3 ms·

I wish people would recognize their own bullshit from time to time and just titled those posts "books I enjoyed", otherwise it turns out more into "every gradua

by stiff 13y ago

I wish people would recognize their own bullshit from time to time and just titled those posts "books I enjoyed", otherwise it turns out more into "every graduate student should read what I had read" or "books I would like people to think I read so I appear smart", e.g. the frequency with which each book appears in lists like this is greatly different from the frequency each book is actually read. On a more technical note, "Compilers" is a great book I enjoyed quite a bit, but it hardly is a great reference for compilers, it isn't even a very good textbook those days, it is very specialized in parsing and lexing and isn't very well balanced, there is much less about backend/runtime/optimization stuff which is the bigger part of compiler-writing those days, and the whole book is far, far removed from practice, it is perfectly possible to read it cover to cover and still have very little idea about how to write an actual compiler. There are much better books those days both if you want to simply write your own compiler (books by Appel, Cooper/Torczon, Grune) or have a reference of the state of the art in compilers (famous book by Muchnick). I would say "Compilers" is more similar to a monograph in specialized topics than to a textbook or reference book.

yaddayadda 13y ago
mattmight is a University professor, and presumably advises graduate students in his department. So he's in a slightly different role than your average joe programmer or even rock star computer scientist at the latest startup of Y-combinator fame. In my masters program, there were about 16 books that I saw in every single one of our professors' offices. Over my coursework there, I had to buy about a dozen of them for specific courses. Before graduation I bought the others. While I haven't read every single one of them from cover to cover, I have extensively referenced every one of them. His list should serve the same purpose for the audiences he's identified.
- adamnemecek 13y ago
  Care to share the list? I think that I can guess what might be on it, but I'm still curious.
- stiff 13y ago
  Even in this position, or maybe especially in this position, I think it is downright harmful to suggest that there are books every student should read, like there is some canonical set of books that will make a great researcher of you and the world would become a better place if everyone would read the same set. I shared this view for a good while and I deeply regret it, you should instead focus on your problem domain and on problem solving, choose your lectures independently, don't get too bound or too concerned about books in general, and stay deeply critical of anything you read - e.g. you should deliberately look for holes even in the most praised works instead of admiring them blindly. That's the way you can progress and not just keep copying what others have done. And it is very good that not everyone has to and not everyone does read the same books. In the end it is not about the fucking books anyway.
  - Retric 13y ago
    He did not give a list of books for everyone to read just suggesting 4 books to be used as references for graduate level writing which I find hard to argue with. Along with one for presentations and persuasion which you are going to do so I doin't think there is as much to argue with as you might think.
- seanmcdirmid 13y ago
  I got my PhD at that same university in that same field (PL, but before Might's time as a professor there), and I didn't read any of those books (I read TAPL afterwards). My adviser tried to get me to read one of the writing style books, but I seemed to have figured it out by myself :) People are diverse. There are no must have books but there are many books appropriate for your context (writing your first paper, need help with style? Read that book, or let your adviser beat it into you). It is OK to provide a list of things nice to read, even better if you list the demand context where the book will be useful. But to use an absolute...that could confuse incoming grad students.
- mathattack 13y ago
  Can you name the 16?
WalterBright 13y ago
> it is perfectly possible to read it cover to cover and still have very little idea about how to write an actual compiler. I learned how compilers worked by studying a Pascal compiler written in BASIC that was published by BYTE back in the 70's. I thought the way it worked was a revelation, and completely magical. Compiler books in general, however, tend to omit the messy details one has to deal with in building a production quality compiler.
- DanBC 13y ago
  I've heard several people say good things about BYTE. It's a shame there's nothing similar today. (Yet another thing for my list of what to do when I have lots of money). The Pascal compiler in BASIC was "Tiny Pascal"? Someone might have some scans of the issues here (http://atariage.com/forums/topic/167235-byte-magazine/page__st__375 http://atariage.com/forums/topic/167235-byte-magazine/page__...) Here's a PDF about TinyPascal (http://www.colorcomputerarchive.com/coco/Documents/Books/Pascal%20(1980)(Tab%20Books).pdf http://www.colorcomputerarchive.com/coco/Documents/Books/Pas...) I find lots of links talking about it, but without downloads eg (http://www.vintage-computer.com/byte.shtml http://www.vintage-computer.com/byte.shtml) Here's some discussion of something called "Augusta" which is a 'tiny Ada'. (http://computer-programming-forum.com/44-ada/240dcc3af63e1faa.htm http://computer-programming-forum.com/44-ada/240dcc3af63e1fa...)
  - WalterBright 13y ago
    Yes, it was Tiny Pascal. I still probably have the issue buried in the garage somewhere. I'm also partial to Creative Computing in the 1970's. It was full of fun artwork and silly games you could type in and run, and unabashedly optimistic editorial content. It's forgotten now, but it was very influential for me.
  - e12e 13y ago
    On a related note, I came across: "Source Text of Compilers": http://exmortis.narod.ru/src_compilers_eng.html http://exmortis.narod.ru/src_compilers_eng.html Does not have Tiny Pascal - but appears to have a few other variants.
- 13y ago
incision 13y ago
I feel like you're reading a bit much into a submission title. The page isn't titled that way and doesn't read in a way that suggests it. I think I get where you're coming from though. I often wonder how many people have actually read the typical list of "classics" and "must haves" that are continually recommended without context, reasoning or even a gist.
- seanmcdirmid 13y ago
  You must be using Chrome. The submission title is the HTML title of the page.
alex_c 13y ago
No one ever reads blog posts titled "Decent books worth reading for some people" or "Mildly useful advice that applies in certain situations". The format of the web and sites like HN and Reddit almost forces hyperbole.
gambogi 13y ago
While this HN post is certainly guilty of the puffery you describe, the actual site is just a collection of resources this professor thinks are useful for various categories of grad students.

by stiff 13y ago

yaddayadda 13y ago

mattmight is a University professor, and presumably advises graduate students in his department. So he's in a slightly different role than your average joe programmer or even rock star computer scientist at the latest startup of Y-combinator fame. In my masters program, there were about 16 books that I saw in every single one of our professors' offices. Over my coursework there, I had to buy about a dozen of them for specific courses. Before graduation I bought the others. While I haven't read every single one of them from cover to cover, I have extensively referenced every one of them. His list should serve the same purpose for the audiences he's identified.

adamnemecek 13y ago
Care to share the list? I think that I can guess what might be on it, but I'm still curious.
stiff 13y ago
Even in this position, or maybe especially in this position, I think it is downright harmful to suggest that there are books every student should read, like there is some canonical set of books that will make a great researcher of you and the world would become a better place if everyone would read the same set. I shared this view for a good while and I deeply regret it, you should instead focus on your problem domain and on problem solving, choose your lectures independently, don't get too bound or too concerned about books in general, and stay deeply critical of anything you read - e.g. you should deliberately look for holes even in the most praised works instead of admiring them blindly. That's the way you can progress and not just keep copying what others have done. And it is very good that not everyone has to and not everyone does read the same books. In the end it is not about the fucking books anyway.
- Retric 13y ago
  He did not give a list of books for everyone to read just suggesting 4 books to be used as references for graduate level writing which I find hard to argue with. Along with one for presentations and persuasion which you are going to do so I doin't think there is as much to argue with as you might think.
seanmcdirmid 13y ago
I got my PhD at that same university in that same field (PL, but before Might's time as a professor there), and I didn't read any of those books (I read TAPL afterwards). My adviser tried to get me to read one of the writing style books, but I seemed to have figured it out by myself :) People are diverse. There are no must have books but there are many books appropriate for your context (writing your first paper, need help with style? Read that book, or let your adviser beat it into you). It is OK to provide a list of things nice to read, even better if you list the demand context where the book will be useful. But to use an absolute...that could confuse incoming grad students.
mathattack 13y ago
Can you name the 16?

WalterBright 13y ago

> it is perfectly possible to read it cover to cover and still have very little idea about how to write an actual compiler. I learned how compilers worked by studying a Pascal compiler written in BASIC that was published by BYTE back in the 70's. I thought the way it worked was a revelation, and completely magical. Compiler books in general, however, tend to omit the messy details one has to deal with in building a production quality compiler.

DanBC 13y ago
I've heard several people say good things about BYTE. It's a shame there's nothing similar today. (Yet another thing for my list of what to do when I have lots of money). The Pascal compiler in BASIC was "Tiny Pascal"? Someone might have some scans of the issues here (http://atariage.com/forums/topic/167235-byte-magazine/page__st__375 http://atariage.com/forums/topic/167235-byte-magazine/page__...) Here's a PDF about TinyPascal (http://www.colorcomputerarchive.com/coco/Documents/Books/Pascal%20(1980)(Tab%20Books).pdf http://www.colorcomputerarchive.com/coco/Documents/Books/Pas...) I find lots of links talking about it, but without downloads eg (http://www.vintage-computer.com/byte.shtml http://www.vintage-computer.com/byte.shtml) Here's some discussion of something called "Augusta" which is a 'tiny Ada'. (http://computer-programming-forum.com/44-ada/240dcc3af63e1faa.htm http://computer-programming-forum.com/44-ada/240dcc3af63e1fa...)
- WalterBright 13y ago
  Yes, it was Tiny Pascal. I still probably have the issue buried in the garage somewhere. I'm also partial to Creative Computing in the 1970's. It was full of fun artwork and silly games you could type in and run, and unabashedly optimistic editorial content. It's forgotten now, but it was very influential for me.
- e12e 13y ago
  On a related note, I came across: "Source Text of Compilers": http://exmortis.narod.ru/src_compilers_eng.html http://exmortis.narod.ru/src_compilers_eng.html Does not have Tiny Pascal - but appears to have a few other variants.
13y ago

incision 13y ago

I feel like you're reading a bit much into a submission title. The page isn't titled that way and doesn't read in a way that suggests it. I think I get where you're coming from though. I often wonder how many people have actually read the typical list of "classics" and "must haves" that are continually recommended without context, reasoning or even a gist.

seanmcdirmid 13y ago
You must be using Chrome. The submission title is the HTML title of the page.

alex_c 13y ago

No one ever reads blog posts titled "Decent books worth reading for some people" or "Mildly useful advice that applies in certain situations". The format of the web and sites like HN and Reddit almost forces hyperbole.

gambogi 13y ago

While this HN post is certainly guilty of the puffery you describe, the actual site is just a collection of resources this professor thinks are useful for various categories of grad students.