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Visual Studio 2013 released to web
- scrabble 13y agoI'm still using VS 2010 at work. Can't seem to make a compelling case to upgrade for the cost, and it's just getting more frustrating. VS 2013 is looking like a really great product, especially in comparison to VS 2010.
- pmelendez 13y agoDepending on what are you using, C++11 complete support is more that enough reason for upgrade to me. :)
- alok-g 13y agoSold! Where can I confirm that VS 2013 is fully C++11 compliant?
- thelinked 13y agoWhile VS 2013 has much better C++11 support it's not close to full compliance. The Visual C++ team have decided to work on C++11/C++14 together which is slowing C++11 a bit. Here's a blog post laying out their plans. http://blogs.msdn.com/b/somasegar/archive/2013/06/28/cpp-conformance-roadmap.aspx http://blogs.msdn.com/b/somasegar/archive/2013/06/28/cpp-con... There's also a quite detailed talk by Herb Sutter on channel 9 as well. http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Build/2013/2-306 http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Build/2013/2-306
- kossmoboleat 13y agoVS 2008 here, somebody apparently tested 2012 but nothing came out of it with people fearing that a different C++ compiler will break everything...
- tonyedgecombe 13y agoI just upgraded a VS2008 project to VS2010 and got a huge boost in compile times, worth it for that alone.
- scrabble 13y agoI think the improvements we'd get in Entity Framework performance, testing, and analysis would be well worth it.
- pionar 13y ago> I think the improvements we'd get in Entity Framework performance Technically, that's not a VS2012 or 2013 feature, that comes from .NET 4.5, which you can use with VS 2010. However, the testing and analysis is well worth it. I don't know what your source control is, but paired with TFS 2012, it's a pretty large productivity improvement for my team over VS 2010 (as large as you can get from an IDE upgrade).
- scrabble 13y agoI'm using SVN for source control. And I'm a little confused on the first part, because .NET 4.5 is not supported in Visual Studio 2010.
- chillitom 13y agoMan! If you're doing C++ then you definitely want to get onto 2012/2013 ASAP, the improvements in tooling are amazing. "Navigate to.." alone is worth it.
- acqq 13y agoVS 2008 is the last one capable to compile the C++ to produce the binaries that can run on Windows 2000. Believe or not, I actually need that. That prevents me to use any C++ language changes introduced after VS 2008. The frustrating part is that MS actually removed the existing code from the already existing libraries (but which are not binary interchangeable between the compiler versions) in order to disable the support for Windows 2000. Otherwise I'd be able to use even VS 2013. They did the same for XP with VS 2012, but more people made the fuss so now even VS 2013 should support XP, AFAIK.
- robododo 13y agoSupport for large projects/solutions was greatly improved. VS2012 added deferred loading for some items so you can open and get into code faster. Of course, this is purely an artifact of overly large solutions. If you've inherited any of those, as I have, it's worth the upgrade for the improved performance, IMO.
- curiousDog 13y agoYes! 2013 feels much faster and lighter too. No more waiting for a while for it to be page-faulted in when you wake up an idle .sln
- phaed 13y agoDear god this has been fixed? Upgrading right away.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- ptr 13y agoThat's on Linux, running Mono. Would be interesting to get a more fair comparison wrt language.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- pionar 13y agoTo be fair, They're using Entity Framework in there. That adds a lot of overhead for something as simple as running a single query, and spoils the results.
- barrkel 13y agoWhy is go language slower than asp.net mvc? http://www.techempower.com/benchmarks/#section=data-r6&hw=winec2&test=update http://www.techempower.com/benchmarks/#section=data-r6&hw=wi... Microbenchmarks like these don't usually teach you a whole lot, other than how far someone went to implement the benchmark, and how close the benchmark is to the designed application of the libraries used in the implementation.
- mauricedb 13y agoCool :-)
- mu_killnine 13y agoVery nice. I really love 2012 and the 2013 RC was pretty solid as well. The step up from 2010 was the most pronounced, as 2012 just runs circles around 2010 in (albeit, my own anecdotal) performance. Just gotta wait for an upgrade license of R# to go on sale, as R#7 isn't compatible with 2013 ;(
- rubberband 13y agoFor what it's worth, I got a 50% discount from them from buying R#7 so close to the R#8 release date (uninstalled 7, and mentioned in the "please tell us why" comments that it was just too expensive). May be worth a shot.
- Pxtl 13y agoVS2012 took out installer projects (instead telling you to just use InstallShield), SQLCLR projects, was incompatible with Oleg Sych's T4 Toolbox plug-in, and had a colour-scheme in the TFS source browser that made my eyes want to bleed. Every other VS upgrade has been comparatively painless. I can't say I'm excited to try VS2013.
- daigoba66 13y agoFor installers, use http://wixtoolset.org/ http://wixtoolset.org/.
- anton_gogolev 13y agoYeah, because I really want to spend hours upon hours studying obscure incantations that someone decided to be making sense. WiX (and MSI, for that matter) is a disaster.
- DrJokepu 13y agoIt’s really not that bad. WiX is actually pretty decent, definitely not a “disaster”. It might look more frightening than InstallShield because you don’t get a nice UI that allows you to set up an installer with a few clicks, but I mean, we’re programmers here, surely editing textual configuration files is not an issue? It took me somethong like 30 minutes to replace our old InstallShield installer with WiX.
- coffeeaddicted 13y agoI gave it a shot for a day recently but found it way harder to use than InstallShield or NSIS. Part of it was probably the broken documentation where half the links just ended in nirvana. But I gave up when I learned you really have to add each single file one-by-one and the documentation even defended this as a feature.
- euroclydon 13y ago
- V-2 13y agoIs exception assistant still removed from Express edition? Yes? Put me back in
- mamby 13y agoVS2013 is great, try it guys! watch this (for web devs): http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Build/2013/3-503 http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Build/2013/3-503
- nailer 13y agoThought this was announcing a web version of VS.
- gwjp 13y agoIf you need to justify upgrades I would recommend measuring build speed savings in teams - vs 2012 & vs 2013 build faster than 2010 in my findings.
- taspeotis 13y agoAnecdote: for one C++ solution I work on (two projects, 300k SLOC) VS2008: 5 min VS2012: 15 min VS2013 Preview: 10 min I use VS2012 and I'm about to use VS2013 for .NET development, but our C++ project is stuck in VS2008.
- tiedemann 13y agoC# solutions on the other hand builds way faster (in my experience).
- xradionut 13y agoVS 2010 is the last one I got for personal use. Not enamored with the changes in VS 2012, Windows 8.* nor the cyclical abandonment of APIs. Add in the increased license cost we face on all Microsoft products at work and any announcement from Redmond gets a "meh" from me.
- gecko 13y agoVS 2013 adds fix-and-continue to x64 builds. That right there is enough for me. Beyond that, though, I'd encourage you to at least look at VS 2012, get past the superficial changes, and look underneath. There were a lot of performance improvements in the GUI rendering that added up, and there were a lot of tweaks to project search and management that became indispensable to me shortly after launch.
- ChikkaChiChi 13y agoCame here thinking VS2k13 was going to be free.
- ScottWhigham 13y agoIt sort of is - they have the Express Editions which are free: http://www.microsoft.com/visualstudio/eng/downloads#d-2013-express http://www.microsoft.com/visualstudio/eng/downloads#d-2013-e...
- teamonkey 13y agoFully-integrated TypeScript support! For me that elevates TypeScript from a MS side project to something they're serious about.
- apaprocki 13y agoFrom their TypeScript blog post re: path to 1.0: "There are now dozens of large applications written by teams in Microsoft, including Bing, Xbox, TFS, So.cl, as well as in projects such as Adobe Digital Publishing Suite for Windows 8.1, Zud.io, Away3D, and Turbulenz." I think they've been pretty serious about it from the start due to the design decisions in Metro.
- skittles 13y agoAnders is in charge of TypeScript. That alone should have been enough.
- acqq 13y agoIn VS 2012 MSFT removed the color for the icons in the UI. Everybody complained on the web. Now the color icons are back. MSFT's spin: "Visual Studio 2013 includes many user interface improvements based on customer feedback and Microsoft’s core design principle of keeping the focus on the content to deliver an improved user experience. You may notice the more than 400 modified icons with greater differentiation and increased use of color," http://www.microsoft.com/visualstudio/eng/visual-studio-2013 http://www.microsoft.com/visualstudio/eng/visual-studio-2013
- Leszek 13y ago> based on customer feedback Sounds about right to me. Why is this "spin"?
- MichaelGG 13y agoBecause from the very beginning, way before 2012 was released, customers hated the move and criticized it. Microsoft insisted "Metro" was cool and we had to like it, that they weren't icons, but glyphs, and glyphs don't use color. Instead of just admitting up-front their redesign was pretty hated and promising to fix it, they insist it's great until they've changed it.
- atwebb 13y agoSo they put it back and now people are unhappy a company didn't flat out say they made a bad decision? Spin is everywhere, startups seem worse than others. Every day there's something on the HN front page that's going to revolutionize and disrupt the internet...
- acqq 13y agoNo, I'm unhappy that they kept the capitals in menus(!) like "FILE" "EDIT" "VIEW" "PROJECT" "BUILD" even though there were enough complaints about these too. I'm also unhappy there's no real Start menu back in W8.1.
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- ninjakeyboard 13y agoI can't seem to find the dmg for mac.
- adamdavis 13y agoIt's probably on apple's homepage in the same section for the iOS windows dev tools. Please share the link when you find it.
- ConceptJunkie 13y agoI think it's on the same page as the .deb and .rpm files.
- saejox 13y ago"Please install Internet Explorer 10 and then retry installing Visual Studio" Internet Explorer 10 also insists on Windows 7 SP1 installation. I'm using this Win7 install since 2009. I'm very scared the update will jinx it.
- mynameisvlad 13y agoThat's such a horrible practice I don't even. You're forcing yourself to stay on an older, potentially less maintained version of the OS so you don't "jinx it"?
- sk5t 13y agoThe VS.NET installer has gotten a lot less terrible since the 2005/2008 days, although it used to be pretty dicey. One may now upgrade with little to no fear of a nightmarishly borked install state... that said, it's wise to use VMs exclusively for development, so rolling back to a pre-update snapshot is an option.
- saejox 13y agoI heard many complaints about SP1 slow starting and getting stuck in 'Shutting Down'. On top of that SP1 has zero new features. Bunch of so called security updates. From my perpective i'm using the stable version. If thing go awry i would need to waste a day or two reinstalling the OS again. It's very easy to resist installing this update.
- yuhong 13y agoZero new features is not true. AVX support for newer processors is one new feature. But more importantly Win7 RTM support ended April 2013.
- buckbova 13y agohttp://visualstudio.uservoice.com/forums/121579-visual-studio/suggestions/4153040-remove-the-requirment-for-internet-explorer-10-to- http://visualstudio.uservoice.com/forums/121579-visual-studi... Apparrently there is a requirement to have IE10 installed. Dealbreaker for many in the corp world. These should be developed independently.
- chris_mahan 13y agowe're still on Windows 7. On XP, until April.
- flipchart 13y agoWhy is a dealbreaker for a development machine to have a certain browser installed?
- jpalomaki 13y agoAnd finally we should be able to see function return values in debugger: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/visualstudioalm/archive/2013/06/27/seeing-function-return-values-in-the-debugger-in-visual-studio-2013.aspx http://blogs.msdn.com/b/visualstudioalm/archive/2013/06/27/s...
- platz 13y agoThat's a great feature which will actually help avoid creating local bindings just to easily see the value.
- gpvos 13y agoYou could see this in the Autos window in earlier versions, too. Although maybe only immediately after shift-F11'ing out of a function, and not of multiple levels of function calls like the linked article shows.
- 727374 13y agoThis rant has been brewing for many years... Everything's been downhill since VS6. I'm only joking, but seriously, does anyone remember how lightning fast VS6 was? That was over 15 years ago with much slower computers. I guess application 'snappiness' has not been a priority for the Visual Studio decision makers. I've used VS since the late 90s (writing node.js in ST2 now) and honestly appreciate the hard work and cool features that goes into it. The new VS2013 feature that shows how often a function is referenced is useful. I don't get that in ST2 and probably never will. But I've used VS enough that I've become philosophically opposed to it and other similar IDEs. The core of the problem for me was that all the fancy wizards and project templates are not maintainable for MS. There were a number of times I was using some new project type introduced in a version of VS only to find the template was incompatible in the next version (e.g. reporting in 2005). This inevitably lead to a lot of unexpected work when my team would upgrade. Many of the productivity wizards impose hidden debt on their users. Another major gripe was that VS would get really sludgy for solutions with a great number of projects/files. Take note that whenever you see MS demo a hot new feature, it's always with a very simple solution. Also, VS would block for me a lot, but that was probably due using too many plugins. I'd find that an application freeze of even 2 seconds would distract me. Not an issue I face now with a text editor + repl. </rant>
- timthorn 13y agoVS6 was a massive downgrade on VS5, in that the help system was no longer treated as a dockable window within VS. I relied on the documentation at that point, but when VS6 came along it was no longer something I could easily have in front of me, with my code, with the VS window full screen. </nostalgic rant>
- overgryphon 13y agoI think you may have selective memory with regards to VS6 (understandable over 15 years). Having recently worked at a company that for silly reasons did not upgrade beyond VS6, it was not lightning fast, took several minutes to open, and crashed frequently even with smaller projects. Modern VS really needs to work on managing large projects- but this isn't something it ever had to begin with, and has certainly improved since VS6 despite added functionality. The responsiveness issues you list seem a little more problematic than normal from my experiences- I would definitely try uninstalling a few plugins and seeing if that helps.
- swalsh 13y agoI had the preview installed, and I had really grown to love the navigation bar for Javascript. After installing the professional edition from MSDN... my navigation bars are gone. WTF?
- macca321 13y agoI got a free copy of 2010 by attending a launch event, and 2012 from the (now defunct) websitespark program. Anyone know of any freebies for 2013?
- smortaz 13y agoone cool freebie imho is "PTVS-Integrated". it's VisualStudio 2013 + Python Tools bundled together. It's perpetually free. link: http://pytools.codeplex.com http://pytools.codeplex.com video overview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNNAOypc6Ek https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNNAOypc6Ek (disclaimer, etc).
- rossy 13y agoIs it available on DreamSpark yet? There's a link to DreamSpark on the download page, but it takes you to the RC, which has been out for a while.
- taspeotis 13y agoThere's no link to DreamSpark on the download page [1] [1] http://www.microsoft.com/visualstudio/eng#downloads http://www.microsoft.com/visualstudio/eng#downloads
- rossy 13y agoI can see a banner about halfway down linking to DreamSpark. They still only have the RC, but apparently the final version will be available on the 31st.
- yeukhon 13y agoImagine one day you can just loan Windows Azure server and launches a build when you click a button on VS web edition. I think that's an attractive feature. Or pair programming on web over VS with co-workers.
- oddshocks 13y ago> people use this > what
- Flow 13y agoThere are few new features I actually need. I want speed. Speed when compiling(currently it's file-copy mania), speed when starting my project(minutes of loading debug symbol, really?)
- taude 13y agoSince moving to OS X, I've left Visual Studio behind. At first, I had a boot camp partition running windows so I could still develop our C#-based web product. Then eventually we changed the product significantly enough that moving to an OSS tech stack made sense. I'd probably still be using some MSFT technologies if I could use a VSS-style IDE on OS X without virtualization (I tired MonoDevelop, but it just wan't the same). I didn't have issues with the speed of Visual Studio running on my beefed up MBPro, but the keybinding stuff was just too much to deal with. Not to mention, having a ton of different runtime/hosting options is a pretty nice bonus for the OSS stack. Also, for mostly web apps, I think Visual Studio is massive overkill (but I'll still watch their videos on features). For now, I've settled happily using on cross-platform tools (PyCharm/WebStorm for a feature rich IDE and Sublime Text 2 for code editing, and VIm when tweaking stuff on the server). Should I ever go back to Windows (likely, because I want a Surface Pro 2), my tooling should carry over (though I'll have to go through some keybinding issues again). Never again will I use products that are locked down to a single OS. Even the tools on my Mac (with the exception of Keynote) run on Windows and vice-versa.