13 ms·

“Please let me know if I should stop developing apps for Google Products”

437 points by anuaitt 13y ago

ew 13y ago
We also receive very little love from Google. They are notorious for not helping developers, which is tragic.
- anuaitt 13y ago
  yes it is sad, I have worked days and nights for this and I am not being able to reach more users because of the quota on the apps.
  - TwoBit 13y ago
    What is the current quota? Where is it documented?
    - afhof 13y ago
      5000 queries a day https://developers.google.com/google-apps/tasks/pricing https://developers.google.com/google-apps/tasks/pricing
    - anuaitt 13y ago
      Current quota is 1m requests/day and that is enough to handle just 2000 users/day, because I sync gmail tasks every minute.
      - bryanh 13y ago
        I know it sucks, but in the meantime have you considered slowing those sync tasks down if the user's "last activity" timestamp is older than a few minutes? You might even be able to make it sync faster for active users with the extra overhead afforded there. Logins, refreshes, clicks, new things synced, etc... can all update the last activity timestamp.
      - fharper1961 13y ago
        Is it possible to pay Google and receive a higher quota?
        anuaitt 13y ago
        There is a communication gap between them and the developers, the problem is there is no real person to talk and sort things out.
        eitally 13y ago
        Email me. I know someone who might be able to help you.
        anuaitt 13y ago
        Hello @eitally, I am not able to get your email from Hacker News, please send a test email to me at anurag.ait@gmail.com. Thanks for helping out
        lightbritefight 13y ago
        The sad fact that you, a random HN commentor, likely has a better means to contact Google than their official Dev channels, perfectly illustrates the OP's point. Kudos for assisting, its just frustrating to realize its needed.
        thejbf 13y ago
        I'm a DevRel person working for Google's Apps APIs, please contact me.
        anuaitt 13y ago
        Hello @thejbf, I am not able to get your email from Hacker News, please send a test email to me at anurag.ait@gmail.com. Thanks for helping out
        cmkrnl 13y ago
  - iuguy 13y ago
    I notice you're syncing tasks every minute. Perhaps a short-term workaround is to sync every 2 or every 5 minutes while you wait for the quota to increase?
    - anuaitt 13y ago
      That can be done but it will affect user experience right ? Better will be if I stop further registrations for the app.
      - hrjet 13y ago
        An alternative: For non-premium users sync every 5 minutes. For premium users sync every minute. Use Indian payment gateways if possible, though Paypal works fine too.
        rattray 13y ago
        This is exactly what you should do. Your users will understand -- that's why so many have supported you on the googlegroup. Charge $3/mo and you won't hear any complaints (and if you do, you can point to your googlegroup). This is by far your easiest and clearest path to monetization, at least that I can see. And it seems you're long overdue for monetization.
        anuaitt 13y ago
        Thanks hrjet, that is a great idea. But again I will have to struggle about the payment gateways. Thanks to HN guys for helping me out.
      - cpeterso 13y ago
        Can you adjust the sync rate depending on the time of day where your users live? There are probably certain times of the day when people update their tasks less frequently.
  - Schweigi 13y ago
    I'm not sure if it works with the Google API's but usually e.g. with the GitHub API you can send the ETag in your GET request header and if nothing changed (304) it does not count to the quota. It wouldn't solve all the problems but could at least help to stay inside the quota.
    - anuaitt 13y ago
      I am already doing that, because of that only I am able to survive 2000 users. I want to expand and publicize my app and give users an excellent experience.
- utopkara 13y ago
  Google does give a lot of love to developers. AFAIK, they have dedicated developer teams for developer relations; just look at the quality of their API documentations and support. This one looks like a operations issue. Perhaps they do not have a corresponding relations team focused on operations support.
  - masklinn 13y ago
    > Google does give a lot of love to developers. That simply isn't true. They have support for some very specific areas which they consider of specific importance (e.g. Android), for the rest you're left to rot. > Perhaps they do not have a corresponding relations team focused on operations support. This has nothing to do with ops, it's a developer needing a raise in his apps requests quota.
    - robryan 13y ago
      The core areas can have the opposite problem almost. The Adwords API has moved pretty quickly but they are also quick to remove things. Most stuff built in early 2012 would have had to be updated for changed/ removed features by now.
      - utopkara 13y ago
        I admit I haven't really traveled much on the less beaten paths. From the quality of what I have seen, I thought they must have policies for the minimum acceptable quality of all the public facing services to developers. On the other hand, I am happy that even the big G cannot afford to cover all fronts. It means, there is still room for new players to grow and do well in those areas.
  - yareally 13y ago
    I know they have one group dedicated to the Android Source and they constantly answer questions related to development on their Google Group and elsewhere (like twitter). AOSP related stuff mostly comes off as good will towards the community as it's mostly those of us modding the source for ourselves and others in the community that are asking the questions.
- markshepard 13y ago
  I agree about the quality of documentation. If it wasnt for Stackoverflow it would have taken far more effort to develop a iOS quality app for android and this is for a product that they actually push!
erikb 13y ago
This is so tragic but basically verifies my own experiences with Google. If you are not a paying customer, they don't listen to you. Even if you do something that is more to their advantage then to yours. Maybe some paying customers who use gmailsharedtasks could direct their Google support to the thread.
- anuaitt 13y ago
  If you see the thread there are "27 posts by 24 authors", many users are supporting my app and are sending thank you email. I have been even trying to reach Google employees personally but having no luck :(
- eksith 13y ago
  It's been mentioned before that, considering the volume Google serves in all their services, it's unrealistic to expect any sort of customer service beyond the FAQ and bot variety, but I'm sure there are those who are willing to pay for an actual response. But, as one of my clients would attest, even if you're a paying customer, you may still be left hanging in the wind. I hope they don't start spreading the YouTube feedback treatment to all their services.
  - rmah 13y ago
    Google is on track to see a $14 bil pre-tax profit for 2013. If they spent 15% of that ($2.1 bil) on support, with say a mix of 2/3 low pay ($100k/yr cost) and 1/3 high pay ($150k/yr cost) people... they could hire 18,000 additional support staff and still show a great profit. That works out to 30 mil support hours assuming 1680 hrs/yr (35 hrs * 48 weeks) actually spent on support. They could probably hire twice that many people by hiring some people in less expensive areas. To sum up, Google puts making a more money ahead of better support. It's their right to do so, but it not "unrealistic" for them to provide much better support.
    - RogerL 13y ago
      Your numbers don't quite work - Google has to pay taxes, benefits, office space, training, perks, equipment, recruitment costs, and so on. And then, have you tried to hire 18,000 people? Finally, Google's reported head count is around 40K - you are suggesting adding about 50% just for support. That's a tough sell to your investors. Where would all these people go. Mountain View is basically Google these days - the office I am sitting in will be razed for a Google parking lot (goodbye beautiful trees :( ). You have to factor in how many new buildings, how many new buses and bus drivers, city taxes, chefs, HR personnel - it goes on and on. The phrase "google scale" doesn't just apply to their apps. I'm not disputing that they could improve their support, just the price tag and scale that you have placed on it.
foobarbazqux 13y ago
If you work on something for 3-4 months, that's $30-40K at valley rates. To do this for free with the intention to enhance the product offering of a megacorp basically sends the message that you don't value your time. Of course said megacorp is not going to give you the time of day. They start to pay attention when the dollar value of your account is large enough. Start charging for your app. Then you can say, "I want to make us both some more money, could you please help me?"
- anuaitt 13y ago
  It is difficult to charge money from India as Individuals, paypal does not accept money for India nowadays and it is near to impossible to attach a international payment gateway. I thought of donation as well but again paypal issue.
  - VMG 13y ago
    You should check out Bitcoin as a payment option, it was pretty much designed for your use case: http://www.weusecoins.com/en/ http://www.weusecoins.com/en/ BitPay as a payment processor in particular: https://bitpay.com/ https://bitpay.com/
    - anuaitt 13y ago
      Thanks for the information VMG.
      - winter_blue 13y ago
        You should beware that converting bitcoins into INR is going to prove difficult in India. I have not yet heard of a single bitcoin exchange for Indian (INR) users. Correct me if I am wrong.
        VMG 13y ago
        that's what BitPay.com is for - pays out in local currency
AliAdams 13y ago
I think Google has such a strong consumer following now that it isn't as interested in keeping the developers happy. We were early adopters so got a good amount of attention at the start but that certainly seems to have waned with Google's popularity.
- hvidgaard 13y ago
  It just doesn't make sense. Without developers all the innovation happens elsewhere, and at some point the consumers will switch. Google cannot keep up with innovation internally, and they're not attracting new talent with such a hostile developer stance.
  - ankitml 13y ago
    Seriously? Making a driverless car isnt innovation?
mikeknoop 13y ago
I put in an API quota bump for Google Calendar a few months back and it was silently accepted after 2-3 days. Based on my experience, each team individually deals with quotas for their API. Google Tasks is not really a dedicated product so it probably has little to no permanent team behind it. This is probably the cause for the slow response time on quota requests.
- robryan 13y ago
  Yeah, we requested an API limit increase for Adwords. When we got an email about some specifics and how we stayed within their terms I figured it might just get rejected. Thankfully it was a real person who actually knew what they were talking about and were able to sort it out over a chain of emails. So yeah, I guess it is team by team.
nikcub 13y ago
Google are terrible at developer support, but I think it is fair to say that they didn't foresee anybody using the Tasks API in this way, where you are proxying for all your users. Keep persisting, but as a temporary measure I would prompt your users to provide you with their own API key. Lots of apps do this (such as CMS plugins). You can give them a link to the API portal and explain in 2-3 points how to generate a key and paste it back in your app. Also, your app is in debug mode, so errors are showing a complete stack trace. Your database is also down right now.
- anuaitt 13y ago
  It is up again. Thanks for letting me know, It was due to the High load.
- karangoeluw 13y ago
  > Google are terrible at support. FTFY
  - tedsanders 13y ago
    Could you offer arguments or anecdotes about why you think Google is terrible at support? Snarky, four-character comments like yours do not add much value to the discussion.
    - MAGZine 13y ago
      Ever try to contact a human at google regarding their services/products? Or even your account? It's quite difficult to find an email form that will lead to a human let lone a phone number.
      - genericone 13y ago
        I think that tedsander would have wanted that your explanation follow the snarky four character comment, so that there would at least be something of merit to respond to. Comments like "this" "lol" "ftfy" "rtfa" "ruh roh" are the kinds of responses that generally annoy users of HN looking for intelligible discourse.
sdfjkl 13y ago
If you build something on someone else's API, you can get fucked in a million ways. They might shut down the API (Google Reader), take away the functionality you relied on (Google Calendar), limit it (Twitter) or deprecate the version you're using, forcing you to do development work to keep working at the worst possible time for you (IOS). They might also decide that your product is very good and build a version of it themselves, using functions not available to you via the public API so that you cannot compete with it (Apple). So before building something that relies on things entirely outside of your control, consider a few things and the effort it would take for each: - Can you run it on something else (S3 is a good example - there are several API-compatible competitors) - Can you replace the service you're relying on with one of your own (e.g. building your own Google Reader sync API) Then decide if it isn't worth building the whole thing yourself. Heck, you might even want to put an API on it yourself. Feel the power? :) Oh, and never, ever rely on someone else doing authentication for you. It's just too easy to get your entire userbase taken away from you.
- nephics 13y ago
  Authentication via third parties are not an inherently Bad Thing. Mozilla Persona shows how third party authentication can be done, without risk of user base hijacking,
  - nly 13y ago
    While it's true that Mozilla can't maintain a list of what services their users are using, there are still security implications to using Persona. Mozilla (or anyone who with their private key) can still enable access any user account on any Persona enabled site. Persona is perfect for blogs, but using it for a service people may be paying for, or handles any private user information (postal address, private messages or posts on a forum etc) is a bad idea.
- JohnLBevan 13y ago
  Build your solution suitably decoupled, such that if you lose access to the API you can easily switch to another provided. Ideally build solutions across two competitors services such that if you get any surprises it's clear that your solution works / users are able to migrate to the alternate provider. For authentication I'd argue in some ways it's better to provide the option of third-party. This means users don't have to submit credentials to you. Given most people (against advice to the contrary) use the same username and password for most sites signing up to an unknown company's service feels riskier as they're then giving that company their credentials, which someone may then try on other sites - having a token which allows them to sign in with their Google/FB/Twitter/etc account saves this worry / only requires the user to hit an "authorise" button.
alex_doom 13y ago
Doesn't Google have a way of paying for more usage of the API? I know the Maps Geolocation API does. Maybe I'm naive, but if you're using a free service of a mega-corp I would expect the customer service to be nil. Priority goes to the paying customers.
- anuaitt 13y ago
  There is a communication gap between them and the developers, the problem is there is no real person to talk and sort things out.
EugeneOZ 13y ago
I don't understand why all these users who love so much that app can't just pay $3-$5 monthly to help this app survive?
- Yeroc 13y ago
  It's not clear how a willingness for the end-users to pay $3-5 monthly would help the situation given that he can't use $$ to increase his quota-controlled access to the api.
davidjgraph 13y ago
We developed a product specifically for Google Drive using their JavaScript client. We were hoping to make it commercial but had to abandon those plans due to 3 bugs that have been present since around the beginning of 2013. Also, there's no open bug tracker. The developer relations people are very friendly, but when I ask where to report bugs I'm told "just tell me". So every 2 months I've reported the same 3 bugs in person and they get swallowed up and that's the last I hear about it until my next report. The silly thing is that we were one of the showcased applications in Google I/O this year, for the Drive section. A number of Googlers came past and said "Wow, cool. Please, please commercialise this". The truth is, we can't and it's because of the bugs in Google's code (well, partly, the other problem is Drive has just been too unstable over the past 4 months, until there's 99.9% uptime for a year, we can't consider it). Don't get me wrong, I love what Google are doing with their API stuff and the dev relations really go out of their way to help (specifically the Drive SDK team). But, as it stands, this isn't a platform I'm confident in building a critical business product on, currently. EDIT : That last sentence is wrong. I'm confident to build a critical business product on it, I think it'll get there, I'm just not confident to charge money and have to support it, at this point in time.
- masklinn 13y ago
  > until there's 99.9% uptime for a year And three nines is still 45mn of downtime per month.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
  - gcb0 13y ago
    wha't s a "mn"? mili-newton?
    - Anm 13y ago
      He meant minutes. 45min.
      - 13y ago
kishor_gurtu 13y ago
You're probably better off creating a product for a more professionally managed marketplace - like the Office365 marketplace - http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/fp179924.aspx http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/fp179924.aspx. This lets you develop apps on Exchange (similar to your tasks app). See http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/jj220499(EXCHG.80).aspx http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/jj220499(EXCHG.80).a... and http://code.msdn.microsoft.com/office/Exchange-2013-Create-tasks-39b938ea http://code.msdn.microsoft.com/office/Exchange-2013-Create-t... Office365 customers (all of them are paying customers) who find it useful can install the app on their accounts. You don't have to stuggle with PayPal issues as Microsoft will pay you through the marketplace account after charging the customers. Office365 support is excellent as well (they even do phone support). No need to chase anyone on Google+. (I'm not shilling for Microsoft. I have no financial interests here).
- hahainternet 13y ago
  > (I'm not shilling for Microsoft. I have no financial interests here). Paid or unpaid, this post is pretty much shilling.
  - kishor_gurtu 13y ago
    Fine. If that's what you want to call it. I just want to point out alternatives. Take it or leave it.
    - hahainternet 13y ago
      You weren't just pointing out alternatives but actively dissuading someone. That's where I think it crosses the line.
      - arkades 13y ago
        The title of the post is "Should I stop developing for google?" If you answer it, you're actively dissuading someone. He answered and posed an alternative.
oakaz 13y ago
Google is terrible at support in general. I've been reporting a blogspot website stealing my documents and impersonating me for making money by ads for over two years. I sent my passport two times, and some friends also sent a report for me. Result? not even a verification e-mail. They simply host website that attacks my intellectual property, my name and give me no piece of shit.
- hahainternet 13y ago
  Identity fraud is a criminal matter. Talk to the police. If they have stolen copyrighted material, file a DMCA.
  - oakaz 13y ago
    It's a technical doc without copyrights, that I wrote 8 years ago...
    - hahainternet 13y ago
      Then call the police if they are committing identity fraud.
    - prewett 13y ago
      IANAL, but I did take an IP law course. If I recall correctly, you have copyright from the moment that you create the work. You can have it officially registered at a later date, however, you might be limited in collecting damages to infractions after the registration date. I'm not sure what happens if they registered the copyright. Presumably you could sue them if you can demonstrate that you were the true creator. I don't understand the part about sending a passport. I do think that filing a DMCA notice is certainly the easiest way. Google has to listen to that.
      - oakaz 13y ago
        I sent a copy of my passport to Google since they want me to prove I report impersonation. I really hate dealing with legal cases and also since I'm a Turkish guy living in US, and the website impersonating me is also Turkish, I don't wanna spend my time on this shitty case. I just believe this; Google should start being friend with people.
OGC 13y ago
I find it very hard to believe that a bunch of random people find the time to comment (and all praise that app) on a Google Groups thread. Calling bullshit.
- anuaitt 13y ago
  They are not random people, they are the users of gmailsharedtasks. They have used it and love it. They have commented due to my request so that google come to know that the app works great and is loved and needs attention.
pyalot2 13y ago
You should stop developing apps for Google
- znowi 13y ago
  Or any other PRISM company. Unless you want to aid the NSA.
  - mpyne 13y ago
    That effectively means "any other US/UK/AUS/NZ/CAN" company, not just PRISM-interfacing ones.
  - xauronx 13y ago
    yawn
  - general_failure 13y ago
    There I said it 'snowden'.
anuaitt 13y ago
If anyone in Google is reading this please don't mistake me, I know Google is a innovative company and through this post I don't want to give any negative impression about Google. I want Gmail Tasks to be world recognized and people to use it more frequently. I see that there are very less standalone apps developed for Tasks, this is a small effort by me to make Google Tasks better and more usable. If you find value in what I am doing and see it innovative enough, please help. Thanks for giving me an opportunity to build an app on google.
- tomorgan 13y ago
  I think your HN title would suggest otherwise. I also think there are development enhancements you could make to your application to work around these problems. Maybe you won't get any response from Google until you have 2M users? What are you going to do about it? There have been some excellent suggestions in the comments for working around this (longer waits before retries, premium level retries etc). Do these first, increase user base, then contact Google when it's less easy for them to ignore you.
- kvcrawford 13y ago
  You should require users to generate their own API keys. Problem solved! http://i.qkme.me/3r6sxj.jpg http://i.qkme.me/3r6sxj.jpg
iwantatophat 13y ago
Developed an app for Android and placed it on Android market. It had 5000 users after a week and then it got removed without notice, no email, no reason why, no nothing. First and last time I do anything with Google, malicious company not only for that reason but for many other.
- adam12 13y ago
  What was the app?
  - iwantatophat 13y ago
    A music player.
- NicoJuicy 13y ago
  Karma of zero, with an account created 11 hours ago. You, you really aren't persuasive for anyone.
  - iwantatophat 13y ago
    Yes, you saw through me. I created this account 11 hours ago to make a fake response to a news article submitted 4 hours ago. I do not see how my credability increases if its 1 or 1000 days, you are still need to have the trust of an anonymous user which you pick to have or not. Usually you pick not to have to if it disagrees with your already established oppinion. I usually lurk, I probably make an average of 5 comments per month. When I do make a comment, not only on HN I usually make a new account.
    - NicoJuicy 13y ago
      Any prove of your Android app then? Google always sound to me as the "least" evil. No evil (their slogan) is rubbish, definatly considering the business stakes that are in Android / Google TV / Chrome OS / Youtube ( ebooks, music, movies, series, ...). The entertainment business will always try to get some influence in the search engine as a "good-will" of Google before negotiating any contracts. To bad that's reality though.
vog 13y ago
The problems with Google start at the very basics of communication, with their policy of providing just one email adress (and nothing else) where you may or may not get an answer, effectively handling incoming requests more like petitions than providing real communication. This is in constrast to many other big companies where you get at least some reply (although it's often canned and not very helpful, but still more than a generic auto reply), or where you can call a more or less expensive hotline, so you can at least pay them for hearing your voice. This behaviour of Google is so restrictive that it even violates consumer protection laws in some countries. For example, here in Germany they got into trouble because they violated the so-called "Impressumspflicht". This law requests that they have to provide (among others) at least one postal address and one telephone number on their website, and that they can actually be contacted by those, in 60 minutes or less. http://translate.google.de/translate?hl=de&sl=de&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.googlewatchblog.de%2F2013%2F04%2Fgoogle-deutschland-abmahnung-verletzung%2F http://translate.google.de/translate?hl=de&sl=de&tl=en&u=htt... http://translate.google.de/translate?hl=de&sl=de&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.recht-freundlich.de%2Fgoogle-durch-verbraucherzentrale-abgemahnt-impressumspflicht-moeglicherweise-verletzt http://translate.google.de/translate?hl=de&sl=de&tl=en&u=htt...
- Klarifier 13y ago
  Google can do what they want. If you want to do better, than do it. Complaining won't help you.
  - moocowduckquack 13y ago
    Please never run a restaurant.
    - general_failure 13y ago
      He isn't. And neither is Google.
  - codingblues 13y ago
    it sounds like you have never led a team before
alan_cx 13y ago
If you are genuinely asking that question I suspect you already have the answer.
mataug 13y ago
Google's API documentation are generally abysmal. I have learnt not to spend too much time on the docs but rather look at the samples and source code. But there are times like when beta testing the APIs when there are no samples / source code and you mostly sitting ducks unless someone from google helps you out.
itsbits 13y ago
Oh if its for commercial purpose please stop developing Apps for Google. Usage will increase for a certain period of time, and then it drops constantly...
Luit 13y ago
Perhaps slightly off-topic: The name, GmailSharedTasks, doesn't look like one that Google's legal department would agree with. Your brand/product name incorporates a Google trademark. It might have been better to call it "SharedTasks for Google Tasks™" or "SharedTasks for Gmail™". See "I'm a developer and used Google's developer products/tools to create a new product. Can I use the Google name?" on http://www.google.com/permissions/faq.html http://www.google.com/permissions/faq.html
- anuaitt 13y ago
  Thanks Luit for the information, I have fixed it.
jpalomaki 13y ago
I have a feeling that Google is not very eager on having 3rd party applications running on their "free" (ad supported) platform. One reason could be that while these are useful for customers, they are not really bringing in any money for Google. Obviously good 3rd party apps would certainly help people to stick with Google services but they seem to be doing that anyways. One drawback in having people build their apps on top of you platform is that then you are stuck with the way things are. If you have popular apps depending on the current task system, you can't just take it away or move it to Google+ (or you can, but then you get lots of whining).
hrush 13y ago
Yes.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
deleted 13y ago
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Klarifier 13y ago
Anuaitt: 1.) You are clearly young and do not know: if there is something on the internet you do not like, go make it yourself. What obligation does Google have to do something for you? None! They are providing mostly free services, but if you don't like it (or the support), go make your own and quit bothering people (and Google). 2.) You have no relation to the GMail Web Application, yet you specify: "Founder GmailSharedTasks" Remove the Gmail from your description and build out your solution without trying to get a free ride. 3.) Your Google Groups post can be summed up: "Cry! I'm not getting any attention for my pet project!" Instead of crying, create your own solution that does not leave you at the mercy of a company or individual who sees you only as "1 of billions". Get over yourself. 4.) You know how to code, you know how to integrate with FREE APIs, now learn what it takes to run a business.
- anuaitt 13y ago
  Klarifier: 1) Why make it again if there is a platform already existing ? why not bother them : please check this link http://productforums.google.com/forum/#!topic/calendar/vdFSJiVlhMQ http://productforums.google.com/forum/#!topic/calendar/vdFSJ... 2) Yes, I know it is my fault 3) I would rather chose not to comment on this. 4) Why create my own API ? If someone as good as Google has already build it ? I know how to code and have built this app within 3 months. and yes I am a young developer and I know what business is. I know about code re-usability and providing a great user experience. Regarding building of my own API, I could have done that but I always wanted to make Gmail Tasks better, because I have been using it from past two-years. Learn to praise the people instead of finding negative aspects.
  - Klarifier 13y ago
    You are the whiner posting on this board. You need to get a clue and stop blaming people for things that are entirely in your control. Make your own e-mail system, then add-on to that.
ilaksh 13y ago
There is no reason for a platform to be controlled by a single company. If we need a common platform like gmail then it should be open source. I think we really need to push for open source shared platforms and make sure they aren't controlled by a single company. I think that means that engineering leadership in separate companies have to work together. The easiest place to do that under the radar is probably my github. One missing piece if the puzzle that is really going to make this idea if a shared platform across companies is moving to encrypted data oriented networking instead of server based networking. Not only does that model make vastly more sense in terms of the real topology of internet use now with data being propagated to leaf nodes, but there are also very strong reasons to move to distributed encrypted computing for privacy and economic reasons. A server based internet means server based web apps which is going to continue to result in due facto platforms created by individual companies.
zszugyi 13y ago
Comment of the day: "If you cannot increase his quota, at least give him a job...". Right, because hiring someone is probably much easier than changing a number in some database.
aliafshar 13y ago
That's poor, I'm sorry. The quota request was denied, but we (Google) failed to communicate the decision properly / at all. Sorry about that.
nathanb 13y ago
This is just another example of Google not caring a single solitary iota about developers who volunteer their time to improve their products and bring value to their platform and ecosystem. Digital sharecroppers, etc. It's a tragedy. He doesn't want to spend the time to build his own platform, and Google won't enable him to develop effectively for theirs. Google are tarnishing their brand, eroding their user base, and compromising their platform, all in the name of what? Avoiding the inefficiency of dedicated support for a global brand?
cupcake-unicorn 13y ago
Can someone take the time to explain to me what this means for someone who has an interest in developing Android apps that may make use of Google APIs? I don't know how quotas work and why it sounds like you could request an increase when you hit a limit, wouldn't they want you to move to a paid tier? Does this mean that as soon as your app becomes popular, you are doomed to fail? I've looked briefly at a few Google APIs and they seem strange. So there's no longer a straight search API, you have to put some params on a "custom search API" that only has something like 100 searches per day? But on the other hand, hit the Google Local Business API and you can make 10k requests...and then there are APIs that were shut down all together, like translation. This is really weird to me. Is it supposed to make any sense?
- givehimagun 13y ago
  I'd love to understand this too. Some services have prices over the courtesy limit (Translation) while others just have a max. What happens for like the Books API when you get above 10k/req/day? See https://code.google.com/apis/console https://code.google.com/apis/console
sbose78 13y ago
https://code.google.com/p/google-apps-script-issues/issues/detail?id=546 https://code.google.com/p/google-apps-script-issues/issues/d... This issue almost took more than a year to get fixed - I had to drop a project midway and start with other technologies from the scratch to build the same thing. The developer experience could have been better.

437 points by anuaitt 13y ago

ew 13y ago

We also receive very little love from Google. They are notorious for not helping developers, which is tragic.

anuaitt 13y ago
yes it is sad, I have worked days and nights for this and I am not being able to reach more users because of the quota on the apps.
- TwoBit 13y ago
  What is the current quota? Where is it documented?
  - afhof 13y ago
    5000 queries a day https://developers.google.com/google-apps/tasks/pricing https://developers.google.com/google-apps/tasks/pricing
  - anuaitt 13y ago
    Current quota is 1m requests/day and that is enough to handle just 2000 users/day, because I sync gmail tasks every minute.
    - bryanh 13y ago
      I know it sucks, but in the meantime have you considered slowing those sync tasks down if the user's "last activity" timestamp is older than a few minutes? You might even be able to make it sync faster for active users with the extra overhead afforded there. Logins, refreshes, clicks, new things synced, etc... can all update the last activity timestamp.
    - fharper1961 13y ago
      Is it possible to pay Google and receive a higher quota?
      - anuaitt 13y ago
        There is a communication gap between them and the developers, the problem is there is no real person to talk and sort things out.
        eitally 13y ago
        Email me. I know someone who might be able to help you.
        anuaitt 13y ago
        Hello @eitally, I am not able to get your email from Hacker News, please send a test email to me at anurag.ait@gmail.com. Thanks for helping out
        lightbritefight 13y ago
        The sad fact that you, a random HN commentor, likely has a better means to contact Google than their official Dev channels, perfectly illustrates the OP's point. Kudos for assisting, its just frustrating to realize its needed.
        thejbf 13y ago
        I'm a DevRel person working for Google's Apps APIs, please contact me.
        anuaitt 13y ago
        Hello @thejbf, I am not able to get your email from Hacker News, please send a test email to me at anurag.ait@gmail.com. Thanks for helping out
        cmkrnl 13y ago
- iuguy 13y ago
  I notice you're syncing tasks every minute. Perhaps a short-term workaround is to sync every 2 or every 5 minutes while you wait for the quota to increase?
  - anuaitt 13y ago
    That can be done but it will affect user experience right ? Better will be if I stop further registrations for the app.
    - hrjet 13y ago
      An alternative: For non-premium users sync every 5 minutes. For premium users sync every minute. Use Indian payment gateways if possible, though Paypal works fine too.
      - rattray 13y ago
        This is exactly what you should do. Your users will understand -- that's why so many have supported you on the googlegroup. Charge $3/mo and you won't hear any complaints (and if you do, you can point to your googlegroup). This is by far your easiest and clearest path to monetization, at least that I can see. And it seems you're long overdue for monetization.
      - anuaitt 13y ago
        Thanks hrjet, that is a great idea. But again I will have to struggle about the payment gateways. Thanks to HN guys for helping me out.
    - cpeterso 13y ago
      Can you adjust the sync rate depending on the time of day where your users live? There are probably certain times of the day when people update their tasks less frequently.
- Schweigi 13y ago
  I'm not sure if it works with the Google API's but usually e.g. with the GitHub API you can send the ETag in your GET request header and if nothing changed (304) it does not count to the quota. It wouldn't solve all the problems but could at least help to stay inside the quota.
  - anuaitt 13y ago
    I am already doing that, because of that only I am able to survive 2000 users. I want to expand and publicize my app and give users an excellent experience.
utopkara 13y ago
Google does give a lot of love to developers. AFAIK, they have dedicated developer teams for developer relations; just look at the quality of their API documentations and support. This one looks like a operations issue. Perhaps they do not have a corresponding relations team focused on operations support.
- masklinn 13y ago
  > Google does give a lot of love to developers. That simply isn't true. They have support for some very specific areas which they consider of specific importance (e.g. Android), for the rest you're left to rot. > Perhaps they do not have a corresponding relations team focused on operations support. This has nothing to do with ops, it's a developer needing a raise in his apps requests quota.
  - robryan 13y ago
    The core areas can have the opposite problem almost. The Adwords API has moved pretty quickly but they are also quick to remove things. Most stuff built in early 2012 would have had to be updated for changed/ removed features by now.
    - utopkara 13y ago
      I admit I haven't really traveled much on the less beaten paths. From the quality of what I have seen, I thought they must have policies for the minimum acceptable quality of all the public facing services to developers. On the other hand, I am happy that even the big G cannot afford to cover all fronts. It means, there is still room for new players to grow and do well in those areas.
- yareally 13y ago
  I know they have one group dedicated to the Android Source and they constantly answer questions related to development on their Google Group and elsewhere (like twitter). AOSP related stuff mostly comes off as good will towards the community as it's mostly those of us modding the source for ourselves and others in the community that are asking the questions.
markshepard 13y ago
I agree about the quality of documentation. If it wasnt for Stackoverflow it would have taken far more effort to develop a iOS quality app for android and this is for a product that they actually push!

erikb 13y ago

This is so tragic but basically verifies my own experiences with Google. If you are not a paying customer, they don't listen to you. Even if you do something that is more to their advantage then to yours. Maybe some paying customers who use gmailsharedtasks could direct their Google support to the thread.

anuaitt 13y ago
If you see the thread there are "27 posts by 24 authors", many users are supporting my app and are sending thank you email. I have been even trying to reach Google employees personally but having no luck :(
eksith 13y ago
It's been mentioned before that, considering the volume Google serves in all their services, it's unrealistic to expect any sort of customer service beyond the FAQ and bot variety, but I'm sure there are those who are willing to pay for an actual response. But, as one of my clients would attest, even if you're a paying customer, you may still be left hanging in the wind. I hope they don't start spreading the YouTube feedback treatment to all their services.
- rmah 13y ago
  Google is on track to see a $14 bil pre-tax profit for 2013. If they spent 15% of that ($2.1 bil) on support, with say a mix of 2/3 low pay ($100k/yr cost) and 1/3 high pay ($150k/yr cost) people... they could hire 18,000 additional support staff and still show a great profit. That works out to 30 mil support hours assuming 1680 hrs/yr (35 hrs * 48 weeks) actually spent on support. They could probably hire twice that many people by hiring some people in less expensive areas. To sum up, Google puts making a more money ahead of better support. It's their right to do so, but it not "unrealistic" for them to provide much better support.
  - RogerL 13y ago
    Your numbers don't quite work - Google has to pay taxes, benefits, office space, training, perks, equipment, recruitment costs, and so on. And then, have you tried to hire 18,000 people? Finally, Google's reported head count is around 40K - you are suggesting adding about 50% just for support. That's a tough sell to your investors. Where would all these people go. Mountain View is basically Google these days - the office I am sitting in will be razed for a Google parking lot (goodbye beautiful trees :( ). You have to factor in how many new buildings, how many new buses and bus drivers, city taxes, chefs, HR personnel - it goes on and on. The phrase "google scale" doesn't just apply to their apps. I'm not disputing that they could improve their support, just the price tag and scale that you have placed on it.

foobarbazqux 13y ago

If you work on something for 3-4 months, that's $30-40K at valley rates. To do this for free with the intention to enhance the product offering of a megacorp basically sends the message that you don't value your time. Of course said megacorp is not going to give you the time of day. They start to pay attention when the dollar value of your account is large enough. Start charging for your app. Then you can say, "I want to make us both some more money, could you please help me?"

anuaitt 13y ago
It is difficult to charge money from India as Individuals, paypal does not accept money for India nowadays and it is near to impossible to attach a international payment gateway. I thought of donation as well but again paypal issue.
- VMG 13y ago
  You should check out Bitcoin as a payment option, it was pretty much designed for your use case: http://www.weusecoins.com/en/ http://www.weusecoins.com/en/ BitPay as a payment processor in particular: https://bitpay.com/ https://bitpay.com/
  - anuaitt 13y ago
    Thanks for the information VMG.
    - winter_blue 13y ago
      You should beware that converting bitcoins into INR is going to prove difficult in India. I have not yet heard of a single bitcoin exchange for Indian (INR) users. Correct me if I am wrong.
      - VMG 13y ago
        that's what BitPay.com is for - pays out in local currency

AliAdams 13y ago

I think Google has such a strong consumer following now that it isn't as interested in keeping the developers happy. We were early adopters so got a good amount of attention at the start but that certainly seems to have waned with Google's popularity.

hvidgaard 13y ago
It just doesn't make sense. Without developers all the innovation happens elsewhere, and at some point the consumers will switch. Google cannot keep up with innovation internally, and they're not attracting new talent with such a hostile developer stance.
- ankitml 13y ago
  Seriously? Making a driverless car isnt innovation?

mikeknoop 13y ago

I put in an API quota bump for Google Calendar a few months back and it was silently accepted after 2-3 days. Based on my experience, each team individually deals with quotas for their API. Google Tasks is not really a dedicated product so it probably has little to no permanent team behind it. This is probably the cause for the slow response time on quota requests.

robryan 13y ago
Yeah, we requested an API limit increase for Adwords. When we got an email about some specifics and how we stayed within their terms I figured it might just get rejected. Thankfully it was a real person who actually knew what they were talking about and were able to sort it out over a chain of emails. So yeah, I guess it is team by team.

nikcub 13y ago

Google are terrible at developer support, but I think it is fair to say that they didn't foresee anybody using the Tasks API in this way, where you are proxying for all your users. Keep persisting, but as a temporary measure I would prompt your users to provide you with their own API key. Lots of apps do this (such as CMS plugins). You can give them a link to the API portal and explain in 2-3 points how to generate a key and paste it back in your app. Also, your app is in debug mode, so errors are showing a complete stack trace. Your database is also down right now.

anuaitt 13y ago
It is up again. Thanks for letting me know, It was due to the High load.
karangoeluw 13y ago
> Google are terrible at support. FTFY
- tedsanders 13y ago
  Could you offer arguments or anecdotes about why you think Google is terrible at support? Snarky, four-character comments like yours do not add much value to the discussion.
  - MAGZine 13y ago
    Ever try to contact a human at google regarding their services/products? Or even your account? It's quite difficult to find an email form that will lead to a human let lone a phone number.
    - genericone 13y ago
      I think that tedsander would have wanted that your explanation follow the snarky four character comment, so that there would at least be something of merit to respond to. Comments like "this" "lol" "ftfy" "rtfa" "ruh roh" are the kinds of responses that generally annoy users of HN looking for intelligible discourse.

sdfjkl 13y ago

If you build something on someone else's API, you can get fucked in a million ways. They might shut down the API (Google Reader), take away the functionality you relied on (Google Calendar), limit it (Twitter) or deprecate the version you're using, forcing you to do development work to keep working at the worst possible time for you (IOS). They might also decide that your product is very good and build a version of it themselves, using functions not available to you via the public API so that you cannot compete with it (Apple). So before building something that relies on things entirely outside of your control, consider a few things and the effort it would take for each: - Can you run it on something else (S3 is a good example - there are several API-compatible competitors) - Can you replace the service you're relying on with one of your own (e.g. building your own Google Reader sync API) Then decide if it isn't worth building the whole thing yourself. Heck, you might even want to put an API on it yourself. Feel the power? :) Oh, and never, ever rely on someone else doing authentication for you. It's just too easy to get your entire userbase taken away from you.

nephics 13y ago
Authentication via third parties are not an inherently Bad Thing. Mozilla Persona shows how third party authentication can be done, without risk of user base hijacking,
- nly 13y ago
  While it's true that Mozilla can't maintain a list of what services their users are using, there are still security implications to using Persona. Mozilla (or anyone who with their private key) can still enable access any user account on any Persona enabled site. Persona is perfect for blogs, but using it for a service people may be paying for, or handles any private user information (postal address, private messages or posts on a forum etc) is a bad idea.
JohnLBevan 13y ago
Build your solution suitably decoupled, such that if you lose access to the API you can easily switch to another provided. Ideally build solutions across two competitors services such that if you get any surprises it's clear that your solution works / users are able to migrate to the alternate provider. For authentication I'd argue in some ways it's better to provide the option of third-party. This means users don't have to submit credentials to you. Given most people (against advice to the contrary) use the same username and password for most sites signing up to an unknown company's service feels riskier as they're then giving that company their credentials, which someone may then try on other sites - having a token which allows them to sign in with their Google/FB/Twitter/etc account saves this worry / only requires the user to hit an "authorise" button.

alex_doom 13y ago

Doesn't Google have a way of paying for more usage of the API? I know the Maps Geolocation API does. Maybe I'm naive, but if you're using a free service of a mega-corp I would expect the customer service to be nil. Priority goes to the paying customers.

anuaitt 13y ago
There is a communication gap between them and the developers, the problem is there is no real person to talk and sort things out.

EugeneOZ 13y ago

I don't understand why all these users who love so much that app can't just pay $3-$5 monthly to help this app survive?

Yeroc 13y ago
It's not clear how a willingness for the end-users to pay $3-5 monthly would help the situation given that he can't use $$ to increase his quota-controlled access to the api.

davidjgraph 13y ago

We developed a product specifically for Google Drive using their JavaScript client. We were hoping to make it commercial but had to abandon those plans due to 3 bugs that have been present since around the beginning of 2013. Also, there's no open bug tracker. The developer relations people are very friendly, but when I ask where to report bugs I'm told "just tell me". So every 2 months I've reported the same 3 bugs in person and they get swallowed up and that's the last I hear about it until my next report. The silly thing is that we were one of the showcased applications in Google I/O this year, for the Drive section. A number of Googlers came past and said "Wow, cool. Please, please commercialise this". The truth is, we can't and it's because of the bugs in Google's code (well, partly, the other problem is Drive has just been too unstable over the past 4 months, until there's 99.9% uptime for a year, we can't consider it). Don't get me wrong, I love what Google are doing with their API stuff and the dev relations really go out of their way to help (specifically the Drive SDK team). But, as it stands, this isn't a platform I'm confident in building a critical business product on, currently. EDIT : That last sentence is wrong. I'm confident to build a critical business product on it, I think it'll get there, I'm just not confident to charge money and have to support it, at this point in time.

masklinn 13y ago
> until there's 99.9% uptime for a year And three nines is still 45mn of downtime per month.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- gcb0 13y ago
  wha't s a "mn"? mili-newton?
  - Anm 13y ago
    He meant minutes. 45min.
    - 13y ago

kishor_gurtu 13y ago

You're probably better off creating a product for a more professionally managed marketplace - like the Office365 marketplace - http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/fp179924.aspx http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/fp179924.aspx. This lets you develop apps on Exchange (similar to your tasks app). See http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/jj220499(EXCHG.80).aspx http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/jj220499(EXCHG.80).a... and http://code.msdn.microsoft.com/office/Exchange-2013-Create-tasks-39b938ea http://code.msdn.microsoft.com/office/Exchange-2013-Create-t... Office365 customers (all of them are paying customers) who find it useful can install the app on their accounts. You don't have to stuggle with PayPal issues as Microsoft will pay you through the marketplace account after charging the customers. Office365 support is excellent as well (they even do phone support). No need to chase anyone on Google+. (I'm not shilling for Microsoft. I have no financial interests here).

hahainternet 13y ago
> (I'm not shilling for Microsoft. I have no financial interests here). Paid or unpaid, this post is pretty much shilling.
- kishor_gurtu 13y ago
  Fine. If that's what you want to call it. I just want to point out alternatives. Take it or leave it.
  - hahainternet 13y ago
    You weren't just pointing out alternatives but actively dissuading someone. That's where I think it crosses the line.
    - arkades 13y ago
      The title of the post is "Should I stop developing for google?" If you answer it, you're actively dissuading someone. He answered and posed an alternative.

oakaz 13y ago

Google is terrible at support in general. I've been reporting a blogspot website stealing my documents and impersonating me for making money by ads for over two years. I sent my passport two times, and some friends also sent a report for me. Result? not even a verification e-mail. They simply host website that attacks my intellectual property, my name and give me no piece of shit.

hahainternet 13y ago
Identity fraud is a criminal matter. Talk to the police. If they have stolen copyrighted material, file a DMCA.
- oakaz 13y ago
  It's a technical doc without copyrights, that I wrote 8 years ago...
  - hahainternet 13y ago
    Then call the police if they are committing identity fraud.
  - prewett 13y ago
    IANAL, but I did take an IP law course. If I recall correctly, you have copyright from the moment that you create the work. You can have it officially registered at a later date, however, you might be limited in collecting damages to infractions after the registration date. I'm not sure what happens if they registered the copyright. Presumably you could sue them if you can demonstrate that you were the true creator. I don't understand the part about sending a passport. I do think that filing a DMCA notice is certainly the easiest way. Google has to listen to that.
    - oakaz 13y ago
      I sent a copy of my passport to Google since they want me to prove I report impersonation. I really hate dealing with legal cases and also since I'm a Turkish guy living in US, and the website impersonating me is also Turkish, I don't wanna spend my time on this shitty case. I just believe this; Google should start being friend with people.

OGC 13y ago

I find it very hard to believe that a bunch of random people find the time to comment (and all praise that app) on a Google Groups thread. Calling bullshit.

anuaitt 13y ago
They are not random people, they are the users of gmailsharedtasks. They have used it and love it. They have commented due to my request so that google come to know that the app works great and is loved and needs attention.

pyalot2 13y ago

You should stop developing apps for Google

znowi 13y ago
Or any other PRISM company. Unless you want to aid the NSA.
- mpyne 13y ago
  That effectively means "any other US/UK/AUS/NZ/CAN" company, not just PRISM-interfacing ones.
- xauronx 13y ago
  yawn
- general_failure 13y ago
  There I said it 'snowden'.

anuaitt 13y ago

If anyone in Google is reading this please don't mistake me, I know Google is a innovative company and through this post I don't want to give any negative impression about Google. I want Gmail Tasks to be world recognized and people to use it more frequently. I see that there are very less standalone apps developed for Tasks, this is a small effort by me to make Google Tasks better and more usable. If you find value in what I am doing and see it innovative enough, please help. Thanks for giving me an opportunity to build an app on google.

tomorgan 13y ago
I think your HN title would suggest otherwise. I also think there are development enhancements you could make to your application to work around these problems. Maybe you won't get any response from Google until you have 2M users? What are you going to do about it? There have been some excellent suggestions in the comments for working around this (longer waits before retries, premium level retries etc). Do these first, increase user base, then contact Google when it's less easy for them to ignore you.
kvcrawford 13y ago
You should require users to generate their own API keys. Problem solved! http://i.qkme.me/3r6sxj.jpg http://i.qkme.me/3r6sxj.jpg

iwantatophat 13y ago

Developed an app for Android and placed it on Android market. It had 5000 users after a week and then it got removed without notice, no email, no reason why, no nothing. First and last time I do anything with Google, malicious company not only for that reason but for many other.

adam12 13y ago
What was the app?
- iwantatophat 13y ago
  A music player.
NicoJuicy 13y ago
Karma of zero, with an account created 11 hours ago. You, you really aren't persuasive for anyone.
- iwantatophat 13y ago
  Yes, you saw through me. I created this account 11 hours ago to make a fake response to a news article submitted 4 hours ago. I do not see how my credability increases if its 1 or 1000 days, you are still need to have the trust of an anonymous user which you pick to have or not. Usually you pick not to have to if it disagrees with your already established oppinion. I usually lurk, I probably make an average of 5 comments per month. When I do make a comment, not only on HN I usually make a new account.
  - NicoJuicy 13y ago
    Any prove of your Android app then? Google always sound to me as the "least" evil. No evil (their slogan) is rubbish, definatly considering the business stakes that are in Android / Google TV / Chrome OS / Youtube ( ebooks, music, movies, series, ...). The entertainment business will always try to get some influence in the search engine as a "good-will" of Google before negotiating any contracts. To bad that's reality though.

vog 13y ago

The problems with Google start at the very basics of communication, with their policy of providing just one email adress (and nothing else) where you may or may not get an answer, effectively handling incoming requests more like petitions than providing real communication. This is in constrast to many other big companies where you get at least some reply (although it's often canned and not very helpful, but still more than a generic auto reply), or where you can call a more or less expensive hotline, so you can at least pay them for hearing your voice. This behaviour of Google is so restrictive that it even violates consumer protection laws in some countries. For example, here in Germany they got into trouble because they violated the so-called "Impressumspflicht". This law requests that they have to provide (among others) at least one postal address and one telephone number on their website, and that they can actually be contacted by those, in 60 minutes or less. http://translate.google.de/translate?hl=de&sl=de&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.googlewatchblog.de%2F2013%2F04%2Fgoogle-deutschland-abmahnung-verletzung%2F http://translate.google.de/translate?hl=de&sl=de&tl=en&u=htt... http://translate.google.de/translate?hl=de&sl=de&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.recht-freundlich.de%2Fgoogle-durch-verbraucherzentrale-abgemahnt-impressumspflicht-moeglicherweise-verletzt http://translate.google.de/translate?hl=de&sl=de&tl=en&u=htt...

Klarifier 13y ago
Google can do what they want. If you want to do better, than do it. Complaining won't help you.
- moocowduckquack 13y ago
  Please never run a restaurant.
  - general_failure 13y ago
    He isn't. And neither is Google.
- codingblues 13y ago
  it sounds like you have never led a team before

alan_cx 13y ago

If you are genuinely asking that question I suspect you already have the answer.

mataug 13y ago

Google's API documentation are generally abysmal. I have learnt not to spend too much time on the docs but rather look at the samples and source code. But there are times like when beta testing the APIs when there are no samples / source code and you mostly sitting ducks unless someone from google helps you out.

itsbits 13y ago

Oh if its for commercial purpose please stop developing Apps for Google. Usage will increase for a certain period of time, and then it drops constantly...

Luit 13y ago

Perhaps slightly off-topic: The name, GmailSharedTasks, doesn't look like one that Google's legal department would agree with. Your brand/product name incorporates a Google trademark. It might have been better to call it "SharedTasks for Google Tasks™" or "SharedTasks for Gmail™". See "I'm a developer and used Google's developer products/tools to create a new product. Can I use the Google name?" on http://www.google.com/permissions/faq.html http://www.google.com/permissions/faq.html

anuaitt 13y ago
Thanks Luit for the information, I have fixed it.

jpalomaki 13y ago

I have a feeling that Google is not very eager on having 3rd party applications running on their "free" (ad supported) platform. One reason could be that while these are useful for customers, they are not really bringing in any money for Google. Obviously good 3rd party apps would certainly help people to stick with Google services but they seem to be doing that anyways. One drawback in having people build their apps on top of you platform is that then you are stuck with the way things are. If you have popular apps depending on the current task system, you can't just take it away or move it to Google+ (or you can, but then you get lots of whining).

hrush 13y ago

Yes.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

Klarifier 13y ago

Anuaitt: 1.) You are clearly young and do not know: if there is something on the internet you do not like, go make it yourself. What obligation does Google have to do something for you? None! They are providing mostly free services, but if you don't like it (or the support), go make your own and quit bothering people (and Google). 2.) You have no relation to the GMail Web Application, yet you specify: "Founder GmailSharedTasks" Remove the Gmail from your description and build out your solution without trying to get a free ride. 3.) Your Google Groups post can be summed up: "Cry! I'm not getting any attention for my pet project!" Instead of crying, create your own solution that does not leave you at the mercy of a company or individual who sees you only as "1 of billions". Get over yourself. 4.) You know how to code, you know how to integrate with FREE APIs, now learn what it takes to run a business.

anuaitt 13y ago
Klarifier: 1) Why make it again if there is a platform already existing ? why not bother them : please check this link http://productforums.google.com/forum/#!topic/calendar/vdFSJiVlhMQ http://productforums.google.com/forum/#!topic/calendar/vdFSJ... 2) Yes, I know it is my fault 3) I would rather chose not to comment on this. 4) Why create my own API ? If someone as good as Google has already build it ? I know how to code and have built this app within 3 months. and yes I am a young developer and I know what business is. I know about code re-usability and providing a great user experience. Regarding building of my own API, I could have done that but I always wanted to make Gmail Tasks better, because I have been using it from past two-years. Learn to praise the people instead of finding negative aspects.
- Klarifier 13y ago
  You are the whiner posting on this board. You need to get a clue and stop blaming people for things that are entirely in your control. Make your own e-mail system, then add-on to that.

ilaksh 13y ago

There is no reason for a platform to be controlled by a single company. If we need a common platform like gmail then it should be open source. I think we really need to push for open source shared platforms and make sure they aren't controlled by a single company. I think that means that engineering leadership in separate companies have to work together. The easiest place to do that under the radar is probably my github. One missing piece if the puzzle that is really going to make this idea if a shared platform across companies is moving to encrypted data oriented networking instead of server based networking. Not only does that model make vastly more sense in terms of the real topology of internet use now with data being propagated to leaf nodes, but there are also very strong reasons to move to distributed encrypted computing for privacy and economic reasons. A server based internet means server based web apps which is going to continue to result in due facto platforms created by individual companies.

zszugyi 13y ago

Comment of the day: "If you cannot increase his quota, at least give him a job...". Right, because hiring someone is probably much easier than changing a number in some database.

aliafshar 13y ago

That's poor, I'm sorry. The quota request was denied, but we (Google) failed to communicate the decision properly / at all. Sorry about that.

nathanb 13y ago

This is just another example of Google not caring a single solitary iota about developers who volunteer their time to improve their products and bring value to their platform and ecosystem. Digital sharecroppers, etc. It's a tragedy. He doesn't want to spend the time to build his own platform, and Google won't enable him to develop effectively for theirs. Google are tarnishing their brand, eroding their user base, and compromising their platform, all in the name of what? Avoiding the inefficiency of dedicated support for a global brand?

cupcake-unicorn 13y ago

Can someone take the time to explain to me what this means for someone who has an interest in developing Android apps that may make use of Google APIs? I don't know how quotas work and why it sounds like you could request an increase when you hit a limit, wouldn't they want you to move to a paid tier? Does this mean that as soon as your app becomes popular, you are doomed to fail? I've looked briefly at a few Google APIs and they seem strange. So there's no longer a straight search API, you have to put some params on a "custom search API" that only has something like 100 searches per day? But on the other hand, hit the Google Local Business API and you can make 10k requests...and then there are APIs that were shut down all together, like translation. This is really weird to me. Is it supposed to make any sense?

givehimagun 13y ago
I'd love to understand this too. Some services have prices over the courtesy limit (Translation) while others just have a max. What happens for like the Books API when you get above 10k/req/day? See https://code.google.com/apis/console https://code.google.com/apis/console

sbose78 13y ago

https://code.google.com/p/google-apps-script-issues/issues/detail?id=546 https://code.google.com/p/google-apps-script-issues/issues/d... This issue almost took more than a year to get fixed - I had to drop a project midway and start with other technologies from the scratch to build the same thing. The developer experience could have been better.