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Google is defragging Android

452 points by abraham 13y ago

myko 13y ago
I think this is great for Android as a whole, users will be better served. It does cut into the openness of Android though. Unless Amazon bends to Google's way of doing things a little bit their platform will stay even further behind, for instance.
- Zigurd 13y ago
  Indeed it makes an increasingly important part of Android closed. It would have been better to make all of the parts of Android OS that run in a Dalvik instance updatable - or something like that. Unfortunately that part of Android is effectively held hostage by OEM modifications. It would be nice that if an OEM commits to limiting their modifications to, say, at worst, some privileged apps, that there would be a workflow from Google's OS development to the SoC makers' chipset support engineering, to the OEMs so that new versions could be continuously integrated and therefore delivered to each product shortly after release. That plus some kind of community support model for EOL'ed products would harness openness in the cause of timely updates and long-term support.
deleted 13y ago
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- drivebyacct2 13y ago
  Play Store Compatibility Lib has been around for a long time brah. edit: since I'm rate limited, I'll reply to engrenage's other troll comment (where he's already whining about downvotes) after deleting this reply where he was also trolling. "So you deleted one troll comment to write another? Wowow. Google is still building out all of the OS components of Android as open source. The Play Service lib is about Android API backward compatibility and doing things, for example, that Apple already does, like aggregate location data for the whole system and then provide it to apps, saves on battery, etc. It really doesn't matter that much for anyone who wants to take Android and build on top of it's important pieces"
pdknsk 13y ago
defragmenting defragging It's just 3 letters saved. Vote me down if you must.
- GauntletWizard 13y ago
  Three letters, a syllable, and sounding better to the technical crowd who understands the jargon (and, if you're outside that technical crowd, you won't understand "defragmenting" any better).
  - wicknicks 13y ago
    The video game community might misinterpret it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frag_%28video_gaming%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frag_%28video_gaming%29
    - ceejayoz 13y ago
      That's exceedingly unlikely.
      - annnnd 13y ago
        Not really - that was how I understood it too, and the title just didn't make any sense. Is "defragging" a common substitute for "defragmenting"? I have never encountered it before.
        mvanvoorden 13y ago
        Yes it is. When MS-DOS introduced defrag.exe, the term defragging came into existence and never left :)
- thrownaway2424 13y ago
  I used to work with a guy who would omit a few vowels in one of those gigantzor java-hostage symbol names, like AbstractTemplateSignalsProviderFactoryBn, as if leaving the "ea" out of "Bean" had helped anyone at all.
engrenage 13y ago
Notably, Play services is totally closed. So Google has abandoned the open source part of Android and is now developing the operating system as a completely closed product. Edit: downvotes don't change the truth of the observation. Android is no longer meaningfully open, other than a years old core of basic functions. Just like OSX and Darwin.
- sciwiz 13y ago
  "So Google has abandoned the open source part of Android and is now developing the operating system as a completely closed product." Not sure what's new here.. Play always came with strings attached. OEMs can choose Play or use AOSP and roll their own Play analogue like Meizu or Xiaomi or Amazon.
  - msoad 13y ago
    Correct me if I'm wrong. From 4.0 Play is mandatory if you want drivers. That's why Barnes and Noble had to put Play on their devices.
    - magicalist 13y ago
      Interesting. Everyone put it as an attempt to keep the Nook relevant (because you get all the google apps with it), but I'd be interested in seeing more on that side of things. Which drivers, though? Usually you'd get the graphics driver from the chipset manufacturer, for instance, who they would already be contracting with because they make the device.
    - estel 13y ago
      I'm not sure what drivers you refer to, but Play definitely isn't mandatory to use the AOSP. Barnes and Noble presumably had all the drivers they needed to make the Nook functional without Play?
    - speeder 13y ago
      I am OEM app developer and can confirm this. One of our apps rely on GPS, and the manufacturers that bought that app from us could only make it work after installing Play Services, and they could not figure a way to make it work without Play Services.
coolnow 13y ago
It'd be interesting to see how it pans out for OEMs that don't, for various reasons, bundle Play Framework/Services with their phones. This could be fixed by having the user install a GApps zip through recovery, but it'd be a pain to the average user. Also, are there, or will there be, any manufacturers forbidden to use the Play Store and its framework? It seems for the vast majority of people, this move is great, but for a tiny minority, i'm not so sure.
- Zigurd 13y ago
  It is difficult to say if manufacturers might get locked out. So far Google has let B&N come in to the Google Play ecosystem when they wanted to do that, and Amazon evidently prefers to cultivate their own ecosystem. If Google could make licensing transparent and accessible to 3rd tier OEMs, that would improve the customer experience at the low end.
  - coolnow 13y ago
    Would Google object to having Play on devices made in and/or for North Korean officials, or Iranians etc? Would Google be forced to restrict access to them? Granted, the amount of people this realistically affects is very small.
lazerwalker 13y ago
It's worth noting how closely Android's apparent path going forward mirror's Apple's strategy with both OS X and iOS: closed end-user components built on top of an open source core. I guess Google's realized that "openness" isn't a meaningful market differentiator for the average consumer.
- engrenage 13y ago
  And we have to assume that Google will do exactly the same thing with Chrome and Chrome OS when it is to their advantage to do so.
- rodly 13y ago
  Google didn't choose the open-source route because it figured consumers would find that enticing. They did that to encourage development on a low marketshare platform. Android exploded in popularity in exchange for fragmentation.
- austinz 13y ago
  I'd like to know what technical benefits there are, if any, from this roundabout approach by Google. I suspect there aren't many, if any, and this is more of a tactic to 'circle around' and retroactively gain tighter control over the OS. (Also, see Google's purchase of Motorola with the intention of making phones with better hardware-software integration...)
  - jffry 13y ago
    They (Google) can release new versions of these core services to almost all users immediately, without those users having to wait for their devices' manufacturers to go through the usual testing and shittification (aka "skinning and customization") process.
- icarus127 13y ago
  I'm interested, what is the open source core in OSX and iOS? I was not aware of any. I know they share code with BSD but I didn't think it was to the extent that one could compare Apple's OS relationship with BSD to Android's relationship with Linux.
deleted 13y ago
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morgante 13y ago
So, the ultimate nail in the coffin for open, fragmented services. If you want to build a good OS, you ultimately have to take almost complete control. (Google is basically following Apple's route.) The reason I think the Google system is worse is that theoretically any application can achieve this level of control. So while I might trust Google, it seems all too easy to trick users into installing a different process which can take complete control of their phone. With iOS, only Apple is capable of this level of control, thus decreasing the attack vectors. EDIT: Admittedly it's highly unlikely that Google would ever let such an application into the Play Store, thus limiting its distribution potential.
- coolnow 13y ago
  Also, Google do some kind of scanning of applications you want to install (optional), last time i checked, so that would probably limit the distribution potential even further. AFAIK, Google's services have root access to the system (they can freely download .apk, install them silently and more), but rogue apps would need a 0day on non-rooted phones,
StringyBob 13y ago
Smart move by google. Potentially they've regained control of their platform past, present and future... In one fell swoop they can resolve fragmentation, keep everyone up to date on functionality/APIs, bypass OEM/carrier update issues (be it carrier QA, OEM lack of interest, or just crapware). Most importantly google can keep any OEM's (ie samsung) in check and prevent them branching away from android. The downsides: what happens when google break an entire range of phones/functionality with an update? Are they going to QA every android product in existence? Will older models slow down and become unusable as the baseline resource requirements increase? (I'm looking at you IOS7)...
r00fus 13y ago
So Rubin departs leadership of Android just before Android becomes "not open". Seems like there's a backstory here that I'd love to hear about.
- estel 13y ago
  Moving some functionality into the Play Services package is a direction that Google have clearly been going in for at least a year: last year both Google+ integrations (understandably) and an updated Google Maps SDK being released. Android Community's original description of Play Services as "In a nutshell, Google Play services allows app developers to integrate other Google services, like Google Plus, into their apps" is still accurate today.
  - r00fus 13y ago
    Again, I'm not going to argue the point, but it does seem like Play has gained a lot more significance after Andy's sidestep. I found the Google memos from the Java trial absolutely fascinating… I imagine the story (going back a couple of years) on this would make great literature.
spion 13y ago
As always, everyone forgets to mention the poor, slow and by now outdated Android WebView - which by the way will finally be getting a very important upgrade in the form of WebViewFactory. This may allow using alternative WebViews, such as a chromium-based webview - another important step towards defragmentation. Some more info is available at http://danosipov.com/?p=572 http://danosipov.com/?p=572
- zenocon 13y ago
  I've been working on something similar myself, since Google has indicated Chromium WebView isn't a priority for them right now https://github.com/davisford/android-chromium-view https://github.com/davisford/android-chromium-view
  - saurik 13y ago
    How does your work compare to this? https://github.com/pwnall/chromeview https://github.com/pwnall/chromeview
    - zenocon 13y ago
      Read the first couple sentences on the github page
      - saurik 13y ago
        I don't see how that answers my question. I did not ask "did you steal this guy's code"... I am curious what your project does differently, when I would choose to use one over the other, and why your project exists. To provide a example, if someone asks me "how does Cydia compare to Installer", I say that it is based on an industry standard packaging system (as opposed to a one-off proprietary one), has package dependencies, a fast local search feature, installs by default with useful repositories, and is open source. It is not useful to say "Cydia is inspired by Installer but shares no common code".
        13y ago
aboodman 13y ago
Alas, the system UI (button bar, switching, etc) are not included in the updateable components :(.
credo 13y ago
>>This is how you beat software fragmentation. This does help defragment Android from a Google (developed) app perspective. However, it doesn't do anything for 3rd-party developers. It doesn't do anything for regular consumers who wish to upgrade their 2.3.3 phones or 4.1 phones to the latest version of Android. So Google has a long way to go before they really defragment Android.
- jaegerpicker 13y ago
  What? It absolutely helps 3rd party app developers. Need a new and better video/gps/network/etc.. api? Right now you stuck depending on a new OS Version. if they start tying api's to play store updates, as they have with things like geolocation/gps functions, they worrying which OS and about fragmentation mostly goes away for 3rd party developers of apps.
  - MBCook 13y ago
    How is Play going to update the kernel without the OEM's involvement? Some software improvements and new libraries will be available, and that's a plus for users. But this is still a far distance from REAL OS updates. I'd worry this disincentives OEMs to do real updates.
    - jaegerpicker 13y ago
      Sure certain very low level items are going to be difficult to update outside of the kernel. Let's use video as an example, it's something I'm really familiar with. At the Kernel android provides an OEM version of the stagefright lib and the actual video drivers, those would be hard to update outside of the kernel. What the play store can easily update is newer and better API's to those low level lib's. Right now those encoder/decoder API's were new in OS version 4.1 ( I think 4 something, just woke up :) ) but using the google play updates new and better API's could be rolled out at anytime.
  - Someone 13y ago
    I'm not sure about the extent of the 'mostly' part. You still have the huge differences in CPU speed, GPU capabilities, screen sizes and amount of memory to cater with. That 5 year old phone may have the latest Play Services, but what good is that if that leaves only 10 kilobytes of RAM for your app?
querulous 13y ago
i think this will ultimately prove to be a terrible move for google. android's success is largely a function of how attractive it is to device manufacturers and carriers. stripping control from them is going to force them into a corner where forking android or moving to another platform (amazon's fork of android, firefox os, windows phone 8 and ubuntu mobile are all potentially technically competitive even if they are not currently feasible).
- xlayn 13y ago
  No better news for the industry and users could have been know today.
- acjohnson55 13y ago
  I don't see what the issue is. It seems to me that the OEMs are still perfectly able to build their own skins and bundle their own apps. They just can't let their recently released devices rot with outdated tech. Not to mention that if OEMs completely leave Android, they lose the app ecosystem. Having already launched an Android app store was a big boost to for the Kindle Fire. Not many other companies can pull that off though.
antrix 13y ago
The headline made me think Android 4.3's fstrim feature (defragging flash storage) is delivered via Play too!
- blinkingled 13y ago
  That only really benefited the Nexus Devices. Far as I know no other popular device has had issues due to lack of fstrim. And all recent Nexus devices already got the 4.3 update. But since Play Services has system level access I am wondering if they could've technically been able to stuff the fstrim daemon along with the app updates. All it does is wakes up on idle and issues trim ioctls - Linux kernel proper has had TRIM support for a while.
  - ZeroGravitas 13y ago
    You can get an app that does it already, but it requires root: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.grilledmonkey.lagfix&hl=fr https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.grilledmon... And I think this affected more than Nexus devices, HTC One gets mentioned in the app description.
  - makomk 13y ago
    They could, but I seem to recall issuing TRIM commands can brick the onboard eMMC Flash chip on some Samsung devices.
ChuckMcM 13y ago
This is an interesting move on Google's part. It is a lot more mature (from the perspective of running a software business) to have this level of control over your destiny. It is also another step away from the engineering driven focus toward the business goals focus. One of the more difficult things to do is have the conversation why something is correct for the business, even if it is an inferior engineering solution. I hope they manage that transition well. The other part of this story seems to be that if you move to this as your "api" then you can move the underlying OS tech to something else as well. (away from Linux to something perhaps smaller for a budget phone.) Should be easier than it was for Microsoft to move everyone to the WinAPI and off DOS.
unono 13y ago
Hackers need to do something about the big companies abusing the app store system. Google, Apple, Amazon are taking far too much fees from independent developers. - Apple's store especially needs to be killed fast for innovation to thrive, Apple is turning out to be the new Microsoft, Tim Cook should fear the wrath of developers - and Google needs to be reminded that it's business could swiftly vanish if it isn't pro-developer and pro-consumer, a 30 percent cut for what amounts to hosting a file is way too much.
- prewett 13y ago
  Hosting a file + handling payments (in all major currencies) + providing worldwide visibility via search and app categories Those last two are pretty big, if you ask me.
e12e 13y ago
"It has its own silent, automatic update mechanism that the user has no control over. In fact, most of the time the user never even knows an update has happened." Great. So, if it was difficult to trust your phone/tablet/tv before it is now impossible. I'm looking more forward to Ubuntu and FirefoxOS than ever before - I want to be able to control what software runs on my devices!
- chx 13y ago
  Yeah. You and the thirty other people (minor exaggeration) who reads this page might want to but perhaps even among them there are a few who can't care less. The general public? You know that well.
acjohnson55 13y ago
I don't understand what the all negativity over these changes is about. Has a significant amount of mainstream Android features being incorporated into play been from the ecosystem, rather than Google? If so, I can see how this could result in a worse end-user experience. But if not, how does providing timely updates and a less fragmented ecosystem such a horrible outcome? Feel free to enlighten me if I'm missing something.
newman314 13y ago
I'm sorry but this makes it sound like Google has come up with this magic way of beating fragmentation. It shouldn't have happened in the first place. Contrast this with iOS upgrade path or what webOS had been doing. Seamless (for the most part) and a great UX. Google is able to do this; see Chrome. What is strange is why they did not adopt the same strategy for Android as for Chrome.
- kalleboo 13y ago
  Easier said than done. Microsoft tried to beat fragmentation in Windows Phone by mandating a specific hardware spec, and even they have had huge issues getting manufacturers to clear updates in time, and they won't even let you update to the new major version.
teovall 13y ago
The elephant in the room here is security. A lot of security updates can be pushed out for the apps and Play Services. However, the underlying OS still needs regular, frequent updates to stay secure, and that's just not happening for the vast majority of Android devices. Who needs 0-day exploits when you have millions of Android devices out there that are vulnerable to exploits that are one, two, or even three years old!?
ZeroGravitas 13y ago
Google/Android really can't win now that this "fragmentation" frame has stuck. Google's been updating core parts of the system like this from day one. The Android Market/Play Store, Maps, Youtube and many other things have received massive updates and been pushed out to millions of people. However, the dominant storyline at the time was that "Android devices don't get upgrades, because fragmentation". Then suddenly, for no obvious reason, the tech bloggers all noticed at once that this was happening (possibly because they had started actually using Android?) and it was portrayed as sudden U-turn by Google. A weapon in their "war" against Samsung (don't get me started on that one).
- ntoshev 13y ago
  Who cares about the tech bloggers? Android customers don't care about fragmentation. They care about having working apps. Developers care about fragmentation, and this approach (unlike updating Youtube in this way) helps with their problem, regardless of what bloggers say and who is in a "war" with whom.
  - ZeroGravitas 13y ago
    They've always had working apps. My whole point is that nothing in reality has changed. That's why I'm focussing on what bloggers say, because that's the only thing that is different.
nomercy400 13y ago
A closed source app that can update itself without notifying the user, and has full permissions? How is this any different from the 'loss of control' to American institutes, like the Windows 8.1 / TPM 2.0 warning from the German government. Isn't this exactly the same thing?
- estel 13y ago
  I've not tried to, but Android surfaces an option to disable Play Services.
gummydude 13y ago
Some services are totally unreliable, for example the Geocoder service.
zerolinesofcode 13y ago
This sounds like Microsoft .net Framework all over again.
unicornporn 13y ago
Only boring updates in 4.3? Have you seen app ops [1] functionality? Hands down the greatest thing to happen to a mobile OS in a long time. I know there's Xprivacy, but having this thing built in is awesome. [1] http://www.androidpolice.com/2013/07/25/app-ops-android-4-3s-hidden-app-permission-manager-control-permissions-for-individual-apps/ http://www.androidpolice.com/2013/07/25/app-ops-android-4-3s...
- notatoad 13y ago
  The author of this Ars article is the same person as the author of that androidpolice article discovering app ops. so yes, i'm pretty sure he's heard of them. App Ops aren't in android 4.3 though. it's not a released feature, it's just a development experiment that never got fully disabled prior to release.
rarw 13y ago
Aside from fighting over whether Android is closed or not this is an interesting solution to dealing with the inconsistencies present in the Android universe. The freedom everyone wants to love that comes with a fully open source Android platform is, in reality, a real pain when you're trying to develop apps. There is at best a plurality of different operating system versions. Phone manufactureres spontaneously stop supporting devcies, only pushing out updates to the newest of the new. OS improvements are lost on those devices left behind until the users can afford a new device or reach the point where they can upgrade. Unlike Apple, where the iOS landscape is 100% consistent (minus physical hardware variations) Android is a mess. Before going to town on Google for "closing" the operating system, let's at least look at the problem they are trying to solve and how this attempt - I'm not saying it's correct, or good - addresses those issues.
bsaul 13y ago
It seems that this article doesn't really separate between user concerns (having the latest google apps) and developper concerns (access to latest APIs). From what I understand, this means developpers will be able to rely on android "services" being updated more often and more consistently available. However, what about things like using new UI components ? For this, you still need the latest OS version, right ? If that's the case, then maybe this would mean users caring even LESS about updating their OS, and thus an even worst situation. i suppose Google thought about it, so there's probably something false in my statement, could anyone confirm ?
- pacofvf 13y ago
  Well it already happened before, with the tabs and other UI components, the solution is a third party library that implements the new UI components in older OS versions, google itself has released backward compatilibity libraries to support new APIs in older OS versions.
- abruzzi 13y ago
  One problem is the article specifically states that API updates will still be tied to OS updates. I know different people have different concepts of fragmentation, but to me the key was the un-updated 2.2 device didn't have the API to support newer apps.
acowlichenbag 13y ago
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452 points by abraham 13y ago

myko 13y ago

I think this is great for Android as a whole, users will be better served. It does cut into the openness of Android though. Unless Amazon bends to Google's way of doing things a little bit their platform will stay even further behind, for instance.

Zigurd 13y ago
Indeed it makes an increasingly important part of Android closed. It would have been better to make all of the parts of Android OS that run in a Dalvik instance updatable - or something like that. Unfortunately that part of Android is effectively held hostage by OEM modifications. It would be nice that if an OEM commits to limiting their modifications to, say, at worst, some privileged apps, that there would be a workflow from Google's OS development to the SoC makers' chipset support engineering, to the OEMs so that new versions could be continuously integrated and therefore delivered to each product shortly after release. That plus some kind of community support model for EOL'ed products would harness openness in the cause of timely updates and long-term support.

deleted 13y ago

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drivebyacct2 13y ago
Play Store Compatibility Lib has been around for a long time brah. edit: since I'm rate limited, I'll reply to engrenage's other troll comment (where he's already whining about downvotes) after deleting this reply where he was also trolling. "So you deleted one troll comment to write another? Wowow. Google is still building out all of the OS components of Android as open source. The Play Service lib is about Android API backward compatibility and doing things, for example, that Apple already does, like aggregate location data for the whole system and then provide it to apps, saves on battery, etc. It really doesn't matter that much for anyone who wants to take Android and build on top of it's important pieces"

pdknsk 13y ago

defragmenting defragging It's just 3 letters saved. Vote me down if you must.

GauntletWizard 13y ago
Three letters, a syllable, and sounding better to the technical crowd who understands the jargon (and, if you're outside that technical crowd, you won't understand "defragmenting" any better).
- wicknicks 13y ago
  The video game community might misinterpret it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frag_%28video_gaming%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frag_%28video_gaming%29
  - ceejayoz 13y ago
    That's exceedingly unlikely.
    - annnnd 13y ago
      Not really - that was how I understood it too, and the title just didn't make any sense. Is "defragging" a common substitute for "defragmenting"? I have never encountered it before.
      - mvanvoorden 13y ago
        Yes it is. When MS-DOS introduced defrag.exe, the term defragging came into existence and never left :)
thrownaway2424 13y ago
I used to work with a guy who would omit a few vowels in one of those gigantzor java-hostage symbol names, like AbstractTemplateSignalsProviderFactoryBn, as if leaving the "ea" out of "Bean" had helped anyone at all.

engrenage 13y ago

Notably, Play services is totally closed. So Google has abandoned the open source part of Android and is now developing the operating system as a completely closed product. Edit: downvotes don't change the truth of the observation. Android is no longer meaningfully open, other than a years old core of basic functions. Just like OSX and Darwin.

sciwiz 13y ago
"So Google has abandoned the open source part of Android and is now developing the operating system as a completely closed product." Not sure what's new here.. Play always came with strings attached. OEMs can choose Play or use AOSP and roll their own Play analogue like Meizu or Xiaomi or Amazon.
- msoad 13y ago
  Correct me if I'm wrong. From 4.0 Play is mandatory if you want drivers. That's why Barnes and Noble had to put Play on their devices.
  - magicalist 13y ago
    Interesting. Everyone put it as an attempt to keep the Nook relevant (because you get all the google apps with it), but I'd be interested in seeing more on that side of things. Which drivers, though? Usually you'd get the graphics driver from the chipset manufacturer, for instance, who they would already be contracting with because they make the device.
  - estel 13y ago
    I'm not sure what drivers you refer to, but Play definitely isn't mandatory to use the AOSP. Barnes and Noble presumably had all the drivers they needed to make the Nook functional without Play?
  - speeder 13y ago
    I am OEM app developer and can confirm this. One of our apps rely on GPS, and the manufacturers that bought that app from us could only make it work after installing Play Services, and they could not figure a way to make it work without Play Services.

coolnow 13y ago

It'd be interesting to see how it pans out for OEMs that don't, for various reasons, bundle Play Framework/Services with their phones. This could be fixed by having the user install a GApps zip through recovery, but it'd be a pain to the average user. Also, are there, or will there be, any manufacturers forbidden to use the Play Store and its framework? It seems for the vast majority of people, this move is great, but for a tiny minority, i'm not so sure.

Zigurd 13y ago
It is difficult to say if manufacturers might get locked out. So far Google has let B&N come in to the Google Play ecosystem when they wanted to do that, and Amazon evidently prefers to cultivate their own ecosystem. If Google could make licensing transparent and accessible to 3rd tier OEMs, that would improve the customer experience at the low end.
- coolnow 13y ago
  Would Google object to having Play on devices made in and/or for North Korean officials, or Iranians etc? Would Google be forced to restrict access to them? Granted, the amount of people this realistically affects is very small.

lazerwalker 13y ago

It's worth noting how closely Android's apparent path going forward mirror's Apple's strategy with both OS X and iOS: closed end-user components built on top of an open source core. I guess Google's realized that "openness" isn't a meaningful market differentiator for the average consumer.

engrenage 13y ago
And we have to assume that Google will do exactly the same thing with Chrome and Chrome OS when it is to their advantage to do so.
rodly 13y ago
Google didn't choose the open-source route because it figured consumers would find that enticing. They did that to encourage development on a low marketshare platform. Android exploded in popularity in exchange for fragmentation.
austinz 13y ago
I'd like to know what technical benefits there are, if any, from this roundabout approach by Google. I suspect there aren't many, if any, and this is more of a tactic to 'circle around' and retroactively gain tighter control over the OS. (Also, see Google's purchase of Motorola with the intention of making phones with better hardware-software integration...)
- jffry 13y ago
  They (Google) can release new versions of these core services to almost all users immediately, without those users having to wait for their devices' manufacturers to go through the usual testing and shittification (aka "skinning and customization") process.
icarus127 13y ago
I'm interested, what is the open source core in OSX and iOS? I was not aware of any. I know they share code with BSD but I didn't think it was to the extent that one could compare Apple's OS relationship with BSD to Android's relationship with Linux.

deleted 13y ago

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morgante 13y ago

So, the ultimate nail in the coffin for open, fragmented services. If you want to build a good OS, you ultimately have to take almost complete control. (Google is basically following Apple's route.) The reason I think the Google system is worse is that theoretically any application can achieve this level of control. So while I might trust Google, it seems all too easy to trick users into installing a different process which can take complete control of their phone. With iOS, only Apple is capable of this level of control, thus decreasing the attack vectors. EDIT: Admittedly it's highly unlikely that Google would ever let such an application into the Play Store, thus limiting its distribution potential.

coolnow 13y ago
Also, Google do some kind of scanning of applications you want to install (optional), last time i checked, so that would probably limit the distribution potential even further. AFAIK, Google's services have root access to the system (they can freely download .apk, install them silently and more), but rogue apps would need a 0day on non-rooted phones,

StringyBob 13y ago

Smart move by google. Potentially they've regained control of their platform past, present and future... In one fell swoop they can resolve fragmentation, keep everyone up to date on functionality/APIs, bypass OEM/carrier update issues (be it carrier QA, OEM lack of interest, or just crapware). Most importantly google can keep any OEM's (ie samsung) in check and prevent them branching away from android. The downsides: what happens when google break an entire range of phones/functionality with an update? Are they going to QA every android product in existence? Will older models slow down and become unusable as the baseline resource requirements increase? (I'm looking at you IOS7)...

r00fus 13y ago

So Rubin departs leadership of Android just before Android becomes "not open". Seems like there's a backstory here that I'd love to hear about.

estel 13y ago
Moving some functionality into the Play Services package is a direction that Google have clearly been going in for at least a year: last year both Google+ integrations (understandably) and an updated Google Maps SDK being released. Android Community's original description of Play Services as "In a nutshell, Google Play services allows app developers to integrate other Google services, like Google Plus, into their apps" is still accurate today.
- r00fus 13y ago
  Again, I'm not going to argue the point, but it does seem like Play has gained a lot more significance after Andy's sidestep. I found the Google memos from the Java trial absolutely fascinating… I imagine the story (going back a couple of years) on this would make great literature.

spion 13y ago

As always, everyone forgets to mention the poor, slow and by now outdated Android WebView - which by the way will finally be getting a very important upgrade in the form of WebViewFactory. This may allow using alternative WebViews, such as a chromium-based webview - another important step towards defragmentation. Some more info is available at http://danosipov.com/?p=572 http://danosipov.com/?p=572

zenocon 13y ago
I've been working on something similar myself, since Google has indicated Chromium WebView isn't a priority for them right now https://github.com/davisford/android-chromium-view https://github.com/davisford/android-chromium-view
- saurik 13y ago
  How does your work compare to this? https://github.com/pwnall/chromeview https://github.com/pwnall/chromeview
  - zenocon 13y ago
    Read the first couple sentences on the github page
    - saurik 13y ago
      I don't see how that answers my question. I did not ask "did you steal this guy's code"... I am curious what your project does differently, when I would choose to use one over the other, and why your project exists. To provide a example, if someone asks me "how does Cydia compare to Installer", I say that it is based on an industry standard packaging system (as opposed to a one-off proprietary one), has package dependencies, a fast local search feature, installs by default with useful repositories, and is open source. It is not useful to say "Cydia is inspired by Installer but shares no common code".
      - 13y ago

aboodman 13y ago

Alas, the system UI (button bar, switching, etc) are not included in the updateable components :(.

credo 13y ago

>>This is how you beat software fragmentation. This does help defragment Android from a Google (developed) app perspective. However, it doesn't do anything for 3rd-party developers. It doesn't do anything for regular consumers who wish to upgrade their 2.3.3 phones or 4.1 phones to the latest version of Android. So Google has a long way to go before they really defragment Android.

jaegerpicker 13y ago
What? It absolutely helps 3rd party app developers. Need a new and better video/gps/network/etc.. api? Right now you stuck depending on a new OS Version. if they start tying api's to play store updates, as they have with things like geolocation/gps functions, they worrying which OS and about fragmentation mostly goes away for 3rd party developers of apps.
- MBCook 13y ago
  How is Play going to update the kernel without the OEM's involvement? Some software improvements and new libraries will be available, and that's a plus for users. But this is still a far distance from REAL OS updates. I'd worry this disincentives OEMs to do real updates.
  - jaegerpicker 13y ago
    Sure certain very low level items are going to be difficult to update outside of the kernel. Let's use video as an example, it's something I'm really familiar with. At the Kernel android provides an OEM version of the stagefright lib and the actual video drivers, those would be hard to update outside of the kernel. What the play store can easily update is newer and better API's to those low level lib's. Right now those encoder/decoder API's were new in OS version 4.1 ( I think 4 something, just woke up :) ) but using the google play updates new and better API's could be rolled out at anytime.
- Someone 13y ago
  I'm not sure about the extent of the 'mostly' part. You still have the huge differences in CPU speed, GPU capabilities, screen sizes and amount of memory to cater with. That 5 year old phone may have the latest Play Services, but what good is that if that leaves only 10 kilobytes of RAM for your app?

querulous 13y ago

i think this will ultimately prove to be a terrible move for google. android's success is largely a function of how attractive it is to device manufacturers and carriers. stripping control from them is going to force them into a corner where forking android or moving to another platform (amazon's fork of android, firefox os, windows phone 8 and ubuntu mobile are all potentially technically competitive even if they are not currently feasible).

xlayn 13y ago
No better news for the industry and users could have been know today.
acjohnson55 13y ago
I don't see what the issue is. It seems to me that the OEMs are still perfectly able to build their own skins and bundle their own apps. They just can't let their recently released devices rot with outdated tech. Not to mention that if OEMs completely leave Android, they lose the app ecosystem. Having already launched an Android app store was a big boost to for the Kindle Fire. Not many other companies can pull that off though.

antrix 13y ago

The headline made me think Android 4.3's fstrim feature (defragging flash storage) is delivered via Play too!

blinkingled 13y ago
That only really benefited the Nexus Devices. Far as I know no other popular device has had issues due to lack of fstrim. And all recent Nexus devices already got the 4.3 update. But since Play Services has system level access I am wondering if they could've technically been able to stuff the fstrim daemon along with the app updates. All it does is wakes up on idle and issues trim ioctls - Linux kernel proper has had TRIM support for a while.
- ZeroGravitas 13y ago
  You can get an app that does it already, but it requires root: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.grilledmonkey.lagfix&hl=fr https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.grilledmon... And I think this affected more than Nexus devices, HTC One gets mentioned in the app description.
- makomk 13y ago
  They could, but I seem to recall issuing TRIM commands can brick the onboard eMMC Flash chip on some Samsung devices.

ChuckMcM 13y ago

This is an interesting move on Google's part. It is a lot more mature (from the perspective of running a software business) to have this level of control over your destiny. It is also another step away from the engineering driven focus toward the business goals focus. One of the more difficult things to do is have the conversation why something is correct for the business, even if it is an inferior engineering solution. I hope they manage that transition well. The other part of this story seems to be that if you move to this as your "api" then you can move the underlying OS tech to something else as well. (away from Linux to something perhaps smaller for a budget phone.) Should be easier than it was for Microsoft to move everyone to the WinAPI and off DOS.

unono 13y ago

Hackers need to do something about the big companies abusing the app store system. Google, Apple, Amazon are taking far too much fees from independent developers. - Apple's store especially needs to be killed fast for innovation to thrive, Apple is turning out to be the new Microsoft, Tim Cook should fear the wrath of developers - and Google needs to be reminded that it's business could swiftly vanish if it isn't pro-developer and pro-consumer, a 30 percent cut for what amounts to hosting a file is way too much.

prewett 13y ago
Hosting a file + handling payments (in all major currencies) + providing worldwide visibility via search and app categories Those last two are pretty big, if you ask me.

e12e 13y ago

"It has its own silent, automatic update mechanism that the user has no control over. In fact, most of the time the user never even knows an update has happened." Great. So, if it was difficult to trust your phone/tablet/tv before it is now impossible. I'm looking more forward to Ubuntu and FirefoxOS than ever before - I want to be able to control what software runs on my devices!

chx 13y ago
Yeah. You and the thirty other people (minor exaggeration) who reads this page might want to but perhaps even among them there are a few who can't care less. The general public? You know that well.

acjohnson55 13y ago

I don't understand what the all negativity over these changes is about. Has a significant amount of mainstream Android features being incorporated into play been from the ecosystem, rather than Google? If so, I can see how this could result in a worse end-user experience. But if not, how does providing timely updates and a less fragmented ecosystem such a horrible outcome? Feel free to enlighten me if I'm missing something.

newman314 13y ago

I'm sorry but this makes it sound like Google has come up with this magic way of beating fragmentation. It shouldn't have happened in the first place. Contrast this with iOS upgrade path or what webOS had been doing. Seamless (for the most part) and a great UX. Google is able to do this; see Chrome. What is strange is why they did not adopt the same strategy for Android as for Chrome.

kalleboo 13y ago
Easier said than done. Microsoft tried to beat fragmentation in Windows Phone by mandating a specific hardware spec, and even they have had huge issues getting manufacturers to clear updates in time, and they won't even let you update to the new major version.

teovall 13y ago

The elephant in the room here is security. A lot of security updates can be pushed out for the apps and Play Services. However, the underlying OS still needs regular, frequent updates to stay secure, and that's just not happening for the vast majority of Android devices. Who needs 0-day exploits when you have millions of Android devices out there that are vulnerable to exploits that are one, two, or even three years old!?

ZeroGravitas 13y ago

Google/Android really can't win now that this "fragmentation" frame has stuck. Google's been updating core parts of the system like this from day one. The Android Market/Play Store, Maps, Youtube and many other things have received massive updates and been pushed out to millions of people. However, the dominant storyline at the time was that "Android devices don't get upgrades, because fragmentation". Then suddenly, for no obvious reason, the tech bloggers all noticed at once that this was happening (possibly because they had started actually using Android?) and it was portrayed as sudden U-turn by Google. A weapon in their "war" against Samsung (don't get me started on that one).

ntoshev 13y ago
Who cares about the tech bloggers? Android customers don't care about fragmentation. They care about having working apps. Developers care about fragmentation, and this approach (unlike updating Youtube in this way) helps with their problem, regardless of what bloggers say and who is in a "war" with whom.
- ZeroGravitas 13y ago
  They've always had working apps. My whole point is that nothing in reality has changed. That's why I'm focussing on what bloggers say, because that's the only thing that is different.

nomercy400 13y ago

A closed source app that can update itself without notifying the user, and has full permissions? How is this any different from the 'loss of control' to American institutes, like the Windows 8.1 / TPM 2.0 warning from the German government. Isn't this exactly the same thing?

estel 13y ago
I've not tried to, but Android surfaces an option to disable Play Services.

gummydude 13y ago

Some services are totally unreliable, for example the Geocoder service.

zerolinesofcode 13y ago

This sounds like Microsoft .net Framework all over again.

unicornporn 13y ago

Only boring updates in 4.3? Have you seen app ops [1] functionality? Hands down the greatest thing to happen to a mobile OS in a long time. I know there's Xprivacy, but having this thing built in is awesome. [1] http://www.androidpolice.com/2013/07/25/app-ops-android-4-3s-hidden-app-permission-manager-control-permissions-for-individual-apps/ http://www.androidpolice.com/2013/07/25/app-ops-android-4-3s...

notatoad 13y ago
The author of this Ars article is the same person as the author of that androidpolice article discovering app ops. so yes, i'm pretty sure he's heard of them. App Ops aren't in android 4.3 though. it's not a released feature, it's just a development experiment that never got fully disabled prior to release.

rarw 13y ago

Aside from fighting over whether Android is closed or not this is an interesting solution to dealing with the inconsistencies present in the Android universe. The freedom everyone wants to love that comes with a fully open source Android platform is, in reality, a real pain when you're trying to develop apps. There is at best a plurality of different operating system versions. Phone manufactureres spontaneously stop supporting devcies, only pushing out updates to the newest of the new. OS improvements are lost on those devices left behind until the users can afford a new device or reach the point where they can upgrade. Unlike Apple, where the iOS landscape is 100% consistent (minus physical hardware variations) Android is a mess. Before going to town on Google for "closing" the operating system, let's at least look at the problem they are trying to solve and how this attempt - I'm not saying it's correct, or good - addresses those issues.

bsaul 13y ago

It seems that this article doesn't really separate between user concerns (having the latest google apps) and developper concerns (access to latest APIs). From what I understand, this means developpers will be able to rely on android "services" being updated more often and more consistently available. However, what about things like using new UI components ? For this, you still need the latest OS version, right ? If that's the case, then maybe this would mean users caring even LESS about updating their OS, and thus an even worst situation. i suppose Google thought about it, so there's probably something false in my statement, could anyone confirm ?

pacofvf 13y ago
Well it already happened before, with the tabs and other UI components, the solution is a third party library that implements the new UI components in older OS versions, google itself has released backward compatilibity libraries to support new APIs in older OS versions.
abruzzi 13y ago
One problem is the article specifically states that API updates will still be tied to OS updates. I know different people have different concepts of fragmentation, but to me the key was the un-updated 2.2 device didn't have the API to support newer apps.

acowlichenbag 13y ago

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