12 ms·
Edward Snowden is Almost Broke
- brianbreslin 13y agowould it be considered treason to send him money as a US citizen? I could imagine he could fetch a pretty penny consulting on russian sites about security issues (even if he isn't the top guy in the field, he has a crazy name recognition right now).
- rms 13y agoOnly "light treason"
- imd23 13y agoWe should help him. How we the HN community could? I'd love to hear ideas from all of you.
- krapp 13y agoI hope he doesn't start burning classified documents for warmth...
- barbs 13y agoAs gasull above mentioned, if he supplied a bitcoin address, we could send him some?
- h2s 13y agoWhile I don't have any ideas, I can at least add my voice to those saying "I will send money to this man if there is a way to do so". I'm dubious of that Journalistic Source Protection Defence Fundraiser that's been posted as it sounds like he needs more than just lawyer money right now. And I think there are a lot of us out there who will contribute financially as soon as there's a bonafide way of doing so.
- sinak 13y agoWe at https://taskforce.is https://taskforce.is (mostly HNers) can help set something up,. I'll reach out to ACLU and his lawyers in the morning.
- contextual 13y agoTaskforce looks seriously cool. It deserves more attention on Hacker News and elsewhere. Does Taskforce have badges or support banners for webmasters and bloggers to put on their sites and link to you?
- gasull 13y agoHe could get Bitcoin address and ask for donations. I would be surprised if he didn't think about this already. He might not want to give the Government a excuse to ban Bitcoin.
- cjh_ 13y agoI am not sure how easy it is to get money in/out to/of bitcoin from within Russia, at least in New Zealand it is generally a PITA and involves many hoops.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- ngpio 13y agoAt least one major exchange (btc-e) allows deposits/withdrawals in rubles.
- Pitarou 13y agoRoubles? Wouldn't dollars be better?
- venomsnake 13y agoIn Russia dollars are not quite useful.
- ekianjo 13y agoI'd think you can exchange dollars everywhere in the world, even in Russia.
- venomsnake 13y agoYes but getting Bitcoin exchange that you can withdraw money from in foreign currency is trickier.
- kostyk 13y agoi thought he got a job??
- richforrester 13y agoHe got NSAxed.
- olefoo 13y agoHe probably did; but at this point you have to assume that any media you receive on the topic of Edward Snowden is a calculated ploy for someone's agenda. Whether it's Wikileaks trying to embarrass the US .gov or the Intelligence Community trying to discredit Snowden and by extension all whistleblowers. Anything you read about Snowden has been pushed or spun by by someone. The man himself may be miserable, or comfortable; we have no idea and I'd guess he likes his privacy. But the persona of Edward Snowden that is reenacted on blogs, television, etc.; that is a complete fabrication that is always already a lie in some direction or another.
- bobbles 13y agoSurely there must be news organisations willing to pay for interviews?
- Pitarou 13y agoHe may have to, but it will be a desperate move. Think about the risks involved. The US government: - spends billions on illicit surveillance tech - officially sanctions kidnapping ("extraordinary rendition") as a tool of security policy - brought down an Ecuadorian diplomatic flight over European airspace, on the mere possibility that he might be on it - fully intends to lock him up in a cage forever and ever and ever
- trekky1700 13y agoYou pretty much just described Batman.
- greesil 13y agoAh... best comment all year!
- Pitarou 13y agoInteresting point. Which side do you think the Caped Crusader would take?
- angryasian 13y agobased on the fact that he gave Fox control to destroy his cell phone surveillance. I think he would be pro snowden
- yen223 13y agoBased on the fact that he had a cell phone surveillance system, he'd probably be pro-NSA.
- dgolds 13y agohttps://wikileaks.org/freesnowden https://wikileaks.org/freesnowden
- Pitarou 13y agoThanks for pointing that out but, to be clear, this fund is to feed the lawyers, not Mr Snowden.
- Amadou 13y agoThat's legal defense, and I'm sure that's expensive. But what if we just want to send him some some money to reward him for making the sacrifice for all of us?
- adamnemecek 13y ago> Roland Tscheinig gave $4,000 > Thanks so much, Mr. Snowden, > Your sense of initiative is commendable and should serve as a guiding light for all of us. > Your contribution to our common future has been absolutely invaluable! Holy crap, this guy puts his money where his mouth is.
- Amadou 13y agoMany of us here can afford to do the same. A very close friend and business partner gave a similar amount to help Star Simpson with her situation because he believed very strongly that she was a victim of the War on Dignity. Star Simpson: http://boingboing.net/2008/09/22/star-simpson-one-yea.html http://boingboing.net/2008/09/22/star-simpson-one-yea.html
- adamnemecek 13y agoBeing able to afford it and actually doing it are two very different things.
- jamesaguilar 13y agoWow, I remember that. Did you know that she's the one who did that Taco Copter thing they were talking about on here a few months ago?? Cool.
- christiangenco 13y agoWhat would happen if he ran out of money? Wouldn't Russia just... give him some? I can hardly think it would be in the diplomatic interest of Russia for Snowden to become unable to pay his lawyer.
- jbigelow76 13y agoHaving the government pay for your lawyer and being broke are not mutually exclusive (and that's assuming Russia sees some benefit to providing him counsel). Not sure why Russia would give him any money, what does the money buy them? They could probably put a roof over his head if they really wanted but that's still a far cry from not being broke.
- golergka 13y agoAlso, I think that "putting a roof over someone's head" and "putting a roof over someone who US government really wants to get" cost slightly different.
- JonFish85 13y agoDo you think Russia really gives a shit anymore? Enough to throw money at him?
- BlindRubyCoder 13y agoI was wondering about this the other day. I'm sure someone will help him out.
- zerorbit 13y agoHis parents could set up a kickstarter/indiegogo/paypal. They wouldn't have to name Snowden in the plea for funds, could be named the "Freedom Fund". So, donators wouldn't be charged with aiding a felon.
- Pitarou 13y ago"Good luck with that." is all I'm saying.
- icebraining 13y agoIf the donors know it's for Snowden, the courts would as well.
- yread 13y agoIs he actually a felon?
- vincie 13y agoLet this be a warning to all you crazy kids out there thinking you can take on the man and not get busted.
- scott_karana 13y agoRight, don't bother exposing the biggest Constitutional violation of this century, because you might have to take on a part-time job while you're in exile... (If you weren't serious, I apologize!)
- vincie 13y agoI wasn't. Anyway, poor bugger. He will never work for anyone remotely connected to any government institution or any multinational in any country. The US is so omnipotent and omnipresent that even the Chinese, Ecuadorians and earlier on, the Russians, were seemingly afraid to touch him.
- koko775 13y agoHe took on the man knowing he'd get busted.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- GabrielF00 13y agoWhat would be the legality of sending Snowden money? He's been charged with a crime and donations would enable him to live outside the country. Isn't that aiding and abetting a fugitive?
- sillysaurus2 13y agoThe bare truth is "almost certainly."
- ygra 13y agoWould that be relevant to people outside the US, though? I guess they cannot legally go around, charging people with aiding a fugitive, all over the world. (Or maybe that's just overly naïve on my part)
- saraid216 13y agoIt basically depends on the country and your personal situation. If you're the kind of person the US gov't would be interested in going after, then you probably shouldn't donate, as it's an extra and arguably unnecessary vulnerability to an offense pinnable to you. It's a risk assessment. If you're not sure, then I'd say it's unlikely you need to worry. For me personally, for instance, even if a donation would put me on some watch list, it actually wouldn't change anything in my life or my anticipated plans.
- jamesaguilar 13y agoThey can charge you, but they probably can't (practically) come and get you. Whether they would bother is another question entirely (ans: probably not, unless you brought it to their attention via some other mechanism).
- copx 13y agoI do not think the US government would bother to try to prosecute that. It is just not worth the resulting diplomatic drama. I think right now the Obama administration is happy that people are starting to forget about the whole affair. The NSA's mass surveillance program is still on and it seems now accepted as the new normal. Ultimately Snowden has failed. He exposed the program but the resulting outrage was not strong enough to bring it down. In fact, now that the US government got away with this they will probably get even more extreme in future..
- pmarca 13y agoWhat? Treason doesn't pay?
- nobodyshere 13y agoLots of americans wouldn't agree that he committed a treason. And not just americans, btw. Disclosing such acts of violation of your Constitution is a necessity, not a treason. It isn't the case where it would have been better not to know about it.
- spacebe4time 13y ago"The principle is old, but true as fate, kings may love treason, but the traitor hate" Thomas Dekker. Last time I was there 3 years ago, vodka was still pretty cheap. I hope he likes it.
- david927 13y agoIt paid off for our founding fathers. I have too much respect for you, Marc, to think you're doing anything other than joking but it's still disappointing and not really funny. Remember all the people in Germany during WWII (*sorry for the tired analogy) who could have spoken up and didn't. I guess they did the right thing. They certainly wouldn't want to commit treason -- it doesn't pay.
- Ygg2 13y agoSure it does. Just ask NSA/CIA. They betray their country and ideals it was founded on, on a millisecond basis. But you need to be on the right side to get all the fat loot.
- dead_phish 13y agoI have very little sympathy for his monetary plight. He made his bed, let him sleep in it. Or rather, when your giant paycheck comes from the government, maybe torquing off that government in the most flamboyant way possible isn't the best of ideas.
- padolsey 13y agoYeh, let's all roll over. Who would want to do the right thing when you can do the easy thing?
- XorNot 13y agoWho's saying he did the right thing? There's more then 1 perspective on this.
- corin_ 13y agoThe opposite argument to saying he did the moral thing is to say he did the immoral thing, not to say "serves him right for upsetting the people paying his salary"
- dead_phish 13y agoI would argue other wise, on two counts. What I said was that I have no sympathy for him biting the hand that feeds. Second, I think that the situation has been vastly over complicated by attempts to colour matters as some sort of grand moral crusade. Snowden is not a white knight, nor is he a traitor. He's a man who did what he thought was right. I disagree with his methods, and think that his actions (leaking to journalists rather than going through the appropriate oversight channels (or even just dropping a USB drive off at his Congressman's office, with a break down of what it all means)) negates any sort of 'moral right' that the community has been ascribing to Snowden. The moral crusade is against the NSA, not for Snowden. There's a distinct difference between the two.
- CamperBob2 13y agoYes, a Constitutional one and an unconstitutional one.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- IvyMike 13y agoI'm actually surprised he has any access to his money at all. I assumed all of his assets would have been frozen under some sort of murky fugitive/terrorist/organized crime laws. Or maybe he took proactive steps to keep this from happening?
- ekianjo 13y agoWell he could have withdrawn some significant amount of cash before leaving, or put it in banks not controlled by US interests.
- alexeisadeski3 13y ago> or put it in banks not controlled by US interests. That would probably be tough for him to have done.
- ekianjo 13y agoWhy is that? After all, he knew that he was blowing out some serious secrets, and he did take the necessary steps to protect himself from direct retaliation at the time, and was advised on how to do so as well. It would not make much sense that he would have somehow "forgot" about protecting his financial assets.
- pyre 13y agoThe US has even bent the Swiss banks to their will. I think that "not under US influence" isn't a synonym for "outside of the US." Withdrawing large amounts of cash, or transferring money to (e.g.) the Bank Melli Iran would have presumably raised red flags.
- blackoil 13y agodepending on the amount HSBC/Citibank can be considered not under US influence.
- DonGateley 13y agoWould a contribution be tax deductible?
- kintamanimatt 13y agoProbably not! Donations are only tax deductible if they're to registered charities, and usually only if the charity is in the same country in which you're a taxpayer.
- DonGateley 13y agoDarn! The irony would be incomparable!
- winfred 13y agoWhat I want to know, is Snowden going to do his tax return this year in the US?
- bigiain 13y agoI'd laugh at that, but I'm a little too cynical to think that the NSA isn't entirely likely to get the IRS to throw a "parallel reconstructed" Capone style charge at him just to avoid having to go to court and admit any of their myriad of best-practice security failings…
- harywilke 13y agoAs a US citizen the answer is always 'yes' even if you lived on the moon.
- lnanek2 13y agoSince he can never return to the US anyway, there are charges against him, it is kind of pointless.
- KMag 13y agoBut on the off chance there's some loophole in Russian law (or the laws of some country he passes through in the future) that makes extradition to the US for tax evasion particularly easy, filing and paying his taxes may be worth the cost and effort. Or if by some long shot some future president pardons him, he'll be glad he paid his taxes.
- wavefunction 13y agoI'm not sure if Russia has a "double taxation" agreement with the US and a quick google doesn't immediately prsent an answer. If so, expats who pay taxes in Russia won't have to pay those same taxes in the US. As long as Snowden files his taxes, he won't be under a tax obligation or legal liability. I am not a lawyer!
- sinak 13y agoI'll reach out in the morning to people/orgs in touch with him and see if taskforce.is can set up some way of getting money to him without a big legal risk.
- repnescasb 13y agoGood idea! Keep us informed if it worked, I would be very happy to donate!
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- pearjuice 13y agoServes him right. He is a convict bringing harm to the United States of America and its international allies. Hopefully the financial desperation will make him turn himself in. It will only be for the better. I know you guys stand firmly against it, but this man has endangered millions of innocent lives. Sure, he revealed some illicit behavior within the archipelago of our government, but that doesn't mean we should turn against our internal structure. What do you want, anarchy?
- mixmastamyk 13y agoDon't have to help for now, says in the fourth paragraph he's got a new job.
- fsiefken 13y agoyes, that is an odd contradiction between the paragraph and the title.
- Volscio 13y agoThe need to put a tidbit of information out like that from his lawyer seems more to me to be a bid to counter the claims that he is being run by a foreign intel service who some might assume would have given him large sums of cash for his continuing to stay in Russia in public silence.
- hajderr 13y agoAt least he is free.
- crististm 13y agoHow the world changed...
- Grue3 13y agoMaybe he should ask Putin for some spare change.
- veganarchocap 13y agoWe could set something up to donate to him? I think we owe him a hell of a lot. Allowing him to live comfortably is the least we can do. Do you think if a fund was set up it would be hijacked by the U.S?
- orenmazor 13y agoSo what you're telling us is that being a whistleblower and fleeing to Russia turns out to be a poor career move?
- tokenadult 13y ago"The American fugitive, who revealed troves of classified information as he fled the country in May and is now living under temporary asylum in Russia, reportedly started at a job at an unnamed Russian website earlier this month." How do computer industry salaries in Russia compare with government contractor salaries in the United States? And how much of whatever money people send to Snowden will end up with Snowden, and how much with Snowden's lawyer? (Another issue is whether the one-year asylum offered by Russia will be extended later or not. What will Snowden do if Russia decides not to continue to grant him permission to be in Russia and work there?)
- a3voices 13y agoSnowden could write a book and make millions. This profit potential means he's not "broke" in the same sense a typical broke person is.
- JonFish85 13y agoI'd imagine he'd have a hard time getting someone to publish & distribute that book (in the USA, at least)...
- wehadfun 13y agoSo what punishment would be he experience if he was to return? It sounds like he is not "free" now. He would be a high profile prisoner. How bad would the government treat him?
- atom-morgan 13y agoI imagine he'd be tortured.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- brosco45 13y agoNo he isn't, he's the richest amongst us.