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I cannot afford to go back to engineering school

• nabnob 13y ago
  I'm slightly confused about the logistics of this because I also attended Carnegie Mellon and received around $20k in financial aid per calendar year (grants and Stafford loans combined), and my parents made over $100k. If this isn't too intrusive - how much were you making when you received $16k in financial aid vs. $104? Are you only including grants in this amount, or does this also include low-interest student loans?
  • ingrid 13y ago
    I was actually at Pitt not CMU. I was not working when I received $16k, although I did do a work study position that year. My income to get $16k in financial aid because I had an income of zero. I had one grant in the 2011-12 year but for around $200.
• avend015 13y ago
  Keep trying sista. You'll achieve your goals eventually.
• zek 13y ago
  I'm in a somewhat similar(though far less tough) situation. I am currently paying for my school myself and I simply was not going have enough to afford it even after my paid internship. So I opted instead to take a leave of absence and work for a while. I think this option is making more sense as the overall value of a degree declines, especially in fields like CS where a degree is not necessarily a requirement.
• epistasis 13y ago
  This is broken, and it shouldn't be this way. There are far too many broken bureaucracies in modern society, both governmental and corporate. And most of these impede those with the fewest resources or capabilities to work around them. Just because we've been trained to think that government or corporate policy is supposed to be complex and broken, doesn't mean that we shouldn't try to improve. Without a ridiculously good merit-based scholarship from a great school, I never would have been able to attend any of the top-tier schools into which I had been accepted, because my parents' money was counted as my money, even though their money was clearly not mine, and not something that I could choose to spend.
  • Blahah 13y ago
    I worked a full time job during my undergrad for the same reason: my parents' income was above the threshold for government support, even though my parents didn't support me. It was frustrating that other people whose parents earned a tiny bit less but did pay for them to live and study, would also get a huge lump of free money from the government each year. But ultimately, not getting free money made me independent and forced me to learn to manage my time and make money from my skills. That lesson is going to pay dividends for a long time to come.
    • gte910h 13y ago
      My parents repeatedly said they would support me, then didn't, after not letting me get loans (I had a pretty nice scholarship, but it didn't cover housing in a major city or fees or food). I couldn't see that being possible with today's college costs.
  • anologwintermut 13y ago
    The flip side to this is I know someone who went through the legal steps to have their parents money not be counted as theirs and got huge scholarships. Trick: Their parents still supported him and were worth about 100 million. So he got a nice Mercedes(2 actually, he crashed one) and cheap college. It's a flawed system, but simply not counting your parents money is an even more flawed system.
    • dsrguru 13y ago
      What are those legal steps?
      • brownbat 13y ago
        Probably referring to emancipation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emancipation_of_minors http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emancipation_of_minors
      • gscott 13y ago
        Doing an adult adoption by a poorer family member would do the trick (if you are over 18)
• deleted 13y ago
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• Bitwse 13y ago
  This is really interesting and I cannot believe that financial aid system can let something like this happen. Will definitely look into it.
• japaget 13y ago
  I can't read the content. Instead, I get "Please sign in to continue" and a suggestion that I sign in via Twitter.
  • japaget 13y ago
    I was finally able to read the content by changing "https" to "http" in the link. Now even https works for me.
• mynegation 13y ago
  Every time the idea of basic income is discussed I think that universal healthcare, subsidized education, and - possibly - targeted infrastructure spending are much better approach. The system is set up in a way that OP (and I am sure many others) found herself in this strange valley, where you are damned if you do, damned if you don't.
  • digikata 13y ago
    The reason that economists like basic income is that each recipient is free to decide how to apply that income to best advance their lot in life. Any other breakdown, and you get more overhead of policy and administration because you are determining for a population some some mix of programs. The risk that you fall into some policy gap, just as in the article, is increased at that point; and the government is then paying both the benefit, and for a higher administration cost to qualify people and distribute the benefit.
• GuiA 13y ago
  Sounds like you're smart and have skills in demand. Try to get a job at a bay area company; living like a student should allow you to save enough money to go back to college within 18-24 months (if you even want to go back by then).
• fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
  "Students should be warned that doing a paid internship can negatively impact your ability to finish up paying for school." Or a job of any kind. Same thing happened to me.
  • hga 13y ago
    Don't know about you, but there was no way she could win. Her financial aid package wasn't covering her costs, and making money to close the gap just reduced the aid.
    • fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
      Same here, on my third attempt to get Fin Aid, I tracked my time spent working on it. It was the first year that I received any money. It worked out to ~5 Dollars per hour.
• BlackDeath3 13y ago
  I wonder if this applies to me at all. I'm working a paid internship in the summer, and all of a sudden, no Stafford loans offered. Does a late FAFSA impact Stafford loans at all? I'm fairly certain I still made the deadline, but by no means was I an early submission.
• rayiner 13y ago
  I agree with the ultimate sentiment, which is that it's generally inadvisable to try and pay your way through school these days. The federal government will let you and your parents borrow as much as you need to pay for school, and you'll make more money after you finish your degree, so your efforts are better spent trying to finish in as few semesters as possible to minimize the amount of money you need to borrow instead of trying to pay for things as you go. This is an area, unfortunately, where kids from wealthier families have a huge advantage. Even if your parents aren't willing to pay for college for you, they are much less likely to be hesitant to take PLUS loans on your behalf that they expect you to pay back. And as a general matter, people who came from wealthier backgrounds are much less afraid of debt and leverage. I'm not saying that it's the most desirable state of affairs. My total cost of attendance in the early 2000's at Georgia Tech (in-state) was only $10-12k (including housing and food, tuition was just a few thousand) which I could make during the summer. But that's increasingly something that's not possible, even at state schools. And under the new paradigm, debt is the way to go. Especially with the new PAY-E repayment terms.
  • tomphoolery 13y ago
    My parents helped me pay for college. In fact, they covered my tuition. We did take out some loans but not much. I am eternally grateful that this debt has not been saddled upon me for the rest of my life, because if it was I probably wouldn't have gone to college in the first place, seeing no way of ever making enough money back to warrant what I've learned. I did not go to school for CompSci, btw, or anything programming-related (unless you count programming synthesizers as "programming" :P)
  • hga 13y ago
    Is there still a screw case for "kids from wealthier families" when the families refuse to help? At least during the '80s, I was told I was ineligible for any financial aid.
    • rdl 13y ago
      Yeah, that is half of why I dropped out of MIT (the other half was chance to do an ecash startup, but I was financially screwed for this reason otherwise; the alternative was ROTC)
• mchannon 13y ago
  Across this country, this very month, legions of rubes will be getting low-interest student loans to enroll in psychology, general studies, and undecided major degree programs, paying $40k per year, only to drop out shortly thereafter with a huge financial hangover and little ability to pay for it. In contrast, an electrical engineering degree will easily pay for itself, particularly if you've managed to bootstrap yourself to a third year. Why haven't you addressed student loans as a vector for finishing a highly lucrative degree program? Seems like you are (forgive the term) a poster child for student loans.
  • HarryHirsch 13y ago
    You say with great conviction that EE is the way to go, but with the world being what is is, who can predict the future these days? In the early 2000s a degree in chemistry was considered a safe bet, especially with a biochemistry PhD tacked on. Then there was the 2008 recession, the great round of layoffs at the major pharmcos, combined with the offshoring of early discovery. If anyone says they feel cheated I'm not going to disagree. I'm not going to use the word "rube", and neither should you! At the moment medical school is what the kids at my university are shooting for, that used to be the ticket into a safe career, but one thing is clear: healthcare in this country is in need of reform. I cannot say how it is going to look, but I will not say that taking out five-digit loans for medical school is a good idea. And who can tell about EE? If they offshored chemistry they will offshore design. It's going to happen, the pharmaceutical industry has provided the blueprint.
    • carlosdp 13y ago
      Dude, you went through like 5 different unrelated issues there o_o. But to your first point, the original commenter was stating that EE is a safe bet now, and therefore will likely be in 2 years when the OP graduates.
      • HarryHirsch 13y ago
        Just wait until he gets Pfizered. At least all the experienced Med. Chemists that Pfizer let go since 2008 had ample time to pay off their student loans, nevermind that when they got their degrees 20 years ago it was actually possible to work one's way through school.
• anologwintermut 13y ago
  It's unclear if her financial aid was grants or loans. If they denied her grants I'd say this (while unfair by current standards) is reasonable. Given her internships, it's reasonable to say she could probably pay for a chunk of her degree and certainly afford loan payments when employed later. Now, of course, one wonder's why we are offering loans and aid to people who can't get such a return on investment ( regardless of whether they need to pay or not).
  • rquantz 13y ago
    If I remember correctly, FAFSA also limits how much money the federal government will lend you.
    • heimidal 13y ago
      The government offers both need-based subsidized loans and unsubsidized loans. The latter are available to anyone, regardless of need. They usually won't cover everything, but they often cover a good chunk of your total bill.
• ececconi 13y ago
  That was one of the reasons keeping me from doing a paid internship. My scholarship included full tuition and even paid for a lot of room and board. Furthermore, the university paid me an extra $15,000 scholarship just for doing a dual degree in philosophy and engineering. Sorry to hear about your story. It really does sound like a terrible situation.
• Glyptodon 13y ago
  It's lame when a distant internship won't provide rent, but also possibly this person is going a too expensive school? It sounds like between the two internships combined they'd have made around $30k total, no? If so, that seems like just barely enough to cover living expenses and a year at a public university with $4 to $7k in tuition and fees a semester. Though it would be lame to have to spend 9 months off school to spend a year in school.
  • socialengineer 13y ago
    She goes to University of Pittsburgh, which is a public school.
    • keiferski 13y ago
      Just for clarification (I'm a Pitt alum): Pitt is sort of a public school. A portion of the budget comes from the state, but not as much as many other state schools (the California system, for example).
  • aestra 13y ago
    When I was applying for school (which was a while ago) public schools were actually getting hard to get into, because they were cheaper and college was becoming a popular thing, everyone was going, even people who it would be a waste of time for. All the psychology, art history, and undeclared majors were flocking there. I found a private school that was not much more expensive. It is seriously not realistic that everyone go to public school. Also, public school funding is being cut, and students are being asked to pay bigger part of the tuition. Also, public school prices vary a lot by state. Private universities might have a bigger sticker price, but there's more room for leeway. There's need based grants that can be given out by the school itself, for example (I got them from mine). I don't know if public schools can do this.
• chatmasta 13y ago
  I'm in a similar situation from paid internships and my own business. My advice: talk to your school's financial aid office and explain your situation. They should be able to help you. At the very least, it's worth TALKING to them. (Disclaimer: I go to a need-blind school with very good financial aid. I don't know how engineering/state schools will treat this. But it's worth TALKING to them.)
• nathanfp 13y ago
  Ingrid really sorry to hear this. I had to take out loans to help pay for college and found the entire process extremely convoluted and most aid offices quite unhelpful. Ultimately, I think our schools and government should be supporting students who are working hard to supplement loans with their own income, not punishing them by reducing your ability to take out a loan.
• tazzy531 13y ago
  >>"Students should be warned that doing a paid internship can negatively impact your ability to finish up paying for school." Students should be warned that crossing the highway blindfolded if unsafe. Students should be warned that the stove could be hot if you leave it on. At some point, people need to take personal responsibility for their action. They need to understand how their actions effect them positively or negatively and balance out those decisions. People need to understand that there is nobody that is going to hand hold them through life.
  • babarock 13y ago
    She's not complaining or asking to be handheld. She's warning her fellow students that working to make money will impact the ability to pay for school. It's counter intuitive. It's not obvious at all. It's barely mentioned or talked about. It can cost (and it did cost her) a college degree. I don't disagree with the sentiment of your remark, but it's completely out of place here. She's simply warning others not to do the same mistake, since it's an easy one to make.
  • PhasmaFelis 13y ago
    When I clicked on the comment thread, I made a bet with myself that some jackass would've shown up within the first hour to bellow "It's your fault your academic advisor/student aid office lied to you."
  • nilkn 13y ago
    The fact that one could get hit by a car crossing a highway blindfolded is obvious. The fact that earning money in college could negatively impact your ability to pay for college is not obvious. The warning is justified. Many people would not anticipate this.
• peterjancelis 13y ago
  It's a crazy system indeed and it's not only for scholarships that marginal tax rates on the poor with benefits are often extremely high. Other examples include people on disability who lose their benefits forever if they try to work full time, even if they fail after a week. It's going to be hard to change things because every little rule has people making a living a living of it.
• vaishaksuresh 13y ago
  International students face a worse situation. Students on F1 visa are not even allowed to intern for 2 semesters in most universities. To make the situation worse, the tuition is almost thrice the normal amount. Shitty deal for students from countries whose currency's value is less than USD.
• null_ptr 13y ago
  That site messes with the vertical scrollbar on Firefox Android, how hard can it be to serve a page of text without doing any useless CSS or JS or who-knows-what trickeries?
• bluedino 13y ago
  It's kind of a shame that financial aid is often given based on need, and not ability.
  • muzz 13y ago
    That's the point of financial aid. Merit scholarships exist for the latter.
• digikata 13y ago
  I paid my way through the latter grades of college thanks to a somewhat devious manager at my first summer internship. That manager transitioned me to a part-time employee at the end of the internship period after the school year started. In the latter two years of college I was a full time employee while going to school. Now, I took five years to graduate a four year degree, but since I was cashflow positive (yay low cost cal-state tuition) and employed in a topical field, the extended time really didn't matter. Now the manager was somewhat devious because I don't think the internships were necessarily supposed to work that way for all interns, but really it worked out well for both me and the company in the long term. It would be worth probing the internship company in this case to see if some similar arrangement could be made. (if the budget for tuition vs part/full time pay works out, I did this in the 90's, no idea how it would work now).
  • aestra 13y ago
    Tuition is a magnitude higher now than it was in the 90's.
    • digikata 13y ago
      At Cal state in the 90's I was paying ~$4000 a quarter, now [1] it seems to be $6000-7000. It's not ideal, but not an order of magnitude either. Today, the gap is undeniably tighter between college expenses vs living wages at available jobs. If you're sending yourself through college, working or with a loan or some mix, it seems like a career ROI calc and a budget/cashflow calc for during college is in order. You also might have some hard choices in deciding not to pay a premium for prestige, and look for a solid education at a discount at a less prestigious, but still perfectly functional college. [1] http://www.calstate.edu/budget/student-fees/fee-rates/TuitionFeesAllCampus.pdf http://www.calstate.edu/budget/student-fees/fee-rates/Tuitio...
• SholaJS 13y ago
  Have you ever worked hard for something and then realized it wasn't enough? Or worse, working hard brought you to this point, alone and unable to pay for school? It's clear that if she's writing this, she's trying talking to financial aid. She's tried saving as much as possible for school. She's tried all the options... but none were left for her. I go to Stanford and I found myself in a slightly similar situation on a smaller scale. I had $1.2k in debt before the start of the year. Yes you read that right, just over one thousand. Well... Stanford won't disperse financial aid if you have a balance of over $1k. So, I had 2 days before school started and I didn't have the money to head back to school. No matter who I talked to or who I called, the story was the same. That $1k was my responsibility but to be honest, I didn't have it. That summer I barely made enough to support myself. I also maxed out my credit cards and because of my family situation, I didn't have a cosigner that could help me co-sign a private loan. I also couldn't apply for a loan through my school because that was also considered financial aid. That night I cried... so much. I called my financial aid office over and over only for them to tell me the same thing. I called relatives. I even begged my brother for a small loan just so I could register for classes (which he never gave btw). The next day at work I burst into tears for seemingly no reason at all. Why should I? I go to a school with all the bells and whistles. Why would that be a concern? Had a sorority sister not heard me crying, I would never have gotten the money to enroll. It's because the system is broken. This story is not about amounts or what she "could've done," it's about the reality of being in a situation you can't possibly control.
• sev 13y ago
  Yeah, the financial aid system is pretty bad. A single woman I know who lives alone got denied financial aid because her gross annual income was 31k instead of the limit of 29k that financial aid requires. If you do the math and include all average expenses for any single person, you'll see that there's no way to pay for tuition and/or housing without a student loan in a situation as this. Is financial aid only supposed to be for people who either have no job at all, are completely poor, or are doing fraud?
  • woodchuck64 13y ago
    With just $2k off, how about making an IRA contribution and filing an amended tax return.
• CyruzDraxs 13y ago
  I couldn't even afford to get INTO university. By 18, I had to pay $1000/month rent or get kicked out. My family had NO money saved to help with college. I wasn't eligible for any scholarships I could find. The city I was in paid minimum wage for EVERYTHING, even skilled work. I worked $8/hour doing web development. I tried saving up enough to even just move away. 3 years later, and not a penny ahead, I just threw caution to the wind and plunged myself deep into debt to get the hell out of there. A year later, I've made more than I did in those 3 years put together. I'm still in debt, but I'll comfortably be out in 6-8 months. At this point, university would only be of value to me if I felt like immigrating to the US. The point is, if your situation sucks, change it. If school doesn't seem viable, skip it. Find a workaround. The point is not acquire a piece of paper, the point is to prove your worth.
  • tjbiddle 13y ago
    Hey - Just wanted to say great job on taking the plunge to get yourself out of that situation. That really takes a lot of courage throwing yourself into an unknown situation like that - I really hope others can learn from your experience if they're in a dire situation as you were.
    • CyruzDraxs 13y ago
      It's difficult to escape that sort of situation, but it doesn't get easier. It gets harder, and faster-paced. And that's a good thing. Adversity is a force that not only pushes us back when we feel fear, but also pushes us forward when we feel determination. How much you want a thing will determine which way you move.
• cinquemb 13y ago
  I have a feeling that there are going to be more and more stories like this. Especially with 60% of Fed student loans non performant, interest rates increasing, and the cost to acquire the piece of paper (and the "college experience") increasing. But Sallie Mae would have you think otherwise when their split goes through on wall st. I have a feeling someone is going to get rich off of CDS backed by securities on student loans… as for the rest of us, I guess we have to create new paths in life to acquire and apply knowledge for the betterment of our communities that we are apart of because going x times more in debt than the generation before, to acquire knowledge to apply in a world that is increasingly making it obsolete (as far as human labor is concerned in a service dominated economy) seems like an exercise in futility and fiscal suicide.
  • jloughry 13y ago
    I keep hearing that the US student loan situation is a 'bubble' that is going to burst soon. Fine, but...what will that look like when it happens? I've read Michael Lewis's books---if you haven't, do!---and consequently I think I understand what happened during the mortgage crisis, and before that, M&A fever. But what would a student loan default crisis look like? Lenders can't exactly foreclose on college degrees. What might take the place of vacant houses in a student loan default crisis? Seriously, I would welcome any speculative economic analysis here.
    • hga 13y ago
      What potentially happens is too many people stop playing the game, or the game many schools require. Harvard and MIT will be fine, but the schools that aren't worth $60K/year, or less for e.g. higher tier state schools other than UC Berkeley, are likely to see enrollment crashing. That's starting to happen with law schools.
    • cinquemb 13y ago
      Since I mentioned Sallie Mae, I'll set up the situation here (and ignoring the big players who are moving out of private student loans [0]): -Sallie Mae (SM) completes its corporate split (Fed loans in one company, Private in the other) [1] -People buy shares of SM, and get paid dividends every quarter (or w/e their terms are). -As of today, 40% of Federal loans payments are being made, with $118+ billion Fed loans in their portfolio of $1+ Trillion outstanding Fed loans (so SM is probably the most statistically correlated to the total compared to others individual companies) [1][2] -As interest rates go up on loans [3], and cost of tuition goes up [4], less people will afford to make payments (regardless of if they are in school, dropped out, or un/employed) -As less people can afford to make payments, the current 40% making payments will go down (as it has untill this point under the current circumstances). -Less people making payments means less money to go around to pay dividends -lower dividends on shares means people try to sell shares. -In attempts to raise capital to pay dividends (and stabilize share value), SM will accept cash/credit in exchange of secured student loans (delaying the issue of not being able to pay dividends due to market forces in response to status quo policies) -If/When x amount of the secured loans become non performing, SM has to pay in full for the amount disclosed in the CDS deal. Rinse, wash, repeat… [0] http://www.americanbanker.com/issues/177_63/us-bank-student-lending-cfpb-1048016-1.html http://www.americanbanker.com/issues/177_63/us-bank-student-... [1] http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-05-31/sallie-mae-split-marks-bet-on-much-abused-private-student-loans.html http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-05-31/sallie-mae-split-ma... [2] http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57597232/study-half-of-$1-trillion-federal-student-debt-unpaid/ http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57597232/study-half-of-$... [3] http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/31/us-usa-studentloans-rates-idUSBRE96U1G220130731 http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/31/us-usa-studentloan... [4] http://money.cnn.com/2012/10/24/pf/college/public-college-tuition/index.html http://money.cnn.com/2012/10/24/pf/college/public-college-tu...
• clamprecht 13y ago
  Has the author tried the appeal process?
  • nknighthb 13y ago
    I'm not sure that's actually the wisest course of action at this point. No matter what, it's almost certain she won't get as much aid as before, and completely certain she won't do any better than before, and what she was getting before clearly wasn't enough. It sounds like the author is now extremely well-positioned to get reasonably good jobs and really start her career. Doing so and continuing her formal education part-time may be the best choice.
• gwbas1c 13y ago
  "Despite having federal loans and a work study job, I had to borrow money from my friends and max out my credit cards just to make ends meet." When I was in school, that was a red flag. Without knowing the details of Ingrid's education costs and spending habits, it's just as easy to conclude that Ingrid lived beyond her means. Thus, before blaming the system, I'd want to know what Ingrid's numbers were. She did intern for Intel, which pays very well and provides lots of assistance.
  • nabnob 13y ago
    Yeah, the numbers don't really make sense. My parents made over $100k per year and I still received about $20k in grants and low-interest student loans, AND I worked part-time during the school year in addition to full time during the summer.
• zallarak 13y ago
  I can empathize. My only constructive comment would be to never waste time complaining or exuding frustration. I understand your situation is tough, but everyone who does anything worth doing will undergo hardship. Find a way to make it work -- if it is impossible or not worth it, choose another route and go on. Your route should never be one of complaint. I don't mean to sound preachy, this advice comes from a sincere place.
• noonespecial 13y ago
  There should be a way for companies to invest in promising interns, paying some of their tuition costs in exchange for a certain number of years employment with the company afterwards. While this wouldn't work for many fields, it would certainly help in cases like this (and tech in general). It would seem that with as much as companies pay for head-hunters and recruiters (and how much they whine about the lack of quality candidates), it would be a no-brainier.
  • NkVczPkybiXICG 13y ago
    The freedom to quit is vital to maintaining a non-exploitative workplace.
    • foobarian 13y ago
      Reminds me of how H1Bs work. Quit -> must go back to home country. Can be quite a motivation if the home country is a lousy place.
  • pliny 13y ago
    You are describing indentured servitude, which is illegal because it is a form of slavery.
    • noonespecial 13y ago
      I'm not quite seeing that. Kobe signs a contract agreeing to play for the Lakers. Musicians sign deals to work for record companies, often for "advance" money up front and no guarantee of future payments. Its just a contract. Mutually agreed upon. I'm sure it can be structured so that the student/employee can exit the contract with a reasonable repayment plan. Are current student loans, non-dischargeable through bankruptcy really that much better?
  • solistice 13y ago
    Referring to my post above, excluding the obligation to work additional years, a similar system is in place in Germany. Of course American tuition fees seem to make it infeasible.
• rcoder 13y ago
  This closely mirrors my experience, though my "summer job" straight out of my Freshman year of college was part-time cashiering at a pizza restaurant. From there, I temped as an office worker at a startup, convinced them to hire me full time and let me build databases, then pivoted that into writing Java code. After a year of work wherein I made about $25k, I talked to the financial aid office and found out that my expected contribution towards tuition, room, and board was likely to go from about $5k/year (barely covered via loans and family support) to $15-20k, which was totally untenable. My response was to drop out, keep coding, and figure out how to backfill the CS knowledge I needed by working with smarter, more experienced people than myself. 15 years in, it seems to have worked reasonably well, and I'm regularly reminded how much easier my life has been not having tens of thousands of dollars worth of student loan debt hanging around my neck throughout my 20s. To be clear: I know that the plural of anecdote is not "data", and I don't want to suggest that the dropout -> tech industry path is easy or in any way guaranteed. However, I think that it's a far easier field to get into than many others if you have the aptitude and motivation to build some things on your own and learn as much as you can from the process.
  • nazgulnarsil 13y ago
    "6 figure student loan debt" is a persistent but false meme. It implies a different distribution of student debt than actually exists. Average graduating debt was ~$23k last year. http://www.finaid.org/loans/ http://www.finaid.org/loans/
    • rcoder 13y ago
      Yeah, I realized it was hyperbolic immediately after posting; hence the edit to say "tens of thousands of dollars". I also wasn't really trying to generalize; I was attending a fairly expensive liberal arts school (albeit to study math) with 100% need-based financial aid, and tuition alone doesn't cost nearly as much at most state schools.
• mateyrose 13y ago
  This is a travesty, and one I witnessed as a college professor again and again. Why does the US pretend that we don't have enough science and engineering "smarts" among our own students, and seek talent from other countries, when in fact our talent is right here, but unable to afford tuition. Moreover, we hear quite a lot about the lack of women in science and engineering fields.....and here is one who is passionate about engineering yet cannot afford to complete her degree. Something is terribly wrong with this scenario. Businesses: if you really want bright, gifted young women and minorities in the engineering field, put your money where your mouths are and pony up. The rewards will far outweigh your contributions.
• kkthnxbye 13y ago
  I was in a similar situation in Canada (but of course, total cost for a semester in engineering school + housing + food amounted to about $8k - $9k). With an internship that landed me about $22/hr post-tax, 40% of the total I made was put towards paying for the next semester. That automatically kicked me out of the low-income family grant which would've given me $8k a year. I remember some of my friends saying they received more in grants and bursaries than what I made in that 4 month period alone (with no effort, to boot!), and that slightly discouraged me a bit, but one needs to remember this is an investment that will pay off in the next few years. That being said, I was enrolled in a software engineering program, but most of my friends have found work in EE as well.
• Sindrome 13y ago
  Welcome to real life. Shit happens. Keep trying and it will get better.
  • Sindrome 13y ago
    Also, if the concept is so baffling, then good luck with understanding income tax.
• superbaconman 13y ago
  At my current pay it'll take close to 10 years to pay off my college debt. The only hope I have to shorten that period is to produce more value (I'm trying my best), or get lucky with a startup (I'm in a good market). I know I took the long investment, and I'm fine with that. I'm confident in my skills and my drive, but I couldn't imagine being in a different market. My concern lies in the arts and humanities. They are very important, but will suffer immensely.
• evasion1 13y ago
  I can't afford to go back to school, even though I desperately want to for CS because I have $120,000 in debt from law school. Absolutely hate law and going to LS was the biggest mistake of my life.
  • GuiA 13y ago
    CS is one of the easiest subjects to learn on your own for free. Have you tried pursuing it this way? (eg. using Zed Shaw's free books, for example)
• kyro 13y ago
  Hey, at least you're not $250k in the hole with an incredibly low 7% interest rate, at the age of 26! What do you all think about a Kickstarter for student loans? I'm looking for $300k in investment or to validate my idea by raising $300k through the service.
  • randomdata 13y ago
    I like the idea. Money up front now, for a percentage of your future earnings.
    • johnpowell 13y ago
      Oregon is on it. http://www.salon.com/2013/07/11/oregon_students_partner/ http://www.salon.com/2013/07/11/oregon_students_partner/
      • socillion 13y ago
        That's pretty exaggerated. http://www.oregonlive.com/education/index.ssf/2013/07/oregon_plan_for_tuition-free_l.html http://www.oregonlive.com/education/index.ssf/2013/07/oregon...
  • originofspecie 13y ago
    looks like someone beat you to the punch https://www.upstart.com/ https://www.upstart.com/
• chernevik 13y ago
  Are you a US citizen? If so, write your Congressman. Write the rep for the University's district, your home town rep, and the senators of both states. Make the letter one page, and attach a narrative with the gory details and figures. Give them details on how to contact the financial aid office, the dean's office, and any student ombudsman. The idea here is to capture attention (short, punchy letter), provide all the ammunition a staffer needs to make a phone call asking what the hell is going on (the attachments), and the targeting information. Send 'em hard copy, to both the DC and the local district office. Wait two days, send an email. Wait a day and call, asking to speak with someone in reference to same. You won't get the Congressman, of course, but if you get a competent staffer they'll know how to look into the matter and make people uncomfortable enough to do better. Get someone who's worked in the district a few years and they probably play tennis with someone at the University. These offices are heavily dedicated to constituent service. If you get their attention and make it easy for them to investigate, some staffer will pick this as a lay-up "good deed for the day." Congress doesn't have jurisdiction, of course, but any public institution steps to when the office calls. They'll pay attention, and they may very well look harder for some discretion to fix this. The overall system is, of course, stupid. That won't get any better, it's a set of compromises among reasonable sounding concerns that have amounted to a Kafka-esque impossibility. But there is a lot of discretion in the joints -- if you can make someone notice this particular glitch, it might get fixed.
  • patio11 13y ago
    My brother used to work in constituent services. This is spot on.
• encoderer 13y ago
  Have you looked to a bank or p2p lender? The purpose of the student loan system to help extend credit to people who are otherwise less creditworthy. It's not a perfect system but it sorta works. In your case, you said you maxed out your credit cards. Presumably you managed your credit effectively aside from that, and then paid it off. If so, your Fico score should be high enough to qualify for a loan outside the federal student loan guarantee program.
• SamWhited 13y ago
  I did the exact same thing a couple of months ago; ended up getting a reasonable job offer that will allow me to pay off my student loans. Higher education is (more or less) a waste of money these days.
  • ethanbond 13y ago
    Uh, even aside from the invaluable life experience of college, the plan financial statistics disagree.
• lqdc13 13y ago
  My parents didn't help me either, but I had absolutely no problem with tuition. And it wasn't because I paid it off after every semester. Why not just take out loans and go to a state school? I went to a good engineering state school in New York and many of my classmates got excellent jobs after that. The tuition is only $5k per year. Total tuition and other expenses can be easily paid off within a couple of years with an engineering job. The interest rate is only like 5% for people with OK credit. Regarding credit cards: It definitely does not make sense to use credit cards to pay for tuition, because the APR is very high compared to student loans. Edit: Regarding the amount you can take out in private loans: Discover lets you take out like 50k per semeseter. This is way more than enough.
• ismaelc 13y ago
  Here are some summary snippets from the post - "That summer I started my first engineering internship for six months from June to December, making $25.85 an hour working for a well-known tech company.", "It made no sense for me to stay in school; the financial stress was affecting my ability to get work done, and subsequently my GPA dropped.", "This June, I was notified that my financial aid was reduced from $16,000 to $104 because I had made too much money in 2012, which put me in a higher income bracket to receive less financial aid.", "Every attempt to contact my financial aid office has been unhelpful.", "They have parents that pay for school and all their expenses, which makes their internship money pocket money."
• deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
• NamTaf 13y ago
  The US university loan system is fucked. We have a government-run loan scheme called HECS. You defer your university fees throughout the duration of your studies, apparently no matter how long they last. The programme is not means tested at all, so it is available for every single domestic student studying uni here, no matter what. That loan is then paid back only once you start earning more than a threshold amount of taxable income (this year, $51,309 - it's not a low income by any stretch) and the payment amount is graduated depending on how much over you earn, from 4% of your income at that threshold amount to 9% once you hit $95,288 or above [1]. There is no real interest charged on the debt - the loan is only indexed to CPI every year, so that the real cost of the loan amount doesn't change. The repayment is treated like tax - either taken out as you earn your wage or squared every year upon doing your tax return. The perk that rich people get is that if they pay their bill upfront (that is, each semester as they study), they get a 10% discount on the total cost of the tuition for that semester (apparently, off memory it was 25% when I went through about 5-10 years ago). If you put it on HECS, you instead pay the full amount. Oh, and also for every domestic student, a semester of full-time study costs on the order of $3000-$5000, so a 3 year degree is about $18k-$30k of the above debt [2], depending on what you study. It's heavily subsidised by the government. The system is funded, in part, by international students, who pay the full fee amounts (no government subsidy) if they choose to study here. The major criticism of the system is that students can just incur this debt then flee the country. If they earn no taxable income here, they never have to pay it back no matter how much they earn overseas. I can't really think of an easy way to resolve this because it's impossible to garnish income from another country. Nevertheless, the system works reasonably well. [1]: http://studyassist.gov.au/sites/studyassist/payingbackmyloan/loan-repayment/pages/loan-repayment#HowMuchWillMyRepaymentsBe http://studyassist.gov.au/sites/studyassist/payingbackmyloan... [2]: http://studyassist.gov.au/sites/studyassist/helppayingmyfees/csps/pages/student-contribution-amounts#2013 http://studyassist.gov.au/sites/studyassist/helppayingmyfees...
  • applecore 13y ago
    The U.S. has a really helpful student loan repayment program — and no one's using it: http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-08-07/the-u-dot-s-dot-has-a-really-helpful-student-loan-repayment-program-and-no-ones-using-it http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-08-07/the-u-dot-s-...
• praguebakerr 13y ago
  move to the Germany or to another country in Europe, (almost) free education is still huge benefit when you compare it with states
  • _delirium 13y ago
    Scandinavia is a possibility, since there are many degree programs in English. Germany is a fine choice too, but only if your German is sufficient to do coursework at a university level in that language; English options are more limited. However not all programs will be free if you come from outside the EU.
• johnpowell 13y ago
  I waited until I was 24 to fill out a FAFSA. Once you are 24 you don't need to supply your parents info. I worked at a movie theater until I got a full ride from financial aid. I got to party and get get that out of my system before I started school. And really, I am not sure how you couldn't get that any taxable income would cut into what you get. I was a drunk stoner and knew it. During the summers I got a real job and knew to never make over $9,500 in taxable income or it would eat into my aid. I quit jobs before school started so I wouldn't hit that number.
• heimidal 13y ago
  Given my experience in a similar situation several years ago, I don't think you have explored all of your options. Your Expected Family Contribution (EFC) and need-based limit may have changed, but there other ways to pay for school. (All of the following assumes you haven't already hit the overall government loan limit; if that's the case, you're at a university you honestly cannot afford.) For example, the Stafford loan program offers unsubsidized loans (meaning interest accrues while you are in school) to all eligible students regardless of need. The eligibility requirements for these loans amount to being legally allowed to attend school in the US and not being in default on existing student loans. As an independent student, you should be able to borrow up to $12,500 in unsubsidized loans directly from the government, regardless of your EFC. It will be more expensive than your other loans in the long term, so you should weigh the cost of two years of additional interest against not finishing school. All of that said... Something really feels wrong about your financial situation. The automatic-zero Expected Family Contribution limit for an independent student is $24,000. Assuming you were living on student aid from January to May and made $25.85/hour, 40 hours a week from June to December, for a full 30 weeks (unlikely given holidays, etc), you should have made right around $31,000 pre-tax. If that's the case, your EFC should be a _maximum_ of $7,000, but probably closer to half that. My bet: your FAFSA EFC is incorrect. Find the worksheets and manually work it out for yourself.
• susi22 13y ago
  I consider myself very lucky. I did my undergrad and never struggled with money. My parent never supported me with a dime since they didn't have much. I didn't have any scholarships. I saved up some money from high school and used that for the first year of college, then started working as an co-op. How did I do it? I went to school in Germany. That's also where I'm from. Back then there was no tuition and I only paid 120 Euros of administration fee per semester. I had it easy. I could study freely, I had everything I needed and the beer at the universities' vending machine was cheap. Life was good. Back then in 2004 I never read any English/US news or community web sites. I didn't know what college was like over there. After I graduate came to the US and I've been living in a typical college town at the east coast for ~7 years. I have many undergrad and graduate friends most of which are American. I'm _BAFFLED_ at the simple acceptance of this rip-off fucked up higher education system. It's not even a topic ever that our local University President just raised tuition by another 5% this year. And a ~40% raise in the last couple year. In Germany, they started talking about introducing a 500 Euro tuition in 2006(?) and introduced it in 2007. Students where furious, they protested on the streets, they occupied the main buildings. They raised there voices. They started petitions. The press was on our side. They introduced them and students investigated on how the tuition was going to be used (contract only allowed to use it towards better education and not for maintenance/bills) and problems were discovered. Long story short: In 2013/2014 there is only one state left that still has a tuition of 500 Euros. The rest abandoned it all. I have asked this question many times: Why do Americans not protest? Take the French: they kidnapped their CEO and threatened to kill them (~2009). They burned down parts of their factory. They raise their voice. Yet, with a ridiculous policy here in the US, I see nothing ever happen. I heard there was some protest about PRISM in S.F. last week. I frankly missed the coverage about that since it may have been to small. There were bigger protests about PRISM in Germany last week. This is sad and I don't understand it. Students of America: Stop wining on Internet forum, they do not tend to often get coverage of the media. You want main stream TV coverage: Go on the streets and protest.
  • lotso 13y ago
    Students of America do protest. Here are a couple of examples. UC Student Protests http://www.google.com/#bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&fp=7608e52397923e7c&q=uc+students+protest+tuition+hike http://www.google.com/#bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&fp=7608e52397923e7c... Cooper Union Protests http://www.google.com/#bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&fp=7608e52397923e7c&q=cooper+union+tuition+protest http://www.google.com/#bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&fp=7608e52397923e7c... CUNY Protests http://www.google.com/#bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&fp=7608e52397923e7c&q=cuny+protest+tuition http://www.google.com/#bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&fp=7608e52397923e7c... Rutgers Protests http://www.google.com/webhp?hl=en&tab=ww#bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&fp=7608e52397923e7c&hl=en&q=rutgers+tutition+protests http://www.google.com/webhp?hl=en&tab=ww#bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&f...
• tn13 13y ago
  I am totally stunned. Are you telling me that you are not going to fund a student who does not have a degree yet but found a good enough job where she gets paid? Man, in fact you need to raise the money given to her because it will ensure one persona out of unemployment for sure.
• fragsworth 13y ago
  Another stupid thing is you're allowed to write off your education expenses from your taxable income, but only in the same year that you made the expenses. The tax deductions can't get carried over into future years. This effectively means almost everyone who gets loans for their education pays full taxes on the money they used on that education. But if you have well-to-do parents pay for your education, they get to write the expenses off and pay much less in taxes during your college years. It's a situation where wealthier people get a significant discount just for being wealthy, and there's really no social benefit to having it be this way.
• originofspecie 13y ago
  I feel terrible for Ingrid, but I think the end of her article requires a caveat. The financial aid system is a game, and learning the rules can save a lot of money. Lets assume that your taxable income was 27k.(36 weeks x 40 hours a week x $26 an hour) You will be in the 15% tax bracket, so the total tax liability on your income would be approximately(i'm assuming only federal income tax) 23k (27000*.85). This is the number that is used on the fasfa. You had mentioned that you suffered from some health issues and incurred medical expenses. Those are deductible, and should reduce your tax bill, as well as the amount of money that colleges should expect for you to spend on education. Furthermore college 529 plans are something to look at when trying to fund college education. Contributions to these plans are tax free, so it will lessen your tax bill, especially if you don't work while you are in school. Also the 529's in your name are expected to go towards your education at the same rate as your parents income[1] this will help soften the blow of losing the financial aid. Finally, don't shy away from student loans, especially subsidized federal loans. At around 4%, it is hard to find cheaper money, and wih subsidized loans, the interest on these loans are tax deductible. At the end of the day, the moral of your story shouldn't be "Don't take paid internships they'll screw you in the end" and instead it should be "when you start get paid a significant salary hire a tax professional to make sure I hold on to as much of my moolah as possible." You can put up to 5k in a Traditional IRA. Your deposits will be tax deductible, and withdraws for education forgo penalties of withdrawing money before your 59 and 1/2. You will also pay for tax on it at the level of income for the year you take the disbursements, so if you don't work your senior year or make less money it could work out to your favor. The downside of this strategy is that any money you put into the IRA that year will be counted as income. So no gaming the system on this one. [1]http://www.savingforcollege.com/intro_to_529s/does-a-529-plan-affect-financial-aid.php http://www.savingforcollege.com/intro_to_529s/does-a-529-pla...
  • hga 13y ago
    It's very much not my impression that most people can deduct health expenses. Here from the horse's mouth (http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/2013-changes-to-itemized-deduction-for-medical-expenses http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/2013-changes-to-itemized-dedu...): "Beginning Jan. 1, 2013, you can claim deductions for medical expenses not covered by your health insurance that exceed 10 percent of your adjusted gross income." Previously it was 7.5%, but it's nothing if you can't file a Schedule A to itemize, and my very rough understanding is that few who aren't paying down a mortgage can do so.
• zw123456 13y ago
  I entered Engineering school at a state University in 1974 and graduated in 1978 with a BSEE and NO loans. I was able to do so by working and going to school, tuition was $216 per semester, which even then was very affordable. It is a crime that today, this would be impossible. It is one of the greatest injustices today.
• LanceH 13y ago
  It was my experience that every dollar I made came out of any potential financial assistance package I could get. So making $15k in an entire year, they expected that I could apply all $15k toward the school, which wouldn't have covered tuition. There was zero incentive to work as far as paying for school went, unless I could make substantially more than required for school. I ended up just paying for school out of savings (I had worked 4 years before my junior year). Another thing about savings is that they expected I could spend 100% of my savings immediately. They don't even pro rate savings across the multiple years required for a degree. Financial aid is for them, not for the student.
• graycat 13y ago
  Point 1: Likely what you want to learn you can learn well without going back to school. Indeed, at a high end research university, it is in effect or explicitly assumed that you can teach yourself. If you are in software, then likely you are heavily self-taught. Well, being self-taught in nearly all parts of academic engineering is easier than in practical software if only because in nearly all of academic engineering the learning materials are much, much better written. To do self-study in academic engineering, it is crucial to get some of the best materials, usually, still, textbooks. For this, investigate and pick carefully. Indeed, you should have little trouble finding what the favorite textbooks are for what you want to learn -- likely can get enough just by going to the Web sites of the most relevant universities, departments, courses, and professors. For the engineering schools, don't be reluctant to go right to the top -- MIT, Cornell, CMU, Georgia Tech, Stanford. If you need more, then maybe send a nice e-mail to some professors, in a few words explain your situation, maybe include a list of the candidate books you have found, and ask for suggestions, say, the textbooks he's been using, on the list or off. Point 2. If you want an 'expensive' Bachelor's degree, say, for $50,000 a year at an Ivy League university, instead shoot for a Masters or better yet a Ph.D. from such a school. Why? In important ways, the graduate degree is faster, easier, and cheaper than the Bachelor's. In my experience, at the best schools, Ph.D. students rarely pay tuition anyway. And from the famous Ivy League schools, it's generally easier to get accepted for a Ph.D. than for a Bachelors. Point 3: If you want a Bachelor's degree or need one (say, to get accepted for a Master's or Ph.D.), then one option is just go to about the cheapest school you can, maybe starting with just a two year community college and then transferring to a four year college to finish your Bachelor's. "Don't pay a lot for this muffler" -- uh, Bachelor's degree. Everyone in higher education understands that there are good students with little money or family background in academics and respect such students. If you learned well, then as you finish your Bachelor's you can get some high GRE scores which will look great applying to a Ph.D. program and make up for starting at a community college. Point 4. Even following Point 3, to save money and get better results, still emphasize self-study. That is, before taking the course, study the course on your own first. Then take the course, lead the class, ace the course, amaze the professor, and get glowing recommendations, say, to a good four year college for your last two years, or from a four year college to a Ph.D. program, as the best student he ever had, maybe get a scholarship. Besides, this way might get to take extra courses at once, save tuition money, time on campus, and expenses commuting to campus and look still smarter, all because you just studied the material before you took the course. Of course, this self-study stuff can work great for the more theoretical and mathematical parts of engineering but work less well where you might need time in an expensive lab. So, emphasize the theoretical and mathematical parts and for the rest do what you can without a lab. Then in school, when you take the lab course, you still have a head start. E.g., on self-study, I got a Ph.D. in essentially applied math, but I never really took freshman calculus. Instead, in my freshman year the poor school I was at insisted I take some 'college algebra' which was beneath what I'd covered in four years of math at a relatively good public high school. So, not to fall behind, I got a decent calculus book and dug in. For my sophomore year, I went to a much better college and started on their sophomore calculus (right, never got course credit for freshman calculus), was likely the best student in the class, was a math major, wrote an honors paper on group representations, and got 800 on the Math knowledge GRE. So, I covered freshman calculus well just on my own from just a calculus book. You can too. Indeed, if you take a calculus course, mostly you learn from the book anyway. Just study the material from the book before the course instead of mostly from the book (which usually you have to do anyway) during the course. If you get hung up, then ask for some help, on-line, from some videos (if they help -- not all of them are good), knock on the door of a prof and ask a question, etc. Tell him you are studying on your own and want to be clear on, say, f'(x) = lim (f(x + h) - f(x))/h h --> 0 or some such. Mostly a prof's office hours are not very busy, and a prof might answer one good question for you even if you are not in such a class or even in his school. If he refuses, then to heck with him! There are some poor textbooks out there, and some of the better books will still have a poor chapter or two. A bad book or chapter can be a chuckhole in the road but only if you let it. If some material seems not well written, like drilling through bedrock, or needing prerequisites you don't have, then get 1-3 alternate sources, maybe just by photocopying some chapters from some books in a library or buying some books as supplements. E.g., there is a book on linear algebra by E. Nearing, and it quite good except it has a chapter in an appendix on linear programming that is just awful. Nearing understood a lot of linear algebra but not linear programming! So, get copies of, say, the three best books. Learn mostly from the best book and use the other two for alternate explanations (so that you won't get stuck and won't misunderstand). Now, textbooks are darned expensive, the latest editions, in hardcover, commonly over $100 a copy. Three such books could set you back $300 -- bummer. So, instead, in nearly all undergraduate courses in engineering, get used texts, in good condition, 5-10 years old. Such books will still be plenty good and will save you a bundle of money. E.g., I took sophomore calculus from the text by Johnson and Kiokemeister. At the time, it was also used at Harvard. It's a beautifully written, highly polished book. Tough to write a better calculus book. So right away from a Google search at http://www.amazon.com/Johnson-Kiokemeisters-Calculus-Analytic-Geometry/dp/020504218X can see Johnson & Kiokemeister's Calculus with Analytic Geometry [Hardcover] 6 used from $9.25 So, can get it for $10. Don't pay a lot for a great textbook. Actually I got my copy 'used' from a student who had tried the course the previous year and learned that he should major in English or some such instead! More generally, due to such circumstances, a lot of used technical books are actually in quite good condition. You don't have to work all the exercises, but you should work enough exercises so that you are sure you can work all or nearly all of them. A good textbook will have in the back answers to half or more of the exercises; so check your work with the answers. Occasionally an answer is wrong. If you suspect such, then maybe e-mail the author! Or ask a local prof to check your solution and impress him that you beat the textbook! Occasionally let a difficult exercise go unsolved or ask for help; in some books, 1-2% of the exercises are in there poorly written, out of place (need material not yet covered in the book or not in the book), or are to see if a student can recreate some brilliantly clever argument mostly unrelated to the book. Don't let yourself get hung up on 1-2% of the exercises afraid you missed something -- give such an exercise a good shot, then just ask for help or drop it. Continue this theme of self study, especially if you want to go for a Ph.D. E.g., at one time the Web site of the Princeton math department just flatly stated that the graduate courses were introductions to research by world experts; no courses were given for preparation for the qualifying exams; and for the qualifying exams students were expected to prepare on their own. Indeed, in that case, why bother to be on campus in expensive Princeton, NJ? So, broadly, you can get a Bachelor's paying little or no tuition. Then for a Ph.D., or even some Master's degrees, the big trump card is having published some research in a good, peer-reviewed, academic journal of original research. For how to do the research, that would need another post! In the whole thing, nearly all the work was self-study from used textbooks, and the tuition you paid was tiny. You cut down on time and cost commuting to campus, eating campus food, etc. You aced nearly all your courses, and you avoided a huge list of potential 'political' and other problems. Learning is not a spectator sport but an individual thing with hard work, done alone in a quiet room. You can blow a lot of time and money going to class when what you really need is just hard work, alone, in a quiet room, which, indeed, the courses won't much replace anyway. Not everyone learns the same way. But, since you learned the material before you took the course, the profs never get to see how you learned; you never fell behind in a course; you aced courses, and you never got criticized for your learning style. Net, lack of money is no great reason not to get a degree, even a Ph.D., in engineering. Indeed, the main challenge is just the learning and, then, research; if you can do that, mostly on your own, then money for your degree is not a biggie.
• jmilloy 13y ago
  I don't get it. Why can't you get loans? You don't pay them back while you are in school, and afterwards the minimum cost per month is pretty low. I had full, $16k per term FAFSA support for 12 terms, and then needed one more to finish some things up (poor planning). Federal student loans saw me through. Although, yes, it's immensely frustrating that they take whatever money they can. I spent all the money I saved up from high school right before college so they couldn't take it away.
  • hga 13y ago
    My school requires the College Board CSS PROFILE, and for one thing, my parents would have never filled it out. I also needed twice that if we assume last academic year's costs; perhaps when the financial aid people I spoke to said I was SOL they meant they couldn't come close to what was required, although by policy the school's financial aid is 100% means tested. I don't remember there even being any pure merit scholarships.
  • ingrid 13y ago
    I did get offered the option to only take out a $104 subsidized Stafford loan for the school year. Unfortunately, I cannot take out an alternative loan. I am a US citizen and of the people that have offered to cosign a loan for me they were rejected. So alternative loans are not an option.
• mgraczyk 13y ago
  I had a similar experience. After an 8 month internship making ~$30/hr full time I ended up roughly about where I would have been financially had I not done the internship and just stayed in school. I was really upset when I went back to school, but now that I've graduated I look back on it and am just thankful that I was able to spend those 8 months living somewhere new doing something fun. (I would probably feel differently had I been unable to go back to school after the 8 months). That being said, I think it really is horrifying that our education system rewards those students who stay behind and attend summer school more than those who secure good internships. I've never met a talented developer or engineer who didn't have at least 2 summer internships in undergrad. I have, however, met a ton of shitty engineers who took plenty of summer classes.
• gems 13y ago
  I am actually in a similar situation... except I'm in math. I can program though :/. And by "similar" I mean that I may have to drop out because I cannot afford it. Loans from the government are not enough. Can't get private loans. Can't get money from the parents.
• lettergram 13y ago
  I'm in a similar situation, I just bit the bullet and took the loans.
• dannypurcell 13y ago
  Ingrid, If you are reading this then please take another shot at the FAFSA. You are quite right that the computer systems and standard rules screwed you over. That is why Financial Aid Advisers (the ones at your school) can make judgement calls on a case by case basis to override the computer system. Specifically, there are two qualities of your described situation which qualify you for such an override. 1. You mentioned that you are couch surfing with friends. This means you are homeless 2. You made a good amount on previous employment and your story seems to suggest that said employment is no longer active. This means you have recently lost your job. According to FAFSA guides for financial aid advisers, professional judgement may be used to adjust parameters which are used to calculate your expected family contribution. Your situation appears to apply to several typical cases in which professional judgement is recommended. 1. "A student is considered homeless if he or she lacks fixed, regular, and adequate housing. This includes students who are living in shelters, motels, cars, or parks, or who are temporarily living with other people because they have nowhere else to go." -https://fafsa.ed.gov/fotw1314/help/fahelp29a.htm https://fafsa.ed.gov/fotw1314/help/fahelp29a.htm 2. "Special circumstances may include tuition expenses at an elementary or secondary school, medical, dental, or nursing home expenses not covered by insurance, unusually high child care or dependent care costs, recent unemployment of a family member or an independent student, a student or family member who is a dislocated worker (as defined in section 101 of the Workforce Investment Act of 1998), the number of parents enrolled at least half time in a degree, certificate, or other program leading to a recognized educational credential at an institution with a program participation agreement under section 487, a change in housing status that results in an individual being homeless (as defined in section 103 of the McKinney-Vento Homeless Assistance Act), or other changes in a family’s income, a family’s assets or a student’s status. Special circumstances shall be conditions that differentiate an individual student from a class of students rather than conditions that exist across a class of students. Adequate documentation for such adjustments shall substantiate such special circumstances of individual students." -http://ifap.ed.gov/fsahandbook/attachments/1314AVGCh5.pdf http://ifap.ed.gov/fsahandbook/attachments/1314AVGCh5.pdf -http://www2.ed.gov/policy/highered/leg/hea98/sec478.html http://www2.ed.gov/policy/highered/leg/hea98/sec478.html All of this amounts to the your case calling for professional judgement by your financial aid advisers. I do not know what made them turn you away before but it may be as simple as not knowing. I had a similar situation in school myself, it turned out that the first adviser I worked with was somewhat new to their job and just did not know they could make a judgement call. Never give up. If it seems like the system is broken, make it work for you. I hope this information helps. For anyone else who happens to know Ingrid Avendano or how to get her a message, please pass this info along.
• hjay 13y ago
  I'm in the exact same situation. Except in my case, in Canada, and (only) after 1 year of full-time courses. I also did a paid internship, for $18 an hour at a major software company in Vancouver, B.C. Now the Canadian government has decided that I have more than enough (assuming a cost of living of 0 for a 20 year old that has to support an elderly mother). So basically, I have an income of 0 (aside from my freelance work), costs running at ~$1600 CAN per month for basic shelter + food for 2 people, AND the Canadian government is constantly on my back for student loan repayment. I did not choose to dropout of college, I was (essentially) forced to by the government. Best part is, now any employer I talk to asks about the 1 year I spent in college. I'm sure they assume that as a 20 year old, I am either lazy, stupid, or irresponsible. But that couldn't be further from the truth. I've worked 18~22 hour days everyday of my life since I was 16, and I'm tired. Not tired of a (somewhat) difficult life, but tired of the assumptions people make. People in the government, people who have power of employment, people around me who judge a book by its cover.
• dclowd9901 13y ago
  As a college grad with a degree in Journalism working as an engineer in Silicon Valley, maybe my opinion on your situation can give you assurance: So the fuck what. They just did you a favor.
• slajax 13y ago
  "And then it will hit you. You spent 150k on an education you could have gotten for $1.50 in late fees at the public library" - Good Will Hunting
  • hga 13y ago
    Limited application to STEM subjects. Yeah, CS and EE can finagle that nowadays (wasn't true for CS when I might have gone that route in the early '80s), but the sciences require lab work that you generally aren't going to be able to do, let alone afford, anywhere else but a school. And there are serious safety issues as well, plus the minor detail for them that an undergraduate degree is just a requirement to get your (paid for) terminal Ph.D., unless you're willing to end up being a lab tech.
• cyberpanther 13y ago
  Your going to have to bite the bullet and take a private loan if you want to finish school. It sucks, but that is the reality. I'm still paying my private loans off after 10 years, so it may not be worth it.
• m_ke 13y ago
  Tell me about it. I just got my financial package last week and my aid went from 46k to 2k, so I'll have to take out over $50,000 to pay for one year of tuition.
• catwell 13y ago
  I am French and liberal, my views on economy are considered extreme liberalism in my country, but I when I read things like this I am even more thankful for our education system. The French scientific higher-education system is weird and misunderstood even in other European countries, so here's a (very simplified) explanation of the road I followed and how much it cost. After high school, if you have good enough grades (say top 10%) you can enter something called Classes Préparatoires, which is a rather intense scientific (Math + Physics) preparation for competitive exams for the Grandes Écoles. It lasts two years, three if you decide to repeat the second year because you are not satisfied with your results at the exams (repeating the first year is forbidden, if your fail you have to go to a regular University - which is also cheap anyway -, but only 10-20% fail the 1st year). There is a lot to say about how the way we are taught in Classes Préparatoires should change, but there is something right about them: they are completely free. Oh, and if you (your family) cannot afford rent and/or food, you can get funding from the government for this. After Classes Préparatoires, if you succeed at the competitive exams, you get into a "Grande École" (Engineering School). Studies usually last three or four years and you get a Diplôme d'Ingénieur at the end (basically what you call MSc in the US). All the top Grandes Écoles are public and depend on different ministries (Education, Industry or Defense). The cost of studying there is below €1000/year. You can still be subsidized if needed, and you are encouraged (actually it is even mandatory) to make paid internships which pay for your studies. Actually, the two top Engineering Schools (Polytechnique and École Nationale Supérieure) even pay students who study there. Oh, and you are encouraged to go abroad. You can do an internship in another country or go there to specialize during your 3rd year. In my case I went to a British University to specialize in Distributed Computing. The cost of studying there is much higher but since I was a guest student from another European University I didn't pay (except campus rent). It also works with the US, although I am not sure how: some friends did the same thing at Standford and MIT. In the end, I got two MSc-s (one in France and one in UK), and my tuition fees for the entire thing amount to about €3000. There are very few things I think a State should pay for, but top higher education is definitely one of them.