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Teenagers say goodbye to Facebook and hello to messenger apps
- edwinnathaniel 13y agoBBY has a very good chance to become the FB of messenger if they can go through the storm.
- freakyterrorist 13y agoTheir time is up. Too late now. I downloaded BBM when it launched and its so far behind other services its laughable. The only way to add people was through inane PIN codes or email. Even the most basic messaging apps today have address book integration. Such a waste of former market leadership
- nly 13y agoAfaik the idea of BBM pin codes is you can exchange contact information without giving out anything sensitive, formal, or prehistoric such as your email address, phone number, or your real name. It's a stroke of genius if you ask me, and I think it appeals to teenagers secretive nature. Most teenagers probably don't want all their phone book imported magically in to their IM app either: 1) because they probably IM and Skype with more, and more varied, people than they text or phone, and 2) because their phone book probably includes their annoying aunties and relatives. I also love the design of the BBM app (on Android). It's straightforward, single purpose and clean.
- publicfig 13y agoI don't know that you have any data on that second section, but it's still worth pointing out that a great majority of apps that import your contacts through a contact book allow you to pick and choose who you want. And there's no reason why PIN codes and contact imports can't co-exist. It's a pretty big oversight on BBM's part.
- nly 13y agoPerhaps, but I haven't missed it. I still think this isolation is a feature, not a bug.
- 6thSigma 13y agoBBY is the ticker symbol for Best Buy, so I assume you mean BBRY? I've never used Blackberry Messenger. What makes you think it could be the "FB of messenger?"
- ye 13y agoNo, it doesn't have any chance. WhatsApp | 350 million monthly active users Viber | 200 million registered users Line | 280 million registered users KakaoTalk | 100 million users Skype | 300 million connected users (663 million registered users in 2010) WeChat | 400 million registered users (mostly in China) Tango | 100 million registered users
- astrobe_ 13y agoWhatabout the IRC network(s)?
- mambodog 13y agoAbout 90% of the population of Brazil uses messaging apps I think you might wanna qualify that one a bit more.
- seiji 13y ago90% of Brazil does everything. 90% uses Orkut. 90% produces electronic music. 90% lives on beaches. 90% lives in the rain forest. It's a big foreign place where we can paste any number we want on it.
- ye 13y agoI always thought they were called messaging apps, not "messenger".
- seiji 13y agoNormals only care about what's now and what's very soon next. Facebook archives your online life drivel, but that has mostly zero value to normals. They just want their next giggle, and they have zero loyalty to your pseudo-corpornation.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- lignuist 13y agoProbably those apps archive everything as well, but they just don't show it to the users.
- graeme 13y agoWhatsapp is not so useful unless you have internet access, correct? I purposely avoid a data plan on my phone, so I haven't downloaded it. But I've noticed more people asking me to use it to communicate with them. I've been saying goodbye to Facebook too. Not because I've got a preferred alternative, but because it's deliberately engineered to suck you into it. In the short term, you spend more time on it. In the long term, you set up systems to avoid visiting such a time sink. I never feel good after spending time browsing Facebook.
- erid 13y agoYou can still use WhatsApp without a data plan, almost everywhere there is WiFi. It may depend on your life style, but I spent a lot of time at my house, office or college, so my phone is connected most of the time without a data plan.
- _mulder_ 13y agoI don't know what country you're from, but in most of Europe and the US (or anywhere infact!) why would you not have a data plan for your phone? It's quite difficult to find a phone plan without some form of data included, even PAYG, and the price difference is often negligible. Fair enough if using a fashionably retro 'dumb' phone and not a smart phone, in which case you can't use WhatsApp anyway. If you are using a smart phone without a data connection, then why? Surely you're missing out on all of the benefits of owning a smart phone like maps and instant access to online information, free messaging (WhatsApp anyone?). If you just don't want a data plan, you can still use WiFi which would likely cover you for 80% of the time (home and work).
- arkj 13y agoSimple messaging apps will always be attractive. Look at WhatsApp. Too many features can also be a put off. Look where wave went. Simplicity wins, always!!!
- pestaa 13y agoI downvoted, because this is very short-sighted. IRC is simple. Blogs are simple. They had their time but they didn't win. They should have, though.
- _mulder_ 13y agoIRC is not simple for the average Joe. WhatsApp is. Not quite sure how blogs come into this. Have they had their time? They seem to be more popular (and simpler) than ever.
- qsymmachus 13y agoIRC is the opposite of simple for most consumers.
- allsystemsgo 13y agoOkay I'm probably one of the few devs on HN that actually likes Facebook. It helps me communicate with my friends, parents, etc. The only social network I like more than FB is Path. Also, I do enjoy Facebooks "Messenger" app. I use it often.
- cdcarter 13y agoThe Messenger app is the only thing keeping me on Facebook. It's so great to be able to communicate with people in a layer more formal than text but less formal than email.
- amolsarva 13y agoI've thought this for a while also - the big messaging apps like Whatsapp and Line and Kakao and WeChat are SO BIG and growing so fast already. More reason to think they might "beat" Facebook is that a) many are already owned by Internet giants, i.e., have tons of resources to drive growth. WeChat is owned by Tencent/QQ and Line by South Korea's Naver. And b) they are Asia-centric where Facebook is weaker. Maybe these "international" players end up beating Facebook on its home turf.
- saadshamim 13y agofacebook has become, dare I say "ubiquitous", it's still the best way to keep in touch with friends regardless of how often you use them, I use my fb maybe once a week, but that one session allows me to catch up with what my friends have been up to. I think messenger apps, including fb messenger, are great when you're young and your social life is limited to only your clique, but I don't see them replacing fb or even becoming a massive threat to fb
- gdilla 13y agoare teens really going to socialize on a platform their parents use? grandparents too! it would be like teens talking on the phone 30 years ago in the living room with all your family about. nope.
- 10dpd 13y agoI think there is an opportunity for a startup to deliver a mobile messaging platform for developers to build apps on. Parse.com would be ideal, but unfortunately is far too expensive for this use-case. If this already exists, or someone would be interested in exploring this with me, let me know.
- jivid 13y agoCorrect me if I'm wrong, but aren't Kik Cards exactly what you're looking for?
- chourobin 13y agowhy hasn't Kik taken off like the other group messaging platforms? Its always been the better application and it was the first of its kind.
- newsmaster 13y agoI'm really not sure about the branding of it. You'd think it was a game or flashcards or something in that region.
- danso 13y agoFrom the OP's closing sentence: > But there is little doubt that millions of teens will use these apps more and more, and older demographics will eventually join them. There's a good chance that will continue to be at the expense of Facebook. Wow, that's quite the compelling evidence...the Guardian has "little doubt"! Another great data point: > The roll-out is still in its infancy, but after one music streaming service in the Middle East added the WhatsApp sharing button, its was surprised to find its users sharing 50% more songs via WhatsApp than Facebook. The "one music streaming service in the Middle East" that apparently is so popular it doesn't need to be named! Of course, the above statement could also be true if the startup's users previously shared one song on Facebook and have shared 2 on Whatsapp, but who's counting?
- _mulder_ 13y agoYou sound like you disagree with their conclusions? Or do you just not like the Guardian? Either way, it would be more interesting to discuss your own opinions
- danso 13y agoI can't disagree with their conclusions because such specious evidence is used to back them up, cherry-picking non-sequiturs from various agencies and analysts to support a hypothesis that has been run into the ground since FB's IPO. Mostly, I'm just annoyed that an article with this theme has popped up again, even though it was discussed on HN just a couple days ago, and provides no real insight except: Yep, kids are trying things out. That's not a bad thing to ponder, but to ponder it in several different threads within the same weekend? Kind of annoying.
- elorant 13y agoMay I ask why is there so much fuss about youngsters? Yes, they will be the consumers of tomorrow but how about the consumers of today? I’m in my early 40s I earn a lot and I spend a lot. Plus I have my interests pretty fixed. Why aren’t the companies drooling to get my attention instead?
- carbocation 13y ago> Plus I have my interests pretty fixed. Why aren’t the companies drooling to get my attention instead? Couldn't "Plus I have my interests pretty fixed." be the answer to that question?
- VLM 13y agoThat can be read multiple ways, in that even the worlds dumbest advertising / spyware network should be able to easily figure out I'm into hard sci fi and have been into hard sci fi for a long time and probably be into hard sci fi for quite awhile, such as the financially precious immediate future where I will almost certainly drop some $$$ on sci fi books. I'm an easy sell, I know what I like, it should NOT be hard for advertisers to figure it out, I want to spend money on it, and I've got plenty of money. But nobody cares. You don't get PR by making money, only by getting eyeballs and accounts. On the other hand, watching my own kids, its star wars today, gone tomorrow. Minecraft today, gone tomorrow. Lego today, gone tomorrow. Even if you could track my son and accurately predict his current interests, knowing that he WAS really into star wars a year ago is pretty much financially useless given that he seems to be into lego branded cartoons right now, although next year both will be forgotten in favor of something else.
- dingaling 13y agoI think your example of your kids' interests is exactly why that demographic is seen as so valuable for advertising. One poster has a middle-aged interest in hard sci-fi; for $x advertising allocation per individual it's going to be difficult to shift his interests. The same $x applied to teenagers year after year 'flips' them from one revenue-generating interest to another. And sets them up, the advertisers hope, for a non-niche middle-aged interest.
- basicallydan 13y agoWhatsApp, iMessage, BBM, WeChat. They're all basically the same thing: Private messaging services. Simple. I think ultimately that's all people want to do as far as communication is concerned. Not that any one service will win, but in order for any of them to do well, I think they need to do the following: - Private messaging - Group messages - Images - Free, or very very cheap (I don't think anybody has really tested the idea of charging a fee yet) - Cross-platform - leaving out BBM and iMessage - Some way of getting your address book from an existing address book -- Web/desktop messaging. This isn't as important for the younger generation but for many others it is. The only reason BBM and iMessage are or were popular was because they came pretty early and came with devices, but leaving friends out of conversations because they use a different platform from you is damaging, which is why WhatsApp became so popular, and why Facebook Messenger is so popular too.
- 10dpd 13y agoFYI: WhatsApp charged initially to cover their server costs.
- w1ntermute 13y agoThey still charge $0.99/yr after the first year (which is free).
- basicallydan 13y agoReally? I haven't been charged yet!
- Spittie 13y agoSome accounts got charged after a free year, some got charged after a "trial" of many years, others get "gifted" a lifetime free service. I'm in the last group, but I know that people that had to pay for WhatsApp.
- manojlds 13y agoThey keep saying I will be charge INR 55 from next year, everytime I install the app on a new phone. They never have in the last two years.
- obilgic 13y agoAnd we are back to MSN days, the mobile version though...
- creatio 13y agoYou say that like its a bad thing...
- CSDude 13y agoI had a Windows Mobile 5 device, and it had MSN, at least I could write to my buddies who are on computer via my mobile. I miss those days.
- KyeRussell 13y agoFacebook chat general.
- DrewRWx 13y agoIM-to-AIM bridge on my dumbphone.
- philwelch 13y agoThis sounds just like when I was a teenager, and everyone used AIM and ICQ.
- phea 13y agoI think the takeaway from ICQ, AIM, MSN Messenger, Friendster, MySpace, etc is that as soon as you start losing users, then it's over and there's no winning users back. No matter how ubiquitous the service becomes in one's daily life.
- Avalaxy 13y agoHonestly I don't see where all these articles about 'teens leaving facebook' come from. I don't recognize the problem at all, I have 0 friends who are leaving facebook. Admitted: I'm in my early 20s and so are most of my friends. But except for whatsapp, messenger apps dont seem to be really popular here. Is this something that is specific to the US?
- jusben1369 13y agoIn SN timeline you're a dinosaur.
- ciupicri 13y agoNot really. The article mentions this: «"I only use WhatsApp to communicate and send pics these days," said Natalie West, a twentysomething financial sales associate in London.».
- phillmv 13y agoI knew I was no longer at the forefront of youth culture when I only joined snapchat a week before they were valued at 4 billion - and that I was one of the first amongst my friends.
- antjanus 13y agoI'm in the US, here's what most of my friends are doing: * saying "fuck it" to Facebook and using Instagram as their primary means of communication to "everyone" * using SnapChat or WhatsApp for other communication * people are actually starting to text. When I look at my FB feed, I see the posts of 10-15 people max. I do check people's pages just to make sure FB is not fucking me over (and sometimes it is) but most of the time, people just drop off facebook. They're not "leaving" but they're not using it.
- ihuman 13y agoI keep seeing everyone say that people are communicating via Instagram. Can someone explain how that is possible? It sounds extremely inconvenient, since you can only post pictures and comment on said pictures.
- jusben1369 13y agoWatching this with my emerging teenagers. Their biggest complaint is that FB is complicated. They are super comfortable using stand alone apps for single use tasks. FB won't let them double tap a screen to love. It moves things around so they're out of chronological order. It all drives them nuts. Plus it's true that Uncles and Grandparent's comment and that freaks them out.
- seiji 13y agoFB won't let them double tap a screen to love. Does that mean something? Is there a new app you double tape on things to "love" them instead of "like" them?
- jusben1369 13y agoInstagram heart
- manojlds 13y agoIt seems like FB's Instagram purchase was a good move then.
- jusben1369 13y agoI think so.
- seiji 13y agoWhat's the full progression of vapid casual enthusiasm? Like -> Love -> (Have Sex With) -> (Worship as The One True God) -> (Idealize as The Genius Successor of Steve Jobs) -> (Give Read/Write Access to My Bank Accounts) -> (Grant my Power of Attorney To) -> (Dissolve Myself and Transfer My Full Agency as a Human To)
- breakall 13y agoWhere does "digg" fall in that?? ;-)
- speeq 13y agoSorry for the shameless plug but, yesterday I've developed a simple app for the kik messenger platform called "Nearby". It will show you a list with users sorted by distance, letting you know if the person is close to you or not. Here is a screenshot: http://imgur.com/88AIbgv http://imgur.com/88AIbgv If anyone has kik installed and wants to try it, simply open http://nearby.pw http://nearby.pw on your phone and it will start in the kik messenger. It hasn't been fully optimized yet, so if you find any bugs please let me know.
- rayiner 13y agoOf course teens are leaving Facebook. I'm pushing 30 and use Facebook to share pictures of my kid with my parents and my wife's parents and my wife's grandmother (all of whom are active on Facebook). If I were a teenager, I wouldn't use it with all that parental oversight. If there wasn't all this youth worship in Silicon Valley, nobody would see this as a problem for Facebook. We have a lot more disposable income than teenagers do.
- gum_ina_package 13y agoThis brings up a really good point. Being in my early 20's and in college, I have many friends who have a strict policy of not friending family on Facebook or going by a pseudonym because they don't want their parents seeing all the picture of them partying etc. I wonder if FB had implemented a feature like G+'s circles, if this wouldn't be an issue.
- mandeepj 13y agoYou have lists on FB that is equivalent of G+'s circles.
- akinity 13y agoYou do but privacy policies and what who can see on whose time line keeps changing. Timelines haven't always been a thing either. So if you've used facebook for a while, the incoherent and mercurial scope of information prevents you from wanting to share anything that could be misinterpreted by anyone. And you have to assume that everything will be scraped somewhere for all of eternity.
- AJ007 13y agoFacebook has messed with the privacy settings enough that people who are watching what they are doing don't trust them. For people who aren't paying attention, the privacy settings are too confusing to trust. Snapchat? Recipient views picture once, and if they try to save it you know.
- HomebrewCC 13y agoSomehow I'm still quite sceptical about this. No one actually has the statistics from Facebook's side to back this. Stand-alone messaging apps are, according to the statistics, gaining traction but these two can go side by side with Facebook pretty easily. The only thing teenagers might be leaving according this article could be Facebook Messenger...
- adventured 13y agoIt makes perfect sense. There is a finite amount of time. Facebook acquired most of the non-business social network space over the course of a particularly fast growing five or six years. For apps like Snapchat to exist, with their huge user base and usage numbers, it must take time away from Facebook. The US market, as an example, is mostly tapped out on saturation when it comes to social media reach. The posts that would have gone to Facebook in 2005 by college students, are no longer going to Facebook. Who are Snapchat's users? The same users that typically adopt everything like this, the youngest consumers: teens and early 20 somethings. It follows that Facebook has to be losing time share among young consumers to this phenomenon.
- tedunangst 13y agoYou are assuming that social network time is fixed.
- pinaceae 13y agoteenagers in wealthy, western countries will soon be a very small target group. western europe will shrink dramatically. just read an article on how western society is becoming more and more aggressive towards kids due to people not being accustomed to them anymore. hotels, restaurants banning kids altogether.
- mtgx 13y agoIf Google is still serious about making a successful "social network" or whatever is the next evolution of that, then they should buy Whatsapp. I'd hate to see Facebook acquiring that one, too, like they did Instagram.
- newsmaster 13y agoFunny, I finally took the plunge too just the other day and I'm not a teen. Deleted everything, my whole account, every post, every photo, every tag, every poke, after I downloaded a copy of my stuff of course. But it was not easy task, oh no! They deliberately make it difficult to delete things! The only way is manually one by one, but its worth it. Finally FB free. My reasons? Well it got really annoying how it turned into a Womans Magazine! Maybe I'm getting to that age when my friends are getting married and having kids, but I'm really not interested in posts of babies, Miley Cyrus BS, Royal Wedding nonsense etc... The list goes on and I only subscribed to reputable news sources like the Times, Guardian.
- talles 13y agoI always loved instant messaging and hated those social networks that you have to 'build yourself' there, like facebook nowadays or the old myspace. I wanna hook up with ppl 'right now' and sustain only what really matters for me; I don't wanna 'look this is my weekend', 'love u grandma', 'dude likes that company', 'that rockband is awesome!'. Fuck. In this sense I think twitter is genius. Feels like instant messaging and still people get to know you in a 'lighter' way than facebook, without that ego avalanche.
- 27182818284 13y agoThere is something that I don't see mentioned too often in articles: Teenagers don't just leave Facebook entirely, they just use it differently. So they'll check Facebook from time to time and possibly have an account, but do more and more interactions with messenger apps with their friends. So I see high school students using Facebook one way, because parents and grandparents are on it, and then using apps for the primary communication with friends. In that sense they aren't leaving as much as they are changing how they use it. >When people set up events and get-togethers on Facebook, West and her boyfriend tend to reply on WhatsApp instead because... This article actually mentions it. That's exactly what I've seen happen. Facebook is still used, but it is used differently.
- x0054 13y agoOccasional use is also unprofitable use for FB.
- vinceguidry 13y agoThe article seems to paint teenagers as Facebook's core and initial user base. But I distinctly remember it being college students. Facebook seems to be just as popular as it ever was with that crowd. People may be getting misled by all the bullying stories and whatnot and forgot that.
- phn 13y agoIt seems to me that the fundamental difference is the "timing" and duration of what you share online with your friends. Maybe it is more important what you want to share now and not so much save everything you share in the same place to be seen for eternity. Interesting times I would say :)
- JVIDEL 13y agoHow do I put this: teens aren't stupid, they know fb and others farm their data for profit with little consideration for privacy. So what they do? the same I would: leave and move to a better solution. I did that all the time back in the day, but its not so easy today, why? because now professional life demands you be part of whatever is work-trendy right now, and that includes having an up-to-date profile on every damn social network out there that isn't considered lame (cough myspace) It's bikeshedding to the max: did you build something truly innovative and significative? sorry brah it's not on my feed! and your klout score is really low, how can you be "in the know" if you barely tweet?
- smileysteve 13y agoInstagram / Tumblr / Bitstrips / Vine are indicative of a post-literate society. Users are avoiding processing words or concepts without imagery. The length of the facebook post / tweet is decreasing, the content - or level of content are suffering.
- twic 13y agoI'm not sure i'd include Tumblr in that list: there's quite a bit of text on Tumblr. I would include Twitter, though, which has functioned as the axe-man in the death of literate discussion on the internet.