8 ms·

White House Had Advance Notice on Heathrow Detention

208 points by throwaway_yy2Di 13y ago

RexRollman 13y ago
This whole situation is disgusting and both the US and UK are complicite in this.
- hyperventilator 13y ago
  Which countries are not complicit?
  - fleitz 13y ago
    Russia?
    - hyperventilator 13y ago
      Even Russia, who is more than happy to see the West twist in the wind, has said Snowden should stop leaking state secrets, presumably because they also don't want their secrets leaked.
      - vidarh 13y ago
        No, they said he should not "harm the US" if he was to get asylum. As Snowden had already handed his documents to others, presumably Russian authorities knew full well that making that promise would be easy for Snowden and would not make any difference, and it made it easier for Russia to appear to be taking the high road.
- alan_cx 13y ago
  As a Brit, I find it shameful. Indeed, I find it hard to accept how blatant it all is, but with seemingly little public out rage. The abuse of anti terror laws to harass people who merely embarrass a so called democratic government is truly corrupt. I mean, the police are being now asked why he was stopped under anti-terror laws, and they will abide by those self serving laws themselves by saying that they cant say why because its all top secret. Does any one really think the police will say, "we were asked to shake the guy down by the Hone Office, on behalf of Obama?" No, we'll just get the usual slight of language designed to let these people slither away. And most people will just accept it and move on. What pains me most is that I think I find the lack of public interest singularly the most worrying aspect of this whole thing. No one really cares that much at all. And then I think: well, if the majority want to sleep walk in to a future like and probably worse than this, well, fine. Just means an increase in hacker types buying "I told you so" t-shirts in a few years time. Oh, and a lot of pain for those caught up in the mean time. But who cares about those "terrorists", "pedophiles", "traitors", and "pirates" any way? I dunno. I find it most frustrating.
mrt0mat0 13y ago
Seriously though, his name is Miranda. Nobody see's the irony?
- alan_cx 13y ago
  There is both a British and US amusement/irony there.
  - nakedrobot2 13y ago
    What is the British one? (for those who don't know, the USA one is the "Miranda rights" read to anyone who is arrested)
    - Osmium 13y ago
      At a guess, I'd go with: "O, wonder! How many goodly creatures are there here! How beauteous mankind is! O brave new world, That has such people in't!" - Miranda (Act V, Scene I, The Tempest) But that's possibly a bit of a stretch here.
    - alan_cx 13y ago
      Hopefully this will be enough to convey it, hopefully there shouldn't be any permanent damage... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTf17cmPl0I http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTf17cmPl0I
- foobarbazqux 13y ago
  Some people with the first name Miranda even have the last name Law, e.g. https://www.facebook.com/miranda.law.71 https://www.facebook.com/miranda.law.71 (public profile, you don't have to sign in)
mjolk 13y ago
How would that notification go? "Hey guys, we're going to bully the boyfriend of a reporter for you. High five?"
- saraid216 13y ago
  ...it took me this long to realize "partner" was a personal relation, not a professional relation.
  - mitchty 13y ago
    To be honest it was confusing as hell because they said partner and his name is Miranda, more commonly a girls name. Seriously, boyfriend or husband, partner just sounds like some live in person or like you said business related. I'm also amused by just how hard these reporters seem to even avoid pronouns or other language that would indicate his gender. Strikes me as really really odd.
    - outside1234 13y ago
      I'm not British but I lived in London for two years and I believe this is the way the British say "significant other." Its pretty forward thinking actually, because they use it for all of the options and therefore take the stigma out of same-sex couples using it to refer to themselves.
      - scottmcf 13y ago
        It is, however, far more commonly used when referring to same-sex couples.
        epo 13y ago
        No, it's not.
    - alan_cx 13y ago
      Yep, hands up, took me a while too. I wonder if the media and/or government(s) were bending over backwards to make damn sure no one could be accused of homophobia. Dunno about the US, but in the UK, if there were the slightest smell of homophobia, a whole new can of worms would have been opened. The gay rights folk would have, rightly IMHO, exploded, with quite a lot of public support. Oddly, I reckon if this had been some how made a gay issue, the government would have been in a lot more trouble. Last thing this UK government in particular wants is any more controversy over gay rights issues. Lining it to the spying would be both explosive, and kinda 1960's traditional!!! Or perhaps some credit is due in that some parts of the media have simply grown up, and the gay part really is a non issue. Which would be a good thing.
asaarinen 13y ago
After the incident they are shrugging it off. My guess is that they were trying their luck; had they found anything on his laptop which they could use against him - like any of the leaked documents - who knows where he would be detained right now.
- rhizome 13y ago
  My guess is that it was like the bully who shoulder-checks you when you're walking by them in the hallway, and who just keeps on walking.
  - moutarde 13y ago
    I think it's like a teacher checking your bag (under the pretence of "finding drugs") in order to confiscate your camera that contains incriminating pictures of them.
    - rhizome 13y ago
      I think it's more aggressive and invasive than that. Maybe if the pictures were of the superintendent and their paramour. Maybe.
jostmey 13y ago
I don't know what is more shocking to me! That the British interrogated this man for nine hours and then STOLE his property, or that the British security forces were actually efficient enough to identify this man at the airport and then detain him.
- joezydeco 13y ago
  Miranda was flying from Berlin to Rio de Janeiro with a change of planes in London. Since you pretty much can't fly under an alias these days, it was probably pretty easy to identify him as he arrived from Berlin. The UK knew the exact seat he was sitting in.
  - jostmey 13y ago
    Yes, but first someone in the British government had to have put this man on a list. Some government official consciously come up with a list of names of people to go after.
    - temac 13y ago
      s/someone in the British government/the NSA/ ?
    - grey-area 13y ago
      It probably wasn't a UK list, might well just be a US one, but it's interesting that we have no idea what lists there are of people of interest, who makes them, or how people end up on the lists or are taken off them (if they ever are). See Laura Poitras being stopped and searched in Sarajevo based on a US watch list for example: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/18/magazine/laura-poitras-snowden.html?pagewanted=all http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/18/magazine/laura-poitras-sno... Apparently she is a high priority terrorism suspect as well.
samstave 13y ago
That's because they likely "requested" it.
- gavinlynch 13y ago
  bingo
jusben1369 13y ago
Braces for the down votes but..... a) He was his partner but he was also acting as a paid employee of the Guardian correct? I read they paid his flight at the very least. b) Assumption by said governments would be "He's traveling from Germany from Laura Poitras back to Greenwald in Brazil. He's very likely carrying highly sensitive documentation from Snowden" c) The governments still believe that is highly classified, stolen documentation. So they pull him aside to see if they can intercept it. It's not clear if they have or not - we do know they took a lot of his equipment. Now I'm not supporting what happened. I'm just trying to point out that there might be a logic to it and it's not the one that's making the rounds much of today "Oh they just targeted my boyfriend to bully/humiliate us" It sounds like to the government's he was a paid willing member potentially carrying what they believe to be stolen sensitive material and they intercepted him to get it back. Just like many other efforts in this saga the outcome is another huge PR coup for Snowden/Greenwald and yet more political pressure and controls will be brought to bare on government secrecy. EDIT: I'd point people to this new comment further down. Fascinating but not surprising: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6239847 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6239847
- Zigurd 13y ago
  How would that logic lead to detention under an anti-terrorism law?
  - jusben1369 13y ago
    It's a huge stretch of that law but not particularly new. Al Capone was finally put in jail for violations of the taxation code! It shows how creative people get when they want to get go after someone. The logic would be Snowden releases documentation that exposes methods used by the NSA to protect people from terrorism. So stopping that release reduces the chance of a terrorism attack. That would be how the mindset goes from folks who were behind targeting this detainment.
    - greenyoda 13y ago
      "Al Capone was finally put in jail for violations of the taxation code!" Except that Al Capone actually was guilty of tax code violations (he didn't report the income from his criminal enterprises), whereas David Miranda is in no way a terrorist (at least under any rational definition of terrorism).
djf1 13y ago
transcript of the daily news briefing: http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2013/08/19/transcript-white-house-comments-on-heathrow-detention/ http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2013/08/19/transcript-white-ho...
- Moral_ 13y ago
  Some of those reporters are very quick on their feet regarding the wording of their questions.

RexRollman 13y ago

This whole situation is disgusting and both the US and UK are complicite in this.

hyperventilator 13y ago
Which countries are not complicit?
- fleitz 13y ago
  Russia?
  - hyperventilator 13y ago
    Even Russia, who is more than happy to see the West twist in the wind, has said Snowden should stop leaking state secrets, presumably because they also don't want their secrets leaked.
    - vidarh 13y ago
      No, they said he should not "harm the US" if he was to get asylum. As Snowden had already handed his documents to others, presumably Russian authorities knew full well that making that promise would be easy for Snowden and would not make any difference, and it made it easier for Russia to appear to be taking the high road.
alan_cx 13y ago
As a Brit, I find it shameful. Indeed, I find it hard to accept how blatant it all is, but with seemingly little public out rage. The abuse of anti terror laws to harass people who merely embarrass a so called democratic government is truly corrupt. I mean, the police are being now asked why he was stopped under anti-terror laws, and they will abide by those self serving laws themselves by saying that they cant say why because its all top secret. Does any one really think the police will say, "we were asked to shake the guy down by the Hone Office, on behalf of Obama?" No, we'll just get the usual slight of language designed to let these people slither away. And most people will just accept it and move on. What pains me most is that I think I find the lack of public interest singularly the most worrying aspect of this whole thing. No one really cares that much at all. And then I think: well, if the majority want to sleep walk in to a future like and probably worse than this, well, fine. Just means an increase in hacker types buying "I told you so" t-shirts in a few years time. Oh, and a lot of pain for those caught up in the mean time. But who cares about those "terrorists", "pedophiles", "traitors", and "pirates" any way? I dunno. I find it most frustrating.

mrt0mat0 13y ago

Seriously though, his name is Miranda. Nobody see's the irony?

alan_cx 13y ago
There is both a British and US amusement/irony there.
- nakedrobot2 13y ago
  What is the British one? (for those who don't know, the USA one is the "Miranda rights" read to anyone who is arrested)
  - Osmium 13y ago
    At a guess, I'd go with: "O, wonder! How many goodly creatures are there here! How beauteous mankind is! O brave new world, That has such people in't!" - Miranda (Act V, Scene I, The Tempest) But that's possibly a bit of a stretch here.
  - alan_cx 13y ago
    Hopefully this will be enough to convey it, hopefully there shouldn't be any permanent damage... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTf17cmPl0I http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTf17cmPl0I
foobarbazqux 13y ago
Some people with the first name Miranda even have the last name Law, e.g. https://www.facebook.com/miranda.law.71 https://www.facebook.com/miranda.law.71 (public profile, you don't have to sign in)

mjolk 13y ago

How would that notification go? "Hey guys, we're going to bully the boyfriend of a reporter for you. High five?"

saraid216 13y ago
...it took me this long to realize "partner" was a personal relation, not a professional relation.
- mitchty 13y ago
  To be honest it was confusing as hell because they said partner and his name is Miranda, more commonly a girls name. Seriously, boyfriend or husband, partner just sounds like some live in person or like you said business related. I'm also amused by just how hard these reporters seem to even avoid pronouns or other language that would indicate his gender. Strikes me as really really odd.
  - outside1234 13y ago
    I'm not British but I lived in London for two years and I believe this is the way the British say "significant other." Its pretty forward thinking actually, because they use it for all of the options and therefore take the stigma out of same-sex couples using it to refer to themselves.
    - scottmcf 13y ago
      It is, however, far more commonly used when referring to same-sex couples.
      - epo 13y ago
        No, it's not.
  - alan_cx 13y ago
    Yep, hands up, took me a while too. I wonder if the media and/or government(s) were bending over backwards to make damn sure no one could be accused of homophobia. Dunno about the US, but in the UK, if there were the slightest smell of homophobia, a whole new can of worms would have been opened. The gay rights folk would have, rightly IMHO, exploded, with quite a lot of public support. Oddly, I reckon if this had been some how made a gay issue, the government would have been in a lot more trouble. Last thing this UK government in particular wants is any more controversy over gay rights issues. Lining it to the spying would be both explosive, and kinda 1960's traditional!!! Or perhaps some credit is due in that some parts of the media have simply grown up, and the gay part really is a non issue. Which would be a good thing.

asaarinen 13y ago

After the incident they are shrugging it off. My guess is that they were trying their luck; had they found anything on his laptop which they could use against him - like any of the leaked documents - who knows where he would be detained right now.

rhizome 13y ago
My guess is that it was like the bully who shoulder-checks you when you're walking by them in the hallway, and who just keeps on walking.
- moutarde 13y ago
  I think it's like a teacher checking your bag (under the pretence of "finding drugs") in order to confiscate your camera that contains incriminating pictures of them.
  - rhizome 13y ago
    I think it's more aggressive and invasive than that. Maybe if the pictures were of the superintendent and their paramour. Maybe.

jostmey 13y ago

I don't know what is more shocking to me! That the British interrogated this man for nine hours and then STOLE his property, or that the British security forces were actually efficient enough to identify this man at the airport and then detain him.

joezydeco 13y ago
Miranda was flying from Berlin to Rio de Janeiro with a change of planes in London. Since you pretty much can't fly under an alias these days, it was probably pretty easy to identify him as he arrived from Berlin. The UK knew the exact seat he was sitting in.
- jostmey 13y ago
  Yes, but first someone in the British government had to have put this man on a list. Some government official consciously come up with a list of names of people to go after.
  - temac 13y ago
    s/someone in the British government/the NSA/ ?
  - grey-area 13y ago
    It probably wasn't a UK list, might well just be a US one, but it's interesting that we have no idea what lists there are of people of interest, who makes them, or how people end up on the lists or are taken off them (if they ever are). See Laura Poitras being stopped and searched in Sarajevo based on a US watch list for example: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/18/magazine/laura-poitras-snowden.html?pagewanted=all http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/18/magazine/laura-poitras-sno... Apparently she is a high priority terrorism suspect as well.

samstave 13y ago

That's because they likely "requested" it.

gavinlynch 13y ago
bingo

jusben1369 13y ago

Braces for the down votes but..... a) He was his partner but he was also acting as a paid employee of the Guardian correct? I read they paid his flight at the very least. b) Assumption by said governments would be "He's traveling from Germany from Laura Poitras back to Greenwald in Brazil. He's very likely carrying highly sensitive documentation from Snowden" c) The governments still believe that is highly classified, stolen documentation. So they pull him aside to see if they can intercept it. It's not clear if they have or not - we do know they took a lot of his equipment. Now I'm not supporting what happened. I'm just trying to point out that there might be a logic to it and it's not the one that's making the rounds much of today "Oh they just targeted my boyfriend to bully/humiliate us" It sounds like to the government's he was a paid willing member potentially carrying what they believe to be stolen sensitive material and they intercepted him to get it back. Just like many other efforts in this saga the outcome is another huge PR coup for Snowden/Greenwald and yet more political pressure and controls will be brought to bare on government secrecy. EDIT: I'd point people to this new comment further down. Fascinating but not surprising: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6239847 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6239847

Zigurd 13y ago
How would that logic lead to detention under an anti-terrorism law?
- jusben1369 13y ago
  It's a huge stretch of that law but not particularly new. Al Capone was finally put in jail for violations of the taxation code! It shows how creative people get when they want to get go after someone. The logic would be Snowden releases documentation that exposes methods used by the NSA to protect people from terrorism. So stopping that release reduces the chance of a terrorism attack. That would be how the mindset goes from folks who were behind targeting this detainment.
  - greenyoda 13y ago
    "Al Capone was finally put in jail for violations of the taxation code!" Except that Al Capone actually was guilty of tax code violations (he didn't report the income from his criminal enterprises), whereas David Miranda is in no way a terrorist (at least under any rational definition of terrorism).

djf1 13y ago

transcript of the daily news briefing: http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2013/08/19/transcript-white-house-comments-on-heathrow-detention/ http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2013/08/19/transcript-white-ho...

Moral_ 13y ago
Some of those reporters are very quick on their feet regarding the wording of their questions.