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This is effectively the software-only equivalent of a console launch. Is anyone else skeptical that they can motivate publishers to spend time/money porting th

by rkalla 13y ago

This is effectively the software-only equivalent of a console launch. Is anyone else skeptical that they can motivate publishers to spend time/money porting their games to the Linux platform? Valve certainly has a better chance than most at pulling this off (and likely enough user/market data to make this seem like a valid investment) I am still super skeptical that these publishers are going to spend the time porting their AAA releases to this platform. A good chunk of the console games barely make it to PC/Windows as it is, let alone a PC/Linux platform... seems like a tough sell. If the goal is an entertainment OS with streaming and DVR capabilities in addition to the few Linux compatible games on Steam, that's a bit different of a story but not a huge commercial win I don't think (unless they having some amazing partnerships planned with Netflix/Amazon/Vudu/Hulu for streaming that I am not thinking of). If the goal is to make Steam into an entertainment platform (not just games) it is interesting to watch all these platforms converge on this "entertainment delivery pipeline" solution.

corresation 13y ago
http://store.steampowered.com/search/?os=linux http://store.steampowered.com/search/?os=linux Valve has been planning this for a while, and has had pretty good success motivating a lot of smaller publishers to target Linux, even though the base isn't there yet, and of course have moved their own incredibly valuable games to Linux. Major game engines (Unreal 3D, Unity, among others) already support Linux as an equal target.
- rkalla 13y ago
  Dennis, maybe you are right... this is a long-game and they are just getting ahead of the inevitable (engines supporting Linux natively, eventually more and more releases for the platform). I suppose this is the curse of the first-mover, it always seems to be risky/nonsensical until it isn't... then we all see it as an obvious move in hindsight ;)
  - ebertx 13y ago
    Yeah, this reminds of the initial launch of Steam back in 2003. At first it seemed like an annoying hoop to jump through. As the years went by and it got more dependable, more games, and more features, it became easier and easier to forget how annoying it was in the beginning. I wonder if the same thing will happen with SteamOS. At best it will initially seem like a novelty, then 10 years from now a huge group of customers will have forgotten what it was like to never have had it.
    - chii 13y ago
      in fact, microsoft should be scared of this move - because the gaming scene is basically what keeps a whole bunch of machines installed with windows.
      - ytjohn 13y ago
        For home users, yes. But in the business world, it's the Microsoft Office Suite, especially Outlook + Exchange. Sure, MS Office has been ported to OSX, but it's more expensive to go with Apple Hardware than commodity PC + MS Windows. If Microsoft flipped their lid and ported Office to run on common Linux distributions (Debian/Fedora), you'd see a lot more corporations switching. Microsoft does have their Office365.com, which is a web-based version of Office. I haven't tried it myself, but from what I've heard, a lot of its advanced features rely on Silverlight and using browsers other than IE on Linux or Mac OSX puts you in a sort of basic mode. The advanced mode is very comparable to running the desktop version while the basic mode is akin to the Google Docs editor.
matthew-wegner 13y ago
Valve has three announcements this week: http://kotaku.com/looks-like-well-hear-about-valves-new-hardware-on-mon-1356094018 http://kotaku.com/looks-like-well-hear-about-valves-new-hard... One of the announcements is widely believe to be the long-rumored Steam Box hardware...
- ketralnis 13y ago
  Why would they announce the software separately from its #1 use case?
  - scarlson 13y ago
    Casual vs Hardcore gaming. If they announce the console first, and it's not able to run the latest and greatest games on their highest resolution they stymie the idea of being able to run SteamOS on a high end gaming rig. This way people are thinking about how they can run SteamOS on their existing hardware before thinking they need to run it on a Steambox.
  - concernedctzn 13y ago
    well, the next icon on this page http://store.steampowered.com/livingroom/ http://store.steampowered.com/livingroom/ sure looks like a box enclosing the circle that turned out to be the OS. It's not really a separate announcement as this is all part of one unified event.
    - errnoh 13y ago
      Third one is more interesting since they already announced streaming from Steam to SteamOS.
  - matthew-wegner 13y ago
    Maybe this? But who really knows, with Valve: "SteamOS will be available soon as a free download for users and as a freely licensable operating system for manufacturers."
  - ZeroGravitas 13y ago
bigdubs 13y ago
Unity has made good strides in making developers think about linux as a viable target for development (and streamlining the process). I'd say there is hope. Especially as most (and I'm guessing here) PC revenue comes from Steam anyway.
- devx 13y ago
  There were some rumors about Crytek and Unreal guys wanting to support Linux, too. With these latest announcements, I'm sure they will now, if they weren't going to do it before.
- jakethehuman 13y ago
  Exactly. And why not put the players and developers on the same platform? It's a match made in heaven! Moving toward an upstreaming, open-source, GNU/Linux platform means that not only do they have more fine-tuned control of everything, but also that there are _many_ more sets of eyes and hands to find/fix problems and to help contribute to the gaming and Linux ecosystem as a whole. After seeing nVidia's CEO making his keynote for a new line of video cards on a Ubuntu powered laptop[1], I have no doubt that there are many companies other than Valve that see the great potential in this. [1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kIQWWJs_po http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kIQWWJs_po
jaredmcateer 13y ago
The announcement page claims all 3000 titles are available via streaming, similar to the OnLive service but only for your internal network, I'm guessing. Effectively working around the porting issue.
- estel 13y ago
  The streaming works if you have a beefy Windows machine in your house already, it's not a solution for people wanting a dedicated "Steam" console.
  - jaredmcateer 13y ago
    Granted it's a stop gap measure until they have more developers developing directly on OpenGL rather than Dx. But most people that are excited about this do have a fairly good gaming machine in their house already.
  - corresation 13y ago
    It is a brilliant tactic to migrate the considerable Steam base to the Steambox. It is transitional, of course, but brilliant for it.
    - baldfat 13y ago
      Okay I have 1 beefy PC. I want a second machine upstairs. Old Way) I have to spend all the money for equally good hardware. I also need a copy of Windows. New Way) Just get something that can render YouTube videos well. I now have a second Gaming PC. No copy of Windows!
      - Karunamon 13y ago
        This opens up all the platforms depending on how they play the streaming thing. If they make this work well and release client apps on the mobile side, suddenly Steam has a domination of the whole home on a level that Microsoft has been playing at for years.
  - 13y ago
Robadob 13y ago
A large part of it may be covered by this functionality; "You can play all your Windows and Mac games on your SteamOS machine, too. Just turn on your existing computer and run Steam as you always have - then your SteamOS machine can stream those games over your home network straight to your TV!"
- sbarre 13y ago
  Exactly. Gigabit ethernet in the home (or really fast wireless) should make this pretty feasible even with twitch-based action games (we can hope!)
  - jlgreco 13y ago
    With twitch-based games you'll have to convince twitch-based game players of that. These are people that look up latency specs on wireless keyboards because they think that makes a difference.
    - sbarre 13y ago
      And I would bet that they are enough of a minority that it financially doesn't matter. They will keep playing on their finely tuned rigs with old CRT monitors anyways. But the average person who wants to play the latest Assassin's Creed or Grand Theft Auto over that kind of streaming system? There are lots of those (including me).
- xentronium 13y ago
  It's a dual-edged sword, as being able to stream windows titles doesn't give much incentive for game devs to fully support linux, does it?
  - venomsnake 13y ago
    But it gives the users a reason to switch which is important. The idea of forfeiting 300-400 games is not pleasant.
  - 13y ago
xal 13y ago
It's not a tough sell. Valve can offer a massively higher cut then Sony and Microsoft will do.
deleted 13y ago
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jsnell 13y ago
Well, there is some teasing along those lines there: > Watch for announcements in the coming weeks about all the AAA titles coming natively to SteamOS in 2014. But more importantly, control of Steam gives Valve a lot of leverage in this. It's easy to see the reasons for Linux support in indie games. But harder to see why mid-tier developers like Paradox or Eugen started to port their latest games to Linux. It's a good bet that some kind of a Steam-related carrot was involved there.
- rkalla 13y ago
  Juho, great call-out with the "Steam-related carrot", I hadn't really thought down that path but you are absolutely right. Valve could easily offer big discounts in their split with the publishers for the first few years for Linux sales. My (possibly very incorrect) assumption was that the profit from the Linux sales were so low as to not matter, but maybe they can provide a catalog-wide carrot... something more significant (as you suggested) to motivate the publisher en-masse.
  - sefy98 13y ago
    This was my thought also. Offer $100 in games with the console, or release hl3 only on the console. I'm really glad you guys pointed out this was a console launch because I tried to point it out on reddit and got shut down... http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/1mywq0/steamos_announced/ccdwf2q http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/1mywq0/steamos_annou...
    - rkalla 13y ago
      Argh, that can be frustrating. I for one certainly agree with you :D
  - wonderzombie 13y ago
    This is likely to be coupled with some manner of hardware launch, as well. I am skeptical that the name "Linux" will be a particularly useful term in that context. Couple that with my skepticism that they're actually shipping much if any traditional Linux userspace software, and it's even less useful to compare potential SteamOS users to traditional Linux users. Other than that I agree that with Valve as a patron there's a lot more credibility. Steam was a long-term move, and it paid off. So Valve has a good track record and solid momentum. If they can help make it easy for game companies to port their work, taking out a significant or non-trivial amount of work and offer the carrot of sales & paying customers, I could see this taking off. I was skeptical of Steam back in 2004 but I wasn't thinking long term enough. Launching your own operating system isn't a short term move. It suggests to me that this will only get better and more impressive over time, if Valve is as committed to this as it seems.
jayd16 13y ago
I suppose they could plug the hole a little including a dalvik vm and get android games running too. In theory they would be able to get a large amount of games working and kill the OUYA. I'm not sure that's in the best interest of the Steam store unless they plan to start selling android games.
- Mikeb85 13y ago
  I hope not. Dalvik is terrible (a legacy of Android's roots in circa 2004 Java-mobile land), I'd rather see native games, and then maybe that can help Ubuntu Phone and Sailfish OS take off on mobile...
- ZeroGravitas 13y ago
  Some of the Valve documents explicitly sell the porting to Linux/OpenGL process as a stepping stone to mobile. And given their talk of breaking pointless silos I can imagine a steam store on Android that can play any Steam game you've got the horsepower for.
  - suby 13y ago
    link to said documents?
    - ZeroGravitas 13y ago
      https://developer.nvidia.com/sites/default/files/akamai/gamedev/docs/Porting%20Source%20to%20Linux.pdf https://developer.nvidia.com/sites/default/files/akamai/game...
      - suby 13y ago
        Thank you.
pekk 13y ago
Any console has its own platform to target. When that platform happens to be Linux-based, this magically becomes an onerous and unlikely requirement. This has nothing to do with Linux and everything to do with who wants to target Steam's pet platform (vs Xbox pet platform, etc.) Comparing this to Windows is nonsensical.
- kbruner 13y ago
  Any developer has an addressable market to target. I don't think we really care what the OS is (Win,Xbox,PS4,iOS,whatever). If there is a market opportunity, we pounce. There simply has not been a Linux market opportunity that has inspired any real business. Will SteamOS change that? Time will tell....
nightski 13y ago
There are a good chunk of games that barely make it to the consoles... (or just simply never do). I think it is much more rare to not make it to PC/Windows. A hunch I have is that developers are unwilling to target linux because of its diversity. By providing SteamOS they are providing a stable target for developers to release games against instead of trying to support all Linux distros.
- rkalla 13y ago
  Sure, but I would argue that one AAA title is worth the entirety of those games that aren't ever making it off of the PC as far as sales go (thinking from a publishers POV). Absolutely agree with you on the unifying effect of SteamOS being a single target for devs; that by itself, as you are pointing out, will drive more development for the platform. Gives everyone a target to aim at.
  - gambler 13y ago
    As far as sales - yes. As far as profits, or at least ROI is involved - no.
kaolinite 13y ago
Tonnes of AAA titles are 'available' on FreeBSD - the PS3. Publishers won't be bringing their games to Linux, they'll be bringing them to SteamOS.
- berdario 13y ago
  Except that the PS3 has a dedicated SDK... Up until now Steam has instead allowed games made with any technology AFAIK that means, among others, Python (Analogue: a Hate Story) and Mono (Bastion) As long as they let developers have freedom over their tools of choice, I don't think we risk any embrace/extend/extinguish outcome
- zurn 13y ago
  Has there ever been any confirmation for the "PS3 runs FreeBSD" rumor? I've just seen FreeBSD mentioned on Sony's page listing open source components, along with stuff like expat and freetype. They've probably just lifted some bits from FreeBSD.
  - gsnedders 13y ago
    Hell, it could be the old Win NT thing of using the network code. That hardly constitutes "using BSD".
- snotrockets 13y ago
  PS3 runs FreeBSD likes Android runs Linux. That is, they may share a kernel and some tools, but the user spaces are mostly alien.
  - baldfat 13y ago
    PS3 ran on Cell CPU Architecture. Now PS4 run FreeBSD 9.0 modified BUT x86 architecture! Android = Linux Ubuntu = Linux they both run the same exact kernel! BSD != Linux because they are 2 different kernels. Why do people always try to say Android is not Linux?????
    - 13y ago
deleted 13y ago
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makmanalp 13y ago
The interesting thing is that convincing AAA publishers to port merely requires them to think it'd be profitable. 20 years ago, if someone asked to raise a quarter of a billion into a video game, they'd be laughed out of the building. Now it happens often. Over the years, increasingly big-budget games got funded and created. So, all they need to do is to replicate a similar process. First you move all the indie games and source engine games to linux to "bootstrap" your market. Maybe make them free or a few bucks. Once you have a paying userbase from that, you show financials to bigger fish in an attempt to draw them in. Lather, rinse, repeat. Even better is the fact that publishers love "free money" that doesn't require them to gamble. A port of an already successful game is much less risky than a new game. And (conditions permitting, like engine support) it costs a very small amount compared to the actual budget. So they can work on smaller margins to still turn a healthy profit.
- bsimpson 13y ago
  I believe Humble Bundle has a partnership with a consultancy that will take care of porting a game to other platforms to enable their Mac/Linux/Windows value proposition. Valve could probably do something similar (though I imagine it's a lot more work to port a AAA game than an indie platformer).
  - wonderzombie 13y ago
    If you're using an off-the-shelf engine (Unreal engine, say), it's probably somewhat easier, as some of the work would be one-off, at least in theory. But I don't honestly know how that breaks down.
    - speeder 13y ago
      Most off-the-shelf engine support Linux. This include all Quake engine variations (including Source, and GoldSource) and Unreal variations.
      - touristtam 13y ago
hamburglar 13y ago
I'm skeptical that they can convince regular people to put PC hardware in their living rooms. Microsoft and manufacturers made a ton of effort in this direction last decade, and it wasn't half bad: Windows Media Center was a pretty decent user interface for TV-watching, and lots of "living room PC" form factors popped up (remember the ubiquitous Shuttle case?). But nobody cares. It was just too weird and clunky for the average consumer to put OEM PC hardware in his AV stack. Hard core geeks will do it, but that's not a big enough audience. Maybe that's changed enough to make this work, but I kind of doubt it.
- bsimpson 13y ago
  AppleTV sells reasonably well, and GoogleTV would probably be thriving right now if the major networks didn't discriminate against its UA. I don't follow gaming that closely, but I believe most of the consoles released since the Dreamcast use a variant of the PowerPC chip that used to power Apple's computers. Silicon is silicon; it's the UI that makes a difference. People have been paying money to have gaming systems in their homes since the 80s, and entertainment-center computers have been popular since TiVo in the 00s. Moreover, these manufacturers are all working on "smart TVs," which is what has been keeping GoogleTV alive in spite of the entertainment industry's hostility towards it. With the right UI and licensing, I could see an LG or a Samung (or a Vizio for that matter) releasing a SteamOS-powered TV.
- jhaywood 13y ago
  Microsoft had trouble getting people to run Windows in their living room. They had no trouble getting millions to put PC hardware in their living room as evidenced by the XBOX.
  - hamburglar 13y ago
    Calling the XBox "PC hardware" is really picking nits and missing the point, in my opinion. The problem with PC hardware in the living room is that no matter how you dress up an HTPC to resemble a piece of consumer electronics, it's all cosmetic, and it's still a PC in that it's not a fixed hardware configuration like a console. This makes the software more complicated, adds driver issues, support costs, hardware reliability is unknown, etc. The result is a tradeoff in how polished the product can ever really be. Geeks will put up with it. Regular folks probably won't. Again, my opinion.
xmonkee 13y ago
Consider all the PC-only titles. It's safe to assume that many of them make the vast majority of their sales via Steam. If steam promises massive takeup of SteamOS, then it's in their best interests to make them available for it. From the demand angle, lots of games are console only because they fear piracy on PC versions. But if all these console users are offered a cheap new platform they can use just as easily as their consoles, it's safe to say that many of the users who buy a steambox would start buying games on it too. Console gamers aren't going to suddenly turn into torrent junkies because they wouldn't need to. This would make the PC platform profitable again. And if they start pricing games cheaper, like Steam games are liable to be, piracy would go down even further. Lots of indie PC titles are making money after-all. Overall, I think once it hits a critical mass it would be a fantastic idea for all parties involved.
DocG 13y ago
In-home Streaming seems to be backwards compility answer. This means they don't start with empty plate like Android for example. To keep cheap rig in living room for stream playing and media center, does not seem to be so bad idea. Most gaming will happen still whereever main rig is, but when you have friends over, you can just move to living room. And knowing steam(compared to others), I think it will be decently out of the box working thing. Anyway, I support linux gaming, I would love to ditch windows at last.
- XorNot 13y ago
  I'd love to see Linux get 1st class graphics driver support from vendors. I pay as much for my Radeon card as anyone else, but the fglrx drivers STILL don't support X composite. But other then gaming I never boot into Windows these days anyway.
  - asdasf 13y ago
    I'd love to see them just publish docs so we can get good drivers instead. Bluescreens from video drivers are still a problem on windows, it is an even bigger problem on linux with fewer resources going into making the driver, and fewer people using them to serve as paying testers. Nvidia and ati/amd have both made it very clear that they either do not have the desire or they do not have the resources to make good drivers. So let the open source community do it for you.
    - sliverstorm 13y ago
      I'd love to see them just publish docs They have in the past, and got nothing but flak.
      - asdasf 13y ago
        No, they haven't. They have released bits and pieces under NDA, but never actual complete docs. That's the problem. Maybe you should have listened a little closer to the "flak" to see if it was actually legitimate problems.
kayoone 13y ago
it all depends on how many people will use SteamOS. Costs of porting games to other platforms will also go down with the next generation as xbox one and ps4 are basically standard PCs.
baldfat 13y ago
"porting their AAA releases to this platform" Play Station 4 is running a modified a Free BSD 9.0 on x86 architecture. So the work to go from a BSD base to Linux I imagine is MUCH easier than what it has been in the past in my opinion.
- rkalla 13y ago
  Actually an excellent point; just dug up some info, didn't realize Orbis was based on FreeBSD. Would absolutely agree that for both the engine companies (Unreal, Crytek, Unity, Frostbite, etc.) since they are already going to FreeBSD, being able to target SteamOS as a secondary platform with minimal effort would be huge. Then hopefully abstract that effort away from the publishers as much as possible so if Capcom/Microsoft/EA/Activision decide to go SOS, it is minimal work.
jsz0 13y ago
Aren't games pretty damn portable these days? It seems like most non-firsty party titles are all multi-platform now. I don't know anything about game development but they must be developing with portability in mind.
- suby 13y ago
  Almost every major engine out there (ie: IdTech, Unreal Engine, Unity, Frostbite) is cross platform off the shelf.
- rkalla 13y ago
  As suby mentioned, off-the-shelf I think these engines support multiple platforms, but it is surprising (to me) how many big, non-1st-party games don't make it across all the platforms in a timely fashion. That signals to me that it isn't as easy as we might think.
math0ne 13y ago
I think the point is that AAA titles are at a low time low of market share. Indie titles could carry this platform by itself.
- rkalla 13y ago
  I hate commenting in extremes, but I am willing to bet a large volume of the blood in my body that this is false and the platform would be a total failure if this was their only play (indie games). One GTA 5, for example, is equivalent to the sales produced by every indie game, combined, multiple times over. Even Minecraft with some $30-40mil is a miniscule fraction of what GTA 5 did opening _day_ and will eventually do in its lifetime. Definitely chose extremes here, but I imagine the equation looks the same with any other AAA title compared to the entirety of indie titles combined.
ascendantlogic 13y ago
I see Steam's long tail being more on the Indie side of things, giving the little guys a way to monetize their hard work without needing huge budgets. As long as they come along for the ride I think the platform can be grown organically. That said, Valve's own AAA titles alone will be good for the platform, so if they can get a handful of other major players on board I think it can be very compelling.
hadem 13y ago
Isn't part of the reason there are not a lot of developers working with Linux because there isn't near as big of a demand from the Linux community? This, if it becomes a popular option, it would/could increase that demand.
deelowe 13y ago
With the streaming support, I'm assuming you'll get immediate access to everything that's playable on your PC. It's not a perfect solution, but certainly helps with the adoption issue.
gavanwoolery 13y ago
Ultimately, what other choice does Valve have? Every single other company is coming out with its own "App Store" - few are exclusive at this point, but the tide might turn that way (already I believe Microsoft and Apple have taken steps that have made it more difficult for Steam). That said, OpenGL is an increasingly relevant player due to WebGL, mobile devices, Apple's growing market share, etc. It is also possible to simultaneously target OpenGL and DirectX with things like ANGLE. If your game is written in OpenGL, it is relatively easy to port to different operating systems, assuming you don't rely heavily on platform-specific libraries (and if you already support Mac, it is typically even easier to port to other *nix-based platforms). If the XBox One is OGL capable (via its Windows layer), porting could get even easier. To top it off, I'm pretty sure it will get support from at least of the few big engines: ID Tech, Unreal, Unity, and CryEngine all seem to be potential candidates. 90+ percent of games use one of these engines.
- Mikeb85 13y ago
  Targeting DirectX is a waste of time because Windows can run OpenGL, and players can use the latest OpenGL features on every version of Windows (ie. not have to update to Windows 8.1 just to use a newer version of DirectX)...
jon-wood 13y ago
"In-home Streaming" This one is going to be the killer I think - it means two things to me. 1. Not everything has to be ported to Linux straight out of the gate. 2. Its going straight on my living room machine! I've been waiting for the ability to use my beafy gaming PC (which is at a desk, with a keyboard and mouse) to drive games on the TV for a long time.
- jdavid 13y ago
  I don't know if that means intra-home streaming or inter-home streaming. Basically i'm not sure if that means Valve/Steam is doing what nVidia, AMD, MS, and onLive are doing or if they are doing something else.
AJ007 13y ago
Porting old games no, porting new games yes. Using the word easy liberally, Unity makes it easy to develop multi-platform games. Unreal is going the same direction. In the past each platform had its unique limitations. Now all devices down to a tiny smart phone are very powerful. The mobile market is gigantic. Users go from device to device. Take a look at Occulus Rift + the wireless devices used to control it. The days of sitting down with a keyboard and mouse are passing, even for the desktop users. Google, Apple, Amazon, and others are gearing up for what are in effect micro-consoles. Other than Apple they are all Android. Its as good of time as ever for Steam to move forward.
mbell 13y ago
> A good chunk of the console games barely make it to PC/Windows as it is, let alone a PC/Linux platform... seems like a tough sell. True today but both the PS4 and XBone are now 8 core x86 platforms with desktop style GPUs. I would imagine most developers already abstract away the OS/graphics APIs as much as possible to facilitate porting to both consoles, adding a third platform for a 'PC port' should be much easier this console generation, particularly given that the relative pain of coding for the PS3 cell processor is now gone.
lelandbatey 13y ago
Honestly, I think that what Valve's going for here is they're trying to generate hype around a "new platform" that's actually an existing platform that's underutilized. Valve sees that there's a lot of what's effectively free RND work going into Linux as a platform for gaming, but that no one's taking advantage of that. I think SteamOS is just going to be a highly tuned distro, since Valve really doesn't have the man power (or the internal motivation) to build an entirely new platform. However, they are trying to make it seem like a new and different platform so that the distributors and studios will take notice and say "Maybe we should develop for this." In doing so they'll be developing for Linux at large, they just might not know it.
- lbenes 13y ago
  Valve has the resources; it's more a issue of internal commitment, which I agree they don't seem willing to make. To make SteamOS a serious contender to NXE Dashboard or CellOS they'd need to: * Develop a XrossMediaBar like UI * Devote resources to Wayland or Mir to reach production quality * Create a new audio subsystem, or bring OSS v4 up to date for Linux If I heard something like Valve dedicating 5 programmers on Wayland and 2 on OSS, SteamBox could be a serious contender for my next console purchase.
  - xanderstrike 13y ago
    > Develop a XrossMediaBar like UI What's wrong with Big Picture? It's very usable and has replaced XBMC as the primary interface on my HTPC. It's already almost as functional as any console or media center's interface, all it really needs is a system settings area.
  - gtaylor 13y ago
    They don't really need Wayland right now, and OSS isn't required for gaming on Linux. I've been pretty happy with xorg + pulseaudio + alsa and their Steam for Linux client. I've been surprised at the quality this early in the game. I'm still a bit amazed that they've released a Steam for Linux client that works as well as it does, and that they are iterating and improving it so quickly. They've done everything right so far, let's see where it goes.
deleted 13y ago
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DigitalSea 13y ago
If they announce Half Life 3 as an exclusive launch title for Steam OS, I think there are a lot of people who would give it a shot. Steam is a very influential and well-connected company, don't underestimate them.
- Anonymous9823 13y ago
  It's an operating system, there are not going to be exclusive launch titles. Unless of course, you think Valve is going to release HL3 only for Linux users, but that idea is absurd.
  - DigitalSea 13y ago
    Games run on operating systems. They revealed there are going to be some AAA titles coming to the OS. Of course if HL3 eventually is confirmed it won't be a solely Linux only release but that doesn't mean Valve won't release it for the OS though. It was an example.
geuis 13y ago
The market is already there. Steam already has more users that both Xbox and Playstation combined.
- rkalla 13y ago
  Assuming you meant Xbox 360 and PS3, I think your stats are off: * Steam - ~60 million [1] * Xbox 360 - ~80 million [2] * PS3 - ~80 million [3] If you literally meant the Xbox and PS2 from 11 years ago, then yes, you are probably correct :) [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_(software) [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_game_consoles#Microsoft [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_game_consoles#Sony
  - Flenser 13y ago
    That's an unfair comparison. It should be with XBox Live [1] and PlayStation Network [2] * Steam - ~60 million users * XBox Live - 46 million users as of February 2013 * PlayStation Network - +100 million although PSN includes PlayStation Portable and PlayStation Vita handhelds so the number of PS3 users is probably similar to XBox given the number of consoles sold. Also, the Steam page you referenced says: "Steam has an estimated 50–70% share of the digital distribution market for downloadable PC video games" [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_Live http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_Live [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_Network http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_Network
Aqueous 13y ago
There is no "Linux Platform", unfortunately. I think that's what Steam is doing here. Creating a platform that doesn't exist yet, to bridge PC and console gaming.
jamie_ca 13y ago
Also, even for games that do have a Windows release, it's hard enough getting a Mac release most days... Linux is an even tougher sell in the current market, but perhaps that'll change if Valve can start showing some serious SteamOS install numbers?
pippy 13y ago
One thing people haven't mentioned in this thread is the Windows Store. Windows is already following OS X in creating a walled garden with signed software. Microsoft implementing more controls on the Windows software ecosystem could be catastrophic for companies like Valve. Steam OS will ensure Valve has something to rely on, it will also force Windows to keep tabs on their software ecosystem.
- damian2000 13y ago
  Microsoft isn't killing the Windows Desktop (i.e. traditional windows apps) anytime soon. 99.9% of Windows users rely on it.
moneyrich4 13y ago
> Is anyone else skeptical that they can motivate publishers to spend time/money porting their games to the Linux platform? no. porting and refactoring tools are so good now you can even port a direct3d app to opengl in 2 days or less, you could use a d3d>opengl wrapper in a day of work. libraries are also so good at dual platform it requires minimal changes (usually just a new build system).. afaik the biggest change is handling input (theres no directInput on linux - most games use directInput for mouse/kb). theres also numerous benefits to a closed system economy like an app store - for example even if nobody uses it you are practically exclusive and will get more buys than other places you can sell your app.
- rkalla 13y ago
  I would merely make the point that if porting was as painfully simple as you suggest here, non-first-party publishers would be making their games available for every platform (in most cases) without a second thought. Even though multi-plat development is infinitely easier today than it was even 5 years ago, I still think getting titles onto multiple platforms is much harder and time consuming than you are giving it credit.
johnyzee 13y ago
> Is anyone else skeptical that they can motivate publishers to spend time/money porting their games to the Linux platform? All they have to do is heavily subsidize (or give away) the console they are undoubtedly working on. Right from the get-go you can stream your existing PC Steam games to your TV which everyone will jump on. When the installed base is large enough, publishers will follow.
- rkalla 13y ago
  This sounds an awfully lot like: "To be rich all you have to do is make a ton of money and then you can buy whatever you want" -- yes... I absolutely agree, but there is an ocean sized gap of potentially company-crippling decisions between "heavily subsidize/give away" and "large enough install base, publishers will follow" :)
shin_lao 13y ago
You can stream games from your desktop to Steam OS. That alone is awesome.
mortdeus 13y ago
I wrote a response to your comment but it became rather long so I decided to make it into a blog post instead. http://mortdeus.blogspot.com/2013/09/linux-core-component-powering-new-steam.html http://mortdeus.blogspot.com/2013/09/linux-core-component-po...
mortdeus 13y ago
I wrote a response to your comment but it became rather long so I decided to make it into a blog post instead. http://mortdeus.blogspot.com/2013/09/linux-core-component-powering-new-steam.html http://mortdeus.blogspot.com/2013/09/linux-core-component-po...
freshfunk 13y ago
Game developers can just use cross-platform games engines (like Unity) that support Windows, Mac and Linux.

by rkalla 13y ago

corresation 13y ago

http://store.steampowered.com/search/?os=linux http://store.steampowered.com/search/?os=linux Valve has been planning this for a while, and has had pretty good success motivating a lot of smaller publishers to target Linux, even though the base isn't there yet, and of course have moved their own incredibly valuable games to Linux. Major game engines (Unreal 3D, Unity, among others) already support Linux as an equal target.

rkalla 13y ago
Dennis, maybe you are right... this is a long-game and they are just getting ahead of the inevitable (engines supporting Linux natively, eventually more and more releases for the platform). I suppose this is the curse of the first-mover, it always seems to be risky/nonsensical until it isn't... then we all see it as an obvious move in hindsight ;)
- ebertx 13y ago
  Yeah, this reminds of the initial launch of Steam back in 2003. At first it seemed like an annoying hoop to jump through. As the years went by and it got more dependable, more games, and more features, it became easier and easier to forget how annoying it was in the beginning. I wonder if the same thing will happen with SteamOS. At best it will initially seem like a novelty, then 10 years from now a huge group of customers will have forgotten what it was like to never have had it.
  - chii 13y ago
    in fact, microsoft should be scared of this move - because the gaming scene is basically what keeps a whole bunch of machines installed with windows.
    - ytjohn 13y ago
      For home users, yes. But in the business world, it's the Microsoft Office Suite, especially Outlook + Exchange. Sure, MS Office has been ported to OSX, but it's more expensive to go with Apple Hardware than commodity PC + MS Windows. If Microsoft flipped their lid and ported Office to run on common Linux distributions (Debian/Fedora), you'd see a lot more corporations switching. Microsoft does have their Office365.com, which is a web-based version of Office. I haven't tried it myself, but from what I've heard, a lot of its advanced features rely on Silverlight and using browsers other than IE on Linux or Mac OSX puts you in a sort of basic mode. The advanced mode is very comparable to running the desktop version while the basic mode is akin to the Google Docs editor.

matthew-wegner 13y ago

Valve has three announcements this week: http://kotaku.com/looks-like-well-hear-about-valves-new-hardware-on-mon-1356094018 http://kotaku.com/looks-like-well-hear-about-valves-new-hard... One of the announcements is widely believe to be the long-rumored Steam Box hardware...

ketralnis 13y ago
Why would they announce the software separately from its #1 use case?
- scarlson 13y ago
  Casual vs Hardcore gaming. If they announce the console first, and it's not able to run the latest and greatest games on their highest resolution they stymie the idea of being able to run SteamOS on a high end gaming rig. This way people are thinking about how they can run SteamOS on their existing hardware before thinking they need to run it on a Steambox.
- concernedctzn 13y ago
  well, the next icon on this page http://store.steampowered.com/livingroom/ http://store.steampowered.com/livingroom/ sure looks like a box enclosing the circle that turned out to be the OS. It's not really a separate announcement as this is all part of one unified event.
  - errnoh 13y ago
    Third one is more interesting since they already announced streaming from Steam to SteamOS.
- matthew-wegner 13y ago
  Maybe this? But who really knows, with Valve: "SteamOS will be available soon as a free download for users and as a freely licensable operating system for manufacturers."
- ZeroGravitas 13y ago

bigdubs 13y ago

Unity has made good strides in making developers think about linux as a viable target for development (and streamlining the process). I'd say there is hope. Especially as most (and I'm guessing here) PC revenue comes from Steam anyway.

devx 13y ago
There were some rumors about Crytek and Unreal guys wanting to support Linux, too. With these latest announcements, I'm sure they will now, if they weren't going to do it before.
jakethehuman 13y ago
Exactly. And why not put the players and developers on the same platform? It's a match made in heaven! Moving toward an upstreaming, open-source, GNU/Linux platform means that not only do they have more fine-tuned control of everything, but also that there are _many_ more sets of eyes and hands to find/fix problems and to help contribute to the gaming and Linux ecosystem as a whole. After seeing nVidia's CEO making his keynote for a new line of video cards on a Ubuntu powered laptop[1], I have no doubt that there are many companies other than Valve that see the great potential in this. [1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kIQWWJs_po http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kIQWWJs_po

jaredmcateer 13y ago

The announcement page claims all 3000 titles are available via streaming, similar to the OnLive service but only for your internal network, I'm guessing. Effectively working around the porting issue.

estel 13y ago
The streaming works if you have a beefy Windows machine in your house already, it's not a solution for people wanting a dedicated "Steam" console.
- jaredmcateer 13y ago
  Granted it's a stop gap measure until they have more developers developing directly on OpenGL rather than Dx. But most people that are excited about this do have a fairly good gaming machine in their house already.
- corresation 13y ago
  It is a brilliant tactic to migrate the considerable Steam base to the Steambox. It is transitional, of course, but brilliant for it.
  - baldfat 13y ago
    Okay I have 1 beefy PC. I want a second machine upstairs. Old Way) I have to spend all the money for equally good hardware. I also need a copy of Windows. New Way) Just get something that can render YouTube videos well. I now have a second Gaming PC. No copy of Windows!
    - Karunamon 13y ago
      This opens up all the platforms depending on how they play the streaming thing. If they make this work well and release client apps on the mobile side, suddenly Steam has a domination of the whole home on a level that Microsoft has been playing at for years.
- 13y ago

Robadob 13y ago

A large part of it may be covered by this functionality; "You can play all your Windows and Mac games on your SteamOS machine, too. Just turn on your existing computer and run Steam as you always have - then your SteamOS machine can stream those games over your home network straight to your TV!"

sbarre 13y ago
Exactly. Gigabit ethernet in the home (or really fast wireless) should make this pretty feasible even with twitch-based action games (we can hope!)
- jlgreco 13y ago
  With twitch-based games you'll have to convince twitch-based game players of that. These are people that look up latency specs on wireless keyboards because they think that makes a difference.
  - sbarre 13y ago
    And I would bet that they are enough of a minority that it financially doesn't matter. They will keep playing on their finely tuned rigs with old CRT monitors anyways. But the average person who wants to play the latest Assassin's Creed or Grand Theft Auto over that kind of streaming system? There are lots of those (including me).
xentronium 13y ago
It's a dual-edged sword, as being able to stream windows titles doesn't give much incentive for game devs to fully support linux, does it?
- venomsnake 13y ago
  But it gives the users a reason to switch which is important. The idea of forfeiting 300-400 games is not pleasant.
- 13y ago

xal 13y ago

It's not a tough sell. Valve can offer a massively higher cut then Sony and Microsoft will do.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

jsnell 13y ago

Well, there is some teasing along those lines there: > Watch for announcements in the coming weeks about all the AAA titles coming natively to SteamOS in 2014. But more importantly, control of Steam gives Valve a lot of leverage in this. It's easy to see the reasons for Linux support in indie games. But harder to see why mid-tier developers like Paradox or Eugen started to port their latest games to Linux. It's a good bet that some kind of a Steam-related carrot was involved there.

rkalla 13y ago
Juho, great call-out with the "Steam-related carrot", I hadn't really thought down that path but you are absolutely right. Valve could easily offer big discounts in their split with the publishers for the first few years for Linux sales. My (possibly very incorrect) assumption was that the profit from the Linux sales were so low as to not matter, but maybe they can provide a catalog-wide carrot... something more significant (as you suggested) to motivate the publisher en-masse.
- sefy98 13y ago
  This was my thought also. Offer $100 in games with the console, or release hl3 only on the console. I'm really glad you guys pointed out this was a console launch because I tried to point it out on reddit and got shut down... http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/1mywq0/steamos_announced/ccdwf2q http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/1mywq0/steamos_annou...
  - rkalla 13y ago
    Argh, that can be frustrating. I for one certainly agree with you :D
- wonderzombie 13y ago
  This is likely to be coupled with some manner of hardware launch, as well. I am skeptical that the name "Linux" will be a particularly useful term in that context. Couple that with my skepticism that they're actually shipping much if any traditional Linux userspace software, and it's even less useful to compare potential SteamOS users to traditional Linux users. Other than that I agree that with Valve as a patron there's a lot more credibility. Steam was a long-term move, and it paid off. So Valve has a good track record and solid momentum. If they can help make it easy for game companies to port their work, taking out a significant or non-trivial amount of work and offer the carrot of sales & paying customers, I could see this taking off. I was skeptical of Steam back in 2004 but I wasn't thinking long term enough. Launching your own operating system isn't a short term move. It suggests to me that this will only get better and more impressive over time, if Valve is as committed to this as it seems.

jayd16 13y ago

I suppose they could plug the hole a little including a dalvik vm and get android games running too. In theory they would be able to get a large amount of games working and kill the OUYA. I'm not sure that's in the best interest of the Steam store unless they plan to start selling android games.

Mikeb85 13y ago
I hope not. Dalvik is terrible (a legacy of Android's roots in circa 2004 Java-mobile land), I'd rather see native games, and then maybe that can help Ubuntu Phone and Sailfish OS take off on mobile...
ZeroGravitas 13y ago
Some of the Valve documents explicitly sell the porting to Linux/OpenGL process as a stepping stone to mobile. And given their talk of breaking pointless silos I can imagine a steam store on Android that can play any Steam game you've got the horsepower for.
- suby 13y ago
  link to said documents?
  - ZeroGravitas 13y ago
    https://developer.nvidia.com/sites/default/files/akamai/gamedev/docs/Porting%20Source%20to%20Linux.pdf https://developer.nvidia.com/sites/default/files/akamai/game...
    - suby 13y ago
      Thank you.

pekk 13y ago

Any console has its own platform to target. When that platform happens to be Linux-based, this magically becomes an onerous and unlikely requirement. This has nothing to do with Linux and everything to do with who wants to target Steam's pet platform (vs Xbox pet platform, etc.) Comparing this to Windows is nonsensical.

kbruner 13y ago
Any developer has an addressable market to target. I don't think we really care what the OS is (Win,Xbox,PS4,iOS,whatever). If there is a market opportunity, we pounce. There simply has not been a Linux market opportunity that has inspired any real business. Will SteamOS change that? Time will tell....

nightski 13y ago

There are a good chunk of games that barely make it to the consoles... (or just simply never do). I think it is much more rare to not make it to PC/Windows. A hunch I have is that developers are unwilling to target linux because of its diversity. By providing SteamOS they are providing a stable target for developers to release games against instead of trying to support all Linux distros.

rkalla 13y ago
Sure, but I would argue that one AAA title is worth the entirety of those games that aren't ever making it off of the PC as far as sales go (thinking from a publishers POV). Absolutely agree with you on the unifying effect of SteamOS being a single target for devs; that by itself, as you are pointing out, will drive more development for the platform. Gives everyone a target to aim at.
- gambler 13y ago
  As far as sales - yes. As far as profits, or at least ROI is involved - no.

kaolinite 13y ago

Tonnes of AAA titles are 'available' on FreeBSD - the PS3. Publishers won't be bringing their games to Linux, they'll be bringing them to SteamOS.

berdario 13y ago
Except that the PS3 has a dedicated SDK... Up until now Steam has instead allowed games made with any technology AFAIK that means, among others, Python (Analogue: a Hate Story) and Mono (Bastion) As long as they let developers have freedom over their tools of choice, I don't think we risk any embrace/extend/extinguish outcome
zurn 13y ago
Has there ever been any confirmation for the "PS3 runs FreeBSD" rumor? I've just seen FreeBSD mentioned on Sony's page listing open source components, along with stuff like expat and freetype. They've probably just lifted some bits from FreeBSD.
- gsnedders 13y ago
  Hell, it could be the old Win NT thing of using the network code. That hardly constitutes "using BSD".
snotrockets 13y ago
PS3 runs FreeBSD likes Android runs Linux. That is, they may share a kernel and some tools, but the user spaces are mostly alien.
- baldfat 13y ago
  PS3 ran on Cell CPU Architecture. Now PS4 run FreeBSD 9.0 modified BUT x86 architecture! Android = Linux Ubuntu = Linux they both run the same exact kernel! BSD != Linux because they are 2 different kernels. Why do people always try to say Android is not Linux?????
  - 13y ago

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

makmanalp 13y ago

The interesting thing is that convincing AAA publishers to port merely requires them to think it'd be profitable. 20 years ago, if someone asked to raise a quarter of a billion into a video game, they'd be laughed out of the building. Now it happens often. Over the years, increasingly big-budget games got funded and created. So, all they need to do is to replicate a similar process. First you move all the indie games and source engine games to linux to "bootstrap" your market. Maybe make them free or a few bucks. Once you have a paying userbase from that, you show financials to bigger fish in an attempt to draw them in. Lather, rinse, repeat. Even better is the fact that publishers love "free money" that doesn't require them to gamble. A port of an already successful game is much less risky than a new game. And (conditions permitting, like engine support) it costs a very small amount compared to the actual budget. So they can work on smaller margins to still turn a healthy profit.

bsimpson 13y ago
I believe Humble Bundle has a partnership with a consultancy that will take care of porting a game to other platforms to enable their Mac/Linux/Windows value proposition. Valve could probably do something similar (though I imagine it's a lot more work to port a AAA game than an indie platformer).
- wonderzombie 13y ago
  If you're using an off-the-shelf engine (Unreal engine, say), it's probably somewhat easier, as some of the work would be one-off, at least in theory. But I don't honestly know how that breaks down.
  - speeder 13y ago
    Most off-the-shelf engine support Linux. This include all Quake engine variations (including Source, and GoldSource) and Unreal variations.
    - touristtam 13y ago

hamburglar 13y ago

I'm skeptical that they can convince regular people to put PC hardware in their living rooms. Microsoft and manufacturers made a ton of effort in this direction last decade, and it wasn't half bad: Windows Media Center was a pretty decent user interface for TV-watching, and lots of "living room PC" form factors popped up (remember the ubiquitous Shuttle case?). But nobody cares. It was just too weird and clunky for the average consumer to put OEM PC hardware in his AV stack. Hard core geeks will do it, but that's not a big enough audience. Maybe that's changed enough to make this work, but I kind of doubt it.

bsimpson 13y ago
AppleTV sells reasonably well, and GoogleTV would probably be thriving right now if the major networks didn't discriminate against its UA. I don't follow gaming that closely, but I believe most of the consoles released since the Dreamcast use a variant of the PowerPC chip that used to power Apple's computers. Silicon is silicon; it's the UI that makes a difference. People have been paying money to have gaming systems in their homes since the 80s, and entertainment-center computers have been popular since TiVo in the 00s. Moreover, these manufacturers are all working on "smart TVs," which is what has been keeping GoogleTV alive in spite of the entertainment industry's hostility towards it. With the right UI and licensing, I could see an LG or a Samung (or a Vizio for that matter) releasing a SteamOS-powered TV.
jhaywood 13y ago
Microsoft had trouble getting people to run Windows in their living room. They had no trouble getting millions to put PC hardware in their living room as evidenced by the XBOX.
- hamburglar 13y ago
  Calling the XBox "PC hardware" is really picking nits and missing the point, in my opinion. The problem with PC hardware in the living room is that no matter how you dress up an HTPC to resemble a piece of consumer electronics, it's all cosmetic, and it's still a PC in that it's not a fixed hardware configuration like a console. This makes the software more complicated, adds driver issues, support costs, hardware reliability is unknown, etc. The result is a tradeoff in how polished the product can ever really be. Geeks will put up with it. Regular folks probably won't. Again, my opinion.

xmonkee 13y ago

Consider all the PC-only titles. It's safe to assume that many of them make the vast majority of their sales via Steam. If steam promises massive takeup of SteamOS, then it's in their best interests to make them available for it. From the demand angle, lots of games are console only because they fear piracy on PC versions. But if all these console users are offered a cheap new platform they can use just as easily as their consoles, it's safe to say that many of the users who buy a steambox would start buying games on it too. Console gamers aren't going to suddenly turn into torrent junkies because they wouldn't need to. This would make the PC platform profitable again. And if they start pricing games cheaper, like Steam games are liable to be, piracy would go down even further. Lots of indie PC titles are making money after-all. Overall, I think once it hits a critical mass it would be a fantastic idea for all parties involved.

DocG 13y ago

In-home Streaming seems to be backwards compility answer. This means they don't start with empty plate like Android for example. To keep cheap rig in living room for stream playing and media center, does not seem to be so bad idea. Most gaming will happen still whereever main rig is, but when you have friends over, you can just move to living room. And knowing steam(compared to others), I think it will be decently out of the box working thing. Anyway, I support linux gaming, I would love to ditch windows at last.

XorNot 13y ago
I'd love to see Linux get 1st class graphics driver support from vendors. I pay as much for my Radeon card as anyone else, but the fglrx drivers STILL don't support X composite. But other then gaming I never boot into Windows these days anyway.
- asdasf 13y ago
  I'd love to see them just publish docs so we can get good drivers instead. Bluescreens from video drivers are still a problem on windows, it is an even bigger problem on linux with fewer resources going into making the driver, and fewer people using them to serve as paying testers. Nvidia and ati/amd have both made it very clear that they either do not have the desire or they do not have the resources to make good drivers. So let the open source community do it for you.
  - sliverstorm 13y ago
    I'd love to see them just publish docs They have in the past, and got nothing but flak.
    - asdasf 13y ago
      No, they haven't. They have released bits and pieces under NDA, but never actual complete docs. That's the problem. Maybe you should have listened a little closer to the "flak" to see if it was actually legitimate problems.

kayoone 13y ago

it all depends on how many people will use SteamOS. Costs of porting games to other platforms will also go down with the next generation as xbox one and ps4 are basically standard PCs.

baldfat 13y ago

"porting their AAA releases to this platform" Play Station 4 is running a modified a Free BSD 9.0 on x86 architecture. So the work to go from a BSD base to Linux I imagine is MUCH easier than what it has been in the past in my opinion.

rkalla 13y ago
Actually an excellent point; just dug up some info, didn't realize Orbis was based on FreeBSD. Would absolutely agree that for both the engine companies (Unreal, Crytek, Unity, Frostbite, etc.) since they are already going to FreeBSD, being able to target SteamOS as a secondary platform with minimal effort would be huge. Then hopefully abstract that effort away from the publishers as much as possible so if Capcom/Microsoft/EA/Activision decide to go SOS, it is minimal work.

jsz0 13y ago

Aren't games pretty damn portable these days? It seems like most non-firsty party titles are all multi-platform now. I don't know anything about game development but they must be developing with portability in mind.

suby 13y ago
Almost every major engine out there (ie: IdTech, Unreal Engine, Unity, Frostbite) is cross platform off the shelf.
rkalla 13y ago
As suby mentioned, off-the-shelf I think these engines support multiple platforms, but it is surprising (to me) how many big, non-1st-party games don't make it across all the platforms in a timely fashion. That signals to me that it isn't as easy as we might think.

math0ne 13y ago

I think the point is that AAA titles are at a low time low of market share. Indie titles could carry this platform by itself.

rkalla 13y ago
I hate commenting in extremes, but I am willing to bet a large volume of the blood in my body that this is false and the platform would be a total failure if this was their only play (indie games). One GTA 5, for example, is equivalent to the sales produced by every indie game, combined, multiple times over. Even Minecraft with some $30-40mil is a miniscule fraction of what GTA 5 did opening _day_ and will eventually do in its lifetime. Definitely chose extremes here, but I imagine the equation looks the same with any other AAA title compared to the entirety of indie titles combined.

ascendantlogic 13y ago

I see Steam's long tail being more on the Indie side of things, giving the little guys a way to monetize their hard work without needing huge budgets. As long as they come along for the ride I think the platform can be grown organically. That said, Valve's own AAA titles alone will be good for the platform, so if they can get a handful of other major players on board I think it can be very compelling.

hadem 13y ago

Isn't part of the reason there are not a lot of developers working with Linux because there isn't near as big of a demand from the Linux community? This, if it becomes a popular option, it would/could increase that demand.

deelowe 13y ago

With the streaming support, I'm assuming you'll get immediate access to everything that's playable on your PC. It's not a perfect solution, but certainly helps with the adoption issue.

gavanwoolery 13y ago

Ultimately, what other choice does Valve have? Every single other company is coming out with its own "App Store" - few are exclusive at this point, but the tide might turn that way (already I believe Microsoft and Apple have taken steps that have made it more difficult for Steam). That said, OpenGL is an increasingly relevant player due to WebGL, mobile devices, Apple's growing market share, etc. It is also possible to simultaneously target OpenGL and DirectX with things like ANGLE. If your game is written in OpenGL, it is relatively easy to port to different operating systems, assuming you don't rely heavily on platform-specific libraries (and if you already support Mac, it is typically even easier to port to other *nix-based platforms). If the XBox One is OGL capable (via its Windows layer), porting could get even easier. To top it off, I'm pretty sure it will get support from at least of the few big engines: ID Tech, Unreal, Unity, and CryEngine all seem to be potential candidates. 90+ percent of games use one of these engines.

Mikeb85 13y ago
Targeting DirectX is a waste of time because Windows can run OpenGL, and players can use the latest OpenGL features on every version of Windows (ie. not have to update to Windows 8.1 just to use a newer version of DirectX)...

jon-wood 13y ago

"In-home Streaming" This one is going to be the killer I think - it means two things to me. 1. Not everything has to be ported to Linux straight out of the gate. 2. Its going straight on my living room machine! I've been waiting for the ability to use my beafy gaming PC (which is at a desk, with a keyboard and mouse) to drive games on the TV for a long time.

jdavid 13y ago
I don't know if that means intra-home streaming or inter-home streaming. Basically i'm not sure if that means Valve/Steam is doing what nVidia, AMD, MS, and onLive are doing or if they are doing something else.

AJ007 13y ago

Porting old games no, porting new games yes. Using the word easy liberally, Unity makes it easy to develop multi-platform games. Unreal is going the same direction. In the past each platform had its unique limitations. Now all devices down to a tiny smart phone are very powerful. The mobile market is gigantic. Users go from device to device. Take a look at Occulus Rift + the wireless devices used to control it. The days of sitting down with a keyboard and mouse are passing, even for the desktop users. Google, Apple, Amazon, and others are gearing up for what are in effect micro-consoles. Other than Apple they are all Android. Its as good of time as ever for Steam to move forward.

mbell 13y ago

> A good chunk of the console games barely make it to PC/Windows as it is, let alone a PC/Linux platform... seems like a tough sell. True today but both the PS4 and XBone are now 8 core x86 platforms with desktop style GPUs. I would imagine most developers already abstract away the OS/graphics APIs as much as possible to facilitate porting to both consoles, adding a third platform for a 'PC port' should be much easier this console generation, particularly given that the relative pain of coding for the PS3 cell processor is now gone.

lelandbatey 13y ago

Honestly, I think that what Valve's going for here is they're trying to generate hype around a "new platform" that's actually an existing platform that's underutilized. Valve sees that there's a lot of what's effectively free RND work going into Linux as a platform for gaming, but that no one's taking advantage of that. I think SteamOS is just going to be a highly tuned distro, since Valve really doesn't have the man power (or the internal motivation) to build an entirely new platform. However, they are trying to make it seem like a new and different platform so that the distributors and studios will take notice and say "Maybe we should develop for this." In doing so they'll be developing for Linux at large, they just might not know it.

lbenes 13y ago
Valve has the resources; it's more a issue of internal commitment, which I agree they don't seem willing to make. To make SteamOS a serious contender to NXE Dashboard or CellOS they'd need to: * Develop a XrossMediaBar like UI * Devote resources to Wayland or Mir to reach production quality * Create a new audio subsystem, or bring OSS v4 up to date for Linux If I heard something like Valve dedicating 5 programmers on Wayland and 2 on OSS, SteamBox could be a serious contender for my next console purchase.
- xanderstrike 13y ago
  > Develop a XrossMediaBar like UI What's wrong with Big Picture? It's very usable and has replaced XBMC as the primary interface on my HTPC. It's already almost as functional as any console or media center's interface, all it really needs is a system settings area.
- gtaylor 13y ago
  They don't really need Wayland right now, and OSS isn't required for gaming on Linux. I've been pretty happy with xorg + pulseaudio + alsa and their Steam for Linux client. I've been surprised at the quality this early in the game. I'm still a bit amazed that they've released a Steam for Linux client that works as well as it does, and that they are iterating and improving it so quickly. They've done everything right so far, let's see where it goes.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

DigitalSea 13y ago

If they announce Half Life 3 as an exclusive launch title for Steam OS, I think there are a lot of people who would give it a shot. Steam is a very influential and well-connected company, don't underestimate them.

Anonymous9823 13y ago
It's an operating system, there are not going to be exclusive launch titles. Unless of course, you think Valve is going to release HL3 only for Linux users, but that idea is absurd.
- DigitalSea 13y ago
  Games run on operating systems. They revealed there are going to be some AAA titles coming to the OS. Of course if HL3 eventually is confirmed it won't be a solely Linux only release but that doesn't mean Valve won't release it for the OS though. It was an example.

geuis 13y ago

The market is already there. Steam already has more users that both Xbox and Playstation combined.

rkalla 13y ago
Assuming you meant Xbox 360 and PS3, I think your stats are off: * Steam - ~60 million [1] * Xbox 360 - ~80 million [2] * PS3 - ~80 million [3] If you literally meant the Xbox and PS2 from 11 years ago, then yes, you are probably correct :) [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_(software) [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_game_consoles#Microsoft [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_game_consoles#Sony
- Flenser 13y ago
  That's an unfair comparison. It should be with XBox Live [1] and PlayStation Network [2] * Steam - ~60 million users * XBox Live - 46 million users as of February 2013 * PlayStation Network - +100 million although PSN includes PlayStation Portable and PlayStation Vita handhelds so the number of PS3 users is probably similar to XBox given the number of consoles sold. Also, the Steam page you referenced says: "Steam has an estimated 50–70% share of the digital distribution market for downloadable PC video games" [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_Live http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_Live [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_Network http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_Network

Aqueous 13y ago

There is no "Linux Platform", unfortunately. I think that's what Steam is doing here. Creating a platform that doesn't exist yet, to bridge PC and console gaming.

jamie_ca 13y ago

Also, even for games that do have a Windows release, it's hard enough getting a Mac release most days... Linux is an even tougher sell in the current market, but perhaps that'll change if Valve can start showing some serious SteamOS install numbers?

pippy 13y ago

One thing people haven't mentioned in this thread is the Windows Store. Windows is already following OS X in creating a walled garden with signed software. Microsoft implementing more controls on the Windows software ecosystem could be catastrophic for companies like Valve. Steam OS will ensure Valve has something to rely on, it will also force Windows to keep tabs on their software ecosystem.

damian2000 13y ago
Microsoft isn't killing the Windows Desktop (i.e. traditional windows apps) anytime soon. 99.9% of Windows users rely on it.

moneyrich4 13y ago

> Is anyone else skeptical that they can motivate publishers to spend time/money porting their games to the Linux platform? no. porting and refactoring tools are so good now you can even port a direct3d app to opengl in 2 days or less, you could use a d3d>opengl wrapper in a day of work. libraries are also so good at dual platform it requires minimal changes (usually just a new build system).. afaik the biggest change is handling input (theres no directInput on linux - most games use directInput for mouse/kb). theres also numerous benefits to a closed system economy like an app store - for example even if nobody uses it you are practically exclusive and will get more buys than other places you can sell your app.

rkalla 13y ago
I would merely make the point that if porting was as painfully simple as you suggest here, non-first-party publishers would be making their games available for every platform (in most cases) without a second thought. Even though multi-plat development is infinitely easier today than it was even 5 years ago, I still think getting titles onto multiple platforms is much harder and time consuming than you are giving it credit.

johnyzee 13y ago

> Is anyone else skeptical that they can motivate publishers to spend time/money porting their games to the Linux platform? All they have to do is heavily subsidize (or give away) the console they are undoubtedly working on. Right from the get-go you can stream your existing PC Steam games to your TV which everyone will jump on. When the installed base is large enough, publishers will follow.

rkalla 13y ago
This sounds an awfully lot like: "To be rich all you have to do is make a ton of money and then you can buy whatever you want" -- yes... I absolutely agree, but there is an ocean sized gap of potentially company-crippling decisions between "heavily subsidize/give away" and "large enough install base, publishers will follow" :)

shin_lao 13y ago

You can stream games from your desktop to Steam OS. That alone is awesome.

mortdeus 13y ago

I wrote a response to your comment but it became rather long so I decided to make it into a blog post instead. http://mortdeus.blogspot.com/2013/09/linux-core-component-powering-new-steam.html http://mortdeus.blogspot.com/2013/09/linux-core-component-po...

mortdeus 13y ago

freshfunk 13y ago

Game developers can just use cross-platform games engines (like Unity) that support Windows, Mac and Linux.