13 ms·

I think that makes sense -- a lot of Google's (paying) clients have been using Adobe (formerly Macromedia) Flash to make ads for years; if Google wants them to

by cbhl 13y ago

I think that makes sense -- a lot of Google's (paying) clients have been using Adobe (formerly Macromedia) Flash to make ads for years; if Google wants them to adopt HTML5 technology they need to make tools that are as easy to use as Flash was.

Samuel_Michon 13y ago
Adobe has Edge Animate for that and Adobe Flash can export to HTML5 as well. http://html.adobe.com/edge/animate/ http://html.adobe.com/edge/animate/
- camus 13y ago
  Given Adobe track record on betrayal, and borderline extorsion schemes , I would not even touch their tools anymore. They had they chance with Flash,Dreamweaver and Fireworks... Flash = almost dead Dreamweaver = Zombie mod Fireworks = Dead despite its powerfull features like jquerymobile skinning,project files as png files,games graphics, native app design, easily customizable through js. Thank you Elop (who sold MM to Adobe ), thank you Adobe.
  - lostPixels 13y ago
    As a former Flash Developer, I will never put my time and money into learning Adobe software again.
    - exodust 13y ago
      Don't blame Adobe if your Flash banners were crap. "Adobe software" is broad, covering a lot of ground. You're turning your back on the whole lot? Sounds irrational. Maybe check out this new Google tool, and see how you feel after about 10 minutes.
      - camus 13y ago
        Using closed source tools is about trust. When the trust is broken, nothing can get it back. That's what happened with Adobe and Developpers , they totally lost that market.
        dgesang 13y ago
        Sent from your iPhone? ;)
      - Marazan 13y ago
        He isn't refusing to put time into learning Adobe tech because they produced bad code, he's refusing to put time in because Adobe knifed the Flex development community in the back. Then in the front. Then stabbed them in the back again.
  - keyle 13y ago
    No offence but I still make 5 figures using Flash/Flex/AIR for Fortune 100 companies. Flex with IntelliJ beats the javascript crap sauce anyone tries to push down my throat. The VM is extremely capable (yet terrible advertised and documented) and the language is superb and easily approachable. If Adobe wasn't such a butt hole* at PR, we'd be in a different situation. *:understand that Adobe shot itself in the foot in every possible way in the last 3 years.
    - alanh 13y ago
      “5 figures” hardly seems notable…
      - seabee 13y ago
        The upper end of five figures is perfectly respectable for that kind of work. I can't imagine people with Adobe product experience are in such short supply to warrant six figures...
        iguana 13y ago
        In the bay area, Flex devs make > $100/hour, pretty much implying a 6 figure annual rate. Maybe the 5 figures are from another area or country. As a former Flex developer, I must admit that Flex was the best thing that ever happened to web development, but unfortunately the Flash team wasn't strong enough to bring the runtime to mobile with enough quality. Building a RIA in Flex was so incredibly easy, and debugging was easy, and you really could use anything you wanted for a backend (I've used Perl, PHP, and Java). Bidirectional data binding, an excellent widget library, and a lot of help from the default IDE (custom build of Eclipse) allowed me to build software, full stack, with an engineering team of 1 on a weekly release cycle. I've spent more time debugging HTML5/JS/CSS than building entire applications in Flex. The AdvancedDataGrid component alone was worth the price of admission.
        indubitably 13y ago
        You guys are so far out of touch with the reality of most people.
  - dgesang 13y ago
    As if Google had such a clean slate ... please ...
  - at-fates-hands 13y ago
    >>>> Fireworks = Dead despite its powerfull features like jquerymobile skinning,project files as png files,games graphics, native app design, easily customizable through js. Agreed. I started doing a lot of projects in Fireworks because of how powerful and flexible it is. I actually stopped using Illustrator and Photoshop and was using Fireworks exclusively. I was really pissed when they killed it after the Creative Cloud. Money grubbing scum.
krsunny 13y ago
I never thought flash was all that easy to use. I could never get the timeline to cooperate with what I was trying to do (drag/copy/paste frames etc)
- andybak 13y ago
  The Flash timeline was counterintuitive but once you grokked it, it was super easy and super efficient. I came to Flash from After Effects (much more intuitive keyframing) and hated Flash until my brain clicked with it.
  - michaelbuddy 13y ago
    the flash timeline has poor visual cues on it as to what was going on. key frames area easy enough to get. but sometimes the timeline ends in a dash pattern, then there's the multiple open and closed ends on one timeline. All in all there are just too many states. Live motion was a good tool that just never got out of a buggy state but had an easier timeline to work in.
- gwdengineer 13y ago
  Hi, You can create animations in Google Web Designer in two modes, Quick mode and Advanced mode. In Quick mode, you build your animation scene by scene: you add a new view of the entire page, change the elements you want to animate, and, optionally, modify your transition times and easings. For more complex animation, Advanced mode lets you individually animate each of the the elements, optionally modifying transition times and easing as well. Advanced mode also shows layers, which let you change where each element is in the stack of elements. Check out more information on how to use the two different timeline modes in our help center: https://support.google.com/webdesigner/topic/3181123?hl=en&ref_topic=3227692 https://support.google.com/webdesigner/topic/3181123?hl=en&r... Thanks, Google Web Designer team
  - alternize 13y ago
    the first two links on that help center page result in 404s: "In Quick mode, you ..." (https://support.google.com/webdesigner/topic/3227054 https://support.google.com/webdesigner/topic/3227054) and "... animation, Advanced mode lets ..." (https://support.google.com/webdesigner/topic/3228643 https://support.google.com/webdesigner/topic/3228643)
tumultco 13y ago
That's the purpose of my startup :); we've been making an HTML5 animation tool for OS X for the last two years: http://tumult.com/hype/ http://tumult.com/hype/
- anarchy8 13y ago
  How do you feel about having Google as a direct competitor?
  - atburrow 13y ago
    Maybe an acquisition is in their near future.
  - tumultco 13y ago
    Google itself doesn't scare me; it is really just team vs. team. I think we've got the best product and engineering expertise for this market. Clearly I'm biased :) so I'd encourage anyone to try Tumult Hype and let us know your thoughts (we've got a fully functional 14-day trial on the site). While Google hasn't announced pricing, it is probably safe to say it is going to be free. This is a business for us, so we charge $29.99. I don't like competing against free, but that just means we'll be continually pushed to provide that much more value!
    - svtiger 13y ago
      Keep up the good work! From first glance your product seems to have superior functionality and usability. So I'd gladly pay for ease of use alone.
    - edraferi 13y ago
      Great attitude. Best of luck!
    - beernutz 13y ago
      I would love to check out your product, but it only runs on OSX. You might consider a port to drastically expand your potential client base. Google's free offering is cross platform already.
jcvangent 13y ago
It is not the problem with people creating the ads that they don't want to create HTML5 banners. The problem lies with most media buying agencies that won't accept them for reasons like their system is not ready to handle this (HTML5) yet or the most heard reason that they want Flash banners even with old versions of Action Script because they seem harder to block by ad-blockers and thus think that more people will watch them. They forget the fact that most people are annoyed with them also ;-) If you create a truly brilliant ad which is targeted to the right audience and let them do something with your brand inside the ad for example people are more willing to view them in my opinion in stead of just forcing them the same old banner over and over again only with a different brand in them..
- GhotiFish 13y ago
  >because they seem harder to block by ad-blockers and thus think that more people will watch them. Do companies actually believe this? Flash is the easiest to remove of all ads. "If you create a truly brilliant ad which is targeted to the right audience and let them do something with your brand inside the ad for example people are more willing to view them in my opinion in stead of just forcing them the same old banner over and over again only with a different brand in them." I have a lot of sympathy for the outreach companies trying to make advertising agencies behave. At some point, someone's neurons started firing and realized consumers had taken control over how they view media. Someone realized that eventually advertisements were going to be viewed of the users volition. Which meant they no longer could be deceitful, obnoxious, baiting, terrible, and rude. Or at least not transparently so. Unfortunately the industry was built on the grounds that the users had no choice, so the notion of good advertising I think will never come. Old men in stuffy suits don't change unless they go bankrupt.

by cbhl 13y ago

Samuel_Michon 13y ago

Adobe has Edge Animate for that and Adobe Flash can export to HTML5 as well. http://html.adobe.com/edge/animate/ http://html.adobe.com/edge/animate/

camus 13y ago
Given Adobe track record on betrayal, and borderline extorsion schemes , I would not even touch their tools anymore. They had they chance with Flash,Dreamweaver and Fireworks... Flash = almost dead Dreamweaver = Zombie mod Fireworks = Dead despite its powerfull features like jquerymobile skinning,project files as png files,games graphics, native app design, easily customizable through js. Thank you Elop (who sold MM to Adobe ), thank you Adobe.
- lostPixels 13y ago
  As a former Flash Developer, I will never put my time and money into learning Adobe software again.
  - exodust 13y ago
    Don't blame Adobe if your Flash banners were crap. "Adobe software" is broad, covering a lot of ground. You're turning your back on the whole lot? Sounds irrational. Maybe check out this new Google tool, and see how you feel after about 10 minutes.
    - camus 13y ago
      Using closed source tools is about trust. When the trust is broken, nothing can get it back. That's what happened with Adobe and Developpers , they totally lost that market.
      - dgesang 13y ago
        Sent from your iPhone? ;)
    - Marazan 13y ago
      He isn't refusing to put time into learning Adobe tech because they produced bad code, he's refusing to put time in because Adobe knifed the Flex development community in the back. Then in the front. Then stabbed them in the back again.
- keyle 13y ago
  No offence but I still make 5 figures using Flash/Flex/AIR for Fortune 100 companies. Flex with IntelliJ beats the javascript crap sauce anyone tries to push down my throat. The VM is extremely capable (yet terrible advertised and documented) and the language is superb and easily approachable. If Adobe wasn't such a butt hole* at PR, we'd be in a different situation. *:understand that Adobe shot itself in the foot in every possible way in the last 3 years.
  - alanh 13y ago
    “5 figures” hardly seems notable…
    - seabee 13y ago
      The upper end of five figures is perfectly respectable for that kind of work. I can't imagine people with Adobe product experience are in such short supply to warrant six figures...
      - iguana 13y ago
        In the bay area, Flex devs make > $100/hour, pretty much implying a 6 figure annual rate. Maybe the 5 figures are from another area or country. As a former Flex developer, I must admit that Flex was the best thing that ever happened to web development, but unfortunately the Flash team wasn't strong enough to bring the runtime to mobile with enough quality. Building a RIA in Flex was so incredibly easy, and debugging was easy, and you really could use anything you wanted for a backend (I've used Perl, PHP, and Java). Bidirectional data binding, an excellent widget library, and a lot of help from the default IDE (custom build of Eclipse) allowed me to build software, full stack, with an engineering team of 1 on a weekly release cycle. I've spent more time debugging HTML5/JS/CSS than building entire applications in Flex. The AdvancedDataGrid component alone was worth the price of admission.
        indubitably 13y ago
        You guys are so far out of touch with the reality of most people.
- dgesang 13y ago
  As if Google had such a clean slate ... please ...
- at-fates-hands 13y ago
  >>>> Fireworks = Dead despite its powerfull features like jquerymobile skinning,project files as png files,games graphics, native app design, easily customizable through js. Agreed. I started doing a lot of projects in Fireworks because of how powerful and flexible it is. I actually stopped using Illustrator and Photoshop and was using Fireworks exclusively. I was really pissed when they killed it after the Creative Cloud. Money grubbing scum.

krsunny 13y ago

I never thought flash was all that easy to use. I could never get the timeline to cooperate with what I was trying to do (drag/copy/paste frames etc)

andybak 13y ago
The Flash timeline was counterintuitive but once you grokked it, it was super easy and super efficient. I came to Flash from After Effects (much more intuitive keyframing) and hated Flash until my brain clicked with it.
- michaelbuddy 13y ago
  the flash timeline has poor visual cues on it as to what was going on. key frames area easy enough to get. but sometimes the timeline ends in a dash pattern, then there's the multiple open and closed ends on one timeline. All in all there are just too many states. Live motion was a good tool that just never got out of a buggy state but had an easier timeline to work in.
gwdengineer 13y ago
Hi, You can create animations in Google Web Designer in two modes, Quick mode and Advanced mode. In Quick mode, you build your animation scene by scene: you add a new view of the entire page, change the elements you want to animate, and, optionally, modify your transition times and easings. For more complex animation, Advanced mode lets you individually animate each of the the elements, optionally modifying transition times and easing as well. Advanced mode also shows layers, which let you change where each element is in the stack of elements. Check out more information on how to use the two different timeline modes in our help center: https://support.google.com/webdesigner/topic/3181123?hl=en&ref_topic=3227692 https://support.google.com/webdesigner/topic/3181123?hl=en&r... Thanks, Google Web Designer team
- alternize 13y ago
  the first two links on that help center page result in 404s: "In Quick mode, you ..." (https://support.google.com/webdesigner/topic/3227054 https://support.google.com/webdesigner/topic/3227054) and "... animation, Advanced mode lets ..." (https://support.google.com/webdesigner/topic/3228643 https://support.google.com/webdesigner/topic/3228643)

tumultco 13y ago

That's the purpose of my startup :); we've been making an HTML5 animation tool for OS X for the last two years: http://tumult.com/hype/ http://tumult.com/hype/

anarchy8 13y ago
How do you feel about having Google as a direct competitor?
- atburrow 13y ago
  Maybe an acquisition is in their near future.
- tumultco 13y ago
  Google itself doesn't scare me; it is really just team vs. team. I think we've got the best product and engineering expertise for this market. Clearly I'm biased :) so I'd encourage anyone to try Tumult Hype and let us know your thoughts (we've got a fully functional 14-day trial on the site). While Google hasn't announced pricing, it is probably safe to say it is going to be free. This is a business for us, so we charge $29.99. I don't like competing against free, but that just means we'll be continually pushed to provide that much more value!
  - svtiger 13y ago
    Keep up the good work! From first glance your product seems to have superior functionality and usability. So I'd gladly pay for ease of use alone.
  - edraferi 13y ago
    Great attitude. Best of luck!
  - beernutz 13y ago
    I would love to check out your product, but it only runs on OSX. You might consider a port to drastically expand your potential client base. Google's free offering is cross platform already.

jcvangent 13y ago

It is not the problem with people creating the ads that they don't want to create HTML5 banners. The problem lies with most media buying agencies that won't accept them for reasons like their system is not ready to handle this (HTML5) yet or the most heard reason that they want Flash banners even with old versions of Action Script because they seem harder to block by ad-blockers and thus think that more people will watch them. They forget the fact that most people are annoyed with them also ;-) If you create a truly brilliant ad which is targeted to the right audience and let them do something with your brand inside the ad for example people are more willing to view them in my opinion in stead of just forcing them the same old banner over and over again only with a different brand in them..

GhotiFish 13y ago
>because they seem harder to block by ad-blockers and thus think that more people will watch them. Do companies actually believe this? Flash is the easiest to remove of all ads. "If you create a truly brilliant ad which is targeted to the right audience and let them do something with your brand inside the ad for example people are more willing to view them in my opinion in stead of just forcing them the same old banner over and over again only with a different brand in them." I have a lot of sympathy for the outreach companies trying to make advertising agencies behave. At some point, someone's neurons started firing and realized consumers had taken control over how they view media. Someone realized that eventually advertisements were going to be viewed of the users volition. Which meant they no longer could be deceitful, obnoxious, baiting, terrible, and rude. Or at least not transparently so. Unfortunately the industry was built on the grounds that the users had no choice, so the notion of good advertising I think will never come. Old men in stuffy suits don't change unless they go bankrupt.