4 ms·

Before anyone gets too excited, let's remember that this is also the country where the people voted against raising the required paid holidays (2012), for subst

by psuter 13y ago

Before anyone gets too excited, let's remember that this is also the country where the people voted against raising the required paid holidays (2012), for substantial cuts in unemployment allowances (2010), and for increasing the VAT (2009), just to give some recent examples. Regardless of its merits, it is going to be nearly impossible to gather popular support for an idea such as basic income. But hey, at least we'll talk about it.

zalew 13y ago
> just to give some recent examples and the most recent (not necessarily on topic) http://idpc.net/alerts/2013/09/switzerland-decriminalises-cannabis http://idpc.net/alerts/2013/09/switzerland-decriminalises-ca...
- psuter 13y ago
  That was not through referendum, though. The dynamics are very different. Interestingly enough, when asked, the parliament tends to be more open to change and experimentation than the people.
  - zalew 13y ago
    Yeah, I've stayed in Bern a few times in the 90s and I got a sentiment for it so I take a glance now and then what's going on, and the referendal results are often ridiculously surprising. The weed situation IMO for years has been the weirdest ever, since Swiss have the most liberal and practical drug treatment policies I know of, and AFAIK a high percentage of citizens admits to smoking joints. It looked like people just don't gave a crap enough to legalize it and after a few tries just gave up pushing it. How does it look like on the ground from a Swiss' perspective?
    - romac 13y ago
      "From October 1 [2013], an adult caught smoking cannabis in Switzerland can escape formal legal proceedings by simply paying a fine." http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/swiss_news/Mixed_feelings_over_new_Swiss_cannabis_law.html?cid=36977488 http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/swiss_news/Mixed_feelings_over_n...
ojii 13y ago
Yes we Swiss have this weird habit of voting against things that look like they would be a benefit for us (in the short term). I voted against more paid holidays as I think 4 weeks (minimum) is enough and forcing everyone to raise it to 5 would hurt the economy. Similarly I'd vote against this proposed bill if I still lived in Switzerland as I don't see how it could work, despite it being generally an intriguing idea.
- psuter 13y ago
  We were going for 6, actually :P
  - ojii 13y ago
    Ah my bad, only a year ago and I already forgot (we do vote 4 times a year though, so hard to keep track of everything). 6 is even sillier in my opinion.
- ddoolin 13y ago
  Now I'm curious about the possibility of immigrating to Switzerland... Ha. Sort of seriously.
  - seanmcdirmid 13y ago
    Get a job there first, it's not hard to get a sponsored working visa and Swiss has a high amount of foreign workers. Work there for 10 years then have the canton vote for your citizenship, if it's a big canton it might just be a committee; they'll inspect your house to make sure you are Swiss enough. You should master one Swiss language quickly (whatever canton you are in), and should probably brush up on another. Edit: it might not be the canton that votes for you, but the commune. I get these confused all the time.
  - zalew 13y ago
    Just keep in mind you may get a fine for taking a shower late in the evening. And that you most friendly neighbor will turn into a snitch after any violation of yours, especially since you're an auslander. I mean, Switzerland is a lovely country, but some laws regarding cohabitation around there are really anal. On the flipside, whenever my neighbor starts mowning his damn lawn when I'm healing my hangover on sunday, I wish I was there. Grass is greener on the other side. In general, it's a gorgeous country.
marcosdumay 13y ago
> raising the required paid holidays And thus reducing the part of the salary they get in monetary form. > cuts in unemployment allowances And thus increasing the part of the salary they get in monetary form. > increasing the VAT And thus making space for more government spending. Those not as clear-cut propositions as you comment imply, and I'm now impressed by the amount of maturity the swiss population just displayed by making those calculations. I guess when you put some responsibility into the hand of The People, they stop acting like irresponsible children.

by psuter 13y ago

zalew 13y ago

> just to give some recent examples and the most recent (not necessarily on topic) http://idpc.net/alerts/2013/09/switzerland-decriminalises-cannabis http://idpc.net/alerts/2013/09/switzerland-decriminalises-ca...

psuter 13y ago
That was not through referendum, though. The dynamics are very different. Interestingly enough, when asked, the parliament tends to be more open to change and experimentation than the people.
- zalew 13y ago
  Yeah, I've stayed in Bern a few times in the 90s and I got a sentiment for it so I take a glance now and then what's going on, and the referendal results are often ridiculously surprising. The weed situation IMO for years has been the weirdest ever, since Swiss have the most liberal and practical drug treatment policies I know of, and AFAIK a high percentage of citizens admits to smoking joints. It looked like people just don't gave a crap enough to legalize it and after a few tries just gave up pushing it. How does it look like on the ground from a Swiss' perspective?
  - romac 13y ago
    "From October 1 [2013], an adult caught smoking cannabis in Switzerland can escape formal legal proceedings by simply paying a fine." http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/swiss_news/Mixed_feelings_over_new_Swiss_cannabis_law.html?cid=36977488 http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/swiss_news/Mixed_feelings_over_n...

ojii 13y ago

Yes we Swiss have this weird habit of voting against things that look like they would be a benefit for us (in the short term). I voted against more paid holidays as I think 4 weeks (minimum) is enough and forcing everyone to raise it to 5 would hurt the economy. Similarly I'd vote against this proposed bill if I still lived in Switzerland as I don't see how it could work, despite it being generally an intriguing idea.

psuter 13y ago
We were going for 6, actually :P
- ojii 13y ago
  Ah my bad, only a year ago and I already forgot (we do vote 4 times a year though, so hard to keep track of everything). 6 is even sillier in my opinion.
ddoolin 13y ago
Now I'm curious about the possibility of immigrating to Switzerland... Ha. Sort of seriously.
- seanmcdirmid 13y ago
  Get a job there first, it's not hard to get a sponsored working visa and Swiss has a high amount of foreign workers. Work there for 10 years then have the canton vote for your citizenship, if it's a big canton it might just be a committee; they'll inspect your house to make sure you are Swiss enough. You should master one Swiss language quickly (whatever canton you are in), and should probably brush up on another. Edit: it might not be the canton that votes for you, but the commune. I get these confused all the time.
- zalew 13y ago
  Just keep in mind you may get a fine for taking a shower late in the evening. And that you most friendly neighbor will turn into a snitch after any violation of yours, especially since you're an auslander. I mean, Switzerland is a lovely country, but some laws regarding cohabitation around there are really anal. On the flipside, whenever my neighbor starts mowning his damn lawn when I'm healing my hangover on sunday, I wish I was there. Grass is greener on the other side. In general, it's a gorgeous country.

marcosdumay 13y ago

> raising the required paid holidays And thus reducing the part of the salary they get in monetary form. > cuts in unemployment allowances And thus increasing the part of the salary they get in monetary form. > increasing the VAT And thus making space for more government spending. Those not as clear-cut propositions as you comment imply, and I'm now impressed by the amount of maturity the swiss population just displayed by making those calculations. I guess when you put some responsibility into the hand of The People, they stop acting like irresponsible children.