9 ms·

London student reported to police: “Enchanted by anarchism and individualism”

251 points by null_ptr 13y ago

auctiontheory 13y ago
I somehow doubt that sabotaging the kid's education would reduce his anarchism and individualism.
- hga 13y ago
  But as long as that sabotage severely curtails his future, do they care?
  - guard-of-terra 13y ago
    Would it? 2013 says it's pretty hard to curtail one's future. No single entity controls it, there's no gatekeeper. They just show their own misery.
    - hga 13y ago
      The headteacher appears to think he can keep this guy from getting a college education, and he might well be right. True, there's no single gatekeeper, but there are a zillion little ones, and too large a fraction of them will stop someone without a degree, or one without a higher tier one ... and probably more in the Great Recession when there are so many credentialed unemployed.
      - guard-of-terra 13y ago
        If this guy wants to be a politician, which he seems to do, then passing thru hostile gatekeepers is his job description. Anyway, even if he would not it's not as easy either. Imagine someone cold-calling univercities telling he's a headteached (whatever this means) and persuading not accept the student N. He'll be seen as a lunatic, wouldn't he?
        hga 13y ago
        That's the thing we don't know. His attitudes aren't necessarily "lunatic" based on post-WWII U.K. history, and we don't know how much this sort of thing is still an "old boys club" in which he got a hearing from people who weren't entirely cold called. Conflict with a teacher cost Richard Gabriel of "Worse is Better" fame entrance to Harvard or MIT and a lot of subsiquent grief: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_P._Gabriel http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_P._Gabriel
        guard-of-terra 13y ago
        If this would be true I would not be happy with the situation in the UK. But, if he's really going to be a politician, it would be very good for him to face this thing he's supposed to fight later on.
    - misuba 13y ago
      > 2013 says it's pretty hard to _further_ curtail one's future FTFY
- thotpoizn 13y ago
  Well, the anarchy could have been forgiven, but individualism? Put him up against the wall! I've looked at the blog in question ( http://hampsteadtrash.blogspot.co.uk/ http://hampsteadtrash.blogspot.co.uk/ ) - and it's obvious that the real problem was about his being critical of the school administration. His petty thug of a headteacher seems perfectly deserving of every bit of the attention he is about to receive.
  - auctiontheory 13y ago
    Hey! Teacher! Leave them kids alone.
    - eCa 13y ago
      Or, in the words of The Clash[1]: You have the right to free speech As long as you're not Dumb enough to actually try it Considering how the school has reacted to his writings, I'd say that he is probably right. [1] http://www.metrolyrics.com/know-your-rights-lyrics-the-clash.html http://www.metrolyrics.com/know-your-rights-lyrics-the-clash...
    - mhurron 13y ago
      I always said he was up to no good.
- scarmig 13y ago
  Is kicking someone out of a building that bears more than a passing resemblance to a prison really sabotaging their education?
  - sillysaurus2 13y ago
    ... Yes. As a self-taught programmer, I believe university is important. It gives quite a lot of advantages (mostly social ones, which are the most important). And undergrad universities select primarily based on school performance, so kicking him out definitely would've sabotaged his higher education. To piggyback on this comment in hopes of finding some assistance: I've been trying to figure out some long-term strategy of how to get into a top-tier university. I have the ACT scores for it, but I dropped out of highschool to go work in software. The decade of dev experience is certainly nice, and I've studied core CS theory on my own (xv6 and paxos for example), but I'd really like to attend a top uni in order to do graphics research. I wonder if it's even possible for a 25 year old highschool dropout to achieve this? I was thinking I could do well for a couple years at some local university, then apply to transfer to Penn, Stanford, etc. I've heard transfer students are more likely to be accepted. But I wonder what else I could do to increase my chances.
    - cinquemb 13y ago
      As someone who dropped out from Brown (and transferred credits from State universities I attended while in HS) and been engaging with newer educational things like project breaker[0], there are plenty of social advantages out there with "non-traditional" organizations that give more freedom and open just as many doors… Though yes, if you are trying do research, uni might be good, but there's plenty of university politics/culture involved that might make you want to drop out again (esp with research and such), despite it all… Besides, who's to say you can't do research outside of uni? [0] http://www.projectbreaker.org/ http://www.projectbreaker.org/
      - sillysaurus2 13y ago
        Well, I've been doing my best to research on my own, but at this point I need access to a high quality spectrophotometer in order to perform measurements of various materials' absorption spectrums under various lighting conditions. They can run ~$5k, so uni seems like my best bet. I figured I couldn't really just show up and ask to borrow their spectrophotometer... they'd probably want me to have a degree or some kind of credentials before trusting me at all. Project Breaker looks quite interesting. Thanks for letting me know!
- protomyth 13y ago
  Seems like it would just confirm his beliefs.
Kurtz79 13y ago
Check the comments on the article as well, for a few insane ramblings by the templeos maker...
- solistice 13y ago
  Wait, so it's conspiracy theory/religion applied to x86 assembler? I'm going to print it out for future reference.
rhizome 13y ago
The headteacher, in addition to reporting Zaloom to the police, phoned Glasgow University, where the student had applied to study, in an attempt to dissuade them from accepting him. Not the best way to counter charges of endemic corrpution in society, I must say. In the US, this kind of interference would pose a great deal of trouble for the ambitious functionary.
- mezmor 13y ago
  The UK has pretty strict libel laws. I wouldn't be surprised if approaching Glasgow U falls under that category.
  - switch007 13y ago
    The costs involved with libel cases are nothing short of eye-watering [1]. Strict libel laws are pointless if you can't afford to bring a case. (Though, there are "no-win, no-fee" agreements available) [1] http://pcmlp.socleg.ox.ac.uk/research/project/comparative-study-costs-defamation-proceedings-across-europe http://pcmlp.socleg.ox.ac.uk/research/project/comparative-st...
  - AimHere 13y ago
    Defaming a third party by telephone would more likely be slander than libel, but it's certainly not clear that what went on here would be defamation at all. A defamatory statement must be a false factual allegation. As long as what the headmaster claimed was true, he should be safe from libel or slander lawsuits - saying "I don't like this guy's politics and you shouldn't take him on as a student." is a fair expression of opinion, however silly that opinion is, and despite the rather insidious attempt to harm someone's career over a personal/political disagreement. Mind you, I'd guess that in these sorts of circumstances, Glasgow University would likely thank the headmaster for his concern and file the note of this communication in the waste paper basket, where it belongs. Universities are no stranger to having to fend off third parties - parents, police, stalkers and whathaveyou - attempting to meddle in the affairs of their students; if their admin staff are halfways competent, they already have 50 tactful ways of telling outside interferers to fuck off.
omarrr 13y ago
Doesn't sound like the kind of teacher I'd like in my university Asked what had first inclined him to contact the police, Mr. Szemalikowski said “the fact that Kinnan has mentioned the ideologies of anarchism and individualism on this blog.” Digging himself even deeper, the headteacher added, “I must do something. In the last year he has become more and more enchanted by antiestablishment ways of thinking and has even said that there is an inherent risk that every government is corrupt.”
- gngeal 13y ago
  and has even said that there is an inherent risk that every government is corrupt Well, here's one student that learned the right lesson in his Government class. :)
- bolder88 13y ago
  Read the blog. Doesn't seem like the kind of kid I'd like in my university...
  - unimpressive 13y ago
    Having recently had a "Fuck all of you" reaction to public high school, what I read was a kid ranting about apathetic students and apathetic instructors. He's probably frustrated by the people he sees on a daily basis and it comes out on the blog as him being a jerk. His writing could use some work too, kind of cheesy.
  - fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
    What's the kind that you would like?
- stretchwithme 13y ago
  Isn't mentioning that someone mentioned something also mentioning it?
DickingAround 13y ago
What did the police say? Did the teacher believe that the UK has thought-crime laws about uncommon political beliefs? Do they?
- petercooper 13y ago
  Not so much laws but there's certainly a lot more stigma to holding unpopular opinions (or even freely expressing 'distasteful' but popular opinions, cf. responses to many UKIP supporters) in the UK compared to the USA - nowhere on the scale as in Russia or Eastern Europe though.
  - honzzz 13y ago
    Eastern Europe? Could you please elaborate or provide some example to illustrate what exactly you mean? I am from Eastern Europe (Czech Rep.) and I used to live in UK. Generally I would say that current Eastern Europe is way more open/tolerant/apathetic to 'unpopular opinions' than UK.
    - petercooper 13y ago
      I don't have an interest in filling a post with links to articles about the freedom of speech issues or homophobia in Belarus, the Ukraine, Lithuania, Romania, or what not, but they are easily found. For starters, though, Belarus, the Ukraine, Macedonia, Bulgaria, Greece and Albania aren't even in the top 80 countries for press freedom: http://en.rsf.org/press-freedom-index-2013,1054.html http://en.rsf.org/press-freedom-index-2013,1054.html However, I had to hit Wikipedia as I'd never considered the Czech Republic to culturally be "Eastern Europe" but it turns out it often is. I consider the Czech Republic as progressive as any Western European nation and the statistics seem to support that (for example, Czechs are more in support of gay marriage than even the Brits). I've been to the Czech Republic before and was pleasantly surprised at how awesome it was. So, to clarify, I did not have mean "Eastern Europe" formally but countries on the geographically eastern fringes of Europe.
      - weland 13y ago
protomyth 13y ago
Two things came to mind when I read this: 1) It doesn't often happen, but having the establishment individual confirm the blog's POV through word and deed is refreshing. 2) If you are from the University and read what this fool said to the newspapers / police, then you should be suspect of any individual whom he gave a recommendation.
omarrr 13y ago
This is the kind of behavior current political systems are encouraging to the members of our society. Instead of teachers reaching out to students to create bonds and personal connections, we have a system that promotes unjustified surveillance, profiling and reporting.
motters 13y ago
You can't just have individualists roaming freely around doing whatever the heck they like. Where would it end?
- solistice 13y ago
  Hmmmm...no ruling elites?
  - calibraxis 13y ago
    If individualists are incapable of building functioning nonhierarchical organizations, they'll be at the mercy of those good at violence, and ruled. This is why much of the anarchist tradition is about collective action, to support individual freedoms. They frequently reject the collective vs. individual dichotomy as absurd. (Hopefully this isn't pedantic or nitpicky, just this tends to be a common misconception.)
    - dnautics 13y ago
      it's not pedantic in the context of the original article, where the headmaster was clearly too daft to know the difference.
alextingle 13y ago
Prime Minister by 30?
- alan_cx 13y ago
  In the UK? Yeah, that would be the teacher who reported him then. I'm sure the current Home Sec would very much approve of a student being outed for saying something the establishment disagrees with. If the teach u-turns some how, then yes, PM.
noonespecial 13y ago
You almost feel sorry for the teacher in this case. Sure, he's about to get the just desserts of a repugnant action like this, but its kind of like a dog digging up a nest full of yellow jackets. He "deserves" the stings but he's not going to understand why he is suddenly being stung. It boggles our tech-savvy minds that someone could be this out of touch and still have a position of any authority whatsoever, but there it is. I also hope the best for the student, but I can't help feeling that this will be nothing but a minor setback for him as much as it seems to potentially suck now.
- mindslight 13y ago
  I think I'm pretty good at seeing others' perspectives, but my empathy for the dog evaporates when he's part of a pack that's been terrorizing me for years. The yellow jackets won't alter the behavior of the pack, but I might as well enjoy what tiny justice I can get.
- harrytuttle 13y ago
  Being out of touch disqualifies you from any job pretty quickly. Always be on the ball, not with your head up your arse like this elitist buffoon.
  - brymaster 13y ago
    The Peter Principle and Dunning–Kruger effect would disagree.
    - harrytuttle 13y ago
      Not really. Modern communication and media makes it easier to single out an individual from the flock and take them down.
      - brymaster 13y ago
        No, that really has nothing to do with it. Organizations are still rampant with the following: - yes-men, sycophants - cronyism/nepotism/favoritism - cutthroat, bad culture - etc
unimpressive 13y ago
Here is the post that seems to have triggered the response: http://hampsteadtrash.blogspot.co.uk/2013/07/sludge-obituary.html http://hampsteadtrash.blogspot.co.uk/2013/07/sludge-obituary...
- vixen99 13y ago
  Nothing untoward in this apart from the pointless, juvenile and lazy repetition of the fk word.
bolder88 13y ago
pretty douchey to list the schools phone number at the bottom, just so idiot internet hate mobs can phone and abuse the school secretary.
- rickjames28 13y ago
  "internet hate mobs" are the people that oppose this pretty douchey teacher?
  - bolder88 13y ago
    Did you read the blog in question? Are you in possession of the full facts of the case? Do you know those involved? Or have you formed your opinions based on some gossippy trash reporting. There is almost always far more to stories like this than the reporting has us to believe. That's because the reporting is pushing an agenda. Which internet hate mobs etc absolutely love.
    - rickjames28 13y ago
      So you dispute the story and the reporting is "pushing an agenda"? Why do I have the feeling that you don't think that the "teacher" was wrong in what he did?
      - bolder88 13y ago
        Having read some of the blog, it certainly looks like he's a kid with issues. So I'm not surprised the teacher called the university to warn them. Not sure he really should have called the police, but it's up to him isn't it. But as I said, there's very likely far more to the story than just a blog. If for example the story was "teacher calls police after student damages property / makes threats / brings knife to school / etc etc, and also shows police his weird ranty blog", then it wouldn't fit with the 'internet hate mob' agenda.
teawithcarl 13y ago
The Hampton Trash (blog) http://hampsteadtrash.blogspot.co.uk/ http://hampsteadtrash.blogspot.co.uk/
SiVal 13y ago
This sort of thing is alive and well in US schools, too. The official policy of the Seattle Public School system is to stamp out racism in all its forms, and notice how many forms there are. (Note in particular the Cultural Racism section that includes, "emphasizing individualism as opposed to a more collective ideology" as a form of racism that, by official policy, is to be stamped out by the government education system): http://web.archive.org/web/20060522101405/http://www.seattleschools.org/area/equityandrace/definitionofrace.xml http://web.archive.org/web/20060522101405/http://www.seattle...
- dmix 13y ago
  In Canada this week, my girlfriend is required to visit the dean of a [top Canadian law school] for calling a girl a "bitch" on Twitter. Backstory is interesting, because the girl had bullied her in person at school. GF never identified the girl on Twitter only saying "Some bitch blah blah at school today". But because she mentioned the school name, the dean found out and now wants to talk to her. There's apparently a policy against certain language at the schools which is enforced by the very highest people. Fortunately shes defending her right to freedom of expression (as any lawyer-in-training would) and refusing to delete the tweet. But the thought of students having to censor themselves because they are now a member of a school (which they paid $50k+ to join) is scary.
  - corresation 13y ago
    I don't think expecting basic good judgment of those in law school is 'scary'. Further it is worth mentioning that hateful speech is not protected in Canada, and while you could say that it was but a response, such a tweet is almost certainly in violation of several new anti-'cyber' bullying restrictions.
    - stfu 13y ago
      So in your world "Some bitch at school did x" falls under hateful speech/cyber-bullying? Well, I guess by now we have to prosecute half of the YouTube and Twitter population. After all all those "first" posters are most certainly making a highly discriminatory remark against all those coming "second".
Sagat 13y ago
I'm disgusted by the head teacher's nosy behavior. I also think the student is an insufferable person according to his blog posts [1]. He's one of those people who try to use loaded words like "anarchism" and "individualism" to justify annoying or selfish behavior. Kind of like Galt-wannabe libertarians who hide being the word "liberty" to give credence to social darwinism. [1] http://hampsteadtrash.blogspot.co.uk/2013/07/sludge-obituary.html http://hampsteadtrash.blogspot.co.uk/2013/07/sludge-obituary...
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
  - Sagat 13y ago
    What I mean by loaded is that they have a ton of different meanings and interpretations, many of whom are illegitimate. Isms of any kind are frequently misused to label people or things. "Anarchism" and "individualism" are just examples. "Fascism" is probably the most common: even Orwell noticed that it was used by everyone to mean anything. [1] In this case the kid thought that making blog posts with swear words that criticize his school constitutes "anarchism" and "individualism". It's like those ads that try to associate their crummy product with freedom or love: meaningless and artificial. [1] http://www.orwell.ru/library/articles/As_I_Please/english/efasc http://www.orwell.ru/library/articles/As_I_Please/english/ef... Edit: looks like they deleted their comment. Nevermind.
- Ensorceled 13y ago
  Yes, lots of high school students are insufferably pompous and selfish. They are just growing from children into young adults. A high school head teacher should be able to handle this. Also, as an adult, you should also be able to handle this without becoming annoyed and judgemental.
  - alan_cx 13y ago
    " lots of high school students are insufferably pompous and selfish" So are a lot of teachers and heads.
rickjames28 13y ago
This "headteacher" should be arrested and prosecuted.
- harrytuttle 13y ago
  For what? Libel is pretty much impossible to get heard unless the accuser is elite and has piles of cash. Yes he's an asshat but he just dug his own grave. The elite education recruitment chaps won't touch him with a 20 foot pole covered in shit now. This is his last job.
- u2328 13y ago
  Kettle, meet pot.
  - rickjames28 13y ago
    Wrong. I consider that action by the teacher a direct threat to the student's civil rights at the very least.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
muyuu 13y ago
Will he be accepted in Glasgow U?
- ronaldx 13y ago
  The offer made by Glasgow to the student is guaranteed, as long as the student meets the conditions of the offer: typically a grade-based offer. According to the original article, the student didn't meet the conditions of the offer. The university may now award a discretionary place... this decision could have been influenced by the principal, but is moderately unlikely anyway. The article notes that Zaloom will study at Portsmouth U instead. Good luck to him :) http://www.camdennewjournal.com/news/2013/sep/headteacher-reports-teen-blogger-who-criticised-school-police http://www.camdennewjournal.com/news/2013/sep/headteacher-re...
tjaerv 13y ago
Is this satire? It reads like satire. "I must do something. In the last year he has become more and more enchanted by antiestablishment ways of thinking and has even said that there is an inherent risk that every government is corrupt."
- btilly 13y ago
  It seems sincere to me. And also blithely unaware that the student has a point.
zokier 13y ago
I think the story has completely wrong focus. The problem is not the teachers actions (no matter how despicable), but the effects of those actions. I mean if a teacher is able to "ruin" someones life by making couple of phonecalls, then therein lies the problem. In a ideal society the teacher would be free to voice his concerns, and if those concerns were baseless (as seems to be the case here) then the voicing should have no effect on the pupils life. Of course there wasn't really any concrete effects mentioned in the story that had already happened, so hopefully this was just a sensationalist story and the uni and police will ignore the teacher. In fact the story heavily smells like an attempt to crucify the teacher while no damage/harm was actually done to the pupil.
zimbatm 13y ago
Yet another attack on an anti-authoritarian person. The most compelling example that our society doesn't accept people with this personality treat is the psychiatrists who treat them as if they had a mental disorder. http://www.honeycolony.com/article/psychiatrys-oppression-of-young-anarchists-and-the-underground-resistance/ http://www.honeycolony.com/article/psychiatrys-oppression-of...
btilly 13y ago
Here is the text of an email that I sent the school. ----- The primary duty that a school has is to turn out informed citizens who will try to maintain democracy. Despite your best efforts, you are apparently on the path to success with Kinnan Zaloom. Unfortunately your headmaster has failed to learn the critical lesson that any organization populated by people will have failure modes, and a common failure mode is that those in authority will seek to use their authority inappropriately, and will also seek to assert more authority than they should have. This has been known for thousands of years, with famous examples including ancient Athens, the Roman Republic, and a plethora of dictatorships around the world today. I am being generous in saying that your headmaster has failed to learn this lesson. In fact he seems to have learned it, but sees the path to petty dictatorship as something to emulate, not to fear. However one should never ascribe to malice and all that, so I will make the generous assumption that his actions came through incompetence. But even making the generous assumption, it is clear that your headmaster is not the kind of person who should be put in a position where he can try to harm the future of children whose only crime is to think more clearly than he does. We need children to learn that authority is a necessary evil in a democratic society. Which lesson can best be learned in an environment where authority is exercised wisely enough that the "necessary" part of it becomes evident. For the good of the children forced to suffer through your school, I sincerely hope that this fact is taken to heart and appropriate measures are taken to ensure that authority rests in more competent people going forward.
- mcantelon 13y ago
  Nicely done. The headmaster's mentality is in direct conflict with the Enlightenment principles that the West was built on.
kyllo 13y ago
This reads like a parody. "has even said that there is an inherent risk that every government is corrupt" Corruption in the government? Gasp! How dare you?!
scotty79 13y ago
> In the last year he has become more and more enchanted by antiestablishment ways of thinking and has even said that there is an inherent risk that every government is corrupt. If not for that line I'd say that techer just wanted to say that the student is vocal, selfish jackass and failed to invoke proper euphemisms. But this line shows teachers ignorance. I thought that risk of governemnt being corrupt is something so obvious that it's taught on history lessons in primaryschool. Or maybe I am wrong and it's not established that all government can become corrupt? And if there are some uncorruptible goverment forms, then why we don't use them? Or there is some non-constructive proof known that shows that some goverments are not at all prone to corruption but we have no idea how they look like? Goverment by definition decides about the stuff it does not own. And if you decide about stuff you don't own you can trade doing some harm to that stuff for improving your own status. And that's coruption.
teddyh 13y ago
— (President) Youth, with its enthusiasms, which rebels against any accepted norm because it must, and we sympathize. It may wear flowers in its hair and bells on its toes, but when the common good is threatened, when the functioning of society is endangered, such revolts must cease! They are non-productive, and must be abolished! [...] — (President) Guilty! Read the charge! — (Delegate) The prisoner has been charged with the most serious breach of social etiquette: Cultural defiance of the elementary laws which sustain our community. Questioning the decisions of those we voted to govern us. Unhealthy aspects of speech and dress, not in accordance with general practice. And the refusal to observe, wear, or respond to his number! (Quotes from “The Prisoner”, Episode 17, “Fall Out”, 1967)

251 points by null_ptr 13y ago

auctiontheory 13y ago

I somehow doubt that sabotaging the kid's education would reduce his anarchism and individualism.

hga 13y ago
But as long as that sabotage severely curtails his future, do they care?
- guard-of-terra 13y ago
  Would it? 2013 says it's pretty hard to curtail one's future. No single entity controls it, there's no gatekeeper. They just show their own misery.
  - hga 13y ago
    The headteacher appears to think he can keep this guy from getting a college education, and he might well be right. True, there's no single gatekeeper, but there are a zillion little ones, and too large a fraction of them will stop someone without a degree, or one without a higher tier one ... and probably more in the Great Recession when there are so many credentialed unemployed.
    - guard-of-terra 13y ago
      If this guy wants to be a politician, which he seems to do, then passing thru hostile gatekeepers is his job description. Anyway, even if he would not it's not as easy either. Imagine someone cold-calling univercities telling he's a headteached (whatever this means) and persuading not accept the student N. He'll be seen as a lunatic, wouldn't he?
      - hga 13y ago
        That's the thing we don't know. His attitudes aren't necessarily "lunatic" based on post-WWII U.K. history, and we don't know how much this sort of thing is still an "old boys club" in which he got a hearing from people who weren't entirely cold called. Conflict with a teacher cost Richard Gabriel of "Worse is Better" fame entrance to Harvard or MIT and a lot of subsiquent grief: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_P._Gabriel http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_P._Gabriel
        guard-of-terra 13y ago
        If this would be true I would not be happy with the situation in the UK. But, if he's really going to be a politician, it would be very good for him to face this thing he's supposed to fight later on.
  - misuba 13y ago
    > 2013 says it's pretty hard to _further_ curtail one's future FTFY
thotpoizn 13y ago
Well, the anarchy could have been forgiven, but individualism? Put him up against the wall! I've looked at the blog in question ( http://hampsteadtrash.blogspot.co.uk/ http://hampsteadtrash.blogspot.co.uk/ ) - and it's obvious that the real problem was about his being critical of the school administration. His petty thug of a headteacher seems perfectly deserving of every bit of the attention he is about to receive.
- auctiontheory 13y ago
  Hey! Teacher! Leave them kids alone.
  - eCa 13y ago
    Or, in the words of The Clash[1]: You have the right to free speech As long as you're not Dumb enough to actually try it Considering how the school has reacted to his writings, I'd say that he is probably right. [1] http://www.metrolyrics.com/know-your-rights-lyrics-the-clash.html http://www.metrolyrics.com/know-your-rights-lyrics-the-clash...
  - mhurron 13y ago
    I always said he was up to no good.
scarmig 13y ago
Is kicking someone out of a building that bears more than a passing resemblance to a prison really sabotaging their education?
- sillysaurus2 13y ago
  ... Yes. As a self-taught programmer, I believe university is important. It gives quite a lot of advantages (mostly social ones, which are the most important). And undergrad universities select primarily based on school performance, so kicking him out definitely would've sabotaged his higher education. To piggyback on this comment in hopes of finding some assistance: I've been trying to figure out some long-term strategy of how to get into a top-tier university. I have the ACT scores for it, but I dropped out of highschool to go work in software. The decade of dev experience is certainly nice, and I've studied core CS theory on my own (xv6 and paxos for example), but I'd really like to attend a top uni in order to do graphics research. I wonder if it's even possible for a 25 year old highschool dropout to achieve this? I was thinking I could do well for a couple years at some local university, then apply to transfer to Penn, Stanford, etc. I've heard transfer students are more likely to be accepted. But I wonder what else I could do to increase my chances.
  - cinquemb 13y ago
    As someone who dropped out from Brown (and transferred credits from State universities I attended while in HS) and been engaging with newer educational things like project breaker[0], there are plenty of social advantages out there with "non-traditional" organizations that give more freedom and open just as many doors… Though yes, if you are trying do research, uni might be good, but there's plenty of university politics/culture involved that might make you want to drop out again (esp with research and such), despite it all… Besides, who's to say you can't do research outside of uni? [0] http://www.projectbreaker.org/ http://www.projectbreaker.org/
    - sillysaurus2 13y ago
      Well, I've been doing my best to research on my own, but at this point I need access to a high quality spectrophotometer in order to perform measurements of various materials' absorption spectrums under various lighting conditions. They can run ~$5k, so uni seems like my best bet. I figured I couldn't really just show up and ask to borrow their spectrophotometer... they'd probably want me to have a degree or some kind of credentials before trusting me at all. Project Breaker looks quite interesting. Thanks for letting me know!
protomyth 13y ago
Seems like it would just confirm his beliefs.

Kurtz79 13y ago

Check the comments on the article as well, for a few insane ramblings by the templeos maker...

solistice 13y ago
Wait, so it's conspiracy theory/religion applied to x86 assembler? I'm going to print it out for future reference.

rhizome 13y ago

The headteacher, in addition to reporting Zaloom to the police, phoned Glasgow University, where the student had applied to study, in an attempt to dissuade them from accepting him. Not the best way to counter charges of endemic corrpution in society, I must say. In the US, this kind of interference would pose a great deal of trouble for the ambitious functionary.

mezmor 13y ago
The UK has pretty strict libel laws. I wouldn't be surprised if approaching Glasgow U falls under that category.
- switch007 13y ago
  The costs involved with libel cases are nothing short of eye-watering [1]. Strict libel laws are pointless if you can't afford to bring a case. (Though, there are "no-win, no-fee" agreements available) [1] http://pcmlp.socleg.ox.ac.uk/research/project/comparative-study-costs-defamation-proceedings-across-europe http://pcmlp.socleg.ox.ac.uk/research/project/comparative-st...
- AimHere 13y ago
  Defaming a third party by telephone would more likely be slander than libel, but it's certainly not clear that what went on here would be defamation at all. A defamatory statement must be a false factual allegation. As long as what the headmaster claimed was true, he should be safe from libel or slander lawsuits - saying "I don't like this guy's politics and you shouldn't take him on as a student." is a fair expression of opinion, however silly that opinion is, and despite the rather insidious attempt to harm someone's career over a personal/political disagreement. Mind you, I'd guess that in these sorts of circumstances, Glasgow University would likely thank the headmaster for his concern and file the note of this communication in the waste paper basket, where it belongs. Universities are no stranger to having to fend off third parties - parents, police, stalkers and whathaveyou - attempting to meddle in the affairs of their students; if their admin staff are halfways competent, they already have 50 tactful ways of telling outside interferers to fuck off.

omarrr 13y ago

Doesn't sound like the kind of teacher I'd like in my university Asked what had first inclined him to contact the police, Mr. Szemalikowski said “the fact that Kinnan has mentioned the ideologies of anarchism and individualism on this blog.” Digging himself even deeper, the headteacher added, “I must do something. In the last year he has become more and more enchanted by antiestablishment ways of thinking and has even said that there is an inherent risk that every government is corrupt.”

gngeal 13y ago
and has even said that there is an inherent risk that every government is corrupt Well, here's one student that learned the right lesson in his Government class. :)
bolder88 13y ago
Read the blog. Doesn't seem like the kind of kid I'd like in my university...
- unimpressive 13y ago
  Having recently had a "Fuck all of you" reaction to public high school, what I read was a kid ranting about apathetic students and apathetic instructors. He's probably frustrated by the people he sees on a daily basis and it comes out on the blog as him being a jerk. His writing could use some work too, kind of cheesy.
- fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
  What's the kind that you would like?
stretchwithme 13y ago
Isn't mentioning that someone mentioned something also mentioning it?

DickingAround 13y ago

What did the police say? Did the teacher believe that the UK has thought-crime laws about uncommon political beliefs? Do they?

petercooper 13y ago
Not so much laws but there's certainly a lot more stigma to holding unpopular opinions (or even freely expressing 'distasteful' but popular opinions, cf. responses to many UKIP supporters) in the UK compared to the USA - nowhere on the scale as in Russia or Eastern Europe though.
- honzzz 13y ago
  Eastern Europe? Could you please elaborate or provide some example to illustrate what exactly you mean? I am from Eastern Europe (Czech Rep.) and I used to live in UK. Generally I would say that current Eastern Europe is way more open/tolerant/apathetic to 'unpopular opinions' than UK.
  - petercooper 13y ago
    I don't have an interest in filling a post with links to articles about the freedom of speech issues or homophobia in Belarus, the Ukraine, Lithuania, Romania, or what not, but they are easily found. For starters, though, Belarus, the Ukraine, Macedonia, Bulgaria, Greece and Albania aren't even in the top 80 countries for press freedom: http://en.rsf.org/press-freedom-index-2013,1054.html http://en.rsf.org/press-freedom-index-2013,1054.html However, I had to hit Wikipedia as I'd never considered the Czech Republic to culturally be "Eastern Europe" but it turns out it often is. I consider the Czech Republic as progressive as any Western European nation and the statistics seem to support that (for example, Czechs are more in support of gay marriage than even the Brits). I've been to the Czech Republic before and was pleasantly surprised at how awesome it was. So, to clarify, I did not have mean "Eastern Europe" formally but countries on the geographically eastern fringes of Europe.
    - weland 13y ago

protomyth 13y ago

Two things came to mind when I read this: 1) It doesn't often happen, but having the establishment individual confirm the blog's POV through word and deed is refreshing. 2) If you are from the University and read what this fool said to the newspapers / police, then you should be suspect of any individual whom he gave a recommendation.

omarrr 13y ago

This is the kind of behavior current political systems are encouraging to the members of our society. Instead of teachers reaching out to students to create bonds and personal connections, we have a system that promotes unjustified surveillance, profiling and reporting.

motters 13y ago

You can't just have individualists roaming freely around doing whatever the heck they like. Where would it end?

solistice 13y ago
Hmmmm...no ruling elites?
- calibraxis 13y ago
  If individualists are incapable of building functioning nonhierarchical organizations, they'll be at the mercy of those good at violence, and ruled. This is why much of the anarchist tradition is about collective action, to support individual freedoms. They frequently reject the collective vs. individual dichotomy as absurd. (Hopefully this isn't pedantic or nitpicky, just this tends to be a common misconception.)
  - dnautics 13y ago
    it's not pedantic in the context of the original article, where the headmaster was clearly too daft to know the difference.

alextingle 13y ago

Prime Minister by 30?

alan_cx 13y ago
In the UK? Yeah, that would be the teacher who reported him then. I'm sure the current Home Sec would very much approve of a student being outed for saying something the establishment disagrees with. If the teach u-turns some how, then yes, PM.

noonespecial 13y ago

You almost feel sorry for the teacher in this case. Sure, he's about to get the just desserts of a repugnant action like this, but its kind of like a dog digging up a nest full of yellow jackets. He "deserves" the stings but he's not going to understand why he is suddenly being stung. It boggles our tech-savvy minds that someone could be this out of touch and still have a position of any authority whatsoever, but there it is. I also hope the best for the student, but I can't help feeling that this will be nothing but a minor setback for him as much as it seems to potentially suck now.

mindslight 13y ago
I think I'm pretty good at seeing others' perspectives, but my empathy for the dog evaporates when he's part of a pack that's been terrorizing me for years. The yellow jackets won't alter the behavior of the pack, but I might as well enjoy what tiny justice I can get.
harrytuttle 13y ago
Being out of touch disqualifies you from any job pretty quickly. Always be on the ball, not with your head up your arse like this elitist buffoon.
- brymaster 13y ago
  The Peter Principle and Dunning–Kruger effect would disagree.
  - harrytuttle 13y ago
    Not really. Modern communication and media makes it easier to single out an individual from the flock and take them down.
    - brymaster 13y ago
      No, that really has nothing to do with it. Organizations are still rampant with the following: - yes-men, sycophants - cronyism/nepotism/favoritism - cutthroat, bad culture - etc

unimpressive 13y ago

Here is the post that seems to have triggered the response: http://hampsteadtrash.blogspot.co.uk/2013/07/sludge-obituary.html http://hampsteadtrash.blogspot.co.uk/2013/07/sludge-obituary...

vixen99 13y ago
Nothing untoward in this apart from the pointless, juvenile and lazy repetition of the fk word.

bolder88 13y ago

pretty douchey to list the schools phone number at the bottom, just so idiot internet hate mobs can phone and abuse the school secretary.

rickjames28 13y ago
"internet hate mobs" are the people that oppose this pretty douchey teacher?
- bolder88 13y ago
  Did you read the blog in question? Are you in possession of the full facts of the case? Do you know those involved? Or have you formed your opinions based on some gossippy trash reporting. There is almost always far more to stories like this than the reporting has us to believe. That's because the reporting is pushing an agenda. Which internet hate mobs etc absolutely love.
  - rickjames28 13y ago
    So you dispute the story and the reporting is "pushing an agenda"? Why do I have the feeling that you don't think that the "teacher" was wrong in what he did?
    - bolder88 13y ago
      Having read some of the blog, it certainly looks like he's a kid with issues. So I'm not surprised the teacher called the university to warn them. Not sure he really should have called the police, but it's up to him isn't it. But as I said, there's very likely far more to the story than just a blog. If for example the story was "teacher calls police after student damages property / makes threats / brings knife to school / etc etc, and also shows police his weird ranty blog", then it wouldn't fit with the 'internet hate mob' agenda.

teawithcarl 13y ago

The Hampton Trash (blog) http://hampsteadtrash.blogspot.co.uk/ http://hampsteadtrash.blogspot.co.uk/

SiVal 13y ago

This sort of thing is alive and well in US schools, too. The official policy of the Seattle Public School system is to stamp out racism in all its forms, and notice how many forms there are. (Note in particular the Cultural Racism section that includes, "emphasizing individualism as opposed to a more collective ideology" as a form of racism that, by official policy, is to be stamped out by the government education system): http://web.archive.org/web/20060522101405/http://www.seattleschools.org/area/equityandrace/definitionofrace.xml http://web.archive.org/web/20060522101405/http://www.seattle...

dmix 13y ago
In Canada this week, my girlfriend is required to visit the dean of a [top Canadian law school] for calling a girl a "bitch" on Twitter. Backstory is interesting, because the girl had bullied her in person at school. GF never identified the girl on Twitter only saying "Some bitch blah blah at school today". But because she mentioned the school name, the dean found out and now wants to talk to her. There's apparently a policy against certain language at the schools which is enforced by the very highest people. Fortunately shes defending her right to freedom of expression (as any lawyer-in-training would) and refusing to delete the tweet. But the thought of students having to censor themselves because they are now a member of a school (which they paid $50k+ to join) is scary.
- corresation 13y ago
  I don't think expecting basic good judgment of those in law school is 'scary'. Further it is worth mentioning that hateful speech is not protected in Canada, and while you could say that it was but a response, such a tweet is almost certainly in violation of several new anti-'cyber' bullying restrictions.
  - stfu 13y ago
    So in your world "Some bitch at school did x" falls under hateful speech/cyber-bullying? Well, I guess by now we have to prosecute half of the YouTube and Twitter population. After all all those "first" posters are most certainly making a highly discriminatory remark against all those coming "second".

Sagat 13y ago

I'm disgusted by the head teacher's nosy behavior. I also think the student is an insufferable person according to his blog posts [1]. He's one of those people who try to use loaded words like "anarchism" and "individualism" to justify annoying or selfish behavior. Kind of like Galt-wannabe libertarians who hide being the word "liberty" to give credence to social darwinism. [1] http://hampsteadtrash.blogspot.co.uk/2013/07/sludge-obituary.html http://hampsteadtrash.blogspot.co.uk/2013/07/sludge-obituary...

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
- Sagat 13y ago
  What I mean by loaded is that they have a ton of different meanings and interpretations, many of whom are illegitimate. Isms of any kind are frequently misused to label people or things. "Anarchism" and "individualism" are just examples. "Fascism" is probably the most common: even Orwell noticed that it was used by everyone to mean anything. [1] In this case the kid thought that making blog posts with swear words that criticize his school constitutes "anarchism" and "individualism". It's like those ads that try to associate their crummy product with freedom or love: meaningless and artificial. [1] http://www.orwell.ru/library/articles/As_I_Please/english/efasc http://www.orwell.ru/library/articles/As_I_Please/english/ef... Edit: looks like they deleted their comment. Nevermind.
Ensorceled 13y ago
Yes, lots of high school students are insufferably pompous and selfish. They are just growing from children into young adults. A high school head teacher should be able to handle this. Also, as an adult, you should also be able to handle this without becoming annoyed and judgemental.
- alan_cx 13y ago
  " lots of high school students are insufferably pompous and selfish" So are a lot of teachers and heads.

rickjames28 13y ago

This "headteacher" should be arrested and prosecuted.

harrytuttle 13y ago
For what? Libel is pretty much impossible to get heard unless the accuser is elite and has piles of cash. Yes he's an asshat but he just dug his own grave. The elite education recruitment chaps won't touch him with a 20 foot pole covered in shit now. This is his last job.
u2328 13y ago
Kettle, meet pot.
- rickjames28 13y ago
  Wrong. I consider that action by the teacher a direct threat to the student's civil rights at the very least.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

muyuu 13y ago

Will he be accepted in Glasgow U?

ronaldx 13y ago
The offer made by Glasgow to the student is guaranteed, as long as the student meets the conditions of the offer: typically a grade-based offer. According to the original article, the student didn't meet the conditions of the offer. The university may now award a discretionary place... this decision could have been influenced by the principal, but is moderately unlikely anyway. The article notes that Zaloom will study at Portsmouth U instead. Good luck to him :) http://www.camdennewjournal.com/news/2013/sep/headteacher-reports-teen-blogger-who-criticised-school-police http://www.camdennewjournal.com/news/2013/sep/headteacher-re...

tjaerv 13y ago

Is this satire? It reads like satire. "I must do something. In the last year he has become more and more enchanted by antiestablishment ways of thinking and has even said that there is an inherent risk that every government is corrupt."

btilly 13y ago
It seems sincere to me. And also blithely unaware that the student has a point.

zokier 13y ago

I think the story has completely wrong focus. The problem is not the teachers actions (no matter how despicable), but the effects of those actions. I mean if a teacher is able to "ruin" someones life by making couple of phonecalls, then therein lies the problem. In a ideal society the teacher would be free to voice his concerns, and if those concerns were baseless (as seems to be the case here) then the voicing should have no effect on the pupils life. Of course there wasn't really any concrete effects mentioned in the story that had already happened, so hopefully this was just a sensationalist story and the uni and police will ignore the teacher. In fact the story heavily smells like an attempt to crucify the teacher while no damage/harm was actually done to the pupil.

zimbatm 13y ago

Yet another attack on an anti-authoritarian person. The most compelling example that our society doesn't accept people with this personality treat is the psychiatrists who treat them as if they had a mental disorder. http://www.honeycolony.com/article/psychiatrys-oppression-of-young-anarchists-and-the-underground-resistance/ http://www.honeycolony.com/article/psychiatrys-oppression-of...

btilly 13y ago

Here is the text of an email that I sent the school. ----- The primary duty that a school has is to turn out informed citizens who will try to maintain democracy. Despite your best efforts, you are apparently on the path to success with Kinnan Zaloom. Unfortunately your headmaster has failed to learn the critical lesson that any organization populated by people will have failure modes, and a common failure mode is that those in authority will seek to use their authority inappropriately, and will also seek to assert more authority than they should have. This has been known for thousands of years, with famous examples including ancient Athens, the Roman Republic, and a plethora of dictatorships around the world today. I am being generous in saying that your headmaster has failed to learn this lesson. In fact he seems to have learned it, but sees the path to petty dictatorship as something to emulate, not to fear. However one should never ascribe to malice and all that, so I will make the generous assumption that his actions came through incompetence. But even making the generous assumption, it is clear that your headmaster is not the kind of person who should be put in a position where he can try to harm the future of children whose only crime is to think more clearly than he does. We need children to learn that authority is a necessary evil in a democratic society. Which lesson can best be learned in an environment where authority is exercised wisely enough that the "necessary" part of it becomes evident. For the good of the children forced to suffer through your school, I sincerely hope that this fact is taken to heart and appropriate measures are taken to ensure that authority rests in more competent people going forward.

mcantelon 13y ago
Nicely done. The headmaster's mentality is in direct conflict with the Enlightenment principles that the West was built on.

kyllo 13y ago

This reads like a parody. "has even said that there is an inherent risk that every government is corrupt" Corruption in the government? Gasp! How dare you?!

scotty79 13y ago

> In the last year he has become more and more enchanted by antiestablishment ways of thinking and has even said that there is an inherent risk that every government is corrupt. If not for that line I'd say that techer just wanted to say that the student is vocal, selfish jackass and failed to invoke proper euphemisms. But this line shows teachers ignorance. I thought that risk of governemnt being corrupt is something so obvious that it's taught on history lessons in primaryschool. Or maybe I am wrong and it's not established that all government can become corrupt? And if there are some uncorruptible goverment forms, then why we don't use them? Or there is some non-constructive proof known that shows that some goverments are not at all prone to corruption but we have no idea how they look like? Goverment by definition decides about the stuff it does not own. And if you decide about stuff you don't own you can trade doing some harm to that stuff for improving your own status. And that's coruption.

teddyh 13y ago

— (President) Youth, with its enthusiasms, which rebels against any accepted norm because it must, and we sympathize. It may wear flowers in its hair and bells on its toes, but when the common good is threatened, when the functioning of society is endangered, such revolts must cease! They are non-productive, and must be abolished! [...] — (President) Guilty! Read the charge! — (Delegate) The prisoner has been charged with the most serious breach of social etiquette: Cultural defiance of the elementary laws which sustain our community. Questioning the decisions of those we voted to govern us. Unhealthy aspects of speech and dress, not in accordance with general practice. And the refusal to observe, wear, or respond to his number! (Quotes from “The Prisoner”, Episode 17, “Fall Out”, 1967)