8 ms·

Microsoft Corporation sponsors IPython

150 points by mtct 13y ago

jofer 13y ago
Also see the Numfocus mailing list discussion on this for a touch more detail, if you're interested: https://groups.google.com/d/msg/numfocus/h8qfxqlFu0k/fGLxAgOZ2FcJ https://groups.google.com/d/msg/numfocus/h8qfxqlFu0k/fGLxAgO...
polskibus 13y ago
While you're at it, dear Microsoft, please rekindle IronPython development! UPDATE: I've just noticed a new IronPython release after more than a year! Is that a sign of things to come ?
- smortaz 13y ago
  Microsoft has not been directly involved with IronPython for several years now. the community is active and doing well. we do fully support it in Python Tools for Visual Studio and lurk on the alias to answer questions. We're committed to continuing support in PTVS.
zokier 13y ago
That must have been one hell of a demo: http://www.reddit.com/r/Python/comments/1n72bm/microsoft_donates_100000_to_the_ipython_team/ccg1eez http://www.reddit.com/r/Python/comments/1n72bm/microsoft_don... > Basically the PTVS team did a demo of IPython for Microsoft Research big cheeses and asked them to consider donating (used Z3Py theorem prover for the demo). At the end of the hour they were ready to cut the check.
- smortaz 13y ago
  i am the guilty party. it was an all up talk + demo of IPython on Azure (on a linux VM!), with the punchline delivered using one of MSR's own libraries (z3), wrapped w Python API's (by leonardo de moura). the big cheeses at the mtg were tony hey (VP) & dennis gannon. i had been encouraging them to do more w python at MSR (research work, wrap existing libs with python, etc.) for a while and everything just came together on that day. i should say that the real credit goes to the IPython team as it demos really really well :). the donation comes w no strings attached & they can spend it any way they want.
  - fperez_org 13y ago
    The work @smortaz and the PTVS team have done with IPython over the years is awesome, and we're really very thankful for this!
dep_b 13y ago
Could someone enlighten me on the special status Python seems to enjoy inside Microsoft? It's pretty well supported for something that is not invented by Microsoft.
- untog 13y ago
  They also support node.js, from what I recall. And you can use PHP on Azure.
  - stekoz 13y ago
    And especially Drupal.
  - awad 13y ago
    From what I hear, Node is getting a lot of love (all things considered) at Microsoft and especially at Azure.
  - jmspring 13y ago
    If you look at http://www.windowsazure.com/en-us/downloads/ http://www.windowsazure.com/en-us/downloads/ Azure supports (in varying degrees): .NET, node.js, php, java, python, and ruby. It also has CLI tools for linux and osx. If you look into the Azure docs, you will see that many of the services have an XML definition that can certainly be implemented on differing platforms. VS also appears to get some love including additional JS support, PVTS, etc.
- smortaz 13y ago
  as untog mentioned, since Azure came on the scene, a whole bunch of new languages and runtimes have been supported: java, python, php, node.js, hadoop, ... even linux. i'd say that from a visual studio perspective Python is the best oss/non-msft language that's currently supported.
  - profquail 13y ago
    Microsoft has also contributed Hyper-V drivers to FreeBSD 10, presumably to allow FreeBSD servers to run on Azure: http://forums.freebsd.org/showthread.php?t=38019 http://forums.freebsd.org/showthread.php?t=38019
primelens 13y ago
I've been amazed at how compelling a platform IPython - especially the notebook format - has become. On the R front, RStudio also seems to be getting better quite rapidly.
- RodericDay 13y ago
  agreed. it's insanely good, I wish I had it when I was doing my B.Eng.
Pxtl 13y ago
Of course. MS supports Python in Azure, too... they seem to be embracing Python in general into the Microsoft ecosystem.
- georgemcbay 13y ago
  Microsoft's Merchant Server (precursor to Commerce Server) was primarily written in Python and shipped in 1996. This is due to the fact that they acquired eShop for the software, a company co-founded by Greg Stein (who is pretty well known in the Python community). Python has been fairly well embraced by some parts of Microsoft for quite a while now, and while some of that support has come and gone over the years (eg. IronPython), they still have projects like Python Tools for Visual Studio which are very solid.
  - sanxiyn 13y ago
    Dino Viehland, who works on Python Tools for Visual Studio, used to work on IronPython. No doubt knowledge gained implementing the language helps with implementing development tools...
  - taude 13y ago
    This is all true. There were early ODBC drivers and COM wrappers for Python, too, back in this time period.
- phildini 13y ago
  You can build Django apps in Visual Studio now. The end is nigh.
  - spongle 13y ago
    Yes Django developers can get your hourly dose of not responding alert bubbles, HRESULT crashes and upper case menus as well! I spent a couple of hours with visual studio python tooling a couple of months ago and couldn't face it. Its not the extensions that are bad, it's just I've been using Visual Studio since 6.0 up to 2012 and it's just fucked me in the eye socket constantly since day one. I've only just got rid of the sympathy for the kidnapper of my mind.
adrianlmm 13y ago
I suppose MS is using IPython internaly.
- nbevans 13y ago
  Always a conspiracy on HN when it involves Microsoft, eh?
  - bostonpete 13y ago
    Why is it a conspiracy theory to infer that if Microsoft is supporting a technology financially that they're likely using it internally (or planning to)? MS isn't a charity...
    - deleted 13y ago
      [deleted]
    - seanmcdirmid 13y ago
      The grant supposedly comes from Microsoft Research Connections. They give grants all the time to projects (usually at universities), I've (as a MSR researcher) even been involved in a one before with KAIST concerning a JavaScript related topic. Interest alignment is quite flexible.
      - fperez_org 13y ago
        Note that this is a donation, not a grant. The legal terms are completely different.
        seanmcdirmid 13y ago
        Thanks for the clarification. Note that I'm a researcher, not a lawyer! We participate in relationships that involve money going from us to others, the nature of which I'm not very clear about but the right people are. I'll be careful about my terminology in the future.
vgoklani 13y ago
$100k ??? really, is that a joke? that's basically half of one senior developers salary, and in exchange they get positive press + support for their platform.
- jlarocco 13y ago
  It's $100k more than they had to give and almost certainly more than you've contributed...
- tekknik 13y ago
  $100k goes a long way when most developers are expecting to do the work for free.
  - takluyver 13y ago
    And salaries in academia aren't all that high. I'm one of the lucky people being paid to work on IPython (from another grant), and while I'm not a senior developer, $100k would cover my salary for well over a year.
- fperez_org 13y ago
  a) it's $100k we didn't have, and which we greatly appreciate. We have a 'donate' button on the site, but that's basically a few dollars a day, more or less. It will pay for pizza for a sprint every few months, and that's about it. b) we've supported Windows for years, money or not. The core team isn't made of Windows experts, so our support may not be always ideal, but we always test on Windows, have Windows CI running, and always release Windows installers. Windows is widely used and we want the experience there to be as solid as possible. The money was a donation, no strings attached (under US law it can't have strings attached, since it's a donation to a 501c3).
  - vvvVVVvvv 13y ago
    Props to you lads for the hard work. Don't let the naysayers drag you down.
- 13y ago
teh_klev 13y ago
For anyone who's interested, Scott Hanselman recently interviewed one of the Python tools team, well worth a listen: http://www.hanselminutes.com/384/python-tools-for-visual-studio-with-dino-viehland http://www.hanselminutes.com/384/python-tools-for-visual-stu...

150 points by mtct 13y ago

jofer 13y ago

Also see the Numfocus mailing list discussion on this for a touch more detail, if you're interested: https://groups.google.com/d/msg/numfocus/h8qfxqlFu0k/fGLxAgOZ2FcJ https://groups.google.com/d/msg/numfocus/h8qfxqlFu0k/fGLxAgO...

polskibus 13y ago

While you're at it, dear Microsoft, please rekindle IronPython development! UPDATE: I've just noticed a new IronPython release after more than a year! Is that a sign of things to come ?

smortaz 13y ago
Microsoft has not been directly involved with IronPython for several years now. the community is active and doing well. we do fully support it in Python Tools for Visual Studio and lurk on the alias to answer questions. We're committed to continuing support in PTVS.

zokier 13y ago

That must have been one hell of a demo: http://www.reddit.com/r/Python/comments/1n72bm/microsoft_donates_100000_to_the_ipython_team/ccg1eez http://www.reddit.com/r/Python/comments/1n72bm/microsoft_don... > Basically the PTVS team did a demo of IPython for Microsoft Research big cheeses and asked them to consider donating (used Z3Py theorem prover for the demo). At the end of the hour they were ready to cut the check.

smortaz 13y ago
i am the guilty party. it was an all up talk + demo of IPython on Azure (on a linux VM!), with the punchline delivered using one of MSR's own libraries (z3), wrapped w Python API's (by leonardo de moura). the big cheeses at the mtg were tony hey (VP) & dennis gannon. i had been encouraging them to do more w python at MSR (research work, wrap existing libs with python, etc.) for a while and everything just came together on that day. i should say that the real credit goes to the IPython team as it demos really really well :). the donation comes w no strings attached & they can spend it any way they want.
- fperez_org 13y ago
  The work @smortaz and the PTVS team have done with IPython over the years is awesome, and we're really very thankful for this!

dep_b 13y ago

Could someone enlighten me on the special status Python seems to enjoy inside Microsoft? It's pretty well supported for something that is not invented by Microsoft.

untog 13y ago
They also support node.js, from what I recall. And you can use PHP on Azure.
- stekoz 13y ago
  And especially Drupal.
- awad 13y ago
  From what I hear, Node is getting a lot of love (all things considered) at Microsoft and especially at Azure.
- jmspring 13y ago
  If you look at http://www.windowsazure.com/en-us/downloads/ http://www.windowsazure.com/en-us/downloads/ Azure supports (in varying degrees): .NET, node.js, php, java, python, and ruby. It also has CLI tools for linux and osx. If you look into the Azure docs, you will see that many of the services have an XML definition that can certainly be implemented on differing platforms. VS also appears to get some love including additional JS support, PVTS, etc.
smortaz 13y ago
as untog mentioned, since Azure came on the scene, a whole bunch of new languages and runtimes have been supported: java, python, php, node.js, hadoop, ... even linux. i'd say that from a visual studio perspective Python is the best oss/non-msft language that's currently supported.
- profquail 13y ago
  Microsoft has also contributed Hyper-V drivers to FreeBSD 10, presumably to allow FreeBSD servers to run on Azure: http://forums.freebsd.org/showthread.php?t=38019 http://forums.freebsd.org/showthread.php?t=38019

primelens 13y ago

I've been amazed at how compelling a platform IPython - especially the notebook format - has become. On the R front, RStudio also seems to be getting better quite rapidly.

RodericDay 13y ago
agreed. it's insanely good, I wish I had it when I was doing my B.Eng.

Pxtl 13y ago

Of course. MS supports Python in Azure, too... they seem to be embracing Python in general into the Microsoft ecosystem.

georgemcbay 13y ago
Microsoft's Merchant Server (precursor to Commerce Server) was primarily written in Python and shipped in 1996. This is due to the fact that they acquired eShop for the software, a company co-founded by Greg Stein (who is pretty well known in the Python community). Python has been fairly well embraced by some parts of Microsoft for quite a while now, and while some of that support has come and gone over the years (eg. IronPython), they still have projects like Python Tools for Visual Studio which are very solid.
- sanxiyn 13y ago
  Dino Viehland, who works on Python Tools for Visual Studio, used to work on IronPython. No doubt knowledge gained implementing the language helps with implementing development tools...
- taude 13y ago
  This is all true. There were early ODBC drivers and COM wrappers for Python, too, back in this time period.
phildini 13y ago
You can build Django apps in Visual Studio now. The end is nigh.
- spongle 13y ago
  Yes Django developers can get your hourly dose of not responding alert bubbles, HRESULT crashes and upper case menus as well! I spent a couple of hours with visual studio python tooling a couple of months ago and couldn't face it. Its not the extensions that are bad, it's just I've been using Visual Studio since 6.0 up to 2012 and it's just fucked me in the eye socket constantly since day one. I've only just got rid of the sympathy for the kidnapper of my mind.

adrianlmm 13y ago

I suppose MS is using IPython internaly.

nbevans 13y ago
Always a conspiracy on HN when it involves Microsoft, eh?
- bostonpete 13y ago
  Why is it a conspiracy theory to infer that if Microsoft is supporting a technology financially that they're likely using it internally (or planning to)? MS isn't a charity...
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
  - seanmcdirmid 13y ago
    The grant supposedly comes from Microsoft Research Connections. They give grants all the time to projects (usually at universities), I've (as a MSR researcher) even been involved in a one before with KAIST concerning a JavaScript related topic. Interest alignment is quite flexible.
    - fperez_org 13y ago
      Note that this is a donation, not a grant. The legal terms are completely different.
      - seanmcdirmid 13y ago
        Thanks for the clarification. Note that I'm a researcher, not a lawyer! We participate in relationships that involve money going from us to others, the nature of which I'm not very clear about but the right people are. I'll be careful about my terminology in the future.

vgoklani 13y ago

$100k ??? really, is that a joke? that's basically half of one senior developers salary, and in exchange they get positive press + support for their platform.

jlarocco 13y ago
It's $100k more than they had to give and almost certainly more than you've contributed...
tekknik 13y ago
$100k goes a long way when most developers are expecting to do the work for free.
- takluyver 13y ago
  And salaries in academia aren't all that high. I'm one of the lucky people being paid to work on IPython (from another grant), and while I'm not a senior developer, $100k would cover my salary for well over a year.
fperez_org 13y ago
a) it's $100k we didn't have, and which we greatly appreciate. We have a 'donate' button on the site, but that's basically a few dollars a day, more or less. It will pay for pizza for a sprint every few months, and that's about it. b) we've supported Windows for years, money or not. The core team isn't made of Windows experts, so our support may not be always ideal, but we always test on Windows, have Windows CI running, and always release Windows installers. Windows is widely used and we want the experience there to be as solid as possible. The money was a donation, no strings attached (under US law it can't have strings attached, since it's a donation to a 501c3).
- vvvVVVvvv 13y ago
  Props to you lads for the hard work. Don't let the naysayers drag you down.
13y ago

teh_klev 13y ago

For anyone who's interested, Scott Hanselman recently interviewed one of the Python tools team, well worth a listen: http://www.hanselminutes.com/384/python-tools-for-visual-studio-with-dino-viehland http://www.hanselminutes.com/384/python-tools-for-visual-stu...