11 ms·

Having lived in Japan for the past few years, I'm so over the tipping culture it's pretty hard to stomach when I go back to the States. Besides the issues it ca

by po 13y ago

Having lived in Japan for the past few years, I'm so over the tipping culture it's pretty hard to stomach when I go back to the States. Besides the issues it causes for employers that this article covers, I really dislike the power dynamics that it causes for the customers: but maybe not in the way you would think. While the customer may be financially powerful in the relationship, I feel that tipping culture gives power to the server to withhold good service as a punishment or as an optimization strategy at their own discretion. It causes a server to judge you as soon as you walk through the door... will this person give a good tip? Should I ignore them and focus on this other table? The worst part is that the tip happens at the end of the meal after all of the 'costs' of providing good service are already done. If the patron stiffs the server, then the effort was 'wasted.' It's far better to make an educated guess based on… what? the way they dress? their grammar? the car they pulled in with? It's a terrible system.

guelo 13y ago
Commonly based on race also.
- pierlux 13y ago
  or origins: I'm from Québec (where we usually tip). I am often confused for French (which are known bad tipper). I always make sure to overtip!
mcphilip 13y ago
While I'm sure there are good waiters that do their best to treat all customers equally, I can confirm that their tends to be a snap judgement made about the tipping probability of a customer. In one place that I worked the waitstaff used the euphemism "Canadians" to refer to customers that weren't likely to tip (e.g. "I just got sat with a table of Canadians..."). That being said, I sympathize with waiters and tend to tip relatively well since I know firsthand the pressure of only making $2.15/hr + tips on an unpredictable schedule that ended anywhere from 11:30pm to 2:00am (depending on how long my last table stayed).
- manicgeek 13y ago
  I'm sure that euphemism is based in experience, but as a Canadian, I've found that most of my compatriots (myself included) feel it's only polite to tip at least 20%, and we're VERY IN TO BEING POLITE. :)
  - mcphilip 13y ago
    I'm not sure where the term originated at that restaurant, but it probably had nothing to do with Canadians' behavior since it was in a small Texas town that only saw an actual Canadian every once in a blue moon. :)
    - cantankerous 13y ago
      It may not be meant to make any sense. I worked in retail (probably like most people, ever) and we seemed to have a variety of signal-type words that made no sense to customers...or management. Makes the job more fun.
    - rdouble 13y ago
      Maybe they were from Canadian, TX.
    - pfranz 13y ago
      I'm pretty sure the origin is in irony because if someone overheard you calling them "cheap" or a negative stereotype there would be a problem, but if you we overheard calling them "Canadian" it's a lot more benign. I've heard "Canadian" used when working in restaurants outside of Texas, so I think it's fairly common in the US.
  - notahacker 13y ago
    I've met Canadians that described the income they used to earn from tips in a top Vancouver restaurant as being far more than they could hope to earn in a mid-level professional job.
- samatman 13y ago
  Are you sure they didn't use "Canadians" to refer to black people? Because from my understanding that's much more common.
300bps 13y ago
It's a terrible system I believe in pay for performance in all professions so I certainly would prefer such a system for a hospitality industry. The minimum I've ever given anyone for a tip is 15% and honestly the service has to be terrible for me to give that. If the service is good I give 20% and if the service is remarkable I'll give more. The way I think of it is that the cost of the meal is at least 15% to 20% higher than what is on the menu. If I don't want to pay that, I eat at home. I don't get wanting to pay 15% to 20% more on the menu and then having no ability to give an incentive for people to perform better.
- kevincrane 13y ago
  I think the incentives for doing good work as a server should be the same as they are for every other job: keeping your job. I'd rather the restaurant tell me what I'm going to pay upfront, rather than look at the menu and think "The burger's $7.99, plus 9% for sales tax, plus 15% for tip. If the server is god awful and spits in my food, maybe only 10% for tip".
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
    - markyc 13y ago
      "So your hyperbole is far from reality" I'd love for that to be true :)
    - kevincrane 13y ago
      > Is money that tight? Maybe you should just be eating at home. My point is that I'd rather the menu just said $10 for a burger. I would give them $10, they would give me a burger, and we'd both be happy. > Food tampering is illegal in the entire United States. In some states, food tampering is a Class I Felony. So your hyperbole is far from reality. Yes, that was a hyperbole, you got me. The point for that one was that even when servers give awful service, you're still expected to tip them because that's how they get their money. That basically defeats the whole rhetoric of "tipping incentivizes good performance".
Shivetya 13y ago
it is far worse when restaurants force add it to the bill, let alone the scourge of everything, tip buckets at coffee shops and the like. A few places pool tips so even bad servers can skate
- EpicEng 13y ago
  For large parties it's only fair to add a gratuity. I was stiffed by so many large parties I just stopped taking them if I could. You have some T-ball team and every parent all paying separately, some % don't even pay their bill, the rest tip like crap, the kids make a huge mess, you spend almost your entire shift serving them, and walk with $6.
madebylaw 13y ago
As an American living in Europe for the last year, I have drawn the exact opposite conclusion about tipping culture. Many of the restaurants I have been to (in France, Spain, Italy, Germany, Holland, Belgium) have, by American standards, horrible service. The waitstaff is inattentive or rude. You have to call waiters over constantly to give them your order, ask for another drink, or get the bill. I think that part of this stems from different cultural opinions on service (i.e. it's rude to bring the check preemptively), but some of it is just lack of incentive, I think. What incentive does a waitress have to give you good service if she's making a standard wage and no tips? Especially if the waitress has increased job protection in certain countries (it's harder for an employer to fire people in France than in the US).
- bberrry 13y ago
  To be fair, you get terrible service in all aspects of French, Italian and Spanish society. I can't speak for the others though.
  - kh_hk 13y ago
    It's not terrible service, it's just a welcome hug to foreigners. If you like the place or the food, give a small tip, come back, and you will be befriended by a smile.
- yulaow 13y ago
  That's maybe a culture difference. Here in italy we prefer to not have the waiters constant near to you but to call them only when you need them. They are "allowed" to come near only when they see all the people in a table have finisched their dishs. Also, it's rude if the waiters give_you/ask_you_if_you_want the bill before you ask for that.
- stevoski 13y ago
  I'm quite certain this is a cultural difference. What you find to be rude or inattentive is considered polite in some European countries. For a waiter to be appearing at the table often, unsummoned, is rude in Germany, for example. If you want the waiter, so etiquette says, you'll summon him/her.
izztmzzt 13y ago
Customer services comparisons to Japan always leave the US on the losing side. Attention to the customer is deeply ingrained in their culture.

by po 13y ago

guelo 13y ago

Commonly based on race also.

pierlux 13y ago
or origins: I'm from Québec (where we usually tip). I am often confused for French (which are known bad tipper). I always make sure to overtip!

mcphilip 13y ago

While I'm sure there are good waiters that do their best to treat all customers equally, I can confirm that their tends to be a snap judgement made about the tipping probability of a customer. In one place that I worked the waitstaff used the euphemism "Canadians" to refer to customers that weren't likely to tip (e.g. "I just got sat with a table of Canadians..."). That being said, I sympathize with waiters and tend to tip relatively well since I know firsthand the pressure of only making $2.15/hr + tips on an unpredictable schedule that ended anywhere from 11:30pm to 2:00am (depending on how long my last table stayed).

manicgeek 13y ago
I'm sure that euphemism is based in experience, but as a Canadian, I've found that most of my compatriots (myself included) feel it's only polite to tip at least 20%, and we're VERY IN TO BEING POLITE. :)
- mcphilip 13y ago
  I'm not sure where the term originated at that restaurant, but it probably had nothing to do with Canadians' behavior since it was in a small Texas town that only saw an actual Canadian every once in a blue moon. :)
  - cantankerous 13y ago
    It may not be meant to make any sense. I worked in retail (probably like most people, ever) and we seemed to have a variety of signal-type words that made no sense to customers...or management. Makes the job more fun.
  - rdouble 13y ago
    Maybe they were from Canadian, TX.
  - pfranz 13y ago
    I'm pretty sure the origin is in irony because if someone overheard you calling them "cheap" or a negative stereotype there would be a problem, but if you we overheard calling them "Canadian" it's a lot more benign. I've heard "Canadian" used when working in restaurants outside of Texas, so I think it's fairly common in the US.
- notahacker 13y ago
  I've met Canadians that described the income they used to earn from tips in a top Vancouver restaurant as being far more than they could hope to earn in a mid-level professional job.
samatman 13y ago
Are you sure they didn't use "Canadians" to refer to black people? Because from my understanding that's much more common.

300bps 13y ago

It's a terrible system I believe in pay for performance in all professions so I certainly would prefer such a system for a hospitality industry. The minimum I've ever given anyone for a tip is 15% and honestly the service has to be terrible for me to give that. If the service is good I give 20% and if the service is remarkable I'll give more. The way I think of it is that the cost of the meal is at least 15% to 20% higher than what is on the menu. If I don't want to pay that, I eat at home. I don't get wanting to pay 15% to 20% more on the menu and then having no ability to give an incentive for people to perform better.

kevincrane 13y ago
I think the incentives for doing good work as a server should be the same as they are for every other job: keeping your job. I'd rather the restaurant tell me what I'm going to pay upfront, rather than look at the menu and think "The burger's $7.99, plus 9% for sales tax, plus 15% for tip. If the server is god awful and spits in my food, maybe only 10% for tip".
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
  - markyc 13y ago
    "So your hyperbole is far from reality" I'd love for that to be true :)
  - kevincrane 13y ago
    > Is money that tight? Maybe you should just be eating at home. My point is that I'd rather the menu just said $10 for a burger. I would give them $10, they would give me a burger, and we'd both be happy. > Food tampering is illegal in the entire United States. In some states, food tampering is a Class I Felony. So your hyperbole is far from reality. Yes, that was a hyperbole, you got me. The point for that one was that even when servers give awful service, you're still expected to tip them because that's how they get their money. That basically defeats the whole rhetoric of "tipping incentivizes good performance".

Shivetya 13y ago

it is far worse when restaurants force add it to the bill, let alone the scourge of everything, tip buckets at coffee shops and the like. A few places pool tips so even bad servers can skate

EpicEng 13y ago
For large parties it's only fair to add a gratuity. I was stiffed by so many large parties I just stopped taking them if I could. You have some T-ball team and every parent all paying separately, some % don't even pay their bill, the rest tip like crap, the kids make a huge mess, you spend almost your entire shift serving them, and walk with $6.

madebylaw 13y ago

As an American living in Europe for the last year, I have drawn the exact opposite conclusion about tipping culture. Many of the restaurants I have been to (in France, Spain, Italy, Germany, Holland, Belgium) have, by American standards, horrible service. The waitstaff is inattentive or rude. You have to call waiters over constantly to give them your order, ask for another drink, or get the bill. I think that part of this stems from different cultural opinions on service (i.e. it's rude to bring the check preemptively), but some of it is just lack of incentive, I think. What incentive does a waitress have to give you good service if she's making a standard wage and no tips? Especially if the waitress has increased job protection in certain countries (it's harder for an employer to fire people in France than in the US).

bberrry 13y ago
To be fair, you get terrible service in all aspects of French, Italian and Spanish society. I can't speak for the others though.
- kh_hk 13y ago
  It's not terrible service, it's just a welcome hug to foreigners. If you like the place or the food, give a small tip, come back, and you will be befriended by a smile.
yulaow 13y ago
That's maybe a culture difference. Here in italy we prefer to not have the waiters constant near to you but to call them only when you need them. They are "allowed" to come near only when they see all the people in a table have finisched their dishs. Also, it's rude if the waiters give_you/ask_you_if_you_want the bill before you ask for that.
stevoski 13y ago
I'm quite certain this is a cultural difference. What you find to be rude or inattentive is considered polite in some European countries. For a waiter to be appearing at the table often, unsummoned, is rude in Germany, for example. If you want the waiter, so etiquette says, you'll summon him/her.

izztmzzt 13y ago

Customer services comparisons to Japan always leave the US on the losing side. Attention to the customer is deeply ingrained in their culture.