7 ms·

Here's the Android release notes: http://developer.android.com/about/versions/kitkat.html http://developer.android.com/about/versions/kitkat.html Highlights:

Here's the Android release notes: http://developer.android.com/about/versions/kitkat.html http://developer.android.com/about/versions/kitkat.html Highlights: * WebView is now based on Chromium * KSM and zRAM integrated into stock kernel * Public SMS framework * Printing framework * Storage access framework

klausa 13y ago
>WebView is now based on Chromium Does that mean that there will no more be stock 'Browser' app? I refuse to use Chrome on Android because of brain-dead, non-disablable 'font-boosting' that makes (among many others) Hacker News absolutely unusable. If that means that the same engine is the only one officially supported on 4.4 forwards, then that's really sad and unfortunate.
- andybak 13y ago
  It seems to have become much less annoying in the Chrome beta. Have you tried it recently?
  - klausa 13y ago
    I just did, following your suggestion. Unfortunately, it's still the same unusable garbage. https://www.dropbox.com/s/rnl8m9ioi9ric5v/2013-10-31%2020.04.40.png https://www.dropbox.com/s/rnl8m9ioi9ric5v/2013-10-31%2020.04... - latest chrome beta (release looks absolutely identical) https://www.dropbox.com/s/867wrehnqsiu3oc/2013-10-31%2020.04.58.png https://www.dropbox.com/s/867wrehnqsiu3oc/2013-10-31%2020.04... - CM10.1.3 stock browser
    - vladgur 13y ago
      I dont think news.ycombinator.com is that usable on iphone either. I use ihackernews.com for 98% of my HN browsing. Try it on your phone.
- Symmetry 13y ago
  Well, there's always Firefox and a whole bunch of other browsers if you don't like Chrome.
  - binaryatrocity 13y ago
    If your not using Firefox on Android, your browser woes are your own fault :D <3 Mozilla
    - hbbio 13y ago
      Apart from Mozilla love, what are the good reasons to use Firefox on Android? I tried it, found it slower and less responsive than Chrome. But as this is a completely biased feeling, I'd love to know more.
      - ahomescu1 13y ago
        Performance depends on the hardware, it seems. On my dual-core+1GB RAM tablet (a Nook HD), Firefox is visibly faster than Chrome (to the point where the latter is almost unusable). On my N4, they're about the same.
      - socillion 13y ago
        Sync is one good reason if you're already using desktop Firefox. I had problems using Firefox on a stock Android Nexus 4 (bugs with selecting text and freezing when scrolling) but it's been a flawless experience after switching to Cyanogen. I'm at a loss to explain the difference.
      - cpeterso 13y ago
        Firefox for Android supports add-ons like Adblock Plus: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/android/addon/adblock-plus/ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/android/addon/adblock-plus/ Firefox for Android also runs on Android 2.2 (Froyo) and later. Chrome only supports Android 4.0 (ICS) and later.
      - Spittie 13y ago
        Those are mine: * Firefox Sync. As I use Firefox on my desktop, it's nice to keep them synched. * Addons. I know this might sound stupid on a phone, but having lastpass autofill your passwords on-the-go is awesome. * Interface. I really like the Firefox Mobile UI, but I hate the Chrome (Tablet, I browse on a Nexus 7) Mobile UI. Chrome get really bad with 3 or 4 tabs, making it really hard to switch tabs, and really easy to close tabs by mistake. * Smoothness. I find that Firefox is way better/faster than Chrome on my Nexus 7 (This might be because I run Nightly, but I've compared it to Chrome Beta too). Especially, try to open 2 or 3 pages with a video, Chrome just become unusable for 5/10 seconds for me. * Memory usage. I have a 2012 Nexus 7, and it has "only" 1gb of ram. It seems that if I open more than 5 tabs, Chrome just love dropping old tabs them out of memory. I've yet to have Firefox drop a tab, even with 10 or more tabs open. (It does drop them if I leave it in background and open something memory-intensive, like a game, but that's expected).
- pbz 13y ago
  I use Opera for this reason alone.
- chops 13y ago
  I don't use HN site on Chrome Browser anymore because the app Hacker News 2 is so good: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.airlocksoftware.hackernews https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.airlocksof...
  - devx 13y ago
    Hacker News 2 is virtually perfect.
    - deleted 13y ago
      [deleted]
    - what_ever 13y ago
      Looks great. Any idea why it uses a different font than the one used by Android?
    - chinpokomon 13y ago
      I only have three gripes. First, it removes my paragraph separation when I post. Second, when you go back to the topic list, it repositions the view at the top of the list again. The third is that when viewing articles, it doesn't use the Chrome rendering engine, so JavaScript demos suffer greatly and I have to relaunch the article in Chrome to see most of the correctly. It sounds like that last point of contention, Google may have just fixed for me. Personally, I like all the changes that I read about today. I'd also like to point out that Chrome as the default webview is a natural fit with the direction Google is taking Android. For some time now on Nexus tablets, there has been no Android browser, only Chrome. Also, you can now save "web apps" as applications, not just as bookmarked links. I think it is only natural that by the time Android 5 is released, you might even be able to install Chrome packaged apps just as you do with regular APK applications. Android and Chrome are merging, and ChromeCast, a lightweight Android kernel that only runs Chrome, is the proving ground.
  - TsiCClawOfLight 13y ago
    Really, it is. Use it.
  - 13y ago
- king_jester 13y ago
  > Does that mean that there will no more be stock 'Browser' app? I refuse to use Chrome on Android because of brain-dead, non-disablable 'font-boosting' that makes (among many others) Hacker News absolutely unusable. WebView is the UI class for displaying webpages as a native Android view. The Browser app contains much more than the WebView class itself.
- lstamour 13y ago
  The font-boosting has tons of known bugs: https://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/list?q=Cr=Blink-TextAutosize&can=2&sort=pri https://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/list?q=Cr=Blink-Te... Once that list gets shorter, it's slated for inclusion in Webkit, though. It's a useful feature if it works consistently. Prevents needless scrolling from side-to-side on tiny screens. (It's a lot less useful on my 21" Android Slate, however)
  - Recoil42 13y ago
    A lesson to developers here: Don't include a feature before it's ready, even if you think it's really cool.
- keeperofdakeys 13y ago
  Nexus devices have shipped with Chrome instead of the stock browser for quite a while. However being Chromium, it'll probably be included in AOSP sources, so I'm unsure if they'll stick with Browser or make a Chromium. If it is a Chromium app, there are chances that it will be less bloated, as I don't think they opensourced the Chrome Android UI/enhancements.
- atomi 13y ago
  On the subject of Chrome on Android, why can't we have a permanent desktop view option?
  - kolistivra 13y ago
    I'm not sure you mean exactly this but, it's added recently: https://developers.google.com/chrome/mobile/docs/installtohomescreen https://developers.google.com/chrome/mobile/docs/installtoho...
- zobzu 13y ago
  ironically firefox is probably the best android browser right now. why not just use that?
corresation 13y ago
"Android 4.4 introduces platform support for hardware sensor batching, a new optimization that can dramatically reduce power consumed by ongoing sensor activities." This sounds remarkably similar to the M7. This functionality of Android 4.4 requires hardware support, which initially is only provided by the Nexus 5. It allows for continuous sensor measurements, only waking the application processor when it delivers a batch of them.
- deong 13y ago
  It's very much the same idea, if not the same underlying chips. The Snapdragon 800 SoC includes these sensors, so a lot of new high-end Android phones are going to support this.
- ZeroGravitas 13y ago
  Or Motorola (owned by Google)'s X8, which was released before the M7.
  - corresation 13y ago
    Oh for sure I definitely don't want to imply that anyone was copying Apple, and something like this doesn't appear in silicon and software overnight. Instead it was an obvious need to anyone who ever did continuous sensor readings to watch their battery life take a perilous dive.
ausjke 13y ago
This is expected, wondering if kiosk mode can be supported as it's supported in chromium.
- ausjke 13y ago
  "Chrome for Android supports a few features which aren't enabled in the WebView, including: WebGL 3D canvas WebRTC WebAudio Fullscreen API Form validation" Since Fullscreen API is unsupported, so no Kiosk.
devx 13y ago
Some new design stuff, too: https://plus.google.com/u/0/+RomanNurik/posts/EURexV9yF32 https://plus.google.com/u/0/+RomanNurik/posts/EURexV9yF32 http://phandroid.com/2013/10/31/android-kit-kat-videos/ http://phandroid.com/2013/10/31/android-kit-kat-videos/
maaarghk 13y ago
"Host card emulation" -- Does this mean I can "upload" my NFC bank cards and transport card and have my phone emulate them? If so that is -freaking awesome-.
- thrillgore 13y ago
  That would be cool as crap. And quickly the subject of all sorts of hell across the board.
- mpclark 13y ago
  Not quite, but everyone and his brother will be able to start issuing NFC 'cards' that work with existing contactless terminals. Think PayPal, Square, your favourite loyalty programmes etc etc. And there's no need to negotiate/buy access to secure elements, or get involved with TSMs etc -- as long as the issuer looks after its own security. This is going to blow NFC wide open :)
  - maaarghk 13y ago
    Hey does this mean that if a Bitcoin exchange gets a hold of an AID then they could write an app that would let me use my phone to pay with bitcoin at an existing contactless terminal? Like, apps can emulate contactless cards, but you can't necessarily upload existing cards you mean? Sorry, I just don't quite "get" it yet I think :P
    - foley 13y ago
      BitPlastic[1] is a about as close as you can get right now. I have been working for the past year on a prototype Bitcoin smart-card compatible with existing contact less terminals, I've gone this route because I am not particularly comfortable with storing my private key on my phone. Prototype works, but lets just say it needs a lot more work. Not sure whether to continue with, for anything like this to have any adoption by retailers the entire Bitcoin community needs to get behind one standard. That is the Bitcoin Payment Protocol[2] which is incompatible with my approach. The Bitcoin Payment Protocol will with the new Android 4.4 changes. 1. https://bitplastic.com/ https://bitplastic.com/ 2. https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/BIP_0070 https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/BIP_0070
rsynnott 13y ago
> zRAM integrated into stock kernel 2013 definitely seems to be the year of memory compression.
kuida0r3 13y ago
Wonder if this means alert dialogs will start showing up from ads in embedded webviews. Window.alert() didn't work in Android's webview and the WebChrome client was the workaround. https://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=752 https://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=752
lambda 13y ago
Did anyone else get a Google internal link for "Chrome DevTools" that gives you an internal Google login page? https://devsite.googleplex.com/chrome-developer-tools/docs/remote-debugging#debugging-webviews https://devsite.googleplex.com/chrome-developer-tools/docs/r... I clicked on that link and got a page that says "moma: inside google. Single Sign On" and asks for a Google login, password, and OTP. It also appears to display a random image; I wonder if that random image is used as part of the authentication process, perhaps as an authenticator that this is a valid Google login page (perhaps something you can verify with your OTP device).
- mdwelsh 13y ago
  That seems busted. I'll see if I can get someone to fix it.
- igrigorik 13y ago
  Doh! On it.. In the meantime, this is the link you want: https://developers.google.com/chrome-developer-tools/docs/remote-debugging#debugging-webviews https://developers.google.com/chrome-developer-tools/docs/re...

klausa 13y ago

>WebView is now based on Chromium Does that mean that there will no more be stock 'Browser' app? I refuse to use Chrome on Android because of brain-dead, non-disablable 'font-boosting' that makes (among many others) Hacker News absolutely unusable. If that means that the same engine is the only one officially supported on 4.4 forwards, then that's really sad and unfortunate.

andybak 13y ago
It seems to have become much less annoying in the Chrome beta. Have you tried it recently?
- klausa 13y ago
  I just did, following your suggestion. Unfortunately, it's still the same unusable garbage. https://www.dropbox.com/s/rnl8m9ioi9ric5v/2013-10-31%2020.04.40.png https://www.dropbox.com/s/rnl8m9ioi9ric5v/2013-10-31%2020.04... - latest chrome beta (release looks absolutely identical) https://www.dropbox.com/s/867wrehnqsiu3oc/2013-10-31%2020.04.58.png https://www.dropbox.com/s/867wrehnqsiu3oc/2013-10-31%2020.04... - CM10.1.3 stock browser
  - vladgur 13y ago
    I dont think news.ycombinator.com is that usable on iphone either. I use ihackernews.com for 98% of my HN browsing. Try it on your phone.
Symmetry 13y ago
Well, there's always Firefox and a whole bunch of other browsers if you don't like Chrome.
- binaryatrocity 13y ago
  If your not using Firefox on Android, your browser woes are your own fault :D <3 Mozilla
  - hbbio 13y ago
    Apart from Mozilla love, what are the good reasons to use Firefox on Android? I tried it, found it slower and less responsive than Chrome. But as this is a completely biased feeling, I'd love to know more.
    - ahomescu1 13y ago
      Performance depends on the hardware, it seems. On my dual-core+1GB RAM tablet (a Nook HD), Firefox is visibly faster than Chrome (to the point where the latter is almost unusable). On my N4, they're about the same.
    - socillion 13y ago
      Sync is one good reason if you're already using desktop Firefox. I had problems using Firefox on a stock Android Nexus 4 (bugs with selecting text and freezing when scrolling) but it's been a flawless experience after switching to Cyanogen. I'm at a loss to explain the difference.
    - cpeterso 13y ago
      Firefox for Android supports add-ons like Adblock Plus: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/android/addon/adblock-plus/ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/android/addon/adblock-plus/ Firefox for Android also runs on Android 2.2 (Froyo) and later. Chrome only supports Android 4.0 (ICS) and later.
    - Spittie 13y ago
      Those are mine: * Firefox Sync. As I use Firefox on my desktop, it's nice to keep them synched. * Addons. I know this might sound stupid on a phone, but having lastpass autofill your passwords on-the-go is awesome. * Interface. I really like the Firefox Mobile UI, but I hate the Chrome (Tablet, I browse on a Nexus 7) Mobile UI. Chrome get really bad with 3 or 4 tabs, making it really hard to switch tabs, and really easy to close tabs by mistake. * Smoothness. I find that Firefox is way better/faster than Chrome on my Nexus 7 (This might be because I run Nightly, but I've compared it to Chrome Beta too). Especially, try to open 2 or 3 pages with a video, Chrome just become unusable for 5/10 seconds for me. * Memory usage. I have a 2012 Nexus 7, and it has "only" 1gb of ram. It seems that if I open more than 5 tabs, Chrome just love dropping old tabs them out of memory. I've yet to have Firefox drop a tab, even with 10 or more tabs open. (It does drop them if I leave it in background and open something memory-intensive, like a game, but that's expected).
pbz 13y ago
I use Opera for this reason alone.
chops 13y ago
I don't use HN site on Chrome Browser anymore because the app Hacker News 2 is so good: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.airlocksoftware.hackernews https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.airlocksof...
- devx 13y ago
  Hacker News 2 is virtually perfect.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
  - what_ever 13y ago
    Looks great. Any idea why it uses a different font than the one used by Android?
  - chinpokomon 13y ago
    I only have three gripes. First, it removes my paragraph separation when I post. Second, when you go back to the topic list, it repositions the view at the top of the list again. The third is that when viewing articles, it doesn't use the Chrome rendering engine, so JavaScript demos suffer greatly and I have to relaunch the article in Chrome to see most of the correctly. It sounds like that last point of contention, Google may have just fixed for me. Personally, I like all the changes that I read about today. I'd also like to point out that Chrome as the default webview is a natural fit with the direction Google is taking Android. For some time now on Nexus tablets, there has been no Android browser, only Chrome. Also, you can now save "web apps" as applications, not just as bookmarked links. I think it is only natural that by the time Android 5 is released, you might even be able to install Chrome packaged apps just as you do with regular APK applications. Android and Chrome are merging, and ChromeCast, a lightweight Android kernel that only runs Chrome, is the proving ground.
- TsiCClawOfLight 13y ago
  Really, it is. Use it.
- 13y ago
king_jester 13y ago
> Does that mean that there will no more be stock 'Browser' app? I refuse to use Chrome on Android because of brain-dead, non-disablable 'font-boosting' that makes (among many others) Hacker News absolutely unusable. WebView is the UI class for displaying webpages as a native Android view. The Browser app contains much more than the WebView class itself.
lstamour 13y ago
The font-boosting has tons of known bugs: https://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/list?q=Cr=Blink-TextAutosize&can=2&sort=pri https://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/list?q=Cr=Blink-Te... Once that list gets shorter, it's slated for inclusion in Webkit, though. It's a useful feature if it works consistently. Prevents needless scrolling from side-to-side on tiny screens. (It's a lot less useful on my 21" Android Slate, however)
- Recoil42 13y ago
  A lesson to developers here: Don't include a feature before it's ready, even if you think it's really cool.
keeperofdakeys 13y ago
Nexus devices have shipped with Chrome instead of the stock browser for quite a while. However being Chromium, it'll probably be included in AOSP sources, so I'm unsure if they'll stick with Browser or make a Chromium. If it is a Chromium app, there are chances that it will be less bloated, as I don't think they opensourced the Chrome Android UI/enhancements.
atomi 13y ago
On the subject of Chrome on Android, why can't we have a permanent desktop view option?
- kolistivra 13y ago
  I'm not sure you mean exactly this but, it's added recently: https://developers.google.com/chrome/mobile/docs/installtohomescreen https://developers.google.com/chrome/mobile/docs/installtoho...
zobzu 13y ago
ironically firefox is probably the best android browser right now. why not just use that?

corresation 13y ago

"Android 4.4 introduces platform support for hardware sensor batching, a new optimization that can dramatically reduce power consumed by ongoing sensor activities." This sounds remarkably similar to the M7. This functionality of Android 4.4 requires hardware support, which initially is only provided by the Nexus 5. It allows for continuous sensor measurements, only waking the application processor when it delivers a batch of them.

deong 13y ago
It's very much the same idea, if not the same underlying chips. The Snapdragon 800 SoC includes these sensors, so a lot of new high-end Android phones are going to support this.
ZeroGravitas 13y ago
Or Motorola (owned by Google)'s X8, which was released before the M7.
- corresation 13y ago
  Oh for sure I definitely don't want to imply that anyone was copying Apple, and something like this doesn't appear in silicon and software overnight. Instead it was an obvious need to anyone who ever did continuous sensor readings to watch their battery life take a perilous dive.

ausjke 13y ago

This is expected, wondering if kiosk mode can be supported as it's supported in chromium.

ausjke 13y ago
"Chrome for Android supports a few features which aren't enabled in the WebView, including: WebGL 3D canvas WebRTC WebAudio Fullscreen API Form validation" Since Fullscreen API is unsupported, so no Kiosk.

devx 13y ago

Some new design stuff, too: https://plus.google.com/u/0/+RomanNurik/posts/EURexV9yF32 https://plus.google.com/u/0/+RomanNurik/posts/EURexV9yF32 http://phandroid.com/2013/10/31/android-kit-kat-videos/ http://phandroid.com/2013/10/31/android-kit-kat-videos/

maaarghk 13y ago

"Host card emulation" -- Does this mean I can "upload" my NFC bank cards and transport card and have my phone emulate them? If so that is -freaking awesome-.

thrillgore 13y ago
That would be cool as crap. And quickly the subject of all sorts of hell across the board.
mpclark 13y ago
Not quite, but everyone and his brother will be able to start issuing NFC 'cards' that work with existing contactless terminals. Think PayPal, Square, your favourite loyalty programmes etc etc. And there's no need to negotiate/buy access to secure elements, or get involved with TSMs etc -- as long as the issuer looks after its own security. This is going to blow NFC wide open :)
- maaarghk 13y ago
  Hey does this mean that if a Bitcoin exchange gets a hold of an AID then they could write an app that would let me use my phone to pay with bitcoin at an existing contactless terminal? Like, apps can emulate contactless cards, but you can't necessarily upload existing cards you mean? Sorry, I just don't quite "get" it yet I think :P
  - foley 13y ago
    BitPlastic[1] is a about as close as you can get right now. I have been working for the past year on a prototype Bitcoin smart-card compatible with existing contact less terminals, I've gone this route because I am not particularly comfortable with storing my private key on my phone. Prototype works, but lets just say it needs a lot more work. Not sure whether to continue with, for anything like this to have any adoption by retailers the entire Bitcoin community needs to get behind one standard. That is the Bitcoin Payment Protocol[2] which is incompatible with my approach. The Bitcoin Payment Protocol will with the new Android 4.4 changes. 1. https://bitplastic.com/ https://bitplastic.com/ 2. https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/BIP_0070 https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/BIP_0070

rsynnott 13y ago

> zRAM integrated into stock kernel 2013 definitely seems to be the year of memory compression.

kuida0r3 13y ago

Wonder if this means alert dialogs will start showing up from ads in embedded webviews. Window.alert() didn't work in Android's webview and the WebChrome client was the workaround. https://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=752 https://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=752

lambda 13y ago

Did anyone else get a Google internal link for "Chrome DevTools" that gives you an internal Google login page? https://devsite.googleplex.com/chrome-developer-tools/docs/remote-debugging#debugging-webviews https://devsite.googleplex.com/chrome-developer-tools/docs/r... I clicked on that link and got a page that says "moma: inside google. Single Sign On" and asks for a Google login, password, and OTP. It also appears to display a random image; I wonder if that random image is used as part of the authentication process, perhaps as an authenticator that this is a valid Google login page (perhaps something you can verify with your OTP device).

mdwelsh 13y ago
That seems busted. I'll see if I can get someone to fix it.
igrigorik 13y ago
Doh! On it.. In the meantime, this is the link you want: https://developers.google.com/chrome-developer-tools/docs/remote-debugging#debugging-webviews https://developers.google.com/chrome-developer-tools/docs/re...