17 ms·

What happens when you use a standing desk for two years

467 points by arshadgc 13y ago

AznHisoka 13y ago
"First, what did not happen: I didn’t develop any knee, foot, back, or hip pains. I don’t feel exhausted at the end of the day or week. My productivity and ability to concentrate did not go down." Am I misunderstanding the double negatives here? Are these things that DID happen?
- arshadgc 13y ago
  Good point. I'll have to fix that paragraph.
jchrisa 13y ago
I've been doing the for a few months and my experience is similar. Especially the impatience with sitting thing. I can't stand car rides.
VladRussian2 13y ago
>I raised my computer 5 inches higher than when I first started because I was bending my head too far forward. My keyboard is now at chest level and my eyes are looking slightly downward at about 105º. been to chiropractor recently and he shown me X-ray of my neck. This bending forward is actually an unnatural straightening of the neck where it normally would be curved. Cause for a host of issues now and in future.
- tghw 13y ago
  I would be weary of putting too much credence into that particular diagnosis. Very few people have the "recommended" neck curve. For unscrupulous chiropractors, it's something they can easily point at as something that needs fixing and they'll present you with a "treatment plan" that requires regular visits over the next X months. There's almost nothing in the way of unbiased research which has shown the neck angle to be the problem they say it is.
  - bollockitis 13y ago
    Possibly, but straightening of the cervical spine is a real condition and it can be treated. I know because I have it, and I was diagnosed by an orthopedic surgeon.
    - tghw 13y ago
      And if an orthopod diagnoses it, then it's probably legitimate. What I was saying is that, in my experience trying to find good chiropractors, the ones that jump straight to x-rays and neck angle are highly correlated with scams.
  - robbiep 13y ago
    Agreed. The key word that should be red flagging this post is 'chiropractor'
    - VladRussian2 13y ago
      you guys have typical case of Dunning-Kruger. Do you have immediate friends or family treated by chiropractor (i have), have you seen chiropractor yourself (i have). Can you point any specific respectable publication which dismiss chiropractors as a whole or shows significant presence of "unscrupoluousness"? Until that your groundless dismissal of the whole class of professional people and their practice is just it, groundless childish dismissal.
      - robbiep 13y ago
        And I diagnose you with a severe case of confirmation bias. Start here: http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/3801081.htm http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/3801081.htm Shift over here for some overview: http://crookedtimber.org/2009/06/04/if-this-is-evidence-based-medicine-i-want-my-old-job-back/ http://crookedtimber.org/2009/06/04/if-this-is-evidence-base... Then jump into the hard science at SBM: http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/chiropractic-a-brief-overview-part-i/ http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/chiropractic-a-brief-ove... http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/chiropractic-a-brief-overview-part-ii/ http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/chiropractic-a-brief-ove... It's not acusing someone from a position of superiority if a profession has continually shown itself incapable of eliminating the pseudoscience in its practice, which is most of it. A claim could be made that Chiropractory is largely fraud based on their incredibly weak evidence base and the fact they are charging money for treatment that is no better than placebo. Have a nice day!
dabernathy89 13y ago
I'm a few days in, and my feet are pretty sore. I've been trying to get into it slowly, with sitting breaks. What has surprised me the most is that I don't feel more drained at the end of the day - if anything, I have more energy than before. edit: one negative I have noticed - which I hope goes away - is with concentration. I'm having a hard time switching between tasks. Once i'm on one, I'm fine, but for some reason my brain is resisting starting new tasks more than when I was sitting.
- mkeung 13y ago
  Look into getting a fatigue mat. I had the exact same issue when I started, and standing on the mat helps reduce the soreness. edit: I used http://iamnotaprogrammer.com/Ikea-Standing-desk-for-22-dollars.html http://iamnotaprogrammer.com/Ikea-Standing-desk-for-22-dolla... to get a standing desk for cheap
  - dabernathy89 13y ago
    Yeah, I picked one up from Bed Bath and Beyond and it's helped a lot. First day (without it) was brutal. edit: funny, I also hacked mine together with Ikea parts. Looks pretty good too.
- Pxtl 13y ago
  A pneumatic drafting stool will go up to standing height. Draftsmen have been using standing-height desks and stools for ages. This is my personal approach - I can switch back and forth between standing and sitting as needed.
- mason240 13y ago
  I went through that too for the first couple of weeks, but it did eventually go away.
jurassic 13y ago
I've been looking into this but haven't taken the leap yet because I decided I wanted an external monitor and keyboard. A standing setup with a laptop seems less than optimal from an ergonomic point of view. Isn't it better to decouple the keyboard and monitor so that you can place the monitor and keyboard each at the optimal height? I've done some informal testing with stacked books and couldn't find a height that was comfortable for both viewing and typing on my Macbook. Comfortable typing height makes me hunch over to look at the screen.
- dabernathy89 13y ago
  I'm using an external mouse and keyboard with my laptop at the same level as my 2nd monitor. It works pretty well.
- deleted 13y ago
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- mrweasel 13y ago
  I'm always a bit baffled when people build something to prop up their laptop. I guess mostly because I'm an a country where you're not allow (legally) to use a laptop as a permanent workstation, unless you have an external monitor, keyboard and mouse. To have a comfortable standing position, you really need to be able to move your monitor separately from the keyboard. Most monitors doesn't really allow you to adjust their height, even iMacs just allow you to tilt the screen, which isn't what you want. If you want to switch position during the day, you either need a really good desk where you can rise the monitor separately or a monitor where the "neck" extends.
  - josephpmay 13y ago
    Wait, what? Your government actually regulates what can and cannot be used as a permanent workstation? What country do you live in? How does that even work?
    - hibbelig 13y ago
      Germany here. It's a kind of a safety regulation. Think of it as a right that the employee has. The employee has to provide the equipment and supplies that you need to do your work, and equipment that prevents "injuries" (wrong term for the long term effect of bad ergonomics) is amongst the equipment you need. So if you work at a desk with a computer, you are entitled to a separate monitor and keyboard and mouse. If you don't want to use the keyboard, you can set it aside, of course. But it's there for you to use it if you like.
ancarda 13y ago
Will this work for my monitor and keyboard? I need a way to elevate my desktop as I don't have a laptop.
- fzzzy 13y ago
  It should be even better as the monitor can be at eye level and the keyboard and mouse can be at a comfortable height.
  - emmelaich 13y ago
    Yes, I think so too. In fact I think using a laptop standing (or sitting for that matter) is less than optimum; the screen will be too low and the keyboard too high.
euroclydon 13y ago
I had a standing desk once, but after a few months, I found I had to sit to get any serious thinking done. Anyone else experienced this phenomenon?
- ulisesrmzroche 13y ago
  I had the same experience, though I've been trying them on-and-off for years now. Walter Murch (demi-god of film editing) has an interesting take on it. "Unlike most film editors today, Murch works standing up, comparing the process of film editing to "conducting, brain surgery and short-order cooking", since all conductors, cooks and surgeons stand when they work. In contrast, when writing, he does so lying down. His reason for this is that where editing film is an editorial process, the creation process of writing is opposite that, and so he lies down rather than sit or stand up, to separate his editing mind from his creating mind." Maybe we should refactor standing up and write code sitting down? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Murch http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Murch
  - abecedarius 13y ago
    He said lying down, now sitting. I usually code lying down, myself. But I certainly don't stand to refactor; it'd be easy to try, though it seems a little out there.
    - ulisesrmzroche 13y ago
      True, thanks for catching that. I prefer to write code lying on the couch, too, though I never noticed this before. Does anyone else code lying down?
      - mkopinsky 13y ago
        How does the ergonomics of this work? The intellectual part of writing code may be improved, but physically typing the code while on the couch can't be a good thing. (Typed while laying in bed, in a way that would certainly screw up my wrists if I did this long term.)
leothekim 13y ago
I've had a herniated disk (L4-L5) for several years, and tried a lot of different things - pilates, physical therapy, epidural steroid injections, special chairs, etc. Using a standing desk has been a godsend for me. I no longer fear inducing any back spasms after prolonged sitting. That said, my feet hurt at the end of the day, and I still need to sit from time to time to take the weight off my feet. Am looking into padded shoes, but it's interesting to see that Arshad didn't need any special padding after a couple years.
- deleted 13y ago
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- mistercow 13y ago
  Padded shoes may actually be counterproductive. The problem with padding is that humans actually already have an extremely sophisticated active shock and balance system in our ankles and knees, and when you add a passive system like padding on the feet, you force that system to work harder and adjust in unnatural ways. Essentially, you're setting yourself up to always be walking on unsteady ground. So you might want to first try going barefoot for a while, and see if that helps. If you aren't accustomed to standing barefoot for long periods, it will take some time for your body to adjust, but I suspect that you will adjust faster to that than to padding.
  - leothekim 13y ago
    Thanks for the suggestion! I've been wearing orthotics for a while actually, and I'm going to talk to my podiatrist to see if I still need them. Also, I'm curious if compression stockings mitigate soreness when standing for prolonged periods. I talked to a surgeon who says they've helped him his feet feel better while operating hours at a time.
    - eropple 13y ago
      I actually wear compression calf sleeves (same as I do for basketball) sometimes when working at my standing desk, and I do notice a positive difference. I do often wear a pair of padded sandals instead of just standing on the carpet, though. I have an anti-fatigue mat too, but the sandals work better.
smtddr 13y ago
Nice. My office just got these for everyone about 2 weeks ago. At first my feet were sore, but now I'm fine after about a week. Note that I already jog for 20-30mins every morning so maybe I adapted a bit quicker than some. I think the big change for me is that standing seems to reduce hunger and my tendency to snack on stuff. Also, my stomach has stopped making those gurgle-sounds that eating lunch then immediately sitting down for a hour seems to cause. I also feel more energetic. Since I'm standing, coding and listening polskastacja online radio(Google it!) I'm usually kinda dancing in place most of the day. ^_^
- mistercow 13y ago
  Perhaps sitting for long periods was a trigger for unhealthy snacking habits for you. That alone could actually account for a major difference in energy levels.
mistercow 13y ago
It's worth noting, for those who aren't aware, that current evidence (while scant) does not support the hypothesis that using a standing desk is healthier than using an ordinary sit-down desk. In fact, the evidence for ordinary desks being harmful is not nearly as strong as standing desk proponents would have you believe. It certainly can't be taken as a given, though, that if long sedentary periods are harmful, long periods of standing still are significantly better.
- icpmacdo 13y ago
  While there may not be evidence for it the amount of positve anecdotal stories seem to consistently say its better than sitting at a desk all day long.
  - mistercow 13y ago
    This is unfortunately a perfect situation where anecdotes are not very valuable, as can be seen by the fact that the same pattern can be observed with obvious nonsense like hologram patches and magnetic bracelets. We see a typically less gullible set of subjects for these anecdotes, but that can unfortunately be explained entirely by the more plausible sounding hypothesis. I'll dispense with the full Bayesian treatment here, but what we have here is a case of the base rate fallacy (although not the form that is usually discussed): failing to account for the prior probability of the evidence. That is, we have some evidence, which is that the anecdotes we see are largely in favor of standing desks being helpful, and we need to account for how likely that evidence is regardless of whether standing desks are helpful. Unfortunately, as our friends with the magnetic bracelets demonstrate, that probability turns out to be very high. If something works, we see overwhelmingly positive anecdotes. If it doesn't work, we see overwhelmingly positive anecdotes. Why might this be? Well, for one thing, there is sensitivity to placebo effects, because have purely qualitative phenomena that are being reported only subjectively. But even stronger is a selection bias that has to do with people's behavior in reporting and reading. Someone is unlikely to write about their experiences publicly who tries a standing desk for a while, finds no significant benefit, and goes back to a sitting desk. She won't find it interesting to talk about, and she may also be self-conscious that she didn't do it right, and would be inviting criticism. After all "I tried X and it didn't work" is, on some level, an admission of personal failure, and people aren't particularly prone to those. And if she does write it up, her write-up isn't likely to get all that much attention because "X didn't work for me" isn't a particularly interesting story. But one who finds the standing desk to be a miracle cure for all of her problems is relatively likely to write about it, and people will take notice, because "making a simple lifestyle change improved my quality of life" is an attention getter.
tankbot 13y ago
I find it best to move between sitting/standing. I sit in the morning and stand in the afternoon. Standing in the afternoon gets/keeps circulation going and prevents that drowsy feeling that can sap productivity after work. Something else that's great to add: a bicycle. I sold my car and commute by bike to/from work about 7 miles each way. The added leg strength is amazing, not to mention it tightens your core, which helps with back pain, and there are cardio benefits, too. It's also a lot of fun. I look for excuses to ride my bike.
chaostheory 13y ago
From personal experience, standing desks are great for back problems or preventing them. However even after about four years of doing it I find that you either need a lot of padding for your heels or you need to learn to stand using the front portion of your feet. Looking at the post about the only I don't like is that Arshad's setup doesn't look ergonomic. I tend to have the keyboard about the same height as my waist with my monitor closer in height to my head. For me when I didn't have that setup, I began to have neck and wrist issues.
cromwellian 13y ago
I'm severely flat footed (wet footprint has no arch) and standing more than a few minutes starts to hurt my feet. Anyone else flat footed who tried a standing desk?
- austinz 13y ago
  I'm in the same boat. Buying a cushioned mat made the difference between having to sit after a few hours and being able to comfortably stand all day long.
- nowarninglabel 13y ago
  A colleague who is flat footed uses standing desks with us. She decided recently to get surgery done to fix that flat footed issue and so far so good.
- shawnc 13y ago
  I am flat footed. I bought a standing mat (one that is made for a kitchen/workshop) and then got some great shoes (ones intended for nurses and doctors). I did this about 1 week into switching to a standing desk cold turkey. I switched almost 2 years ago now (22 months ago), and sometimes I may go a day sitting at home with my laptop... and I really am happy when I get back to my standing desk at my office the next day.
  - lostlogin 13y ago
    Proper shoes. Yes! I used to wear lead gowns in operating theaters, adding 20kgs to my existing 100kgs (I'm a smidge and 2m). My feet were absolute agony after each shift. Changing to good shoes and a theatre upgrade that made installed squishy Lino helped a lot (with a big downside - pushing 500kg x-ray gear was not that much easier than pushing it through sand would have been. I effectively plowed the floor every time I more it). Get good shoes!
    - protomyth 13y ago
      Any favorite brands?
simplekoala 13y ago
I have been doing this for about a month now. I am kicking myself for not having made the switch anytime sooner. Come to think of it, I feel humans are just not designed to sit for long hours in chairs. Standing position is natural. You feel free and are less constrained compared to a sitting position. Posture changes happen a lot more; And breaks you take are more active or sometimes continuous. They also become less of a chore. If there is an iota of doubt in your mind, that sitting for long hours is somehow screwing up your back then please switch to a standing desk.
fzzzy 13y ago
I've been standing since 2007 and I love it. An external monitor and keyboard setup is important for me, since the laptop keyboard and monitor are too close together to be able to both type comfortably and see the screen with my neck in a good position, but that might just be because I am very tall and have a long torso. I have arrived at a very interesting angle for my keyboard which I haven't seen elsewhere. I use the Kinesis Advantage and built a little wedge out of wood to stand it on so that the keyboard is pitched in the opposite direction than most. It is arranged to be much higher at the front than the back, almost vertical, so I can type without bending my wrists or elbows at all. Can't see the key caps in this arrangement but I can touch type with my eyes closed. I also have a huge external touchscreen monitor designed for windows 8 that I managed to get working on the mac. It's much nicer to use than a mouse or a trackpad although making extremely precise mouse movements is hard and I keep a regular mouse around to use when needed.
- mistercow 13y ago
  I would be very careful with that keyboard set up. It sounds very likely to cause RSI problems.
  - fzzzy 13y ago
    Can you explain?
    - mistercow 13y ago
      I was searching for evidence, and it appears I may be wrong. Cornell (http://ergo.human.cornell.edu/ahtutorials/typingposture.html http://ergo.human.cornell.edu/ahtutorials/typingposture.html) is one example that seems to think your set up is better than normal.
      - fzzzy 13y ago
        Cool, thanks. That is a useful page. The reason I arrived at the setup I have is because I got RSI and first switched to a standing desk where my elbows were bent, which caused even more pain. I was forced to try different positions until I arrived at the one that I use now, in which I tried to keep my joints in as neutral a position as possible.
aliston 13y ago
Be careful with an abrupt switch to a standing desk. Essentially, you need to build up core and leg strength over time to prevent strain. I've been using a standing desk for a little over a year now and have many of the same observations as the OP. I also like to alternate between sitting and standing throughout the day to mix it up. I'm never going back. But, when you first switch, you are probably putting a lot of stress on muscles that have atrophied from sitting so much. If you switch patterns too abruptly, you're likely to end up with a muscle strain or back problems, or will start leaning on your desk, which can cause problems with wrist injuries/carpel tunnel. http://healthland.time.com/2011/04/13/the-dangers-of-sitting-at-work%E2%80%94and-standing/ http://healthland.time.com/2011/04/13/the-dangers-of-sitting...
- gtaylor 13y ago
  You deserve many upvotes. Couldn't agree more with both of your points. Buy a stool so you can prop up while you're switching! Alternate frequently even after that like aliston says. I switched without a chair and it was a very uncomfortable/unproductive first week. In hindsight, that was a pretty stupid thing to do, just don't make the same mistake.
- w1ntermute 13y ago
  > I also like to alternate between sitting and standing throughout the day to mix it up. I want to get a motorized desk and switch between sitting and standing once an hour or so - something like that seems like the optimal solution.
- arshadgc 13y ago
  This is a great point. I just dove in, but was in good shape to begin with, but I imagine for more sedentary people this could actually be a dangerous transition!
- deleted 13y ago
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- vidarh 13y ago
  This is a guide that's been very popular over at r/fitness to correct "computer guy" posture: http://www.reddit.com/r/Fitness/comments/ewrr0/writeup_on_the_dreaded_anterior_pelvic_tilt_or/ http://www.reddit.com/r/Fitness/comments/ewrr0/writeup_on_th... I'm at an advanced level strength wise for overhead press, squats and bench press, and need a lot of core strength to handle my lifts, yet standing for a long time is still brutal because of my posture and lacking strength in various smaller muscles, as well as lack of flexibility in certain muscles. It's getting better quickly (I don't use a standing desk, but I do specific work to improve my posture), but even for people who think they've got a steel core after exercise might get nasty surprises if they try to stand all day.
b0rsuk 13y ago
A thought-provoking comment from the article: """In time, you will suffer from various types of pain and injuries at blood vessels. Speak with a middle-aged barber with 30 years of "standing" experience, and ask him about his legs.""" I'm actually going to ask a few barbers. I'll tell you how it went once this kind of article pops up again (and it will).
- jimhefferon 13y ago
  Of course a person can get support socks.
- robbiep 13y ago
  So standing is a rick factor for the development of varicose veins. However. If you are standing at a desk you are most likely going to be making micro changes to your stance throughout which will act as a muscular pump, returning blood to your heart and reducing the venous pressure in your legs. Surgeons for example are not at significantly higher risk than the average person for development of varicose veins because they are generally making small movements fairly consistently. A guard in a pillbox outside Windsor castle, on the other hand, would be at a higher risk because he is not supposed to be making the micromovements that will return the blood and reduce venous pressure, potentially causing valvular incompetence and dilated superficial leg veins specially if predisposed genetically. Source: med student, asked lecturers about this specifically and have talked to numerous surgeons. And as someone in the article mentioned, using compression stockings would obviate any concerns that a person may have
  - mason240 13y ago
    That's why I have a bar 15 inches high that runs beneath my desk. I can put a foot up on in it and change position every 5-10 minutes.
  - b0rsuk 13y ago
    I know it's a sample of 1, but the female barber I visited the last time does in fact have visible varicose veins. The male barber wasn't wearing stockings.
tvanantwerp 13y ago
If you try this, be sure you don't half-ass it. I tried a standing desk, but couldn't raise the desk I had high enough. I tried putting my mouse and keyboard on top of other objects to give extra height, but eventually gave up because it was too difficult. I stayed standing, though, and the angle I bent my wrist at for so long has seriously messed up my right wrist. Even after returning to my usual sitting desk for months, the pain hasn't gone away (it's actually gotten worse) and I'm looking for a good rheumatologist. Do not half-ass a standing desk.
pearjuice 13y ago
"Hang on, I will see if we have a model in stock" and the sales representative walks over to a near standing desk in the store with a computer connected to the inventory system only to return 5 minutes later with the information which answers my question. Funny how I have this feeling that when using a standing desk one will have the continous urge to walk away. I just fail to imagine how someone will stand the entire day behind a desk; I have actually never heard of standing desks before being used for full time operations. What if you want to take a minute of? As in just lounging back in a traditional chair and look at the screen for a while? You walk a circle? For the life of me! What do you do if you have a break? Eat whilst standing?
johnyzee 13y ago
I say this to anyone within earshot whenever this topic comes up: Get a motorized adjustable desk that you can stand or sit at. Unless you are a freak of nature, sometimes you will want or need to sit down. These desks are the norm in every office here in Denmark and I am always baffled that it is some kind of esoteric thing worthy of debate in America. Having gotten used to them at the office, I got one for my home because I could no longer bear having to sit all the time. It cost around $500, a beautiful desk with customized bezel and finish. There are many suppliers, I used this one: http://www.conset.dk http://www.conset.dk (My desk: http://imgur.com/A1eS2 http://imgur.com/A1eS2)
- marknutter 13y ago
  Yes! When I first started using a standing desk I found I actually got quite sick of standing for long stretches and would just end up taking my laptop over to the couch to work. I finally got a http://www.geekdesk.com http://www.geekdesk.com and I'm happy as a clam.
  - simplekoala 13y ago
    Why are these things so damn expensive? Looks like they are fleecing money ( or it appears so for my cheapskate sensibilities ). Someone should start a kick-starter project to make good ones for a reasonable price.
    - lukifer 13y ago
      The nichier the market, the more price has to go up to compensate. I also doubt there's much competition in the field, other than DIY or not using a convertible desk at all.
      - stevesearer 13y ago
        There are actually more options for height adjustable desks than you might imagine. I wrote up a post a while back that listed 7, but commenters have since added quite a few more. http://officesnapshots.com/2012/08/24/7-adjustable-height-desks-that-wont-betray-and-kill-you/ http://officesnapshots.com/2012/08/24/7-adjustable-height-de...
thisjustinm 13y ago
I've been using an Ikea standing desk [1] off and on for a year and a half but most recently all day for the past two months. I definitely feel better overall (energy, alertness, etc) vs sitting. I have a trackball mouse and Kinesis Freestyle 2 keyboard in addition to a raised external monitor and laptop stand for ergonomics. The first two weeks my legs were very tired at the end of the day but now I'm used to it. I have a padded mat and use a chair to kneel on to switch up my posture and shift weight throughout the day. Now that I'm adjusted I don't think I'll ever go back to sitting. 1 - http://iamnotaprogrammer.com/Ikea-Standing-desk-for-22-dollars.html http://iamnotaprogrammer.com/Ikea-Standing-desk-for-22-dolla...
reustle 13y ago
From my experience, keep your elbows at a 90 degree angle and make sure you're looking straight ahead, or very slightly down. Also, don't listen to people who say buy some expensive adjustable desk. I wrote about building my treadmill desk and other standing desks here: http://reustle.io/blog/cant-stand-sitting http://reustle.io/blog/cant-stand-sitting
- lukifer 13y ago
  I'm about to put together a cheap treadmill desk. Any tips, or resources you can recommend? I'm a bit of noob at hardware hacking.
  - wpietri 13y ago
    My big regret with my treadmill desk was the noise level. Definitely test anything before purchase to see if you can comfortably talk over it and think without distraction.
    - reustle 13y ago
      I think most decent quality treadmills tend to be noisy. I use noise canceling headphones to listen to music (or nothing) when I'm on the desk.
  - reustle 13y ago
    Do you already have a treadmill? If not, grab whatever quality you can afford from craigslist. I didn't do any electronics hacking on mine. I took a few trips to Home Depot to buy misc hardware for the monitor mount and keyboard base. It was mostly a result of trial and error taken one piece at a time (monitor mount, then keyboard mount). Feel free to contact me directly if you want me to look over any mockups or have any other questions.
spindritf 13y ago
I have an almost identical laptop table[1]. Is it a popular design? One Chinese factory, 20 distributors all over the world kind of thing? Anyway, when I use it in a standing desk configuration, I keep it much lower, so my arms just drop onto the computer. It's rather nice but I prefer to regularly (every hour or two) switch positions -- standing desk, lie down, sit on the floor... [1] http://www.silentiumpc.com/en/atlas-nt-l10-notebook-table/?lang=en http://www.silentiumpc.com/en/atlas-nt-l10-notebook-table/?l...
Dewie 13y ago
But... how will agile teams get anything more out of standup meetings if everyone is used to standing up anyway? :/ :)
- vidarh 13y ago
  You switch to doing the meetings while walking up and down the stairs. Or balancing on one leg.
  - dbecker 13y ago
    Or sitting. The article claims that has become uncomfortable.
  - vacri 13y ago
    "From today, staff, instead of the morning 'stand-up', we will be 'legging it'"
  - skeletonjelly 13y ago
    This is how they do it at the Ministry of Silly Agile
moron4hire 13y ago
I used one for about 6 months every day for about 6 hours a day before I couldn't take the pain in my lower back anymore.
pizu 13y ago
Also - your arms and wrists should really be horizontal to your elbows or near horizontal. Looking at the picture...your wrists are way too high above your elbows...this is bad and will cause the blood to flow away from your fingers.
frank_boyd 13y ago
You're doing it wrong. Working on a laptop only all day long is insane. You need to separate screen an keyboard, otherwise one of them will be at the wrong height! If you use a laptop, it means you need to add an external keyboard. Everything else makes absolutely no ergonomic sense! Example: http://www.ergotron.com/ProductsDetails/tabid/65/PRDID/320/language/en-US/Default.aspx http://www.ergotron.com/ProductsDetails/tabid/65/PRDID/320/l... You can sit and then stand up by just pulling the table up easily with one hand.
- vacri 13y ago
  I always find this weird, that when people start talking about office ergonomics, they so frequently ignore the laptop elephant in the room. Laptops are convenient, but they are not ergonomic. In my own office, I have to badger people to accept a monitor and separate keyboard. Usually they resist because "laptops are cool!", but after they actually try a bigger, separate screen and moveable keyboard, they would never be without them.
- frank_boyd 13y ago
  As for the best keyboard I've ever used: http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/freestyle2.htm http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/freestyle2.htm (Freestyle2 VIP3; forget the "Ascent")
LekkoscPiwa 13y ago
I tried it for a little over a month. Just doesn't work for me. Very bad knee pain, shoulders pain, felt not tired but kind of awkward. Felt like punishment. My fat ass prefers sitting. Period.
colmvp 13y ago
Anyone have options for people who can't stand for prolonged periods of time?
- abecedarius 13y ago
  I have no authority, but I suspect lying down is ergonomically better than sitting. (It does take some experimentation to find a keyboard/screen setup that works.)
- pbreit 13y ago
  Yes, use a high chair. Pretty much any decent one [1] will do since you aren't spending a full day in it (but get at least a decent one, not a cruddy one). 1: http://www.overstock.com/search?keywords=drafting+chair http://www.overstock.com/search?keywords=drafting+chair I far prefer a high chair to an adjustable desk. Adjustable desks involve too much of a mental decision and then a couple minutes of downtime every time. And added cost.
  - Miyamoto 13y ago
    The problem with drafting chairs is tall people. I have yet to find one in the 45-50" maximum seat height range suitable for people 6 ft or taller. (Most drafting chairs extend to around 40" seat height, which is way too low for a tall person)
btbuildem 13y ago
I use a standing desk with a bar chair (?) to sit down from time to time. Been using it for a year; initially I'd get tired of standing, but with time it became easy to stand for prolonged periods of time. Here's my setup: http://i.imgur.com/PjpwQXc.jpg http://i.imgur.com/PjpwQXc.jpg (it's a little DIY :) FWIW, I've had lower back issues for a long time, and this one change seems to have improved my condition more than the multitude of exercises and treatments I've tried over the years.
breckenedge 13y ago
Anyone else out there using a balance board in addition to standing? I began using a 16" balance board at the same time as switching to a standing desk, so I cannot honestly evaluate the difference of having one or not.
Miyamoto 13y ago
What is a good stool or drafting chair for a standing desk, for a person around 6 ft? I have a standing desk but I haven't been able to find a compatible drafting chair or stool for my height. They all don't raise high enough.
playhard 13y ago
Is there a possibility of getting Varicose veins in your legs by doing this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varicose_veins http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varicose_veins
treetrouble 13y ago
What model laptop stand is he using in the picture?
therandomguy 13y ago
Doesn't this cause Varicose veins: http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/varicose-veins/DS00256 http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/varicose-veins/DS00256
auctiontheory 13y ago
I love my IKEA Jerker standing desk. IKEA no longer sells them, but you can pick one up on Craigslist for under $100.
maddddddddddddd 13y ago
amazon referral code in the product link? i guess that's one of the "tricks of the trade" HN: ADVERTISEMENT
JVIDEL 13y ago
I can testify for the back pain: I used to get almost chronic lower-back (lumbar) pain, but now that I moved to a standing desk the pain has disappeared.
Ziomislaw 13y ago
One thing which struck me as strange is the picture. I mean, don't your hands start to ache when you keep them in air without no place to rest them? (his elbows are hanging in the air, not resing on some solid surface) Personally I can't manage typing comfortably without keeping my elbows at the table.
mratzloff 13y ago
I have a GeekDesk Pro and I would highly recommend it. GeekDesk's customer service is fantastic. Incidentally, I customized mine with a custom alder wood desktop, stained a kind of cedar color. I change up standing and sitting a few times a day. You burn about 100 calories an hour just from standing, so standing for about 6 hours a day you burn an extra 600 calories. Makes a difference. Plus, much better for your posture and lower back. However, you shouldn't be looking down at your monitor. It should be at eye level. A monitor arm can help with that.
agumonkey 13y ago
At this point he's almost ready for wearable computing. Thanks to him for talking about his experience, it's an inspiration to follow the same steps.
pyrocat 13y ago
I'm surprised no one has recommended MultiTable yet. They sell a sturdy, adjustable, standing desk for under $500. The only problem (feature?) is that it doesn't come with a table top. I solved for that by buying one from IKEA for ~$50 and screwing it in. The whole setup process took about an hour and now I've got a standing desk at home! It only takes a few seconds of using the hand-crank to lower or raise it to whatever height I want, and the crank isn't even obtrusive. I recommend the desk to anyone who's looking for an adjustable standing desk but doesn't want to pay an arm and a leg for the motorized feature/power drain. edit: amazon link http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005NJUQVG http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005NJUQVG
rossjudson 13y ago
I don't know whether your standing desk experience is generally applicable, but I do know good marketing when I see it. Well-played, sir! I expect Power 20 will sell a few more units.
joshuak 13y ago
This [1] is my desk, and I love it (I actually have 2 in a half circle, one PC one Mac). I've added a second deck, and the Mac side as 2 cinema displays on arms so they can be raised to eye level when standing. Now this is a little expensive setup, but I LOVE it, and feel it was absolutely worth the investment. I've been using it for a few years now. It is not motorized, since you only lift the keyboard mouse section, and it is couter blanaced by spring to make that easy. This actually makes it very fast and easy to switch and cheaper at the same time. I strongly prefer that over motorized or full surface movable desks. Regardless of how you do it, almost everyone who can stand should have a standing/sitting desk that adjusts easily. It makes a big difference in your health and mood even if you rarely switch modes. Often when you need to switch you really need to switch. [0] http://www.anthro.com/products/fit-console http://www.anthro.com/products/fit-console
- pbhjpbhj 13y ago
  Off-by-one error on your URI list there ;0)>
  - joshuak 13y ago
    Haha, er trying to keep people on their toes. You win.
robomartin 13y ago
You don't really have to choose between a standing or sitting desk nor spend a ton of money on a motorized desk. Just get or build a standing height table and buy a drafting stool: http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=drafting%20stool&sprefix=drafting+stool%2Caps&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Adrafting%20stool http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3D... You can sit and you can stand. And, you get lots of permanent room under the table that you would not have if the table was adjustable. I did one of our labs this way and it was fantastic.
ClayM 13y ago
The end of last year, I had a microdiscectomy for a severely ruptured disc. L5/S1. Soon thereafter, I made the switch to the standing desk via the $22 IKEA standing desk. It's been great. Don't get me wrong, the first couple weeks sucked. Feet hurt, legs ached but eventually I adjusted. A fatigue mat helps, sometimes a wear shoes or padded sandles, sometimes barefoot. I can't go back. In fact, I tried to switch back, couldn't do it. Did it for a week, switched back to the standing desk. I keep a fairly tall stool nearby, sometimes you just gotta take a load off, but its great. Fortunately I work from home, however I might be in trouble if I have to find a new job. I recommend giving it a shot if you've considered it. $22 is a pretty low price to pay. And if those anti-sedentary guys are right, maybe you'll live longer!
nivals 13y ago
I've been standing for a year, no negative side effects to report. Initially my concentration did go down, I think it's now probably back to normal levels. One positive, if you work things other than typing it's much easier now to sketch or assemble hardware. Typing etc is about the same. I do use a foot pad and it provides a noticeable difference. One thing that was not obvious at first was that the biggest difference to foot fatigue/knots has been the type of shoe. I find that Converse 'Chucks' cause the least fatigue. Funnily enough I have the same shoes from Zara that OP has, and they were brutal on my feet in comparison to others. Also to note, I thought that standing would reduce my levels of hip, calf, and ankle tightness after workouts... that hasn't been the case.
ekianjo 13y ago
I can't share 2 years worth of experience with a standing desk, but at least 3 weeks after I built mine at home. I only use it in the evenings since at work I don't really have a choice in the first place. I was suffering from back pain, and after 3 weeks using my standing desk for a few hours every day at home, most of the back pain is gone. On top of that, I used to fall asleep while sitting in front of my computer if I stayed up too long, but now this never happens - when standing I do feel more motivation and energy to do things, and I can see I have done more things on my TO-DO list in the past 3 weeks than I expected. The only drawback is that when I feel too tired in the first place, I have no desire and energy to even stand up in the first place. But maybe that's not a bad sign. It shows I should be resting instead of using my computer.
coin 13y ago
Nice article, but pinchzoom is disabled on mobile devices. This makes it impossible to zoom in on the comments (smaller text).
brendoncrawford 13y ago
Glad to hear author has had mostly positive experiences. A couple ways to improve his ergonomics even more: 1. Eyes should face straight ahead, not down. This keeps neck in vertically aligned position 2. Elbows should be at 90 degree angle. This will reduce tension on biceps caused from elbows at an acute angle.
lizelfman 13y ago
That seals it - I need to get one of these pronto.
bdkoepke 13y ago
I hope this isn't another case of 'the suit is back': http://ajpm-online.net/article/S0749-3797(10)00412-5/abstract http://ajpm-online.net/article/S0749-3797(10)00412-5/abstrac...
lobster_johnson 13y ago
I have two colleagues who now have walking desks: Desks with a treadmill underneath it. It's certainly odd watching them in video conferences as their heads bob up and down while we're all chatting. But it seems like a great way to stay fit.
- toasterlovin 13y ago
  I don't have one, but I'm planning to build one in the near future. I've come to realize that the real problem with sitting is that it puts the body in stasis and standing doesn't really solve this.
chandraonline 13y ago
I did the standing desk for a few months and then added a treadmill and that went for another few months and then jerry-rigged by own seating on top. When I want to use the treadmill , I just move my saddle stool forward under the desk and when I am tired or need to focus switch to my saddle seating. It cost me about 200$ all told for the desk, treadmill and the saddle bar stool (craigslist + amazon). Image: http://imgur.com/xq3KkFa http://imgur.com/xq3KkFa
marshray 13y ago
He neglected to mention another effect: it also makes you two years older.
forgottenpaswrd 13y ago
Standing desk user for like 5 years or so, I also use a stool. My computers are at standing eye level, I use a high stool for myself, and a lower stool for my legs. Very important: I use plain sole slippers so my posture and muscles adapt to naked feet. Your muscles will adapt to whatever you use for hundreds of hours. If you always use shoes with heels you won't be able to use other things, and your back muscles will develop a strange posture for balancing your body, which will make your knees suffer. It is also much better for transpiration, no fungus, no odor. At first I was the only one to use slippers at work, now everybody at my place does. Over half of my time I stay on my stool, with my legs on the other stool, over half I stand up. I love it, why? My back is always straight in both cases. You became stronger, your body is activated when standing up, as there is a reflex to relax when sitting down, when you stand up your heart needs more pressure, it is the natural thing to do for humans, we are designed for that. BEWARE: If you try it, and you have trained your body to sit down for years it will take you at least 3 to 4 months for your new musculature to develop, so you need to plan a transition strategy. Buy a stool and go step by step.
- forgottenpaswrd 13y ago
  PS: Also learn good posture from a good yoga or martial arts instructor. Read books like this: http://www.amazon.com/Steps-Pain-Free-Back-Solutions-Shoulder/dp/0979303605 http://www.amazon.com/Steps-Pain-Free-Back-Solutions-Shoulde...
zurgul 13y ago
Honestly, how many of you decided to see/buy Power 20 application after reading of this article? ;)
sqqqrly 13y ago
Instead of a motorized desk, use a second cheap computer. Put it on a fixed standing desk. Learn to use tmux, screen, or remote desktop protocol. Use them to operate your real computer which is in front of your chair equipped desk.
whiskii-inc 13y ago
I am a little under a year in, biggest piece of advice is to watch your wrists. Make sure you keys are high enough to keep the discourage any pressure from leaning forward. Even more important if you use a mouse. I originally had mine about 2-3 inches too low. After two weeks - major pain.

467 points by arshadgc 13y ago

"First, what did not happen: I didn’t develop any knee, foot, back, or hip pains. I don’t feel exhausted at the end of the day or week. My productivity and ability to concentrate did not go down." Am I misunderstanding the double negatives here? Are these things that DID happen?

arshadgc 13y ago
Good point. I'll have to fix that paragraph.

jchrisa 13y ago

I've been doing the for a few months and my experience is similar. Especially the impatience with sitting thing. I can't stand car rides.

VladRussian2 13y ago

>I raised my computer 5 inches higher than when I first started because I was bending my head too far forward. My keyboard is now at chest level and my eyes are looking slightly downward at about 105º. been to chiropractor recently and he shown me X-ray of my neck. This bending forward is actually an unnatural straightening of the neck where it normally would be curved. Cause for a host of issues now and in future.

tghw 13y ago
I would be weary of putting too much credence into that particular diagnosis. Very few people have the "recommended" neck curve. For unscrupulous chiropractors, it's something they can easily point at as something that needs fixing and they'll present you with a "treatment plan" that requires regular visits over the next X months. There's almost nothing in the way of unbiased research which has shown the neck angle to be the problem they say it is.
- bollockitis 13y ago
  Possibly, but straightening of the cervical spine is a real condition and it can be treated. I know because I have it, and I was diagnosed by an orthopedic surgeon.
  - tghw 13y ago
    And if an orthopod diagnoses it, then it's probably legitimate. What I was saying is that, in my experience trying to find good chiropractors, the ones that jump straight to x-rays and neck angle are highly correlated with scams.
- robbiep 13y ago
  Agreed. The key word that should be red flagging this post is 'chiropractor'
  - VladRussian2 13y ago
    you guys have typical case of Dunning-Kruger. Do you have immediate friends or family treated by chiropractor (i have), have you seen chiropractor yourself (i have). Can you point any specific respectable publication which dismiss chiropractors as a whole or shows significant presence of "unscrupoluousness"? Until that your groundless dismissal of the whole class of professional people and their practice is just it, groundless childish dismissal.
    - robbiep 13y ago
      And I diagnose you with a severe case of confirmation bias. Start here: http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/3801081.htm http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/3801081.htm Shift over here for some overview: http://crookedtimber.org/2009/06/04/if-this-is-evidence-based-medicine-i-want-my-old-job-back/ http://crookedtimber.org/2009/06/04/if-this-is-evidence-base... Then jump into the hard science at SBM: http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/chiropractic-a-brief-overview-part-i/ http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/chiropractic-a-brief-ove... http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/chiropractic-a-brief-overview-part-ii/ http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/chiropractic-a-brief-ove... It's not acusing someone from a position of superiority if a profession has continually shown itself incapable of eliminating the pseudoscience in its practice, which is most of it. A claim could be made that Chiropractory is largely fraud based on their incredibly weak evidence base and the fact they are charging money for treatment that is no better than placebo. Have a nice day!

dabernathy89 13y ago

I'm a few days in, and my feet are pretty sore. I've been trying to get into it slowly, with sitting breaks. What has surprised me the most is that I don't feel more drained at the end of the day - if anything, I have more energy than before. edit: one negative I have noticed - which I hope goes away - is with concentration. I'm having a hard time switching between tasks. Once i'm on one, I'm fine, but for some reason my brain is resisting starting new tasks more than when I was sitting.

mkeung 13y ago
Look into getting a fatigue mat. I had the exact same issue when I started, and standing on the mat helps reduce the soreness. edit: I used http://iamnotaprogrammer.com/Ikea-Standing-desk-for-22-dollars.html http://iamnotaprogrammer.com/Ikea-Standing-desk-for-22-dolla... to get a standing desk for cheap
- dabernathy89 13y ago
  Yeah, I picked one up from Bed Bath and Beyond and it's helped a lot. First day (without it) was brutal. edit: funny, I also hacked mine together with Ikea parts. Looks pretty good too.
Pxtl 13y ago
A pneumatic drafting stool will go up to standing height. Draftsmen have been using standing-height desks and stools for ages. This is my personal approach - I can switch back and forth between standing and sitting as needed.
mason240 13y ago
I went through that too for the first couple of weeks, but it did eventually go away.

jurassic 13y ago

I've been looking into this but haven't taken the leap yet because I decided I wanted an external monitor and keyboard. A standing setup with a laptop seems less than optimal from an ergonomic point of view. Isn't it better to decouple the keyboard and monitor so that you can place the monitor and keyboard each at the optimal height? I've done some informal testing with stacked books and couldn't find a height that was comfortable for both viewing and typing on my Macbook. Comfortable typing height makes me hunch over to look at the screen.

dabernathy89 13y ago
I'm using an external mouse and keyboard with my laptop at the same level as my 2nd monitor. It works pretty well.
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mrweasel 13y ago
I'm always a bit baffled when people build something to prop up their laptop. I guess mostly because I'm an a country where you're not allow (legally) to use a laptop as a permanent workstation, unless you have an external monitor, keyboard and mouse. To have a comfortable standing position, you really need to be able to move your monitor separately from the keyboard. Most monitors doesn't really allow you to adjust their height, even iMacs just allow you to tilt the screen, which isn't what you want. If you want to switch position during the day, you either need a really good desk where you can rise the monitor separately or a monitor where the "neck" extends.
- josephpmay 13y ago
  Wait, what? Your government actually regulates what can and cannot be used as a permanent workstation? What country do you live in? How does that even work?
  - hibbelig 13y ago
    Germany here. It's a kind of a safety regulation. Think of it as a right that the employee has. The employee has to provide the equipment and supplies that you need to do your work, and equipment that prevents "injuries" (wrong term for the long term effect of bad ergonomics) is amongst the equipment you need. So if you work at a desk with a computer, you are entitled to a separate monitor and keyboard and mouse. If you don't want to use the keyboard, you can set it aside, of course. But it's there for you to use it if you like.

ancarda 13y ago

Will this work for my monitor and keyboard? I need a way to elevate my desktop as I don't have a laptop.

fzzzy 13y ago
It should be even better as the monitor can be at eye level and the keyboard and mouse can be at a comfortable height.
- emmelaich 13y ago
  Yes, I think so too. In fact I think using a laptop standing (or sitting for that matter) is less than optimum; the screen will be too low and the keyboard too high.

euroclydon 13y ago

I had a standing desk once, but after a few months, I found I had to sit to get any serious thinking done. Anyone else experienced this phenomenon?

ulisesrmzroche 13y ago
I had the same experience, though I've been trying them on-and-off for years now. Walter Murch (demi-god of film editing) has an interesting take on it. "Unlike most film editors today, Murch works standing up, comparing the process of film editing to "conducting, brain surgery and short-order cooking", since all conductors, cooks and surgeons stand when they work. In contrast, when writing, he does so lying down. His reason for this is that where editing film is an editorial process, the creation process of writing is opposite that, and so he lies down rather than sit or stand up, to separate his editing mind from his creating mind." Maybe we should refactor standing up and write code sitting down? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Murch http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Murch
- abecedarius 13y ago
  He said lying down, now sitting. I usually code lying down, myself. But I certainly don't stand to refactor; it'd be easy to try, though it seems a little out there.
  - ulisesrmzroche 13y ago
    True, thanks for catching that. I prefer to write code lying on the couch, too, though I never noticed this before. Does anyone else code lying down?
    - mkopinsky 13y ago
      How does the ergonomics of this work? The intellectual part of writing code may be improved, but physically typing the code while on the couch can't be a good thing. (Typed while laying in bed, in a way that would certainly screw up my wrists if I did this long term.)

leothekim 13y ago

I've had a herniated disk (L4-L5) for several years, and tried a lot of different things - pilates, physical therapy, epidural steroid injections, special chairs, etc. Using a standing desk has been a godsend for me. I no longer fear inducing any back spasms after prolonged sitting. That said, my feet hurt at the end of the day, and I still need to sit from time to time to take the weight off my feet. Am looking into padded shoes, but it's interesting to see that Arshad didn't need any special padding after a couple years.

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mistercow 13y ago
Padded shoes may actually be counterproductive. The problem with padding is that humans actually already have an extremely sophisticated active shock and balance system in our ankles and knees, and when you add a passive system like padding on the feet, you force that system to work harder and adjust in unnatural ways. Essentially, you're setting yourself up to always be walking on unsteady ground. So you might want to first try going barefoot for a while, and see if that helps. If you aren't accustomed to standing barefoot for long periods, it will take some time for your body to adjust, but I suspect that you will adjust faster to that than to padding.
- leothekim 13y ago
  Thanks for the suggestion! I've been wearing orthotics for a while actually, and I'm going to talk to my podiatrist to see if I still need them. Also, I'm curious if compression stockings mitigate soreness when standing for prolonged periods. I talked to a surgeon who says they've helped him his feet feel better while operating hours at a time.
  - eropple 13y ago
    I actually wear compression calf sleeves (same as I do for basketball) sometimes when working at my standing desk, and I do notice a positive difference. I do often wear a pair of padded sandals instead of just standing on the carpet, though. I have an anti-fatigue mat too, but the sandals work better.

smtddr 13y ago

Nice. My office just got these for everyone about 2 weeks ago. At first my feet were sore, but now I'm fine after about a week. Note that I already jog for 20-30mins every morning so maybe I adapted a bit quicker than some. I think the big change for me is that standing seems to reduce hunger and my tendency to snack on stuff. Also, my stomach has stopped making those gurgle-sounds that eating lunch then immediately sitting down for a hour seems to cause. I also feel more energetic. Since I'm standing, coding and listening polskastacja online radio(Google it!) I'm usually kinda dancing in place most of the day. ^_^

mistercow 13y ago
Perhaps sitting for long periods was a trigger for unhealthy snacking habits for you. That alone could actually account for a major difference in energy levels.

mistercow 13y ago

It's worth noting, for those who aren't aware, that current evidence (while scant) does not support the hypothesis that using a standing desk is healthier than using an ordinary sit-down desk. In fact, the evidence for ordinary desks being harmful is not nearly as strong as standing desk proponents would have you believe. It certainly can't be taken as a given, though, that if long sedentary periods are harmful, long periods of standing still are significantly better.

icpmacdo 13y ago
While there may not be evidence for it the amount of positve anecdotal stories seem to consistently say its better than sitting at a desk all day long.
- mistercow 13y ago
  This is unfortunately a perfect situation where anecdotes are not very valuable, as can be seen by the fact that the same pattern can be observed with obvious nonsense like hologram patches and magnetic bracelets. We see a typically less gullible set of subjects for these anecdotes, but that can unfortunately be explained entirely by the more plausible sounding hypothesis. I'll dispense with the full Bayesian treatment here, but what we have here is a case of the base rate fallacy (although not the form that is usually discussed): failing to account for the prior probability of the evidence. That is, we have some evidence, which is that the anecdotes we see are largely in favor of standing desks being helpful, and we need to account for how likely that evidence is regardless of whether standing desks are helpful. Unfortunately, as our friends with the magnetic bracelets demonstrate, that probability turns out to be very high. If something works, we see overwhelmingly positive anecdotes. If it doesn't work, we see overwhelmingly positive anecdotes. Why might this be? Well, for one thing, there is sensitivity to placebo effects, because have purely qualitative phenomena that are being reported only subjectively. But even stronger is a selection bias that has to do with people's behavior in reporting and reading. Someone is unlikely to write about their experiences publicly who tries a standing desk for a while, finds no significant benefit, and goes back to a sitting desk. She won't find it interesting to talk about, and she may also be self-conscious that she didn't do it right, and would be inviting criticism. After all "I tried X and it didn't work" is, on some level, an admission of personal failure, and people aren't particularly prone to those. And if she does write it up, her write-up isn't likely to get all that much attention because "X didn't work for me" isn't a particularly interesting story. But one who finds the standing desk to be a miracle cure for all of her problems is relatively likely to write about it, and people will take notice, because "making a simple lifestyle change improved my quality of life" is an attention getter.

tankbot 13y ago

I find it best to move between sitting/standing. I sit in the morning and stand in the afternoon. Standing in the afternoon gets/keeps circulation going and prevents that drowsy feeling that can sap productivity after work. Something else that's great to add: a bicycle. I sold my car and commute by bike to/from work about 7 miles each way. The added leg strength is amazing, not to mention it tightens your core, which helps with back pain, and there are cardio benefits, too. It's also a lot of fun. I look for excuses to ride my bike.

chaostheory 13y ago

From personal experience, standing desks are great for back problems or preventing them. However even after about four years of doing it I find that you either need a lot of padding for your heels or you need to learn to stand using the front portion of your feet. Looking at the post about the only I don't like is that Arshad's setup doesn't look ergonomic. I tend to have the keyboard about the same height as my waist with my monitor closer in height to my head. For me when I didn't have that setup, I began to have neck and wrist issues.

cromwellian 13y ago

I'm severely flat footed (wet footprint has no arch) and standing more than a few minutes starts to hurt my feet. Anyone else flat footed who tried a standing desk?

austinz 13y ago
I'm in the same boat. Buying a cushioned mat made the difference between having to sit after a few hours and being able to comfortably stand all day long.
nowarninglabel 13y ago
A colleague who is flat footed uses standing desks with us. She decided recently to get surgery done to fix that flat footed issue and so far so good.
shawnc 13y ago
I am flat footed. I bought a standing mat (one that is made for a kitchen/workshop) and then got some great shoes (ones intended for nurses and doctors). I did this about 1 week into switching to a standing desk cold turkey. I switched almost 2 years ago now (22 months ago), and sometimes I may go a day sitting at home with my laptop... and I really am happy when I get back to my standing desk at my office the next day.
- lostlogin 13y ago
  Proper shoes. Yes! I used to wear lead gowns in operating theaters, adding 20kgs to my existing 100kgs (I'm a smidge and 2m). My feet were absolute agony after each shift. Changing to good shoes and a theatre upgrade that made installed squishy Lino helped a lot (with a big downside - pushing 500kg x-ray gear was not that much easier than pushing it through sand would have been. I effectively plowed the floor every time I more it). Get good shoes!
  - protomyth 13y ago
    Any favorite brands?

simplekoala 13y ago

I have been doing this for about a month now. I am kicking myself for not having made the switch anytime sooner. Come to think of it, I feel humans are just not designed to sit for long hours in chairs. Standing position is natural. You feel free and are less constrained compared to a sitting position. Posture changes happen a lot more; And breaks you take are more active or sometimes continuous. They also become less of a chore. If there is an iota of doubt in your mind, that sitting for long hours is somehow screwing up your back then please switch to a standing desk.

fzzzy 13y ago

I've been standing since 2007 and I love it. An external monitor and keyboard setup is important for me, since the laptop keyboard and monitor are too close together to be able to both type comfortably and see the screen with my neck in a good position, but that might just be because I am very tall and have a long torso. I have arrived at a very interesting angle for my keyboard which I haven't seen elsewhere. I use the Kinesis Advantage and built a little wedge out of wood to stand it on so that the keyboard is pitched in the opposite direction than most. It is arranged to be much higher at the front than the back, almost vertical, so I can type without bending my wrists or elbows at all. Can't see the key caps in this arrangement but I can touch type with my eyes closed. I also have a huge external touchscreen monitor designed for windows 8 that I managed to get working on the mac. It's much nicer to use than a mouse or a trackpad although making extremely precise mouse movements is hard and I keep a regular mouse around to use when needed.

mistercow 13y ago
I would be very careful with that keyboard set up. It sounds very likely to cause RSI problems.
- fzzzy 13y ago
  Can you explain?
  - mistercow 13y ago
    I was searching for evidence, and it appears I may be wrong. Cornell (http://ergo.human.cornell.edu/ahtutorials/typingposture.html http://ergo.human.cornell.edu/ahtutorials/typingposture.html) is one example that seems to think your set up is better than normal.
    - fzzzy 13y ago
      Cool, thanks. That is a useful page. The reason I arrived at the setup I have is because I got RSI and first switched to a standing desk where my elbows were bent, which caused even more pain. I was forced to try different positions until I arrived at the one that I use now, in which I tried to keep my joints in as neutral a position as possible.

aliston 13y ago

Be careful with an abrupt switch to a standing desk. Essentially, you need to build up core and leg strength over time to prevent strain. I've been using a standing desk for a little over a year now and have many of the same observations as the OP. I also like to alternate between sitting and standing throughout the day to mix it up. I'm never going back. But, when you first switch, you are probably putting a lot of stress on muscles that have atrophied from sitting so much. If you switch patterns too abruptly, you're likely to end up with a muscle strain or back problems, or will start leaning on your desk, which can cause problems with wrist injuries/carpel tunnel. http://healthland.time.com/2011/04/13/the-dangers-of-sitting-at-work%E2%80%94and-standing/ http://healthland.time.com/2011/04/13/the-dangers-of-sitting...

gtaylor 13y ago
You deserve many upvotes. Couldn't agree more with both of your points. Buy a stool so you can prop up while you're switching! Alternate frequently even after that like aliston says. I switched without a chair and it was a very uncomfortable/unproductive first week. In hindsight, that was a pretty stupid thing to do, just don't make the same mistake.
w1ntermute 13y ago
> I also like to alternate between sitting and standing throughout the day to mix it up. I want to get a motorized desk and switch between sitting and standing once an hour or so - something like that seems like the optimal solution.
arshadgc 13y ago
This is a great point. I just dove in, but was in good shape to begin with, but I imagine for more sedentary people this could actually be a dangerous transition!
deleted 13y ago
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vidarh 13y ago
This is a guide that's been very popular over at r/fitness to correct "computer guy" posture: http://www.reddit.com/r/Fitness/comments/ewrr0/writeup_on_the_dreaded_anterior_pelvic_tilt_or/ http://www.reddit.com/r/Fitness/comments/ewrr0/writeup_on_th... I'm at an advanced level strength wise for overhead press, squats and bench press, and need a lot of core strength to handle my lifts, yet standing for a long time is still brutal because of my posture and lacking strength in various smaller muscles, as well as lack of flexibility in certain muscles. It's getting better quickly (I don't use a standing desk, but I do specific work to improve my posture), but even for people who think they've got a steel core after exercise might get nasty surprises if they try to stand all day.

b0rsuk 13y ago

A thought-provoking comment from the article: """In time, you will suffer from various types of pain and injuries at blood vessels. Speak with a middle-aged barber with 30 years of "standing" experience, and ask him about his legs.""" I'm actually going to ask a few barbers. I'll tell you how it went once this kind of article pops up again (and it will).

jimhefferon 13y ago
Of course a person can get support socks.
robbiep 13y ago
So standing is a rick factor for the development of varicose veins. However. If you are standing at a desk you are most likely going to be making micro changes to your stance throughout which will act as a muscular pump, returning blood to your heart and reducing the venous pressure in your legs. Surgeons for example are not at significantly higher risk than the average person for development of varicose veins because they are generally making small movements fairly consistently. A guard in a pillbox outside Windsor castle, on the other hand, would be at a higher risk because he is not supposed to be making the micromovements that will return the blood and reduce venous pressure, potentially causing valvular incompetence and dilated superficial leg veins specially if predisposed genetically. Source: med student, asked lecturers about this specifically and have talked to numerous surgeons. And as someone in the article mentioned, using compression stockings would obviate any concerns that a person may have
- mason240 13y ago
  That's why I have a bar 15 inches high that runs beneath my desk. I can put a foot up on in it and change position every 5-10 minutes.
- b0rsuk 13y ago
  I know it's a sample of 1, but the female barber I visited the last time does in fact have visible varicose veins. The male barber wasn't wearing stockings.

tvanantwerp 13y ago

If you try this, be sure you don't half-ass it. I tried a standing desk, but couldn't raise the desk I had high enough. I tried putting my mouse and keyboard on top of other objects to give extra height, but eventually gave up because it was too difficult. I stayed standing, though, and the angle I bent my wrist at for so long has seriously messed up my right wrist. Even after returning to my usual sitting desk for months, the pain hasn't gone away (it's actually gotten worse) and I'm looking for a good rheumatologist. Do not half-ass a standing desk.

pearjuice 13y ago

"Hang on, I will see if we have a model in stock" and the sales representative walks over to a near standing desk in the store with a computer connected to the inventory system only to return 5 minutes later with the information which answers my question. Funny how I have this feeling that when using a standing desk one will have the continous urge to walk away. I just fail to imagine how someone will stand the entire day behind a desk; I have actually never heard of standing desks before being used for full time operations. What if you want to take a minute of? As in just lounging back in a traditional chair and look at the screen for a while? You walk a circle? For the life of me! What do you do if you have a break? Eat whilst standing?

johnyzee 13y ago

I say this to anyone within earshot whenever this topic comes up: Get a motorized adjustable desk that you can stand or sit at. Unless you are a freak of nature, sometimes you will want or need to sit down. These desks are the norm in every office here in Denmark and I am always baffled that it is some kind of esoteric thing worthy of debate in America. Having gotten used to them at the office, I got one for my home because I could no longer bear having to sit all the time. It cost around $500, a beautiful desk with customized bezel and finish. There are many suppliers, I used this one: http://www.conset.dk http://www.conset.dk (My desk: http://imgur.com/A1eS2 http://imgur.com/A1eS2)

marknutter 13y ago
Yes! When I first started using a standing desk I found I actually got quite sick of standing for long stretches and would just end up taking my laptop over to the couch to work. I finally got a http://www.geekdesk.com http://www.geekdesk.com and I'm happy as a clam.
- simplekoala 13y ago
  Why are these things so damn expensive? Looks like they are fleecing money ( or it appears so for my cheapskate sensibilities ). Someone should start a kick-starter project to make good ones for a reasonable price.
  - lukifer 13y ago
    The nichier the market, the more price has to go up to compensate. I also doubt there's much competition in the field, other than DIY or not using a convertible desk at all.
    - stevesearer 13y ago
      There are actually more options for height adjustable desks than you might imagine. I wrote up a post a while back that listed 7, but commenters have since added quite a few more. http://officesnapshots.com/2012/08/24/7-adjustable-height-desks-that-wont-betray-and-kill-you/ http://officesnapshots.com/2012/08/24/7-adjustable-height-de...

thisjustinm 13y ago

I've been using an Ikea standing desk [1] off and on for a year and a half but most recently all day for the past two months. I definitely feel better overall (energy, alertness, etc) vs sitting. I have a trackball mouse and Kinesis Freestyle 2 keyboard in addition to a raised external monitor and laptop stand for ergonomics. The first two weeks my legs were very tired at the end of the day but now I'm used to it. I have a padded mat and use a chair to kneel on to switch up my posture and shift weight throughout the day. Now that I'm adjusted I don't think I'll ever go back to sitting. 1 - http://iamnotaprogrammer.com/Ikea-Standing-desk-for-22-dollars.html http://iamnotaprogrammer.com/Ikea-Standing-desk-for-22-dolla...

reustle 13y ago

From my experience, keep your elbows at a 90 degree angle and make sure you're looking straight ahead, or very slightly down. Also, don't listen to people who say buy some expensive adjustable desk. I wrote about building my treadmill desk and other standing desks here: http://reustle.io/blog/cant-stand-sitting http://reustle.io/blog/cant-stand-sitting

lukifer 13y ago
I'm about to put together a cheap treadmill desk. Any tips, or resources you can recommend? I'm a bit of noob at hardware hacking.
- wpietri 13y ago
  My big regret with my treadmill desk was the noise level. Definitely test anything before purchase to see if you can comfortably talk over it and think without distraction.
  - reustle 13y ago
    I think most decent quality treadmills tend to be noisy. I use noise canceling headphones to listen to music (or nothing) when I'm on the desk.
- reustle 13y ago
  Do you already have a treadmill? If not, grab whatever quality you can afford from craigslist. I didn't do any electronics hacking on mine. I took a few trips to Home Depot to buy misc hardware for the monitor mount and keyboard base. It was mostly a result of trial and error taken one piece at a time (monitor mount, then keyboard mount). Feel free to contact me directly if you want me to look over any mockups or have any other questions.

spindritf 13y ago

I have an almost identical laptop table[1]. Is it a popular design? One Chinese factory, 20 distributors all over the world kind of thing? Anyway, when I use it in a standing desk configuration, I keep it much lower, so my arms just drop onto the computer. It's rather nice but I prefer to regularly (every hour or two) switch positions -- standing desk, lie down, sit on the floor... [1] http://www.silentiumpc.com/en/atlas-nt-l10-notebook-table/?lang=en http://www.silentiumpc.com/en/atlas-nt-l10-notebook-table/?l...

Dewie 13y ago

But... how will agile teams get anything more out of standup meetings if everyone is used to standing up anyway? :/ :)

vidarh 13y ago
You switch to doing the meetings while walking up and down the stairs. Or balancing on one leg.
- dbecker 13y ago
  Or sitting. The article claims that has become uncomfortable.
- vacri 13y ago
  "From today, staff, instead of the morning 'stand-up', we will be 'legging it'"
- skeletonjelly 13y ago
  This is how they do it at the Ministry of Silly Agile

moron4hire 13y ago

I used one for about 6 months every day for about 6 hours a day before I couldn't take the pain in my lower back anymore.

pizu 13y ago

Also - your arms and wrists should really be horizontal to your elbows or near horizontal. Looking at the picture...your wrists are way too high above your elbows...this is bad and will cause the blood to flow away from your fingers.

frank_boyd 13y ago

You're doing it wrong. Working on a laptop only all day long is insane. You need to separate screen an keyboard, otherwise one of them will be at the wrong height! If you use a laptop, it means you need to add an external keyboard. Everything else makes absolutely no ergonomic sense! Example: http://www.ergotron.com/ProductsDetails/tabid/65/PRDID/320/language/en-US/Default.aspx http://www.ergotron.com/ProductsDetails/tabid/65/PRDID/320/l... You can sit and then stand up by just pulling the table up easily with one hand.

vacri 13y ago
I always find this weird, that when people start talking about office ergonomics, they so frequently ignore the laptop elephant in the room. Laptops are convenient, but they are not ergonomic. In my own office, I have to badger people to accept a monitor and separate keyboard. Usually they resist because "laptops are cool!", but after they actually try a bigger, separate screen and moveable keyboard, they would never be without them.
frank_boyd 13y ago
As for the best keyboard I've ever used: http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/freestyle2.htm http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/freestyle2.htm (Freestyle2 VIP3; forget the "Ascent")

LekkoscPiwa 13y ago

I tried it for a little over a month. Just doesn't work for me. Very bad knee pain, shoulders pain, felt not tired but kind of awkward. Felt like punishment. My fat ass prefers sitting. Period.

colmvp 13y ago

Anyone have options for people who can't stand for prolonged periods of time?

abecedarius 13y ago
I have no authority, but I suspect lying down is ergonomically better than sitting. (It does take some experimentation to find a keyboard/screen setup that works.)
pbreit 13y ago
Yes, use a high chair. Pretty much any decent one [1] will do since you aren't spending a full day in it (but get at least a decent one, not a cruddy one). 1: http://www.overstock.com/search?keywords=drafting+chair http://www.overstock.com/search?keywords=drafting+chair I far prefer a high chair to an adjustable desk. Adjustable desks involve too much of a mental decision and then a couple minutes of downtime every time. And added cost.
- Miyamoto 13y ago
  The problem with drafting chairs is tall people. I have yet to find one in the 45-50" maximum seat height range suitable for people 6 ft or taller. (Most drafting chairs extend to around 40" seat height, which is way too low for a tall person)

btbuildem 13y ago

I use a standing desk with a bar chair (?) to sit down from time to time. Been using it for a year; initially I'd get tired of standing, but with time it became easy to stand for prolonged periods of time. Here's my setup: http://i.imgur.com/PjpwQXc.jpg http://i.imgur.com/PjpwQXc.jpg (it's a little DIY :) FWIW, I've had lower back issues for a long time, and this one change seems to have improved my condition more than the multitude of exercises and treatments I've tried over the years.

breckenedge 13y ago

Anyone else out there using a balance board in addition to standing? I began using a 16" balance board at the same time as switching to a standing desk, so I cannot honestly evaluate the difference of having one or not.

Miyamoto 13y ago

What is a good stool or drafting chair for a standing desk, for a person around 6 ft? I have a standing desk but I haven't been able to find a compatible drafting chair or stool for my height. They all don't raise high enough.

playhard 13y ago

Is there a possibility of getting Varicose veins in your legs by doing this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varicose_veins http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varicose_veins

treetrouble 13y ago

What model laptop stand is he using in the picture?

therandomguy 13y ago

Doesn't this cause Varicose veins: http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/varicose-veins/DS00256 http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/varicose-veins/DS00256

auctiontheory 13y ago

I love my IKEA Jerker standing desk. IKEA no longer sells them, but you can pick one up on Craigslist for under $100.

maddddddddddddd 13y ago

amazon referral code in the product link? i guess that's one of the "tricks of the trade" HN: ADVERTISEMENT

JVIDEL 13y ago

I can testify for the back pain: I used to get almost chronic lower-back (lumbar) pain, but now that I moved to a standing desk the pain has disappeared.

Ziomislaw 13y ago

One thing which struck me as strange is the picture. I mean, don't your hands start to ache when you keep them in air without no place to rest them? (his elbows are hanging in the air, not resing on some solid surface) Personally I can't manage typing comfortably without keeping my elbows at the table.

mratzloff 13y ago

I have a GeekDesk Pro and I would highly recommend it. GeekDesk's customer service is fantastic. Incidentally, I customized mine with a custom alder wood desktop, stained a kind of cedar color. I change up standing and sitting a few times a day. You burn about 100 calories an hour just from standing, so standing for about 6 hours a day you burn an extra 600 calories. Makes a difference. Plus, much better for your posture and lower back. However, you shouldn't be looking down at your monitor. It should be at eye level. A monitor arm can help with that.

agumonkey 13y ago

At this point he's almost ready for wearable computing. Thanks to him for talking about his experience, it's an inspiration to follow the same steps.

pyrocat 13y ago

I'm surprised no one has recommended MultiTable yet. They sell a sturdy, adjustable, standing desk for under $500. The only problem (feature?) is that it doesn't come with a table top. I solved for that by buying one from IKEA for ~$50 and screwing it in. The whole setup process took about an hour and now I've got a standing desk at home! It only takes a few seconds of using the hand-crank to lower or raise it to whatever height I want, and the crank isn't even obtrusive. I recommend the desk to anyone who's looking for an adjustable standing desk but doesn't want to pay an arm and a leg for the motorized feature/power drain. edit: amazon link http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005NJUQVG http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005NJUQVG

rossjudson 13y ago

I don't know whether your standing desk experience is generally applicable, but I do know good marketing when I see it. Well-played, sir! I expect Power 20 will sell a few more units.

joshuak 13y ago

This [1] is my desk, and I love it (I actually have 2 in a half circle, one PC one Mac). I've added a second deck, and the Mac side as 2 cinema displays on arms so they can be raised to eye level when standing. Now this is a little expensive setup, but I LOVE it, and feel it was absolutely worth the investment. I've been using it for a few years now. It is not motorized, since you only lift the keyboard mouse section, and it is couter blanaced by spring to make that easy. This actually makes it very fast and easy to switch and cheaper at the same time. I strongly prefer that over motorized or full surface movable desks. Regardless of how you do it, almost everyone who can stand should have a standing/sitting desk that adjusts easily. It makes a big difference in your health and mood even if you rarely switch modes. Often when you need to switch you really need to switch. [0] http://www.anthro.com/products/fit-console http://www.anthro.com/products/fit-console

pbhjpbhj 13y ago
Off-by-one error on your URI list there ;0)>
- joshuak 13y ago
  Haha, er trying to keep people on their toes. You win.

robomartin 13y ago

You don't really have to choose between a standing or sitting desk nor spend a ton of money on a motorized desk. Just get or build a standing height table and buy a drafting stool: http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=drafting%20stool&sprefix=drafting+stool%2Caps&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Adrafting%20stool http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3D... You can sit and you can stand. And, you get lots of permanent room under the table that you would not have if the table was adjustable. I did one of our labs this way and it was fantastic.

ClayM 13y ago

The end of last year, I had a microdiscectomy for a severely ruptured disc. L5/S1. Soon thereafter, I made the switch to the standing desk via the $22 IKEA standing desk. It's been great. Don't get me wrong, the first couple weeks sucked. Feet hurt, legs ached but eventually I adjusted. A fatigue mat helps, sometimes a wear shoes or padded sandles, sometimes barefoot. I can't go back. In fact, I tried to switch back, couldn't do it. Did it for a week, switched back to the standing desk. I keep a fairly tall stool nearby, sometimes you just gotta take a load off, but its great. Fortunately I work from home, however I might be in trouble if I have to find a new job. I recommend giving it a shot if you've considered it. $22 is a pretty low price to pay. And if those anti-sedentary guys are right, maybe you'll live longer!

nivals 13y ago

I've been standing for a year, no negative side effects to report. Initially my concentration did go down, I think it's now probably back to normal levels. One positive, if you work things other than typing it's much easier now to sketch or assemble hardware. Typing etc is about the same. I do use a foot pad and it provides a noticeable difference. One thing that was not obvious at first was that the biggest difference to foot fatigue/knots has been the type of shoe. I find that Converse 'Chucks' cause the least fatigue. Funnily enough I have the same shoes from Zara that OP has, and they were brutal on my feet in comparison to others. Also to note, I thought that standing would reduce my levels of hip, calf, and ankle tightness after workouts... that hasn't been the case.

ekianjo 13y ago

I can't share 2 years worth of experience with a standing desk, but at least 3 weeks after I built mine at home. I only use it in the evenings since at work I don't really have a choice in the first place. I was suffering from back pain, and after 3 weeks using my standing desk for a few hours every day at home, most of the back pain is gone. On top of that, I used to fall asleep while sitting in front of my computer if I stayed up too long, but now this never happens - when standing I do feel more motivation and energy to do things, and I can see I have done more things on my TO-DO list in the past 3 weeks than I expected. The only drawback is that when I feel too tired in the first place, I have no desire and energy to even stand up in the first place. But maybe that's not a bad sign. It shows I should be resting instead of using my computer.

coin 13y ago

Nice article, but pinchzoom is disabled on mobile devices. This makes it impossible to zoom in on the comments (smaller text).

brendoncrawford 13y ago

Glad to hear author has had mostly positive experiences. A couple ways to improve his ergonomics even more: 1. Eyes should face straight ahead, not down. This keeps neck in vertically aligned position 2. Elbows should be at 90 degree angle. This will reduce tension on biceps caused from elbows at an acute angle.

lizelfman 13y ago

That seals it - I need to get one of these pronto.

bdkoepke 13y ago

I hope this isn't another case of 'the suit is back': http://ajpm-online.net/article/S0749-3797(10)00412-5/abstract http://ajpm-online.net/article/S0749-3797(10)00412-5/abstrac...

lobster_johnson 13y ago

I have two colleagues who now have walking desks: Desks with a treadmill underneath it. It's certainly odd watching them in video conferences as their heads bob up and down while we're all chatting. But it seems like a great way to stay fit.

toasterlovin 13y ago
I don't have one, but I'm planning to build one in the near future. I've come to realize that the real problem with sitting is that it puts the body in stasis and standing doesn't really solve this.

chandraonline 13y ago

I did the standing desk for a few months and then added a treadmill and that went for another few months and then jerry-rigged by own seating on top. When I want to use the treadmill , I just move my saddle stool forward under the desk and when I am tired or need to focus switch to my saddle seating. It cost me about 200$ all told for the desk, treadmill and the saddle bar stool (craigslist + amazon). Image: http://imgur.com/xq3KkFa http://imgur.com/xq3KkFa

marshray 13y ago

He neglected to mention another effect: it also makes you two years older.

forgottenpaswrd 13y ago

Standing desk user for like 5 years or so, I also use a stool. My computers are at standing eye level, I use a high stool for myself, and a lower stool for my legs. Very important: I use plain sole slippers so my posture and muscles adapt to naked feet. Your muscles will adapt to whatever you use for hundreds of hours. If you always use shoes with heels you won't be able to use other things, and your back muscles will develop a strange posture for balancing your body, which will make your knees suffer. It is also much better for transpiration, no fungus, no odor. At first I was the only one to use slippers at work, now everybody at my place does. Over half of my time I stay on my stool, with my legs on the other stool, over half I stand up. I love it, why? My back is always straight in both cases. You became stronger, your body is activated when standing up, as there is a reflex to relax when sitting down, when you stand up your heart needs more pressure, it is the natural thing to do for humans, we are designed for that. BEWARE: If you try it, and you have trained your body to sit down for years it will take you at least 3 to 4 months for your new musculature to develop, so you need to plan a transition strategy. Buy a stool and go step by step.

forgottenpaswrd 13y ago
PS: Also learn good posture from a good yoga or martial arts instructor. Read books like this: http://www.amazon.com/Steps-Pain-Free-Back-Solutions-Shoulder/dp/0979303605 http://www.amazon.com/Steps-Pain-Free-Back-Solutions-Shoulde...

zurgul 13y ago

Honestly, how many of you decided to see/buy Power 20 application after reading of this article? ;)

sqqqrly 13y ago

Instead of a motorized desk, use a second cheap computer. Put it on a fixed standing desk. Learn to use tmux, screen, or remote desktop protocol. Use them to operate your real computer which is in front of your chair equipped desk.

whiskii-inc 13y ago

I am a little under a year in, biggest piece of advice is to watch your wrists. Make sure you keys are high enough to keep the discourage any pressure from leaning forward. Even more important if you use a mouse. I originally had mine about 2-3 inches too low. After two weeks - major pain.