob 13y ago
Yeah .."feed us with useless information" alright..like this guy's own article...
yresnob 13y ago
Yeah .."feed us with useless information" alright..like this guy's own article...
cheeko1234 13y ago
I wonder how the author's going to feel when the Oculus Rift becomes mainstream. We will be getting lost "inside" technology. Is that necessarily a bad thing?
fpgaminer 13y ago
I chock this up to a growing conflict between the past and the future of our civilization. A past where the only place you could be was exactly where you were, whether you liked it or not. A future where you can be anywhere, do anything, with anyone. Take a minute, and imagine all the places you would rather be right now, and imagine you could have anyone there with you. That's what humans lust for; it's why we spend so much money on vacations to exotic locations, or to live in nicer neighborhoods; nicer homes. But for the greater part of our history it has been exactly that; costly and time consuming. In the future, virtual worlds will be indistinguishable from the real world, and so the choice between the two will be simple. Why sit in an ugly cubicle in a stuffy office when you can be on a beach doing your work? Why drive 50 miles to visit an old friend, when both of you can go to the top of Mount Everest in the blink of an eye? Are your kids safe at school? Of course they are, because they are not physically at school, while at the same time getting lessons from the best teachers around the world. It can be easy to imagine that world, and be horrified by it, because we fear that we will use it only for pleasure; never work. All those things experiences which will be common place in the future, are luxuries now. So they seem like pleasures, vacations. They will merely be commonplace, though; a normal part of your day. Have smart phones and the internet destroyed work ethic? Of course not. People always goofed off that much. Your grandfather didn't work harder than you; he probably just did more manual labor than our more service oriented job-o-sphere. As for the fear of technology disconnecting people, I call baloney. Perhaps it has long been forgotten now, but it used to be that you'd kiss your loved ones goodbye in the morning and then never hear from them again until it was evening. Sometimes your significant other didn't show up. Stuck at work? Decided to hang out with friends? Mugged on the streets? Who knows! Then came along the telephone. Now you can stay in touch with those you care about, whenever you want. I don't call that technology destroying humanity. That's technology doing the most beautiful thing it can do; connect us. Back to what I was getting at about the past and future colliding. If we're ultimately headed into a future where we spend most of our lives living in the virtual/augmented, then what we see today is that awkward in-between phase. Because of the limitations of today, our exotic virtual worlds are crude websites like Hacker News, Twitter, Reddit, etc. But they are virtual worlds. They're little vacations we can go on. We get to meet new people, read new stories, experience new things. It's primitive. But it's already powerful. We forget so easily, because of the crudeness of the technology, that when we're online we are interacting with other live human beings. The only difference between that and the real world is that it isn't triggering our primal sense of reality. That will change. When I'm walking down the street, I see an ugly suburban landscape. I don't want to be there. I want to be on the exotic, tropical island called Hacker News reading about the success or failure of someone's dream, and maybe chat with them about it. That's beautiful to me. And thanks to modern technology I can choose to do that. A decade ago, I couldn't. I would have been stuck, staring at the cold concrete under my feet, awkwardly making conversation with someone I have nothing in common with. In other words, the author of the article talks about experiencing the world around you. But that speaks to old notions about what is around us. A hundred years ago, the world around us was limited to what was physically, gravitationally around us. Today, the world around us includes that which our smart phones allow us to see. We can experience not just our local space, but the lives of those halfway around the world. I say, don't isolate yourself, pick up the phone and experience the world around you. Now, I preach on this a bit because I don't see many people doing it. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate articles like Mr. Gattuso's, and I'll explain why in a moment. But I hardly ever see views like the one I expressed, written about. I believe it is because we're in such an awkward in-between right now. And it's hard to notice just how much good technology has done, especially if you demonize it. We don't question our ability to call our loved ones and let them know that we'll be a few hours late that night. It has become so much a part of the human experience, that when we demonize technology, we ignore how much we'll truly lose if we "put down the phone." Again, I do appreciate Mr. Gattuso's article greatly and all others like it. It's a reminder to us all that we need to be careful and adapt. Yes, the powerful new ability to be anywhere, and do anything, with anyone, will cause problems for a large group of people. Just like gambling is a problem for a lot of people. But this has always been the case. Everyone uses something to escape from where they should be. Books, TV, daydreaming, etc. It takes real effort to live a healthy and happy life; it never was easy. Personally, being an introvert, I'm all too familiar with how much effort it can take to have a healthy social life. Is ever advancing technology going to make it easier to be unhealthy and unhappy? Yes! Of course! Just like alcohol can be used responsibly to relax, and used irresponsibly to destroy lives. Smartphones too are a double-edged sword. But on the whole, my opinion is that technologies like these will not introduce problems that did not already exist. And the benefits they will provide, to connect us in ways we've never experience before in mankind's history, will provide such a tremendous wealth to our civilization we must not stop it. TL;DR: Put down your smartphone when you are where you want/should be. Pick it up, when you want to be somewhere else. How is that evil?
Tycho 13y ago
Smartphones are great but damned if I'll ever accept a company-email-enabled device. I think corporations are making a mistake by handing blackberrys out to everyone. You want to give your staff time and space to think about the big picture and the big problems, not constantly being monopolized by trivial emails in their quiet moments.
andor 13y ago
It's addictive behaviour. If you're ahem rather active on HN, you might be interested in the book "The Fix" by Damian Thompson.
brownbat 13y ago
This doesn't have to be all or nothing, you can use mobile devices to supplement social interaction. At some of our dinners, conversation will flow, and people will wonder about some fact, one of us will find it on wikipedia, conversation will ebb, and someone will check a feed for an interesting recent story to add to the discussion. We used to have petty bar arguments, but now we're all able to quickly identify what's simply a research question, and we get far less invested. We now have debates or probing discussions about issues and values that are deeper and more personal than "who was that guy in that movie from the 80s." I'd avoid guidance that tells you to always set some technology aside in some situations, and instead ask, "How can I use this tool to make what I'm doing better?" Just keep in mind that you're involved in a group project, and the goal is increasing the total group's enjoyment, not solely increasing your personal enjoyment. If you get that, then setting tech aside isn't necessary. If you don't get that, then setting tech aside isn't sufficient.
rusabd 13y ago
browsing headlines is easy brain food - it is mind's sugar. No substance, just pure energy we crave. Even worse - it stealing the time we would use for deep thoughts. The devastation effect on human society will be recognized only decades later I afraid.
mahyarm 13y ago
Facebook & Twitter, it's the new TV.
prostoalex 13y ago
If we gave up phones in public, we could be as extroverted and public as two generations before us: https://scontent-a-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/1453418_673991312625787_1277325133_n.jpg https://scontent-a-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/1453418_673...

121 points by stevenleeg 13y ago

I really disagree with the sentiments here. Like many of you, I'm on the internet quite literally 14-16 out of every 24 hours, actively using it for about 13 of those. I've had a smartphone continuously since the palm treo 600 in 2003. But never once have I felt powerless against it. I have one simple rule: don't use it when I'm talking to people. (Unless we want to look something up on Wikipedia, in which case we do it together). This is enough. Maybe I just don't know what all you other people are doing with your phones that make them so irresistible, but I am able to move fluidly between online and offline action in the world with no second thought. If I get a notification, I take the phone out for a second to read it and put it right back away. Many times, the phone could be anything: If I have a magazine nearby instead, I read that. Or subway map. Or shampoo bottle. What's the real complaint here? I've seen articles like this 100 times and frankly none of them ever brings anything original to the table. I actually think this is because they derive their clickability through their vagueness. Everyone knows some jackass who brings his phone out during thanksgiving dinner with grandma, and everyone has almost run into someone who has been looking at their phone instead if the street. Is this really all you're complaining about? I'd call these minor inconveniences at best, rude behavior at worst. Predictably, In an effort to fill the void left by actual specific examples and details, these arguments/videos take on some sort of mystical "not enjoying the world" vibe. How do they make this leap so readily? It's easy to do because everyone loves to think the rest of the world is made up of zombies. But does it even logically follow?! That video he references has come up everywhere and seems to resonate with a lot of people. It seems to focus on the idea of savoring the moment, whatever that means. Our Galtian heroine can do it, no one else can. I see this woman as desperately and reactionarily clinging to a past that never existed, or at best an artisan-crafted inconvenience-sporting charming paradise. Let's get to specifics. Let's discuss specific times when we think it's not ok to talk on the phone -- at dinner, when walking on a crowded street, with grandma -- and let's give up on this high-blown pretentious rhetoric about connecting with the world and savoring the moment. It's frankly counterproductive--instead of discussing the new norms that always-connected technology dictates in specific detail, these articles have wandered into mystical, unrefutable territory that is usually the subject of religious belief, not pragmatic policy-setting.

chasing 13y ago
Excellent comment. There's a weird kind of "back in the idealistic days of yore" element to this. Texting during meals, for example, isn't something I regularly do. But. I can think of many situations where it's been important in solving a social problem. For example, if someone got lost en route and needs a little help. Or is running late and just wants to politely let you know to go ahead and order. To ignore those messages would be kind of an asshole move. Remember when not everyone carried mobile phones? Basic communication when people were out-and-about was wildly inconvenient if not completely impossible. Tons of time and energy got wasted doing basic tasks we now completely take for granted.

snide 13y ago

The easiest rule to follow: Never pull out your phone unless you politely excuse yourself from the people you are with. This will dramatically limit the amount of times you check, and on the off chance you really do need to check your phone, say a phone call, then it will be a politeness to those around you. Do this just one night and you'll feel embarrassed every time you need to check it.

voyou 13y ago
"Never pull out your phone unless you politely excuse yourself from the people you are with." Among people I know, that is the standard practice; it's not something I've ever heard anyone advocate, it's just what everyone does. I'm intrigued as to what context you (and, by the looks of the comments here, lots of other HN posters) are in where people just break off in the middle of social interactions to mess about with their phones. That's such a basic violation of (what I take to be) standard interpersonal norms I have trouble imagining anyone doing it.
- graeme 13y ago
  How old are you? I'm 28, and people my age and younger do this all the time. The younger they are, the less likely there is to be any apology.
  - aridiculous 13y ago
    I had a friend (not a close one, but good enough to arrange one-on-one meetings in NYC) repeatedly pull out his phone in the middle of conversations. Everything just stopped for a minute 4-5 times/hr. I then defriended him in real life. But then you also have the people who just scroll through Instagram or something similarly non-linguistic while you're in a conversation. They say they're listening but they "just do this naturally" or "I can do two things at once". Whether their phone use is blocking or non-blocking of our conversation, it's simply a gesture of disrespect if done more than once or twice. If you don't like my company enough to give full attention, or your other friend is in an emergency, just excuse yourself and leave. I think I'm going to start excusing myself when I find my friends are doing it.

seiji 13y ago

"Seeing Eye People" -- someone to guide you through the world while you text and walk crowded streets: http://improveverywhere.com/2013/04/30/seeing-eye-people/ http://improveverywhere.com/2013/04/30/seeing-eye-people/

mikecane 13y ago

Meanwhile, this photo has been spreading like wildfire on Twitter: https://twitter.com/johnmaeda/status/406759966712684544 https://twitter.com/johnmaeda/status/406759966712684544

chrismonsanto 13y ago
I don't know if you endorse the message behind that photo or not, but I've never taken someone out to dinner who busted out the newspaper while I was trying to talk to them.
- hobs 13y ago
  You beat me to the punch!
- vezzy-fnord 13y ago
  Indeed, plus it's a completely different social setting: public transport. Non sequitur all the way.
  - voyou 13y ago
    But do you often find people around you checking their phones while in the middle of doing something else? It seems to me that people mostly use smartphones to kill time, when they're not doing anything else; on public transport or while waiting for something, that is, just the sorts of times you'ld see people reading the newspaper.
- jdminhbg 13y ago
  On the other hand, nobody who's busted out a newspaper on a train was talking to friends or family on the other end of it.
- nly 13y ago
  This is such a great idea for a response though. If in the middle of a conversation, and someone whips out their iPhone on you, BOOM...broadsheet
- 13y ago

chimeracoder 13y ago

I'm really glad that this was written, and even more glad to see it getting some attention on HackerNews. By definition, most of us on this site live our lives by technology. Especially as engineers, it's easy to get caught up in thinking about the tools we use, how to use them better, how to use them faster, and how to use the more. Just as important, however, is the ability to step back and think about when we should be using these tools, and how. Technology is an incredibly powerful tool, but it's simply that. A violin is not music; it is simply a medium (literally) that a musician uses to create music. It's all too easy to confuse the technique with the goal.

vezzy-fnord 13y ago
I've been trying to say the same thing as the OP for a while now, but often when I do, I tend to get branded a "Luddite" or even get told to "stop reaping the benefits of technology". It's funny how you get called a Luddite by people who don't see anything past the shiny user interface.

dante9999 13y ago

Relevant http://9gag.com/gag/a9d1151?ref=t http://9gag.com/gag/a9d1151?ref=t

deleted 13y ago
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taylodl 13y ago

I'm an iPhone user and I use the Do Not Disturb feature so only calls from my immediate family will ring through. In the Notification Center I never configure applications to buzz the phone - instead I opt for the application icon to be badged when it has something for me. I think of it as making the phone work for me over my becoming a slave of the phone.

endianswap 13y ago
I understand the motivation behind this, but after doing the same thing I find myself checking my phone more because it no longer alerts me when there's something I might care about. Instead I check it much more frequently than I need to because I have no idea which little addiction icons will be lit up when I check each time.

rog-r 13y ago

Im at a birthday party right now... :-/

chrismonsanto 13y ago

I'm a bit extreme, but I don't own a smartphone, I never have owned a smartphone, and I never plan to own a smartphone. I already know what it will do to my brain, because I spend all day at my computer, and it's a constant struggle to not waste time on the Internet. (Most of my best work has been done on pen and paper while taking a walk.) Even when I'm not working, I like being disconnected. It gives me a chance to reflect on my life. Where I am, where I want to be. Ideas I have. I find it difficult to produce anything of value to myself or others when I am too busy consuming stuff through my screens. I think the worst part of smartphones are the cameras. I had an epiphany one day at some aquarium in NJ. The aquarium was mediocre, certainly nothing worth taking pictures of. But yet every group of people had to take videos of the fish, had to pose with the fish with their friends, etc (who knows why, those people will never view those videos ever). Of course all of this picture taking took so long that people got bored. Why not, they couldn't see the fish, after all. So of course, everyone got on their phones and goofed off, which made the crowds even MORE sluggish, which made the whole affair take longer, and which made the aquarium experience even more boring. I think that if phones were banned at the aquarium people would have gotten in and out more quickly, seen more fish, and had more fun. It's ironic that the smartphone--which is supposed to be whiz-bang-wow-entertainment-whenever-you-need-it--contributed heavily to making the aquarium experience boring for everyone. Sorry to ramble! This issue means a lot to me. For a funnier presentation of what I just said, check out Louis CK's standup (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zd2sRC3K9Hs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zd2sRC3K9Hs).

eliteraspberrie 13y ago
I don't own a smartphone either, and I don't normally carry a cellphone. I figure if everyone around me has one, I don't need one. The sad thing is when you meet new people and are expected to exchange phone numbers, it takes a little explaining to make sure they don't take "I don't have a phone" as "I couldn't come up with a more plausible excuse to never see you again."
- jafaku 13y ago
  I don't own a smartphone either, and in my work days (I don't work anymore) potential employers always thought I didn't know much about technology (or anything else for that matter), just because of this. They wanted people who used all the latest stupid "apps", and were connected to the matrix 24/7 through many different channels.

arthurgibson 13y ago

Ha, once Google Glass goes mainstream no one will be pulling out phones, they can stare blankly at you and read whatever they want. Seriously, there's a middle ground with everything, too much TV, on the laptop, playing video games. Individuals need to evaluate their own life and valuable interactions. At least the guy in the video made the hike instead of getting a virtual tour.

autonomy77 13y ago

Good article, but there seems to be a current trend towards being either a full-time tech-head or a neo-luddite who rejects technology. I'd argue it's possible to be both. I have to be (and actually rather enjoy) being 100% plugged in for my job - yet I also enjoy powering down all my tech and spending dedicated time with my family with no devices online. I think we sometimes forget that we're allowed to do them both - but sometimes the balance gets skewed. Plug in if you want to, but when you unplug, unplug completely. It's bliss.

dictum 13y ago

> Next time you’re in a restaurant with friends, have everyone put their phones stacked and face down in the center of the table. If anyone takes their phone off of the stack during the meal, they have to pay everyone else’s bill. It’s a fun way to make sure everyone is off their phone without seeming like an imposing ass. If what keeps people from checking their phone is the threat of having to foot an expensive bill, it's not so much a society of phone zombies, but a society of people with no self control.

endianswap 13y ago
With a term like zombies, it's implied that there's a shortage of self-control at play. The risk of paying the bill can be seen as simply a training exercise to build confidence in a non-phone experience. Baby steps!
graeme 13y ago
Do you have zero addictions? Are you a perfect, rational person that never does anything against their better judgment? If so, congratulations. As for myself, I have no problem avoiding sugar, bad foods, alcohol, lottery tickets, cigarettes, drugs. I have dodged all those bullets. But the internet has a hold on me. I want to use it less, but it's compelling. Some people don't have that, but they suffer other compulsions. Unless you have zero compulsions, I would not be so quick to judge others.
- dictum 13y ago
  I'm not judging other people. I think it's a crisis of self control for me as much as it is for other people. I'm still undecided on whether stuff is getting more addictive (http://www.paulgraham.com/addiction.html http://www.paulgraham.com/addiction.html), or we're losing our ability to control ourselves, or both.
  - graeme 13y ago
    I see, I misunderstood what you were getting at. I thought you were looking down on those with no self control.

arh68 13y ago

I stopped using my iPhone 4 a while ago. I've got a Nokia now. Things are mostly the same, though I was told my voice comes through much better now.

lttlrck 13y ago
It's great to hear your friends are happy with your purchase.

deleted 13y ago

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ryguytilidie 13y ago

Reminds me of the time my wife's mother was very sick with cancer and we were at dinner and her dad was texting her updates. One time we happened to be at dinner and he sent her some messages so they were texting back and forth for 2-3m. During this time, the older gentleman at the table next to us actually says excuse me, can you get off your phone? You kids always being on your phone is getting really old. Because, you know, at 31, I personally embody ALL kids. I guess maybe the moral of the story for me is that we would probably be happier people if we weren't fretting about a harmless thing people were doing and instead focused on our own happiness. Maybe instead of sitting there getting grumpy that a stranger was looking at a screen this guy could have just had a conversation with the person at his table? Maybe its time for people to stop throwing a fit about things other people are doing and maybe that would make us all a bit happier.

jamestanderson 13y ago
I think you and the article raise some good points. I guess I'm vain enough to think that when I take someone out to lunch I expect at least the majority of their attention. I won't fault them for replying to a text. But if you're browsing Twitter/Facebook/whatever while I'm trying to have a conversation with you, I'd naturally be annoyed as I think anyone would. Wouldn't you? I'm surprised that the older gentleman would say something, though.
- ryguytilidie 13y ago
  I agree with you but "if you're browsing Twitter/Facebook/whatever while I'm trying to have a conversation with you, I'd naturally be annoyed as I think anyone would" just isn't relevant to the situation at hand. One of my main problems with the article is that the author projects the "this person must just be browsing twitter/fb and getting ZERO VALUE FROM ANYTHING THEY ARE DOING AND MUST BE UNHAPPY". Why does the possibility of this even enter the authors mind, let alone turn into a certainty?
DanielBMarkham 13y ago
This is a terrible comment, and I want to explain why. It subtly changes the subject. It's not about what others think of your technology use. It's what you think about it yourself. The reason many of us feel moved by the article and the video isn't some need to tell others what to do, it's the recognition that we ourselves are missing out on important parts of life in some kind of weird attempt to become a TV reporter. So sure, for the .1% time that you're texting your sick wife with cancer and she's able to vicariously experience things, you are probably feeling pretty good about what you're doing. Now how about the other 99.9% of the time? Do you personally feel that all that tech use is in the interests of some greater good? If so, have fun with it. After watching my own habits, I am very doubtful that this is true. I see people all the time use tech in such a way that's directly opposed to their own best interests -- and they're smart enough to realize this, too. The problem isn't my judging them -- heck I don't care what people do -- it's that we're turning into a society that's spending significant time doing things that we don't want to do. They just give a bit of immediate gratification.

JonnieCache 13y ago

Author, if you're reading, kudos on the thin website. My eye muscles thank you. Anyway, this problem is easily solved: http://www.amazon.com/Nokia-Black-Unlocked-DualBand-Phone/dp/B0068ZAPB0/ref=sr_1_16?ie=UTF8&qid=1385831295&sr=8-16&keywords=nokia+1100 http://www.amazon.com/Nokia-Black-Unlocked-DualBand-Phone/dp...

stevenleeg 13y ago
Thanks :)! And yeah, I have a similar phone laying around that I've been thinking about trying. The battery life on those suckers is absolutely insane relative to smartphones!
- JonnieCache 13y ago
  Yeah I charge mine once every few weeks. It takes about 20 minutes. If it played MP3s from an SD card it would be perfect. Not having the maps is occasionally annoying. Aside from that it's great, there really is no good reason to have a web browser in your pocket that can outweigh the damage from having the internet creep into real life. But then I never really used any apps back when I had a smartphone anyway. Maybe the highly industrious networker types won't find it so simple.

MaxScheiber 13y ago

In my opinion, one of the most egregious examples of phone zombie-ism is the amount of people taking pictures on their phones / tablets when at some sort of famous monument or location. To quote (of all people) Maddox: > I kept staring at "my" picture, looking for some glimmer of justification for its existence, I thought that maybe I could show this to my friends as proof that I'd seen the portrait with my own eyes. But I'm not in this picture, so there's no proof I was ever there. Even if I was in the picture, it could have been photoshopped. And why would I need to prove it to anyone anyway? I used to do this when I was younger, but I've come to realize that: 1. A professional photo of a famous destination looks seriously better than an iPhone photo. 2. The only reason people take these photos is to get more likes on Facebook and Instagram. 3. Nobody actually cares. I've found myself enjoying a photoworthy location much more when my head is out of my phone and focused on the scene itself. This notion has served as inspiration for a recent project and venture I've been working on.

joezydeco 13y ago
I've been travelling around Europe ever since I met my (now) wife and she taught me a great tip: the cheap postcard you can buy at the newsstand or souvenir kiosk in any scenic town will be light-years better than anything you could take. Instead of fretting about getting the perfect picture, why not just relax and enjoy the view?

chatmasta 13y ago

If overconsumption of technology harms productivity of people, great! Less competition for me. As they say, "it's a dog eat dog world." While you're browsing Facebook, I'm advancing myself in the world. Good luck catching me.

gress 13y ago
Do you consider yourself to be a sociopath?
- coderdude 13y ago
  Are you one of those people who thinks they're a psychiatrist?
  - gress 13y ago
    Are you?
- onedev 13y ago
  Why impose your own made up version of "normal" on other people in a world where literally everything is made up and everything will cease to exist one day?
  - gress 13y ago
    Where did I impose anything on anyone?
- chatmasta 13y ago
  No. But I do see life as a race up whatever mountain(s) you choose to summit. Capitalism baby!
  - gress 13y ago
    Not all races involve being happy to see others in trouble.

blackhole 13y ago

To this day, I still don't own a smartphone. This will eventually change, because I need it for more practical things, like having a map and being able to search google for things while I'm on the road. But what completely boggles my mind is actually letting the phone buzz me for anything other than an actual phone call. Even when I'm at my desktop the only notifications I get are skype conversations, and sometimes I turn those off too. I think the problem isn't phones, it's notifications. We have become addicted to notifications on both phones and the desktop.

gress 13y ago
Ironically, I love the fact that I almost never receive unplanned phone calls anymore, and that when I want to talk to my friends, I can use video.

mcphilip 13y ago

Another component of a solution for this is giving parents better control over the time and energy kids are allowed to spend on their smartphone. As ADHD as I am as an adult, I wonder what the the effects an always on entertainment device would have had on my issues with distraction in my developmental years. Maybe this already exists, but ideally I'd like to have unrestricted voice, but limited non-voice (I.e app) usage settings per day on phones.

thenerdfiles 13y ago

Quot capita tot sensus.

deleted 13y ago

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matthew-wegner 13y ago

Oh, I don't know. I noticed this the other day, and I realized the root urge behind "phone zombie" is to connect with other people: Friends, news, the world at large. Mobile phones are the inevitable byproduct of humans being incredible social animals. (I try to minimize my own notifications and mobile phone usage, but to each their own).

stevenleeg 13y ago
Sure we're attempting to connect with other people, but I argue that it's degrading the quality of the connections we're supposed to be making in real life.

graeme 13y ago

There's one solution few people consider: don't get a data plan. The original iphone launch trained us that smartphones must have a data plan. You couldn't buy one without data. But now you can. I have an iphone with unlimited calls and texting, for $40 a month. I use wifi at home, but when I'm out and about I'm not connected. I've never had a single problem as a consequence. You might say "but....google maps!". I've found that without Google maps, I am forced to actually learn my way around. Within a day or two I know a new city better than most locals. My phone is much less distracting as a consequence.

nly 13y ago
Data is only going to get cheaper, and voice and SMS only plans are only going to get more scarce. Even without a data plan, prepaid in fact, 3 are 'only' charging $0.016 / MiB here in the UK. I remember when web hosts were charging rates that high. In another few years it's likely you won't even need to make the decision about whether you need or want a data plan or not. You'll just get data. At least I hope so.
- graeme 13y ago
  Perhaps I wasn't clear. I wasn't avoiding data because of cost. I don't WANT it. Many people want their phones less distracting, but they lack the willpower not to check their phones. But remove the data plan, and you don't need willpower to avoid checking it.
gurkendoktor 13y ago
I wish there were GPRS-only plans. They're everything I need for Threema/WhatsApp/FB Messenger/whatever - which saves my friends $$$ on texts. My advice as an "iPhone under-user" (often without data plan): Forevermap is an OSM-based offline map app, and is good enough in many countries. Definitely good enough to find your way home. Never install Facebook with the excuse of messaging. The Facebook Messenger app is much more focused. There's an iOS app that has a relatively recent dump of StackOverflow if you want to code on the train. I'm not sure if I want to recommend it as the UI is really sketchy, but it has helped me.

ipsin 13y ago

What shocks me, as a bicycle commuter, is the number of people who cradle their smartphones in front of them while they drive. It's selfish and dangerous as hell, and those who do it exhibit the same really obvious symptoms as those on foot. Lack of situational awareness, delayed response, and the poor decision-making that results from those.

dictum 13y ago
> people who cradle their smartphones in front of them while they drive I wonder how Steve Roberts (http://microship.com/bike/index.html http://microship.com/bike/index.html) feels about them.
baliex 13y ago
I realise the danger to others is much greater if a driver is using their smartphone but I've seen my fair share of cyclists using them too. And as a bicycle commuter myself, I know how insane that is.
- ipsin 13y ago
  I don't see that much around here, but that's probably because the roads are nuanced enough (read: cracked) to require your attention.
leokun 13y ago
> as a bicycle commuter Smartphone use in a vehicle is a problem, so I agree with the gist, but this part about you riding a bike is completely irrelevant to the point you made. But maybe you want some kind of cookie for being so respectful of the environment and conscientious enough to ride a bike on a regular basis. So I just wanted to take this moment and thank you for riding your bike. You're a good person. You should tell more people that you are a bicycle commuter so you can get more people to thank you for your service to the world.
- ipsin 13y ago
  I think that you are missing my point, because the bicycle is entirely relevant. I own a car. I drive it. A lot. You didn't need to know that. But in the situation I described, I feel quite vulnerable, because I'm not in a car, and because I'm not on the sidewalk. In other words, because I'm on a bicycle.

Eduard 13y ago

I am a big fan of the current phone zombie generation! It helps me a lot to recruit new users for my website. I usually start by asking them "Could you do me a favor and take a look at my website. I've not checked my site on your kind of mobile phone". Currently, I have a success rate of 80 percent of users taking a look at the website, and out of them, roughly 70 percent go to sign up with Facebook. Besides getting new users, I get invaluable insight into my users' behavior and expectations while peeking at their phones. Additionally, I can check out how my website works on different kinds of mobile phones, OSes and tablets. So I am really happy with so many phone zombies.

sendos 13y ago

I call the effect smartphones are having on us "Information Obesity" [1]. Just like when food was scarce and people ate as much as they could, and now that food is abundant many people can't limit themselves to sensible amounts, a similar thing happened with information. When information was scarce, we consumed as much as we could, and now that it is abundant many people can't limit themselves to sensible amounts, and keep checking their email, twitter, reddit, HN, etc, on their smartphones. Just as we learned to teach people who to deal with food abundance (and not successfully yet, unfortunately) we should one day start to teach people who to deal with information abundance [1] http://andrewoneverything.com/post/43839194291/information-obesity http://andrewoneverything.com/post/43839194291/information-o...

chasing 13y ago

This argument has been made over and over and over for years. I enjoy my mobile device. It's extremely useful in many situations. Although I admit that it's sometimes a distraction for me and other people. But here's the thing: Mindless people will be mindless. They'll find a way. Inconsiderate people will be inconsiderate. If they have an iPhone in their pocket, maybe they'll use that as the tool of their rudeness. But it's the person at the helm, not the device. The solution isn't the removal or banning of the technology, but the age-old solution of introducing social norms about what is and is not acceptable behavior. We do this all the time with new technologies and other social changes. If you start sending a text message while I'm talking to you, that's extremely rude and unless you preface the act with "excuse me, I just realized I left my child at home next to an open flame and I need to make sure the nanny put him out" then I'm going to treat you as if you just perpetrated some combination of farting and shouting a racial slur. But if there are a few of us having lunch and you excuse yourself to send a couple of text messages or make a quick call while the rest of us chatter on, who cares? Go for it. The same rules of politeness and thoughtfulness apply. They're not at all hard to figure out. And I think almost everybody has. Except for the few who, like I said above, are going to find some way to be mindless or inconsiderate regardless of what's in their pocket.

bdcravens 13y ago
If they have an iPhone in their pocket, maybe they'll use that as the tool of their rudeness. Huh. Good to know that those who carry non-iPhones are inherently more polite.
- pjscott 13y ago
  I'd call that a pretty radical reading of the text.
- kalleboo 13y ago
  You didn't read the comment at all, did you?
  - bdcravens 13y ago

DenisM 13y ago

Once again I recommend the book "shallows - what the Internet is doing to our brains" by Nicolas Carr. 20% of the book is a list of references to scientific studies, so the book is not just another fluff-opinion piece. If you can't bring yourself to read a book, you might have a serious problem already :)

wellboy 13y ago

I've thought about this a lot. I have found out that when I'm busy anyways with walking in the city, on the train etc. and I can't really take time for myself or just relax, with my phone I'm able to organize things or meeting with friends for activities later, so that when I really have time for myself with no one bothering me, I have organized everything already. So what the smartphone enables me to do is that I can use 30 seconds here and there during my day when I'm busy anyways, and have that time free in the evenings for instance. These 30 seconds that I use around 100 times during the day, then amount to an hour additional free hour at the end of the day.

jccalhoun 13y ago

" Next time you’re in a restaurant with friends, have everyone put their phones stacked and face down in the center of the table. If anyone takes their phone off of the stack during the meal, they have to pay everyone else’s bill. It’s a fun way to make sure everyone is off their phone without seeming like an imposing ass." The author's definition of "not seeming like an imposing ass" is very different than mine. If anyone I knew suggested that I would probably end up never wanting to go out with them ever again. Yeah, screw that. If you don't want me using my phone tell me. Don't play stupid games. Of course I'll probably tell you to fuck off and go to hell...

polarix 13y ago

Does it change for you once we remove all visible or audible indications of others' distraction? Perhaps we should just start to expect that we never have anyone's full attention. Indeed we never did.

yresnob 13y ago

Yeah .."feed us with useless information" alright..like this guy's own article...

yresnob 13y ago

Yeah .."feed us with useless information" alright..like this guy's own article...

cheeko1234 13y ago

I wonder how the author's going to feel when the Oculus Rift becomes mainstream. We will be getting lost "inside" technology. Is that necessarily a bad thing?

fpgaminer 13y ago

I chock this up to a growing conflict between the past and the future of our civilization. A past where the only place you could be was exactly where you were, whether you liked it or not. A future where you can be anywhere, do anything, with anyone. Take a minute, and imagine all the places you would rather be right now, and imagine you could have anyone there with you. That's what humans lust for; it's why we spend so much money on vacations to exotic locations, or to live in nicer neighborhoods; nicer homes. But for the greater part of our history it has been exactly that; costly and time consuming. In the future, virtual worlds will be indistinguishable from the real world, and so the choice between the two will be simple. Why sit in an ugly cubicle in a stuffy office when you can be on a beach doing your work? Why drive 50 miles to visit an old friend, when both of you can go to the top of Mount Everest in the blink of an eye? Are your kids safe at school? Of course they are, because they are not physically at school, while at the same time getting lessons from the best teachers around the world. It can be easy to imagine that world, and be horrified by it, because we fear that we will use it only for pleasure; never work. All those things experiences which will be common place in the future, are luxuries now. So they seem like pleasures, vacations. They will merely be commonplace, though; a normal part of your day. Have smart phones and the internet destroyed work ethic? Of course not. People always goofed off that much. Your grandfather didn't work harder than you; he probably just did more manual labor than our more service oriented job-o-sphere. As for the fear of technology disconnecting people, I call baloney. Perhaps it has long been forgotten now, but it used to be that you'd kiss your loved ones goodbye in the morning and then never hear from them again until it was evening. Sometimes your significant other didn't show up. Stuck at work? Decided to hang out with friends? Mugged on the streets? Who knows! Then came along the telephone. Now you can stay in touch with those you care about, whenever you want. I don't call that technology destroying humanity. That's technology doing the most beautiful thing it can do; connect us. Back to what I was getting at about the past and future colliding. If we're ultimately headed into a future where we spend most of our lives living in the virtual/augmented, then what we see today is that awkward in-between phase. Because of the limitations of today, our exotic virtual worlds are crude websites like Hacker News, Twitter, Reddit, etc. But they are virtual worlds. They're little vacations we can go on. We get to meet new people, read new stories, experience new things. It's primitive. But it's already powerful. We forget so easily, because of the crudeness of the technology, that when we're online we are interacting with other live human beings. The only difference between that and the real world is that it isn't triggering our primal sense of reality. That will change. When I'm walking down the street, I see an ugly suburban landscape. I don't want to be there. I want to be on the exotic, tropical island called Hacker News reading about the success or failure of someone's dream, and maybe chat with them about it. That's beautiful to me. And thanks to modern technology I can choose to do that. A decade ago, I couldn't. I would have been stuck, staring at the cold concrete under my feet, awkwardly making conversation with someone I have nothing in common with. In other words, the author of the article talks about experiencing the world around you. But that speaks to old notions about what is around us. A hundred years ago, the world around us was limited to what was physically, gravitationally around us. Today, the world around us includes that which our smart phones allow us to see. We can experience not just our local space, but the lives of those halfway around the world. I say, don't isolate yourself, pick up the phone and experience the world around you. Now, I preach on this a bit because I don't see many people doing it. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate articles like Mr. Gattuso's, and I'll explain why in a moment. But I hardly ever see views like the one I expressed, written about. I believe it is because we're in such an awkward in-between right now. And it's hard to notice just how much good technology has done, especially if you demonize it. We don't question our ability to call our loved ones and let them know that we'll be a few hours late that night. It has become so much a part of the human experience, that when we demonize technology, we ignore how much we'll truly lose if we "put down the phone." Again, I do appreciate Mr. Gattuso's article greatly and all others like it. It's a reminder to us all that we need to be careful and adapt. Yes, the powerful new ability to be anywhere, and do anything, with anyone, will cause problems for a large group of people. Just like gambling is a problem for a lot of people. But this has always been the case. Everyone uses something to escape from where they should be. Books, TV, daydreaming, etc. It takes real effort to live a healthy and happy life; it never was easy. Personally, being an introvert, I'm all too familiar with how much effort it can take to have a healthy social life. Is ever advancing technology going to make it easier to be unhealthy and unhappy? Yes! Of course! Just like alcohol can be used responsibly to relax, and used irresponsibly to destroy lives. Smartphones too are a double-edged sword. But on the whole, my opinion is that technologies like these will not introduce problems that did not already exist. And the benefits they will provide, to connect us in ways we've never experience before in mankind's history, will provide such a tremendous wealth to our civilization we must not stop it. TL;DR: Put down your smartphone when you are where you want/should be. Pick it up, when you want to be somewhere else. How is that evil?

Tycho 13y ago

Smartphones are great but damned if I'll ever accept a company-email-enabled device. I think corporations are making a mistake by handing blackberrys out to everyone. You want to give your staff time and space to think about the big picture and the big problems, not constantly being monopolized by trivial emails in their quiet moments.

andor 13y ago

It's addictive behaviour. If you're ahem rather active on HN, you might be interested in the book "The Fix" by Damian Thompson.

brownbat 13y ago

This doesn't have to be all or nothing, you can use mobile devices to supplement social interaction. At some of our dinners, conversation will flow, and people will wonder about some fact, one of us will find it on wikipedia, conversation will ebb, and someone will check a feed for an interesting recent story to add to the discussion. We used to have petty bar arguments, but now we're all able to quickly identify what's simply a research question, and we get far less invested. We now have debates or probing discussions about issues and values that are deeper and more personal than "who was that guy in that movie from the 80s." I'd avoid guidance that tells you to always set some technology aside in some situations, and instead ask, "How can I use this tool to make what I'm doing better?" Just keep in mind that you're involved in a group project, and the goal is increasing the total group's enjoyment, not solely increasing your personal enjoyment. If you get that, then setting tech aside isn't necessary. If you don't get that, then setting tech aside isn't sufficient.

rusabd 13y ago

browsing headlines is easy brain food - it is mind's sugar. No substance, just pure energy we crave. Even worse - it stealing the time we would use for deep thoughts. The devastation effect on human society will be recognized only decades later I afraid.

mahyarm 13y ago

Facebook & Twitter, it's the new TV.

prostoalex 13y ago

If we gave up phones in public, we could be as extroverted and public as two generations before us: https://scontent-a-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/1453418_673991312625787_1277325133_n.jpg https://scontent-a-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/1453418_673...