9 ms·

Microsoft's dystopian pitch for remote work

227 points by ph0rque 13y ago

jmduke 13y ago
Hypothetical: I get a call from my boss's boss at 7pm asking if I can create a weekly metrics spreadsheet for him for the meeting tomorrow. Because I'm a go-getter and want to help him out, I have three options: 1. Wake up crazy early the next morning and head into the office early. 2. Cancel my evening plans and drive back to the office tonight. 3. Pop open my laptop while waiting for the next round of beers at Von Trapp's and get it done. David's arguing that the third option is the least conducive to work-life balance. That's cool, but I'd rather have the ability to edit that Excel spreadsheet during happy hour than have to shift my plans around to do it some other time. (And it sits uneasy with me that 37signals has a book about remote work out and also makes linkbaity, low-content posts like these which blur the line between "signal" and marketing fluff.)
- fragmede 13y ago
  4. Tell your boss's boss to go stuff themselves.
  - hyperbovine 13y ago
    5. Do not answer phone.
    - bsg75 13y ago
      This. Making yourself overly available trains those who would call upon you at unreasonable intervals to use your availability as a crutch. "Plan ahead? Why? I can always call Bob!"
    - slantyyz 13y ago
      I'd also add: Unless you're in a position where you're on-call, don't check your work e-mail when you're 'off duty'.
  - jeremyjh 13y ago
    Actually there are two steps here: 4 a. Acquire FU money. b. Tell your boss's boss to go stuff themselves.
    - potatolicious 13y ago
      You don't need FU money to tell people to go stuff themselves, you just have to have a skill set that's in high demand and a good reputation.
      - deleted 13y ago
        [deleted]
      - bowlofpetunias 13y ago
        Actually, you mostly need a) balls and b) the verbal skills to tell people to go stuff themselves without being directly insulting. You would be surprised how few people lose their jobs by saying "no".
        potatolicious 13y ago
        This is very true. It's a truly dysfunctional environment where someone gets fired for not willing to work un-negotiated overtime. In either way though, there is a huge advantage to having choice - and being able to walk away from a job if push comes to shove. It affects the way you carry yourself, and it dramatically alters the dynamic between you and your employer. The knowledge that, if things really got bad, if your boss turned out to be a giant asshole, you could walk away and be at another job in a week's time, is a tremendous psychological aid when it comes to pushing back and negotiating.
- bentcorner 13y ago
  In this hypothetical situation, if your boss is calling you at 7PM the day before a meeting, you've already lost. Either your boss should have had the good graces to give you a better heads up, or s/he is going to have to be a big boy, suck it up and either do it themselves or go without for the meeting because you're off the clock.
  - Spooky23 13y ago
    Good luck with this attitude in the real world unless you're a unionized hourly worker. In the real world, you're an at-will, exempt employee. So unless you're so special that you have the ability to tell your boss to f-off without worrying about the consequences, you're going to be updating that spreadsheet.
    - acjohnson55 13y ago
      You don't have to be special. You just have to have a skillset and knowledge base that's difficult enough to replace that people treat you with a modicum of respect. If the place isn't burning to the ground, I don't think it's unreasonable to push back.
      - mcguire 13y ago
        "a skillset and knowledge base that's difficult enough to replace" That would be the definition of special.
        acjohnson55 13y ago
        I guess it depends on how low your bar for calling something "special" is. I would put on two different levels someone who truly has a "special" skillset vs. someone who is simply very effective and in whom the company has a sunk investment.
    - pyrocat 13y ago
      Or don't give your boss your cell phone number?
- MBlume 13y ago
  You missed an option. Maintain your work-life boundaries, tell your boss's boss you're sorry, but you have plans, and that he'll have a better chance of getting things like that from you with more lead time. I'm pretty sure David's arguing we should do that. ETA: Actually I really think the idea of "work-life boundaries" is a useful framing to have alongside "work-life balance"
  - RBerenguel 13y ago
    There's another missing option, which is your boss makes you get it done whatever the cost and your boss is the one telling his boss next time do things with time (like in R. Hamming's You and Your Research talk)
    - deleted 13y ago
      [deleted]
  - untog 13y ago
    tell your boss's boss you're sorry, but you have plans, and that he'll have a better chance of getting things like that from you with more lead time. Well, I think the actual answer here is that your boss doesn't ask you to do things like this in the first place. When he or she asks you to you're going to be hard-pressed to say no.
    - MBlume 13y ago
      That depends entirely on your confidence in your job security/your ability to find another job.
  - eholder 13y ago
    So what has that got to do with the advertising campaign and calling it a shame and dystopian? Technology is an enabler. If you want to work, the advertised technology enables you to work. If you don't want to work, the technology does not hold a knife to your throat and force you to work. This is coming from someone who refuses to take a smartphone from work because it raises expectations about answering phone calls and emails over evenings and holidays. I do appreciate VPN though, because it means I can leave early on Friday evening if I have something fun to do, and catch up on the work on Sunday night. And that's why DHH argument comes across as so silly, because it is dystopian not to allow technology that allows me to time shift my work. By DHH's same metric, the following are dystopian because they enable you to work outside your office: Remote desktop, VPN, Google Apps, SaaS offerings, web based tools, smartphones with work email. Google even has a similar pitch for their Google apps: >Need to attend a meeting from your kid’s soccer game? >Access your work from any device with a web browser – your computer, phone or tablet – and stay productive even when you’re away from the office >Google Apps makes it easy to stay connected to projects you’re working on and the people you work with, no matter where you are or what device you’re using.
- icecreampain 13y ago
  > also makes linkbaity, low-content posts You were expecting otherwise from a company? Whenever there's money to be made, expect that someone will try.
  - iaskwhy 13y ago
    Well, I'm pretty sure selling books is not their biggest slice of revenue. In situations like this I prefer to think of the post as coming from the author of a book which might give him some additional knowledge points on the issue at hand. David surely is one of the main advocates of remote work. In my opinion, this one it not linkbaity but insightful.
- bronbron 13y ago
  DHH's arguing that you're missing the very important 4th option here: 4) "Sorry, I'm busy with other things tonight."
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
    - PeterisP 13y ago
      It has everything to do with the advertising campaign! The technology itself, as you say, is an enabler and is neutral. This advertising campaign, on the other hand, is not really advertising the technology but some [IMHO wrong/immoral] argument about how lifestyle & responsibilities should be handled.
    - bronbron 13y ago
      > If you want to work, the advertised technology enables you to work You want to work at your kid's soccer game? During a date? During happy hour? If the campaign was, "Work from home easily one day a week" this blog post wouldn't exist. The debate here has nothing to do with remote work as a concept. Many people have a problem with work-life balance and it's insensitive at best and dystopian at worst for Microsoft to basically say, "Hey, why aren't you working while your date's in the bathroom?"
- cousin_it 13y ago
  The problem is that if your boss knows that option is available, he'll use it more. That may not affect you but it affects the marginal case, where the only thing stopping the boss from overloading the worker is the fixed working hours. All change happens at the marginal case.
- runako 13y ago
  Look at the pictures in the post. Both pictures show a person working while actively ignoring the person they are with. Missing a goal at your kid's soccer game? Pretending to pay attention to your date while working under the table? I think that's what David is addressing.
  - romanovcode 13y ago
    I think no matter what MS will do David won't be happy. Example: MS creates online-powered tools: David is not happy because it means MS is advocating ignoring everything around you while working. MS does not create online-powered tools: David is not happy because MS does not create online-powered tools like, for example, google does.
    - Apocryphon 13y ago
      It's not the product, it's the pitch.
      - eholder 13y ago
        As I noted in another comment[1], Google's pitch is this: >For your business, this means every employee and everyone you work with can be productive from anywhere, using any device with an Internet connection. >Free your team from cubicles >Access your work from any device with a web browser – your computer, phone or tablet – and stay productive even when you’re away from the office. >Need to attend a meeting from your kid’s soccer game? [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6740512 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6740512
        Apocryphon 13y ago
        The ads with the silhouettes are a lot more in-your-face about fostering a lack of work/life balance, though. I wouldn't characterize it dystopian so much as it is tone-deaf, out-of-touch, and heavy-handed. Which is par for the course for Microsoft marketing. To me, it's less egregiously disagreeable than it is benignly mediocre. Oh MS, you're so corporate.
- greenyoda 13y ago
  "I'd rather have the ability to edit that Excel spreadsheet during happy hour than have to shift my plans around to do it some other time." And if this becomes a trend and lots of people start popping open their laptops at happy hours (go-getters probably tend to hang out with other go-getters), happy hours won't be very happy anymore.
- forgotAgain 13y ago
  I think his argument is that Microsoft is enabling actions such as your bosses while selling it as a boon to you. There are times when things "have" to get done but this sales pitch isn't about that. This pitch is about blending work and personal life to such a point as to there being indistinguishable. That makes for a very crappy life for the worker.
- nathantotten 13y ago
  I feel like your hypothetical boss in this hypothetical situation is not very organized as he didn't think about the weekly metrics spreadsheet until 7pm the night before it is due. It might be time to change hypothetical teams.
- corresation 13y ago
  DHH has some interesting observations on remote work, putting his money very much where his mouth is (which immediately differentiates his actions on this from mere opinion of others). It is not surprising that he comments on things related to a discussion that he has long been involved with. If something comes up in the security industry, I expect Schneier to comment on it. If remote work comes up, DHH will likely chime in. Either may or may not get voted up on HN if it promotes discussion.
- g123g 13y ago
  I would reply with the following famous quote- Your lack of planning is not my emergency
  - mikevm 13y ago
    No you won't. I bet that most of the hotshots in this thread that say they will tell their boss to go fuck himself will actually do the work and shut their mouths.
- g123g 13y ago
  I will reply with the following famous quote - Your lack of planning is not my emergency
  - chrisbennet 13y ago
    The way I've heard it is: "A lack of planning on your part, does not constitute and emergency my part."
  - jamesbritt 13y ago
    I keep seeing this or similar comments. A reply like this would almost certainly equate for many people to quitting their job on the spot. I'm puzzled why so many people think everyone has this luxury. There have been many times in my life where I've had bosses make shitty unfair demands, and while I would have loved to stick it to The Man and thrown off my proletarian chains the reality was I needed the damn job to pay my bills and quitting on the spot was not a sensible option. These sorts of discussions remind me of times I've hung out with guys who've witness some sort of verbal altercation, with somebody then insisting that if anyone every spoke to them that way they would kick his ass into next week. But we all knew how easy it was to talk like a tough guy when it wasn't your ass on the line. Yes, if your boss is an asshole then you need to figure out how to get to a better situation. But telling people to take a hike is not everyone's best career move, and having the option to make a bad situation a bit less onerous is a good thing.
- PeterisP 13y ago
  The problem is with the whole concept of a need for 'weekly' metrics spreadsheet suddenly appearing in 7pm. There are various options for fixing this problem: 1. Assigning and scheduling someone to do them weekly on the day before that meeting within business hours. 2. Implementing automation for the weekly metrics spreadsheets, to be stored or emailed at the scheduled time. 3. Othwerwise, accepting the fact that you won't have all the ponies you want by arbitrary deadlines. By the way, this is a choice for the boss to make, not you. And none of these options involve doing something at 7pm.
- adeaver 13y ago
  Like others have said, if your boss is calling you at 7PM to do a worksheet for a meeting the next day, one he has likely know about for a while, then worrying about your work/life balance is the least of your problems. As it's not so much the occasional 'Crap, we need X stat!' that is a problem, it's the constant assumption that your boss can call on you any time and _expect_ you will comply. That's just a shitty boss. Regardless of their title.
- metaphorm 13y ago
  how about you have some self respect and let your boss know that that request crosses a line.
- flurdy 13y ago
  Option 4: Say no. TPS reports can wait
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- e12e 13y ago
  Setting aside the fact that if you've got metrics that can be compiled into a spreadsheet, you should probably also have a system to do that automagically -- how about option 5) Remind your boss to call someone in a different time-zone? Side note: Not sure if they still do it, but the IT team for Norwegian "local" airline Wideroe, used to rent some offices in Thailand, and have employees work 6 months from there (with families) -- in order to provide 24 hour support provided by the same team that did the rest of the work.
- mpclark 13y ago
  Do people really do this? Maybe I'm a bad boss, but I wouldn't dream of calling staff out of hours for stuff like this...
  - mark-r 13y ago
    There are bosses who will do this just so they can have some sense of power over you, never mind whether they actually need the results or not. Pray you never have one of those.
- mcguire 13y ago
  Hypothetical 2: You get a call from your boss at 7pm for the third time this week and the seventh time this month. Because you would like to keep your job, you have three options: 1. Cancel your evening plans and get the work completed. 2. Pop open your laptop, skip the second act of La traviata, and kind of get something that sort of looks correct done in the lobby. 3. Tell your boss that you'll be happy to get it done with sufficient lead time, but cannot do so this time. Then, skip the second act while you polish up your resume.
  - pgeorgi 13y ago
    4. Not bring that stupid cell phone to the opera house in the first place
- otikik 13y ago
  > I'm a go-getter and want to help him out It's language trap. Go-getter is just a tag. It sounds nice, but in your context it just means "I'm ok with altering my personal life when my boss asks". Here are some more options if you are not a 'go-getter': 4. Ask your boss to delay the meeting so you have enough time to do the spreadsheet in your own time. 5. Ask your boss if the spreadsheet is absolutely necessary for the meeting. Given that there was no time to have the "proper" document done, would it be possible to have a "high-level" version only? Maybe I can send the complete spreadsheet after the meeting via email? 6. The last-resort option would be proposing compensation with free time. "I will arrive early and do the spreadsheet early, but I will leave after lunch / will not come to work on friday". Make sure that you earn personal hours here: if you arrive 1 hour earlier, you should leave 2 hours earlier. Don't accept more money for that overtime. In addition to those two options, start telling your boss (softly) that having you prepare a spreadsheet manually every week is not very productive. Propose spending some time automating the process so at least it takes 15 minutes instead of several hours.
- kunai 13y ago
  While David's constant MS-bashing makes me weary to his writing most of the time, in this case, he's absolutely correct to call Microsoft out on this advertising. People using their electronic devices and ignoring people with them is already a large problem and is sucking the humanity out of humanity. Encouraging this sort of behavior is deplorable, but obviously Microsoft has got to sell a product and this sort of stuff appeals to management. Your scenario assumes that you're going to a bar, working while attaching no significance to anyone else in the process. These ads actively encourage ignoring your partner on a date or your kid at a game to get work done. Call me old-fashioned, but that picture simply isn't correct.
- skue 13y ago
  > David's arguing that the third option is the least conducive to work-life balance. Where does David say this, and why do we consistently upvote arguments to the extreme at HN? DHH is simply saying that encouraging people to work during their free time is a bad thing, and remote access doesn't magically make it okay. Since you offered an example, let me give you another. I have a good friend who came down with the flu early last week (not "flu" as in cold, but the full-fledged flu). All she wanted to do was rest, but because she can work from home her boss insisted she pull 10 hour days while in bed with a fever. They would never have wanted her in the office in that condition, but somehow remote work made it okay. She's still not healthy and hoping to sleep through the weekend to recover.
- leemuro 13y ago
  Apparently whoever made this at MS did so on their phone during happy hour because its some of the worst marketing I've ever seen.
- gress 13y ago
  If you're a 'Go-Getter', you've probably already recognized that your boss's lack of planning will impede your fast-track career. How are you planning to unseat him or find a new boss who can help fulfill your ambitions?
- ptbello 13y ago
  The point is that it's not ok for your boss to call for work at 7pm. It isn't. Increasing your efficiency in responding to that call is a step in the wrong direction. Plus the images show someone actively ignoring the person they are with to do work on the side, which also isn't ok in my book.
  - mikeash 13y ago
    There's nothing wrong with increasing your efficiency in responding to that call. We need to distinguish between the technological and the social. Increasing your ability to work in more times and more places is great! It means that if you really need it, you can use it instead of just being screwed. Socially, we need to realize that this incredible ability needs to only be used when truly necessary. Dumbing down the technology to not support it is not the answer.
- alan_cx 13y ago
  Unless I'm paid to be available, I'm not taking the call. Businesses buys your time according to the contracted deal; a set amount of time, to do a certain task(s), in exchange for money. Now, no business I know of gives out free money, even if you ask. So, why on earth would any one give them extra time on a task for no money? Try it. Go ask your boss for some money for doing nothing. In fact, phone late at night and ask...
- lignuist 13y ago
  4. Don't answer the phone at 7pm when you see it's your boss.
- netghost 13y ago
  You could also say no, but Von Trapp's is a damn good option too unless you get a bocce ball through the screen ;)
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
- aw3c2 13y ago
  OP is abusing HN for affiliate spam. Referer-free link (no endorsement, just battling an [censored]): http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00CO8D3G4 http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00CO8D3G4
jezebel6 13y ago
microsoft's 'get it done' ad campaign reads more like a parody of bad marketing than anything else. The SNL skit almost writes itself.
columbo 13y ago
I struggle with calling this dystopian, even though I partially agree. I think it's great that we push work-life balance, and I believe we should disconnect but I can see where these advertisements might be comforting to some. Back in the 70's my dad worked in an office and wasn't home until 7:30. He only made it to a handful of sporting events and school events. If you asked him, in the 70's, would he prefer to be in the office making that phone call or be sitting at <insert kid's> <insert event> he would choose the latter without hesitation. For a more recent example, my sister is in sales and will get phone calls any hour of the day. For her, being able to go out and do things with the occasional 5 minute interruption is an absolute game-changer. Not just answer phone calls, but to bring up the customer information and maybe write a quick email.
- beachstartup 13y ago
  i agree, and i'm not sure this "pitch" can be really pinned on microsoft (alone), the entire tech ecosystem of the 00's made it happen, starting with blackberry, then apple, the wireless carriers, etc. it's a larger cultural/technology shift.
  - pyrocat 13y ago
    Why are you trying so hard to be an apologist for a shitty advertising campaign?
- pyrocat 13y ago
  Those are examples of terrible work life balance that would become only slightly less terrible with Office 365's version of the future. Meanwhile, Microsoft is promoting that slightly less terrible future as a Good Thing™.
consultant23522 13y ago
For the millionth time. If you're going to tell me you don't trust me to work from home you'd better not be pushing to outsource to India. I mean how can you trust someone on the other side of the planet but you can't trust me 10 miles away?
- dariot 13y ago
  I think it's because programmers in India cost less than you. It's easier to trust someone that cost less - if they screw up you've lost considerably less money.
grandalf 13y ago
Of all the things in the world to get indignant about this poster ranks pretty low in my opinion.
bagosm 13y ago
First of all remote work is not only for the employee. The startup community should know better that working can also include monitoring, getting up to date on things, and even meetings. Having a coworker that lives across the globe and needs a quick line edit help shouldn't punish you by means of staying at home OR him to a strict off-hours schedule. That's all part of the work from home culture and tools.
bjourne 13y ago
Obviously it is some kind of ironic marketing campaign. The full pr is here: http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/news/press/2013/nov13/11-06getitdone.aspx http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/news/press/2013/nov13/11-06ge... I don't get it because I'm picturing people that are working 8h in the office and then working during the night thanks to Office 365.
- 0x0 13y ago
  The best part is the illustration of the person having completely passed out in bed, still clinging on to the tablet. Wow, that's sad.
- sp332 13y ago
  I thought the posters were a joke at first, but I think the point is that people already do this. The posters aren't saying "now you can work from bed!" It's saying: you already work from bed, let me help you with that.
pfraze 13y ago
Those images are comically off-putting. The father looks like he's missing his son score a goal because he's on his cell. The guy in happy hour looks like he's awkwardly suffering boredom.
pionar 13y ago
It's interesting, DHH has a book to pitch, and he has all these link-baiting, low quality posts that automatically get upvoted because it's DHH. And surprise, they're all about how working remotely is the best situation for everyone. It's not. Just like every other working style/paradigm, it works for some, not for others.
- gress 13y ago
  How is this post about working remotely being the best situation for everyone? How is it linkbait?
  - curiousDog 13y ago
    It is. Because he's just over analyzing a bunch of ads. And picking on Microsoft is bound to draw the usual startup hate crowd. The ads just showcase the fact that you can access your work files online anywhere, which was previously unheard of anywhere. Twisting that and putting on dystopian airs is just link baiting
    - gress 13y ago
      Firstly, accessing your work files anywhere has long been enabled by Dropbox, Google Docs, and iCloud, so there's nothing that was previously unheard of. Secondly, the complaint is that Microsoft is celebrating people being distracted from family events by the demands of work. I think that's a valid complaint and not something to be encouraged.
      - curiousDog 13y ago
        I'm talking about Enterprises (fortune companies), that've been tied to IBM or Microsoft, access to files everywhere is new. And google apps for enterprises doesn't preceed o365 by that much
        gress 13y ago
        Fair enough. I guess you agree with the other point then.
veritas20 13y ago
I think some are missing the major point. If you are working from every where there is no "life" in the "work-life" balance message that they are trying to convey. "Work anywhere", yes. "Work-life balance", no.
csmuk 13y ago
As someone who just threw his smartphone out of a car this morning due to the stresses of having to work before my contracted hours, they can fuck off. Waking up to work and going to sleep with work - not for me. Apologies for the language.
- grecy 13y ago
  > Apologies for the language. None needed. Certain words exist to convey a very strong sense of emotion. The topic you're talking about is obviously one of those. IMO, you used the word perfectly, and I hope you did it to their faces too :) (They've been doing the same to me this week)
  - csmuk 13y ago
    They did indeed get it to the face (well by email). Thou who hire third parties to validate our dev process (which is a fucking shambles) and take advice from said third party, despite us crowing the same message for 6 fucking years, will recieveth face full of nasty language.
- untog 13y ago
  Quit your job then. There are plenty of better situations out there, if you tolerate it then you're helping no-one - and definitely not yourself.
  - csmuk 13y ago
    Not that easy when you have to work from home due to a disabled child and wife and don't get any help from the state. Working on my own business as an exit plan.
    - deleted 13y ago
      [deleted]
      - csmuk 13y ago
azernik 13y ago
Eh, there are also less dystopian versions of this ad. Like the one where someone works on a presentation on the train while going to a customer meeting - more about squeezing out the completely wasted hours than about working during the really rewarding parts of your life.
LVB 13y ago
I was ready to post some counterpoints, but that was before I clicked on the link to the full Microsoft ad. The images are truly awful. An example promoting that during my lunch, while walking in a national park, I should participate in meetings is ridiculous. A guy collapsed in bed clinging to his tablet that's pulsing with new work? Right.
- HillRat 13y ago
  Also, just try getting a decent cell signal on the rim of the Grand Canyon. And the wi-fi options in national parks are decidedly subpar. The fact that I know this saddens me greatly.
  - bcbrown 13y ago
    The wi-fi options in national parks is fantastic. There isn't any. That's the way it should be.
philwelch 13y ago
Microsoft is an enterprise software company and these advertisements are targeted to the bosses who bully people into working nights and weekends from home/bed/the bar/ their kid's soccer game, not to the people who are actually working nights and weekends. The fact that they've gone for brutal realism, if anything, just goes to show they're accepting this fact rather than pretending they are in the business of bringing joy to people's lives.
wmeredith 13y ago
Microsoft has this weird knack for anti-marketing. They did this shit, too, with Windows phone. The launch campaign was basically a bunch of ads saying that using your phone was bad.
- underwater 13y ago
  Ironically these ads have the complete opposite message than the original Windows Phone ads.
  - Pxtl 13y ago
    "Abortions for all!" "Boo!" "Very well, no abortions for anyone." "Boo!"
- res0nat0r 13y ago
  These ads are just fine for the product, which allows you to work anywhere, and is what they are touting. The only reason they are being hated on right now is because it is Microsoft, and around here Microsoft Is Evil.
  - gress 13y ago
    No. They are being criticized because they are trying to persuade that it's good for bosses to demand that people work instead of paying attention to their families in order to sell tools that allow people to work anywhere to corporations.
    - res0nat0r 13y ago
      Why aren't we outraged at Dropbox for letting you have access to your work documents at home so that you can work late into the night? Or Google so I can work on that spreadsheet during dinner and until late in the morning? All companies that push cloud based easily accessible products will tout how you can work / play whenever / however you want thanks to their new tech. This is just faux outrage because it is Microsoft.
ChuckMcM 13y ago
So it is, as with most things, complicated. Yes, having to work during your kid's soccer game is not great, but having the option makes some things possible. Clearly there are toxic work situations where "the boss" is always demanding more than is possible and requiring a lot of free "overtime" to get it done. And this technology is an enabler for that type of supervisor, but it isn't the cause of their mismanagement. Bad bosses are bad, they ask you stay late all the time, they ask you to come in and work weekends for this "sprint" they put a spin on it that it is good for the company but at the end of the day they are just trying to maximize productivity at the expense of their employee's work/life balance. But there are also things that come up, they come up in random time zones far away and sometimes they need you to work at odd hours. At those times, when it is an exception that you're going to be working at an odd time and unexpectedly, it can be convenient that you can do that work on what you have with you (your phone or tablet) than feeling the need to carry around a larger amount of stuff 'just in case.' That said, I don't know here Microsoft gets their ad agencies but this one and some of the ones poking at Apple are probably not the best way to express their intent. And sometimes a bad advertising pitch is identified by how easily it can be used against the company that funded it. The rest seems to be 37signals taking advantage of a wonderful "straight line" as comedians would say, and spinning it to their advantage.
eholder 13y ago
Isn't that the pitch of everything from Remote desktop to VPN? From http://www.google.com/enterprise/apps/business/benefits.html http://www.google.com/enterprise/apps/business/benefits.html >For your business, this means every employee and everyone you work with can be productive from anywhere, using any device with an Internet connection. >Free your team from cubicles >Access your work from any device with a web browser – your computer, phone or tablet – and stay productive even when you’re away from the office. >Need to attend a meeting from your kid’s soccer game? Edit a spreadsheet while at the airport waiting for a flight? Respond to an email from a hotel business center computer? Google Apps makes it easy to stay connected to projects you’re working on and the people you work with, no matter where you are or what device you’re using. Putting Microsoft and dystopian into the headline does get a lot more clicks, upvotes and outrage though.
- ry0ohki 13y ago
  Or really even what 37signals own features are implying: "It’s just the right amount of Basecamp when you’re on-the-go." https://basecamp.com/mobile https://basecamp.com/mobile
wil421 13y ago
I get work done during work hours. #GetItDoneAtWork
andyl 13y ago
Create an enemy. Great marketing DHH.
SubuSS 13y ago
So everyone supporting this, don't you have on calls in your team? (assuming you work on a live product). Don't you have subject matter expertise split enough that you might be needed when your component conks? Don't you have aggressive targets that your whole team is rushing towards once in a while? It might be a systemic issue. It might also just be an one off situation. You should fight back if the boss is just being lazy / incompetent, but most of the situations I have seen have been way too deep for the boss / current oncall to handle. You just suck it up and get to work - that's all. The onus is on you to equip your boss to handle it himself. As always different shades - there are many cases where a set timetable isn't an option. In those cases, I welcome such tools that give me the option to work from anywhere rather than forcing me to drive back to office.
douglee650 13y ago
classic FUD. look it up, whippersnappers.
deleted 13y ago
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ffrryuu 13y ago
Microsoft is a toxic workplace.
gress 13y ago
Perhaps they should rebrand it, "Office Eternity".
gordaco 13y ago
So, the idea is making remote work so unappealing that employees reject it actively?
martin1b 13y ago
For a second there, I thought DHH turned over a new leaf and wasn't going to drop the f-bomb in a post... wrongo... That said, I agree fully with his thoughts from an employee perspective. However, MSFT is trying to appeal decision makers who write the check for their software, not the employees.
russell 13y ago
I find the image of the woman typing away at her computer while her date, boyfriend, husband, coworker even sits attentive to her, to be appallingly rude. Now I am much older than nearly all of you and I grew up when the only electronic distraction was a portable radio. I remember being at a restaurant with a date. She told me that she liked being with me because I paid attention to her and ignored all the people around us. My partner and I have been together for 12 years, but I still pay attention to her like it was out first date.
lotso 13y ago
Incredible low-content article for how many points it has. Terrible linkbait. It seems more like HN likes to upvote anything anti-Microsoft. If you actually look at Microsoft's ads, they are definitely poking fun at these use-cases, while highlighting that these are actual REAL-WORLD use-cases, that people already actually do.

227 points by ph0rque 13y ago

Hypothetical: I get a call from my boss's boss at 7pm asking if I can create a weekly metrics spreadsheet for him for the meeting tomorrow. Because I'm a go-getter and want to help him out, I have three options: 1. Wake up crazy early the next morning and head into the office early. 2. Cancel my evening plans and drive back to the office tonight. 3. Pop open my laptop while waiting for the next round of beers at Von Trapp's and get it done. David's arguing that the third option is the least conducive to work-life balance. That's cool, but I'd rather have the ability to edit that Excel spreadsheet during happy hour than have to shift my plans around to do it some other time. (And it sits uneasy with me that 37signals has a book about remote work out and also makes linkbaity, low-content posts like these which blur the line between "signal" and marketing fluff.)

fragmede 13y ago
4. Tell your boss's boss to go stuff themselves.
- hyperbovine 13y ago
  5. Do not answer phone.
  - bsg75 13y ago
    This. Making yourself overly available trains those who would call upon you at unreasonable intervals to use your availability as a crutch. "Plan ahead? Why? I can always call Bob!"
  - slantyyz 13y ago
    I'd also add: Unless you're in a position where you're on-call, don't check your work e-mail when you're 'off duty'.
- jeremyjh 13y ago
  Actually there are two steps here: 4 a. Acquire FU money. b. Tell your boss's boss to go stuff themselves.
  - potatolicious 13y ago
    You don't need FU money to tell people to go stuff themselves, you just have to have a skill set that's in high demand and a good reputation.
    - deleted 13y ago
      [deleted]
    - bowlofpetunias 13y ago
      Actually, you mostly need a) balls and b) the verbal skills to tell people to go stuff themselves without being directly insulting. You would be surprised how few people lose their jobs by saying "no".
      - potatolicious 13y ago
        This is very true. It's a truly dysfunctional environment where someone gets fired for not willing to work un-negotiated overtime. In either way though, there is a huge advantage to having choice - and being able to walk away from a job if push comes to shove. It affects the way you carry yourself, and it dramatically alters the dynamic between you and your employer. The knowledge that, if things really got bad, if your boss turned out to be a giant asshole, you could walk away and be at another job in a week's time, is a tremendous psychological aid when it comes to pushing back and negotiating.
bentcorner 13y ago
In this hypothetical situation, if your boss is calling you at 7PM the day before a meeting, you've already lost. Either your boss should have had the good graces to give you a better heads up, or s/he is going to have to be a big boy, suck it up and either do it themselves or go without for the meeting because you're off the clock.
- Spooky23 13y ago
  Good luck with this attitude in the real world unless you're a unionized hourly worker. In the real world, you're an at-will, exempt employee. So unless you're so special that you have the ability to tell your boss to f-off without worrying about the consequences, you're going to be updating that spreadsheet.
  - acjohnson55 13y ago
    You don't have to be special. You just have to have a skillset and knowledge base that's difficult enough to replace that people treat you with a modicum of respect. If the place isn't burning to the ground, I don't think it's unreasonable to push back.
    - mcguire 13y ago
      "a skillset and knowledge base that's difficult enough to replace" That would be the definition of special.
      - acjohnson55 13y ago
        I guess it depends on how low your bar for calling something "special" is. I would put on two different levels someone who truly has a "special" skillset vs. someone who is simply very effective and in whom the company has a sunk investment.
  - pyrocat 13y ago
    Or don't give your boss your cell phone number?
MBlume 13y ago
You missed an option. Maintain your work-life boundaries, tell your boss's boss you're sorry, but you have plans, and that he'll have a better chance of getting things like that from you with more lead time. I'm pretty sure David's arguing we should do that. ETA: Actually I really think the idea of "work-life boundaries" is a useful framing to have alongside "work-life balance"
- RBerenguel 13y ago
  There's another missing option, which is your boss makes you get it done whatever the cost and your boss is the one telling his boss next time do things with time (like in R. Hamming's You and Your Research talk)
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
- untog 13y ago
  tell your boss's boss you're sorry, but you have plans, and that he'll have a better chance of getting things like that from you with more lead time. Well, I think the actual answer here is that your boss doesn't ask you to do things like this in the first place. When he or she asks you to you're going to be hard-pressed to say no.
  - MBlume 13y ago
    That depends entirely on your confidence in your job security/your ability to find another job.
- eholder 13y ago
  So what has that got to do with the advertising campaign and calling it a shame and dystopian? Technology is an enabler. If you want to work, the advertised technology enables you to work. If you don't want to work, the technology does not hold a knife to your throat and force you to work. This is coming from someone who refuses to take a smartphone from work because it raises expectations about answering phone calls and emails over evenings and holidays. I do appreciate VPN though, because it means I can leave early on Friday evening if I have something fun to do, and catch up on the work on Sunday night. And that's why DHH argument comes across as so silly, because it is dystopian not to allow technology that allows me to time shift my work. By DHH's same metric, the following are dystopian because they enable you to work outside your office: Remote desktop, VPN, Google Apps, SaaS offerings, web based tools, smartphones with work email. Google even has a similar pitch for their Google apps: >Need to attend a meeting from your kid’s soccer game? >Access your work from any device with a web browser – your computer, phone or tablet – and stay productive even when you’re away from the office >Google Apps makes it easy to stay connected to projects you’re working on and the people you work with, no matter where you are or what device you’re using.
icecreampain 13y ago
> also makes linkbaity, low-content posts You were expecting otherwise from a company? Whenever there's money to be made, expect that someone will try.
- iaskwhy 13y ago
  Well, I'm pretty sure selling books is not their biggest slice of revenue. In situations like this I prefer to think of the post as coming from the author of a book which might give him some additional knowledge points on the issue at hand. David surely is one of the main advocates of remote work. In my opinion, this one it not linkbaity but insightful.
bronbron 13y ago
DHH's arguing that you're missing the very important 4th option here: 4) "Sorry, I'm busy with other things tonight."
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
  - PeterisP 13y ago
    It has everything to do with the advertising campaign! The technology itself, as you say, is an enabler and is neutral. This advertising campaign, on the other hand, is not really advertising the technology but some [IMHO wrong/immoral] argument about how lifestyle & responsibilities should be handled.
  - bronbron 13y ago
    > If you want to work, the advertised technology enables you to work You want to work at your kid's soccer game? During a date? During happy hour? If the campaign was, "Work from home easily one day a week" this blog post wouldn't exist. The debate here has nothing to do with remote work as a concept. Many people have a problem with work-life balance and it's insensitive at best and dystopian at worst for Microsoft to basically say, "Hey, why aren't you working while your date's in the bathroom?"
cousin_it 13y ago
The problem is that if your boss knows that option is available, he'll use it more. That may not affect you but it affects the marginal case, where the only thing stopping the boss from overloading the worker is the fixed working hours. All change happens at the marginal case.
runako 13y ago
Look at the pictures in the post. Both pictures show a person working while actively ignoring the person they are with. Missing a goal at your kid's soccer game? Pretending to pay attention to your date while working under the table? I think that's what David is addressing.
- romanovcode 13y ago
  I think no matter what MS will do David won't be happy. Example: MS creates online-powered tools: David is not happy because it means MS is advocating ignoring everything around you while working. MS does not create online-powered tools: David is not happy because MS does not create online-powered tools like, for example, google does.
  - Apocryphon 13y ago
    It's not the product, it's the pitch.
    - eholder 13y ago
      As I noted in another comment[1], Google's pitch is this: >For your business, this means every employee and everyone you work with can be productive from anywhere, using any device with an Internet connection. >Free your team from cubicles >Access your work from any device with a web browser – your computer, phone or tablet – and stay productive even when you’re away from the office. >Need to attend a meeting from your kid’s soccer game? [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6740512 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6740512
      - Apocryphon 13y ago
        The ads with the silhouettes are a lot more in-your-face about fostering a lack of work/life balance, though. I wouldn't characterize it dystopian so much as it is tone-deaf, out-of-touch, and heavy-handed. Which is par for the course for Microsoft marketing. To me, it's less egregiously disagreeable than it is benignly mediocre. Oh MS, you're so corporate.
greenyoda 13y ago
"I'd rather have the ability to edit that Excel spreadsheet during happy hour than have to shift my plans around to do it some other time." And if this becomes a trend and lots of people start popping open their laptops at happy hours (go-getters probably tend to hang out with other go-getters), happy hours won't be very happy anymore.
forgotAgain 13y ago
I think his argument is that Microsoft is enabling actions such as your bosses while selling it as a boon to you. There are times when things "have" to get done but this sales pitch isn't about that. This pitch is about blending work and personal life to such a point as to there being indistinguishable. That makes for a very crappy life for the worker.
nathantotten 13y ago
I feel like your hypothetical boss in this hypothetical situation is not very organized as he didn't think about the weekly metrics spreadsheet until 7pm the night before it is due. It might be time to change hypothetical teams.
corresation 13y ago
DHH has some interesting observations on remote work, putting his money very much where his mouth is (which immediately differentiates his actions on this from mere opinion of others). It is not surprising that he comments on things related to a discussion that he has long been involved with. If something comes up in the security industry, I expect Schneier to comment on it. If remote work comes up, DHH will likely chime in. Either may or may not get voted up on HN if it promotes discussion.
g123g 13y ago
I would reply with the following famous quote- Your lack of planning is not my emergency
- mikevm 13y ago
  No you won't. I bet that most of the hotshots in this thread that say they will tell their boss to go fuck himself will actually do the work and shut their mouths.
g123g 13y ago
I will reply with the following famous quote - Your lack of planning is not my emergency
- chrisbennet 13y ago
  The way I've heard it is: "A lack of planning on your part, does not constitute and emergency my part."
- jamesbritt 13y ago
  I keep seeing this or similar comments. A reply like this would almost certainly equate for many people to quitting their job on the spot. I'm puzzled why so many people think everyone has this luxury. There have been many times in my life where I've had bosses make shitty unfair demands, and while I would have loved to stick it to The Man and thrown off my proletarian chains the reality was I needed the damn job to pay my bills and quitting on the spot was not a sensible option. These sorts of discussions remind me of times I've hung out with guys who've witness some sort of verbal altercation, with somebody then insisting that if anyone every spoke to them that way they would kick his ass into next week. But we all knew how easy it was to talk like a tough guy when it wasn't your ass on the line. Yes, if your boss is an asshole then you need to figure out how to get to a better situation. But telling people to take a hike is not everyone's best career move, and having the option to make a bad situation a bit less onerous is a good thing.
PeterisP 13y ago
The problem is with the whole concept of a need for 'weekly' metrics spreadsheet suddenly appearing in 7pm. There are various options for fixing this problem: 1. Assigning and scheduling someone to do them weekly on the day before that meeting within business hours. 2. Implementing automation for the weekly metrics spreadsheets, to be stored or emailed at the scheduled time. 3. Othwerwise, accepting the fact that you won't have all the ponies you want by arbitrary deadlines. By the way, this is a choice for the boss to make, not you. And none of these options involve doing something at 7pm.
adeaver 13y ago
Like others have said, if your boss is calling you at 7PM to do a worksheet for a meeting the next day, one he has likely know about for a while, then worrying about your work/life balance is the least of your problems. As it's not so much the occasional 'Crap, we need X stat!' that is a problem, it's the constant assumption that your boss can call on you any time and _expect_ you will comply. That's just a shitty boss. Regardless of their title.
metaphorm 13y ago
how about you have some self respect and let your boss know that that request crosses a line.
flurdy 13y ago
Option 4: Say no. TPS reports can wait
deleted 13y ago
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e12e 13y ago
Setting aside the fact that if you've got metrics that can be compiled into a spreadsheet, you should probably also have a system to do that automagically -- how about option 5) Remind your boss to call someone in a different time-zone? Side note: Not sure if they still do it, but the IT team for Norwegian "local" airline Wideroe, used to rent some offices in Thailand, and have employees work 6 months from there (with families) -- in order to provide 24 hour support provided by the same team that did the rest of the work.
mpclark 13y ago
Do people really do this? Maybe I'm a bad boss, but I wouldn't dream of calling staff out of hours for stuff like this...
- mark-r 13y ago
  There are bosses who will do this just so they can have some sense of power over you, never mind whether they actually need the results or not. Pray you never have one of those.
mcguire 13y ago
Hypothetical 2: You get a call from your boss at 7pm for the third time this week and the seventh time this month. Because you would like to keep your job, you have three options: 1. Cancel your evening plans and get the work completed. 2. Pop open your laptop, skip the second act of La traviata, and kind of get something that sort of looks correct done in the lobby. 3. Tell your boss that you'll be happy to get it done with sufficient lead time, but cannot do so this time. Then, skip the second act while you polish up your resume.
- pgeorgi 13y ago
  4. Not bring that stupid cell phone to the opera house in the first place
otikik 13y ago
> I'm a go-getter and want to help him out It's language trap. Go-getter is just a tag. It sounds nice, but in your context it just means "I'm ok with altering my personal life when my boss asks". Here are some more options if you are not a 'go-getter': 4. Ask your boss to delay the meeting so you have enough time to do the spreadsheet in your own time. 5. Ask your boss if the spreadsheet is absolutely necessary for the meeting. Given that there was no time to have the "proper" document done, would it be possible to have a "high-level" version only? Maybe I can send the complete spreadsheet after the meeting via email? 6. The last-resort option would be proposing compensation with free time. "I will arrive early and do the spreadsheet early, but I will leave after lunch / will not come to work on friday". Make sure that you earn personal hours here: if you arrive 1 hour earlier, you should leave 2 hours earlier. Don't accept more money for that overtime. In addition to those two options, start telling your boss (softly) that having you prepare a spreadsheet manually every week is not very productive. Propose spending some time automating the process so at least it takes 15 minutes instead of several hours.
kunai 13y ago
While David's constant MS-bashing makes me weary to his writing most of the time, in this case, he's absolutely correct to call Microsoft out on this advertising. People using their electronic devices and ignoring people with them is already a large problem and is sucking the humanity out of humanity. Encouraging this sort of behavior is deplorable, but obviously Microsoft has got to sell a product and this sort of stuff appeals to management. Your scenario assumes that you're going to a bar, working while attaching no significance to anyone else in the process. These ads actively encourage ignoring your partner on a date or your kid at a game to get work done. Call me old-fashioned, but that picture simply isn't correct.
skue 13y ago
> David's arguing that the third option is the least conducive to work-life balance. Where does David say this, and why do we consistently upvote arguments to the extreme at HN? DHH is simply saying that encouraging people to work during their free time is a bad thing, and remote access doesn't magically make it okay. Since you offered an example, let me give you another. I have a good friend who came down with the flu early last week (not "flu" as in cold, but the full-fledged flu). All she wanted to do was rest, but because she can work from home her boss insisted she pull 10 hour days while in bed with a fever. They would never have wanted her in the office in that condition, but somehow remote work made it okay. She's still not healthy and hoping to sleep through the weekend to recover.
leemuro 13y ago
Apparently whoever made this at MS did so on their phone during happy hour because its some of the worst marketing I've ever seen.
gress 13y ago
If you're a 'Go-Getter', you've probably already recognized that your boss's lack of planning will impede your fast-track career. How are you planning to unseat him or find a new boss who can help fulfill your ambitions?
ptbello 13y ago
The point is that it's not ok for your boss to call for work at 7pm. It isn't. Increasing your efficiency in responding to that call is a step in the wrong direction. Plus the images show someone actively ignoring the person they are with to do work on the side, which also isn't ok in my book.
- mikeash 13y ago
  There's nothing wrong with increasing your efficiency in responding to that call. We need to distinguish between the technological and the social. Increasing your ability to work in more times and more places is great! It means that if you really need it, you can use it instead of just being screwed. Socially, we need to realize that this incredible ability needs to only be used when truly necessary. Dumbing down the technology to not support it is not the answer.
alan_cx 13y ago
Unless I'm paid to be available, I'm not taking the call. Businesses buys your time according to the contracted deal; a set amount of time, to do a certain task(s), in exchange for money. Now, no business I know of gives out free money, even if you ask. So, why on earth would any one give them extra time on a task for no money? Try it. Go ask your boss for some money for doing nothing. In fact, phone late at night and ask...
lignuist 13y ago
4. Don't answer the phone at 7pm when you see it's your boss.
netghost 13y ago
You could also say no, but Von Trapp's is a damn good option too unless you get a bocce ball through the screen ;)

deleted 13y ago

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aw3c2 13y ago
OP is abusing HN for affiliate spam. Referer-free link (no endorsement, just battling an [censored]): http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00CO8D3G4 http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00CO8D3G4

jezebel6 13y ago

microsoft's 'get it done' ad campaign reads more like a parody of bad marketing than anything else. The SNL skit almost writes itself.

columbo 13y ago

I struggle with calling this dystopian, even though I partially agree. I think it's great that we push work-life balance, and I believe we should disconnect but I can see where these advertisements might be comforting to some. Back in the 70's my dad worked in an office and wasn't home until 7:30. He only made it to a handful of sporting events and school events. If you asked him, in the 70's, would he prefer to be in the office making that phone call or be sitting at <insert kid's> <insert event> he would choose the latter without hesitation. For a more recent example, my sister is in sales and will get phone calls any hour of the day. For her, being able to go out and do things with the occasional 5 minute interruption is an absolute game-changer. Not just answer phone calls, but to bring up the customer information and maybe write a quick email.

beachstartup 13y ago
i agree, and i'm not sure this "pitch" can be really pinned on microsoft (alone), the entire tech ecosystem of the 00's made it happen, starting with blackberry, then apple, the wireless carriers, etc. it's a larger cultural/technology shift.
- pyrocat 13y ago
  Why are you trying so hard to be an apologist for a shitty advertising campaign?
pyrocat 13y ago
Those are examples of terrible work life balance that would become only slightly less terrible with Office 365's version of the future. Meanwhile, Microsoft is promoting that slightly less terrible future as a Good Thing™.

consultant23522 13y ago

For the millionth time. If you're going to tell me you don't trust me to work from home you'd better not be pushing to outsource to India. I mean how can you trust someone on the other side of the planet but you can't trust me 10 miles away?

dariot 13y ago
I think it's because programmers in India cost less than you. It's easier to trust someone that cost less - if they screw up you've lost considerably less money.

grandalf 13y ago

Of all the things in the world to get indignant about this poster ranks pretty low in my opinion.

bagosm 13y ago

First of all remote work is not only for the employee. The startup community should know better that working can also include monitoring, getting up to date on things, and even meetings. Having a coworker that lives across the globe and needs a quick line edit help shouldn't punish you by means of staying at home OR him to a strict off-hours schedule. That's all part of the work from home culture and tools.

bjourne 13y ago

Obviously it is some kind of ironic marketing campaign. The full pr is here: http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/news/press/2013/nov13/11-06getitdone.aspx http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/news/press/2013/nov13/11-06ge... I don't get it because I'm picturing people that are working 8h in the office and then working during the night thanks to Office 365.

0x0 13y ago
The best part is the illustration of the person having completely passed out in bed, still clinging on to the tablet. Wow, that's sad.
sp332 13y ago
I thought the posters were a joke at first, but I think the point is that people already do this. The posters aren't saying "now you can work from bed!" It's saying: you already work from bed, let me help you with that.

pfraze 13y ago

Those images are comically off-putting. The father looks like he's missing his son score a goal because he's on his cell. The guy in happy hour looks like he's awkwardly suffering boredom.

pionar 13y ago

It's interesting, DHH has a book to pitch, and he has all these link-baiting, low quality posts that automatically get upvoted because it's DHH. And surprise, they're all about how working remotely is the best situation for everyone. It's not. Just like every other working style/paradigm, it works for some, not for others.

gress 13y ago
How is this post about working remotely being the best situation for everyone? How is it linkbait?
- curiousDog 13y ago
  It is. Because he's just over analyzing a bunch of ads. And picking on Microsoft is bound to draw the usual startup hate crowd. The ads just showcase the fact that you can access your work files online anywhere, which was previously unheard of anywhere. Twisting that and putting on dystopian airs is just link baiting
  - gress 13y ago
    Firstly, accessing your work files anywhere has long been enabled by Dropbox, Google Docs, and iCloud, so there's nothing that was previously unheard of. Secondly, the complaint is that Microsoft is celebrating people being distracted from family events by the demands of work. I think that's a valid complaint and not something to be encouraged.
    - curiousDog 13y ago
      I'm talking about Enterprises (fortune companies), that've been tied to IBM or Microsoft, access to files everywhere is new. And google apps for enterprises doesn't preceed o365 by that much
      - gress 13y ago
        Fair enough. I guess you agree with the other point then.

veritas20 13y ago

I think some are missing the major point. If you are working from every where there is no "life" in the "work-life" balance message that they are trying to convey. "Work anywhere", yes. "Work-life balance", no.

csmuk 13y ago

As someone who just threw his smartphone out of a car this morning due to the stresses of having to work before my contracted hours, they can fuck off. Waking up to work and going to sleep with work - not for me. Apologies for the language.

grecy 13y ago
> Apologies for the language. None needed. Certain words exist to convey a very strong sense of emotion. The topic you're talking about is obviously one of those. IMO, you used the word perfectly, and I hope you did it to their faces too :) (They've been doing the same to me this week)
- csmuk 13y ago
  They did indeed get it to the face (well by email). Thou who hire third parties to validate our dev process (which is a fucking shambles) and take advice from said third party, despite us crowing the same message for 6 fucking years, will recieveth face full of nasty language.
untog 13y ago
Quit your job then. There are plenty of better situations out there, if you tolerate it then you're helping no-one - and definitely not yourself.
- csmuk 13y ago
  Not that easy when you have to work from home due to a disabled child and wife and don't get any help from the state. Working on my own business as an exit plan.
  - deleted 13y ago
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    - csmuk 13y ago

azernik 13y ago

Eh, there are also less dystopian versions of this ad. Like the one where someone works on a presentation on the train while going to a customer meeting - more about squeezing out the completely wasted hours than about working during the really rewarding parts of your life.

LVB 13y ago

I was ready to post some counterpoints, but that was before I clicked on the link to the full Microsoft ad. The images are truly awful. An example promoting that during my lunch, while walking in a national park, I should participate in meetings is ridiculous. A guy collapsed in bed clinging to his tablet that's pulsing with new work? Right.

HillRat 13y ago
Also, just try getting a decent cell signal on the rim of the Grand Canyon. And the wi-fi options in national parks are decidedly subpar. The fact that I know this saddens me greatly.
- bcbrown 13y ago
  The wi-fi options in national parks is fantastic. There isn't any. That's the way it should be.

philwelch 13y ago

Microsoft is an enterprise software company and these advertisements are targeted to the bosses who bully people into working nights and weekends from home/bed/the bar/ their kid's soccer game, not to the people who are actually working nights and weekends. The fact that they've gone for brutal realism, if anything, just goes to show they're accepting this fact rather than pretending they are in the business of bringing joy to people's lives.

wmeredith 13y ago

Microsoft has this weird knack for anti-marketing. They did this shit, too, with Windows phone. The launch campaign was basically a bunch of ads saying that using your phone was bad.

underwater 13y ago
Ironically these ads have the complete opposite message than the original Windows Phone ads.
- Pxtl 13y ago
  "Abortions for all!" "Boo!" "Very well, no abortions for anyone." "Boo!"
res0nat0r 13y ago
These ads are just fine for the product, which allows you to work anywhere, and is what they are touting. The only reason they are being hated on right now is because it is Microsoft, and around here Microsoft Is Evil.
- gress 13y ago
  No. They are being criticized because they are trying to persuade that it's good for bosses to demand that people work instead of paying attention to their families in order to sell tools that allow people to work anywhere to corporations.
  - res0nat0r 13y ago
    Why aren't we outraged at Dropbox for letting you have access to your work documents at home so that you can work late into the night? Or Google so I can work on that spreadsheet during dinner and until late in the morning? All companies that push cloud based easily accessible products will tout how you can work / play whenever / however you want thanks to their new tech. This is just faux outrage because it is Microsoft.

ChuckMcM 13y ago

So it is, as with most things, complicated. Yes, having to work during your kid's soccer game is not great, but having the option makes some things possible. Clearly there are toxic work situations where "the boss" is always demanding more than is possible and requiring a lot of free "overtime" to get it done. And this technology is an enabler for that type of supervisor, but it isn't the cause of their mismanagement. Bad bosses are bad, they ask you stay late all the time, they ask you to come in and work weekends for this "sprint" they put a spin on it that it is good for the company but at the end of the day they are just trying to maximize productivity at the expense of their employee's work/life balance. But there are also things that come up, they come up in random time zones far away and sometimes they need you to work at odd hours. At those times, when it is an exception that you're going to be working at an odd time and unexpectedly, it can be convenient that you can do that work on what you have with you (your phone or tablet) than feeling the need to carry around a larger amount of stuff 'just in case.' That said, I don't know here Microsoft gets their ad agencies but this one and some of the ones poking at Apple are probably not the best way to express their intent. And sometimes a bad advertising pitch is identified by how easily it can be used against the company that funded it. The rest seems to be 37signals taking advantage of a wonderful "straight line" as comedians would say, and spinning it to their advantage.

eholder 13y ago

Isn't that the pitch of everything from Remote desktop to VPN? From http://www.google.com/enterprise/apps/business/benefits.html http://www.google.com/enterprise/apps/business/benefits.html >For your business, this means every employee and everyone you work with can be productive from anywhere, using any device with an Internet connection. >Free your team from cubicles >Access your work from any device with a web browser – your computer, phone or tablet – and stay productive even when you’re away from the office. >Need to attend a meeting from your kid’s soccer game? Edit a spreadsheet while at the airport waiting for a flight? Respond to an email from a hotel business center computer? Google Apps makes it easy to stay connected to projects you’re working on and the people you work with, no matter where you are or what device you’re using. Putting Microsoft and dystopian into the headline does get a lot more clicks, upvotes and outrage though.

ry0ohki 13y ago
Or really even what 37signals own features are implying: "It’s just the right amount of Basecamp when you’re on-the-go." https://basecamp.com/mobile https://basecamp.com/mobile

wil421 13y ago

I get work done during work hours. #GetItDoneAtWork

andyl 13y ago

Create an enemy. Great marketing DHH.

SubuSS 13y ago

So everyone supporting this, don't you have on calls in your team? (assuming you work on a live product). Don't you have subject matter expertise split enough that you might be needed when your component conks? Don't you have aggressive targets that your whole team is rushing towards once in a while? It might be a systemic issue. It might also just be an one off situation. You should fight back if the boss is just being lazy / incompetent, but most of the situations I have seen have been way too deep for the boss / current oncall to handle. You just suck it up and get to work - that's all. The onus is on you to equip your boss to handle it himself. As always different shades - there are many cases where a set timetable isn't an option. In those cases, I welcome such tools that give me the option to work from anywhere rather than forcing me to drive back to office.

douglee650 13y ago

classic FUD. look it up, whippersnappers.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

ffrryuu 13y ago

Microsoft is a toxic workplace.

gress 13y ago

Perhaps they should rebrand it, "Office Eternity".

gordaco 13y ago

So, the idea is making remote work so unappealing that employees reject it actively?

martin1b 13y ago

For a second there, I thought DHH turned over a new leaf and wasn't going to drop the f-bomb in a post... wrongo... That said, I agree fully with his thoughts from an employee perspective. However, MSFT is trying to appeal decision makers who write the check for their software, not the employees.

russell 13y ago

I find the image of the woman typing away at her computer while her date, boyfriend, husband, coworker even sits attentive to her, to be appallingly rude. Now I am much older than nearly all of you and I grew up when the only electronic distraction was a portable radio. I remember being at a restaurant with a date. She told me that she liked being with me because I paid attention to her and ignored all the people around us. My partner and I have been together for 12 years, but I still pay attention to her like it was out first date.

lotso 13y ago

Incredible low-content article for how many points it has. Terrible linkbait. It seems more like HN likes to upvote anything anti-Microsoft. If you actually look at Microsoft's ads, they are definitely poking fun at these use-cases, while highlighting that these are actual REAL-WORLD use-cases, that people already actually do.