11 ms·
Moot: Full House
- burgerz 13y agoI congratulate moot for the job. 4chan's change over the years has been minimal. The biggest change was probably the captcha - initially it was a temporary fix to flooding and spam at the time, but it stayed since there doesn't seem to be an alternative. Those that use 4chan enough for the captcha to get annoying, the $20 yearly pass was a great way to get around it and to allow us to support the site as well. Also the introduction of some of those boards was simply to get shitposts out of other boards (e.g. /soc/ was created to cleanup /b/ and /r9k/). Worked great. However, I have to disagree with the sage thing. While originally the term was used to not bump a thread (implying that your own post was not worthy of bumping a thread back to the front page), in the last five years (and before that, to some extent) it HAS been used as a way to 'down vote' a thread.
- zalzane 13y ago>it HAS been used as a way to 'down vote' a thread. Sage as a method of downvoting a thread is insane and encourages even more shitposting. 4chan actually does have a "karma" that manifests in the way of replies to your posts/threads. So when you reply to a thread using sage as a downvote, you encourage the poster by giving him replies. Using sage is just a flag to the other guy that his post is irritating enough for you to sage it. This used to be a huge problem when it was popular to post troll pony threads on macho boards like /v/, /sp/, or /fit/. What would happen is there would be 10 replies in the first minute, all sages, calling the OP a retard and reminding everyone to sage and report the thread. These replies would just feed him, to which he would reply to the sages and egg people on even more - to which he would receive even more replies. The only acceptable analogue to "downvoting" on 4chan is to not reply to the thread. Nothing can dissuade a shitposter more than having put some effort into writing a good baity OP post, and not getting a single reply before the janitors delete it.
- ImplyingTheGame 13y ago>implying /v/ is macho
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- jlgreco 13y agoEven without sage, there are other popular ways to kill threads including "this thread is now about X" posts that race to the max image limit. (Where X is usually spiderman for some reason...)
- intslack 13y ago>it HAS been used as a way to 'down vote' a thread. If you're determined enough to sage bomb the thread to image limit, especially now that there's a captcha, sorta, but not really. Also cheers to moot. I've noticed the improvement in moderation first hand recently, even getting banned myself, whereas previously that board felt like it had zero mods.
- prawn 13y agoCan someone explain how the sage thing works as a downvote? I'm aware of 4chan, its style and run a forum (with anonymous posting too) myself, but I'm not familiar with any karma/scoring 4chan might have. Keen to stay aware of options to keep my forum on track.
- pyre 13y agoWhen you add a comment to a thread, it bumps the thread to the top of the list for that board. If you add 'sage' into the email (?) field, it will add the comment without bumping the thread. Each thread has an image post limit that will max out the thread and prevent the thread from bumping anymore (letting it slowly fall down the listing and eventually die). So, using sage as a way to 'downvote' is just a way of adding towards the thread limit without bumping the thread. It's a round-about way to do it though (vs. direct downvoting). "sage" originates from 2chan (aka Futaba Channel), which was the inspiration for 4chan. 'sage' is short for sageru. http://www.4chan.org/faq#sage http://www.4chan.org/faq#sage http://www.eudict.com/?lang=japeng&word=sageru http://www.eudict.com/?lang=japeng&word=sageru
- selectstar 13y agoSAGE GOES IN EVERY FIELD Ahhh, memories.
- diydsp 13y agoiiuc sage comes from sageru which is a Japanese word meaning "lower." Its use is a polite way of saying "my comment is not important enough to bump the thread to the top of the page." If this is true, sage can not be used to downvote at all, EXCEPT if there are enough sages to make the thread expire. However, that limit is something in the 100s. No one has the time and dedication to "sage a thread into non-existence," even though they sometimes call for it.
- pyre 13y agoAs was alluded to with "SAGE GOES IN EVERY FIELD," people hope to cause a snowball effect where others join in an sage the thread (by announcing loudly that they are sage-ing). In general, the idea of using sage as a downvote has been around for a while, even though it's anything but.
- asdasf 13y ago>in the last five years (and before that, to some extent) it HAS been used as a way to 'down vote' a thread. Right, and he just fixed that problem.
- redcap 13y agoWhat's the story? 4chan.org is blocked for me.
- zalzane 13y agohttp://bsamuels.net/upload/paste0051 http://bsamuels.net/upload/paste0051
- redcap 13y agoThank you.
- Mithrandir 13y agohttp://archive.is/OpHXV http://archive.is/OpHXV
- nether 13y agohttps://www.4chan.org/news?all#114 https://www.4chan.org/news?all#114 might work for you.
- nness 13y agoHa, well there's a URL that's never going to get through the corporate firewall...
- lotyrin 13y agoStrangely enough, my corp allows 4chan.org requests. It seems fairly sensitive otherwise.
- anotheraccount7 13y agoFlagged and logged. They'll discuss it at your next performance review ;)
- ivarious 13y agoThe decision of making sage invisible is interesting to discuss. Like with the quote function (or greentexting), many of 4chan's basic functions have been used for more than intended function. This creates things that sometimes are not what you want to get, but should you take away the new functions from your users?
- krisgee 13y agoYes, because sage isn't a new function it's one that was taken from 2chan and like the post says sage never was and never will be a downvote. It's just a way to reply without bumping the thread.
- parliament32 13y ago...which, based on how the boards work, is essentially a downvote. Each thread can have x posts before new posts no longer bump it. If you sage, you are using up that thread's available space (1/x worth) without bumping. Although this doesn't "downvote" in the sense that the thread is penalized/lowered, it "downvotes" because it takes up thread space with no benefit to the thread. Not to mention, sageing is a way to express your dissatisfaction with the thread, which I think was always the point (rather than trying to actually hurt the thread).
- asdasf 13y ago>Each thread can have x posts before new posts no longer bump it. If you sage, you are using up that thread's available space Few threads approach that limit. Idiots saging threads was purely a "look at me saying I don't like this thread!", nothing else. >Not to mention, sageing is a way to express your dissatisfaction with the thread, which I think was always the point Which is a bad thing, hence fixing it.
- aspensmonster 13y agoFrom: https://www.4chan.org/bans https://www.4chan.org/bans Board | Action | Length | Post | Reason | Time /b/ | Ban | 3 days | View | Global 15 - Pony/Ponies Outside of /mlp/ | 34 minutes ago Wat? I thought /b/ was pretty much anything goes. How times change.
- fnordfnordfnord 13y agoRandom arbitrary bans are not unprecedented on /b/
- krapp 13y agoIt's not really random or arbitrary if the rule is "no ponies."
- lotsofcows 13y agoI think he means that, of all the things to ban, particularly on /b/, ponies is (or rather "seems" - there's logic behind it) random and arbitrary.
- MacsHeadroom 13y agoIt's not a random rule at all though. Pony pictures were once 90% of what was posted to /b/. If the ban were lifted out would likely devolve into that place again.
- lotsofcows 13y agoYes. That's the story you and I know. However, if you don't know the story it would seem arbitrary and random.
- fnordfnordfnord 13y agoSomething like that. I've seen periods where it felt like there was relatively little moderation, and I have also seen moot and other mods banning people for very whimsical things, including for the mods own amusement. And, of course there is auto-banning to stamp out shit-posting/crapflooding/whatever you want to call it, overused memes, dubz, advertising, etc. I haven't been on there in a while, but if moot says to keep ponies on /mlp/ then don't be surprised to see bans for posting ponies on /b/. It's not even a /b/ rule; it is a /mlp/ rule. It keeps the peace. If /b/ becomes unhappy (due to too many ponies), and /b/ doesn't have the numbers to retaliate against /mlp/ then /b/ might well go flood other boards to call attention to their discontent.
- fnordfnordfnord 13y ago>The public ban log displays a sample of recent bans, which we hope will give users insight into what content is being removed, and why. This might be interesting.
- aspensmonster 13y agoYeah. Sounds like a scoreboard.
- austenallred 13y agoTried it - do not recommend clicking on the links. I mean I guess that was stuff that was banned from 4chan... I don't know what I was expecting
- tomjakubowski 13y agoSomething Awful has had a public banlist (the Leper's Colon [0]) and a per-user rap sheet for years. They do a good job of shaming rule-breakers and people whose posts are generally deemed to be poor in quality. But on 4chan, I imagine making the list will be some kind of badge of honor. [0]: http://forums.somethingawful.com/banlist.php http://forums.somethingawful.com/banlist.php
- uchi 13y agoA badge of honor many will strive for. Related, one of the funniest bans I've ever seen. http://puu.sh/4uXij.jpg http://puu.sh/4uXij.jpg
- moot 13y agoI saw this and said "Why the fuck is this on Hacker News?" out loud.
- tomasien 13y agoSame, but I'm ok with it. I haven't been on 4chan in years, but I still love it and everything that it built/made in internet culture (well - maybe not EVERYTHING). It's good that the community would be sure to vote up the very most important posts IRT it, because I wouldn't find them any other way.
- angersock 13y agoBecause moot runs one of the largest, most active, and longest-lived anonymous social networks and discussion boards on the 'net?
- nostromo 13y agoDid you notice who wrote that comment?
- christiangenco 13y ago...oh snap, moot is on HN?! For some reason I've placed him in this completely parallel place in my mind to the tech community. He's like a mythical creature of some secret world of my childhood with untold powers. But now that I'm older and am making a career out of coding websites, I look at 4chan as something that I could feasibly create. I've seen the man behind the curtain o_O
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- presty 13y agoWell, it shouldn't be much of a surprise since he has also ventured into the startup world. Backed by AZ16, etc http://canv.as/ http://canv.as/
- Sir_Cmpwn 13y ago10 years, god damn. I'm always impressed that 4chan has remained essentially the same for so many years and has been able to have a huge following the whole time. I don't think any other website has ever had so much sustained success.
- chrisbridgett 13y agoReddit?
- uchi 13y agoReddit's userbase grew very quickly after Digg drastically changed, aka 'collapsed', Reddit for a while also engaged in sockpuppeting posts to generate fake traffic to create the illusion of a userbase before it really took off. 4chan, in comparison, has always been organic from day 1.
- lmm 13y agoWasn't founded until 2005? You could make a case for slashdot or wikipedia or google, but IMO all have changed substantially in the last decade.
- spiek 13y agoArguably, SomethingAwful (founded in 1999).
- 13y ago
- induscreep 13y agokebab plz
- cstigler 13y agoThe ban list (http://www.4chan.org/bans http://www.4chan.org/bans) is hilarious. A highlight (besides all the "ponies outside of /mlp/" ones): "I cant get banned, im 17 and my birthday is tomorrow. Suck it m00t." -- Ban, 90 days, "Underage User"
- lnanek2 13y agoInteresting 4chan and Hacker News are going different ways. They decided to make bans more transparent. Hacker News recently made it impossible to reply to dead posts, so you can't even tell dead users they are dead any more.
- jaredsohn 13y ago>Hacker News recently made it impossible to reply to dead posts, so you can't even tell dead users they are dead any more. I don't think this behavior changed recently (if ever). People would frequently reply elsewhere in the thread to warn people that they are dead.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- krapp 13y agoWell, one site allows anonymous posting and practices open banning, while the other practices hellbanning and has the "karma" system which weights a users' posts as a function of their alignment with the norms of the community. They have completely different approaches to curating user identity and controlling conversation which I think are mutually exclusive, though both appear to be effective in their own way. It would be interesting to see a post or an article comparing and contrasting the different methodologies between the two sites.
- asdasf 13y agoI don't think the HN way is effective at all. Virtually every hellbanned user I've ever seen doesn't appear to have done anything wrong. So they keep posting, having no idea they broke any rules, until they realize they were banned. Then they make a new account and continue on, not changing their behavior in any way, as they have no idea what caused the ban in the first place. Shadow bans were created originally to deal with trolls. People deliberately posting garbage. It is counter productive to use shadow bans on contributing people who happened to break an unspoken rule like "don't criticize pg".
- 13y ago
- jokoon 13y agoDoes that mean 4chan is a victim of its success ? I'll always view 4chan as a website who refused to grow up and expand, because it is afraid to since it might lose its very special flavor by doing so. It seems anonymity is quite hard to implement and make us of properly.
- agoandanon 13y ago4chan lost its very special flavor about 7 years ago, when it stopped being possible to follow threads without noko'ing them.
- davexunit 13y agoPosting in a moot thread. <3 from /g/
- lcasela 13y ago>bans list >Global 2 - Underage User Why not ban the shitposters and not the underage users.
- chadwickthebold 13y agoNice try, HN. You almost got me to visit 4chan while at work! You rascals ;)
- krapp 13y agoWhy are you on HN at work... >_>