7 ms·

With these kinds of things, I'm always unsure what the proper way to handle them is. A lot of smart people say to under no circumstances talk to law enforcement

With these kinds of things, I'm always unsure what the proper way to handle them is. A lot of smart people say to under no circumstances talk to law enforcement, ever. I'm sure a lot of you have seen links to that effect on HN. The main argument seems to be that anything you say to an officer of the law might be misremembered later and there is nothing you can do against that. On the other hand, in cases like this, it would seem rude and disproportionate to not even meet these fine fellows from the FBI. A related question I always had is: How often is law enforcement confronted with people that don't talk to them on general principle? Does that really make you suspicious or is it quite common?

anon1385 13y ago
>The main argument seems to be that anything you say to an officer of the law might be misremembered later and there is nothing you can do against that. There are far more reasons than just that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
click170 13y ago
>> A related question I always had is: How often is law enforcement confronted with people that don't talk to them on general principle? Does that really make you suspicious or is it quite common? I think if you answered politely and explained why you're unwilling to talk to them about their issue it wouldn't be as easy to misconstrue as suspicious. Something like "I'm sure that you have respectable intent but unfortunately the US government has demonstrated in the recent past that they will prosecute people for things they say when they speak to the authorities. If you have a business card, I would be happy to email you links to several articles detailing these prosecutions further, I hope you understand this is nothing personal." If you just say "no" and abruptly close the door, sure that might look a little bit suspicious. Also, educating them about the issues could help (send them links to media sites, never your own content). Edit: Also, "No, you can't use my bathroom." ;)
- graeme 13y ago
  That comment could read as suspicious to many people who don't distrust the government. I would check with your lawyer for appropriate boilerplate. IANAL, but I'm guessing that at the business level FBI agents are used to not being able to talk without lawyers.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
- protomyth 13y ago
  > I think if you answered politely and explained why you're unwilling to talk to them about their issue it wouldn't be as easy to misconstrue as suspicious. If they are talking to you given the time management the job requires, you are already suspicious. If there is one thing I learned from growing up on a reservation is that the only response to the FBI is "I will not talk unless my lawyer is present and s/he advises me to talk". // if a Federal Marshall wants to talk, you are screwed
  - kefka 13y ago
    What makes a federal marshal "screw-worthy"? Any law enforcement you didn't call seems to all be pretty bad.
    - protomyth 13y ago
      Their talking points are: are you X? if yes, you are under arrest else go to next person. They have a mission not an investigation.
      - kefka 13y ago
        I guess I see that more as a feature of a federal marshal. The others will chum up with you and do all sorts of tricks to 'make you talk'. If they do as you say, there's no BS like that. You're either under arrest or you aren't. And, I respect that.
bcl 13y ago
It isn't being rude when the power is all on their side. You have no idea what their real motives are or how they will use your conversation. You have no reason to believe anything they tell you. Seems like the safest action is to politely decline.
pnathan 13y ago
I think there's a place for education, so that our fine civic defenders know about the technology that runs our lives. Part of the EFF's initial creation impulse involved education of the LEO community. That said, I would be profoundly concerned as well if I got a visit out of the blue from some LEOs without some context.
eksith 13y ago
Talk to them if that's all they want to do. Be polite, truthful (without over-sharing) and record the meeting. Often times, I forget to turn off my digital voice recorder after lectures. I find recording and typing notes later to be easier than frantically jotting down notes; also even I can't read my own handwriting. If someone were to bump into me and have a chat, that's on the recording as well. Some time ago, I got a visit from two gentlemen from the FBI. They were very polite and respectful, even though my mom was very scared, they reassured her that this was just an exploratory meeting. They also prefixed my name with "Mr." which was a bit of a delight for me because I was still a teenager back then and used to "hey you". I think I probably still have their cards somewhere. Nothing really happened. They got an anonymous phone call regarding something I may have said in school and wanted to see if there was something to it. Turns out it was a panicked busybody (and this was after 9/11) and they weren't even that clear on what was said. It wasn't anything even remotely requiring a lawyer's presence.
- Radim 13y ago
  NO! Absolutely appalling advice. And dangerous. Perhaps excusable given your age and your "polite and respectful" experience, but please please be aware that following this advice could end in tragedy.
  - dylangs1030 13y ago
    What would you suggest?
    - adventured 13y ago
      It's very simple. Do not talk to them. Talk to a lawyer.
- alexholehouse 13y ago
  It wasn't anything even remotely requiring a lawyer's presence. I want to agree with you, but how do you know that (I'm making the assumption here that you're not a lawyer, which may be incorrect)? This seems like the main issue - we (as in the common, non lawyery-types) don't necessarily know what things may or may not be incriminating. I'm not trying to instill a sense of fear, and I would always cooperate with law enforcement to the best of my abilities, but not at the risk of doing or saying something which could subsequently implicate me in something which is technically illegal and could get me arrested, convicted or deported.
maratd 13y ago
> anything you say to an officer of the law might be misremembered later and there is nothing you can do against that. No. Anything you say can and will be used against you in court. If you lie about anything, even something trivial, that is a federal offense and you can go to jail for that. And many people have. It has nothing to do with mis-remembering. You have no idea why they're talking to you. It might be about someone else. It might be about you. But you can bet it's about someone or something. And something you say may incriminate either yourself or someone else. > On the other hand, in cases like this, it would seem rude and disproportionate to not even meet these fine fellows from the FBI. This is foolish. They're not there to pop in and say hello. They're doing their job and cooperating with that work is not in your self interest. > How often is law enforcement confronted with people that don't talk to them on general principle? Rarely. Most people are scared and don't shut up. However, when they do, it's almost always a lawyer and that assumption will work in your favor. > Does that really make you suspicious or is it quite common? It doesn't make you suspicious. See the above. Don't be rude or curt. Be kind, they are human after all. Just explain that you are exercising your rights and wish them a good day.
- dwild 13y ago
  Don't they need to read the miranda right before?
  - jlgaddis 13y ago
    No.
- dragonwriter 13y ago
  > This is foolish. They're not there to pop in and say hello. They're doing their job and cooperating with that work is not in your self interest. If they are investigating a crime (past or ongoing) that they believe you may have information about which has harmed, is harming, or may in the future harm your community (and, particularly, you specifically!) cooperating in their work may indeed be in your interest, whether you actually have useful information or can let them rule out that you do without raising new suspicions. Of course, you don't know that that's the case when they come and talk to you, and if they are targetting you, its not in your self interest to cooperate. But just as it an error to neglect the possibility that you might be the target, it is an error to neglect the possibility that they might be investigating something that, if there work is not done, will harm you.

anon1385 13y ago

>The main argument seems to be that anything you say to an officer of the law might be misremembered later and there is nothing you can do against that. There are far more reasons than just that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]

click170 13y ago

>> A related question I always had is: How often is law enforcement confronted with people that don't talk to them on general principle? Does that really make you suspicious or is it quite common? I think if you answered politely and explained why you're unwilling to talk to them about their issue it wouldn't be as easy to misconstrue as suspicious. Something like "I'm sure that you have respectable intent but unfortunately the US government has demonstrated in the recent past that they will prosecute people for things they say when they speak to the authorities. If you have a business card, I would be happy to email you links to several articles detailing these prosecutions further, I hope you understand this is nothing personal." If you just say "no" and abruptly close the door, sure that might look a little bit suspicious. Also, educating them about the issues could help (send them links to media sites, never your own content). Edit: Also, "No, you can't use my bathroom." ;)

graeme 13y ago
That comment could read as suspicious to many people who don't distrust the government. I would check with your lawyer for appropriate boilerplate. IANAL, but I'm guessing that at the business level FBI agents are used to not being able to talk without lawyers.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
protomyth 13y ago
> I think if you answered politely and explained why you're unwilling to talk to them about their issue it wouldn't be as easy to misconstrue as suspicious. If they are talking to you given the time management the job requires, you are already suspicious. If there is one thing I learned from growing up on a reservation is that the only response to the FBI is "I will not talk unless my lawyer is present and s/he advises me to talk". // if a Federal Marshall wants to talk, you are screwed
- kefka 13y ago
  What makes a federal marshal "screw-worthy"? Any law enforcement you didn't call seems to all be pretty bad.
  - protomyth 13y ago
    Their talking points are: are you X? if yes, you are under arrest else go to next person. They have a mission not an investigation.
    - kefka 13y ago
      I guess I see that more as a feature of a federal marshal. The others will chum up with you and do all sorts of tricks to 'make you talk'. If they do as you say, there's no BS like that. You're either under arrest or you aren't. And, I respect that.

bcl 13y ago

It isn't being rude when the power is all on their side. You have no idea what their real motives are or how they will use your conversation. You have no reason to believe anything they tell you. Seems like the safest action is to politely decline.

pnathan 13y ago

I think there's a place for education, so that our fine civic defenders know about the technology that runs our lives. Part of the EFF's initial creation impulse involved education of the LEO community. That said, I would be profoundly concerned as well if I got a visit out of the blue from some LEOs without some context.

eksith 13y ago

Talk to them if that's all they want to do. Be polite, truthful (without over-sharing) and record the meeting. Often times, I forget to turn off my digital voice recorder after lectures. I find recording and typing notes later to be easier than frantically jotting down notes; also even I can't read my own handwriting. If someone were to bump into me and have a chat, that's on the recording as well. Some time ago, I got a visit from two gentlemen from the FBI. They were very polite and respectful, even though my mom was very scared, they reassured her that this was just an exploratory meeting. They also prefixed my name with "Mr." which was a bit of a delight for me because I was still a teenager back then and used to "hey you". I think I probably still have their cards somewhere. Nothing really happened. They got an anonymous phone call regarding something I may have said in school and wanted to see if there was something to it. Turns out it was a panicked busybody (and this was after 9/11) and they weren't even that clear on what was said. It wasn't anything even remotely requiring a lawyer's presence.

Radim 13y ago
NO! Absolutely appalling advice. And dangerous. Perhaps excusable given your age and your "polite and respectful" experience, but please please be aware that following this advice could end in tragedy.
- dylangs1030 13y ago
  What would you suggest?
  - adventured 13y ago
    It's very simple. Do not talk to them. Talk to a lawyer.
alexholehouse 13y ago
It wasn't anything even remotely requiring a lawyer's presence. I want to agree with you, but how do you know that (I'm making the assumption here that you're not a lawyer, which may be incorrect)? This seems like the main issue - we (as in the common, non lawyery-types) don't necessarily know what things may or may not be incriminating. I'm not trying to instill a sense of fear, and I would always cooperate with law enforcement to the best of my abilities, but not at the risk of doing or saying something which could subsequently implicate me in something which is technically illegal and could get me arrested, convicted or deported.

maratd 13y ago

> anything you say to an officer of the law might be misremembered later and there is nothing you can do against that. No. Anything you say can and will be used against you in court. If you lie about anything, even something trivial, that is a federal offense and you can go to jail for that. And many people have. It has nothing to do with mis-remembering. You have no idea why they're talking to you. It might be about someone else. It might be about you. But you can bet it's about someone or something. And something you say may incriminate either yourself or someone else. > On the other hand, in cases like this, it would seem rude and disproportionate to not even meet these fine fellows from the FBI. This is foolish. They're not there to pop in and say hello. They're doing their job and cooperating with that work is not in your self interest. > How often is law enforcement confronted with people that don't talk to them on general principle? Rarely. Most people are scared and don't shut up. However, when they do, it's almost always a lawyer and that assumption will work in your favor. > Does that really make you suspicious or is it quite common? It doesn't make you suspicious. See the above. Don't be rude or curt. Be kind, they are human after all. Just explain that you are exercising your rights and wish them a good day.

dwild 13y ago
Don't they need to read the miranda right before?
- jlgaddis 13y ago
  No.
dragonwriter 13y ago
> This is foolish. They're not there to pop in and say hello. They're doing their job and cooperating with that work is not in your self interest. If they are investigating a crime (past or ongoing) that they believe you may have information about which has harmed, is harming, or may in the future harm your community (and, particularly, you specifically!) cooperating in their work may indeed be in your interest, whether you actually have useful information or can let them rule out that you do without raising new suspicions. Of course, you don't know that that's the case when they come and talk to you, and if they are targetting you, its not in your self interest to cooperate. But just as it an error to neglect the possibility that you might be the target, it is an error to neglect the possibility that they might be investigating something that, if there work is not done, will harm you.