6 ms·

The pens are still made by the Fisher family in their factory, which moved from Van Nuys, California to Boulder City, Nevada (as I myself did -- Boulder City is

by zach 13y ago

The pens are still made by the Fisher family in their factory, which moved from Van Nuys, California to Boulder City, Nevada (as I myself did -- Boulder City is a neat place to grow up). Their current challenge is actually finding American sources for the pen's parts, to keep it a 100% made-in-the-USA product: http://www.reviewjournal.com/business/nevadan-work-ceo-space-pen-company-runs-down-earth-company http://www.reviewjournal.com/business/nevadan-work-ceo-space... You can tell I love this company. Did I mention the Field Notes branded pen? http://fieldnotesbrand.com/spacepen/ http://fieldnotesbrand.com/spacepen/

arrrg 13y ago
“to keep it a 100% made-in-the-USA product” Yay, nationalism.
- chrischen 13y ago
  Or anti-globalism, anti-exploitation of developing countries. Contrary to popular belief, there are valid practical benefits to keeping things within the US economy. For example, outsourcing manufacturing jobs to China does hurt American workers... and China doesn't operate under the same environmental and labor laws, so it's not exactly fair.
  - marcosdumay 13y ago
    > anti-exploitation of developing countries No problem with your other points, but if you have the chance, ask some exploited laborer in a developing country if he would like you to stop exploiting him.
    - twelvechairs 13y ago
      yeah the simple answer is to manufacture wherever you want and just make sure workers have good pay and conditions.
      - chii 13y ago
        it isn't simple because consumers don't chose based on the work conditions the workers who made their products, but on price. At least, not the majority of consumers.
    - justin66 13y ago
      Or better yet, discard the loaded terminology and ask that laborer, his parents, and if possible their parents if the post-WWII economic order has lived up to its promise in their country. As with most real world problems the answer will probably be pretty mixed and the blame for failings won't fall on any one party. Developed countries could do a lot better by the developing countries that do a lot of the heavy lifting. It's not an either/or thing where we either mistreat the heck out of workers, pollute everything, etc. etc. or simply pull out.
    - coldtea 13y ago
      I have asked lots and they would LOVE for foreign countries to stop exploiting them. I guess it makes one sleep easier if he thinks "at least we're giving them jobs" -- forgetting the part where foreign companies behave like colonialists, making pacts and keeping their lackeys in power in those countries, influencing local laws, stiffling development of local initiatives -- down to employing thugs and/or private armies in some countries. So the "we're giving them jobs and spend money on the place" mostly amounts to "what would those slaves do without us" of the Southern slave owners of old...
      - CrankyPants 13y ago
        Jobs created in third-world countries by globalization are sometimes preferable to the local alternatives. It isn't a given that they're inherently worse. Having lived as a volunteer in some pretty poor places, I've seen it firsthand. Not saying that's true everywhere, or in every situation, or that there aren't terrible abuses, just that the world is considerably less black-and-white than we sometimes think.
      - BariumBlue 13y ago
        > foreign countries to stop exploiting them Most developing countries need/would benefit greatly from foreign goods. The only way to get those foreign goods is from foreign currency, which can only be gotten from foreign companies. The main reason WHY companies are motivated to move operations into underdeveloped countries is because said workers are so exploitable. Imagine if, from the dawn of capitalism in China, China mandated pollution and labor laws equivalent to the US's. I don't imagine that China would not be anywhere near as developed as it is now, and it's possible the current standard of living would be even worse. (just a thought example, elucidation from actual cases/examples appreciated)
        seabee 13y ago
        Perhaps an even easier to imagine example: would the Industrial Revolution have happened if we had the same pollution and labor laws then? Or looking at the other side, if China had the same laws as us, if we had nowhere to outsource our externalities, would it still work? In other words, is outsourcing the reason we can maintain our higher standards locally?
    - chrischen 13y ago
      You mean like Africa?
  - arrrg 13y ago
    Yay, ad-hoc bullshit reasoning to justify nationalism! If there are good reasons to do something a certain way then there is no need to plaster nationalist labels all over it and employ nationalist propaganda. Those are just weak excuses for nationalism. Also, more often than not anti-globalization is just disguised nationalism. At least the brand of anti-globalization that would say something like “100% US made”. Yes, globalization has serious downsides – but only because it happens with nations still existing.
    - dgesang 13y ago
      > plaster nationalist labels all over it and employ nationalist propaganda. That's what you did. He just said '100%-USA product'. > Those are just weak excuses for nationalism. How so? Nationalism and producing a product within in a certain region/state/country is not the same, no matter how much you want it to be. > Also, more often than not anti-globalization is just disguised nationalism. Not where I live (Germany). > Yes, globalization has serious downsides – but only because it happens with nations still existing. No, there are many versatile reasons why globalization has downsides (and upsides), I'm sure you can come up with one or two more if you just wanted to. But it seems that all you care about is nationalism.
      - VMG 13y ago
        > Nationalism and producing a product within in a certain region/state/country is not the same, no matter how much you want it to be. Not only is it the same, it is the definition of Nationalism. The company would choose a US manufacturer over a competitor in a foreign country, even if a foreign manufacturer made a better product at a better price and was a better employer. This is no different than choosing your supplier by race, religion or gender. I agree however on the anti-globalization movement in Germany, it's not nationalism but economic ignorance with a sprinkling of Marxism.
        mattlutze 13y ago
        Nationalism is an ideology that a person or group's loyalty to a nation surpasses other needs, goals, etc. Nationalism is not simply building a product within a certain geographic region. Market differentiation, labor laws, environmental concerns, brand tradition, job stimulus (not as national loyalism but as local benevolence / civility), are all rational reasons to build a product in a certain area that have nothing to do with ideological loyalty.
  - gnufied 13y ago
    So the Anti-Globalisation should work both ways right? For example, if it weren't profitable for Walmart to open stores in India - they wouldn't be bribing away their way in (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tag/walmart-bribery-scandal http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tag/walmart-bribery-scandal). Don't US companies get big market as well as a result of globalisation? Fischer wants to make 100% USA made product? Good for them, but then if a country decides to ban import of Fischer pens, US shouldn't strong arm the country via WTO? The reality is except few countries, the global economy has been more or less integrated, like it or not. A crisis in Greece affects all of Europe and world.
    - chrischen 13y ago
      By globalizing, we're basically diluting our own standards. It's happening, but that doesn't mean you have to help it happen. If China has laxer environmental protection laws, and the US has stricter, then the US is basically working around its own environmental laws by outsourcing to China. This is happening, but that doesn't mean that you might as well go all in to China, until the point they develop environmental protection laws.
      - podperson 13y ago
        But it's not clear how to make Good Things happen. In general, people who're struggling to put food on the table don't care about the environment. (Even in the US, one whiff of Economic downturn -- OMG we can't afford a new flatscreen TV this year?! -- and all talk of CO2 emissions goes out the window.) You can see that as China's middle class grows in numbers and power the environment becomes a significant issue. Power corrupts, but so does powerlessness. You need to satisfy people's basic needs for food, shelter, employment, etc. before you can get them to care about human rights and the environment.
        chrischen 13y ago
        The more we integrate with China, the more they will leech off our progress. There's no objective stance on whether or not this is bad or good, but globalization will basically allow China to leech our progress artificially and reduce our own standards slightly. Some negatives for China are that we create an artificial large wealthy market that creates tons of jobs for China, while China isn't actually developing a proper consumer market for their own goods. This could create dependence but it might also mean it messes with the natural development of a developing nation. A lot of the same reasons The Federation in Star Trek has a no-interaction with less developed races.
  - VMG 13y ago
    The article does not state that the company owner cares about environmental laws or labor laws. He cares about the Nationality of the supplier. He might also value the welfare of an American worker over that of a Chinese or Dutch or Canadian worker, but that is a nationalist position.
  - podperson 13y ago
    "outsourcing manufacturing jobs to China does hurt American workers" Only in a narrow, short-term sense. In the wider, longer-term sense outsourcing simply represents someone making a decision that appears to be to their economic benefit. Such decisions should be generally beneficial, as long as the surrounding legal framework is fair. Now, it isn't fair -- either in the US or China (and historically, the US has an awful record with, for example Labor Relations). The big problem with globalization is that is globalizes dollars but not people, which is unfair to most people. E.g. I can pretty easily move my dollars to where they'll do the most good, but I can't just as easily move myself. Why do you care about "American" jobs anyway, other than nationalism? Surely our goal should be to make the world better for people.
- meepmorp 13y ago
  Yay, oversimplification.
- CrankyPants 13y ago
  I've never understood why it's totally noble for an individual to take pride in his own ability to craft something nice by virtue of his skill and experience, yet when the US (not so much other nations) does this on a business, institutional, or otherwise collective level, someone invariably comes out of the woodwork to criticize it. Edit: Way to prove me wrong!
blueblob 13y ago
I looked at Fisher's site for the pen and saw that you can get them engraved. Tried to type a heart in the way that they mention alt-3 and learned that alt-# switches to tab # in firefox. Apparently ctl-# is the windows equivalent. Cool to learn something new on accident.
joeyo 13y ago
Rite-in-the rain has a nice collection of them too: http://www.riteintherain.com/inventory.asp?CatId={07D475E2-B68D-4D45-B646-B82223E119DE} http://www.riteintherain.com/inventory.asp?CatId={07D475E2-B...

by zach 13y ago

arrrg 13y ago

“to keep it a 100% made-in-the-USA product” Yay, nationalism.

chrischen 13y ago
Or anti-globalism, anti-exploitation of developing countries. Contrary to popular belief, there are valid practical benefits to keeping things within the US economy. For example, outsourcing manufacturing jobs to China does hurt American workers... and China doesn't operate under the same environmental and labor laws, so it's not exactly fair.
- marcosdumay 13y ago
  > anti-exploitation of developing countries No problem with your other points, but if you have the chance, ask some exploited laborer in a developing country if he would like you to stop exploiting him.
  - twelvechairs 13y ago
    yeah the simple answer is to manufacture wherever you want and just make sure workers have good pay and conditions.
    - chii 13y ago
      it isn't simple because consumers don't chose based on the work conditions the workers who made their products, but on price. At least, not the majority of consumers.
  - justin66 13y ago
    Or better yet, discard the loaded terminology and ask that laborer, his parents, and if possible their parents if the post-WWII economic order has lived up to its promise in their country. As with most real world problems the answer will probably be pretty mixed and the blame for failings won't fall on any one party. Developed countries could do a lot better by the developing countries that do a lot of the heavy lifting. It's not an either/or thing where we either mistreat the heck out of workers, pollute everything, etc. etc. or simply pull out.
  - coldtea 13y ago
    I have asked lots and they would LOVE for foreign countries to stop exploiting them. I guess it makes one sleep easier if he thinks "at least we're giving them jobs" -- forgetting the part where foreign companies behave like colonialists, making pacts and keeping their lackeys in power in those countries, influencing local laws, stiffling development of local initiatives -- down to employing thugs and/or private armies in some countries. So the "we're giving them jobs and spend money on the place" mostly amounts to "what would those slaves do without us" of the Southern slave owners of old...
    - CrankyPants 13y ago
      Jobs created in third-world countries by globalization are sometimes preferable to the local alternatives. It isn't a given that they're inherently worse. Having lived as a volunteer in some pretty poor places, I've seen it firsthand. Not saying that's true everywhere, or in every situation, or that there aren't terrible abuses, just that the world is considerably less black-and-white than we sometimes think.
    - BariumBlue 13y ago
      > foreign countries to stop exploiting them Most developing countries need/would benefit greatly from foreign goods. The only way to get those foreign goods is from foreign currency, which can only be gotten from foreign companies. The main reason WHY companies are motivated to move operations into underdeveloped countries is because said workers are so exploitable. Imagine if, from the dawn of capitalism in China, China mandated pollution and labor laws equivalent to the US's. I don't imagine that China would not be anywhere near as developed as it is now, and it's possible the current standard of living would be even worse. (just a thought example, elucidation from actual cases/examples appreciated)
      - seabee 13y ago
        Perhaps an even easier to imagine example: would the Industrial Revolution have happened if we had the same pollution and labor laws then? Or looking at the other side, if China had the same laws as us, if we had nowhere to outsource our externalities, would it still work? In other words, is outsourcing the reason we can maintain our higher standards locally?
  - chrischen 13y ago
    You mean like Africa?
- arrrg 13y ago
  Yay, ad-hoc bullshit reasoning to justify nationalism! If there are good reasons to do something a certain way then there is no need to plaster nationalist labels all over it and employ nationalist propaganda. Those are just weak excuses for nationalism. Also, more often than not anti-globalization is just disguised nationalism. At least the brand of anti-globalization that would say something like “100% US made”. Yes, globalization has serious downsides – but only because it happens with nations still existing.
  - dgesang 13y ago
    > plaster nationalist labels all over it and employ nationalist propaganda. That's what you did. He just said '100%-USA product'. > Those are just weak excuses for nationalism. How so? Nationalism and producing a product within in a certain region/state/country is not the same, no matter how much you want it to be. > Also, more often than not anti-globalization is just disguised nationalism. Not where I live (Germany). > Yes, globalization has serious downsides – but only because it happens with nations still existing. No, there are many versatile reasons why globalization has downsides (and upsides), I'm sure you can come up with one or two more if you just wanted to. But it seems that all you care about is nationalism.
    - VMG 13y ago
      > Nationalism and producing a product within in a certain region/state/country is not the same, no matter how much you want it to be. Not only is it the same, it is the definition of Nationalism. The company would choose a US manufacturer over a competitor in a foreign country, even if a foreign manufacturer made a better product at a better price and was a better employer. This is no different than choosing your supplier by race, religion or gender. I agree however on the anti-globalization movement in Germany, it's not nationalism but economic ignorance with a sprinkling of Marxism.
      - mattlutze 13y ago
        Nationalism is an ideology that a person or group's loyalty to a nation surpasses other needs, goals, etc. Nationalism is not simply building a product within a certain geographic region. Market differentiation, labor laws, environmental concerns, brand tradition, job stimulus (not as national loyalism but as local benevolence / civility), are all rational reasons to build a product in a certain area that have nothing to do with ideological loyalty.
- gnufied 13y ago
  So the Anti-Globalisation should work both ways right? For example, if it weren't profitable for Walmart to open stores in India - they wouldn't be bribing away their way in (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tag/walmart-bribery-scandal http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tag/walmart-bribery-scandal). Don't US companies get big market as well as a result of globalisation? Fischer wants to make 100% USA made product? Good for them, but then if a country decides to ban import of Fischer pens, US shouldn't strong arm the country via WTO? The reality is except few countries, the global economy has been more or less integrated, like it or not. A crisis in Greece affects all of Europe and world.
  - chrischen 13y ago
    By globalizing, we're basically diluting our own standards. It's happening, but that doesn't mean you have to help it happen. If China has laxer environmental protection laws, and the US has stricter, then the US is basically working around its own environmental laws by outsourcing to China. This is happening, but that doesn't mean that you might as well go all in to China, until the point they develop environmental protection laws.
    - podperson 13y ago
      But it's not clear how to make Good Things happen. In general, people who're struggling to put food on the table don't care about the environment. (Even in the US, one whiff of Economic downturn -- OMG we can't afford a new flatscreen TV this year?! -- and all talk of CO2 emissions goes out the window.) You can see that as China's middle class grows in numbers and power the environment becomes a significant issue. Power corrupts, but so does powerlessness. You need to satisfy people's basic needs for food, shelter, employment, etc. before you can get them to care about human rights and the environment.
      - chrischen 13y ago
        The more we integrate with China, the more they will leech off our progress. There's no objective stance on whether or not this is bad or good, but globalization will basically allow China to leech our progress artificially and reduce our own standards slightly. Some negatives for China are that we create an artificial large wealthy market that creates tons of jobs for China, while China isn't actually developing a proper consumer market for their own goods. This could create dependence but it might also mean it messes with the natural development of a developing nation. A lot of the same reasons The Federation in Star Trek has a no-interaction with less developed races.
- VMG 13y ago
  The article does not state that the company owner cares about environmental laws or labor laws. He cares about the Nationality of the supplier. He might also value the welfare of an American worker over that of a Chinese or Dutch or Canadian worker, but that is a nationalist position.
- podperson 13y ago
  "outsourcing manufacturing jobs to China does hurt American workers" Only in a narrow, short-term sense. In the wider, longer-term sense outsourcing simply represents someone making a decision that appears to be to their economic benefit. Such decisions should be generally beneficial, as long as the surrounding legal framework is fair. Now, it isn't fair -- either in the US or China (and historically, the US has an awful record with, for example Labor Relations). The big problem with globalization is that is globalizes dollars but not people, which is unfair to most people. E.g. I can pretty easily move my dollars to where they'll do the most good, but I can't just as easily move myself. Why do you care about "American" jobs anyway, other than nationalism? Surely our goal should be to make the world better for people.
meepmorp 13y ago
Yay, oversimplification.
CrankyPants 13y ago
I've never understood why it's totally noble for an individual to take pride in his own ability to craft something nice by virtue of his skill and experience, yet when the US (not so much other nations) does this on a business, institutional, or otherwise collective level, someone invariably comes out of the woodwork to criticize it. Edit: Way to prove me wrong!

blueblob 13y ago

I looked at Fisher's site for the pen and saw that you can get them engraved. Tried to type a heart in the way that they mention alt-3 and learned that alt-# switches to tab # in firefox. Apparently ctl-# is the windows equivalent. Cool to learn something new on accident.

joeyo 13y ago

Rite-in-the rain has a nice collection of them too: http://www.riteintherain.com/inventory.asp?CatId={07D475E2-B68D-4D45-B646-B82223E119DE} http://www.riteintherain.com/inventory.asp?CatId={07D475E2-B...