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As an American living in Europe for the last year, I have drawn the exact opposite conclusion about tipping culture. Many of the restaurants I have been to (in

As an American living in Europe for the last year, I have drawn the exact opposite conclusion about tipping culture. Many of the restaurants I have been to (in France, Spain, Italy, Germany, Holland, Belgium) have, by American standards, horrible service. The waitstaff is inattentive or rude. You have to call waiters over constantly to give them your order, ask for another drink, or get the bill. I think that part of this stems from different cultural opinions on service (i.e. it's rude to bring the check preemptively), but some of it is just lack of incentive, I think. What incentive does a waitress have to give you good service if she's making a standard wage and no tips? Especially if the waitress has increased job protection in certain countries (it's harder for an employer to fire people in France than in the US).

bberrry 13y ago
To be fair, you get terrible service in all aspects of French, Italian and Spanish society. I can't speak for the others though.
- kh_hk 13y ago
  It's not terrible service, it's just a welcome hug to foreigners. If you like the place or the food, give a small tip, come back, and you will be befriended by a smile.
yulaow 13y ago
That's maybe a culture difference. Here in italy we prefer to not have the waiters constant near to you but to call them only when you need them. They are "allowed" to come near only when they see all the people in a table have finisched their dishs. Also, it's rude if the waiters give_you/ask_you_if_you_want the bill before you ask for that.
stevoski 13y ago
I'm quite certain this is a cultural difference. What you find to be rude or inattentive is considered polite in some European countries. For a waiter to be appearing at the table often, unsummoned, is rude in Germany, for example. If you want the waiter, so etiquette says, you'll summon him/her.
- tomsaffell 13y ago
  Seconded. As a Brit living in the US I often find US waitstaff's behavior intrusive. In particular, the 'is everything OK?' asked five minutes after the main course is served always bemuses me, especially when it interrupts someone talking. It's cultural for sure.
  - bluedino 13y ago
    The reason they come back right after delivering the food is so they can make sure your meal is as you ordered. Is something cold or taste especially bad? Was the wrong sauce or filling used by the cook?
    - fragmede 13y ago
      Everyone understands that as the reason for it, but it doesn't make it less rude or overbearing. If I have a problem with the food, I'll get a waiters attention - perhaps with a snap of my fingers - which is expected and not at all rude and let the waiter know. Snapping my fingers at the waiter isn't something I'd ever do in the US though.
      - rmc 13y ago
        Finger snapping would be viewed as rude in Ireland & UK as well.
    - MaysonL 13y ago
      In other words, they trust neither their own ability to take the order correctly, nor the kitchen staff's ablility to fulfill.
      - proofofconcept 13y ago
        More like they are accounting for any source of human error which is impossible to completely eliminate even with a top-quality staff.
      - 13y ago
TheAnimus 13y ago
>As an American living in Europe for the last year, I have drawn the exact opposite conclusion about tipping culture. As a Brit when in America I find it awful how the waitress will pretend to be friendly. If we're just a group of guys or whatever I don't want you to be pretended to be interested in who we are, what we do. Putting a hand on my back isn't going to make me prefer the food I'm here for. If I wanted someone to pretend to be my friend, I'd be in a titty bar. I think there is a good middle ground, in the UK tips are expected to be about 12.5% max. All staff share them, and front of house aren't so transparent in trying to get a bigger tip from you. People appear to take pride in what they do, rather than just being mercenary.
- janjongboom 13y ago
  Foreigners have the saying here in the Netherlands: "You can complain about the fake friendliness of waiters in the USA, but in the Netherlands you know they genuinely f*n hate you."
  - SiVal 13y ago
    As an American working in the UK, I was surprised to discover how often Brits and other Europeans assumed that genuine friendliness was "fake friendliness". Their own attitudes toward others were assumed to be universal, so any sign of friendliness that they wouldn't have expected in their own society was assumed to be fake. Yes, sometimes it is fake, but very often it's a case of being unable to imagine a culture where genuine friendliness toward strangers is a lot more common than what they themselves tend to feel toward strangers.
- arbitrage 13y ago
  > Putting a hand on my back isn't going to make me prefer the food I'm here for. Perhaps you're immune to the effect, since you know about it. But in aggregate, it can change the disposition of customers (measured using the metric of increased tips). They wouldn't do it if it didn't work.
- ValentineC 13y ago
  Is there a tipping culture in the UK? I always thought that the mandatory service charge in some restaurants (especially when one has a big party) made up for it. Now I feel slightly guilty.
Nursie 13y ago
Conversely I find staff in America over-attentive, prone to interrupting and getting in the way, dressed in plastic smiles and faking happiness just as hard as they can. To me, tips encourage wait staff to get in the way and try to make themselves part of the evening, which is not something I want in a meal out with friends.
- EpicEng 13y ago
  I was a waiter. Checking back every N minutes is not to get a bigger tip; it is almost always forced by management. Chili's, for example, requires that you check back within 3 minutes of serving the main course. Also, at my store, they required that you take the order down on one knee in order to seem more "casual". Bleh. I didn't do it.
  - Nursie 13y ago
    Huh. Fair enough I have noticed that this happens at Nandos over here in the UK too, it seems to be part of their formula. That is typically the last interaction you have with the staff though, as their model is that you pay when you order.
  - scotch_drinker 13y ago
    Yup, this. Macaroni Grill had 17 steps of service that HAD to be hit at every table including checking back within a certain time to make sure everyone's pasta bolognese was to their liking. It's a management step to legislate to the lowest common denominator, both in waitstaff (ensures no one is in the back smoking while a patron has a raw steak) and customer (as in software, the user rarely understands they need more butter until 2 minutes after the food is delivered).
  - andrewflnr 13y ago
    Taking a knee is the opposite of casual.
    - sejje 13y ago
      Not in America. It's supposed to mitigate the natural inferiority imposed from looking up at someone.
dsego 13y ago
Here's an interesting experience from an american living in Croatia. A small excerpt: > The waiters and waitresses in Croatia keep it real. And by keeping it real I mean they maintain authenticity, and by that I mean they do things like finish their cigarette or magazine article before taking your order, approach your table with almost total indifference and sometimes do everything in their power NOT TO NOTICE YOU! For my American readers it may sound strange, but I prefer this kind of “service” to what we have in the US. As it is with lots of things in Croatia, once you go through the looking glass, there’s no going back. Croatian service: Keeping it real, really real http://zablogreb.likecroatia.hr/?p=10 http://zablogreb.likecroatia.hr/?p=10
alxp 13y ago
> What incentive does a waitress have to give you good service if she's making a standard wage and no tips? Does your boss pay you a few extra dollars if you were extra productive and cheerful today? No? Would that be kind of demeaning, actually? Do you do a good job because it it's what you want to do?
- gnosis 13y ago
  "Does your boss pay you a few extra dollars if you were extra productive and cheerful today? No? Would that be kind of demeaning, actually?" It may be demeaning to you, as you probably make far more money than a waiter. But waiters in the US typically get paid an atrociously low salary, and make most of their income from tips. "Do you do a good job because it it's what you want to do?" Few people consider waiting tables their dream job. They usually do it because they consider it a temporary job, not a career. Some may take pride in doing an exceptional job, but they're probably the exception rather than the rule.
  - dragonwriter 13y ago
    > It may be demeaning to you, as you probably make far more money than a waiter. But waiters in the US typically get paid an atrociously low salary, and make most of their income from tips. Waiters get paid an atrociously low salary because it is anticipated that their real pay will come from tips. This is part of the "tipping culture", not an external factor which justifies tipping culture.
    - gnosis 13y ago
      "Waiters get paid an atrociously low salary because it is anticipated that their real pay will come from tips." I think it's rather that employers aren't willing to pay more, and waiters usually can't afford to turn down work that pays them these salaries, and there usually isn't another alternative that pays any better. Regardless of the reasons for this state of affairs, the fact is that watiers in the US do get paid atrocious salaries and can't afford to look down their noses at "an extra few dollars" in tips. I'm sure plenty of waiters would trade in the tip system for a guaranteed higher salary, but it's usually not up to them to decide.
dragonwriter 13y ago
> What incentive does a waitress have to give you good service if she's making a standard wage and no tips? The same incentive every other worker that gets paid a hourly wage or monthly salary without tips has to do a their job properly.
- EpicEng 13y ago
  So, in other words, little to no incentive? The prospect of a bigger tip is certainly an incentive. I speak from experience. It's also the reason that many waiters (myself included at one time) will prioritize, say, a group of four adults ordering drinks over a grumpy family with two kids ordering salads and water.
  - dragonwriter 13y ago
    > So, in other words, little to no incentive? The depends on how well the employer monitors performance and holds employees accountable. Of course, employers who do bad at this in terms of customer service staff will find their business develops a reputation for poor customer service, and loses out to businesses that do a good job at this, all other things being equal.
- Gormo 13y ago
  Most people paid hourly wages or monthly salaries aren't doing jobs that are entirely composed of rendering direct personal service to a customer over an extended period of time. Tipping is indeed customary in every service trade that I'm aware of, because it conforms to the reality that the waiter/deliveryman/taxi driver/etc. actually is working, at least in part, directly for the customer.
fizz_and_buzz 13y ago
Haha, I kind agree, but I also lived in the US for a while. I talked to a coworker a while back though, and he came back from a conference in the US and was annoyed that waiters kept asking him if he wanted anything and when he said he didn't they brought him the bill right away. It's pretty common in Germany for example to just sit at the table and talk with your friends, but he felt like as soon as he stopped ordering anything they wanted him out.
aestra 13y ago
This is just a cultural difference. You expect American style service from a different culture with different values and manners. What's "rude" to you is acceptable and even polite there. You will have to learn to deal with this as normal. When I was living in a European country I was told about this in advance from the locals who gave me an orientation. What bothered me most was some of the other Americans I was with complaining about how "rude" all the locals were. They were the ones being rude by expecting the entire world be have the same concept of manners as them. What incentive does a cook have to give you a good meal if she's making a standard wage and no tips? What incentive does a dishwasher have to do a proper job washing your dishes if she's making a standard wage and no tips? What incentive does a fast food employee have to good service if she's making a standard wage and no tips? What incentive does a barista have to good service if she's making a standard wage and no tips? etc...
- gnosis 13y ago
  "What incentive does a cook have to give you a good meal if she's making a standard wage and no tips? What incentive does a dishwasher have to do a proper job washing your dishes if she's making a standard wage and no tips? What incentive does a fast food employee have to good service if she's making a standard wage and no tips? What incentive does a barista have to good service if she's making a standard wage and no tips?" From what I've heard, in the US it's standard practice to split the tip among the staff in a restaurant. The cook, host/hostess, even the other waiters get their share of a single waiter's tip. I'm not sure about the dishwasher. But it's pretty obvious what incentive the dishwasher has in keeping the dishes clean: if they're not, he/she will get fired.
  - RogerL 13y ago
    The article addresses this (splitting). It still doesn't end up equitable, even assuming the server hands over all the cash (ha!).
  - aestra 13y ago
    I have a data point of 2. I knew two waitresses. They both took home their tips at the end of the night, without sharing with anyone. One of them was required to only report 15% of her sales to the IRS for taxing, but always took home way way more than that, so she made tons of tax free income. Also the United States is a large place, there is different customs different places. It's pretty obvious what incentive the waitstaff has to provide good service, if they don't, they get fired. Tipping is arbitrary. I tip the person who pours my drink at the bar, but not the person who pour my drink at McDonald's. Oh, by the way, when I was younger and in high school/college I worked three public facing customer service jobs where I didn't earn any tips. I worked my ass off at each job for standard wages. I always provided the best customer service I could. My incentive was I wanted to do my job effectively and not get fired or reprimanded. It is incredibly naive to think that if waitstaff earned a fair wage without tips they would all suddenly stop doing their job. Especially since they already know they are going to get a tip anyways, it is pretty much required to give a tip, no matter how bad the service was!
ThomPete 13y ago
I will definitely take US service over European any day. It is one area where I believe that the europeans have a lot to learn, perhaps with the exception of Italy and London which I find pretty effective.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
euxneks 13y ago
>>> What incentive does a waitress have to give you good service if she's making a standard wage and no tips? I'd think pride in her work? That's pretty shitty if they can treat customers like crap.

bberrry 13y ago

To be fair, you get terrible service in all aspects of French, Italian and Spanish society. I can't speak for the others though.

kh_hk 13y ago
It's not terrible service, it's just a welcome hug to foreigners. If you like the place or the food, give a small tip, come back, and you will be befriended by a smile.

yulaow 13y ago

That's maybe a culture difference. Here in italy we prefer to not have the waiters constant near to you but to call them only when you need them. They are "allowed" to come near only when they see all the people in a table have finisched their dishs. Also, it's rude if the waiters give_you/ask_you_if_you_want the bill before you ask for that.

stevoski 13y ago

I'm quite certain this is a cultural difference. What you find to be rude or inattentive is considered polite in some European countries. For a waiter to be appearing at the table often, unsummoned, is rude in Germany, for example. If you want the waiter, so etiquette says, you'll summon him/her.

tomsaffell 13y ago
Seconded. As a Brit living in the US I often find US waitstaff's behavior intrusive. In particular, the 'is everything OK?' asked five minutes after the main course is served always bemuses me, especially when it interrupts someone talking. It's cultural for sure.
- bluedino 13y ago
  The reason they come back right after delivering the food is so they can make sure your meal is as you ordered. Is something cold or taste especially bad? Was the wrong sauce or filling used by the cook?
  - fragmede 13y ago
    Everyone understands that as the reason for it, but it doesn't make it less rude or overbearing. If I have a problem with the food, I'll get a waiters attention - perhaps with a snap of my fingers - which is expected and not at all rude and let the waiter know. Snapping my fingers at the waiter isn't something I'd ever do in the US though.
    - rmc 13y ago
      Finger snapping would be viewed as rude in Ireland & UK as well.
  - MaysonL 13y ago
    In other words, they trust neither their own ability to take the order correctly, nor the kitchen staff's ablility to fulfill.
    - proofofconcept 13y ago
      More like they are accounting for any source of human error which is impossible to completely eliminate even with a top-quality staff.
    - 13y ago

TheAnimus 13y ago

>As an American living in Europe for the last year, I have drawn the exact opposite conclusion about tipping culture. As a Brit when in America I find it awful how the waitress will pretend to be friendly. If we're just a group of guys or whatever I don't want you to be pretended to be interested in who we are, what we do. Putting a hand on my back isn't going to make me prefer the food I'm here for. If I wanted someone to pretend to be my friend, I'd be in a titty bar. I think there is a good middle ground, in the UK tips are expected to be about 12.5% max. All staff share them, and front of house aren't so transparent in trying to get a bigger tip from you. People appear to take pride in what they do, rather than just being mercenary.

janjongboom 13y ago
Foreigners have the saying here in the Netherlands: "You can complain about the fake friendliness of waiters in the USA, but in the Netherlands you know they genuinely f*n hate you."
- SiVal 13y ago
  As an American working in the UK, I was surprised to discover how often Brits and other Europeans assumed that genuine friendliness was "fake friendliness". Their own attitudes toward others were assumed to be universal, so any sign of friendliness that they wouldn't have expected in their own society was assumed to be fake. Yes, sometimes it is fake, but very often it's a case of being unable to imagine a culture where genuine friendliness toward strangers is a lot more common than what they themselves tend to feel toward strangers.
arbitrage 13y ago
> Putting a hand on my back isn't going to make me prefer the food I'm here for. Perhaps you're immune to the effect, since you know about it. But in aggregate, it can change the disposition of customers (measured using the metric of increased tips). They wouldn't do it if it didn't work.
ValentineC 13y ago
Is there a tipping culture in the UK? I always thought that the mandatory service charge in some restaurants (especially when one has a big party) made up for it. Now I feel slightly guilty.

Nursie 13y ago

Conversely I find staff in America over-attentive, prone to interrupting and getting in the way, dressed in plastic smiles and faking happiness just as hard as they can. To me, tips encourage wait staff to get in the way and try to make themselves part of the evening, which is not something I want in a meal out with friends.

EpicEng 13y ago
I was a waiter. Checking back every N minutes is not to get a bigger tip; it is almost always forced by management. Chili's, for example, requires that you check back within 3 minutes of serving the main course. Also, at my store, they required that you take the order down on one knee in order to seem more "casual". Bleh. I didn't do it.
- Nursie 13y ago
  Huh. Fair enough I have noticed that this happens at Nandos over here in the UK too, it seems to be part of their formula. That is typically the last interaction you have with the staff though, as their model is that you pay when you order.
- scotch_drinker 13y ago
  Yup, this. Macaroni Grill had 17 steps of service that HAD to be hit at every table including checking back within a certain time to make sure everyone's pasta bolognese was to their liking. It's a management step to legislate to the lowest common denominator, both in waitstaff (ensures no one is in the back smoking while a patron has a raw steak) and customer (as in software, the user rarely understands they need more butter until 2 minutes after the food is delivered).
- andrewflnr 13y ago
  Taking a knee is the opposite of casual.
  - sejje 13y ago
    Not in America. It's supposed to mitigate the natural inferiority imposed from looking up at someone.

dsego 13y ago

Here's an interesting experience from an american living in Croatia. A small excerpt: > The waiters and waitresses in Croatia keep it real. And by keeping it real I mean they maintain authenticity, and by that I mean they do things like finish their cigarette or magazine article before taking your order, approach your table with almost total indifference and sometimes do everything in their power NOT TO NOTICE YOU! For my American readers it may sound strange, but I prefer this kind of “service” to what we have in the US. As it is with lots of things in Croatia, once you go through the looking glass, there’s no going back. Croatian service: Keeping it real, really real http://zablogreb.likecroatia.hr/?p=10 http://zablogreb.likecroatia.hr/?p=10

alxp 13y ago

> What incentive does a waitress have to give you good service if she's making a standard wage and no tips? Does your boss pay you a few extra dollars if you were extra productive and cheerful today? No? Would that be kind of demeaning, actually? Do you do a good job because it it's what you want to do?

gnosis 13y ago
"Does your boss pay you a few extra dollars if you were extra productive and cheerful today? No? Would that be kind of demeaning, actually?" It may be demeaning to you, as you probably make far more money than a waiter. But waiters in the US typically get paid an atrociously low salary, and make most of their income from tips. "Do you do a good job because it it's what you want to do?" Few people consider waiting tables their dream job. They usually do it because they consider it a temporary job, not a career. Some may take pride in doing an exceptional job, but they're probably the exception rather than the rule.
- dragonwriter 13y ago
  > It may be demeaning to you, as you probably make far more money than a waiter. But waiters in the US typically get paid an atrociously low salary, and make most of their income from tips. Waiters get paid an atrociously low salary because it is anticipated that their real pay will come from tips. This is part of the "tipping culture", not an external factor which justifies tipping culture.
  - gnosis 13y ago
    "Waiters get paid an atrociously low salary because it is anticipated that their real pay will come from tips." I think it's rather that employers aren't willing to pay more, and waiters usually can't afford to turn down work that pays them these salaries, and there usually isn't another alternative that pays any better. Regardless of the reasons for this state of affairs, the fact is that watiers in the US do get paid atrocious salaries and can't afford to look down their noses at "an extra few dollars" in tips. I'm sure plenty of waiters would trade in the tip system for a guaranteed higher salary, but it's usually not up to them to decide.

dragonwriter 13y ago

> What incentive does a waitress have to give you good service if she's making a standard wage and no tips? The same incentive every other worker that gets paid a hourly wage or monthly salary without tips has to do a their job properly.

EpicEng 13y ago
So, in other words, little to no incentive? The prospect of a bigger tip is certainly an incentive. I speak from experience. It's also the reason that many waiters (myself included at one time) will prioritize, say, a group of four adults ordering drinks over a grumpy family with two kids ordering salads and water.
- dragonwriter 13y ago
  > So, in other words, little to no incentive? The depends on how well the employer monitors performance and holds employees accountable. Of course, employers who do bad at this in terms of customer service staff will find their business develops a reputation for poor customer service, and loses out to businesses that do a good job at this, all other things being equal.
Gormo 13y ago
Most people paid hourly wages or monthly salaries aren't doing jobs that are entirely composed of rendering direct personal service to a customer over an extended period of time. Tipping is indeed customary in every service trade that I'm aware of, because it conforms to the reality that the waiter/deliveryman/taxi driver/etc. actually is working, at least in part, directly for the customer.

fizz_and_buzz 13y ago

Haha, I kind agree, but I also lived in the US for a while. I talked to a coworker a while back though, and he came back from a conference in the US and was annoyed that waiters kept asking him if he wanted anything and when he said he didn't they brought him the bill right away. It's pretty common in Germany for example to just sit at the table and talk with your friends, but he felt like as soon as he stopped ordering anything they wanted him out.

aestra 13y ago

This is just a cultural difference. You expect American style service from a different culture with different values and manners. What's "rude" to you is acceptable and even polite there. You will have to learn to deal with this as normal. When I was living in a European country I was told about this in advance from the locals who gave me an orientation. What bothered me most was some of the other Americans I was with complaining about how "rude" all the locals were. They were the ones being rude by expecting the entire world be have the same concept of manners as them. What incentive does a cook have to give you a good meal if she's making a standard wage and no tips? What incentive does a dishwasher have to do a proper job washing your dishes if she's making a standard wage and no tips? What incentive does a fast food employee have to good service if she's making a standard wage and no tips? What incentive does a barista have to good service if she's making a standard wage and no tips? etc...

gnosis 13y ago
"What incentive does a cook have to give you a good meal if she's making a standard wage and no tips? What incentive does a dishwasher have to do a proper job washing your dishes if she's making a standard wage and no tips? What incentive does a fast food employee have to good service if she's making a standard wage and no tips? What incentive does a barista have to good service if she's making a standard wage and no tips?" From what I've heard, in the US it's standard practice to split the tip among the staff in a restaurant. The cook, host/hostess, even the other waiters get their share of a single waiter's tip. I'm not sure about the dishwasher. But it's pretty obvious what incentive the dishwasher has in keeping the dishes clean: if they're not, he/she will get fired.
- RogerL 13y ago
  The article addresses this (splitting). It still doesn't end up equitable, even assuming the server hands over all the cash (ha!).
- aestra 13y ago
  I have a data point of 2. I knew two waitresses. They both took home their tips at the end of the night, without sharing with anyone. One of them was required to only report 15% of her sales to the IRS for taxing, but always took home way way more than that, so she made tons of tax free income. Also the United States is a large place, there is different customs different places. It's pretty obvious what incentive the waitstaff has to provide good service, if they don't, they get fired. Tipping is arbitrary. I tip the person who pours my drink at the bar, but not the person who pour my drink at McDonald's. Oh, by the way, when I was younger and in high school/college I worked three public facing customer service jobs where I didn't earn any tips. I worked my ass off at each job for standard wages. I always provided the best customer service I could. My incentive was I wanted to do my job effectively and not get fired or reprimanded. It is incredibly naive to think that if waitstaff earned a fair wage without tips they would all suddenly stop doing their job. Especially since they already know they are going to get a tip anyways, it is pretty much required to give a tip, no matter how bad the service was!

ThomPete 13y ago

I will definitely take US service over European any day. It is one area where I believe that the europeans have a lot to learn, perhaps with the exception of Italy and London which I find pretty effective.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

euxneks 13y ago

>>> What incentive does a waitress have to give you good service if she's making a standard wage and no tips? I'd think pride in her work? That's pretty shitty if they can treat customers like crap.