7 ms·

Why I'm Getting a PhD

137 points by johnbender 13y ago

traviscj 13y ago
Good luck. I'm just finishing mine. It's been a hard path, but also incredibly stimulating and awesome in a lot of ways. I'm an applied math-type, but your list of topics looks like a great start. My most successful peers knew exactly the things they wanted to work on and have nailed it. Cheers!
priley 13y ago
It's totally not worth it unless you want to be a professor. Trust me.
- seanmcdirmid 13y ago
  It's totally not worth it unless you want to satisfy your own curiosity rather than work on someone else's (usually stupid) startup idea. Trust me. The author's reasons are valid. I hope he looks into doing research in live programming, which seems to be within his interests.
- cli 13y ago
  Suppose that I want to do basic research in, say, physics. How would I do so without a PhD?
  - mbreese 13y ago
    If you were doing that, you'd likely either be a professor (of some kind), or on that track post-doc, etc... or the national laboratory equivalent. I don't know how many PhD-level "staff" positions there are on the big physics experiments. It's probably more accurate to say "unless you want to be an academic" as opposed to "unless you want to be a professor", but since becoming a professor is usually the goal of an academic career, it's a fair statement to make.
    - cli 13y ago
      Thank you for the reply. So the only, or at least best, way of doing science research is to be an academic, or work at a national laboratory (does that count as academia?)? Thus, the statement "only reason to do a PhD is to be an academic" is isomorphic to the statement "only reason to do a PhD is to do basic science research"?
  - themodelplumber 13y ago
    How basic, and what qualifies as research? http://thinkinghard.com/blog/AmateurTheoreticalScience.html http://thinkinghard.com/blog/AmateurTheoreticalScience.html >In recent times, science has become very professionalised. Many of the steps in the list above serve specifically to maintain high professional standards. For example, step 5 – complete a Ph.D. – is a way of measuring an individual's likelihood of making significant contributions to scientific knowledge.
  - auctiontheory 13y ago
    You wouldn't be able to. But keep in mind ... (1) It's extremely difficult to get a job doing basic research in physics, even with a PhD. (2) The OP hasn't said he wants to do basic research.
  - tmarthal 13y ago
    You can definitely get a job as a staff researcher at a national lab or small applied-science company (there are a ton of companies doing DARPA research). Note that due to the way the world is, you may not be able to be the prime scientist on a contract, but that does not stop you from doing basic research via collaboration. If your contributions become noteworthy in the field, then along with the relationships that you've generated with your DARPA/NSF/? partner, you will eventually be able to be a prime. To reiterate some of the other comments here, you may not be able to pick the 'basic research' that you want to work on in the above scenarios... usually the grant sponsors decide that.
    - cli 13y ago
      Thank you for the reply. Do you mind if I ask some more questions? Suppose that I am financially independent and do not care about being paid, then would that open up more paths for me?
- ColinWright 13y ago
  It's not for everyone, and maybe it's not for you, but my PhD was definitely worth it, and I was never going to be a professor. I'm sorry that it didn't work out for you, and that you feel you wasted your time, but don't presume to speak for everyone. You don't speak for me.
  - themodelplumber 13y ago
    > and now I know not to trust you. Was that part really necessary?
    - ColinWright 13y ago
      As soon as I submitted it I went back to remove it. But thanks for calling me on it anyway. But perhaps you can find a more diplomatic way to say the same thing. When someone says something that's clearly an opinion, and wrong in my experience, and follows it with "Trust me," it's a guarantee that I will regard everything they say with suspicion. Should that not be the case? How else should I point out the consequences of their utterance? Or should I let it pass, and not try to help them see the consequences? I'd be interested in your thoughts on that.
      - themodelplumber 13y ago
        Ah, so that was a response to the commenter's "trust me" remark. Perhaps "why should I trust you over some thousands of grad students," but it's difficult to gauge the amount of thought or research the commenter puts into "trust me," which is thrown around pretty liberally in modern English. When a friend says, "trust me, don't drink the water," and clearly his experience with water was not representative, if you want to keep the friend you're probably better off addressing it as a water quality issue instead of a trust issue. I'd say let the trust subject pass, and probably also save vocabulary like "utterance" for your enemies, or people wearing sith lord halloween costumes, etc.
        ColinWright 13y ago
- spartango 13y ago
  It really depends on what you value to be "worth it". If you value the end goal of becoming a professor, you'd agree the Phd is "worth it"; perhaps this provides a career-oriented perspective. But consider the other values: If you want to explore a novel, foundational (perhaps theoretical) area of the field, academia represents a good venue. The journey is what is "worth it" to the value of intellectual curiosity. Similarly, if you value gaining extreme depth in a narrow topic area to the end of advancing that topic area, academia enables an appropriate level of focus for that. Blanket statements of what academia is useful for are biased by individual values, and are thus generally unhelpful. Not everyone pursues a path for its ends or career utility.
- abstractbill 13y ago
  Ten years after getting mine, I'm still glad I did, even though I wound up deciding not to be a professor after all.
- cossatot 13y ago
  Disclaimer: I am in geoscience, not CS, so my situation isn't the same as the blogger's. But much of the important things should still apply. There are a lot of sacrifices to be made, it's really not for everyone, and timing is pretty important, but... Though I'm not sold on becoming a professor, getting my PhD was a great experience, and really has set me up for a lot that I wouldn't have been able to do otherwise. Especially in the US system, where most students are required to do some teaching and a good amount of coursework in addition to rigorous research projects, there is a lot of personal/intellectual/character development that comes from not only balancing these responsibilities but being able to intellectually parse, synthesize, improve, and communicate the content. Granted, there are other ways to get some of these experiences, and a lot is missing, but there is some serious Gestalt here. Qualifying exams, as fear-inducing and social-life-destroying as they may be during preparation, really do whip you into intellectual shape. And if you are really interested in your research, and your methods of inquiry are sufficiently compatible with the 'establishment' to keep you out of too much trouble, the opportunity to immerse yourself in your interests is rare elsewhere, especially if there isn't a lot of immediate monetary incentive to study the subject. I do industry consulting as well as academic research now, and the industry stuff is still considered 'research'. Neither position would be available to me without a PhD, and I like both jobs much more than the work I see people with BS/MS degrees doing (or what I see most faculty doing), even though I am currently a bit underpaid. So I would say that it's not always bad practical choice, even for those who aren't interested in professorships. Again, not for everybody, but it seems like the OP knows what he's getting into.
selfpost 13y ago
I was planning to apply for a phd, and not so sure. Thanks for such a nice post. Really helpful.
- Balgair 13y ago
  I'm biting the bullet this fall too. Having worked in a lab for the past year, I can see what the good ways to do it are, and the bad ways too. I hope to do it in the good ways.
  - selfpost 13y ago
    either good or bad ways, I'm just afraid of being stuck in academia. writing some papers and starting to every sentence with " according xx (1910)" are boring sometimes, you know well, I gyess :)
namarkiv 13y ago
This is awesome! I also have very similar interests and I'm applying for a PhD this year.
mikevm 13y ago
A few books that might be helpful: http://www.pgbovine.net/PhD-memoir.htm http://www.pgbovine.net/PhD-memoir.htm http://www.amazon.com/Mastering-Your-PhD-Survival-Doctoral/dp/3642158463 http://www.amazon.com/Mastering-Your-PhD-Survival-Doctoral/d...
pmelendez 13y ago
I bet I will see this entry tomorrow : "Why I'm not Getting a PhD"
- mbreese 13y ago
  More likely - Why I wish I hadn't have gotten a PhD
djcapelis 13y ago
Yes people often feel this way in their first year. Look, I'm not saying the author shouldn't do it, I'm in a grad program now. But things usually change and feelings usually get a lot more complicated before they get clearer.
hopeless 13y ago
I wish you the best of luck. I went into my PhD with totally the wrong reasoning and eventually left after 3 years. All I can say is: the PhD is about the process not the end results; and it's a qualification to conduct research and nothing more This was my collected rant: http://jamie.ideasasylum.com/2008/07/things-i-learnt-during-and-about-my-phd/ http://jamie.ideasasylum.com/2008/07/things-i-learnt-during-...
- jlees 13y ago
  Your experience mirrors mine in many ways (especially Hunt the Supervisor.. oh, the fun we had). Sounds like you were/are also in the UK -- 3-4 years for a PhD is considered fast over here in the US! I think the most unexpected part of my PhD experience was the sheer mind-numbing slog that research can become, either your own project or assisting your supervisor. Writing a pretty easy script and then running it 1000 times with different variables on different datasets. Reviewing a metric ton of papers for a forced lit review. etc. I loved the freedom of thought, and learned a lot about what I was interested in and motivated by. I loved the structure of academia, the familiar support networks, and I found I really enjoyed teaching. I particularly liked thinking up bizarre ideas and having the skills and tools at my disposal to see if anyone had done it before and quickly knock up a messy but functional way to test it out. For me, it boiled down to wanting to do work on messy, imperfect data that came from the real world, which was at odds with the highly curated and neat datasets that can get you nice, repeatable results suitable for a PhD. Would I have stuck it out if I could have done the research I really wanted? Having seen friends go through the writing up stage and break under the pressure, I'm not sure. I'm not intending to go back and finish it, that's for sure. Side note: the font size for your Joel on Software quote is insanely large (Chrome/Windows).
bfe 13y ago
For something like an opposite perspective, there's "Why I'm leaving [my job as a CS professor at] Harvard [to join Google]": http://matt-welsh.blogspot.com/2010/11/why-im-leaving-harvard.html http://matt-welsh.blogspot.com/2010/11/why-im-leaving-harvar... Shorter version of both posts: "Working at (university/big tech co.) frees me from all the distractions of working at (big tech co./university) so I can spend all my time hacking on the problems I find most interesting."
- mattgreenrocks 13y ago
  Where I get stuck: "we only accept PhDs at [GOOG/MS/FB] research." I want to be in these communities (preferably somewhere with funding + needs, likely to be a BigCo), but they don't make themselves very open.
  - Lewisham 13y ago
    FWIW, Peter Norvig was asked at an intern tech talk at Google "Do I need a PhD to work at Google?" and he replied "No, and most of the people here don't have one. What we are looking to hire is people who have the original thinking mindset that makes them able to do PhDs, even if they haven't done one." When you're working at Google/Facebook/Microsoft you're working on problems that are new to you, even if they aren't new to the rest of the company. You're learning, which is the fun bit of research. Many of the products you will work on may never have been attempted at the size/scale you are going for, and so that's research. Industry has a lot of the R of R&D, you just need to recognize it when it's happening.
plainOldText 13y ago
I know many people have conflicting opinions about PhDs, but I think this is a pretty good explanation of what a PhD is: http://matt.might.net/articles/phd-school-in-pictures/ http://matt.might.net/articles/phd-school-in-pictures/ Disclaimer: I don't have a PhD :)
burntsushi 13y ago
Is anyone else doing their PhD (or did their PhD) just because they thought it was a lot of fun and a great way to learn a lot in a short time period? Not that it's the only way to do any of those things, but I've found the lifestyle of a graduate student in CS to be extremely appealing. My mentor once suggested that a PhD is only worthwhile if you plan on doing research after you graduate. But as he got to know me better, he noticed that I was actually enjoying the act of obtaining a PhD. Isn't that enough?
- iskander 13y ago
  I've been enjoying it: work with smart folks, occasionally speak at conferences, learn whatever you're curious about.. However, the money situation can become tricky (especially in New York). I double my income from summer internships but have still managed to accumulate a lot of credit card debt. I would recommend the lifestyle only if, in addition to having a good advisor/lab and liking open-ended exploration, you (1) are habitually frugal (2) go to school somewhere cheap or (3) have a big pile of savings.
  - burntsushi 13y ago
    With regard to (2), I think it's more like, "Don't go to school in one of the most expensive places to live on Earth." :P (I go to school in Boston, and while I live closer to central Massachusetts, plenty of my cohorts who live around Boston don't seem to have any financial issues without doing an internship.)
- johnbender 13y ago
  I didn't cover this at all, but I am very excited about the education and the process. For most people though some stronger reasoning is necessary and my understanding is that the research is really the point of PhD, the education is there to support that.
  - hobo_mark 13y ago
    Congratulations, I have also been thinking about going back for a PhD sometime when "I'm older and more financially secure", even though I could never do it with a family to support at the same time, both things are already incredibly hard work on their own.
001sky 13y ago
Career Path ... Unfortunately, the problems I gravitate towards are not normally assigned to engineers and attempts to marry my interests with my domain of expertise [1,2] have met with understandably tepid responses. ,,, All of that makes perfect sense but it means I can't focus on the problems that I'm interested in. --- What Interests Me The things that keep me up past midnight working and learning are technical. Problems both large and small that remain unsolved or problems where the solution seems unsatisfactory to me. A short and incomplete list in no particular order: ... A few of these might align with a job posting somewhere but most don't. More importantly, I'm not as interested in the implementation as I am in conceiving a solution and understanding its value. ... === I guess you could say I'm taking The Fourth Path™. While I may be new to the academic environment, I have taken efforts to ensure that my impressions are not naive. === I think what is Naive here is that even with a phd you will be working for someone. to do something. So, not having a functional goal for your work is Naive. Even if its research it has a "market". There are people who value it or they don't. The trade may be "in kind", be it social favours or prestige/ego polishing, if not in discrete financial incentives (grants, etc). Its illusory to think your "career" is independent. At best, you are captive to customer if nor directly to your employer. This all might be formalistic oversights for a blog post, but still...your a mid-career executive...this stuff shouldn't be off the radar entirely. Good luck.
- javert 13y ago
  People do get paid to do the kind of work he is talking about, you know. As a sidenote, I found your sporadic quoting of his post to be annoying and completely worthless.
- mathattack 13y ago
  I agree with your thoughts on this being Naive. As an undergrad I wrote off the idea of pursuing a Phd (my initial intent) because I saw how the senior professor I assisted spent his time. A lot more mental energy went to grant writing than teaching or research. The other thing is it will be very hard to do this at 30 with kids. Best of luck with this!
  - 13y ago
javert 13y ago
I feel like he's leaving out something quite important, which is what he plans to do once he has his PhD. Professor (research or teaching?) or industry (big business or startups?)?
- tensor 13y ago
  This isn't actually very important. At least if you are in STEM. The point of the PhD is to learn. That's valuable to all career paths.
  - freyr 13y ago
    Wrong, it's extremely important. You're devoting the next 5+ years of your life to a single task. You're forgoing your programmer salary for the next 5+ years, which could easily add up to $300k - $500k in opportunity cost. Your forcing your wife and kids to come along for the ride. You're going to end up a world expert in a tiny niche that, quite possibly, nobody outside of academia cares about. You should have a pretty good idea where you want this all to lead. There are practical reasons for having a goal in mind: * If you want to land an academic job, you should be planning for that from day one. Academic positions are extremely competitive, and you need to make yourself an extremely competitive candidate. That means you must present and publish your work aggressively often, networking extensively, and choose a popular topic of research that will garner you many citations, etc. * You have to make many important decisions right from the start of grad school (who to choose as an advisor, what topic to research, etc.). Choosing poorly will have ramifications for many years to come. Having relevant criteria (such as some long-term goal) can help you with these decisions. * It's not entirely unusual for candidates to languish for 7+ years in their program, often due to lack of direction or because they expected their advisor to motivate them and keep them on track. You need to motivate yourself. Having some direction from the start can help with this motivation, and also help you from getting swallowed up by all the time-sinks that will eat away at your productivity.
    - tensor 13y ago
      This sounds a lot like you are telling us what you value in life. There are no rules in life and it's not a requirement to have your whole life planned out at every moment in time. Most people don't, including highly successful people. That's ok. What's important is taking advantage of opportunity when it is presented. If a goal of yours is to learn, then a PhD is a great opportunity for this. The value of the PhD is not even gaining expert knowledge in a small area. It's learning how to learn. It's learning how to focus so hard on one thing so as to surpass or build on what the best of those who've come before you have done. It teaches you do deal with the fear of not knowing and having nobody to tell you the answer. On the other hand, even if you end up coming to be concerned about money, it's still not a big deal. Sure, you don't go into a PhD for money. But wether you go into industry or succeed in academia afterwards, you won't be wanting for money. Hell, you can even leave part way through and get a well paying job! Besides, your counterparts who ran the corporate treadmill will only be incrementally richer than you anyways. If you really want to be rich, you need to take on big risks such as starting a company or the like. Talking about putting your wife and kids in a tough spot! That said, I hope you put something in life above money. Edit: Regarding your edits, those are concerns that you do need to consider. Though it's really not the end of the world if you don't. Simply always trying hard goes a long way to doing alright in most scenarios and there are always great fallback options.
011011100 13y ago
"Because it's my life and I believe it's worthwhile to me." I don't understand why people bother to defend personal choices, like education, as if they're in some sort of formal argument. This says more about culture and your own insecurity.
- 6d0debc071 13y ago
  Maybe they value others opinions/encouragement/feedback. A degree of insecurity isn't necessarily a bad thing, it can stop you making mistakes. I wish I'd taken some of the questions of my friends at school Why do you want to get a degree anyway? more seriously years ago.
evincarofautumn 13y ago
Your interests align with mine. I have considered academia, but for now it suffices to work on language research projects in spare time. I did get a job in compilers and build tools last year because of my language interests, so it’s certainly not impossible. Compilers experts are not in high demand, but when they are needed they can go for a pretty penny due to short supply. > I’m not as interested in the implementation as I am in conceiving a solution and understanding its value. I'm sure that will sound like laziness to some… Not at all. People like you are the reason that people like me have so many great papers to work from. The world needs people on both sides of that divide.
geebee 13y ago
I truly wish you the best of luck, and for an excellent outcome. One thing - you just can't say "why I'm getting a PhD", even from an elite school, the way you'd say "why I'm getting a law, medical, or business degree". Even if you've been admitted to an elite program, you can really only say "why I'm rolling the dice on the possibility of getting a PhD". At elite programs, there is essentially no involuntary attrition in JD, MD, or MBA degrees. Yale law school has no 1L attrition. Columbia's JD 1L attrition is 0.3%. Attrition rates at elite med school is typically well below 1%. http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2008/04/law-school-ra-1.html http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2008/04/law-school-r... (I'll stop with the googling of links here...) Attrition rates for engineering PhD students appear to be about 33%. This (to me, atrocious number) is way better than science or humanities. http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2007/12/07/doctoral http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2007/12/07/doctoral Unlike JD, MD, MBA programs, I don't believe that the numbers are better at elite schools. http://www-inst.eecs.berkeley.edu/~wicse/index.php/papers/lindareport2.pdf http://www-inst.eecs.berkeley.edu/~wicse/index.php/papers/li... I dunno, maybe Berkeley is a risky program, it is a notoriously harsh school. In spite of all I've said, I'm always hesitant to give anyone advice. There are still remarkable careers to be had in academics. Good luck.
- aaronbrethorst 13y ago
  > Attrition rates for engineering PhD students appear to be about 33%. This (to me, atrocious number) is way better than science or humanities. Perhaps this is because an engineering Ph.D. student is far better positioned to get a high-paying job than their 1L or med school counterparts. The engineering candidate doesn't need to be there to get a job.
  - geebee 13y ago
    There are all kinds of reasons. I'd certainly agree that what you pointed out is one of them. That said... then why is the engineering PhD attrition rate lower than in science, which is in turn lower than humanities?
  - freyr 13y ago
    Yes, and the med school student will earn substantially more than the PhD student (or the PhD degree holder) after completing med school. So there is significant financial incentive to finish the degree (which has likely put the med school student deep into loan debt already).
kyro 13y ago
You're lucky to have a wife that supportive. I'm about to do something considered equally as risky, and the support of my SO helps in extinguishing a lot of the fear and anxiety. I have friends who are not as lucky with SO's demanding they continue down one career path or another. Best of luck to you.
tankbot 13y ago
As someone who assigns little value to academia I would like to say, without irony or pretense: Best of luck to you, sir! I hope it's fulfilling, but never to the point of satisfaction! :)
jamesjguthrie 13y ago
Good on you John, best of luck. I'm going to be applying for engineering PhD programmes by this coming January and I'm in a similar position to you: 28, wife, 2 year old kid, trying for another, etc.
jofer 13y ago
For whatever it's worth, as someone who just finished, you're doing a PhD for all of the right reasons. You do it because you want to. Because you like getting to delve into a wide array of things. Because you want to focus more on interesting problems than interesting solutions. (Obviously, those two aren't mutually exclusive.) If you're doing it with a career focus, it's not worth it. A PhD can be a hindrance in the corporate world, and jobs in academia are difficult to get. Do it because you want a chance to do what you find most interesting for 5-8 years. (CS is probably shorter... In the geosciences, a M.S. is 2-3 years, and a PhD is an additional 4-6. Typically, you switch institutions between an MS and PhD, as well.) Also, from what I've seen, people who come back to graduate work after working for awhile are generally more successful than folks straight out of undergrad. On the other hand, a PhD can close more doors than it opens in the corporate world, at least in my limited experience. For reasons I don't understand, most people view a PhD as meaning specialization. You'll be seen as "too specialized", regardless of your actual experience and skillset. At least for me, the opposite is true. My graduate work required me to be a generalist. Everyone I know of came out of undergrad much more specialized and became more of a generalist over time.
- jseliger 13y ago
  For whatever it's worth, as someone who just finished, you're doing a PhD for all of the right reasons. That's true. I think it's telling, however, that the writer doesn't mention getting an academic job, or tenure. I hope his PhD works out for him and his family, who are implicitly along for the ride. I also hope that, in three to four years, the OP writes an essay about what he thinks after he's gone through the academic grinder. For an alternate perspective on academia, see Philip Greenspun's "Women in Science" (http://philip.greenspun.com/careers/women-in-science http://philip.greenspun.com/careers/women-in-science).
kirk21 13y ago
My main challenge is to keep focus and motivation. My weekend project to keep me motivated during my PhD: http://bohrresearch.com http://bohrresearch.com
ssw1n 13y ago
Here is a different perspective, all be it in a cynical tone: http://crypto.junod.info/2013/09/09/an-aspiring-scientists-frustration-with-modern-day-academia-a-resignation/ http://crypto.junod.info/2013/09/09/an-aspiring-scientists-f... And here's another, with much more objective tone: http://www.pgbovine.net/PhD-memoir.htm http://www.pgbovine.net/PhD-memoir.htm My take on the subject matter is that: - When getting into the PhD. track, one should be aware of what he/she is getting into, and be prepared for the resulting lifestyle. - One should have an extraordinary drive (even to the point of personal obsession) to search for answers towards the unsolved problems in his/her field of study despite knowing the consequences that will be imposed onto his/her life by this intellectual journey. - One should find a PI whose personality clicks with his/hers, and whose research he/she is motivated to work on. It is pretty rare to match these two parameters perfectly, but one can weigh trade-offs, and work with the best available while still maintaining his/her aspirations. - One should realize that, regardless of popular belief, academia is business with its own business model: understanding the intricate business logic behind the model will facilitate one greatly in his/her quest. - One should realize that like every human society, academia has its own fair share of personalities and egos, and intrapersonal skills matter, a lot.
- pgbovine 13y ago
  wow that's a great summary of key points :) and thanks for mentioning that my memoir has a more objective tone than the other student's rant. i tried hard to present both the good and bad sides of academia, as viewed through the lens of a naive Ph.D. student. ah good times.
hugofirth 13y ago
The 23rd marks the "...first day of instruction in the first academic year of my PhD in Computer Science..." at Newcastle University. Good luck :)
marincounty 13y ago
I never wanted to leave college. Why leave--it's fun and the social benefits were unbelievable. Although, I think a college degree is overrated. I truly believe a determined individual can use the Internet as a substitute for a college degree, especially Programmers. When I went to school I thought General Education requirements were a waste of time, but as I aged, I'm glad I was exposed to philophy, and psychology courses. I'm amazed how many people go through life not knowing what the Placebo Effect is.(yes--Strunk would be mad, but tired.).
polaris9000 13y ago
Looking back, I regret not having pursued a degree in Physics or Mathematics. I took the "easy way out" and pursued a liberal arts degree just to be done with college and move on. In retrospect, it would have been great to have majored in something that, perhaps, may have been more difficult but more rewarding in the long run. Therefore I suggest that, if you have the opportunity to do so, pursue your PhD. You never know when older age will sneak up on you and you will no longer have enough time to do so :)
jrobbins 13y ago
John, it's great that you want to learn more about those topics. But, don't misunderstand. Earning a PhD is like 10% learning about the topic, and 90% learning the process of research and the business of research. Based on your blog post, it's going to take a while until that other 90% really hits you. Reading papers is easy compared to writing them. Also, PhD studies and the academic life at a research institution are emotionally stressful and extremely time consuming. You have to consider the negative impact of that on your family, regardless of how supportive they are.
zmmmmm 13y ago
I see a lot of people saying getting a PhD limits your options for employment afterwards and you should only do it if you want an academic career. I'm currently completing a PhD, and that was one of my primary concerns prior to starting. However I've eventually become more at ease with it. For one, I see a new appreciation for PhD level knowledge thanks to Google et. al, who have repopularised the value of having a PhD with their hiring practises. The advent of machine learning has made higher level CS knowledge more valuable again where for a while it was even actively spurned by much of the software industry. At the same time the basic bachelor CS degree is becoming commoditized and its value is decreasing. Partly because of outsourcing, partly because of MOOCs, and partly because it is becoming evident to employers that people without college / university training can be as effective as people with that training. All up, I'm a lot less worried about this point than I was before I started.
- tokenizer 13y ago
  Good for you. I'm usually apart of the libertarian crowd of qualifications: You prove you're capable with example, not credential. This is due to my view of the cost of college, and my success in IT without higher learning credentials. That said, I would definitely give advice to young adults now that if they are going to college, they should either go for their masters/doctorate, or an advanced bachelors like nursing, law, or engineering. Anything else is just a waste of money. Everything you said about bachelor degrees is spot on.
- btown 13y ago
  I had a similar decision to go through, and I'm in a PhD program in machine learning now myself! PhD's might not be the trendiest thing in the startup world, but they're not a detriment at all from what I've heard and seen. Interned at a well-funded startup with 40 employees at the time, and we interns were literally the only tech people there without advanced degrees; many were ex-Googlers and the like. Similarly, at Microsoft I heard from many that as long as you can demonstrate that you haven't lost your touch for coding (do implementation + theory!), you're at no disadvantage relative to where you were before the PhD, and quite possibly at an advantage if you want to do more research-oriented things. Me, I may end up catching the academia bug while I'm here, but I'm not worried about losing my "in" in industry. ...now back to that problem set...
ryanSrich 13y ago
I've always been passionate about education and hope to one day be in a place where I can get my PHD. Unfortunately I've opted to relocate and travel for a couple years which has showed me that online PHDs virtually don't exist. Has anyone done an online PHD in CS or something similar?
dsugarman 13y ago
As someone who was recently persuing a PhD, I would say anyone getting one is making a huge bet on the future of traditonal higher education institutes. In general, I am scared for the future of pure science
- stephnexus 13y ago
  I think the right time to be scared for the future of pure science was in the 1970s. Pure R&D institutions started dropping like flies after that, and we almost lost our innovation edge. I think the Internet brought us back from the brink -- except now it's not large institutions sponsoring R&D, but rather small companies and individuals. Pure science suffers in comparison to small tech (like apps and web stuff) because it's expensive, but I think that could change as we perfect crowd-funding mechanisms and as enough people accumulate enough resources to start privately funding pure science research. I don't think traditional higher ed institutes are safe by any means -- but a PhD itself is still a worthwhile use of time, whether used for its intended purpose or as a pivot.
educating 13y ago
> Descriptive declarative languages that aren't Sounds like Ruby! I mean that in a good way.
stephnexus 13y ago
The problem with a PhD is that it requires a laser focus on a narrowly defined topic. I'm much more interested in the connections between different areas. Thus, no PhD so far. I also wouldn't want to put myself entirely under one advisor's control to the degree that PhD programs typically require. I do think it would be an interesting way to re-structure my time, though.

137 points by johnbender 13y ago

Good luck. I'm just finishing mine. It's been a hard path, but also incredibly stimulating and awesome in a lot of ways. I'm an applied math-type, but your list of topics looks like a great start. My most successful peers knew exactly the things they wanted to work on and have nailed it. Cheers!

priley 13y ago

It's totally not worth it unless you want to be a professor. Trust me.

seanmcdirmid 13y ago
It's totally not worth it unless you want to satisfy your own curiosity rather than work on someone else's (usually stupid) startup idea. Trust me. The author's reasons are valid. I hope he looks into doing research in live programming, which seems to be within his interests.
cli 13y ago
Suppose that I want to do basic research in, say, physics. How would I do so without a PhD?
- mbreese 13y ago
  If you were doing that, you'd likely either be a professor (of some kind), or on that track post-doc, etc... or the national laboratory equivalent. I don't know how many PhD-level "staff" positions there are on the big physics experiments. It's probably more accurate to say "unless you want to be an academic" as opposed to "unless you want to be a professor", but since becoming a professor is usually the goal of an academic career, it's a fair statement to make.
  - cli 13y ago
    Thank you for the reply. So the only, or at least best, way of doing science research is to be an academic, or work at a national laboratory (does that count as academia?)? Thus, the statement "only reason to do a PhD is to be an academic" is isomorphic to the statement "only reason to do a PhD is to do basic science research"?
- themodelplumber 13y ago
  How basic, and what qualifies as research? http://thinkinghard.com/blog/AmateurTheoreticalScience.html http://thinkinghard.com/blog/AmateurTheoreticalScience.html >In recent times, science has become very professionalised. Many of the steps in the list above serve specifically to maintain high professional standards. For example, step 5 – complete a Ph.D. – is a way of measuring an individual's likelihood of making significant contributions to scientific knowledge.
- auctiontheory 13y ago
  You wouldn't be able to. But keep in mind ... (1) It's extremely difficult to get a job doing basic research in physics, even with a PhD. (2) The OP hasn't said he wants to do basic research.
- tmarthal 13y ago
  You can definitely get a job as a staff researcher at a national lab or small applied-science company (there are a ton of companies doing DARPA research). Note that due to the way the world is, you may not be able to be the prime scientist on a contract, but that does not stop you from doing basic research via collaboration. If your contributions become noteworthy in the field, then along with the relationships that you've generated with your DARPA/NSF/? partner, you will eventually be able to be a prime. To reiterate some of the other comments here, you may not be able to pick the 'basic research' that you want to work on in the above scenarios... usually the grant sponsors decide that.
  - cli 13y ago
    Thank you for the reply. Do you mind if I ask some more questions? Suppose that I am financially independent and do not care about being paid, then would that open up more paths for me?
ColinWright 13y ago
It's not for everyone, and maybe it's not for you, but my PhD was definitely worth it, and I was never going to be a professor. I'm sorry that it didn't work out for you, and that you feel you wasted your time, but don't presume to speak for everyone. You don't speak for me.
- themodelplumber 13y ago
  > and now I know not to trust you. Was that part really necessary?
  - ColinWright 13y ago
    As soon as I submitted it I went back to remove it. But thanks for calling me on it anyway. But perhaps you can find a more diplomatic way to say the same thing. When someone says something that's clearly an opinion, and wrong in my experience, and follows it with "Trust me," it's a guarantee that I will regard everything they say with suspicion. Should that not be the case? How else should I point out the consequences of their utterance? Or should I let it pass, and not try to help them see the consequences? I'd be interested in your thoughts on that.
    - themodelplumber 13y ago
      Ah, so that was a response to the commenter's "trust me" remark. Perhaps "why should I trust you over some thousands of grad students," but it's difficult to gauge the amount of thought or research the commenter puts into "trust me," which is thrown around pretty liberally in modern English. When a friend says, "trust me, don't drink the water," and clearly his experience with water was not representative, if you want to keep the friend you're probably better off addressing it as a water quality issue instead of a trust issue. I'd say let the trust subject pass, and probably also save vocabulary like "utterance" for your enemies, or people wearing sith lord halloween costumes, etc.
      - ColinWright 13y ago
spartango 13y ago
It really depends on what you value to be "worth it". If you value the end goal of becoming a professor, you'd agree the Phd is "worth it"; perhaps this provides a career-oriented perspective. But consider the other values: If you want to explore a novel, foundational (perhaps theoretical) area of the field, academia represents a good venue. The journey is what is "worth it" to the value of intellectual curiosity. Similarly, if you value gaining extreme depth in a narrow topic area to the end of advancing that topic area, academia enables an appropriate level of focus for that. Blanket statements of what academia is useful for are biased by individual values, and are thus generally unhelpful. Not everyone pursues a path for its ends or career utility.
abstractbill 13y ago
Ten years after getting mine, I'm still glad I did, even though I wound up deciding not to be a professor after all.
cossatot 13y ago
Disclaimer: I am in geoscience, not CS, so my situation isn't the same as the blogger's. But much of the important things should still apply. There are a lot of sacrifices to be made, it's really not for everyone, and timing is pretty important, but... Though I'm not sold on becoming a professor, getting my PhD was a great experience, and really has set me up for a lot that I wouldn't have been able to do otherwise. Especially in the US system, where most students are required to do some teaching and a good amount of coursework in addition to rigorous research projects, there is a lot of personal/intellectual/character development that comes from not only balancing these responsibilities but being able to intellectually parse, synthesize, improve, and communicate the content. Granted, there are other ways to get some of these experiences, and a lot is missing, but there is some serious Gestalt here. Qualifying exams, as fear-inducing and social-life-destroying as they may be during preparation, really do whip you into intellectual shape. And if you are really interested in your research, and your methods of inquiry are sufficiently compatible with the 'establishment' to keep you out of too much trouble, the opportunity to immerse yourself in your interests is rare elsewhere, especially if there isn't a lot of immediate monetary incentive to study the subject. I do industry consulting as well as academic research now, and the industry stuff is still considered 'research'. Neither position would be available to me without a PhD, and I like both jobs much more than the work I see people with BS/MS degrees doing (or what I see most faculty doing), even though I am currently a bit underpaid. So I would say that it's not always bad practical choice, even for those who aren't interested in professorships. Again, not for everybody, but it seems like the OP knows what he's getting into.

selfpost 13y ago

I was planning to apply for a phd, and not so sure. Thanks for such a nice post. Really helpful.

Balgair 13y ago
I'm biting the bullet this fall too. Having worked in a lab for the past year, I can see what the good ways to do it are, and the bad ways too. I hope to do it in the good ways.
- selfpost 13y ago
  either good or bad ways, I'm just afraid of being stuck in academia. writing some papers and starting to every sentence with " according xx (1910)" are boring sometimes, you know well, I gyess :)

namarkiv 13y ago

This is awesome! I also have very similar interests and I'm applying for a PhD this year.

mikevm 13y ago

A few books that might be helpful: http://www.pgbovine.net/PhD-memoir.htm http://www.pgbovine.net/PhD-memoir.htm http://www.amazon.com/Mastering-Your-PhD-Survival-Doctoral/dp/3642158463 http://www.amazon.com/Mastering-Your-PhD-Survival-Doctoral/d...

pmelendez 13y ago

I bet I will see this entry tomorrow : "Why I'm not Getting a PhD"

mbreese 13y ago
More likely - Why I wish I hadn't have gotten a PhD

djcapelis 13y ago

Yes people often feel this way in their first year. Look, I'm not saying the author shouldn't do it, I'm in a grad program now. But things usually change and feelings usually get a lot more complicated before they get clearer.

hopeless 13y ago

I wish you the best of luck. I went into my PhD with totally the wrong reasoning and eventually left after 3 years. All I can say is: the PhD is about the process not the end results; and it's a qualification to conduct research and nothing more This was my collected rant: http://jamie.ideasasylum.com/2008/07/things-i-learnt-during-and-about-my-phd/ http://jamie.ideasasylum.com/2008/07/things-i-learnt-during-...

jlees 13y ago
Your experience mirrors mine in many ways (especially Hunt the Supervisor.. oh, the fun we had). Sounds like you were/are also in the UK -- 3-4 years for a PhD is considered fast over here in the US! I think the most unexpected part of my PhD experience was the sheer mind-numbing slog that research can become, either your own project or assisting your supervisor. Writing a pretty easy script and then running it 1000 times with different variables on different datasets. Reviewing a metric ton of papers for a forced lit review. etc. I loved the freedom of thought, and learned a lot about what I was interested in and motivated by. I loved the structure of academia, the familiar support networks, and I found I really enjoyed teaching. I particularly liked thinking up bizarre ideas and having the skills and tools at my disposal to see if anyone had done it before and quickly knock up a messy but functional way to test it out. For me, it boiled down to wanting to do work on messy, imperfect data that came from the real world, which was at odds with the highly curated and neat datasets that can get you nice, repeatable results suitable for a PhD. Would I have stuck it out if I could have done the research I really wanted? Having seen friends go through the writing up stage and break under the pressure, I'm not sure. I'm not intending to go back and finish it, that's for sure. Side note: the font size for your Joel on Software quote is insanely large (Chrome/Windows).

bfe 13y ago

For something like an opposite perspective, there's "Why I'm leaving [my job as a CS professor at] Harvard [to join Google]": http://matt-welsh.blogspot.com/2010/11/why-im-leaving-harvard.html http://matt-welsh.blogspot.com/2010/11/why-im-leaving-harvar... Shorter version of both posts: "Working at (university/big tech co.) frees me from all the distractions of working at (big tech co./university) so I can spend all my time hacking on the problems I find most interesting."

mattgreenrocks 13y ago
Where I get stuck: "we only accept PhDs at [GOOG/MS/FB] research." I want to be in these communities (preferably somewhere with funding + needs, likely to be a BigCo), but they don't make themselves very open.
- Lewisham 13y ago
  FWIW, Peter Norvig was asked at an intern tech talk at Google "Do I need a PhD to work at Google?" and he replied "No, and most of the people here don't have one. What we are looking to hire is people who have the original thinking mindset that makes them able to do PhDs, even if they haven't done one." When you're working at Google/Facebook/Microsoft you're working on problems that are new to you, even if they aren't new to the rest of the company. You're learning, which is the fun bit of research. Many of the products you will work on may never have been attempted at the size/scale you are going for, and so that's research. Industry has a lot of the R of R&D, you just need to recognize it when it's happening.

plainOldText 13y ago

I know many people have conflicting opinions about PhDs, but I think this is a pretty good explanation of what a PhD is: http://matt.might.net/articles/phd-school-in-pictures/ http://matt.might.net/articles/phd-school-in-pictures/ Disclaimer: I don't have a PhD :)

burntsushi 13y ago

Is anyone else doing their PhD (or did their PhD) just because they thought it was a lot of fun and a great way to learn a lot in a short time period? Not that it's the only way to do any of those things, but I've found the lifestyle of a graduate student in CS to be extremely appealing. My mentor once suggested that a PhD is only worthwhile if you plan on doing research after you graduate. But as he got to know me better, he noticed that I was actually enjoying the act of obtaining a PhD. Isn't that enough?

iskander 13y ago
I've been enjoying it: work with smart folks, occasionally speak at conferences, learn whatever you're curious about.. However, the money situation can become tricky (especially in New York). I double my income from summer internships but have still managed to accumulate a lot of credit card debt. I would recommend the lifestyle only if, in addition to having a good advisor/lab and liking open-ended exploration, you (1) are habitually frugal (2) go to school somewhere cheap or (3) have a big pile of savings.
- burntsushi 13y ago
  With regard to (2), I think it's more like, "Don't go to school in one of the most expensive places to live on Earth." :P (I go to school in Boston, and while I live closer to central Massachusetts, plenty of my cohorts who live around Boston don't seem to have any financial issues without doing an internship.)
johnbender 13y ago
I didn't cover this at all, but I am very excited about the education and the process. For most people though some stronger reasoning is necessary and my understanding is that the research is really the point of PhD, the education is there to support that.
- hobo_mark 13y ago
  Congratulations, I have also been thinking about going back for a PhD sometime when "I'm older and more financially secure", even though I could never do it with a family to support at the same time, both things are already incredibly hard work on their own.

001sky 13y ago

Career Path ... Unfortunately, the problems I gravitate towards are not normally assigned to engineers and attempts to marry my interests with my domain of expertise [1,2] have met with understandably tepid responses. ,,, All of that makes perfect sense but it means I can't focus on the problems that I'm interested in. --- What Interests Me The things that keep me up past midnight working and learning are technical. Problems both large and small that remain unsolved or problems where the solution seems unsatisfactory to me. A short and incomplete list in no particular order: ... A few of these might align with a job posting somewhere but most don't. More importantly, I'm not as interested in the implementation as I am in conceiving a solution and understanding its value. ... === I guess you could say I'm taking The Fourth Path™. While I may be new to the academic environment, I have taken efforts to ensure that my impressions are not naive. === I think what is Naive here is that even with a phd you will be working for someone. to do something. So, not having a functional goal for your work is Naive. Even if its research it has a "market". There are people who value it or they don't. The trade may be "in kind", be it social favours or prestige/ego polishing, if not in discrete financial incentives (grants, etc). Its illusory to think your "career" is independent. At best, you are captive to customer if nor directly to your employer. This all might be formalistic oversights for a blog post, but still...your a mid-career executive...this stuff shouldn't be off the radar entirely. Good luck.

javert 13y ago
People do get paid to do the kind of work he is talking about, you know. As a sidenote, I found your sporadic quoting of his post to be annoying and completely worthless.
mathattack 13y ago
I agree with your thoughts on this being Naive. As an undergrad I wrote off the idea of pursuing a Phd (my initial intent) because I saw how the senior professor I assisted spent his time. A lot more mental energy went to grant writing than teaching or research. The other thing is it will be very hard to do this at 30 with kids. Best of luck with this!
- 13y ago

javert 13y ago

I feel like he's leaving out something quite important, which is what he plans to do once he has his PhD. Professor (research or teaching?) or industry (big business or startups?)?

tensor 13y ago
This isn't actually very important. At least if you are in STEM. The point of the PhD is to learn. That's valuable to all career paths.
- freyr 13y ago
  Wrong, it's extremely important. You're devoting the next 5+ years of your life to a single task. You're forgoing your programmer salary for the next 5+ years, which could easily add up to $300k - $500k in opportunity cost. Your forcing your wife and kids to come along for the ride. You're going to end up a world expert in a tiny niche that, quite possibly, nobody outside of academia cares about. You should have a pretty good idea where you want this all to lead. There are practical reasons for having a goal in mind: * If you want to land an academic job, you should be planning for that from day one. Academic positions are extremely competitive, and you need to make yourself an extremely competitive candidate. That means you must present and publish your work aggressively often, networking extensively, and choose a popular topic of research that will garner you many citations, etc. * You have to make many important decisions right from the start of grad school (who to choose as an advisor, what topic to research, etc.). Choosing poorly will have ramifications for many years to come. Having relevant criteria (such as some long-term goal) can help you with these decisions. * It's not entirely unusual for candidates to languish for 7+ years in their program, often due to lack of direction or because they expected their advisor to motivate them and keep them on track. You need to motivate yourself. Having some direction from the start can help with this motivation, and also help you from getting swallowed up by all the time-sinks that will eat away at your productivity.
  - tensor 13y ago
    This sounds a lot like you are telling us what you value in life. There are no rules in life and it's not a requirement to have your whole life planned out at every moment in time. Most people don't, including highly successful people. That's ok. What's important is taking advantage of opportunity when it is presented. If a goal of yours is to learn, then a PhD is a great opportunity for this. The value of the PhD is not even gaining expert knowledge in a small area. It's learning how to learn. It's learning how to focus so hard on one thing so as to surpass or build on what the best of those who've come before you have done. It teaches you do deal with the fear of not knowing and having nobody to tell you the answer. On the other hand, even if you end up coming to be concerned about money, it's still not a big deal. Sure, you don't go into a PhD for money. But wether you go into industry or succeed in academia afterwards, you won't be wanting for money. Hell, you can even leave part way through and get a well paying job! Besides, your counterparts who ran the corporate treadmill will only be incrementally richer than you anyways. If you really want to be rich, you need to take on big risks such as starting a company or the like. Talking about putting your wife and kids in a tough spot! That said, I hope you put something in life above money. Edit: Regarding your edits, those are concerns that you do need to consider. Though it's really not the end of the world if you don't. Simply always trying hard goes a long way to doing alright in most scenarios and there are always great fallback options.

011011100 13y ago

"Because it's my life and I believe it's worthwhile to me." I don't understand why people bother to defend personal choices, like education, as if they're in some sort of formal argument. This says more about culture and your own insecurity.

6d0debc071 13y ago
Maybe they value others opinions/encouragement/feedback. A degree of insecurity isn't necessarily a bad thing, it can stop you making mistakes. I wish I'd taken some of the questions of my friends at school Why do you want to get a degree anyway? more seriously years ago.

evincarofautumn 13y ago

Your interests align with mine. I have considered academia, but for now it suffices to work on language research projects in spare time. I did get a job in compilers and build tools last year because of my language interests, so it’s certainly not impossible. Compilers experts are not in high demand, but when they are needed they can go for a pretty penny due to short supply. > I’m not as interested in the implementation as I am in conceiving a solution and understanding its value. I'm sure that will sound like laziness to some… Not at all. People like you are the reason that people like me have so many great papers to work from. The world needs people on both sides of that divide.

geebee 13y ago

I truly wish you the best of luck, and for an excellent outcome. One thing - you just can't say "why I'm getting a PhD", even from an elite school, the way you'd say "why I'm getting a law, medical, or business degree". Even if you've been admitted to an elite program, you can really only say "why I'm rolling the dice on the possibility of getting a PhD". At elite programs, there is essentially no involuntary attrition in JD, MD, or MBA degrees. Yale law school has no 1L attrition. Columbia's JD 1L attrition is 0.3%. Attrition rates at elite med school is typically well below 1%. http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2008/04/law-school-ra-1.html http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2008/04/law-school-r... (I'll stop with the googling of links here...) Attrition rates for engineering PhD students appear to be about 33%. This (to me, atrocious number) is way better than science or humanities. http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2007/12/07/doctoral http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2007/12/07/doctoral Unlike JD, MD, MBA programs, I don't believe that the numbers are better at elite schools. http://www-inst.eecs.berkeley.edu/~wicse/index.php/papers/lindareport2.pdf http://www-inst.eecs.berkeley.edu/~wicse/index.php/papers/li... I dunno, maybe Berkeley is a risky program, it is a notoriously harsh school. In spite of all I've said, I'm always hesitant to give anyone advice. There are still remarkable careers to be had in academics. Good luck.

aaronbrethorst 13y ago
> Attrition rates for engineering PhD students appear to be about 33%. This (to me, atrocious number) is way better than science or humanities. Perhaps this is because an engineering Ph.D. student is far better positioned to get a high-paying job than their 1L or med school counterparts. The engineering candidate doesn't need to be there to get a job.
- geebee 13y ago
  There are all kinds of reasons. I'd certainly agree that what you pointed out is one of them. That said... then why is the engineering PhD attrition rate lower than in science, which is in turn lower than humanities?
- freyr 13y ago
  Yes, and the med school student will earn substantially more than the PhD student (or the PhD degree holder) after completing med school. So there is significant financial incentive to finish the degree (which has likely put the med school student deep into loan debt already).

kyro 13y ago

You're lucky to have a wife that supportive. I'm about to do something considered equally as risky, and the support of my SO helps in extinguishing a lot of the fear and anxiety. I have friends who are not as lucky with SO's demanding they continue down one career path or another. Best of luck to you.

tankbot 13y ago

As someone who assigns little value to academia I would like to say, without irony or pretense: Best of luck to you, sir! I hope it's fulfilling, but never to the point of satisfaction! :)

jamesjguthrie 13y ago

Good on you John, best of luck. I'm going to be applying for engineering PhD programmes by this coming January and I'm in a similar position to you: 28, wife, 2 year old kid, trying for another, etc.

jofer 13y ago

For whatever it's worth, as someone who just finished, you're doing a PhD for all of the right reasons. You do it because you want to. Because you like getting to delve into a wide array of things. Because you want to focus more on interesting problems than interesting solutions. (Obviously, those two aren't mutually exclusive.) If you're doing it with a career focus, it's not worth it. A PhD can be a hindrance in the corporate world, and jobs in academia are difficult to get. Do it because you want a chance to do what you find most interesting for 5-8 years. (CS is probably shorter... In the geosciences, a M.S. is 2-3 years, and a PhD is an additional 4-6. Typically, you switch institutions between an MS and PhD, as well.) Also, from what I've seen, people who come back to graduate work after working for awhile are generally more successful than folks straight out of undergrad. On the other hand, a PhD can close more doors than it opens in the corporate world, at least in my limited experience. For reasons I don't understand, most people view a PhD as meaning specialization. You'll be seen as "too specialized", regardless of your actual experience and skillset. At least for me, the opposite is true. My graduate work required me to be a generalist. Everyone I know of came out of undergrad much more specialized and became more of a generalist over time.

jseliger 13y ago
For whatever it's worth, as someone who just finished, you're doing a PhD for all of the right reasons. That's true. I think it's telling, however, that the writer doesn't mention getting an academic job, or tenure. I hope his PhD works out for him and his family, who are implicitly along for the ride. I also hope that, in three to four years, the OP writes an essay about what he thinks after he's gone through the academic grinder. For an alternate perspective on academia, see Philip Greenspun's "Women in Science" (http://philip.greenspun.com/careers/women-in-science http://philip.greenspun.com/careers/women-in-science).

kirk21 13y ago

My main challenge is to keep focus and motivation. My weekend project to keep me motivated during my PhD: http://bohrresearch.com http://bohrresearch.com

ssw1n 13y ago

Here is a different perspective, all be it in a cynical tone: http://crypto.junod.info/2013/09/09/an-aspiring-scientists-frustration-with-modern-day-academia-a-resignation/ http://crypto.junod.info/2013/09/09/an-aspiring-scientists-f... And here's another, with much more objective tone: http://www.pgbovine.net/PhD-memoir.htm http://www.pgbovine.net/PhD-memoir.htm My take on the subject matter is that: - When getting into the PhD. track, one should be aware of what he/she is getting into, and be prepared for the resulting lifestyle. - One should have an extraordinary drive (even to the point of personal obsession) to search for answers towards the unsolved problems in his/her field of study despite knowing the consequences that will be imposed onto his/her life by this intellectual journey. - One should find a PI whose personality clicks with his/hers, and whose research he/she is motivated to work on. It is pretty rare to match these two parameters perfectly, but one can weigh trade-offs, and work with the best available while still maintaining his/her aspirations. - One should realize that, regardless of popular belief, academia is business with its own business model: understanding the intricate business logic behind the model will facilitate one greatly in his/her quest. - One should realize that like every human society, academia has its own fair share of personalities and egos, and intrapersonal skills matter, a lot.

pgbovine 13y ago
wow that's a great summary of key points :) and thanks for mentioning that my memoir has a more objective tone than the other student's rant. i tried hard to present both the good and bad sides of academia, as viewed through the lens of a naive Ph.D. student. ah good times.

hugofirth 13y ago

The 23rd marks the "...first day of instruction in the first academic year of my PhD in Computer Science..." at Newcastle University. Good luck :)

marincounty 13y ago

I never wanted to leave college. Why leave--it's fun and the social benefits were unbelievable. Although, I think a college degree is overrated. I truly believe a determined individual can use the Internet as a substitute for a college degree, especially Programmers. When I went to school I thought General Education requirements were a waste of time, but as I aged, I'm glad I was exposed to philophy, and psychology courses. I'm amazed how many people go through life not knowing what the Placebo Effect is.(yes--Strunk would be mad, but tired.).

polaris9000 13y ago

Looking back, I regret not having pursued a degree in Physics or Mathematics. I took the "easy way out" and pursued a liberal arts degree just to be done with college and move on. In retrospect, it would have been great to have majored in something that, perhaps, may have been more difficult but more rewarding in the long run. Therefore I suggest that, if you have the opportunity to do so, pursue your PhD. You never know when older age will sneak up on you and you will no longer have enough time to do so :)

jrobbins 13y ago

John, it's great that you want to learn more about those topics. But, don't misunderstand. Earning a PhD is like 10% learning about the topic, and 90% learning the process of research and the business of research. Based on your blog post, it's going to take a while until that other 90% really hits you. Reading papers is easy compared to writing them. Also, PhD studies and the academic life at a research institution are emotionally stressful and extremely time consuming. You have to consider the negative impact of that on your family, regardless of how supportive they are.

zmmmmm 13y ago

I see a lot of people saying getting a PhD limits your options for employment afterwards and you should only do it if you want an academic career. I'm currently completing a PhD, and that was one of my primary concerns prior to starting. However I've eventually become more at ease with it. For one, I see a new appreciation for PhD level knowledge thanks to Google et. al, who have repopularised the value of having a PhD with their hiring practises. The advent of machine learning has made higher level CS knowledge more valuable again where for a while it was even actively spurned by much of the software industry. At the same time the basic bachelor CS degree is becoming commoditized and its value is decreasing. Partly because of outsourcing, partly because of MOOCs, and partly because it is becoming evident to employers that people without college / university training can be as effective as people with that training. All up, I'm a lot less worried about this point than I was before I started.

tokenizer 13y ago
Good for you. I'm usually apart of the libertarian crowd of qualifications: You prove you're capable with example, not credential. This is due to my view of the cost of college, and my success in IT without higher learning credentials. That said, I would definitely give advice to young adults now that if they are going to college, they should either go for their masters/doctorate, or an advanced bachelors like nursing, law, or engineering. Anything else is just a waste of money. Everything you said about bachelor degrees is spot on.
btown 13y ago
I had a similar decision to go through, and I'm in a PhD program in machine learning now myself! PhD's might not be the trendiest thing in the startup world, but they're not a detriment at all from what I've heard and seen. Interned at a well-funded startup with 40 employees at the time, and we interns were literally the only tech people there without advanced degrees; many were ex-Googlers and the like. Similarly, at Microsoft I heard from many that as long as you can demonstrate that you haven't lost your touch for coding (do implementation + theory!), you're at no disadvantage relative to where you were before the PhD, and quite possibly at an advantage if you want to do more research-oriented things. Me, I may end up catching the academia bug while I'm here, but I'm not worried about losing my "in" in industry. ...now back to that problem set...

ryanSrich 13y ago

I've always been passionate about education and hope to one day be in a place where I can get my PHD. Unfortunately I've opted to relocate and travel for a couple years which has showed me that online PHDs virtually don't exist. Has anyone done an online PHD in CS or something similar?

dsugarman 13y ago

As someone who was recently persuing a PhD, I would say anyone getting one is making a huge bet on the future of traditonal higher education institutes. In general, I am scared for the future of pure science

stephnexus 13y ago
I think the right time to be scared for the future of pure science was in the 1970s. Pure R&D institutions started dropping like flies after that, and we almost lost our innovation edge. I think the Internet brought us back from the brink -- except now it's not large institutions sponsoring R&D, but rather small companies and individuals. Pure science suffers in comparison to small tech (like apps and web stuff) because it's expensive, but I think that could change as we perfect crowd-funding mechanisms and as enough people accumulate enough resources to start privately funding pure science research. I don't think traditional higher ed institutes are safe by any means -- but a PhD itself is still a worthwhile use of time, whether used for its intended purpose or as a pivot.

educating 13y ago

> Descriptive declarative languages that aren't Sounds like Ruby! I mean that in a good way.

stephnexus 13y ago

The problem with a PhD is that it requires a laser focus on a narrowly defined topic. I'm much more interested in the connections between different areas. Thus, no PhD so far. I also wouldn't want to put myself entirely under one advisor's control to the degree that PhD programs typically require. I do think it would be an interesting way to re-structure my time, though.