10 ms·

Winter is coming

253 points by jaf12duke 13y ago

palidanx 13y ago
What is super bizarre is after I had some blood work done, the doctor said I was deficient in Vitamin D and I live in Southern California. He further continued, that we often are indoors most of the time, and even when we go outside we cover up and don't get much direct exposure. Adding to the further craziness, I asked several of my friends of their vitamin d levels and they said they were deficient also.
- jaf12duke 13y ago
  I was living in Colorado, which has 300 days of sunshine a year. But the same thing happened. It was cold in the winter, even if sunny. So whenever I was out in the sun, my skin was covered completely,
  - jsonne 13y ago
    That's interesting. I just moved to Colorado a year and I definitely noticed an uptick in my mood. I still take a vitamin D supplement, but I'm finding I'm having a much more consistently higher mood in the winter months than I did in Iowa.
- graham1776 13y ago
  Live in Newport Beach, same thing happens to me, sitting inside from sunup to sundown. The one time a month I go to the beach I'm always "How have I not been outside for this long? Why do I even live here?"
jdmitch 13y ago
Does taking vitamin D3 supplements really work for the OP? There have been a number of HN posts about how the vitamin fad started by Linus Pauling has not been backed up scientifically, such as this one: http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/07/the-vitamin-myth-why-we-think-we-need-supplements/277947/?1 http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/07/the-vitami... but maybe there is more to it when it comes to SAD...
- alexandros 13y ago
  vitamin C hyperdosing and vitamin D supplementation are entirely different topics.
- jaf12duke 13y ago
  OP here. I'll give a qualified yes. It's hard to actually know which action I take has the most effect. Vitamin D, bright lights, exercise all play a role. I've found it's important to try everything and hope for the best. If I were to pick just one thing to do though, it would be the bright lights in the morning. I know for sure that those work. Not only for myself, but for many other people who have given it a try.
  - ozh 13y ago
    Yes, fixing your Vitamin D level gives a very effective boost, however it is absolutely not harmless to consume too much vit D as the article implies. More: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypervitaminosis_D http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypervitaminosis_D
    - teach 13y ago
      Hypervitaminosis D is incredibly rare. Taking 1000 IU per day ought to be harmless for literally everyone. Even 10,000 IU per day is WAY below toxicity.
      - simonhughes22 13y ago
        You are missing the point. Above a certain level, the negative side effects start out weighing the positive affects. So just because something is not close to toxicity, does not mean it is actually having a net benefit on your health. With vitamins, take the recommended dosage, or preferably slightly less, as it is likely you are getting at least something from your diet, not matter how poor. Anything above that is likely to start having negative effects that start to outweigh any benefits. Most adults get sufficient vitamins and minerals from their diet, even a poor western diet. Vitamin D however, is the exception if you don't get enough sun.
Raphmedia 13y ago
Sunrise today: 7:29 AM, Sunset today: 5:46 PM. (In Montreal) Things are good now, but in a little while, it is going to set at 4PM. Goodbye sun. I recently got one of those sunrise alarm clock. Let's see if it helps.
- richardlblair 13y ago
  Ottawa reporting in. Hell is about to come upon us, friend. Buckle down, I have a feeling this winter is going to be a rough one.
aboodman 13y ago
I grew up in Southern California, and feel like that might be part of why the two long grey winters in sf each year affect me worse than my friends. I found that a good antidote to the second winter was making snowboarding a more serious hobby. It had been something I'd done a few times when I was younger, but it was too far away to do regularly. Here in the bay area though, a weekend of sun, beer, adventure, exercise, and hottubbing are only 3 hours away. And it turns the winter into something to look forward to.
- vonmoltke 13y ago
  I had a similar experience moving from Ft. Lauderdale to Dallas. The contrast was made even more interesting because many of the people I worked with when I moved out here originally came from northern climes, with a few coming from places where snowfall is measured in feet instead of inches. I have adapted to it, mainly because North Texas winters tend to be sunny and dry. I would still rather be back in South Florida, though. Winter was actually the best time to be outside there.
  - xradionut 13y ago
    Winter isn't that bad in North Texas. At worst we'll have a ice or snow storm once every decade that will shut the area down for a day or two. It's a great time for exercising outdoors and catching up on sleep. My dog loves the weather change, makes for longer walks in a cooler clime.
    - vonmoltke 13y ago
      Its not, but you are talking to someone for whom the dead of winter was a low 40 for a few nights prior to moving out here. The snow and ice I actually like, mainly because it is infrequent.
300bps 13y ago
Check your D3 levels About 5 years ago, my doctor randomly tested me for Vitamin D levels. My level was about 20 ng/ml where you should be at least 30 ng/ml and likely closer to 40 ng/ml. My doctor recommended that I start taking 1,000 I.U. of Vitamin D3 per day which I did. For fun I looked up the problems that can be caused by having insufficient Vitamin D: http://www.webmd.com/food-recipes/vitamin-d-deficiency http://www.webmd.com/food-recipes/vitamin-d-deficiency Heart disease, cognitive impairment, asthma, cancer, etc. Yeah - cancer. In addition, a Vitamin D deficiency can actually cause back pain. That was my only major symptom. It's been 5 years and I haven't had a back pain episode since I started taking Vitamin D. Anecdotal, of course. But my levels are where they should be now and I just take one tiny Vitamin D3 pill per day.
- richardlblair 13y ago
  Officially scared. Booking blood work appointment now...
- TallGuyShort 13y ago
  Well, Web MD tells me I probably have cancer pretty often. In some places you can't even buy household goods, eat at a restaurant, or fill your car up with gas without warnings that you're probably getting cancer right that very minute.
randywaterhouse 13y ago
I've found myself in a similar position, in the past (although not for a few years). SAD is a real thing, and it has actual physical consequences. I remember when I had it I would change my workout routine (read: go from running daily to running weekly... Maybe... Okay once a month). Which would only further affect me as I experienced the effects of reduced exercise, and those endorphins were seriously missed. Definitely following some of the advice in the article helps, although I never did any supplements. I've beaten it by surrounding myself with a fun group of people both professionally and personally, and I keep my eye on the prize (whatever project I'm doing for work). Putting my head down and working hard is definitely a great antidote for me, although I know if might not work for everyone (it might make things worse!). I found that with a specific professional goal in mind I could get up easier, go to the gym easier, go to the office earlier, and get through my projects more efficiently. Make a routine and keep on pushing!
fein 13y ago
Complaining about the winter in SF? Really? I understand seasonal depression, but that can't even hold a candle to the bullshit we see up here in the Great Salted North. I wake up and bike to work during the winters here... It's pitch black until after 8 AM. After work? Darkness and cold by 5 PM. This is for around 5 months of the year up here. Sure, shit gets annoying during the nastiness of November through March, but you get through it. A winter in SF would be a vacation. Edit: Didn't mean to be incendiary here, just wanted to put things in perspective.
- jaf12duke 13y ago
  The important comparison is not the cause but the outcome. I've lived in Boston, New Hampshire, Scotland, and San Francisco. And in each, I've suffered from seasonal depression. A winter depression in any city is no vacation.
  - fein 13y ago
    My sister has issues with SAD, and she lives in Texas. I don't know if it just went unrecognized while she lived here, or everyone else is just so bitter during that time that it's just the norm. It seems the folks I know with SAD issues are from very temperate zones, which makes no sense to me when I know what I have to do the next day: trudge through 17 degree F temperatures at 7 AM on a bicycle.
    - mrbill 13y ago
      I live in Houston, and have problems with SAD. Even though I absolutely love fall/winter and colder temperatures, I've been very in-the-dumps lately as our local weather transitions to what counts as "winter" here. Need to start taking VitD again. For reference, I grew up in southwestern Oklahoma (far enough north to have snow and winters where the cold/ice was a problem), and lived in Austin from 1996-2005.
    - KeliNorth 13y ago
      My Mother has SAD, suffered for years with it in various parts of CA (too much gloom during winter, even though the days were long and sunny spring-autumns), but now lives in a northern mid-west state. We discovered that SAD doesn't affect her as much there for a couple reasons we can only guess at. The sun was out more often even on bone-chilling days, and the snow on the ground reflecting the light was far, far better for her than the gloomy rainy winter days of CA. It was a nice surprise that a colder/Winter state was better for her particular SAD. Seems very counter-intuitive at first, but sometimes an individual's needs aren't so clear. And I just gotta reiterate... the snow reflecting more light into a home, combined with it adding the whole ambiance of a Winter look (rather than the sight of gloom or leafless plants in a more temperate state during winter) seems to have a real beneficial effect. Of course, individual results will vary, this only works for one particular case, but it's still of interest how SAD works and affects each person.
joshuapayne 13y ago
This is one of the reason I ski living in Boston. Granted I can't do it on a daily basis, but I get outside on the weekends and get some sunshine. I can notice the pickup.
sdoering 13y ago
Living in northern Germany (read Hamburg) I can only agree. That last winter here was very difficult for me, too. Especially the long, grey and dark weeks, without so much than a glimpse of sunshine. Not very good for me. What has helped me, at least a little bit, was, that I started dancing again. Having someone else, who's "training" depends on you makes it less likely, that you do not go. And dancing is quite actually really strenuous, if done right and a lot of fun. I learned to listen to my body, learned to feel my body better and now have at least two days a week, when I come home relaxed, lucky-exhausted. But not everything is good. I feel, that "winter is coming". I can feel the energy withdrawing to a place deep inside me. I feel like curling up and preparing for hibernation. But that is not possible. I have to do my best at work everyday. So hibernating is not an option ;-) So I wish all of you out there well. Be it SAD or be it "just" the "winter blues" be well and take care of yourself.
- memracom 13y ago
  To all those who thought that this was about latitude, read the above post again. ... long, grey and dark weeks... The experience of people living in coastal cities is often a lot worse than the experience of lucky northerners living in Calgary, Edmonton or Fort McMurray. Those northerners can put on their parkas and go outside at lunchtime to enjoy the glorious sunshine even though it is 35 below zero. And I didn't mention Celsius or Fahrenheit because at those low temperatures it makes little difference. I know of what I speak, having lived in Calgary where I followed a daily lunchtime ritual of going outside, starting the car engine and driving around for 30 minutes to warm it up. If I had not done that, I would have been unable to start the engine at the end of the workday. Not everyone has the luxury of an electric outlet in the parking lot at their workplace. And I have also worked in London England, not that far from the same North Sea that is next to Hamburg. And there I experienced the endless weeks of overcast skies with no sunshine whatsoever and a succession of rain and drizzle. While I haven't lived in SF, I have been there several times in the winter and noticed that every day seems to start out overcast with thick fog and cloud overhead. That would shorten the day enough to give anyone S.A.D.
- davidw 13y ago
  > So hibernating is not an option I've been complaining about this lately. I would love to just wake up in March, walking out, blinking, into the sunshine. Maybe I'll try one of those lights, that looks like a good idea.
16s 13y ago
Not only are more people depressed, but more actually die during the winter too: http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/01/06/winter-kills-excess-deaths-in-the-winter-months/ http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/01/06/winter-kills-excess-de...
pimeys 13y ago
I have the same problem, but this winter I decided to fight it and take a six week vacation to Thailand in the worst months. I hope this helps to fight the depression, because I've never tried to take a vacation that long in the middle of winter.
AhtiK 13y ago
Does anyone have experience with either Philips goLITE [1] or Wake-Up light [2]? I wonder which of these will be more effective (blue vs warm yellow). Alternatively, has anyone managed to build such a device at home? AFAIK 470 nm wavelength LEDs are the way to go but getting 10k lux out of the grid.. [1] http://www.amazon.com/Philips-goLITE-BLU-Therapy-Device/dp/B001I45XL8/ http://www.amazon.com/Philips-goLITE-BLU-Therapy-Device/dp/B... [2] http://www.amazon.com/Philips-HF3520-Wake-Up-Colored-Simulation/dp/B0093162RM/ http://www.amazon.com/Philips-HF3520-Wake-Up-Colored-Simulat...
- joshkaufman 13y ago
  I have the Philips goLITE, and highly recommend it. The blue wavelength makes a noticeable difference. It runs off of a rechargeable battery, which is very handy if you move around the house/office in the morning. It's also small enough to use as a travel alarm clock, and I've found using it makes it much easier to shift time zones.
  - AhtiK 13y ago
    Thank you. How well does it fit into your morning routine? Do you have to stare straight to the goLITE right after waking up or would it work just by keeping it next to the breakfast table or next to the bed?
    - joshkaufman 13y ago
      You don't need to stare at it - I usually keep off to the side of whatever I'm doing. As long as you can see it in your peripheral vision, it works. I usually set mine for 60 minutes, and it shuts off automatically.
- mhewett 13y ago
  I purchased the Lightphoria 10,000 Lux light and used it last winter for the first time (I'm in my 50s). It had a slight, but noticeable effect on my mood. I pointed it at the ceiling for 30 minutes while I got dressed in the morning. It definitely seemed to help. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004JF3G08 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004JF3G08
critium 13y ago
I know somebody that is actually diagnosed with this and its a serious condition. Am I the only person that thinks that having the acronymn SAD is actually counterproductive? I mean, kind of sounds like a bad joke right?
VLM 13y ago
On a side tangent resulting in similar (edited: milder) symptoms, for decades I've noticed the typical westerner calendar is extremely lopsided. June thru December is one holiday per month if not more, where you can take a vacation and not stress about whats going on back at work, in comparison the other half of the year January thru June has ... basically no time off. Oh you can take a vacation day, you'll just have two days of junk in your inbox tomorrow, and that makes stress worse not better. I get slightly depressed in January for a couple weeks with the realization that my next day off is pretty much Memorial Day weekend at the end of May. That's a long time to go without a break, especially after spending the second half of the year never working more than about 3 weeks without yet another holiday. That's why I don't think the articles advice to go on a vacation is useful. WRT stress reduction all you'll end up with when taking a vacation in the first half of the year is getting paged/called by everyone still at work and you'll have an overflowing inbox. In comparison, during the other half of the year you don't even need to spend vacation days to get long weekends and slow work weeks. 90% of the company takes friday after thanksgiving off, I may as well take it off too. So to reiterate one last time I'm talking about something that happens at the same time of year with vaguely similar symptoms for a completely different reason (or maybe not?) than the discussion of low D3 vitamins or whatever... although I'm sure the lack of holidays does not help those suffering from medical issues.
- Pxtl 13y ago
  What about Good Friday (and the gov't holiday of Easter Monday if you're in that field)? Anyhow, to counter this we get a day in February called "Family Day" here in Ontario - one of the much-maligned Ontario Liberal Party's better ideas.
  - VLM 13y ago
    I don't work in a Catholic country so no federal holiday. For the operations people, Easter Sunday isn't even recognized as an official company holiday, much less Good Friday or Ash Wednesday. There is Valentines day which if you're hetronormative and a girl must be a lot of fun, but for us guys its pretty much just an expensive stressful (or lonely?) PITA. I could do without it, happily. Arbor day doesn't cut it either. Yo dude its Arbor Day lets go out and get drunk! Uh yeah you go do that and hug a tree for me.
jeltz 13y ago
I wonder what causes it since the variations in sunlight are tiny in SF (shortest day = 9.5 hours) compared to for example Stockholm (shortest day = 6 hours).
- GrinningFool 13y ago
  Variations being comparatively small doesn't make them tiny. Shortest day in SF is 9.5 hours. Longest day in SF is 14.75 hours. That's a significant difference. In comparison to Stockholm (6/18.5) it doesn't appear significant - but it's in no way tiny.
robotmay 13y ago
I have a somewhat opposite problem; I can't work at all during the summer. I can't deal with heat well and can barely think straight if I get even slightly too warm. This summer in the UK was unbearable in my new flat, which appears to have been designed as the most effective greenhouse in the world. I always look forward to autumn and winter. I get to wear clothes I like, nobody's outside as they're all whinging about the rain, and I feel a sort of melancholy bliss when I'm sat indoors whilst it's raining. It's one of the main reasons why I still live in Wales rather than somewhere like SF.
- xwowsersx 13y ago
  Hehe, totally hear that. You remind me of these hilarious tweets: https://twitter.com/SoVeryBritish/ https://twitter.com/SoVeryBritish/
  - robotmay 13y ago
    My partner follows that; it's quite hard to tell the difference between that account and most people over here though. We're oddly predictable complainers!
- padolsey 13y ago
  I agree. Autumn and Winter in the UK are beautiful and I share that same melancholy bliss. I think my ideal living/working conditions are probably: hot beverage, crackling fire, rain outside, jazz playing in the background.
  - robotmay 13y ago
    If only I had a fireplace; one of the main things I really miss whilst living in a flat. And jazz + rain is a superb combination, although I've found that discovering good jazz is one of the most difficult tasks I've ever attempted; just when you think you're on to something, BAM! Improvised trombone.
- mixmastamyk 13y ago
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Awning http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Awning Awnings are perfect for this problem. In a pinch, Aluminium foil works as well.
johndl 13y ago
I've experienced this too, not just in winter. I live in Scotland, and the weather is mostly wet and damp (rain on ~2 out of 3 days of the year). This year we had a glorious summer. I got productive work done in a single month in June than the entire first 5 months of the year.
mkingston 13y ago
Skiing. (Or snowboarding. Or ice climbing. Or mountaineering. For those in milder climates: mountain biking) The take-home point is: get a great winter activity to look forward to. I used to feel this way (depressed in winter), but not since I started snowboarding. I'm really looking forward to winter at the moment, having moved from the southern to northern hemisphere recently.
- cylinder 13y ago
  All of the suggestions in this thread are too expensive. A ski trip for me would require a car rental, lodging, ski rental, lift fees and such, easily over $1,000 for a couple over a weekend. The light products, too, seem too expensive. Are there not 10,000 lux bulbs I can buy and stick into a socket? I don't need a "device."
  - mkingston 13y ago
    Skiing is expensive, I agree. But less so if you own the equipment. The same goes for a range of other activities. Mountain biking is probably one of the best value-for-money winter sports I can think of in the UK (where I live) and NZ (where I'm from). One reasonably large expense up-front followed by low-cost or free access to various trails in various parks, and reasonably low equipment maintenance costs. Hiking is another alternative. Though it's not really something to look forward to in winter specifically; and if you can't enjoy it in summer, you probably won't in winter. Slightly lower up-front costs (some microfleece clothes and a good waterproof coat and hiking boots) but even lower transport costs. Of course both of those still come with a transport cost. If you need to avoid that as well, you should consider photography. I've found that since I've started developing some photography skills I'm never too sad about the climate- there's always something outside to try and capture nicely. And if you're able to throw in some hiking (or even walks in parks nearby) it becomes much nicer. The current season is especially fun in the UK where most of the trees (those that I've seen) are deciduous, unlike NZ. In any case, you may have to put some effort into any of these things; I didn't really enjoy winter hiking to begin with, but I've learned to really enjoy it. And, to be clear: not begrudgingly. Very enthusiastically.
VLM 13y ago
WRT "Wake-Up Light With Colored Sunrise Simulation, White" and other technological gadgets, I've a hypothesis that some people actually wake up at sunrise (like an anti-vampire I guess?) and other people do pure internal clock. Furthermore part of my hypothesis is there is a strong correlation between those types and likelihood of SAD-diagnosis. There are implications beyond SAD, such as alarm clock design. For example I can completely decouple from light input and sleep thru bright sunlight on my face if I'm tired (or drunk or hungover as I occasionally was in my youth). In fact many a time in my youth on weekends I'd come home around sunrise and fall asleep no problemo. If I used an alarm clock that simulated sunrise, I suspect I'd come into work late very often. On the other hand for SAD sufferers is the experience literally like a lightswitch like the sun rises and you are like biologically forced to wake up? If so they'd do very well indeed with a techno-gadget like this.
fjabre 13y ago
Weed got me through last winter.
protomyth 13y ago
Winter in North Dakota is interesting since you typically go to work and leave work in the dark. When you do go out during the day and drive somewhere, you typically wear sunglasses because the sunshine[1] off the snow makes it hard to drive otherwise. Unless the weather is poor (less often than you think), where you don't see the sun. The wind typically means you are not going to take any leisurely walks. 1) it is fairly sunny, but since the ground is covered in white stuff you don't get the heat absorption. Cloudy days feel less cold.
mbq 13y ago
I live in Poland and I have the opposite; for me winter is a stimulant. I don't know whether this is some remnant genetic call to survive hard times or a fact that it casts a kind of sterile aura that helps me to flow, but I'm objectively more productive then.
jotm 13y ago
I think everyone is affected by seasons - in my case, I feel down during seasons change, mostly May and October. I feel awesome during winter, I love it, summer not so much since I hate hot and humid weather (UK is pretty great during summer IMO :-D).
davewasthere 13y ago
I just switch hemispheres... problem solved. :)
jusben1369 13y ago
Many comments here are confusing issues: - It's not about relative winter temperatures - It's not about length of daylight hours during winter - It's not about what your experience is with any of the above if you don't have the disposition to begin with He's saying "If you have this pre-disposition/afflliction plan for it accordingly before it's too late (dark skies are here) That includes a) artificial interior lighting b) working 30 minutes outside into your routine somehow and c) having an escape plan that includes a week in the sun somewhere in your winter timeframe. As a side note I have lived in many places including Boston and the Bay Area. The most depressed I ever felt was during El Nino driven winters in the Bay Area. I realized I would never make it a year in Seattle. Having said that, there were only 2 or 3 of those during my 10+ years there and I've never felt anything like seasonal depression. My wife though did suffer from it when we moved to Boston (and we ultimately left because of it)
beloch 13y ago
Today's forecast for where I live is a low of -11 C and up to 20cm of snow. I couldn't be happier. The local ski-hills will open that much sooner! I actually feel a little bit sorry for those living in San Francisco. Summer goes away but you never get to enjoy real winter activities. If you're complaining about winter in SF, you should probably either move someplace warmer or someplace colder. Really, all it takes to enjoy winter is finding a winter activity you can look forward to. If you live someplace without winter, perhaps you should pick a sport to engage in only during the winter. Hell, SF must have at least one curling rink.
- tnorthcutt 13y ago
  He's not "complaining about winter". It's not the temperature; it's the (lack of) sunshine. Your second paragraph is a good suggestion. Getting outside while there is daylight will help.
- ChuckMcM 13y ago
  Summer goes away but you never get to enjoy real winter activities. You should tell that to my skiing obsessed family. There are no fewer than 10 Ski resorts in the Tahoe Basin alone, much less all along the Sierras. And they are only a few hours away by car or train. Californians often espouse the opinion that we have "well behaved" snow, it stays in the mountains where it belongs :-) But the point of getting out is always good. I try to take more walks in the winter months.
  - dasil003 13y ago
    Tahoe is basically 4 hours from SF, and up to 8 if there is fresh snow, which rules out day trips for all but the most hard-core. It's not as bad as flat land out east, but it's certainly got nothing (including snow quality) on what is available in Utah / Colorado.
- mkingston 13y ago
  Where do you live, approximately, if you don't mind me asking?
benaiah 13y ago
I live in Alaska - four+ feet of snow in the winter, 20 below or colder for months at a time, dark from 4pm to 9am, etc. Personally, winter sucks, and it keeps me inside even more than typical. It just causes problems (cars don't like the cold very much, among other things) and makes me miserable. I dread every day the temperature drops, and I'm not looking forward to snowfall.
CaptainZapp 13y ago
I suffer from SAD. I didn't know it for years too. It was just that I ran into my dark phases, but had no actual clue how, or why. It was my psychologist, who asked the pertinent question years ago: Is there some sort of pattern, or rhythm to this ordeal? Well, no shit Sherlock! It always seems to happen betwen October and March. He recommended a light and I got myself a Philips Energy Light, like 5 years ago and it makes huge difference. I still feel shitty, during most of late Autumn and early spring. But half an hour under the lamp, sipping green tea and usually reading whatever made life so much better. In addition: I'll head off for a month in Asia in January. That helps a lot too. Lack of light can seriously affect some people. This may not be a solution if you suffer from depression. Get help! If you suffer from depression. Really! I mean it! It can kill you! But for me, 30 minutes a day, under the light makes a world of a difference.
- Udo 13y ago
  > He recommended a light and I got myself a Philips Energy Light I had to look that one up and felt reminded of my internship in a psychiatric hospital where I was mostly stationed in the psychotherapy center. By far the most common problem the patients had was depression. We had a huge light panel in a dedicated room and would recommend patients just sit in front of it. I thought it was amazing how much of a difference half an our of light bath made. The staff were using it, too! This was of course in Germany where, except for a few short summer months, it's always dark and gloomy. > Asia in January When I first started traveling for business, this is what cured me as well. I always try to get in a few days extra in the Philippines when it's winter in the EU :)
- edvinbesic 13y ago
  It took me a while to. Living in Sweden it was hard in the winters. I didn't mind the cold (layer layer layer) or the snow (quite fun) but the darkness was killing me. Somebody I know recommended a quick tanning session (5-10 mins) on lowest setting once every two weeks and it made a huge difference. I know tanning is bad and all that, but so is being depressed. Now I live in Miami with plenty of light and no such issues, way more productive. Just my 2c
mbubb 13y ago
Reminded me of Ezra Pound's rewrite of Middle English Poem about summer: Ancient Music - Ezra Pound Winter is icumen in, Lhude sing Goddamm, Raineth drop and staineth slop, And how the wind doth ramm! Sing: Goddamm. Skiddeth bus and sloppeth us, An ague hath my ham. Freezeth river, turneth liver, Damm you; Sing: Goddamm. Goddamm, Goddamm, 'tis why I am, Goddamm, So 'gainst the winter's balm. Sing goddamm, damm, sing goddamm, Sing goddamm, sing goddamm, DAMM.
berntb 13y ago
As a Scandinavian, it is surprising to read people from so far, far south complaining about SAD. I've been in mid Europe for a while. The sun here in mid winter is like being clubbed in the face with a bat of sunlight. Simply wonderful. You might want to consider to eat breakfast before a daylight lamp, it helped me and others. If you guys have SAD problems in California, don't go to Sweden... (Ok, there is probably few reasons to go there even without SAD problems. :-) ) Edit: The difference might be that you don't notice how different you are in winter if you grew up in the north, like not noticing the air?
AznHisoka 13y ago
I'd be OK with the winter... but winter means horrible TV programming. It's not yet March, so no Game of Thrones. Breaking Bad just ended. And Walking Dead will go on a short hiatus.
aeflash 13y ago
FYI, every single Vitamin D supplement I've seen is just olive oil in gel capsules. You can even see it in the imaged on the amazon product page he linked. I just cook with olive oil all the time -- stir frys, eggs, meats, etc....
- bct 13y ago
  > You can even see it in the imaged on the amazon product page he linked. Olive oil is listed under "Other ingredients" on that bottle. I presume that means it's not the main ingredient. According to http://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/foods/show/631?fg=&man=&lfacet=&format=&count=&max=25&offset=&sort=&qlookup=olive+oil http://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/foods/show/631?fg=&man=&lfacet=&... olive oil contains no vitamin D.
- Dirlewanger 13y ago
  is just olive oil in gel capsules. ...additionally with Vitamin D in them.
dmourati 13y ago
As an avid skier, I have SAD but in reverse. Once the snow starts falling (as it did in Lake Tahoe this weekend) I start perking up.
dholowiski 13y ago
Obligatory mental health comment: Depression is very real, as is SAD. The article has some great suggestions on how to alleviate symptoms. However - as hackers all to often we get stuck in a 'I can hack it, I can fix it' mentality - even when it comes to our own brains. Sometimes it's just 'the blues'. Often you can 'fix' it. But sometimes you can't. If you are suffering and nothing you do seems to fix it - please - please - see a doctor. This isn't always something you can fix on your own. We can't afford to lose another hacker - not even you.
avneet 13y ago
Can't agree more. As the days get shorter and the sky gets gloomy, my mood becomes gloomier. I've been aware of this for several years now. I noticed that when I was in college that I skipped more classes during winter and had the worst grades during winter quarter. Some of the things that work for me to keep myself motivated- Exercise, waking up and repeating to myself- "what do I need to achieve today?", eating healthy, turning the heater off sometimes and keep the house as bright as possible. Awesome blogpost!
secstate 13y ago
Just finished commenting on the post about the failure of science. Can't help but comment here on a post about SAD. And I am by no means making light of things. I myself struggled with SAD while in college for a few years. It's no fun at all. That said, you know how I get through winter now? I live a lifestyle that is surprisingly similar to how my Northern European ancestors would have. And a big part of that is diet: 1. Seafood 2. Pastured animal meat/fat Along with being a software developer, I am also a hog breeder. If you raise animals, but especially hogs, on open pasture exposed to the sun, their lard becomes saturated in trace elements like vitamin D3 [1]. 1: http://www.vitamindwiki.com/%22Free+range%22+lard+has+500+IU+vitamin+D+per+teaspoon http://www.vitamindwiki.com/%22Free+range%22+lard+has+500+IU...
mixmastamyk 13y ago
Interesting post. If he's that affected, he should move to Los Angeles, where he'll get ~11.5 months of happiness and productivity per year.
- palidanx 13y ago
  Except for the ridiculous time of June gloom. For those not in LA, we get no sun from 8am-1pm mostly the entire month of June. What ends up happening is I see most people sad in the mornings until 1pm. I used to make fun of those people when I realized I was one of them.
  - mixmastamyk 13y ago
    True, though we didn't seem to have it this year, not sure why. Also, the farther you get from the beach the thinner it gets.
Too 13y ago
Does staring into two bright 24" monitors 8h per day help?
- lhc- 13y ago
  Unfortuneately, montitor light does not have much in common with Sunlight, and doesn't seem to have any positive effect.
- sandstrom 13y ago
  Only 8h? :)
noir_lord 13y ago
I'm the opposite of this, I long for summer to be over and love the coming of the Winter. I hate heat (fortunately I live in the North of England so it's not that frequent) far more than I hate the cold or dark. In winter time I burrow in and get far more done (plus nothing beats going cycling on a road bike in the country at night when it's -5C, crystal clear and you can see stars so close you could reach out and touch them). I actually dread the Summer.
j03w 13y ago
Would moving overseas help then? Winter in US is summer in downunder.
sirkneeland 13y ago
Well I guess moving to Finland is out of the question for the author...
bluekite2000 13y ago
Someone should start an endless summer club. Get a group of people together and work for 6 months in San Francisco then go South (Buenos Aires or sth equivalent) when winter comes.
simonhughes22 13y ago
I would recommend a much lower dosage of Vitamin D3 than the extreme high dosage (5,000 IU) on that Amazon site. While it is important to maintain reasonable levels of D3, higher levels can cause a range of problems, from kidney stones to increased risk of heart problems due to the raised calcium levels in your blood. The Linus Pauling institute recommends 600 IU, just over 1/8th the dosage of that link. People overdose on Vitamins these days, and are simply unaware that large dosages of vitamins can do far more harm than good. A little is good so more is better is a logical fallacy, yet a lot of people think this way. So I applaud you for bringing this to people's attention, but please recommend safer Vitamin D3 levels.
- simonhughes22 13y ago
  It is worth pointing out that it depends on your age, your deficiency level, and whether you are pregnant. Here is a good article from the Mayo clinic: http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/vitamin-d/NS_patient-vitamind/DSECTION=dosing http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/vitamin-d/NS_patient-vitami...
  - simonhughes22 13y ago
    Here is a link to 1,000 IU dosage: http://www.amazon.com/NOW-Foods-Vitamin-1000-Softgels/dp/B000A0LE6O/ref=sr_1_1?s=hpc&ie=UTF8&qid=1383002971&sr=1-1&keywords=vitamin+d3+1000+iu http://www.amazon.com/NOW-Foods-Vitamin-1000-Softgels/dp/B00... You may want to opt for the 600 IU if you get some sun as it is. I live in Chicago, so no much sun for me in Winter time.
philsnow 13y ago
> how many days in a row did you go without getting at least half-an-hour of direct bright sunlight One of my major life goals is maximizing this number. I'd get a good peeling burn if I let myself sit out in the sun like that.
cmccabe 13y ago
Pretty much everywhere in the San Francisco bay area is sunny year round, except San Francisco itself. So if you have seasonal affective disorder, you could always just live in the east or south bay during the winter months. As a bonus you'd save on rent.
peterwwillis 13y ago
The most depressing thing about this post: > Buy some lights > You want to get lights that are at least 5,000 lux and preferably 10,000 lux. I recommend checking out Biobrite – that’s your first stop with the Per3 and the Philips light products as secondary options. Anything that doesn’t explicitly say it is either 5,000 or 10,000 lux is not going to do the job of stimulating serotonin. GO. THE. FUCK. OUTSIDE. Wake the fuck up, as soon as the sun starts to peek out, and stay outside until you feel awake and full of life. Then go back to your rectangular cave and hide out. Until lunch time, when you go the fuck outside again. Wear a thermal t-shirt and shorts and run a mile. Then go back to your cave again. Before the sun sets, go outside once more and watch the sunset, preferably in a jog. Serotonin my ass. You're feeling the pressure of human society weighing you down, and winter is a reminder of your own mortality. Go outside and look at a lake surrounded by leafless trees, sip some hot tea, and think about how beautiful it all is. (and then remember and be thankful that you're not stuck in Florida, but maybe that's just me)

253 points by jaf12duke 13y ago

What is super bizarre is after I had some blood work done, the doctor said I was deficient in Vitamin D and I live in Southern California. He further continued, that we often are indoors most of the time, and even when we go outside we cover up and don't get much direct exposure. Adding to the further craziness, I asked several of my friends of their vitamin d levels and they said they were deficient also.

jaf12duke 13y ago
I was living in Colorado, which has 300 days of sunshine a year. But the same thing happened. It was cold in the winter, even if sunny. So whenever I was out in the sun, my skin was covered completely,
- jsonne 13y ago
  That's interesting. I just moved to Colorado a year and I definitely noticed an uptick in my mood. I still take a vitamin D supplement, but I'm finding I'm having a much more consistently higher mood in the winter months than I did in Iowa.
graham1776 13y ago
Live in Newport Beach, same thing happens to me, sitting inside from sunup to sundown. The one time a month I go to the beach I'm always "How have I not been outside for this long? Why do I even live here?"

jdmitch 13y ago

Does taking vitamin D3 supplements really work for the OP? There have been a number of HN posts about how the vitamin fad started by Linus Pauling has not been backed up scientifically, such as this one: http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/07/the-vitamin-myth-why-we-think-we-need-supplements/277947/?1 http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/07/the-vitami... but maybe there is more to it when it comes to SAD...

alexandros 13y ago
vitamin C hyperdosing and vitamin D supplementation are entirely different topics.
jaf12duke 13y ago
OP here. I'll give a qualified yes. It's hard to actually know which action I take has the most effect. Vitamin D, bright lights, exercise all play a role. I've found it's important to try everything and hope for the best. If I were to pick just one thing to do though, it would be the bright lights in the morning. I know for sure that those work. Not only for myself, but for many other people who have given it a try.
- ozh 13y ago
  Yes, fixing your Vitamin D level gives a very effective boost, however it is absolutely not harmless to consume too much vit D as the article implies. More: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypervitaminosis_D http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypervitaminosis_D
  - teach 13y ago
    Hypervitaminosis D is incredibly rare. Taking 1000 IU per day ought to be harmless for literally everyone. Even 10,000 IU per day is WAY below toxicity.
    - simonhughes22 13y ago
      You are missing the point. Above a certain level, the negative side effects start out weighing the positive affects. So just because something is not close to toxicity, does not mean it is actually having a net benefit on your health. With vitamins, take the recommended dosage, or preferably slightly less, as it is likely you are getting at least something from your diet, not matter how poor. Anything above that is likely to start having negative effects that start to outweigh any benefits. Most adults get sufficient vitamins and minerals from their diet, even a poor western diet. Vitamin D however, is the exception if you don't get enough sun.

Raphmedia 13y ago

Sunrise today: 7:29 AM, Sunset today: 5:46 PM. (In Montreal) Things are good now, but in a little while, it is going to set at 4PM. Goodbye sun. I recently got one of those sunrise alarm clock. Let's see if it helps.

richardlblair 13y ago
Ottawa reporting in. Hell is about to come upon us, friend. Buckle down, I have a feeling this winter is going to be a rough one.

aboodman 13y ago

I grew up in Southern California, and feel like that might be part of why the two long grey winters in sf each year affect me worse than my friends. I found that a good antidote to the second winter was making snowboarding a more serious hobby. It had been something I'd done a few times when I was younger, but it was too far away to do regularly. Here in the bay area though, a weekend of sun, beer, adventure, exercise, and hottubbing are only 3 hours away. And it turns the winter into something to look forward to.

vonmoltke 13y ago
I had a similar experience moving from Ft. Lauderdale to Dallas. The contrast was made even more interesting because many of the people I worked with when I moved out here originally came from northern climes, with a few coming from places where snowfall is measured in feet instead of inches. I have adapted to it, mainly because North Texas winters tend to be sunny and dry. I would still rather be back in South Florida, though. Winter was actually the best time to be outside there.
- xradionut 13y ago
  Winter isn't that bad in North Texas. At worst we'll have a ice or snow storm once every decade that will shut the area down for a day or two. It's a great time for exercising outdoors and catching up on sleep. My dog loves the weather change, makes for longer walks in a cooler clime.
  - vonmoltke 13y ago
    Its not, but you are talking to someone for whom the dead of winter was a low 40 for a few nights prior to moving out here. The snow and ice I actually like, mainly because it is infrequent.

300bps 13y ago

Check your D3 levels About 5 years ago, my doctor randomly tested me for Vitamin D levels. My level was about 20 ng/ml where you should be at least 30 ng/ml and likely closer to 40 ng/ml. My doctor recommended that I start taking 1,000 I.U. of Vitamin D3 per day which I did. For fun I looked up the problems that can be caused by having insufficient Vitamin D: http://www.webmd.com/food-recipes/vitamin-d-deficiency http://www.webmd.com/food-recipes/vitamin-d-deficiency Heart disease, cognitive impairment, asthma, cancer, etc. Yeah - cancer. In addition, a Vitamin D deficiency can actually cause back pain. That was my only major symptom. It's been 5 years and I haven't had a back pain episode since I started taking Vitamin D. Anecdotal, of course. But my levels are where they should be now and I just take one tiny Vitamin D3 pill per day.

richardlblair 13y ago
Officially scared. Booking blood work appointment now...
TallGuyShort 13y ago
Well, Web MD tells me I probably have cancer pretty often. In some places you can't even buy household goods, eat at a restaurant, or fill your car up with gas without warnings that you're probably getting cancer right that very minute.

randywaterhouse 13y ago

I've found myself in a similar position, in the past (although not for a few years). SAD is a real thing, and it has actual physical consequences. I remember when I had it I would change my workout routine (read: go from running daily to running weekly... Maybe... Okay once a month). Which would only further affect me as I experienced the effects of reduced exercise, and those endorphins were seriously missed. Definitely following some of the advice in the article helps, although I never did any supplements. I've beaten it by surrounding myself with a fun group of people both professionally and personally, and I keep my eye on the prize (whatever project I'm doing for work). Putting my head down and working hard is definitely a great antidote for me, although I know if might not work for everyone (it might make things worse!). I found that with a specific professional goal in mind I could get up easier, go to the gym easier, go to the office earlier, and get through my projects more efficiently. Make a routine and keep on pushing!

fein 13y ago

Complaining about the winter in SF? Really? I understand seasonal depression, but that can't even hold a candle to the bullshit we see up here in the Great Salted North. I wake up and bike to work during the winters here... It's pitch black until after 8 AM. After work? Darkness and cold by 5 PM. This is for around 5 months of the year up here. Sure, shit gets annoying during the nastiness of November through March, but you get through it. A winter in SF would be a vacation. Edit: Didn't mean to be incendiary here, just wanted to put things in perspective.

jaf12duke 13y ago
The important comparison is not the cause but the outcome. I've lived in Boston, New Hampshire, Scotland, and San Francisco. And in each, I've suffered from seasonal depression. A winter depression in any city is no vacation.
- fein 13y ago
  My sister has issues with SAD, and she lives in Texas. I don't know if it just went unrecognized while she lived here, or everyone else is just so bitter during that time that it's just the norm. It seems the folks I know with SAD issues are from very temperate zones, which makes no sense to me when I know what I have to do the next day: trudge through 17 degree F temperatures at 7 AM on a bicycle.
  - mrbill 13y ago
    I live in Houston, and have problems with SAD. Even though I absolutely love fall/winter and colder temperatures, I've been very in-the-dumps lately as our local weather transitions to what counts as "winter" here. Need to start taking VitD again. For reference, I grew up in southwestern Oklahoma (far enough north to have snow and winters where the cold/ice was a problem), and lived in Austin from 1996-2005.
  - KeliNorth 13y ago
    My Mother has SAD, suffered for years with it in various parts of CA (too much gloom during winter, even though the days were long and sunny spring-autumns), but now lives in a northern mid-west state. We discovered that SAD doesn't affect her as much there for a couple reasons we can only guess at. The sun was out more often even on bone-chilling days, and the snow on the ground reflecting the light was far, far better for her than the gloomy rainy winter days of CA. It was a nice surprise that a colder/Winter state was better for her particular SAD. Seems very counter-intuitive at first, but sometimes an individual's needs aren't so clear. And I just gotta reiterate... the snow reflecting more light into a home, combined with it adding the whole ambiance of a Winter look (rather than the sight of gloom or leafless plants in a more temperate state during winter) seems to have a real beneficial effect. Of course, individual results will vary, this only works for one particular case, but it's still of interest how SAD works and affects each person.

joshuapayne 13y ago

This is one of the reason I ski living in Boston. Granted I can't do it on a daily basis, but I get outside on the weekends and get some sunshine. I can notice the pickup.

sdoering 13y ago

Living in northern Germany (read Hamburg) I can only agree. That last winter here was very difficult for me, too. Especially the long, grey and dark weeks, without so much than a glimpse of sunshine. Not very good for me. What has helped me, at least a little bit, was, that I started dancing again. Having someone else, who's "training" depends on you makes it less likely, that you do not go. And dancing is quite actually really strenuous, if done right and a lot of fun. I learned to listen to my body, learned to feel my body better and now have at least two days a week, when I come home relaxed, lucky-exhausted. But not everything is good. I feel, that "winter is coming". I can feel the energy withdrawing to a place deep inside me. I feel like curling up and preparing for hibernation. But that is not possible. I have to do my best at work everyday. So hibernating is not an option ;-) So I wish all of you out there well. Be it SAD or be it "just" the "winter blues" be well and take care of yourself.

memracom 13y ago
To all those who thought that this was about latitude, read the above post again. ... long, grey and dark weeks... The experience of people living in coastal cities is often a lot worse than the experience of lucky northerners living in Calgary, Edmonton or Fort McMurray. Those northerners can put on their parkas and go outside at lunchtime to enjoy the glorious sunshine even though it is 35 below zero. And I didn't mention Celsius or Fahrenheit because at those low temperatures it makes little difference. I know of what I speak, having lived in Calgary where I followed a daily lunchtime ritual of going outside, starting the car engine and driving around for 30 minutes to warm it up. If I had not done that, I would have been unable to start the engine at the end of the workday. Not everyone has the luxury of an electric outlet in the parking lot at their workplace. And I have also worked in London England, not that far from the same North Sea that is next to Hamburg. And there I experienced the endless weeks of overcast skies with no sunshine whatsoever and a succession of rain and drizzle. While I haven't lived in SF, I have been there several times in the winter and noticed that every day seems to start out overcast with thick fog and cloud overhead. That would shorten the day enough to give anyone S.A.D.
davidw 13y ago
> So hibernating is not an option I've been complaining about this lately. I would love to just wake up in March, walking out, blinking, into the sunshine. Maybe I'll try one of those lights, that looks like a good idea.

16s 13y ago

Not only are more people depressed, but more actually die during the winter too: http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/01/06/winter-kills-excess-deaths-in-the-winter-months/ http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/01/06/winter-kills-excess-de...

pimeys 13y ago

I have the same problem, but this winter I decided to fight it and take a six week vacation to Thailand in the worst months. I hope this helps to fight the depression, because I've never tried to take a vacation that long in the middle of winter.

AhtiK 13y ago

Does anyone have experience with either Philips goLITE [1] or Wake-Up light [2]? I wonder which of these will be more effective (blue vs warm yellow). Alternatively, has anyone managed to build such a device at home? AFAIK 470 nm wavelength LEDs are the way to go but getting 10k lux out of the grid.. [1] http://www.amazon.com/Philips-goLITE-BLU-Therapy-Device/dp/B001I45XL8/ http://www.amazon.com/Philips-goLITE-BLU-Therapy-Device/dp/B... [2] http://www.amazon.com/Philips-HF3520-Wake-Up-Colored-Simulation/dp/B0093162RM/ http://www.amazon.com/Philips-HF3520-Wake-Up-Colored-Simulat...

joshkaufman 13y ago
I have the Philips goLITE, and highly recommend it. The blue wavelength makes a noticeable difference. It runs off of a rechargeable battery, which is very handy if you move around the house/office in the morning. It's also small enough to use as a travel alarm clock, and I've found using it makes it much easier to shift time zones.
- AhtiK 13y ago
  Thank you. How well does it fit into your morning routine? Do you have to stare straight to the goLITE right after waking up or would it work just by keeping it next to the breakfast table or next to the bed?
  - joshkaufman 13y ago
    You don't need to stare at it - I usually keep off to the side of whatever I'm doing. As long as you can see it in your peripheral vision, it works. I usually set mine for 60 minutes, and it shuts off automatically.
mhewett 13y ago
I purchased the Lightphoria 10,000 Lux light and used it last winter for the first time (I'm in my 50s). It had a slight, but noticeable effect on my mood. I pointed it at the ceiling for 30 minutes while I got dressed in the morning. It definitely seemed to help. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004JF3G08 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004JF3G08

critium 13y ago

I know somebody that is actually diagnosed with this and its a serious condition. Am I the only person that thinks that having the acronymn SAD is actually counterproductive? I mean, kind of sounds like a bad joke right?

VLM 13y ago

On a side tangent resulting in similar (edited: milder) symptoms, for decades I've noticed the typical westerner calendar is extremely lopsided. June thru December is one holiday per month if not more, where you can take a vacation and not stress about whats going on back at work, in comparison the other half of the year January thru June has ... basically no time off. Oh you can take a vacation day, you'll just have two days of junk in your inbox tomorrow, and that makes stress worse not better. I get slightly depressed in January for a couple weeks with the realization that my next day off is pretty much Memorial Day weekend at the end of May. That's a long time to go without a break, especially after spending the second half of the year never working more than about 3 weeks without yet another holiday. That's why I don't think the articles advice to go on a vacation is useful. WRT stress reduction all you'll end up with when taking a vacation in the first half of the year is getting paged/called by everyone still at work and you'll have an overflowing inbox. In comparison, during the other half of the year you don't even need to spend vacation days to get long weekends and slow work weeks. 90% of the company takes friday after thanksgiving off, I may as well take it off too. So to reiterate one last time I'm talking about something that happens at the same time of year with vaguely similar symptoms for a completely different reason (or maybe not?) than the discussion of low D3 vitamins or whatever... although I'm sure the lack of holidays does not help those suffering from medical issues.

Pxtl 13y ago
What about Good Friday (and the gov't holiday of Easter Monday if you're in that field)? Anyhow, to counter this we get a day in February called "Family Day" here in Ontario - one of the much-maligned Ontario Liberal Party's better ideas.
- VLM 13y ago
  I don't work in a Catholic country so no federal holiday. For the operations people, Easter Sunday isn't even recognized as an official company holiday, much less Good Friday or Ash Wednesday. There is Valentines day which if you're hetronormative and a girl must be a lot of fun, but for us guys its pretty much just an expensive stressful (or lonely?) PITA. I could do without it, happily. Arbor day doesn't cut it either. Yo dude its Arbor Day lets go out and get drunk! Uh yeah you go do that and hug a tree for me.

jeltz 13y ago

I wonder what causes it since the variations in sunlight are tiny in SF (shortest day = 9.5 hours) compared to for example Stockholm (shortest day = 6 hours).

GrinningFool 13y ago
Variations being comparatively small doesn't make them tiny. Shortest day in SF is 9.5 hours. Longest day in SF is 14.75 hours. That's a significant difference. In comparison to Stockholm (6/18.5) it doesn't appear significant - but it's in no way tiny.

robotmay 13y ago

I have a somewhat opposite problem; I can't work at all during the summer. I can't deal with heat well and can barely think straight if I get even slightly too warm. This summer in the UK was unbearable in my new flat, which appears to have been designed as the most effective greenhouse in the world. I always look forward to autumn and winter. I get to wear clothes I like, nobody's outside as they're all whinging about the rain, and I feel a sort of melancholy bliss when I'm sat indoors whilst it's raining. It's one of the main reasons why I still live in Wales rather than somewhere like SF.

xwowsersx 13y ago
Hehe, totally hear that. You remind me of these hilarious tweets: https://twitter.com/SoVeryBritish/ https://twitter.com/SoVeryBritish/
- robotmay 13y ago
  My partner follows that; it's quite hard to tell the difference between that account and most people over here though. We're oddly predictable complainers!
padolsey 13y ago
I agree. Autumn and Winter in the UK are beautiful and I share that same melancholy bliss. I think my ideal living/working conditions are probably: hot beverage, crackling fire, rain outside, jazz playing in the background.
- robotmay 13y ago
  If only I had a fireplace; one of the main things I really miss whilst living in a flat. And jazz + rain is a superb combination, although I've found that discovering good jazz is one of the most difficult tasks I've ever attempted; just when you think you're on to something, BAM! Improvised trombone.
mixmastamyk 13y ago
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Awning http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Awning Awnings are perfect for this problem. In a pinch, Aluminium foil works as well.

johndl 13y ago

I've experienced this too, not just in winter. I live in Scotland, and the weather is mostly wet and damp (rain on ~2 out of 3 days of the year). This year we had a glorious summer. I got productive work done in a single month in June than the entire first 5 months of the year.

mkingston 13y ago

Skiing. (Or snowboarding. Or ice climbing. Or mountaineering. For those in milder climates: mountain biking) The take-home point is: get a great winter activity to look forward to. I used to feel this way (depressed in winter), but not since I started snowboarding. I'm really looking forward to winter at the moment, having moved from the southern to northern hemisphere recently.

cylinder 13y ago
All of the suggestions in this thread are too expensive. A ski trip for me would require a car rental, lodging, ski rental, lift fees and such, easily over $1,000 for a couple over a weekend. The light products, too, seem too expensive. Are there not 10,000 lux bulbs I can buy and stick into a socket? I don't need a "device."
- mkingston 13y ago
  Skiing is expensive, I agree. But less so if you own the equipment. The same goes for a range of other activities. Mountain biking is probably one of the best value-for-money winter sports I can think of in the UK (where I live) and NZ (where I'm from). One reasonably large expense up-front followed by low-cost or free access to various trails in various parks, and reasonably low equipment maintenance costs. Hiking is another alternative. Though it's not really something to look forward to in winter specifically; and if you can't enjoy it in summer, you probably won't in winter. Slightly lower up-front costs (some microfleece clothes and a good waterproof coat and hiking boots) but even lower transport costs. Of course both of those still come with a transport cost. If you need to avoid that as well, you should consider photography. I've found that since I've started developing some photography skills I'm never too sad about the climate- there's always something outside to try and capture nicely. And if you're able to throw in some hiking (or even walks in parks nearby) it becomes much nicer. The current season is especially fun in the UK where most of the trees (those that I've seen) are deciduous, unlike NZ. In any case, you may have to put some effort into any of these things; I didn't really enjoy winter hiking to begin with, but I've learned to really enjoy it. And, to be clear: not begrudgingly. Very enthusiastically.

VLM 13y ago

WRT "Wake-Up Light With Colored Sunrise Simulation, White" and other technological gadgets, I've a hypothesis that some people actually wake up at sunrise (like an anti-vampire I guess?) and other people do pure internal clock. Furthermore part of my hypothesis is there is a strong correlation between those types and likelihood of SAD-diagnosis. There are implications beyond SAD, such as alarm clock design. For example I can completely decouple from light input and sleep thru bright sunlight on my face if I'm tired (or drunk or hungover as I occasionally was in my youth). In fact many a time in my youth on weekends I'd come home around sunrise and fall asleep no problemo. If I used an alarm clock that simulated sunrise, I suspect I'd come into work late very often. On the other hand for SAD sufferers is the experience literally like a lightswitch like the sun rises and you are like biologically forced to wake up? If so they'd do very well indeed with a techno-gadget like this.

fjabre 13y ago

Weed got me through last winter.

protomyth 13y ago

Winter in North Dakota is interesting since you typically go to work and leave work in the dark. When you do go out during the day and drive somewhere, you typically wear sunglasses because the sunshine[1] off the snow makes it hard to drive otherwise. Unless the weather is poor (less often than you think), where you don't see the sun. The wind typically means you are not going to take any leisurely walks. 1) it is fairly sunny, but since the ground is covered in white stuff you don't get the heat absorption. Cloudy days feel less cold.

mbq 13y ago

I live in Poland and I have the opposite; for me winter is a stimulant. I don't know whether this is some remnant genetic call to survive hard times or a fact that it casts a kind of sterile aura that helps me to flow, but I'm objectively more productive then.

jotm 13y ago

I think everyone is affected by seasons - in my case, I feel down during seasons change, mostly May and October. I feel awesome during winter, I love it, summer not so much since I hate hot and humid weather (UK is pretty great during summer IMO :-D).

davewasthere 13y ago

I just switch hemispheres... problem solved. :)

jusben1369 13y ago

Many comments here are confusing issues: - It's not about relative winter temperatures - It's not about length of daylight hours during winter - It's not about what your experience is with any of the above if you don't have the disposition to begin with He's saying "If you have this pre-disposition/afflliction plan for it accordingly before it's too late (dark skies are here) That includes a) artificial interior lighting b) working 30 minutes outside into your routine somehow and c) having an escape plan that includes a week in the sun somewhere in your winter timeframe. As a side note I have lived in many places including Boston and the Bay Area. The most depressed I ever felt was during El Nino driven winters in the Bay Area. I realized I would never make it a year in Seattle. Having said that, there were only 2 or 3 of those during my 10+ years there and I've never felt anything like seasonal depression. My wife though did suffer from it when we moved to Boston (and we ultimately left because of it)

beloch 13y ago

Today's forecast for where I live is a low of -11 C and up to 20cm of snow. I couldn't be happier. The local ski-hills will open that much sooner! I actually feel a little bit sorry for those living in San Francisco. Summer goes away but you never get to enjoy real winter activities. If you're complaining about winter in SF, you should probably either move someplace warmer or someplace colder. Really, all it takes to enjoy winter is finding a winter activity you can look forward to. If you live someplace without winter, perhaps you should pick a sport to engage in only during the winter. Hell, SF must have at least one curling rink.

tnorthcutt 13y ago
He's not "complaining about winter". It's not the temperature; it's the (lack of) sunshine. Your second paragraph is a good suggestion. Getting outside while there is daylight will help.
ChuckMcM 13y ago
Summer goes away but you never get to enjoy real winter activities. You should tell that to my skiing obsessed family. There are no fewer than 10 Ski resorts in the Tahoe Basin alone, much less all along the Sierras. And they are only a few hours away by car or train. Californians often espouse the opinion that we have "well behaved" snow, it stays in the mountains where it belongs :-) But the point of getting out is always good. I try to take more walks in the winter months.
- dasil003 13y ago
  Tahoe is basically 4 hours from SF, and up to 8 if there is fresh snow, which rules out day trips for all but the most hard-core. It's not as bad as flat land out east, but it's certainly got nothing (including snow quality) on what is available in Utah / Colorado.
mkingston 13y ago
Where do you live, approximately, if you don't mind me asking?

benaiah 13y ago

I live in Alaska - four+ feet of snow in the winter, 20 below or colder for months at a time, dark from 4pm to 9am, etc. Personally, winter sucks, and it keeps me inside even more than typical. It just causes problems (cars don't like the cold very much, among other things) and makes me miserable. I dread every day the temperature drops, and I'm not looking forward to snowfall.

CaptainZapp 13y ago

I suffer from SAD. I didn't know it for years too. It was just that I ran into my dark phases, but had no actual clue how, or why. It was my psychologist, who asked the pertinent question years ago: Is there some sort of pattern, or rhythm to this ordeal? Well, no shit Sherlock! It always seems to happen betwen October and March. He recommended a light and I got myself a Philips Energy Light, like 5 years ago and it makes huge difference. I still feel shitty, during most of late Autumn and early spring. But half an hour under the lamp, sipping green tea and usually reading whatever made life so much better. In addition: I'll head off for a month in Asia in January. That helps a lot too. Lack of light can seriously affect some people. This may not be a solution if you suffer from depression. Get help! If you suffer from depression. Really! I mean it! It can kill you! But for me, 30 minutes a day, under the light makes a world of a difference.

Udo 13y ago
> He recommended a light and I got myself a Philips Energy Light I had to look that one up and felt reminded of my internship in a psychiatric hospital where I was mostly stationed in the psychotherapy center. By far the most common problem the patients had was depression. We had a huge light panel in a dedicated room and would recommend patients just sit in front of it. I thought it was amazing how much of a difference half an our of light bath made. The staff were using it, too! This was of course in Germany where, except for a few short summer months, it's always dark and gloomy. > Asia in January When I first started traveling for business, this is what cured me as well. I always try to get in a few days extra in the Philippines when it's winter in the EU :)
edvinbesic 13y ago
It took me a while to. Living in Sweden it was hard in the winters. I didn't mind the cold (layer layer layer) or the snow (quite fun) but the darkness was killing me. Somebody I know recommended a quick tanning session (5-10 mins) on lowest setting once every two weeks and it made a huge difference. I know tanning is bad and all that, but so is being depressed. Now I live in Miami with plenty of light and no such issues, way more productive. Just my 2c

mbubb 13y ago

Reminded me of Ezra Pound's rewrite of Middle English Poem about summer: Ancient Music - Ezra Pound Winter is icumen in, Lhude sing Goddamm, Raineth drop and staineth slop, And how the wind doth ramm! Sing: Goddamm. Skiddeth bus and sloppeth us, An ague hath my ham. Freezeth river, turneth liver, Damm you; Sing: Goddamm. Goddamm, Goddamm, 'tis why I am, Goddamm, So 'gainst the winter's balm. Sing goddamm, damm, sing goddamm, Sing goddamm, sing goddamm, DAMM.

berntb 13y ago

As a Scandinavian, it is surprising to read people from so far, far south complaining about SAD. I've been in mid Europe for a while. The sun here in mid winter is like being clubbed in the face with a bat of sunlight. Simply wonderful. You might want to consider to eat breakfast before a daylight lamp, it helped me and others. If you guys have SAD problems in California, don't go to Sweden... (Ok, there is probably few reasons to go there even without SAD problems. :-) ) Edit: The difference might be that you don't notice how different you are in winter if you grew up in the north, like not noticing the air?

AznHisoka 13y ago

I'd be OK with the winter... but winter means horrible TV programming. It's not yet March, so no Game of Thrones. Breaking Bad just ended. And Walking Dead will go on a short hiatus.

aeflash 13y ago

FYI, every single Vitamin D supplement I've seen is just olive oil in gel capsules. You can even see it in the imaged on the amazon product page he linked. I just cook with olive oil all the time -- stir frys, eggs, meats, etc....

bct 13y ago
> You can even see it in the imaged on the amazon product page he linked. Olive oil is listed under "Other ingredients" on that bottle. I presume that means it's not the main ingredient. According to http://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/foods/show/631?fg=&man=&lfacet=&format=&count=&max=25&offset=&sort=&qlookup=olive+oil http://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/foods/show/631?fg=&man=&lfacet=&... olive oil contains no vitamin D.
Dirlewanger 13y ago
is just olive oil in gel capsules. ...additionally with Vitamin D in them.

dmourati 13y ago

As an avid skier, I have SAD but in reverse. Once the snow starts falling (as it did in Lake Tahoe this weekend) I start perking up.

dholowiski 13y ago

Obligatory mental health comment: Depression is very real, as is SAD. The article has some great suggestions on how to alleviate symptoms. However - as hackers all to often we get stuck in a 'I can hack it, I can fix it' mentality - even when it comes to our own brains. Sometimes it's just 'the blues'. Often you can 'fix' it. But sometimes you can't. If you are suffering and nothing you do seems to fix it - please - please - see a doctor. This isn't always something you can fix on your own. We can't afford to lose another hacker - not even you.

avneet 13y ago

Can't agree more. As the days get shorter and the sky gets gloomy, my mood becomes gloomier. I've been aware of this for several years now. I noticed that when I was in college that I skipped more classes during winter and had the worst grades during winter quarter. Some of the things that work for me to keep myself motivated- Exercise, waking up and repeating to myself- "what do I need to achieve today?", eating healthy, turning the heater off sometimes and keep the house as bright as possible. Awesome blogpost!

secstate 13y ago

Just finished commenting on the post about the failure of science. Can't help but comment here on a post about SAD. And I am by no means making light of things. I myself struggled with SAD while in college for a few years. It's no fun at all. That said, you know how I get through winter now? I live a lifestyle that is surprisingly similar to how my Northern European ancestors would have. And a big part of that is diet: 1. Seafood 2. Pastured animal meat/fat Along with being a software developer, I am also a hog breeder. If you raise animals, but especially hogs, on open pasture exposed to the sun, their lard becomes saturated in trace elements like vitamin D3 [1]. 1: http://www.vitamindwiki.com/%22Free+range%22+lard+has+500+IU+vitamin+D+per+teaspoon http://www.vitamindwiki.com/%22Free+range%22+lard+has+500+IU...

mixmastamyk 13y ago

Interesting post. If he's that affected, he should move to Los Angeles, where he'll get ~11.5 months of happiness and productivity per year.

palidanx 13y ago
Except for the ridiculous time of June gloom. For those not in LA, we get no sun from 8am-1pm mostly the entire month of June. What ends up happening is I see most people sad in the mornings until 1pm. I used to make fun of those people when I realized I was one of them.
- mixmastamyk 13y ago
  True, though we didn't seem to have it this year, not sure why. Also, the farther you get from the beach the thinner it gets.

Too 13y ago

Does staring into two bright 24" monitors 8h per day help?

lhc- 13y ago
Unfortuneately, montitor light does not have much in common with Sunlight, and doesn't seem to have any positive effect.
sandstrom 13y ago
Only 8h? :)

noir_lord 13y ago

I'm the opposite of this, I long for summer to be over and love the coming of the Winter. I hate heat (fortunately I live in the North of England so it's not that frequent) far more than I hate the cold or dark. In winter time I burrow in and get far more done (plus nothing beats going cycling on a road bike in the country at night when it's -5C, crystal clear and you can see stars so close you could reach out and touch them). I actually dread the Summer.

j03w 13y ago

Would moving overseas help then? Winter in US is summer in downunder.

sirkneeland 13y ago

Well I guess moving to Finland is out of the question for the author...

bluekite2000 13y ago

Someone should start an endless summer club. Get a group of people together and work for 6 months in San Francisco then go South (Buenos Aires or sth equivalent) when winter comes.

simonhughes22 13y ago

I would recommend a much lower dosage of Vitamin D3 than the extreme high dosage (5,000 IU) on that Amazon site. While it is important to maintain reasonable levels of D3, higher levels can cause a range of problems, from kidney stones to increased risk of heart problems due to the raised calcium levels in your blood. The Linus Pauling institute recommends 600 IU, just over 1/8th the dosage of that link. People overdose on Vitamins these days, and are simply unaware that large dosages of vitamins can do far more harm than good. A little is good so more is better is a logical fallacy, yet a lot of people think this way. So I applaud you for bringing this to people's attention, but please recommend safer Vitamin D3 levels.

simonhughes22 13y ago
It is worth pointing out that it depends on your age, your deficiency level, and whether you are pregnant. Here is a good article from the Mayo clinic: http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/vitamin-d/NS_patient-vitamind/DSECTION=dosing http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/vitamin-d/NS_patient-vitami...
- simonhughes22 13y ago
  Here is a link to 1,000 IU dosage: http://www.amazon.com/NOW-Foods-Vitamin-1000-Softgels/dp/B000A0LE6O/ref=sr_1_1?s=hpc&ie=UTF8&qid=1383002971&sr=1-1&keywords=vitamin+d3+1000+iu http://www.amazon.com/NOW-Foods-Vitamin-1000-Softgels/dp/B00... You may want to opt for the 600 IU if you get some sun as it is. I live in Chicago, so no much sun for me in Winter time.

philsnow 13y ago

> how many days in a row did you go without getting at least half-an-hour of direct bright sunlight One of my major life goals is maximizing this number. I'd get a good peeling burn if I let myself sit out in the sun like that.

cmccabe 13y ago

Pretty much everywhere in the San Francisco bay area is sunny year round, except San Francisco itself. So if you have seasonal affective disorder, you could always just live in the east or south bay during the winter months. As a bonus you'd save on rent.

peterwwillis 13y ago

The most depressing thing about this post: > Buy some lights > You want to get lights that are at least 5,000 lux and preferably 10,000 lux. I recommend checking out Biobrite – that’s your first stop with the Per3 and the Philips light products as secondary options. Anything that doesn’t explicitly say it is either 5,000 or 10,000 lux is not going to do the job of stimulating serotonin. GO. THE. FUCK. OUTSIDE. Wake the fuck up, as soon as the sun starts to peek out, and stay outside until you feel awake and full of life. Then go back to your rectangular cave and hide out. Until lunch time, when you go the fuck outside again. Wear a thermal t-shirt and shorts and run a mile. Then go back to your cave again. Before the sun sets, go outside once more and watch the sunset, preferably in a jog. Serotonin my ass. You're feeling the pressure of human society weighing you down, and winter is a reminder of your own mortality. Go outside and look at a lake surrounded by leafless trees, sip some hot tea, and think about how beautiful it all is. (and then remember and be thankful that you're not stuck in Florida, but maybe that's just me)