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Why was Mini USB deprecated in favor of Micro USB?
- simias 13y agoThis is a great answer, but IIRC there's an other reason to prefer micro over mini: the moving parts in the micro-USB connection are in the male plug, not the female one like the mini. Since those parts tend to break easily, it's cheaper to replace the cable rather than the smartphone/device having the female port. That being said I'm still a bit mad at Apple for ditching their old large port, only to replace it with an other proprietary standard.
- seanmcdirmid 13y agoApple's port, which doesn't have an up/down direction, is much easier to plug in than the micro USB port, which does. It is an innovation, like it or not, that USB doesn't have.
- msoad 13y agoAlthough Lightning Cable is not the first to be bidirectional I am mad at Apple for not making Lightning an open standard.
- seanmcdirmid 13y agoI'm sure they are doing this to preserve their patents, what is the point of an open standard if no one is allowed to use it? I would really love to see a magnetic bi-directional cable eventually for phones/tablets. The Surface one is OK, but it doesn't snap as nicely as I think it could.
- bashou 13y agoThen it's not an open one.
- seanmcdirmid 13y agoI don't care about open, I care about good.
- keeperofdakeys 13y agoLightning has one specific feature that allows it to easily be bidirectional. The pinout can be changed via software, to adapt to any occasion, and essentially manufacture a new plug with a firmware update. This means orientation doesn't matter (without duplicating pins). This is a bit harder with USB, which has specific purposes for each pin.
- ars 13y agoIt's not that hard to simply swap all the pins in hardware if the connector is reversed. You don't need to able to reassign every single pin to make that possible. Lightning is overdesigned which makes it expensive.
- jzwinck 13y agoYou could say that the previous iPod dock connector was over-designed. But it wasn't, because it survived many years and many devices, with only a handful in between (like some iPod nanos) not being amenable to it years after its creation. We do not yet know what fate awaits Lightning. The odds are certainly tilted against it. Not only is Android popular and universally using Micro-USB (unlike when the first iPhone came out and phones had all kinds of plugs), but "smart wires" are increasingly antiquated: if you want to pipe music from your phone to your car, wouldn't you rather use WiFi than a cord? Sure, you need to plug in to charge much of the time, but now you can hand the thing to someone in the backseat and let them change songs. And any dumb USB port will charge any phone these days, which is good enough.
- asynchronous13 13y ago> I am mad at Apple for not making Lightning an open standard. Lightning is just Apple's marketing term for Intel's Thunderbolt interface. The standard is available from Intel, and if it were not it would be more appropriate to direct your anger at Intel.
- mikeash 13y agoThunderbolt is Intel's external, hotswappable PCI-e interface found on many Apple laptops. Lightning is Apple's proprietary interface found on iOS devices. Aside from being named after different aspects of the same natural phenomenon, they have nothing in common.
- spiritplumber 13y agoThunderbolt and lightning? Very very frightening.
- asynchronous13 13y agoNot sure how I got those so thoroughly mixed up, thanks for the clarification.
- mikeash 13y agoWell, being named after the same natural phenomenon is confusing enough. I often have to stop and think which is which. It's an understandable mistake.
- nwh 13y agoNo, that's Thunderbolt. Thunderbolt is the PCI interface, Lightning is the alternate USB connector.
- sneak 13y agoLightning is not simply an alternate USB connector, or they never would have done it.
- 13y ago
- lucian1900 13y agoBut it's yet another proprietary connector. We've really had enough of those.
- seanmcdirmid 13y agoYes, let's just limit ourselves to standardized connectors, innovations sucks and we are tired of change. Now please get off my lawn. /sarcasm Just let the free market decide things like this, it is extremely efficient at that. Right now, Apple still sells loads of iPhones without using a standard connector. And frankly, I think my wife's iPhone 5 plugs in a much better way than my more standard Nokia 925 does.
- lucian1900 13y agoYes, it is a nice plug. No, it should not be proprietary. While Apple are entirely within their rights to keep it proprietary, it is in everyone else's disfavour, particularly their customers.
- claudius 13y ago> Just let the free market decide things like this, it is extremely efficient at that. Yes, it absolutely did not take an EU intervention to standardise mobile phone chargers on Micro USB, instead, the manufacturers recognised that it is a good thing to get rid off proprietary chargers as consumers all only bought the phones with the standardised chargers. Or are you saying that needing a new, different, charger for your phone is actually a good thing™?
- seanmcdirmid 13y agoBut your point is? Apple is able to satisfy this requirement easily with a cruddy adapter (the cable actually). Anyways, if apple's solution is simply better than the android micro USB solution, who wins?
- mikeash 13y agoApple wins, while the rest of us get stuck carrying around a wide variety of cables for no good reason. The argument that the free market will find a solution works when competition is allowed. It doesn't work when every company who isn't Apple is legally prohibited from adopting Apple's connector.
- simias 13y agoIt is a good innovation indeed. That being said, I'd rather deal with the minor annoyance of having to figure out which way to plug my USB cable than having to carry two sets of cables/adapters to accommodate all my devices.
- joezydeco 13y agoOn proper USB cables, it's always logo-side up, isn't it?
- simias 13y agoIt should be, unfortunately it's not always immediately obvious with all devices which side of the port is supposed to be "up".
- mitchty 13y agoIf your plug is sideways, which way is up? Therein lies the rub basically.
- rhizome 13y agoOn USB cables, yes, but there is no convention for devices. I have two phones, each of which has the micro-USB port upside-down from the other.
- reeses 13y agoYet another weapon in Logitech's arsenal of ways to create a small amount of annoyance at every opportunity. Annoying wireless and iffy non-Windows support join the pack.
- ajross 13y agoYes, but sadly one particular very large Korean manufacturer whose name begins with an S thinks that the "proper" orientation of a micro USB port places the narrow/tapered side "up" instead of "down". And they print all their cables opposite of everyone else. Sigh. But even so, there's no tactile difference. So cabling a phone in the dark (pretty routine at bedtime) is a crap shoot either way. I personally solve this with a bedside dock, but it's a legitimate fault.
- Pxtl 13y agoTo me, the biggest failing of micro-USB isn't the up/down thing, but its inability to back-power the same port that is being used as a host. That is, if I have a device with one port, I can't plug that device into a hub where it hosts devices and gets recharged at the same time. This is becoming an obvious flaw in the day of tablets-as-laptops - you can't make a "docking station" using a single USB port. Meanwhile, the iPod has been sporting docking stations that provide both audio/video out and charging since before the smartphone war.
- laumars 13y agoSure you can. USB has a dedicated pin for sending power down and it's been an integral part of the design since the start (USB 1.0). How do you think USB pen drives (et al) work when they have chips which need powering? Or USB "soundcards", wireless dongles, USB keyboards and mice? They all need powering and they all need powering while in operation. You might not be able to send higher charges while using data - I've not followed the spec that closely - but you can supply at least enough charge to keep the phone running even if you cannot recharge it. The reason you don't get docking stations for other phones is because every sodding phone puts their USB socket in a different place (and often it changes from model to model from the same manufacturer). This means whatever dock you build will automatically be fugly compared to iPhone/iPod docks because you'll need a USB cable. Which is why any such dock will either have a 3.5mm audio jack (TRS) and thus support any portable device, or use bluetooth for a wireless solution.
- simias 13y agoIsn't that limited at 0.5 amperes @5V? I believe it's not enough for all devices (or to charge them quickly enough). I believe there's a hack in the apple products that can be used to send more current through USB but it's not standard. I might be wrong though, it's been a while since I looked into that. Also, it's the reason why certain devices (notably external hard drives alimented through USB) come with two USB connectors in a Y configuration to be able to leech enough current from the host. At least that's how I think it works.
- 13y ago
- vacri 13y agoSpeaking of up/down and Apple, I saw today that Apple's ethernet ports are upside-down. They're supposed to have the contacts at the top, to avoid collection of dust when the port is not in use.
- pohl 13y agoI bet that's so the user won't need to lift the laptop to get their finger under the connector to depress the latching tab.
- vacri 13y agoPossibly, though I should note that the one I saw it on was an iMac, plenty of space all around.
- pohl 13y agoSure, but once you've chosen to orient it a certain way for a large class of devices, you had better be consistent, especially if one needs to remove it without being able to see it. The last thing you want is users complaining about how their MacBook Pro is one way and their iMac is another.
- pndmnm 13y agoInteresting, I didn't know that! I've always liked the pins-down configuration on my Macbook since in order to release the connector, the clip is on top (that is, I don't have to lift the laptop/etc in order to remove the cable). Connector orientation stuff is fascinating (my favorite being the upside-down configuration of power outlets in new buildings, apparently so that if a plug is partially pulled out, a straight metal object falling atop won't sit on live pins).
- veidr 13y agoIt's a great, great design when considered in a vacuum. Of all the cables I use (and I use many), it's the one I would choose if I could magically make that what all my devices use. But, when taken in context of the real world, where only Apple devices have this svelte and clever and proprietary, closed, licensing-hostile connector... on balance, it fucking sucks. I would like my iPhones and iPads significantly better if they just would just grow up and use micro-USB. Mini-USB almost got there, but due to the flaws detailed in the OP, couldn't really become The Standard. But Micro-USB did. Virtually everything uses it now. My bluetooth headsets, my wireless mouse (to charge), my Geiger counter, all my non-Apple phones and tablets, my pocket Wi-Fi terminals, my music players, my exercise gadgets, etc etc etc... Every time I plug in an Apple device these days, I grimace and feel like I am driving this really awesomely designed car that looks great, handles great, is really comfortable... but only runs on this special gas that I can only buy at one gas station in town, that takes holidays at random. The Lighting connector is a lot better than the gargantuan, ugly, hard to use Dock Connector of yesteryear (or even this year, if you are buying the cheap iPhone). But the time for proprietary non-standard connectors for mobile devices is past.
- eridius 13y agoIf I had to use a micro-USB charger to charge my iPhone, I would die a little inside every time I plugged it in. Every single USB connector ever is a PITA to plug in. The Lightning connector on my iPhone is amazing. I can plug it in purely by feel, in my dark bedroom after turning out the lights. I dare you to try that with a USB connector. And the damn thing feels really sturdy too. I have no problem picking up my iPhone by the cable (not that I do this regularly), but I would never trust a USB connector to keep my iPhone from falling to the floor.
- veidr 13y agoYeah, I agree, the design of it is great. Im just saying for me pretty-good-and-completely-ubiquitous beats sublime-design-but-have-to-worry-about-having-the-right-cable. It is indeed easier to plug in the Lightning phone charger in pitch black darkness. But I haven't needed to do that yet in 2013. What I have needed to do is ask a bunch of people if they happened to have an iPhone cable -- oh no, sorry, not that one, I mean the newer one, thanks anyway... no? nobody? Ok fuck it I guess I will just turn off my phone to save that last 3% for an emergency. That wouldn't happen if I just needed a standard micro-USB cable that pretty much every non-Apple device now uses.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- pbreit 13y agoFrom a user-perspective and not considering cost, Lightning is undeniably superior. With Amazon Basic and Monoprice options getting closer to $10, cost is becoming less of a factor. I would much rather use the superior option. Inserting Micro-USB many times per day is maddening. Who wants that?
- moreentropy 13y agoAnother point: AFAIK the Mico USB connector is designed so that if you apply force from the side to a plugged in connector, the plug will deliberately break and the socket/pcb will stay functional. Edit: I can't relate to those who say Mini USB is more reliable than Micro USB. I've had a lot of trouble with Mini USB connectors and especially cables, especially if I move a connected device i've had lots of short disconnects. This never happened with Micro USB. So.. go Mico USB!!1!
- ronaldx 13y agoYep, I have had several mini USB ports quickly destroy themselves, to the point that it affected my buying decisions. The accepted answer in the link perfectly explains why.
- mistercow 13y agoI only ever had one mini USB cord go bad, and that was a minor pain. But I have had the micro USB port on a cell phone become unreliable, which is insanely frustrating. The post holding the contacts no longer wants to push them against the cord, so it frequently loses the connection. I can solve the problem temporarily by pushing the post back with a small screw driver, but "temporarily" here is measured in minutes or hours.
- jlengrand 13y agosame here, I can´t charge my s+ anymore. But it is the main standard nowadays, and is really thin, so . . .
- ivix 13y agoSame here. Also I find it much more difficult to insert the micro plugs. I'd like to know the real reason for the change. After all, RJ45 plus are notoriously bad, but no one has ever changed them in decades.
- claudius 13y agoProbably because by the time it became usual to plug them in often (read: portable computers), they were already commonplace to a degree that made it impractical to replace them. And nowadays there’s Wifi/UMTS available for most such usecases – I have a docking station at home and use the Thinkpad’s internal Ethernet port maybe twice a year; mostly relying on wireless data transfers when not at home.
- sspiff 13y agoExactly the same experience here, except that I never had a mini-USB failure. After roughly 6 months of use, the USB receptacle of my LG smartphone was just not holding on to any cable anymore. I sent it back to LG, and they replaced the part containing the mirco-USB port. On an unrelated note: LG noticed that I was running a custom ROM but didn't make any problem of it, while technically they can claim that such an action voids my warranty.
- 13y ago
- devx 13y agoCan Micro-USB support USB 3.0 speeds?
- moreentropy 13y agoYes, it's this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Connector_USB_3_IMGP6033_wp_.jpg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Connector_USB_3_IMGP6033_w... The socket is compatible to normal Micro USB plugs while the plug is not.
- unwind 13y agoUSB 3.0's highest speed (termed "SuperSpeed" to easily separate it from the previous, equally clearly labelled, speed grades "LowSpeed", "FullSpeed" and "HighSpeed") requires more pins than USB 2.0 speeds, so the connectors are different. Here's a link, picture of USB 3.0 micro plug on the right: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB#Cable_plugs_.28USB_3.0.29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB#Cable_plugs_.28USB_3.0.29.
- smacktoward 13y agoIf USB 4.0 doesn't come labeled as "LudicrousSpeed" I will be severely disappointed. EDIT: For those who don't get the reference: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygE01sOhzz0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygE01sOhzz0
- officemonkey 13y agoInsaneSpeed
- mitchty 13y agoWhy not go straight to plaid? :)
- ajross 13y agoYou're getting some confusing answer. The simple answer is NO: the USB3 "superspeed" signal is carried on different pins. USB low/full/high speeds carry data in both directions on a single pair of differential wires. SuperSpeed has a separate pair for each direction, and it doesn't share anything with the existing D+/D- lines. Basically, a "USB 3" connector has two completely distinct signaling environments. It's basically two cables in a single bundle. This is in fact literally true for hubs: a "USB 3 hub" is actually implemented as two distinct electronic devices: one working on the old lines and one on the new. That said, there is an extension on the Micro B port that allows the extra SuperSpeed pins to be connected in such a way that the port remains compatible with old connectors. I've never seen one in the wild.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- bryanlarsen 13y agoI thought that another big advantage of micro USB over mini USB was that it's a lot easier to combine type A & B. The difference between A & B is most obvious in a full size USB cable. The "A" plug is the flat side that goes into your computer, and the "B" plug is the square one that goes into your device. The differentiation made a lot of sense when USB was exclusively master-slave. However, the addition of the on-the-go standard (OTG) means that things like a cell phone can function as either a master or a slave. Thus the connector on your cell phone is likely a micro-AB connector that can accept either a type-A or type-B plug so you can connect your cell phone to both computers & storage devices without requiring two different ports. However, a double check before posting indicates that a mini-AB standard does exist. So that's not the reason. I'll post anyways because I think it's useful information on its own...
- zwieback 13y agoI've had more micro-USB failures than mini but good connectors are expensive to make so part of the problem may be that micro is better in theory but harder to manufacture in practice.
- speeder 13y agoSo I am not nuts! I always wondered if something was wrong with my charging cables and USB phone cables always failing to work after only some months... So indeed, the mini and micro both have issues (thankfully the micro is "less worse" or I would be buying cables like there is no tomorrow)
- marshray 13y agoStill, that doesn't prove you're not nuts.
- snarfy 13y agoI still wish they would have standardized on 2.5mm jacks for usb. You can plug it in any direction, and you can pull a cable out of a tangle of wires without snagging due to the round shape. It is a superior connector.
- lttlrck 13y agothat would be far too easy to short out/catch fire/damage circuitry/blow a fuse.
- drone 13y agoThis x100. Never use this style of connector/jack for supplying power. The cable tip will make contact with both the jack ring and sleeve in most jacks, and the cable ring will make contact with the jack sleeve. No matter how you wire the cable/jack, you always have the high probably of short on insertion/removal.
- marshray 13y agoWith electronics on both ends, the devices could easily negotiate in which direction power should flow, how much, and detect open and short conditions.
- drone 13y agoSo, tell us how you expect this task would be achieved. (I know some possible ways, but I could just as easily say "but none are as effective as using the right cable for the task!")
- iyulaev 13y agoImportant point - back in 2007, China mandated that all cell phones be able to charge from a standardized connector [1]. The connector they chose was Micro USB. Thus regulatory concerns played no small part in the mini vs micro wars. [1] http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/tech-news/micro-usb-to-be-a-new-phone-charger-standard/ http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/tech-news/micro-usb-to-be-a...
- mwexler 13y agoI hope this doesn't start a sad trend of 'Nano USB' and 'Pico USB'.
- reddog9287 13y agohttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightning_(connector)#Reception http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightning_(connector)#Reception Please note under "Reception" about Micro USB and it being "standard". WHO'S LAUGHING NOW?!