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Amazon do basically the same thing with their prime membership, although they do refund if you notice and complain early enough (offer a free month and then sta

by ds_ 13y ago

Amazon do basically the same thing with their prime membership, although they do refund if you notice and complain early enough (offer a free month and then start charging unless you opt out, whilst making it far from obvious that you have to do so).

smsm42 13y ago
Amazon explicitly says it's a paid program that costs money and you have to explicitly join it through process separate from buying stuff. Offering free trial period and then charging is very standard approach, automatically enrolling with sale is not.
- ds_ 13y ago
  They were offering it with a purchase (as a way of getting free shipping), if I remember correctly. Alright, I wasn't automatically enrolled, I had to check a box. It was still deliberately misleading.
skelsey 13y ago
Prime is a membership. It even has it in the name! How is that the same level of misleading?
- ds_ 13y ago
  It was offered with a purchase as a way of getting free shipping. It was not at all clear to me that I would have to opt out rather than my membership just being cancelled unless I paid a fee. It felt deliberately misleading and it seemed many shared my surprise when I went looking for complaints afterwards.
vvvVVVvvv 13y ago
The other difference worth noticing is that albeit being a bit unclear, Amazon's Prime is far to be as shady as JustFab's darkpattern since there's a huge modal window popping during the order.
- ds_ 13y ago
  Perhaps I shouldn't have said 'basically the same thing'. They both deliberately mislead users into subscribing, Amazon is just more subtle.
  - alan_cx 13y ago
    It is nothing to do with doing the same thing or offering the same service, its about how its is sold to unsuspecting customers.
  - CamperBob2 13y ago
    Perhaps you shouldn't have.
ds_ 13y ago
There was already a refund request process in place, preempting the inevitable complaints. They knew they were misleading people so they could make money on the back of those that aren't too attentive to their bank statements. I suppose everyone down-voting me thinks that's just great?
- GrinningFool 13y ago
  Nope. EVeryone downmodding is well aware that Amazon doesn't hide the subscription - in plain sight or elsewhere. When you sign up for prime, you know that you're signing up for a subscription service. There's no doubt. Things like "try it free for 30 days" in bold letters make it very clear. I've also never seen a default behavior of enabling prime.
  - ds_ 13y ago
    "Try it free for 30 days" is very different from "Try it free for 30 days but if you don't cancel, we'll charge you from then onwards" - especially when Amazon already have my card on file from previous purchases.
    - GrinningFool 13y ago
      To me it seems implied? "It is free for 30 days but then it is not free anymore." I don't know, maybe I read too much into it - but when I signed up, I was aware that I was both getting 30 days free, and that I would pay for it after. And I don't recall that I had to read any fine print to glean that understanding.
      - ds_ 13y ago
        I may have been naive and I won't make the same mistake again. However, most people are used to trials expiring and being forced to explicitly upgrade to continue using X product. This practice seems scammy because it is something unexpected to a lot of users, and I'm sure whoever came up with it knew full well that people would be misled.
dragonwriter 13y ago
> Amazon do basically the same thing with their prime membership, although they do refund if you notice and complain early enough (offer a free month and then start charging unless you opt out, whilst making it far from obvious that you have to do so). No, its quite obvious that you need to opt out if you don't want to pay -- they explicitly say the membership will be billed to the credit card attached to your account at the end of the free period, and force you to attach a credit card to your account if you don't have one already attached in order to sign up for the free Prime trial -- when you sign up, though its also easy to forget afterwards. But they give you a complete refund anytime in the paid period if you ask, as long as you haven't used any Prime-exclusive benefits during the paid period. And its a zero-friction, click-a-button, cancel-and-get-refund thing.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
AsymetricCom 13y ago
Nice try shady investor.

by ds_ 13y ago

smsm42 13y ago

Amazon explicitly says it's a paid program that costs money and you have to explicitly join it through process separate from buying stuff. Offering free trial period and then charging is very standard approach, automatically enrolling with sale is not.

ds_ 13y ago
They were offering it with a purchase (as a way of getting free shipping), if I remember correctly. Alright, I wasn't automatically enrolled, I had to check a box. It was still deliberately misleading.

skelsey 13y ago

Prime is a membership. It even has it in the name! How is that the same level of misleading?

ds_ 13y ago
It was offered with a purchase as a way of getting free shipping. It was not at all clear to me that I would have to opt out rather than my membership just being cancelled unless I paid a fee. It felt deliberately misleading and it seemed many shared my surprise when I went looking for complaints afterwards.

vvvVVVvvv 13y ago

The other difference worth noticing is that albeit being a bit unclear, Amazon's Prime is far to be as shady as JustFab's darkpattern since there's a huge modal window popping during the order.

ds_ 13y ago
Perhaps I shouldn't have said 'basically the same thing'. They both deliberately mislead users into subscribing, Amazon is just more subtle.
- alan_cx 13y ago
  It is nothing to do with doing the same thing or offering the same service, its about how its is sold to unsuspecting customers.
- CamperBob2 13y ago
  Perhaps you shouldn't have.

ds_ 13y ago

There was already a refund request process in place, preempting the inevitable complaints. They knew they were misleading people so they could make money on the back of those that aren't too attentive to their bank statements. I suppose everyone down-voting me thinks that's just great?

GrinningFool 13y ago
Nope. EVeryone downmodding is well aware that Amazon doesn't hide the subscription - in plain sight or elsewhere. When you sign up for prime, you know that you're signing up for a subscription service. There's no doubt. Things like "try it free for 30 days" in bold letters make it very clear. I've also never seen a default behavior of enabling prime.
- ds_ 13y ago
  "Try it free for 30 days" is very different from "Try it free for 30 days but if you don't cancel, we'll charge you from then onwards" - especially when Amazon already have my card on file from previous purchases.
  - GrinningFool 13y ago
    To me it seems implied? "It is free for 30 days but then it is not free anymore." I don't know, maybe I read too much into it - but when I signed up, I was aware that I was both getting 30 days free, and that I would pay for it after. And I don't recall that I had to read any fine print to glean that understanding.
    - ds_ 13y ago
      I may have been naive and I won't make the same mistake again. However, most people are used to trials expiring and being forced to explicitly upgrade to continue using X product. This practice seems scammy because it is something unexpected to a lot of users, and I'm sure whoever came up with it knew full well that people would be misled.

dragonwriter 13y ago

> Amazon do basically the same thing with their prime membership, although they do refund if you notice and complain early enough (offer a free month and then start charging unless you opt out, whilst making it far from obvious that you have to do so). No, its quite obvious that you need to opt out if you don't want to pay -- they explicitly say the membership will be billed to the credit card attached to your account at the end of the free period, and force you to attach a credit card to your account if you don't have one already attached in order to sign up for the free Prime trial -- when you sign up, though its also easy to forget afterwards. But they give you a complete refund anytime in the paid period if you ask, as long as you haven't used any Prime-exclusive benefits during the paid period. And its a zero-friction, click-a-button, cancel-and-get-refund thing.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

AsymetricCom 13y ago

Nice try shady investor.