7 ms·

There is something special about Waterloo. We noticed it a couple years ago.

by pg 13y ago

redthrowaway 13y ago
What's special about UW students/grads, and what do you attribute it to?
- dfrey 13y ago
  It has a reputation for being the best engineering school in Canada, so lots of the best people self-select to go there. Now having said that, I think there is less variability in the quality of education you get between Canadian Universities as compared to US schools. This is mostly based wishy-washy conjecture though.
  - hatred 13y ago
    After working with so many bright colleagues from Waterloo, I knew such an article was bound to come up one day considering they are known so less here in the valley. Coming from a collegiate programming world, their ACM ICPC record is also pretty top-notch.
- adamtait 13y ago
  I would say that the variability of education quality between Canadian schools isn't that high, but the number of universities isn't great either. Waterloo does try to be more experimental with their curriculum than many other schools, but the real secret is in the co-op/internship program. All Waterloo engineering & (many) computer science students start doing internships in first year and complete 6x 4-month internships before they graduate. This means that you get significant experience before you're cast off on your own, and a chance to test the working conditions at a variety of companies, roles and locations. Graduates are better prepared to hit the ground running once they get their diploma. For hiring companies, they get a low risk 4 month interview. Waterloo also has interns available all year long (not just in the summer months), so they can spread out the minor burden of training an intern. I haven't seen a similar model anywhere else and Waterloo has been doing it for decades.
- kohanz 13y ago
  It's the co-op program. Students trade independence during summers for year-round schooling that has them gaining 2 years of work experience at up to 6 different organizations by the time they graduate. And the reputation of the program is such that, if you've got the ability, you'll get opportunities at the biggest tech players. On top of the work experience, you'll have a wealth of experience applying to literally hundreds of jobs, being interviewed, both technically and non-technically, perhaps as many times as you will for the rest of your career, and all of this while working alongside and competing with very bright peers.
  - redthrowaway 13y ago
    Most Canadian universities have co-op programs, though. I just finished my last courses at UVic and am currently doing my 3rd co-op term (and locked in for a fourth). I agree that co-op is basically mandatory, but I'm wondering what sets UW apart from other universities with similar programs.
    - kohanz 13y ago
      My understanding is that no other Canadian schools have a co-op program that is as established and has the same scale and reputation. With those attributes come top quality employers, more responsibilities on the job, etc. (generalizing, of course). From the Waterloo co-op website [1]: 17,300 co-op students enrolled over three semesters in more than 120 programs. 4,500 employers hire Waterloo co-op students. [1] https://uwaterloo.ca/co-operative-education/about-co-operative-education https://uwaterloo.ca/co-operative-education/about-co-operati...
      - vation 13y ago
        Also, Waterloo engineers take at least six co-op terms starting as early as January of freshman year, which is much more and much earlier than other schools.
        DonPellegrino 13y ago
- randomdata 13y ago
  In this case, I would attribute it to the province and wise choices with the allocation of government money. Ontario, the province Waterloo is located in, has historically been pretty good about pushing technology, especially in rural areas. For instance, in the early to mid-nineties the rural public schools local to me had high speed internet connections, while I was reading articles about schools in big city USA that had no access to the internet at all. Today, we have a fibre optic internet connection to the farm, while I read about farms in the US still struggling with dialup connections. Additionally, programming has virtually always been a part of the school curriculum. My father even talks about programming on punch cards in high school. Again, I read about US schools only thinking about introducing this today. I think that lead to a disproportionate number of young people growing up in the area of Waterloo with a strong technological mindset, due to availability of technology that much of North America did not have easy access to. Then, Waterloo, due to its reputation, gets the best of that bunch. With all that said, I feel the government has pulled away from a lot of that technology spending in more recent times, so it will be interesting to see if Waterloo can maintain the quality of output for decades to come as the young children today come up through the system.
- kcbanner 13y ago
  Co-op program.
- Pxtl 13y ago
  There are solid financial reasons for a Canadian engineering student to want to stay in Canada. With that in mind, some school is going to end up being The Best Tech School In Canada. That's Waterloo.
guyzero 13y ago
Like all great schools what makes the students great is selection bias. Waterloo has a great reputation, so it gets the first pick of the best students. The great graduates give the school a great reputation. Lather, rinse, repeat. (Not that I'm complaining as I was part of the system and have benefited greatly from it. Co-op is a very, very big deal. But the professors and the school itself is not appreciably different from U of T or UBC or wherever)
- chollida1 13y ago
  I think its a bit more than this though. Their co-op program was, and continues to be, pretty awesome. This, IMHO, is what first got the great students to go there. With university cost only increasing its nice to know you'll be able to pay your way due to co-op.
  - aianus 13y ago
    With co-op salaries only increasing it's nice to know the students will be able to pay whatever we feel like charging them -- UW administration
    - mahyarm 13y ago
      UW isn't private, a good chunk of the tuition is subsidized by the Canadian government for all Canadian citizens. On top of that undergraduate student loan interest is also paid while you are studying at the school.
      - aianus 13y ago
        UW may not be private but the pricing is based on supply/demand not costs. For example, a first year student enrolled in Math pays half as much as a first year student enrolled in CS. They both take exactly the same courses in the same rooms at the same times with the same professors. Engineering and CS students subsidize the rest of the school in order to improve the university's rankings. We're just cash cows to them.
- 13y ago
chollida1 13y ago
Microsoft has been onto this for a very long time. Even back in the early 90's they'd hire huge numbers of co-ops and graduating students each year.
mathattack 13y ago
We used to recruit there for my prior employer. Everyone thought it was because one of the big bosses got his engineering degree there. Then we found the folks were just as talented as their ivy league peers, and very honeset, down to earth, and willing to work hard too.
pokoleo 13y ago
Cribbed from a recent Quora answer of mine: The Waterloo (CS/Eng) intern ecosystem is immensely strong. First year students generally work at the best companies that they can, often taking smaller startups where they are able to learn the most. There's a steady transition to final co-op terms, where most classmates end up working in Silicon Valley, Redmond, NYC, and their own startups. It's a great place to be if you want to be part of the brain drain. Like many well-known American business schools, UW has the fortune of having graduates opting to return term-after-term to hire interns. Since UW interns are full-year round, this creates a dependency of companies to hire interns (compensation is less than full-time employees, but it's still nice). While I understand that other schools may have 'almost' co-op programs, Waterloo's is the largest one in the continent (and perhaps the world too). By having multiple exposures to different employers, the school provides successful students the ability to quickly ascend the ranks of the corporate ladder while receiving academic instruction on how to be better at their jobs. I understand a common problem at other universities is that courses are not always relevant to the real world. By placing students constantly in contact with production code, there is a strong backlash against badly taught and irrelevant course material. Waterloo is grounded in the real-world, as I think most of us live in it. My only complaint is the geese and the timezone. I'd prefer to be on the west coast, but Waterloo is home (until Winter term).
- seanmcdirmid 13y ago
  The other more famous UW also does this: Google has a habit of hiring lots of UW graduates (see Jeff Dean), who then go on to hire other UW graduates...and also a very good co-op program with many willing local companies (most notably, Microsoft, but also Intel in Portland).
  - netvarun 13y ago
    No, Jeff Dean is not from UW. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Dean_(computer_scientist) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Dean_(computer_scientist)
    - seanmcdirmid 13y ago

There is something special about Waterloo. We noticed it a couple years ago.

by pg 13y ago

There is something special about Waterloo. We noticed it a couple years ago.

redthrowaway 13y ago

What's special about UW students/grads, and what do you attribute it to?

dfrey 13y ago
It has a reputation for being the best engineering school in Canada, so lots of the best people self-select to go there. Now having said that, I think there is less variability in the quality of education you get between Canadian Universities as compared to US schools. This is mostly based wishy-washy conjecture though.
- hatred 13y ago
  After working with so many bright colleagues from Waterloo, I knew such an article was bound to come up one day considering they are known so less here in the valley. Coming from a collegiate programming world, their ACM ICPC record is also pretty top-notch.
adamtait 13y ago
I would say that the variability of education quality between Canadian schools isn't that high, but the number of universities isn't great either. Waterloo does try to be more experimental with their curriculum than many other schools, but the real secret is in the co-op/internship program. All Waterloo engineering & (many) computer science students start doing internships in first year and complete 6x 4-month internships before they graduate. This means that you get significant experience before you're cast off on your own, and a chance to test the working conditions at a variety of companies, roles and locations. Graduates are better prepared to hit the ground running once they get their diploma. For hiring companies, they get a low risk 4 month interview. Waterloo also has interns available all year long (not just in the summer months), so they can spread out the minor burden of training an intern. I haven't seen a similar model anywhere else and Waterloo has been doing it for decades.
kohanz 13y ago
It's the co-op program. Students trade independence during summers for year-round schooling that has them gaining 2 years of work experience at up to 6 different organizations by the time they graduate. And the reputation of the program is such that, if you've got the ability, you'll get opportunities at the biggest tech players. On top of the work experience, you'll have a wealth of experience applying to literally hundreds of jobs, being interviewed, both technically and non-technically, perhaps as many times as you will for the rest of your career, and all of this while working alongside and competing with very bright peers.
- redthrowaway 13y ago
  Most Canadian universities have co-op programs, though. I just finished my last courses at UVic and am currently doing my 3rd co-op term (and locked in for a fourth). I agree that co-op is basically mandatory, but I'm wondering what sets UW apart from other universities with similar programs.
  - kohanz 13y ago
    My understanding is that no other Canadian schools have a co-op program that is as established and has the same scale and reputation. With those attributes come top quality employers, more responsibilities on the job, etc. (generalizing, of course). From the Waterloo co-op website [1]: 17,300 co-op students enrolled over three semesters in more than 120 programs. 4,500 employers hire Waterloo co-op students. [1] https://uwaterloo.ca/co-operative-education/about-co-operative-education https://uwaterloo.ca/co-operative-education/about-co-operati...
    - vation 13y ago
      Also, Waterloo engineers take at least six co-op terms starting as early as January of freshman year, which is much more and much earlier than other schools.
      - DonPellegrino 13y ago
randomdata 13y ago
In this case, I would attribute it to the province and wise choices with the allocation of government money. Ontario, the province Waterloo is located in, has historically been pretty good about pushing technology, especially in rural areas. For instance, in the early to mid-nineties the rural public schools local to me had high speed internet connections, while I was reading articles about schools in big city USA that had no access to the internet at all. Today, we have a fibre optic internet connection to the farm, while I read about farms in the US still struggling with dialup connections. Additionally, programming has virtually always been a part of the school curriculum. My father even talks about programming on punch cards in high school. Again, I read about US schools only thinking about introducing this today. I think that lead to a disproportionate number of young people growing up in the area of Waterloo with a strong technological mindset, due to availability of technology that much of North America did not have easy access to. Then, Waterloo, due to its reputation, gets the best of that bunch. With all that said, I feel the government has pulled away from a lot of that technology spending in more recent times, so it will be interesting to see if Waterloo can maintain the quality of output for decades to come as the young children today come up through the system.
kcbanner 13y ago
Co-op program.
Pxtl 13y ago
There are solid financial reasons for a Canadian engineering student to want to stay in Canada. With that in mind, some school is going to end up being The Best Tech School In Canada. That's Waterloo.

guyzero 13y ago

Like all great schools what makes the students great is selection bias. Waterloo has a great reputation, so it gets the first pick of the best students. The great graduates give the school a great reputation. Lather, rinse, repeat. (Not that I'm complaining as I was part of the system and have benefited greatly from it. Co-op is a very, very big deal. But the professors and the school itself is not appreciably different from U of T or UBC or wherever)

chollida1 13y ago
I think its a bit more than this though. Their co-op program was, and continues to be, pretty awesome. This, IMHO, is what first got the great students to go there. With university cost only increasing its nice to know you'll be able to pay your way due to co-op.
- aianus 13y ago
  With co-op salaries only increasing it's nice to know the students will be able to pay whatever we feel like charging them -- UW administration
  - mahyarm 13y ago
    UW isn't private, a good chunk of the tuition is subsidized by the Canadian government for all Canadian citizens. On top of that undergraduate student loan interest is also paid while you are studying at the school.
    - aianus 13y ago
      UW may not be private but the pricing is based on supply/demand not costs. For example, a first year student enrolled in Math pays half as much as a first year student enrolled in CS. They both take exactly the same courses in the same rooms at the same times with the same professors. Engineering and CS students subsidize the rest of the school in order to improve the university's rankings. We're just cash cows to them.
13y ago

chollida1 13y ago

Microsoft has been onto this for a very long time. Even back in the early 90's they'd hire huge numbers of co-ops and graduating students each year.

mathattack 13y ago

We used to recruit there for my prior employer. Everyone thought it was because one of the big bosses got his engineering degree there. Then we found the folks were just as talented as their ivy league peers, and very honeset, down to earth, and willing to work hard too.

pokoleo 13y ago

Cribbed from a recent Quora answer of mine: The Waterloo (CS/Eng) intern ecosystem is immensely strong. First year students generally work at the best companies that they can, often taking smaller startups where they are able to learn the most. There's a steady transition to final co-op terms, where most classmates end up working in Silicon Valley, Redmond, NYC, and their own startups. It's a great place to be if you want to be part of the brain drain. Like many well-known American business schools, UW has the fortune of having graduates opting to return term-after-term to hire interns. Since UW interns are full-year round, this creates a dependency of companies to hire interns (compensation is less than full-time employees, but it's still nice). While I understand that other schools may have 'almost' co-op programs, Waterloo's is the largest one in the continent (and perhaps the world too). By having multiple exposures to different employers, the school provides successful students the ability to quickly ascend the ranks of the corporate ladder while receiving academic instruction on how to be better at their jobs. I understand a common problem at other universities is that courses are not always relevant to the real world. By placing students constantly in contact with production code, there is a strong backlash against badly taught and irrelevant course material. Waterloo is grounded in the real-world, as I think most of us live in it. My only complaint is the geese and the timezone. I'd prefer to be on the west coast, but Waterloo is home (until Winter term).

seanmcdirmid 13y ago
The other more famous UW also does this: Google has a habit of hiring lots of UW graduates (see Jeff Dean), who then go on to hire other UW graduates...and also a very good co-op program with many willing local companies (most notably, Microsoft, but also Intel in Portland).
- netvarun 13y ago
  No, Jeff Dean is not from UW. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Dean_(computer_scientist) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Dean_(computer_scientist)
  - seanmcdirmid 13y ago