18 ms·

I quit my job

289 points by guynamedloren 13y ago

bassta 13y ago
Something similar happened to me. I'm graduating in Law, but coding was always my passion - I did not want to go to university and study IT, because I always loose interest in something if I'm forced to study/do it. So I started coding five years ago as a for of relaxation. I loved it and learned all day and night. But had somehow to pay for my university, so first started freelancing. Two years ago I started part-time work for small webdesign agency. At first it was challenging, then more and more trivial tasks, almost none work... I become unproductive. Literally they were WEEKS I had nothing to do. So about two weeks ago, I quit. The first night I was thinking about how I'm going to pay for my textbooks, my rent, how I'm gonna live. Then I felt something I've almost forgotten - passion. I think passion and inspiration come in most critical moments, and especially when you got aim and you can decide yourself how to reach your goal. So an hour later, I started diving deep into NodeJS, Backbone, go over some tutorials I've been holding for months. Started writing new tutorial for my blog. Answered questions in GSAP forums. Helped people. Now I feel alive. As Max Payne said "I don't know about angels, but it's fear that gives man wings"
AdamN 13y ago
Take a sabbatical and come to Nairobi for a few months. Spend some time coding, some time meeting new people, and some time doing a walkabout: adam@kili.io
known 13y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cognitive_biases https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cognitive_biases
jrm2k6 13y ago
I really like this article, as I feel being somehow in the same position. Words chosen express totally my feelings. I'm happy to see that I am not the only one having this issue.
orestmayski 13y ago
Best of luck to you mate :)
e3pi 13y ago
Burn rate? One other possible new exciting venue? Sell the truck, get on down to the marinas, walk the docks, ask around, moorage in arrears gets good glass sailboats for the cost of getting them out of there. The Sacramento Delta, `Delta Time' might get you some free anchor out. Invent new rPi, Ardino sol-powered black boxes for mariners? You're a good writer too, L.
pknerd 13y ago
It is not uncommon that programmers get bored. The best way to overcome it to work on side/opensource projects and fill your GitHub account
guynamedloren 13y ago
If you're in a similar position and this resonates with you, do yourself a favor and just quit. Seriously. Stop waiting for things to get interesting. They won't. It's so easy to get stuck. If you're good at what you do, you'll find a job you love immediately (if that's what you're looking for). As developers, we're fortunate to be in extremely high demand. Life is too short to be bored. Work on interesting things.
- coherentpony 13y ago
  This doesn't make any sense to me. Why would you quit without another job lined up? You must have a ton of money already saved to cover the rent and feed the children. Or live with your parents. I couldn't just quit my job without having other work lined up.
  - mcv 13y ago
    > Why would you quit without another job lined up? You must have a ton of money already saved to cover the rent and feed the children. If you've got children, you hopefully also have a spouse with his/her own income. I'm fortunate that my wife makes enough to pay the entire mortgage on just her income, so my money goes mostly to child care and various extras and luxuries. With a bit of savings we can make it for quite a while. If you're maintaining a family on a single income, then yeah, that kind of step is rather irresponsible. But if you live on your own, you'll have your hands free for anything.
  - cstejerean 13y ago
    That's not a great position to be in. The company you work for can let you go at any moment whether or not you have something lined up, and if that's not something you can tolerate then you might want to start working on it (either by increasing your saving or by reducing the out of time it would take you to find another job).
    - coherentpony 13y ago
      That's the case with any job, though. There's no such thing as a 'job for life' now. No matter how much one 'works on it', job security is a myth in industry in the 21st century. When someone says 'job security', the profession I immediately jump to is a tenured professorship. And those don't exactly come by frequently.
invalidOrTaken 13y ago
With your downtime, I'd highly advise reading michaelochurch's Gervais/McLeod series. His articles are too long and he uses weird analogies, but he's onto something in terms of modern startup culture.
- monkey_slap 13y ago
  A link to the start of the series: http://michaelochurch.wordpress.com/2013/02/19/gervais-principle-questioned-macleods-hierarchy-the-technocrat-and-vc-startups/ http://michaelochurch.wordpress.com/2013/02/19/gervais-princ...
- guynamedloren 13y ago
  Neat. Bookmarked!
jjbohn 13y ago
Good stuff. Been in this position a few times and I feel for you. Glad you're in a better place. One piece of advice, if you can take a little time off between gigs, I would do it. Keep spending time doing things you want to do before jumping in with another company. Also, be picky about your next job. Now that you have some experience under your belt, you will have some options.
fixxer 13y ago
Well, I guess you can wait for the next Snowpocalypse...
jlarkin353 13y ago
Fair play, well done! Follow your dreams and the rest will look after itself.
derekp7 13y ago
Serious question -- have you taken vacations? Real vacations -- not the kind that turn into "work from home" days? And multiple days/weeks in a row? And for those stuck in a similar situation, does a 2-3 week vacation help at all? I'm finding myself in a similar situation, about not working on my own side projects enough. The only time I've got anything done personally is when I took off 2 weeks around the holidays (and since it was holiday time, I didn't feel the need to keep "checking in" to the office, as there wasn't much going on). But normally I'll only take a day or two off at a time, which doesn't seem long enough.
- guynamedloren 13y ago
  > Serious question -- have you taken vacations? Real vacations -- not the kind that turn into "work from home" days? No. Almost never. But I've thought about this extensively (before I quit as well as after), and I do regret not taking more real vacations. But something made it just feel not okay. I probably have myself to blame more than anybody, but whenever I took vacations - even weeklong vacations (which was rare), I found myself checking in often. I was always near a computer. I felt obligated, and had strong loyalty to the company and my coworkers. Everybody worked extremely hard. Days off to take care of important things, or when I just needed a break - always became 'work from home days'.
- c4n4rd 13y ago
  For me, that does the trick. When I say vacation, I mean it. Go somewhere where you do not know anyone, stay away from computers, from books that are related to technology resembling work, from thinking about solutions to problems you have left behind. Go to a country where you do not speak the language.It is amazing how refreshing this is. Try it. If you cannot afford that - I have been in that situation - take a hobby at home you have never taken before (build a table, a chair, whatever you would like to do. It also did the job for me.
wheaties 13y ago
Sounds in many ways like your management, instead of empowering you with autonomy, purpose, and control over your projects took it away. Developers should call the shots on a number of things. This doesn't always mean running to use that cool new language you've been itching to use or to pick up that piece of technology you've been dying to try, it means being able to feel like you're the one in charge of the things that you're doing. If your team's voice is no longer heard and no longer takes part in the discussion of a project until after it is decided, you're only along for the ride. It's a tricky balancing plan, to both include new ideas and have the organization solidify around common methodologies, but one that needs to be taken. Otherwise, your "boredom" becomes a moral issue and you lose the people who crave stimulation.
nathas 13y ago
I know this is _wrong_, but that's the point where I start writing side projects at work. If I'm finishing all my rote work within regular day, at previous jobs I've started working on stupid side projects. A physics engine in Lua, a maze generator in PyGame, and so on.
- sadkingbilly 13y ago
  There is a fine tactic regarding pacing yourself as a developer/engineer - and this is part of it. I think this really helps stave off boredom, especially the kind that might lead someone to want to quit. Sometimes this isn't possible, such as when you're being micromanaged, in which case, it's clear the employer has no interest in you growing your skill, learning, or becoming more valuable.
- mire 13y ago
  Careful, if things get ugly the company might end up owning anything you put work into while they were paying you.
  - hga 13y ago
    In California there's recent law that makes it clear how you can avoid this (from memory, the obvious of using your own time and resources).
    - jacalata 13y ago
      That won't help someone who said 'I write them at work'.
    - nostrademons 13y ago
      It's more complicated than that, it also has to be "not along the lines of business of your employer". That phrase can mean different things for different employers. If you work at Morgan Stanley then doing a social bookmarking tool in your spare time is probably fine, if you work at Intuit then doing an iPhone game is probably fine. If you work at Google then everything is potentially problematic, as Google has a knack for poking its head into any line of business imaginable.
cantankerous 13y ago
Seems like a legit reason to leave. Personally I would've used the position I was currently in as leverage in finding new employment, though. It seems to me that you're in a better negotiating position if you don't need the job because you already have one. I'm sure you have your reasons, though. Did you think that staying on the job while looking elsewhere would've impacted your performance? Was it personal stuff maybe?
rexreed 13y ago
Wow - unlike other commenters, I think you deserve plaudits for not letting your work define you and going after what you are passionate about and believe. Will it make you financially wealthy? Maybe not (altho many articles seem to show chasing passion does have financial reward), but it will provide satisfaction. And that's hard to buy. In fact, if you're up for some fun and continuous self-motivated challenge, I might have something for you that might be right up your alley. Not a coding thing or startup thing at all. Drop me a note if it interests you.
volume 13y ago
Sounds like the correct move in your case. Keep maximizing the value out of this decision.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
sadkingbilly 13y ago
Btw, what about health insurance? I find that to be the biggest deterrent. You're one random event away from bankruptcy.
- hga 13y ago
  If he can pay for it he has up to 18 months of COBRA coverage (you stay in the plan, but have to pay the full cost to the company).
  - brucehart 13y ago
    Be careful about this assumption if you are working at a small startup. I recently changed jobs and was not eligible for health insurance for the first month in my new job. I thought "Oh, that's fine. I'll just pay for a month of COBRA coverage." When I went to apply I was told that COBRA only applied to companies with at least 20 employees and that I should use my state's equivalent of COBRA instead. When I went to apply for that I was told that it applies to all companies, but it is not available to people who leave their job voluntarily. I ended up having to get a short term individual insurance plan instead. It's a bit of a risk because if a major issue related to a pre-existing condition flared up, I would probably not be covered. It's my understanding that when the new health care laws take effect next year, it will help absolve much of the risk that comes from using an individual insurance plan.
btipling 13y ago
Even for employees, startups are hard and take commitment. It's not for everyone, in fact it's probably not for most. People seem to have this idea of lavish Zynga style life styles. It's not. It's really really hard work. You still have to do as you're told. Everything is always going wrong. You still have to be responsible for your productivity. In fact you have to do a lot more. You cannot just hide. As startups are not anywhere near a guaranteed job, downturns are really hard on morale, but you have to stick through it. Why do you have to? Because commitment. If you aren't ready for that kind of commitment, then early stage start ups are not for you probably. As an employee you will more than likely not end up making as much as you would elsewhere in the long run. What do you get out of it then? Depends. I think it's worth it because I learn a lot and because my contributions really make a difference. Even if I don't have input in the broader direction (actually a good thing), I know my value.
- guynamedloren 13y ago
  > People seem to have this idea of lavish Zynga style life styles. It's not. It's really really hard work. Yes, I absolutely agree with you. But in this particular case, I didn't leave because it was hard. I left because it was easy. Too easy. I wasn't challenged. The work I was doing was mundane and repetitive, and I didn't feel like what I was working on was important (or fulfilling). My productivity was great. I excelled. I made an effort to contribute in every way I could. But at the end of the day, I was just another dev.
  - btipling 13y ago
    Mundane is hard, and working at a startup can require mundane work. Lots of it. Automate whatever you can whenever you have time.
    - scott_s 13y ago
      The main benefit for working at startup is supposed to be working on interesting things. The author no longer felt that he was working on interesting things. This is very different from thinking the work was too hard.
fistofjohnwayne 13y ago
To many of you: are you really letting the fear of a gap in your CV stop you from chasing your happiness? Grow up and take what you want or someone is going to take it from you.
- boredprogrammer 13y ago
  The potential gap in my mortgage payments is what keep me working in a job I hate.
  - shawabawa3 13y ago
    Don't you have any savings? If you can't afford mortgage repayments and savings, you are living above your means I plan to always have enough savings for 1 year+ of unemployment
    - boredprogrammer 13y ago
      I have approx 6 months salary saved. I used to have more, but some home emergencies meant I had to eat into some of my savings recently. The government here decided that pursuing austerity for years without end was the way forward, and began implementing all sorts of new taxes, so I get paid the same as I did 4 years ago, but bring home approx 20% less. Same government policy has forced countless local businesses to shut down, meaning that there are very few job openings (programming or otherwise) available for the last couple of years. So I could quit now, manage approx 6 months payments and then stand a very good chance of still having no job. That or stay where I am and post about how my life sucks on HN.
physcab 13y ago
It sounds like you got burnt out. When you "code until the sun comes up" you neglect basic human necessities like sleep and human contact. When you think only about the company and the product vision, you lose your sense of self. Your sense of self becomes your work. I used to work at a startup where this was the case, but I've since changed. I love my work and my co-workers and I think they all work extremely hard, but I go home every night at 6:30. I cook for myself. I take salsa lessons. I read. And I work on my own projects. Interesting work at companies comes with ebb and flows. Sometimes you work on things you don't like, sometimes you get bored, but if you keep your mind fresh and sane you'll come up with things to work on that are meaningful and interesting.
- ivanist 13y ago
  Can't emphasize this enough. I used to eat at Subway, every single day and one day I stopped going there. I have never been able to go there again. Passion does not turn you into a machine, you are still a human and your brain and body has limits.
  - ececconi 13y ago
    I did the same thing. Six months straight. I now haven't been in years.
    - ruttiger 13y ago
      to Subway?
      - ececconi 13y ago
        Yes
- vinceguidry 13y ago
  You didn't really read the post. When she started, it was like that. But eventually it turned into "just-another-9-to-5" with uninteresting problems. That's why she quit.
incision 13y ago
I can relate to this post, but I pause at the contrast between this: "I was given work to do and I did it well. The work wasn't interesting anymore, but it was easy." - "It was just so comfortable." And this: "I had plenty of ideas for apps and projects, but couldn't bring myself to build them. I was drained." I understand feeling of being drained in a job with uninteresting, but stressful or time-consuming work, but not so much in a job that sounds extremely comfortable and flexible. This combined with the "secretly hoped something horrible would happen" bit reads to me as a sort of mid-career crisis - tunnel vision seeking for some big catalyst that will make everything better, for a while at least. I expect the author is going to be just fine in any case, but I don't see this as a problem that really necessitates an all or nothing approach. I feel like the tales of quitting, working out of a car, betting the house and whatnot is overly romanticized in general and among startup culture in particular.
enraged_camel 13y ago
>>Eventually, those discussions stopped. Shots were called in private meetings and passed down. This is terrible, and would also make me want to quit. Because if you start as part of the decision making process, and over time stop being invited to those meetings, that means you are no longer trusted or important enough to have any say in those decisions. That would be insulting, to say the least.
- chiph 13y ago
  Or they bring in outsiders to be "professional managers".
- hkarthik 13y ago
  This is the difference between having your own company and working for someone else's company.
  - john_b 13y ago
    No, this is the difference between being employed by a company that values bottom-up input and being a corporate drone. If you're going to be treated like a drone you might as well get the stability and steady (as well as possibly bigger) paycheck that BigCo pays.
  - guynamedloren 13y ago
    I hate this cop out response. It's just not true. There are plenty of transparent companies that value the input of their employees and clue them in as to whats going on. There doesn't have to be a top-down decision making process that runs through the hierarchy. Especially when there are only 10 people at the company.
- MartinCron 13y ago
  Something very similar happened to me at a startup a few years ago and it took me a long time to realize what had happened and why I felt so terrible about it. Even though my title, salary, and perks were still the same, it was a de-facto demotion. Important parts of my compensation (involvement, agency, sense of ownership, diversity in work effort) were just inadvertently phased out as the company I helped grow was big enough to support product managers who could do just the most rewarding parts of my job but not actually code or anything. I think (hope) there are things that one can do to guard against this from happening, and just being aware of this phenomenon is valuable.
amirrajan 13y ago
I'm in the same boat right now. I quit my job and am on a "learning" sabbatical right now myself. Some of the reasons you stated where mine too.. maybe some of the lessons I've learned so far may help: http://amirrajan.net/meta/2013/07/14/rebooting-life/ http://amirrajan.net/meta/2013/07/14/rebooting-life/
- Jayschwa 13y ago
  You sound like me a year ago. I quit a toxic job without anything else lined up (though I had a couple years of savings to live off). I worked on open-source stuff and little side projects for about six months, but I began floundering. I wound up at https://www.hackerschool.com/ https://www.hackerschool.com/ in February, and it was exactly what I needed. Most other students were in weird transitional phases of life as well. Check it out if you start struggling by yourself. I got a new job through them, so everything fell into place in the end. Enjoy your sabbatical, and good luck!
- jlees 13y ago
  Heh. Me too. I suppose at any given time there are a certain number of people in the same boat so this shouldn't feel like so much of a coincidence. Interesting post (and fellow Crossfitter, too!). Kudos on building up that much of a savings runway, though I'm finding that some level of time pressure is helpful in driving me forward faster to find my passions. Personally, I found it hard to focus on other things outside of a demanding job. And I loved my job, so it wasn't hard to get sucked in. I had a forced leave due to an accident, and that really helped with evaluating priorities. http://jennielees.net/departing-the-mother-ship/ http://jennielees.net/departing-the-mother-ship/
jmount 13y ago
I don't think you are doing yourself a great service by playing the "it's not you, it's me" game with your ex company. This is nothing wrong with leaving after a short time and even writing about it. But significant accomplishments often take more than a year and have a lot of tedious and stressful intervals. Or to put it another way: opportunities that are certain to take less than a year and certain to not involve tedium and stress are rare.
verxile 13y ago
It's amazing how much I find myself in your story. I am too in same shoes, working at a startup and I'm so burned out that i have neglected all of my side projects due to lack of energy or modivation. I havent quit yet, but every 6 months i go through re-evaluation of where I am and where I want to go. For now until the end of year, I keep pushing hard at work hoping for the best.
KeepTalking 13y ago
A refreshing write up. I have seen that happen to myself. The motivation, the desire to pick yourself up and get to work drops. The largest factor IMO is the people you work with ie Your boss, your teammates etc. This can make it or break it. Everything else comes and goes in time slices. I do not expect work to be interesting all the time but with great co-workers I at least expect an interesting hallway conversation or the spark to a new idea. For me it was the Sr/Jr Engineer thing that killed my desire. I found that somehow my age/years of work experience came in the way by a highly regimented old world overlord. I figured it was an unhealthy environment that cared 2 hoots about what was happening in the world outside. Most of them had come from a school that thought sticking faster CPU more memory and larger disks was innovation while it was just evolution. Packed my bags and hopefully will never miss a thing :) Good luck !
bluedino 13y ago
From the first comment on the guys page: >> You haven't yet discovered that any business -- any real business that is-- is going to get to the point where you actually have to do work. Automate away everything you can, but there is still going to be work. >> If you're bored doing work, and only interested in the exciting stuff, you're never going to be happy in any job beyond 6 months or so There's a lot of truth in this. When I did network administration I would job-hop. The first 6-12 months at a place were always full of stuff to do, and the things you did made each department fall in love with you. Rebuild a server that's been flaking out for 2 years? Fix some application the other guy could never get to work? Roll-out a new system for X? Upgrade to the latest firewalls/switches/whiskerdoo? But then after that, it's like time stands still. There's nothing left to innovate, nothing exciting to do. Sure, there's stuff to do but who wants to actually do it? Maintenance is no fun. Later, doing QA at a my first software job, we had a developer with that mindset. He'd flesh out an app and use whatever the latest libraries and tools were. The first demo would amaze everyone. He'd come in late and leave early. By the time we started beta testing the product it turned into a huge mess. I took on the not-so-glamorous job of fixing the whole thing. And instead of quitting (like I wished he would), he'd stick around and the the boss would give him a new project to work on. Starting the cycle all over again...
- lotsofcows 13y ago
  From the boss's point of view, you must seem like a great team!
untog 13y ago
This is why you don't work for a startup because it's a startup. Find something that you are passionate about. Work in that area. Be it freelance, at a startup or at a larger company. Too often people stay at startups because it's the new cool, and anyone not "doing a startup" is apparently an idiot. It's very far from the truth, and my life was a lot happier once I realised that.
- MartinCron 13y ago
  For a long time I thought I wanted to work at a startup, but it turns out that what I want just sort of correlates with being a startup. As long as I can be creative and build things of value for real people while improving my skills without being micro-managed, I'm happy. Everything else is just aesthetic.
- guynamedloren 13y ago
  I wanted to work at a startup because I saw it as the fastest path to personal growth. I'm sure it's possible to grow in big companies, but I did some analysis and decided that a smaller company was the best bet for me. Small team means big responsibility and many hats. And I have to say, I learned a ton while I was there. I don't regret it for a second.
c3vin 13y ago
I want an update after 14 days.
- guynamedloren 13y ago
  Okay. Hold me to it. Seriously.
bherms 13y ago
Only in this community would a bunch of strangers give a shit that another stranger got bored at his job and is trying something new...
- Tehnix 13y ago
  Maybe because people in this community can highly relate to the subject? I know I can, for one...
peterwwillis 13y ago
If having a great job that you love and pays well were easy, everyone would be doing it. Jobs suck, unless you're lucky and a big risk pays off. And it's not burnout. Most tech jobs are just fucking boring, and nobody can get excited about technology after being mind-fucked all day by it. My suggestion is to get a non-tech job.
excitom 13y ago
Must be nice not to need to work for a living. Remind me never to hire this quitter.
- rambwerf 13y ago
  Jealous much?
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
badman_ting 13y ago
I don't understand the mindset of "oh, I'm just going to cook and do things and write some code sometimes". I mean that in an envious way -- it sounds nice. But I just can't think that way for some reason. I didn't grow up with a lot of security so not having money come in is really stressful for me, even if I have savings.
auctiontheory 13y ago
If you find yourself repeatedly bored, take the test at JOCRF.org. Best ~$700 I ever spent on my career.
- guynamedloren 13y ago
  Thanks, I'll have to check it out.
- nissimk 13y ago
  That's interesting. What did you learn about yourself from the test and what changes did you make after that?
  - auctiontheory 13y ago
    I learned that my strengths were different - almost the mirror image - of what I had imagined them to be, and the direction I needed to take was very different than my education and career to date. Briefly: more creativity, more words, not so much numbers/analytics. It was a big surprise. I have followed their advice, and while it's difficult to turn one's career on a dime, I'm happy with the results so far. What I'm doing "feels right," and I'm much better at it. I think about this every day. Your aptitude profile will be different than mine. At this point, I've referred about a dozen friends to the center. Some have got value from it, others haven't. The ones who benefited the most were those who were open to making changes. (Some people will spend $700 and then throw away results that don't fit their self-image. That's a waste.) I specifically recommend JOCRF to apparently intelligent people who have a hard time settling down in a career, or say they are bored. Perhaps they don't "know themselves" well enough - that's where the test helps.
Tehnix 13y ago
I can relate all too well. I once got hired in a startup my brother was in. I relocated to a new town (the capital), and got the chance to work in the development team with my brother and another guy I also knew very well. Things were awesome, and I couldn't be happier. After awhile though, my motivation started declining quickly, and I found it hard to get up in the morning. By that time, I had almost stopped entirely doing projects when I got home. I just didn't feel like coding in my spare time anymore. So, what went wrong? I loved my coworkers, it was exciting being in a startup, and I was somehow involved in the decision making, but, I just felt bored. Just, a complete lack of motivation. After awhile with this, I decided to quit, since I was going to start at university anyways. As the author of the post said, I also immediately felt relieved. I got my programming joy back. What I've learned from this is, that I either a) want a job were I do trivial stuff (like, working in a super market), and don't code since I prefer having a joy for coding as it is a thing I love dearly, rather than just getting payed to do it. or b) be my own boss, be it freelance web developing, or, running my own startup. When it's my goals on the line, I get much more motivated. I've had plenty of shitty jobs, and also had good jobs. This is what I've gathered from my (short) experience (I'm only 20 atm, but been working since I was young). This may also just be me, seeing as I get bored very quickly, and loose my motivation if I'm not feeling like it.
- invalidOrTaken 13y ago
  Regarding your job dichotomy: yes! My two favorite jobs ever: working at Starbucks, and freelancing. I would rent my brain out, but it's not quite under my control.
rglover 13y ago
"For the next three or six months, I'm just going to work on interesting things." Right on! Have fun :)
dools 13y ago
Man, kids in the valley gettin' paid too much.
- AshleyWysocki 13y ago
  He's from LA actually.
  - dools 13y ago
    Surely Valley is a metonym that includes LA (at least in the context of ridiculous developer salaries).
andyidsinga 13y ago
yup. congrats
millerm 13y ago
I just quit mine too. I have 5 days left. No clue as to what's next. I'm not ready to talk about it.
shawnreilly 13y ago
Just curious, what would you do if Airbnb offered you a job at this point?
- guynamedloren 13y ago
  I'd say no. I don't dislike the company nor am I bitter... I am simply no longer interested. Fwiw, when they did not hire me originally, they said they wanted to keep in touch - and they kept their word. They reached out about 6 months later, but I was already living the startup dream at that point.
thatinstant 13y ago
When I read the post, I thought the same thing... It's almost as if I felt like I was reading my own blog (if I kept one). I have always strived to find meaningful work where I feel like I can have a positive impact on the world. About 3 years ago, I took a job at a startup where I was sold on the story that it would have a meaningful impact on the health/wellness of others. I took on new roles and responsibilities easily as I really wanted the idea of the company to succeed. However, as I learn more and more about the true intentions of the founders, I realize that it has nothing to do with impacting the health and well-being of millions, but all to do with making money.
- guynamedloren 13y ago
  > However, as I learn more and more about the true intentions of the founders, I realize that it has nothing to do with impacting the health and well-being of millions, but all to do with making money. That's not a great situation to be in. Are you still working there?
  - thatinstant 13y ago
    Yes. I made a lot of sacrifices to my programming skills to take on other roles and responsibilities to move the company forward. Now, 3 years later, I'm finding it tough to leave. I wish I could just jump ship, but having bills to pay is a huge motivator to maintain the status quo.
  - lgieron 13y ago
    Isn't that the norm? I'd be interested in examples of profitable companies which put well-being of people over making money.
    - thatinstant 13y ago
      You're right... It's like asking, "what's the difference between Santa Clause, the Easter Bunny, and a for-profit company that improves the well-being of people?" ...nothing, they are all figments of our collective imaginations. (no offense to those HN readers who still believe ;-) ) I think many of the companies get started with good intentions, but we all know what the road to hell is paved with, right? What can be done to fix this?
johnathanz 13y ago
Too bad the company got bureaucratic. But it seems to be the nature of things. Startups are born, they grow, they get big, and inevitably they get boring because 1) maintaining legacy code & doing incremental changes is never as fun as green-field development 2)having customers mean proving you can be reliable, and that comes with doing hard work - providing customer support, fixing bugs. Snazzy new features give way to doing what the market wants. I'm glad you made the leap to quit though, because it does sound like you were genuinely bored. While I agree a life guided by curiosity and experiments is the right pursuit, I personally don't think that luxury will always be available to us ALL the time. Sometimes, we just have to put up with doing boring tasks...
prtksxna 13y ago
It feels great to feel what you are feeling. I recently graduated out of a college that I didn't like too much and now I've moved cities and working on stuff that I really want to. I guess breaks like this are necessary to keep the mind fresh.
iblaine 13y ago
Wow, taking hipster to a whole new level. Working at a startup, having catered lunches & the latest mac is too much so he quit.
dougabug 13y ago
One of the most liberating things I ever did was quit my job and go travel for a couple years. I'd do it again, but I'd like to keep my home on the Peninsula. Thiel should pay people to quit their jobs. The creative energy would be incredible.

289 points by guynamedloren 13y ago

Something similar happened to me. I'm graduating in Law, but coding was always my passion - I did not want to go to university and study IT, because I always loose interest in something if I'm forced to study/do it. So I started coding five years ago as a for of relaxation. I loved it and learned all day and night. But had somehow to pay for my university, so first started freelancing. Two years ago I started part-time work for small webdesign agency. At first it was challenging, then more and more trivial tasks, almost none work... I become unproductive. Literally they were WEEKS I had nothing to do. So about two weeks ago, I quit. The first night I was thinking about how I'm going to pay for my textbooks, my rent, how I'm gonna live. Then I felt something I've almost forgotten - passion. I think passion and inspiration come in most critical moments, and especially when you got aim and you can decide yourself how to reach your goal. So an hour later, I started diving deep into NodeJS, Backbone, go over some tutorials I've been holding for months. Started writing new tutorial for my blog. Answered questions in GSAP forums. Helped people. Now I feel alive. As Max Payne said "I don't know about angels, but it's fear that gives man wings"

AdamN 13y ago

Take a sabbatical and come to Nairobi for a few months. Spend some time coding, some time meeting new people, and some time doing a walkabout: adam@kili.io

known 13y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cognitive_biases https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cognitive_biases

jrm2k6 13y ago

I really like this article, as I feel being somehow in the same position. Words chosen express totally my feelings. I'm happy to see that I am not the only one having this issue.

orestmayski 13y ago

Best of luck to you mate :)

e3pi 13y ago

Burn rate? One other possible new exciting venue? Sell the truck, get on down to the marinas, walk the docks, ask around, moorage in arrears gets good glass sailboats for the cost of getting them out of there. The Sacramento Delta, `Delta Time' might get you some free anchor out. Invent new rPi, Ardino sol-powered black boxes for mariners? You're a good writer too, L.

pknerd 13y ago

It is not uncommon that programmers get bored. The best way to overcome it to work on side/opensource projects and fill your GitHub account

guynamedloren 13y ago

If you're in a similar position and this resonates with you, do yourself a favor and just quit. Seriously. Stop waiting for things to get interesting. They won't. It's so easy to get stuck. If you're good at what you do, you'll find a job you love immediately (if that's what you're looking for). As developers, we're fortunate to be in extremely high demand. Life is too short to be bored. Work on interesting things.

coherentpony 13y ago
This doesn't make any sense to me. Why would you quit without another job lined up? You must have a ton of money already saved to cover the rent and feed the children. Or live with your parents. I couldn't just quit my job without having other work lined up.
- mcv 13y ago
  > Why would you quit without another job lined up? You must have a ton of money already saved to cover the rent and feed the children. If you've got children, you hopefully also have a spouse with his/her own income. I'm fortunate that my wife makes enough to pay the entire mortgage on just her income, so my money goes mostly to child care and various extras and luxuries. With a bit of savings we can make it for quite a while. If you're maintaining a family on a single income, then yeah, that kind of step is rather irresponsible. But if you live on your own, you'll have your hands free for anything.
- cstejerean 13y ago
  That's not a great position to be in. The company you work for can let you go at any moment whether or not you have something lined up, and if that's not something you can tolerate then you might want to start working on it (either by increasing your saving or by reducing the out of time it would take you to find another job).
  - coherentpony 13y ago
    That's the case with any job, though. There's no such thing as a 'job for life' now. No matter how much one 'works on it', job security is a myth in industry in the 21st century. When someone says 'job security', the profession I immediately jump to is a tenured professorship. And those don't exactly come by frequently.

invalidOrTaken 13y ago

With your downtime, I'd highly advise reading michaelochurch's Gervais/McLeod series. His articles are too long and he uses weird analogies, but he's onto something in terms of modern startup culture.

monkey_slap 13y ago
A link to the start of the series: http://michaelochurch.wordpress.com/2013/02/19/gervais-principle-questioned-macleods-hierarchy-the-technocrat-and-vc-startups/ http://michaelochurch.wordpress.com/2013/02/19/gervais-princ...
guynamedloren 13y ago
Neat. Bookmarked!

jjbohn 13y ago

Good stuff. Been in this position a few times and I feel for you. Glad you're in a better place. One piece of advice, if you can take a little time off between gigs, I would do it. Keep spending time doing things you want to do before jumping in with another company. Also, be picky about your next job. Now that you have some experience under your belt, you will have some options.

fixxer 13y ago

Well, I guess you can wait for the next Snowpocalypse...

jlarkin353 13y ago

Fair play, well done! Follow your dreams and the rest will look after itself.

derekp7 13y ago

Serious question -- have you taken vacations? Real vacations -- not the kind that turn into "work from home" days? And multiple days/weeks in a row? And for those stuck in a similar situation, does a 2-3 week vacation help at all? I'm finding myself in a similar situation, about not working on my own side projects enough. The only time I've got anything done personally is when I took off 2 weeks around the holidays (and since it was holiday time, I didn't feel the need to keep "checking in" to the office, as there wasn't much going on). But normally I'll only take a day or two off at a time, which doesn't seem long enough.

guynamedloren 13y ago
> Serious question -- have you taken vacations? Real vacations -- not the kind that turn into "work from home" days? No. Almost never. But I've thought about this extensively (before I quit as well as after), and I do regret not taking more real vacations. But something made it just feel not okay. I probably have myself to blame more than anybody, but whenever I took vacations - even weeklong vacations (which was rare), I found myself checking in often. I was always near a computer. I felt obligated, and had strong loyalty to the company and my coworkers. Everybody worked extremely hard. Days off to take care of important things, or when I just needed a break - always became 'work from home days'.
c4n4rd 13y ago
For me, that does the trick. When I say vacation, I mean it. Go somewhere where you do not know anyone, stay away from computers, from books that are related to technology resembling work, from thinking about solutions to problems you have left behind. Go to a country where you do not speak the language.It is amazing how refreshing this is. Try it. If you cannot afford that - I have been in that situation - take a hobby at home you have never taken before (build a table, a chair, whatever you would like to do. It also did the job for me.

wheaties 13y ago

Sounds in many ways like your management, instead of empowering you with autonomy, purpose, and control over your projects took it away. Developers should call the shots on a number of things. This doesn't always mean running to use that cool new language you've been itching to use or to pick up that piece of technology you've been dying to try, it means being able to feel like you're the one in charge of the things that you're doing. If your team's voice is no longer heard and no longer takes part in the discussion of a project until after it is decided, you're only along for the ride. It's a tricky balancing plan, to both include new ideas and have the organization solidify around common methodologies, but one that needs to be taken. Otherwise, your "boredom" becomes a moral issue and you lose the people who crave stimulation.

nathas 13y ago

I know this is _wrong_, but that's the point where I start writing side projects at work. If I'm finishing all my rote work within regular day, at previous jobs I've started working on stupid side projects. A physics engine in Lua, a maze generator in PyGame, and so on.

sadkingbilly 13y ago
There is a fine tactic regarding pacing yourself as a developer/engineer - and this is part of it. I think this really helps stave off boredom, especially the kind that might lead someone to want to quit. Sometimes this isn't possible, such as when you're being micromanaged, in which case, it's clear the employer has no interest in you growing your skill, learning, or becoming more valuable.
mire 13y ago
Careful, if things get ugly the company might end up owning anything you put work into while they were paying you.
- hga 13y ago
  In California there's recent law that makes it clear how you can avoid this (from memory, the obvious of using your own time and resources).
  - jacalata 13y ago
    That won't help someone who said 'I write them at work'.
  - nostrademons 13y ago
    It's more complicated than that, it also has to be "not along the lines of business of your employer". That phrase can mean different things for different employers. If you work at Morgan Stanley then doing a social bookmarking tool in your spare time is probably fine, if you work at Intuit then doing an iPhone game is probably fine. If you work at Google then everything is potentially problematic, as Google has a knack for poking its head into any line of business imaginable.

cantankerous 13y ago

Seems like a legit reason to leave. Personally I would've used the position I was currently in as leverage in finding new employment, though. It seems to me that you're in a better negotiating position if you don't need the job because you already have one. I'm sure you have your reasons, though. Did you think that staying on the job while looking elsewhere would've impacted your performance? Was it personal stuff maybe?

rexreed 13y ago

Wow - unlike other commenters, I think you deserve plaudits for not letting your work define you and going after what you are passionate about and believe. Will it make you financially wealthy? Maybe not (altho many articles seem to show chasing passion does have financial reward), but it will provide satisfaction. And that's hard to buy. In fact, if you're up for some fun and continuous self-motivated challenge, I might have something for you that might be right up your alley. Not a coding thing or startup thing at all. Drop me a note if it interests you.

volume 13y ago

Sounds like the correct move in your case. Keep maximizing the value out of this decision.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

sadkingbilly 13y ago

Btw, what about health insurance? I find that to be the biggest deterrent. You're one random event away from bankruptcy.

hga 13y ago
If he can pay for it he has up to 18 months of COBRA coverage (you stay in the plan, but have to pay the full cost to the company).
- brucehart 13y ago
  Be careful about this assumption if you are working at a small startup. I recently changed jobs and was not eligible for health insurance for the first month in my new job. I thought "Oh, that's fine. I'll just pay for a month of COBRA coverage." When I went to apply I was told that COBRA only applied to companies with at least 20 employees and that I should use my state's equivalent of COBRA instead. When I went to apply for that I was told that it applies to all companies, but it is not available to people who leave their job voluntarily. I ended up having to get a short term individual insurance plan instead. It's a bit of a risk because if a major issue related to a pre-existing condition flared up, I would probably not be covered. It's my understanding that when the new health care laws take effect next year, it will help absolve much of the risk that comes from using an individual insurance plan.

btipling 13y ago

Even for employees, startups are hard and take commitment. It's not for everyone, in fact it's probably not for most. People seem to have this idea of lavish Zynga style life styles. It's not. It's really really hard work. You still have to do as you're told. Everything is always going wrong. You still have to be responsible for your productivity. In fact you have to do a lot more. You cannot just hide. As startups are not anywhere near a guaranteed job, downturns are really hard on morale, but you have to stick through it. Why do you have to? Because commitment. If you aren't ready for that kind of commitment, then early stage start ups are not for you probably. As an employee you will more than likely not end up making as much as you would elsewhere in the long run. What do you get out of it then? Depends. I think it's worth it because I learn a lot and because my contributions really make a difference. Even if I don't have input in the broader direction (actually a good thing), I know my value.

guynamedloren 13y ago
> People seem to have this idea of lavish Zynga style life styles. It's not. It's really really hard work. Yes, I absolutely agree with you. But in this particular case, I didn't leave because it was hard. I left because it was easy. Too easy. I wasn't challenged. The work I was doing was mundane and repetitive, and I didn't feel like what I was working on was important (or fulfilling). My productivity was great. I excelled. I made an effort to contribute in every way I could. But at the end of the day, I was just another dev.
- btipling 13y ago
  Mundane is hard, and working at a startup can require mundane work. Lots of it. Automate whatever you can whenever you have time.
  - scott_s 13y ago
    The main benefit for working at startup is supposed to be working on interesting things. The author no longer felt that he was working on interesting things. This is very different from thinking the work was too hard.

fistofjohnwayne 13y ago

To many of you: are you really letting the fear of a gap in your CV stop you from chasing your happiness? Grow up and take what you want or someone is going to take it from you.

boredprogrammer 13y ago
The potential gap in my mortgage payments is what keep me working in a job I hate.
- shawabawa3 13y ago
  Don't you have any savings? If you can't afford mortgage repayments and savings, you are living above your means I plan to always have enough savings for 1 year+ of unemployment
  - boredprogrammer 13y ago
    I have approx 6 months salary saved. I used to have more, but some home emergencies meant I had to eat into some of my savings recently. The government here decided that pursuing austerity for years without end was the way forward, and began implementing all sorts of new taxes, so I get paid the same as I did 4 years ago, but bring home approx 20% less. Same government policy has forced countless local businesses to shut down, meaning that there are very few job openings (programming or otherwise) available for the last couple of years. So I could quit now, manage approx 6 months payments and then stand a very good chance of still having no job. That or stay where I am and post about how my life sucks on HN.

physcab 13y ago

It sounds like you got burnt out. When you "code until the sun comes up" you neglect basic human necessities like sleep and human contact. When you think only about the company and the product vision, you lose your sense of self. Your sense of self becomes your work. I used to work at a startup where this was the case, but I've since changed. I love my work and my co-workers and I think they all work extremely hard, but I go home every night at 6:30. I cook for myself. I take salsa lessons. I read. And I work on my own projects. Interesting work at companies comes with ebb and flows. Sometimes you work on things you don't like, sometimes you get bored, but if you keep your mind fresh and sane you'll come up with things to work on that are meaningful and interesting.

ivanist 13y ago
Can't emphasize this enough. I used to eat at Subway, every single day and one day I stopped going there. I have never been able to go there again. Passion does not turn you into a machine, you are still a human and your brain and body has limits.
- ececconi 13y ago
  I did the same thing. Six months straight. I now haven't been in years.
  - ruttiger 13y ago
    to Subway?
    - ececconi 13y ago
      Yes
vinceguidry 13y ago
You didn't really read the post. When she started, it was like that. But eventually it turned into "just-another-9-to-5" with uninteresting problems. That's why she quit.

incision 13y ago

I can relate to this post, but I pause at the contrast between this: "I was given work to do and I did it well. The work wasn't interesting anymore, but it was easy." - "It was just so comfortable." And this: "I had plenty of ideas for apps and projects, but couldn't bring myself to build them. I was drained." I understand feeling of being drained in a job with uninteresting, but stressful or time-consuming work, but not so much in a job that sounds extremely comfortable and flexible. This combined with the "secretly hoped something horrible would happen" bit reads to me as a sort of mid-career crisis - tunnel vision seeking for some big catalyst that will make everything better, for a while at least. I expect the author is going to be just fine in any case, but I don't see this as a problem that really necessitates an all or nothing approach. I feel like the tales of quitting, working out of a car, betting the house and whatnot is overly romanticized in general and among startup culture in particular.

enraged_camel 13y ago

>>Eventually, those discussions stopped. Shots were called in private meetings and passed down. This is terrible, and would also make me want to quit. Because if you start as part of the decision making process, and over time stop being invited to those meetings, that means you are no longer trusted or important enough to have any say in those decisions. That would be insulting, to say the least.

chiph 13y ago
Or they bring in outsiders to be "professional managers".
hkarthik 13y ago
This is the difference between having your own company and working for someone else's company.
- john_b 13y ago
  No, this is the difference between being employed by a company that values bottom-up input and being a corporate drone. If you're going to be treated like a drone you might as well get the stability and steady (as well as possibly bigger) paycheck that BigCo pays.
- guynamedloren 13y ago
  I hate this cop out response. It's just not true. There are plenty of transparent companies that value the input of their employees and clue them in as to whats going on. There doesn't have to be a top-down decision making process that runs through the hierarchy. Especially when there are only 10 people at the company.
MartinCron 13y ago
Something very similar happened to me at a startup a few years ago and it took me a long time to realize what had happened and why I felt so terrible about it. Even though my title, salary, and perks were still the same, it was a de-facto demotion. Important parts of my compensation (involvement, agency, sense of ownership, diversity in work effort) were just inadvertently phased out as the company I helped grow was big enough to support product managers who could do just the most rewarding parts of my job but not actually code or anything. I think (hope) there are things that one can do to guard against this from happening, and just being aware of this phenomenon is valuable.

amirrajan 13y ago

I'm in the same boat right now. I quit my job and am on a "learning" sabbatical right now myself. Some of the reasons you stated where mine too.. maybe some of the lessons I've learned so far may help: http://amirrajan.net/meta/2013/07/14/rebooting-life/ http://amirrajan.net/meta/2013/07/14/rebooting-life/

Jayschwa 13y ago
You sound like me a year ago. I quit a toxic job without anything else lined up (though I had a couple years of savings to live off). I worked on open-source stuff and little side projects for about six months, but I began floundering. I wound up at https://www.hackerschool.com/ https://www.hackerschool.com/ in February, and it was exactly what I needed. Most other students were in weird transitional phases of life as well. Check it out if you start struggling by yourself. I got a new job through them, so everything fell into place in the end. Enjoy your sabbatical, and good luck!
jlees 13y ago
Heh. Me too. I suppose at any given time there are a certain number of people in the same boat so this shouldn't feel like so much of a coincidence. Interesting post (and fellow Crossfitter, too!). Kudos on building up that much of a savings runway, though I'm finding that some level of time pressure is helpful in driving me forward faster to find my passions. Personally, I found it hard to focus on other things outside of a demanding job. And I loved my job, so it wasn't hard to get sucked in. I had a forced leave due to an accident, and that really helped with evaluating priorities. http://jennielees.net/departing-the-mother-ship/ http://jennielees.net/departing-the-mother-ship/

jmount 13y ago

I don't think you are doing yourself a great service by playing the "it's not you, it's me" game with your ex company. This is nothing wrong with leaving after a short time and even writing about it. But significant accomplishments often take more than a year and have a lot of tedious and stressful intervals. Or to put it another way: opportunities that are certain to take less than a year and certain to not involve tedium and stress are rare.

verxile 13y ago

It's amazing how much I find myself in your story. I am too in same shoes, working at a startup and I'm so burned out that i have neglected all of my side projects due to lack of energy or modivation. I havent quit yet, but every 6 months i go through re-evaluation of where I am and where I want to go. For now until the end of year, I keep pushing hard at work hoping for the best.

KeepTalking 13y ago

A refreshing write up. I have seen that happen to myself. The motivation, the desire to pick yourself up and get to work drops. The largest factor IMO is the people you work with ie Your boss, your teammates etc. This can make it or break it. Everything else comes and goes in time slices. I do not expect work to be interesting all the time but with great co-workers I at least expect an interesting hallway conversation or the spark to a new idea. For me it was the Sr/Jr Engineer thing that killed my desire. I found that somehow my age/years of work experience came in the way by a highly regimented old world overlord. I figured it was an unhealthy environment that cared 2 hoots about what was happening in the world outside. Most of them had come from a school that thought sticking faster CPU more memory and larger disks was innovation while it was just evolution. Packed my bags and hopefully will never miss a thing :) Good luck !

bluedino 13y ago

From the first comment on the guys page: >> You haven't yet discovered that any business -- any real business that is-- is going to get to the point where you actually have to do work. Automate away everything you can, but there is still going to be work. >> If you're bored doing work, and only interested in the exciting stuff, you're never going to be happy in any job beyond 6 months or so There's a lot of truth in this. When I did network administration I would job-hop. The first 6-12 months at a place were always full of stuff to do, and the things you did made each department fall in love with you. Rebuild a server that's been flaking out for 2 years? Fix some application the other guy could never get to work? Roll-out a new system for X? Upgrade to the latest firewalls/switches/whiskerdoo? But then after that, it's like time stands still. There's nothing left to innovate, nothing exciting to do. Sure, there's stuff to do but who wants to actually do it? Maintenance is no fun. Later, doing QA at a my first software job, we had a developer with that mindset. He'd flesh out an app and use whatever the latest libraries and tools were. The first demo would amaze everyone. He'd come in late and leave early. By the time we started beta testing the product it turned into a huge mess. I took on the not-so-glamorous job of fixing the whole thing. And instead of quitting (like I wished he would), he'd stick around and the the boss would give him a new project to work on. Starting the cycle all over again...

lotsofcows 13y ago
From the boss's point of view, you must seem like a great team!

untog 13y ago

This is why you don't work for a startup because it's a startup. Find something that you are passionate about. Work in that area. Be it freelance, at a startup or at a larger company. Too often people stay at startups because it's the new cool, and anyone not "doing a startup" is apparently an idiot. It's very far from the truth, and my life was a lot happier once I realised that.

MartinCron 13y ago
For a long time I thought I wanted to work at a startup, but it turns out that what I want just sort of correlates with being a startup. As long as I can be creative and build things of value for real people while improving my skills without being micro-managed, I'm happy. Everything else is just aesthetic.
guynamedloren 13y ago
I wanted to work at a startup because I saw it as the fastest path to personal growth. I'm sure it's possible to grow in big companies, but I did some analysis and decided that a smaller company was the best bet for me. Small team means big responsibility and many hats. And I have to say, I learned a ton while I was there. I don't regret it for a second.

c3vin 13y ago

I want an update after 14 days.

guynamedloren 13y ago
Okay. Hold me to it. Seriously.

bherms 13y ago

Only in this community would a bunch of strangers give a shit that another stranger got bored at his job and is trying something new...

Tehnix 13y ago
Maybe because people in this community can highly relate to the subject? I know I can, for one...

peterwwillis 13y ago

If having a great job that you love and pays well were easy, everyone would be doing it. Jobs suck, unless you're lucky and a big risk pays off. And it's not burnout. Most tech jobs are just fucking boring, and nobody can get excited about technology after being mind-fucked all day by it. My suggestion is to get a non-tech job.

excitom 13y ago

Must be nice not to need to work for a living. Remind me never to hire this quitter.

rambwerf 13y ago
Jealous much?
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]

badman_ting 13y ago

I don't understand the mindset of "oh, I'm just going to cook and do things and write some code sometimes". I mean that in an envious way -- it sounds nice. But I just can't think that way for some reason. I didn't grow up with a lot of security so not having money come in is really stressful for me, even if I have savings.

auctiontheory 13y ago

If you find yourself repeatedly bored, take the test at JOCRF.org. Best ~$700 I ever spent on my career.

guynamedloren 13y ago
Thanks, I'll have to check it out.
nissimk 13y ago
That's interesting. What did you learn about yourself from the test and what changes did you make after that?
- auctiontheory 13y ago
  I learned that my strengths were different - almost the mirror image - of what I had imagined them to be, and the direction I needed to take was very different than my education and career to date. Briefly: more creativity, more words, not so much numbers/analytics. It was a big surprise. I have followed their advice, and while it's difficult to turn one's career on a dime, I'm happy with the results so far. What I'm doing "feels right," and I'm much better at it. I think about this every day. Your aptitude profile will be different than mine. At this point, I've referred about a dozen friends to the center. Some have got value from it, others haven't. The ones who benefited the most were those who were open to making changes. (Some people will spend $700 and then throw away results that don't fit their self-image. That's a waste.) I specifically recommend JOCRF to apparently intelligent people who have a hard time settling down in a career, or say they are bored. Perhaps they don't "know themselves" well enough - that's where the test helps.

Tehnix 13y ago

I can relate all too well. I once got hired in a startup my brother was in. I relocated to a new town (the capital), and got the chance to work in the development team with my brother and another guy I also knew very well. Things were awesome, and I couldn't be happier. After awhile though, my motivation started declining quickly, and I found it hard to get up in the morning. By that time, I had almost stopped entirely doing projects when I got home. I just didn't feel like coding in my spare time anymore. So, what went wrong? I loved my coworkers, it was exciting being in a startup, and I was somehow involved in the decision making, but, I just felt bored. Just, a complete lack of motivation. After awhile with this, I decided to quit, since I was going to start at university anyways. As the author of the post said, I also immediately felt relieved. I got my programming joy back. What I've learned from this is, that I either a) want a job were I do trivial stuff (like, working in a super market), and don't code since I prefer having a joy for coding as it is a thing I love dearly, rather than just getting payed to do it. or b) be my own boss, be it freelance web developing, or, running my own startup. When it's my goals on the line, I get much more motivated. I've had plenty of shitty jobs, and also had good jobs. This is what I've gathered from my (short) experience (I'm only 20 atm, but been working since I was young). This may also just be me, seeing as I get bored very quickly, and loose my motivation if I'm not feeling like it.

invalidOrTaken 13y ago
Regarding your job dichotomy: yes! My two favorite jobs ever: working at Starbucks, and freelancing. I would rent my brain out, but it's not quite under my control.

rglover 13y ago

"For the next three or six months, I'm just going to work on interesting things." Right on! Have fun :)

dools 13y ago

Man, kids in the valley gettin' paid too much.

AshleyWysocki 13y ago
He's from LA actually.
- dools 13y ago
  Surely Valley is a metonym that includes LA (at least in the context of ridiculous developer salaries).

andyidsinga 13y ago

yup. congrats

millerm 13y ago

I just quit mine too. I have 5 days left. No clue as to what's next. I'm not ready to talk about it.

shawnreilly 13y ago

Just curious, what would you do if Airbnb offered you a job at this point?

guynamedloren 13y ago
I'd say no. I don't dislike the company nor am I bitter... I am simply no longer interested. Fwiw, when they did not hire me originally, they said they wanted to keep in touch - and they kept their word. They reached out about 6 months later, but I was already living the startup dream at that point.

thatinstant 13y ago

When I read the post, I thought the same thing... It's almost as if I felt like I was reading my own blog (if I kept one). I have always strived to find meaningful work where I feel like I can have a positive impact on the world. About 3 years ago, I took a job at a startup where I was sold on the story that it would have a meaningful impact on the health/wellness of others. I took on new roles and responsibilities easily as I really wanted the idea of the company to succeed. However, as I learn more and more about the true intentions of the founders, I realize that it has nothing to do with impacting the health and well-being of millions, but all to do with making money.

guynamedloren 13y ago
> However, as I learn more and more about the true intentions of the founders, I realize that it has nothing to do with impacting the health and well-being of millions, but all to do with making money. That's not a great situation to be in. Are you still working there?
- thatinstant 13y ago
  Yes. I made a lot of sacrifices to my programming skills to take on other roles and responsibilities to move the company forward. Now, 3 years later, I'm finding it tough to leave. I wish I could just jump ship, but having bills to pay is a huge motivator to maintain the status quo.
- lgieron 13y ago
  Isn't that the norm? I'd be interested in examples of profitable companies which put well-being of people over making money.
  - thatinstant 13y ago
    You're right... It's like asking, "what's the difference between Santa Clause, the Easter Bunny, and a for-profit company that improves the well-being of people?" ...nothing, they are all figments of our collective imaginations. (no offense to those HN readers who still believe ;-) ) I think many of the companies get started with good intentions, but we all know what the road to hell is paved with, right? What can be done to fix this?

johnathanz 13y ago

Too bad the company got bureaucratic. But it seems to be the nature of things. Startups are born, they grow, they get big, and inevitably they get boring because 1) maintaining legacy code & doing incremental changes is never as fun as green-field development 2)having customers mean proving you can be reliable, and that comes with doing hard work - providing customer support, fixing bugs. Snazzy new features give way to doing what the market wants. I'm glad you made the leap to quit though, because it does sound like you were genuinely bored. While I agree a life guided by curiosity and experiments is the right pursuit, I personally don't think that luxury will always be available to us ALL the time. Sometimes, we just have to put up with doing boring tasks...

prtksxna 13y ago

It feels great to feel what you are feeling. I recently graduated out of a college that I didn't like too much and now I've moved cities and working on stuff that I really want to. I guess breaks like this are necessary to keep the mind fresh.

iblaine 13y ago

Wow, taking hipster to a whole new level. Working at a startup, having catered lunches & the latest mac is too much so he quit.

dougabug 13y ago

One of the most liberating things I ever did was quit my job and go travel for a couple years. I'd do it again, but I'd like to keep my home on the Peninsula. Thiel should pay people to quit their jobs. The creative energy would be incredible.