17 ms·
My Friends and I Bought an Island
- y14 13y agoCool. For how much? :)
- tynan 13y ago5 figures, not 6....
- scarmig 13y agoTotal or per?
- junker37 13y agoI would wager a guess that's it's total. He mentions island prices similar to land prices.
- bencollier49 13y agoEach?
- intenex 13y agoEach, 4 figures.
- bencollier49 13y agoI seriously envy you. Good going!
- adamdavis 13y agoIs there some reason you're reluctant to reveal the actual price paid?
- sien 13y agoThis page has prices on islands near Halifax. http://www.privateislandsonline.com/areas/novascotia/islands?direction=ASC&page=1&sort=price http://www.privateislandsonline.com/areas/novascotia/islands... The cheapest is 29K for 54 acres 2 hours drive from Halifax.
- cowsandmilk 13y agothat page tricks you a bit. really, if you click through, 29K is the cheapest lot on the island: http://www.privateislandsonline.com/islands/hemlow-island http://www.privateislandsonline.com/islands/hemlow-island You get 2.14 acres for that price.
- jacquesm 13y agoLots of widowmakers there judging by the pictures, better be careful. One thing you learn quickly when you live remote is that the nearest hospital is very far away both in space and in time and stuff that is routine in a city can get serious (or even kill you) when you're living remote. Still, congratulations, I can really relate to how you guys feel. In case there are more island enthousiasts here: http://www.privateislandsonline.com/regions/canada http://www.privateislandsonline.com/regions/canada
- tynan 13y agoWe're actually pretty close to a hospital. Five minutes to shore by boat and maybe 20 minutes to a hospital. Didn't see any scary spiders, but will keep an eye out next time I'm up there!
- jacquesm 13y agoWidowmaker, not widow spider. See, what you don't know could kill you ;) Spend some time in an unmaintained bit of forest and you'll get to know plenty of these things. Five minutes to shore when the weather is good and your engine starts. Really, please heed my advice and make sure each and every one of you knows how to do basic first aid, I hope you're never going to be in a position to use it but when you do you'll be happy you took the time and trouble. First purchase: a very good first aid kit. This is all not to piss on your parade but because I lived in a pretty remote area for 2 years and have a little bit of experience that might be relevant to your situation.
- intenex 13y agoThanks for the heads up! We'll def be sure to get on that and get some basic first aid training across the board + med kit on site. Any other advice/tips we should be aware of?
- jacquesm 13y agoYou're welcome. Basic engine repair skills, something to patch up your boat in case you spring a leak, a basic comms kit+genny so you can call up the coast guard or a passing boat if you should need them (assuming your island is out of cell phone reach), cache of freshwater, fuel, waterproofed matches and a couple of days worth of tin cans in case you ever get cut off. Halifax coast in winter can be, how to phrase this, impressive, to say the least. Mind you, the real kick is when you are isolated but there is an additional degree of risk there. No need to get your appendix out as a precaution just yet ;) All of this is assuming you're on the salty side of things, if you're in a lake it's a lot more relaxed but you will still need to take basic precautions and you'll need to be extremely careful with what you do with your wastes (you'd need to be just as careful in the ocean with that for ethical reasons but there will be fewer watching eyes so you can drop the 'extremely').
- steveplace 13y agoCan't wait for the airbnb listing.
- snitko 13y agoI wonder if indeed it's completely out of any state's control or it's technically still in a state's jurisdiction. I wonder what would happen if someone bought an island and started hiring people and making money there and not paying any taxes. My guess is that government agents would suddenly become very interested in that piece of land and would pay a visit.
- herge 13y agoThe island is in Canada. I think the Canadian revenue agency can afford a boat to inspect the island.
- snitko 13y agoMy question is not whether they can afford it or not, but whether they indeed would do it or not. If not, then you can consider this island a separate country, which is pretty cool. If, on the other hand, it's still Canada's jurisdiction, then it doesn't make any sense owning such an island.
- tynan 13y agoWe have and plan on complying with all laws. Taxes are very low, almost negligible when distributed amongst the 10 owners. The point isn't to escape jurisdiction, just to have a cool private summer came / work retreat place.
- tynan 13y agoIt's in Nova scotia, so the deed is registered there and we pay taxes there.
- herge 13y agoBe wary of the local property taxes. Any construction will count as increasing the value of the terrain, which the county will often assess over it's true value. Keep an eye on the yearly value increases and don't be afraid to contest the valuation, especially if you don't have running water, electricity, etc.
- ailox 13y agoThis is awesome. I always wanted to do something like this as long as I can remember, build something (more or less) self-sustaining in the middle of nowhere to feel fully independent. I am really curious to what extent the author plans on living there? Will there be houses next to the communal building? Solar Panels? A Generator? An on-site well? It is this Idea of your own small ecosystem which makes Minecraft so attractive. This is real life Minecraft and I hope to do something like this one day. Edit: Just to add some interesting Project: There is open source hardware for everything you need to build your own village in the "Global Village Construction Set"[1] --- [1] http://opensourceecology.org/wiki/Global_Village_Construction_Set http://opensourceecology.org/wiki/Global_Village_Constructio...
- tynan 13y agoThanks! At first it will be a summer-only thing, but we hope over 5-10 years to make it sustainable all year round. We want to use it mainly as a place to work together and get away from cities. Next summer we will be putting up a 30' yurt, a huge battery bank, and a generator. Water is the hardest, so we'll probably have to catch rain and use a desalinator. Oh-- we have awesome LTE and 4G coverage there, too!
- isaacn 13y agoCongrats on your purchase! Having 4G internet is a very nice addition to your infrastructure, and critical in this day and age. Even if you want to disconnect for extended periods of time, you still have to pay your bills and taxes. Speaking from experience, solar panels and car batteries work very well to supply a minimal amount of power for daily use (LED lights, charging cell phones and laptops, etc), but a generator will likely be needed for the occasional heavy equipment use. I'm less of a fan of windmills, but they have their place. Water is indeed the most important infrastructure element to get right, but the solution you go with often depends heavily with your power choices. It's one thing to leave a desalinization system running 24x7 and maintain it, but it's a whole different story if you need something that can be shut down and restarted several months later. Maintenance and long-term reliability become important factors. Maybe you'll get lucky and find you can drill a well for fresh water, but the size of your island makes me think that is unlikely. Other fun things to think about: plumbing, septic systems, waste disposal, hot water systems, lights, cooking, and refrigeration. Then there is always the debate of redundancy vs. simplicity. and the real cost of maintaining an often fragile infrastructure. I am very curious to hear more about your progresses in building out your island infrastructure and have subscribed to your blog.
- epenn 13y agoSometimes it's just a matter of thinking outside the box and doing a little research, rather than assuming it's impossible or impractical. Good advice in general too, not just when buying an island.
- tynan 13y agoHey guys-- this is my post. I'm flattered this made it to HN! Will be answering questions in comments for a couple hours if any come up.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- eksith 13y agoAre you just planning to camp or do you plan to setup a small cabin? Can you dig a well there? Will you allow guests to visit? A tiny produce garden? Helipad? ...I have so many, I can't type fast enough!
- intenex 13y agoHah Tynan got throttled by HN for posting too many comments too quickly. I'm also a co-owner of the island: 1. Yeah, we definitely have plans for structures -- yurts, we're actually thinking. 2. Hmm, haven't explored that option. Not sure. 3. Yep - tentatively 5 guests per each owner at a time. 4. Yeah food would definitely be fantastic. 5. We don't have helicopters yet unfortunately, but when we're mad rich sure :)
- M2Ys4U 13y ago> 5. We don't have helicopters yet unfortunately, but when we're mad rich sure :) I would've thought that a helipad would be a good idea if you ever need to be evacuated by air ambulance
- jacquesm 13y agoSweetwater well on a saltwater island this size is a rare thing.
- lutusp 13y ago> Sweetwater well on a saltwater island this size is a rare thing. Not at all. It's not uncommon to have a fresh water table beneath the surface of an area dotted with islands. If you doubt this, ask yourself where the tree's roots go, and how those salt-intolerant trees survive. I live 100 feet from salt water in Washington State and I have a perfectly reliable fresh-water well.
- patja 13y agoI am curious about how and whether building or environment impact codes come into play with this kind of remote private island in Canada. Things like septic systems, building a dock or anything near the shoreline, and even putting in a mooring buoy can be significant challenges to get approved in many US jurisdictions.
- tynan 13y agoI'm curious about this, too. We've done a little research, and it seems like building non-permanent things like sheds and yurts will be fine, but docks, septic, permanent buildings that cost over $5k will need permits. Then again, there are some pretty janky home-made docks in the bay that seem to have been there for a while.
- Zimahl 13y agoThose docks might not be permanent structures, which probably removes any permit requirements. You might want to go this route too if you all won't be visiting much or at all during the winter months. Remove your dock to 'winterize' your island.
- netcan 13y agoYou might like https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6355488 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6355488
- patja 13y agoIf it is anything like in the US, old stuff is grandfathered when things tighten up. This is why it is often advisable to look for property that already has a dock or other permanent structures on or near the shoreline. It is quite likely that none of that janky stuff could be built today.
- wyck 13y agoThis is exactly how it works in most of Canada. The new laws are strict to an extreme measure, in some cases you are not even allowed to add a window to a wall that is facing water (reflection and glare issues) or cut down any fauna within 60 feet of the waters edge. Docks usually have a permit but are limited to a specific size, and you cannot alter the general structure of grandfathered objects.
- tocomment 13y agoWhat kind of legal structure would you use for Something like this? Did you use a lawyer? What kind?
- whyaduck 13y agoI would suggest a tontine.
- tynan 13y agoIt's an LLC. We have a lawyer as a member of the group, so he drafted our purchase and sale agreement and our operating agreement. We had to hire a local lawyer, too, to draft an affidavit and to register the deed.
- mkopinsky 13y agoIf you're willing to share, I (and I'm sure others here as well) would be curious to get some kind of sense of how you wrote out the agreements.
- jrodshibuya 13y agoI'm the lawyer that Tynan mentioned, and the proud part-owner of the island. There are excellent standard form agreements available for free online. Essentially you just search for the relevant jurisdiction (i.e. the State where you're incorporating)and "standard form multiple member LLC operating agreement". Then you edit the agreement to fit your circumstances, deleting and adding as required. Standard form purchase and sale agreements are also easy to find and don't require much amendment. Pay a local title search company to check the title (ensures that there are no outstanding mortgages/covenants on it, that the seller actually owns it etc. You'll need to get a local lawyer to execute the deed, but that doesn't cost much. It helps to have a legal background, but an agreement is just a shared understanding of the meaning of words, so not too difficult.
- snowwrestler 13y agoThat's awesome! I have a feeling that you are going to get some neighbors pretty quickly as we all start looking now. For the love of Mother Nature, please hook up with a landscape architect so that you make sustainable decisions about where to site buildings, where to cut trails, etc. It doesn't take much vegetation loss to start some nasty erosion.
- tynan 13y agoI hope so. If anyone buys an island in Nova Scotia, get in touch! We're leaving all trees around the edge to prevent erosion, and are clearing very minimally. Will definitely be getting some expert advice before making big decisions, though.
- brianshaler 13y agoDo you know if there are any other islands in the area that are for sale? Any resources aside from privateislandsonline?
- hoopism 13y agoHow do you intend to prevent locals from "visiting" your island when you are away? Once someone realizes there's an awesome free island with lots of cool stuff to play with you might find it prone to vandalizing. I've had similar romantic notions about owning an island (we kayak a lot). But the reality is that every vacant island IS your island. There's plenty of islands < 1 hour away that are beautiful and completely uninhabited. Hopefully someday I will come upon yours... sounds nice. <pessimism>I hope it works out for you but taxes go up, structures get vandalized, local permits are annoying and 10 hours is a long friggen drive. And the fastest way to end a friendship is to joint own something.</pessimism>
- jessaustin 13y agoUnfortunately, the first structure in a remote location is often the first structure the local pyro has an opportunity to torch with no consequences. After losing a camper trailer (not on an island, but in a remote location) to this phenomenon, we've investigated more durable/securable structures but have been reluctant to invest in anything more permanent than tents.
- hoopism 13y agoOne of these: http://www.junglehammock.com/ http://www.junglehammock.com/ and a nice Kayak is your key to staying on any coastline or island. If there's nobody there... then nobody will mind. Ownership = headache.
- jessaustin 13y agoHoly crap I hope those are nice. The cheapest hammock they offer costs several times the most expensive tent I've ever purchased. When I kayak camp I generally just bring a tarp and a self-inflating pad.
- atjoslin 13y agoYou can get the generally most popular camping hammock, an eno, with straps and a tarp for $70 + $20 + $80 (eno website). You can get my favorite, the appalachian hammock with a slot for insulation during winter, with a tarp for $99 + $150 [2]. You need a sleeping bag to put in the hammock too too, but most people have those. =
- raldi 13y agoWhat is it about islands that gives them their mystique? I don't think a post entitled, "My friends and I bought a five-acre plot of land near Halifax" would have garnered as much attention.
- tynan 13y agoI would have never guessed that it would, either. I was pretty shocked to see it here when I loaded up HN on my phone. When I was inviting friends to be a part of this, there was a big divide... half of them LOVED the idea and felt like an island was something special (as I do), and others just saw it as some difficult-to-access land. I've had a tough time articulating exactly why an island seems special to me.
- CodeCube 13y agoAre you going to run internet access to it (or put in satellite)?
- tynan 13y agoYes, there is strong LTE and HSPA+ service there, and Canada has some decent PAYG plans.
- elsurudo 13y agoThat's news to me (I live in Canada, although in Ontario).
- tynan 13y agoI think the plan my friend was using was Rogers iPad plan... data only, but it was really reasonable.
- vecinu 13y agoI would bet on the LTE access to be constant or reliable...personal experience from living in Ontario and using both Bell and Rogers.
- scrumper 13y agoCongratulations! That's a fantastic project and a very cool retreat. I'm curious about: - Ownership structure. With 10 of you, how have you prepared for people falling out or wanting out? - What are you allowed to build on it? - How do you access it? Do you have to pay a boatman to take you out there?
- tynan 13y agoIt's an LLC. We have bylaws to deal with people wanting out, but we intentionally make it very difficult (island llc gets 1st right of refusal, every member gets a right of refusal after that, and we must approve of any buyer). The idea is that it's an investment in utility, not in dollars. One bad person on the island could ruin everyone's experience, so we guard against that. We're going to be building next year, so we still have lots of research to do. It appears that anything permanent like a cabin would require a permit, but that yurts / heavy duty tents / sheds / etc wouldn't. A neighbor on the mainland has offered us dock space and gave us a couple rides this trip. We also bought an Intex Excursion 5 off Amazon which was serviceable but really difficult to navigate in wind. We'll buy a real boat next year. HN is throttling my posts, so it may take a while to answer everything. I appreciate all the comments and questions.
- scrumper 13y agoThanks for the info. Good luck with it!
- 300bps 13y agoCan you vote someone off the island?
- tynan 13y agoYes, but only one person per week. Should have it all to myself in 9 weeks if everything goes according to plan...
- bdcs 13y agoSounds like you have done your research, but if you haven't heard of hexa-yurts, check them out! Here's a picture of different designs: http://files.howtolivewiki.com/hexayurt.com/all_yurts_edit.jpg http://files.howtolivewiki.com/hexayurt.com/all_yurts_edit.j...
- maga 13y agoWhat about visa? Do I get some kind of resident visa if I buy an island in Canada?
- _delirium 13y agoNo, not any more than you get a residence visa if you buy a house or a farm. It's just a piece of property, and property ownership in a country doesn't typically confer immigration status. If you're American, you can visit Canada (but not work there) for up to 6 months a year visa-free. Otherwise you need to apply for a visa through the usual process.
- Tortoise 13y agoNo, but US citizens and green card holders can visit Canada for up to 6 months as a tourist without a visa.
- stcredzero 13y agoBack in the early 90's I ran across an island in a lake in British Columbia that was supposedly priced at $35k.
- TamDenholm 13y agoIs there any site or organisations that are around for the purpose of buying these kind of things? Kind of kickstarter but more larger payments for a percentage of a large purchase? I suppose kind of like a timeshare, but not a rip off? I've come across 1 thing like this myself, which is a car club, you pay £10k and you get X days per year to drive the cars in their selection but you also own something like 5% of the company that owns the cars. I'd be very interested in other kind of group buying things like this.
- herbig 13y agoI'd like to echo others and say that this is indeed awesome. At 5 acres, are you concerned at all about deforesting it too much over time?
- lutusp 13y agoI have some experience in this area. If ten people rely on firewood for heat, and if they live there in the winter, and if the island is heavily forested, the trees will last maybe five years before any further cutting will start eating into property value and privacy.
- tynan 13y agoI'm actually really into learning about forest management. I've been reading a lot about it, and it's fascinating stuff. Based on our usage, it seems that we should be fine, especially since few people will be coming in winter. My bigger concern right now is bringing back birch trees! We have some dead ones, but very few live ones. The whole island is balsamic fir right now, so it smells like Christmas trees.
- NDizzle 13y agoNeeds tree houses asap!!!
- southpaw1227 13y agoWhat process are you using for finances? A budget meeting to agree on what to chip in for future years and for what those monies go to? Did you all sign something already that talks about distribution plans if and when one of the group passes away? Any plans to enforce "no trespassing" when none of the group is there? Congrats, by the way!
- tynan 13y agoThanks! We have a bunch of rules to cover things like this. Everyone is expecting to pitch in another $1000-2000 next year to build a communal yurt, battery bank, get a boat, etc. We're told by locals that trespassing isn't a problem. We could put motion detectors / cameras if necessary, but I doubt it will be. Thanks!
- herge 13y agoMy family has a cottage in the backwaters of Ontario (although ~one hour from Ottawa). It's on a lake, but very off the grid, without electricity or running water. We have propane stoves, refrigerators, lights, etc. It's a bit less remote than an island, seeing as you can take a car into town, and the stray hunter still comes through once in a while.
- lukethomas 13y agoDo you plan on staying the winter?
- tynan 13y agoI hope to some day have it visitable in the winter, but not expecting it to be ready for that any time soon. The idea is to start with a cool private camp site, and eventually build it into a year-round sustainable retreat.
- samstave 13y agoA few years ago I was looking into this as well, but in the Philippines -- there were a ton of amazingly beautiful and affordable islands in the Palawan region... the problem was getting stuff/services onto the island. Getting power, water, sewer made the cost extremely high. Even with Solar/Septic - getting equipment and suplpies was just far too much for me to undertake and afford. So CONGRATS on succeeding. How much for an 11th person share in the Island? Have you setup an "infrastructure" fund where all ten of you contribute a monthly amount - and then spend it annually on one big buy for the Island? I'd recommend you see about purchasing used shipping containers and having them barged over to the island: this will let you store stuff - and if you're crafty enough, there are tons of examples of building housing from them online. Start planting seeds of edible plants all over the island. Digging a well might prove to be a bit costly...
- brador 13y agoDo you have more precise details on the costs involved with that Philippine island idea? What kind of numbers?
- samstave 13y agoThis was in ~2003... There were islands in Palawan fro sale at the time that were uttery perfect for ~$35,000 USD - large enough for a house, had a really nice beach etc... The problem was that in the northern part of Palawan, you either need to ship from Manilla, or fly stuff in. The islands were too small/rocky to be able to have a well, so water was an issue - as was power - you'd need to basically have solar/wind/generator (which meant boating in fuel regularly). So - I don't have exact numbers - but it made buying an Island for ~35K really mean that you'd need ~$250K+ to really accomplish something.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- jpatokal 13y agoAlso, buying an island in a 3rd world country is an entirely different proposition from doing it in a place like Canada. For example, keeping your stuff safe becomes a major concern, especially if you're planning to only visit every now and then; you pretty much need to hire a permanent caretaker. Also, in the Phils (and most all Asian countries) foreigners can't buy land directly, so you need to use various workarounds of dubious legality like setting up a corporation with a local citizen as director and an undated, presigned letter of resignation, etc. And you're still screwed if somebody in power doesn't like what you're doing. There was a bizarre case a while back with some Finnish guys setting up camp on a remote Indonesian island (with go-ahead from the locals, mind you) that eventually ended up with the army showing up to kick them out with lots of chest-thumping about Indonesian sovereignty, but my Google-fu is failing me right now...
- lutusp 13y agoQuote: "Over the years we'll build up the island, doing most of the work ourselves. We'll build a communal building with a shower, kitchen, lounge, and bathrooms. Each owner of the island gets to pick a spot on which to build their own little structure to sleep in. Together we'll build infrastructure, gardens, a fire pit, and whatever else we can come up with." So, not counting significant others, ten people sharing a five-acre island. That's 1/2 acre per person except that not all five acres will be flat, buildable land, and you will have to sort out who lives where, without friction. This works when you're young, before you start thinking about issues like privacy and personal space. By the time you and your friends are 30 years old, the island will likely be a distant and probably bitter memory. I speak as someone who lived through the 1960s American back-to-the land, communal-living, private-property-is-a-crime phase.
- JoeAltmaier 13y agoBut it was beautiful while it lasted, no?
- lutusp 13y ago> But it was beautiful while it lasted, no? Yep. It was: http://www.atariarchives.org/deli/cottage_computer_programming.php http://www.atariarchives.org/deli/cottage_computer_programmi...
- SwellJoe 13y agoTynan is already over 30. He doesn't seem to be indicating anyone plans to live there permanently...it sounds like it is intended as a getaway, rather than a home. No mention of building gardens, major construction, or dealing with longterm freshwater, garbage and sewer, etc. In other words, he's building a private campground, not a commune.
- tynan 13y agoI'm already over 30, as are many members of the group. I was extremely selective on who I invited, and they're all people I trust completely. There will be issues in the future, but we've come up with rules to deal with them. Also, as noted below, none of us are planning on living there full time-- just visiting over the summer, hopefully all at the same time.
- tpurves 13y agoNot all Canadian Islands are so cheap. Here's a single family island for 14.4 Million in Muskoka - http://www.realtor.ca/propertyDetails.aspx?propertyId=13355666&PidKey=-351405494 http://www.realtor.ca/propertyDetails.aspx?propertyId=133556...
- orenmazor 13y agoMuskoka is right in cottage country in Ontario. huge, huge difference from an island near Edmundston.
- intenex 13y agoHey all - co-owner here with Tynan. He tried to reply to all your comments but you guys left so many he got throttled by HN and now can't post. Shame on you all. Just kidding - but really, he's throttled atm. He'll be back to reply to posts when he can!
- vinhboy 13y agoWhy would you guys buy the island without seeing it first? Were you guys just really excited?
- lightbritefight 13y agoIt hit three of their big metrics. What it looked like was probably a perk in comparison to cost, where it was, and availability.
- tynan 13y agoWe didn't transfer the money until seeing it. As the commenter below said, it hit our metrics, so we figured that barring an infestation of wild tigers or something, it was worth buying. So we went up, camped for a night to check it out, and wired the money the next morning.
- zheng 13y agoWouldn't an infestation of wild tigers make it more worth buying? =)
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- ChuckMcM 13y agoCongratulations! This is something I've always thought would be cool too. 5 acres is a good size, large enough that you can feel "away" when you are in the middle of it, but not so big that you can actually get lost. Some suggested next steps. Get a good aerial survey done, with pictures. This will help in planning, in disputes, and later in figuring out what it looked like before that thing that just happened, happened. Also hire a geologist to do a survey (if they haven't already) and identify all the water flow. You may want to build a cistern to collect fresh water when it rains/snows. An acquaintance of mine who has a place in the seattle/vancouver area also build a small gauge rail line from the dock to the center of the island where accomodations were. Mostly he's a train nut and that scratched that itch but its great for bringing stuff in before storm season sets in. +1 on the local visitation. People will drive over there and walk around. In the US you need to put signs posting it as private property if you want to have a hope of charging people with trespass. If you set up a fire pit and a place for your friends to sit around an chat, that it exists will get out and you'll have other people "borrow" it when you aren't there. Definitely a lot of fun though. I am very jealous :-)
- jacquesm 13y agoPosting private property is a good idea, not only because of telling people off but because you could be liable for claims if you don't and someone you did not invite gets injured. (crazy, I know, but that's the law in some places). Jealous as well :)
- worldsayshi 13y agoAs a Swede; yes, that does sound a bit weird: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_to_roam http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_to_roam
- tibbon 13y agoAs an American- i had no idea! Interesting.
- BrandonMarc 13y ago
- jmacd 13y agoWelcome to Nova Scotia
- tynan 13y agoThank you! Some of my ancestry is from there, but it's the first time I've visited. I was really struck by how friendly everyone is, and how beautiful the area is. Halifax was a cool city, too.
- lifeisstillgood 13y agoI was struck by the "climate does not matter" part - I have always assumed Canada will be one of the 22nd century's big winners in climate change terms (lots of nice melted permafrost agricultural land and an extra 6 degrees would be balmy) the upshot of this is I assumed land north of Toronto is always going to be a good buy for grand children. am I thinking too small?
- jacquesm 13y agoI still have 100 acres for sale there if you're interested ;)
- Element_ 13y agoCanada may be a big winner from climate change but it won't be because of permafrost. Melted permafrost is essentially swamp land, development is generally much easier when it is in the frozen state. Oil companies go so far as to install passive cooling radiators on oil pipelines to keep the ground they are built on frozen.
- phogster 13y agoShame on me for thinking this but, any chance of internet connectivity there?
- tynan 13y agoI should have mentioned this in the original post-- we actually have HSPA+ and LTE coverage! Super lucky, as this is the only utility that we couldn't easily do ourselves.
- debacle 13y agoHe said in another comment that some portion of the island has cellular service, so I would assume so.
- dghughes 13y agoHalifax has a population of around 500,000 people. He probably has better coverage than I do. I live in PEI his neighbor to the north.
- Nomlab 13y agoTynan and friends, congrats. First thought: build cool treehouses. [PS Tynan: Hope this HN juice finally gets you accepted into YCombinator.]
- tynan 13y agoThank you! I was hoping to build a treehouse, but a hurricane wiped out most of the big trees in 2003. Now it's all 6-20' tall Balsam Firs, which are too small to make treehouses in. Maybe in 20 years...
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- shawnee_ 13y agoOver the years we'll build up the island, doing most of the work ourselves. We'll build a communal building with a shower, kitchen, lounge, and bathrooms. Each owner of the island gets to pick a spot on which to build their own little structure to sleep in. Together we'll build infrastructure, gardens, a fire pit, and whatever else we can come up with. A couple years ago I bought some rural land with the idea that something like this. . . something I think of as "ecosteading" is going to become a trend of sorts. The idea that I'm working on (and have already applied to YC and a bunch of other incubators with) is actually right along this line: a platform for people to buy and sell land, exchange ideas for ecological homesteading, even build out a platform for more intelligent urban planning. When it's done from the "ground up" (literally), there are all kind of future headaches that can be avoided. Imagine if the Hyperloop or the California high speed rail had been able to be laid down before most of the development around this insanely populated state took place. Population growth is exponential; it's inevitable that we're going to need smarter ways of transporting people and consumables. The key is figuring out where these new hubs of population are going. Like-minded people congregate; and this idea gives them a way to do it with others. If this sounds like something interesting/exciting, I am kinda sorta looking for people to work with. Research it, tell me what you can offer (it's Rails!) and what you think of what's done so far: https://angel.co/ecosteader https://angel.co/ecosteader (email only please)
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- machbio 13y agoWith the Global Warming upon the Human Race, it will be stupid to buy the Islands which might not last forever... All the Islands that are available look like they might submerge within another 5 years.. paying those exuberant rates for islands is stupidity.. Look for Islands with a Hillview, that might work out..
- lutusp 13y ago> With the Global Warming upon the Human Race, it will be stupid to buy the Islands which might not last forever. All the Islands that are available look like they might submerge within another 5 years. Not five years. Sea level rise at present is about 3 millimeters per year. Over five years that becomes 15 millimeters, or 1.5 centimeters, or about 1/2 inch. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Current_sea_level_rise http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Current_sea_level_rise "From 1950 to 2009, measurements show an average annual rise in sea level of 1.7 ± 0.3 mm per year, with satellite data showing a rise of 3.3 ± 0.4 mm per year from 1993 to 2009 ..." This is not to diminish the seriousness of global warming, only to put it in perspective.
- meerita 13y agoCorrect me but you buy an island but you're not able to make you're own country in there. You're still under Canada's rule I guess.
- jonknee 13y agoIt depends entirely on the size and power of your military.
- meerita 13y agoHow so? Then I can buy any kind of land and claim it as my own :)
- lorax 13y agoYes you can, you still have to have a powerful enough military to defend your claim. In fact, given a large and powerful enough military you don't have to buy the land before claiming it.
- jonknee 13y agoYou'll unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on your point of view) find that military strength costs vastly more than land. Even a billion dollars buys you a ton of land most anywhere, but it buys you vanishingly little security if sophisticated entities want to take it from you.
- corresation 13y agoIt sounds like you guys really thought this through (with the LLC, etc), however I can't shake the feeling that you're going to find this a bit like owning a boat: it sounds like much more fun before you actually do it. Five acres is slightly more land than I have (in the exurbs of Toronto), and is almost certainly much more awkward, with less usable space. I mention that because I can't imagine trying to facilitate the desires of 10 different owners on such a plot, and the practical limitations of such a space will become quickly apparent. Notions of being sovereign and all of that seem really strange -- you fall under just as many regulations (if not, in some ways, more) than a plot on the mainland. Assuming that you will fly under the radar is a dangerous gambit. To visit this place you rely upon the graces of what is to you a foreign country. A simple DUI or possession charge in the US == barred from Canada. And so on. Totally get the thought (I have bid on various large parcels of land throughout Ontario), though, just think 5 acres is just much too small.
- saalweachter 13y agoTotally agree on the size. In much of the rural midwest, 5 acres is the _minimum_ plot to build a house on. One single-family house. Five acres was how far we could play as children without going "far". It's 3.78 American football fields. That said, it's five more acres of island than I own.
- jacquesm 13y ago5 acres in si units is 20,000 square meters. A typical house in nl is on 200 square meters if it is a house in a row and on maybe twice that much or a bit more if it is freestanding.
- lostlogin 13y agoThis always blows my mind. Our last house was 85 square metres and our current is 95. With a small child we need a little more, but any more than 120 is just too big. Too much crap accumulates, too much cleaning, too much maintenance (I could prep and paint the whole interior of our house in 2-3 coats in a week after work in pretty sure). Property taxes cost more with bigger houses and things get complex fast. For example, all water in and water out happens over about 7m of one side of the house. Leaks, supply etc are so much easier to deal with. I can get above and below any problem fairly easily as it's single level. When the child goes feral at night, it sure would be nice to have 10 doors between us, but no house could stop that noise. Medium/small house believer.
- Nicholas_C 13y agoI hate to be the Debbie Downer but this seems like something that feels really cool and fun at first but then loses it's novelty after a while and then gets forgotten about.
- mcv 13y agoIf they cleaned it up and improved it a bit, they might be able to sell it at a profit.
- burgerz 13y agoSo everything is about money, not doing something adventurous and exciting. zzzzz.
- mcv 13y agoNo, it means there's a backup plan. The complaint was that it might only turn out to be adventurous and exciting for a little while. My point is merely that you can always get out again and spend the same money on something new and adventurous and exciting.
- kamakazizuru 13y ago"I bought an Island" ... on a blog about minimalism...
- tynan 13y agoYeah, but it's my ONLY island.
- intenex 13y agoFor now*. Don't forget the artillery for imperializing neighboring islands.
- martimoose 13y agoHehe I had that exact comment written, then I hit ctrl-f and it happened that you beat me
- tocomment 13y agoDoes anyone have tips for buying cheap land in general for camping and maybe building a cabin? I've always been curious to do that but I've no idea where to start.
- swalsh 13y agoI'm reminded of the Reddit Fantasy: http://www.reddit.com/r/redditisland http://www.reddit.com/r/redditisland
- jimktrains2 13y agoYou could probably let a lot of kids (college students) have a lot of fun surveying it. I would seriously consider approaching a local college or university if you'd want. Bonus is that you'll get some good maps out of it:)
- tynan 13y agoAwesome idea, thanks!
- brandall10 13y agoJust for people new to who Tynan is, he's a pretty far out guy. Some things I recall (sorry haven't kept up over the years) 1) Ran a successful professional online poker playing business, actually hired employees and trained them to predictably win. 2) Was one of the main characters in the book The Game (yes, that PUA one). 3) Did polyphasic sleep experiments in earnest (was it a couple months or so?). 4) Had a giant inflatable outdoor pool inside his house, taking up his entire livingroom. 5) Sold all his belongings, including said house, and travelled the world for a year with almost nothing... probably in 2k8 or so before such an idea became more commonplace. There's probably some much cooler stuff I'm forgetting, but hey it makes perfect sense he'd be part of an island buying crew.
- fibertbh 13y agoOff-topic, I know, but are we calling 2008 "2k8" now? Is last decade the 2k's?
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- chaosmatic 13y agoI believe the practice starts with resistors, and because of differences in use of . and , and the fact they are hard to tell apart, the units are placed in stead of the . ie 1,500 ohm -> 1k5 ohm
- dhughes 13y ago> caught wild crabs... You may want to check with the DFO (Dept. of Fisheries and Oceans) on that. Licenses are sold for many types of shellfish and you want have fishers with licenses for crab, clam, oysters etc. near the island. http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/rec/species-especes/shelltable-tableaucoquille-eng.htm http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/rec/species-especes/shell... Recently one lobster fisherman (farther off shore) was caught cutting trap lines and the owner of the lines shot him a few times and then ran him over in his boat. Fishing is taken very seriously in this region, it's all some people have done for many generations. Other than that you should be fine.
- tynan 13y agoVERY useful site-- thank you!
- papercrane 13y agoThose are Pacific water regulations. This site, http://novascotia.ca/fish/ http://novascotia.ca/fish/ is what you'd want. Just in general in Nova Scotia you don't need any license for non-commercial fishing in tidal areas (still need to observe bag limits though.) You do need a license for any fishing in fresh waters. If you're hand picking crabs you're fine. Just don't set any traps or snares, but you might want to check to see if they are safe to eat. Sometimes the close areas for shellfish harvesting due to food safety concerns. The murder that dhughes is referencing had more to do with it then them just catching someone cutting their lines, there was a long history between the victim and the boat crew.
- dhughes 13y agoWhoops! Didn't see that, good catch ;)
- 13throwaway 13y agoHere's an interesting link. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micronation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micronation
- sylvinus 13y agoOne question: weren't you afraid not to have visited the island before you made an offer?
- tynan 13y agoNot really. Did as much research as I could, and most of the value of the island to me is having a group of friends with an island to build up by our own designs. Also, we did check it out before wiring the money. If it was burnt down or something really bad, we wouldn't have bought it.
- GoldfishCRM 13y agoIn sweden you dont have to buy an island. All the island are free to camp at. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_to_roam http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_to_roam
- base698 13y agoNot to mention Switzerland, Norway, and Finland as well.
- henrikschroder 13y agoMy family has a summer house out in the Stockholm Archipelago, it's on one of the tens of thousands of islands, it takes an hour to get there from home, and on our island there are about 60 houses, and there's ok infrastructure including public transportation to get there. If you want more solitude, you just take the boat and go out to the more remote ones, there's nothing special or magical or mystical about "owning an island" to me, since that's how I spent my childhood summers. Then I realized that archipelagos are pretty rare, which keeps the concept out of reach for most people.
- burgerz 13y agoWhy not just disclose the price?
- dsuth 13y agoProbably because it's none of your business. Seriously, what could you get from a firm figure that you couldn't get from the generalisation of between 10 - 100k?
- burgerz 13y agoWhy not just answer the question? Why all the secrecy surrounding cost when one could easily find out how much something costs? If somebody asks, it's because they are curious of the value. 10-100k is a huge range that most islands would fit into.
- mehmehshoe 13y agoI wonder if a small heard of goats/sheep could be self sustaining out there and help with clearing some of the vegetation? Out here in fire country, people with large acreage will rent sheep from farmers to come and eat the brush over a month or so. I saw some at Sears Point once and I have to say the critters did a better job than a large mowing machine.
- contingencies 13y agosmall heard of goats... Nice. You could produce organic goat cheese - island chevre - chèvre de l'île.
- rektide 13y agoInvestors and builders, please remember that your property's value is sinking. Sinking, sinking under the waves of the rising sea.
- thejulielogan 13y agoStep 1. Buy Island Step 2. Build treehouse Step 3. Swiss Family Robinson Step 4. Thwart Pirates Step 5. Become a host on AirBnB. "Lovely Family Getaway"
- jcooper2 13y agohttp://www.privateislandsonline.com/islands/mavuva-island-lots http://www.privateislandsonline.com/islands/mavuva-island-lo... Yeah that looks like a tool :)
- bm1362 13y agoI was looking through some of the listings and saw an ad for a tax haven. I guess that's the target audience?
- cipherzero 13y agoI'm curious now what it takes to become a sovereign nation, and issue your own passports, which will be recognized by other countries. Does anyone have any experience/knowledge with that? :)
- mikeburrelljr 13y agoWhat's the going rate for an island these days?
- jyf1987 13y agoi am interesting of how to develop this island would they got a solar power grid?
- wyck 13y agoAs a Canadian I would not have bought an island unless it was near a major urban center and thus has the appeal of being urban and country at the same time, or somewhere warm ..aka not in Canada. If you just want to rough it, you can lease Crown Land, fees are basically nothing if you're willing to do the paperwork, most leases last from 10-99 years, some of these leases might be open to foreigners (not sure, might need a legitimate business). Even better start of an amatuer prospecting company, you could probably lease an island the size of manhattan, again for a very low fee. You won't own the land but 99 years is usually enough. Or you could just drive really far into the bush, no one will notice.
- Stately 13y agosource for that?
- wyck 13y agohttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crown_land#Canada http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crown_land#Canada http://nslegislature.ca/legc/statutes/crownlan.htm http://nslegislature.ca/legc/statutes/crownlan.htm Each province regulates it's own Crown land: BC: http://archive.ilmb.gov.bc.ca/link_land.html http://archive.ilmb.gov.bc.ca/link_land.html NB: http://www2.gnb.ca/content/gnb/en/services/services_renderer.200832.Crown_Lands_-_Camp_Lot_Lease_.html http://www2.gnb.ca/content/gnb/en/services/services_renderer... The rest are a short Google away, some more sparse territories like the Yukon and Northwest Territories are more lax than say Ontario.
- samuraimodak 13y agoTo create a vantage point I hope you will not chop down the forest. Anyway it is your island. Congratulations :)
- sspiff 13y agoI was (much like the author) always interested in getting an island (still am.) I also gravitate toward Canada when looking for an island, because you can get fairly large islands for much less money than lets say in the Caribbean. Of course, the climate is a lot less appealing. I always wonder though, how expensive would it be to get something built on an island? I imagine getting building materials and construction equipment onto a forested island can be tricky and expensive.
- rdmcfee 13y agoThe gulf islands in BC are beautiful and much nicer in terms of climate. The San Juan islands are the southern tip of the gulf islands. Similar prices.
- Jugurtha 13y agoThis is amazing ! It crossed my mind but didn't put thoughts on how to actually buy an island. Apparently this one cost less than 100k (which can't even buy an apartment in a crappy place). I shared the link with a couple of friends.
- mkelley82 13y agoYou are living out a dream/fantasy held by many of us and obtained by few. Please do keep us informed on the awesomeness that is to come on Tynan's Island. Also, definitely look into the permaculture thing. The Zombies Are Coming! and you gotta be prepared. =)
- TomGullen 13y agoHave you checked rising sea levels and how that could affect your land holding?
- CmonDev 13y agoTwenty years later you will be able to show the exact spot to your kids. In the middle of the ocean.
- ctdonath 13y agoPerfect scenario for the "tiny house" (Google it) concept. Decent sized land, but rocky & woody makes it hard to build anything of substantial size, and multiple owners/occupants suggests multiple smaller dwellings to fit without getting in each others' way.
- joshdance 13y agoDefinitely a dream of mine.
- elf25 13y agojust blog about this - a lot! Congrats on building your dream! I hope it works out great. 10 different people with ten visions have to come together... wow. Could be real fun or...
- Gravityloss 13y agoLooks like the forest was recently cut and there's just a lot of saplings. But within some decades, it's going to look much better!
- ffrryuu 13y agoHow are you going to get electricity?
- NovemberWest 13y agoOh, you cannot be serious. Generator. Wind power. Solar. This is increasingly easy to provide on a small scale in the middle of nowhere.
- ffrryuu 13y agoIt doesn't look like there is much sun in that area. And generators are extremely expensive to run, how are you getting fuel to that island? Not sure about wind on that island either.
- NovemberWest 13y agoThen hydro, which is very do-able on a small scale. Do I seriously need to list all possible options here?
- ffrryuu 13y agoIf money is no object...
- NovemberWest 13y agoA quick google suggests micro hydro can be done for as little as $1k. And once yiu have your own power plant, you won't have monthly electric bills. Here is some info: http://www.alternative-energy-news.info/micro-hydro-power-pros-and-cons/ http://www.alternative-energy-news.info/micro-hydro-power-pr... Poverty is often very expensive and often involves the cheapest upfront cost but frequently leads to high lifetime costs. So I think your argument is ridiculous. Energy independence is often more about mindset and lifestyle choices than budget. I hsbe never been in a position to pursue it, but I never viewed that as being about dollar cost per se.
- lazyeye 13y agoTynan you may not be aware of this but there is actually a word for this. You are an "islomaniac". Highly recommend this book which is a true story about what Id consider to be the ultimate islomaniac:- An Island To Oneself by Tom Neale http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Neale http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Neale http://www.amazon.com/An-Island-Oneself-Tom-Neale/dp/0918024765/ http://www.amazon.com/An-Island-Oneself-Tom-Neale/dp/0918024... Probably one of my favourite books actually.
- erict19 13y agoI'd thought you appreciate this: "two brothers inherited one of the Hawaiian islands, Niihau, and have turned down all offers to sell including $1 billion from the U.S. government" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Robinson_(environmentalist) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Robinson_(environmentalis...