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It's a myth that this is no longer possible. Want to know how I know? Because I did it. I grew up poor. My parents told me if I was going to college, I'd ha

by pawn 13y ago

It's a myth that this is no longer possible. Want to know how I know? Because I did it. I grew up poor. My parents told me if I was going to college, I'd have to figure out how to do it myself because they couldn't afford to help me. So I did. I worked hard in high school, scored a 30 on the ACT, got some scholarships and paid the rest myself from jobs worked during school and money saved during the summer. I earned my CS degree, got out and found a job, and now I have a (different) job where I can afford a 2000 sq. ft. house that I currently owe just over $100k on and still have plenty of money to save up. People today are generally either lazier or less imaginative. I'm not sure which.

chiaro 13y ago
I did it, therefore everyone can do it? This kind of thinking is completely counter-productive to working towards a solution where no-one has to do it. Unfortunately such a myopic self-accountability for one's own situation is deeply ingrained in the American mythos. Ironically, this conception leads to some of the lowest socio-economic mobility amongst developed nations. After all, if anyone can get to where I am, anyone who isn't where I am is in their position because they're too lazy. No need to look at education, incarceration, safety net programs and healthcare. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socio-economic_mobility_in_the_United_States#Comparisons_with_other_countries http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socio-economic_mobility_in_the_... Key quote: ... 42 percent of American men raised in the bottom fifth of incomes stay there as adults. That shows a level of persistent disadvantage much higher than in Denmark (25 percent) and Britain (30 percent).
- deleted 13y ago
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- matwood 13y ago
  I think there is a position in the middle between you and the person you responded. I see a lot of kids now that have grown up with that attitude that it is never their fault. That leads to not taking responsibility for their own situation. When I was growing up, it didn't matter if I was right. If a teacher called the house it was always my fault and I was punished. Now it seems teachers are blamed for simply trying to do the right thing. Parents take their kids side even when they are grossly wrong. A local murder case where 2 teens shot and killed a guy after luring him to buy a truck has their parents and friends posting 'free <whatever the idiot thugs are called>' on facebook and twitter. So while you are right that a lot of factors come into play when attempting to move up the ladder, you cannot completely absolve the individuals responsibility for their own situation.
saraid216 13y ago
> People today are generally either lazier or less imaginative. I'm not sure which. Definitely less imaginative. Fewer people these days have fantastical stories where they're a singularly representative sample of a nation of 300 million. That takes imagination.
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rsynnott 13y ago
You can give examples of social mobility in all societies; that doesn't mean that those societies necessarily have high social mobility. For that you need statistical evidence.
- pawn 13y ago
  I never said we have high social mobility. I responded to "you can't" with "I did".
  - notdrunkatall 13y ago
    Lately, I've begun to realize that a sure mark of a fool is someone who interprets what he reads not by what is there, but by what he wants to be there.
  - davvolun 13y ago
    > I never said we have high social mobility. Yes, you did. > People today are generally either lazier or less imaginative. I'm not sure which.
seanmcdirmid 13y ago
Gosh darnit, when I was young we had to climb a mountain in the snow barefoot to go to school, uphill BOTH ways, and we liked it! It is a truth universally acknowledged, that a generation of people will always view the next generation as lazier and stupider; when in fact, they are just bitter from getting old. I for one put myself through a good school in CS with great ACT scores also; but tuition back then was only $900/quarter, and the CS department only rejected 50%, not 80% of its applicants as today. Kids these days have it much harder than me.
- pawn 13y ago
  For what it's worth, I'm only 31... I'm genuinely surprised by the responses I've gotten to my post. I replied to a post that spoke in generalities and said "you can't" with my own message of "I did" and people are disagreeing with that assessment by saying "not everyone can".
  - noarchy 13y ago
    I suspect that most HN readers are those who have "made it", relative to many in their respective societies. The professions that are often represented here are usually well-compensated, and there are successful entrepreneurs here, to boot. So I would expect people to be a bit more sympathetic to your anecdote.
  - seanmcdirmid 13y ago
    You are being a black and white literalist, where "you can't" generalizations = 0% probability. It is literally false to say "you can't win the lottery" but given the odds...you are likely not to win. Now go back and read parent post like a normal non-literalist human being, and it will definitely make more sense to you.
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by pawn 13y ago

chiaro 13y ago

I did it, therefore everyone can do it? This kind of thinking is completely counter-productive to working towards a solution where no-one has to do it. Unfortunately such a myopic self-accountability for one's own situation is deeply ingrained in the American mythos. Ironically, this conception leads to some of the lowest socio-economic mobility amongst developed nations. After all, if anyone can get to where I am, anyone who isn't where I am is in their position because they're too lazy. No need to look at education, incarceration, safety net programs and healthcare. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socio-economic_mobility_in_the_United_States#Comparisons_with_other_countries http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socio-economic_mobility_in_the_... Key quote: ... 42 percent of American men raised in the bottom fifth of incomes stay there as adults. That shows a level of persistent disadvantage much higher than in Denmark (25 percent) and Britain (30 percent).

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
matwood 13y ago
I think there is a position in the middle between you and the person you responded. I see a lot of kids now that have grown up with that attitude that it is never their fault. That leads to not taking responsibility for their own situation. When I was growing up, it didn't matter if I was right. If a teacher called the house it was always my fault and I was punished. Now it seems teachers are blamed for simply trying to do the right thing. Parents take their kids side even when they are grossly wrong. A local murder case where 2 teens shot and killed a guy after luring him to buy a truck has their parents and friends posting 'free <whatever the idiot thugs are called>' on facebook and twitter. So while you are right that a lot of factors come into play when attempting to move up the ladder, you cannot completely absolve the individuals responsibility for their own situation.

saraid216 13y ago

> People today are generally either lazier or less imaginative. I'm not sure which. Definitely less imaginative. Fewer people these days have fantastical stories where they're a singularly representative sample of a nation of 300 million. That takes imagination.

deleted 13y ago
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deleted 13y ago

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rsynnott 13y ago

You can give examples of social mobility in all societies; that doesn't mean that those societies necessarily have high social mobility. For that you need statistical evidence.

pawn 13y ago
I never said we have high social mobility. I responded to "you can't" with "I did".
- notdrunkatall 13y ago
  Lately, I've begun to realize that a sure mark of a fool is someone who interprets what he reads not by what is there, but by what he wants to be there.
- davvolun 13y ago
  > I never said we have high social mobility. Yes, you did. > People today are generally either lazier or less imaginative. I'm not sure which.

seanmcdirmid 13y ago

Gosh darnit, when I was young we had to climb a mountain in the snow barefoot to go to school, uphill BOTH ways, and we liked it! It is a truth universally acknowledged, that a generation of people will always view the next generation as lazier and stupider; when in fact, they are just bitter from getting old. I for one put myself through a good school in CS with great ACT scores also; but tuition back then was only $900/quarter, and the CS department only rejected 50%, not 80% of its applicants as today. Kids these days have it much harder than me.

pawn 13y ago
For what it's worth, I'm only 31... I'm genuinely surprised by the responses I've gotten to my post. I replied to a post that spoke in generalities and said "you can't" with my own message of "I did" and people are disagreeing with that assessment by saying "not everyone can".
- noarchy 13y ago
  I suspect that most HN readers are those who have "made it", relative to many in their respective societies. The professions that are often represented here are usually well-compensated, and there are successful entrepreneurs here, to boot. So I would expect people to be a bit more sympathetic to your anecdote.
- seanmcdirmid 13y ago
  You are being a black and white literalist, where "you can't" generalizations = 0% probability. It is literally false to say "you can't win the lottery" but given the odds...you are likely not to win. Now go back and read parent post like a normal non-literalist human being, and it will definitely make more sense to you.

deleted 13y ago

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